Udhr bi Al-Jahl for kufr in the shahada what he denies and what he confirms it is a kufr bida where the first shart of the shahadah ie el ilm(knowledge the negation of jahl) is denied, learn the shurut and erkan of the shahada. "So know,that there is no إِلَٰهَ except Allah.."47 :19 but not only el ilm which is connected with each rukn(kufr bi taghut and iman in Allah) and shart. Udhr bi Al-Jahl in the shahada he denies other shart to ; jeqin / certanety, ihlas the negation of schirk, al qabul /acceptance. this bida is kufr at the highest level People of Udhr bi Al-Jahl in the shahada they denie directly these two conditions whether they wanted it or not; (1)ihlas the negation of schirk, and the shart of (2)Ilm the opposite of jahl. This bida is kufr at the highest level and it is so stupid that you see even the followers of that aqeedah do not follow to the end what they call, so most of them do not excus the juhal from the jahud, Nasara, the followers of false "prophets" like Gulam, Musajleme(if they worshiped them it would be even worse in Kufr), the juhal of extreme batinis, the juhal of the shia who worship Zuljana the horse of Husejn, Sufis who ascribe "divinity" to themselves... From the strange and absurd things of this people is that they do not justify(what is correct) those who accept the 2 kufar Musaylem and Ghulam as "messengers", but they justify(in theory) with jehl those who worship them from the juhal.
Mashallah I like how you tried to make this topic close and you highlighted that these topics needed series and very huge study and many topics related and this is the most important. The video for me can be a start of a videos talking about issues around this topic and things that can come in mind about them specially for people who know the Shubuhat شبهات the unclear matters related to them and who have experiences about them and people related to them and you cleared many things and referred to many things and even while you talking many things and evidences and discussions came to my mind because this topic is very very sensitive and dangerous and really needs someone who is well grounded in it and has no illusion of knowledge. Many individuals sadly, they fall in the trap of Takfeer and Tabdee specifically in very complex and complicated situations and scenarios on specific individuals or groups or whoever and this is really something in today’s world we saw it many in last many years and has some roots in history of who did the same As you already explained there is general judgement and there is judgement in specific individual and these are completely two different situations and if you don’t know how you differentiate then you may read some texts in scholars books or even in Quran and Sunnah and you think it means something when it is completely a different thing and needs someone who knows what really it is I saw many people of do takfeer who don’t know about this and they use texts while not understanding if this text is general judgement حكم عام or individual judgment حكم معين ( individual takfeer تكفيير المعين ) so this can shift the whole picture! So this is how dangerous it is and this is just example, you already talked about giving excuses of ignorance and there are a lot of things related to this and you mentioned many things so well grounded person in knowledge of these matters must know “ conditions of takfeer and what stops or holds the takfeer شروط وموانع " and not only this and he needs and this extremely important to know " how to apply it تحقيق المناط " because knowing the person in reality and his reality is not an easy thing and needs clarity and fear of Allah when you apply it and no one can do it except who knows for certain and has enough certain knowledge of what to establish and as someone from Arabia and specifically from Hail حائل and you mentioned very important example the imams of the dawah of najd ائمة الدعوة النجديه, yes we will find many good theoretically well grounded knowledge that follow the salaf but we may find in their application of this knowledge differences on if what they did is right or wrong and even some knowledge we may find who will disagree or agree on something they said and there are knowledge in time of salaf or before the imams of najd who said something that may refute this so no one is holy and may Allah have mercy on all Muslims and forgive their mistakes if they were on what we think it is and there are many people who don’t understand that even in time of Shiekh Mohammed ibn abd alwahab who disagrees with him and many other scholars so I really think we need to be very careful of reading history of only one side story of one group that took throne in specific time and not hearing about the whole Muslim situations and positions disregarding who was far or close to the truth but just to tell there is more to the picture that makes us not over praise specific characters because some people from specific group of one land are the one who are having more authority in the land or close to people of authority more than other people who are from the land and may have rooted families to tribes that was the leadings in specific time so we need to not fall in the trap of conflicts that happened in specific place and time and not letting them confuse us or not let us read the history with really not cancelling some because the satisfaction of the other, justice is very important and sometimes not everything is clear so we need always to go back to the salaf and scholars before because they are so clear and they already clarify all what we need! So back to the point that it is not a must that someone is good in knowledge needs to be good in application of knowledge, please this is very important in applying takfeer or tabdee I really liked how you explained many things like the matters which clear obvious ظاهره جليه and matters which hidden and more detailed الخفيه الدقيق which is most not clear to layman Muslim and many things you talked and I do agree that the series that you referred and what will come are very important to talk about more things related because there are situations that the human can not be excuses like some from the people of Fatrah for example اهل الفتره I mean there will not considered people of test in life after even if they was labelled in this life as original kafeer and the judgements of kufur been established on him in life for example if he denies The existence of Allah when the signs of universe…etc all over because they are in the position of establishing the argument قيام الحجه so I believe more to this topic will clear many many things related or comes to minds Jazak Allah Khiar brother and if I say something bad from me too and if correct from Allah ❤️ bless you ❤️🌹
barakallaahu feek. Please be specific if you disagree with what has been written by m. bin abdul-wahhaab. Please be careful to distinguish between the primary sources of the shaykh as opposed to what is said by those who claim to be followers of the shaykh.
Of course, I mentioned the issue is mostly in the ones that came after. His works in general aren’t problematic although maybe some details could be tweaked to make sure people don’t get the wrong understanding such as this video I addressed ruclips.net/video/tv8pRSjR3vI/видео.htmlsi=kD4P5Nh-isX6QzGu
It's sad that the most vocal proponents of Ibn Taymiyyah are those that do his teachings a disservice by misquoting and picking and choosing parts of his teachings to fit their own non-Ibn Taymiyyite way, especially politically, and they are a far cry from the erudition of Ibn Taymiyyah, so they reduce his teachings to a very narrow implementation that is not what Ibn Taymiyyah preached.
1. You mention the bid'ah of splitting ahkaam into usool and furoo'. This is bid'ah, no doubt. But splitting issues into مسائل ظاهرة and مسائل خفية, is not. As Imam al-Shafi'i said, العلم علمان, and he splits it into general knowledge (all Muslims must know) and specific knowledge (scholars only), and he mentions that there is no excuse to be ignorant of the first type. He gives examples such as the five prayers being compulsory. He doesn't even mention Tawheed as that's an even more obvious level of knowledge, i.e. Asl ad-din / shahadatayn and without it one has yet to enter Islam.
2. Regarding the ayah: { وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِینَ حَتَّىٰ نَبۡعَثَ رَسُولࣰا } [Surah Al-Isrāʾ: 15] This is not a proof that those that do istigaathah bil-mayyit are excused until iqamah al-hujjah: 1. A Prophet has been sent. الرسول قد بُعث 2. It is talking about عذاب not اسماء. 3. Allah never said those that are ignorant are within Islam until they receive the hujjah, he says the opposite, for example: { وَإِنۡ أَحَدࣱ مِّنَ ٱلۡمُشۡرِكِینَ ٱسۡتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرۡهُ حَتَّىٰ یَسۡمَعَ كَلَـٰمَ ٱللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبۡلِغۡهُ مَأۡمَنَهُۥۚ ذَ ٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمۡ قَوۡمࣱ لَّا یَعۡلَمُونَ } [Surah At-Tawbah: 6] Allah calls them مشركين BEFORE they hear the Quran. Many verses similar to this, see Surah al-Bayinnah.
3. The next verse you mention: { وَأُوحِیَ إِلَیَّ هَـٰذَا ٱلۡقُرۡءَانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِۦ وَمَنۢ بَلَغَۚ } [Surah Al-Anʿām: 19] Is one of the proofs used by the scholars - see early fiqh books on the issue of الحجة الرسالية - that the Quran reaching a people removes the excuse of them being ignorant about clear matters. For example, if you look up the issue of حد الزاني in early fiqh books, they discuss the issue of the man who commits zina with his wife's jaariyah. They say the حد is applied and he is not excuse with ignorance as it is an known issue (مسائل ظاهرة). Now imagine شرك.
4. The next verse, again, is also talking about punishment in the akhirah, clearly. Does it make sense for them to argue with Allah in the dunya about why they didn't obey? 4. { رُّسُلࣰا مُّبَشِّرِینَ وَمُنذِرِینَ لِئَلَّا یَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ حُجَّةُۢ بَعۡدَ ٱلرُّسُلِۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِیزًا حَكِیمࣰا } [Surah An-Nisāʾ: 165] 5. All of these ayaat are talking about ahl al-fatra, it's something nobody denies. The next verse you brought from Surah al-Mulk is clear talking about the akhirah, a few verses earlier it mentions the context as hellfire: { وَلِلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ بِرَبِّهِمۡ عَذَابُ جَهَنَّمَۖ وَبِئۡسَ ٱلۡمَصِیرُ } [Surah Al-Mulk: 6] { قَالُوا۟ بَلَىٰ قَدۡ جَاۤءَنَا نَذِیرࣱ فَكَذَّبۡنَا وَقُلۡنَا مَا نَزَّلَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَیۡءٍ إِنۡ أَنتُمۡ إِلَّا فِی ضَلَـٰلࣲ كَبِیرࣲ } [Surah Al-Mulk: 9]
6. The hadith you then brought also proves that buloogh al-hujjah removes any excuse of ignorance even for akhirah, never mind the labels in dunya. 7. You then mention ahl al-fatra. If somebody claims to be مسلم but the Qur'an has not reached them, and they are doing استغاثة then they are ahl al-fatra, there is no issue. Ahl al-fatra are not called مسلمين في الدنيا.
8. The hadith of the man who asked his children. Again, this is to do with akhirah, it has nothing to do with his label in the dunya. The Prophet told Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas to recite the shahada when he made an oath on al-laat, and he rejected the claim of al-'Abbas that he was Muslim when his apparent did not show so. None of the salaf said the hadith you mentioned is a proof that استغاثة بالميت and similar acts are excused in the dunya. Also, the person didn't question Allah's ability in the way you described. The scholars said he was ignorant of Allah's ability. Questioning it means he already knew it, i.e. the message reached him. In that case why would he be excused? As Ibn Taymiyyah says in the quote you brought, he was ignorant of it, and Allah forgives him in the akhirah.
Akhi when you mention “Salafis” who are you referring too? Because I’m Salafi and I agree with all your points regarding hujjah before labelling someone a kaffir even in matters of Tawheed. Those takfiris are NOT salafis akhi.
How can you claim to be Salafi yet require iqamah al-hujjah before takfier for issues or Tawheed? It isn't the position of the major Salafi scholars. Shaykh Ibn Baz, who is the most prominent Salafi scholar of this era says it is completely wrong to believe in iqamah al-hujjah before takfier for issues of Tawheed, and he says whoever believes such a thing is completely misguided, and that this belief is a mukaffir itself. Also, regarding the term takfiri, the majority of scholars have said this term is incorrect to begin with. The scholars that do use it (Salah al-Luhaydan and Salah al-Fawzan) have both said it refers to somebody who makes takfier on somebody who has not commited an act that is a mukaffir to begin with. Are you one of those salafis that rejects the major Salafi scholars when it comes to takfier and chooses to follow the mistakes of lesser scholars?
@@BanuMudarfor every claim you made provide the evidence. People tend to mix general and specific rulings. Quote me their fatawa on these matters and let’s see if you understood them, or I am misunderstanding them.
@@DaudBurke Shaykh Abd Al-Aziz Bin Muhammad Aal Abd Al-Latif said: If the difference between Takfir Al-Mutlaq [General Takfir] and Takfir Al-Mu'āyyin [specific Takfir] becomes clear to us, we will realize the error of two groups of people. There is a group of people who went to extremes, declaring a specific takfir generally, without considering the conditions and prerequisites, and another group refrained from takfir of the specific in general, so the door to apostasy was closed. 📓-[نواقض الإيمان القوليه والعملية ٥٤].
Udhr bi Al-Jahl for kufr in the shahada what he denies and what he confirms it is a kufr bida where the first shart of the shahadah ie el ilm(knowledge the negation of jahl) is denied, learn the shurut and erkan of the shahada. "So know,that there is no إِلَٰهَ except Allah.."47 :19
but not only el ilm which is connected with each rukn(kufr bi taghut and iman in Allah) and shart. Udhr bi Al-Jahl in the shahada he denies other shart to ; jeqin / certanety, ihlas the negation of schirk, al qabul /acceptance. this bida is kufr at the highest level
People of Udhr bi Al-Jahl in the shahada they denie directly these two conditions whether they wanted it or not; (1)ihlas the negation of schirk, and the shart of (2)Ilm the opposite of jahl. This bida is kufr at the highest level and it is so stupid that you see even the followers of that aqeedah do not follow to the end what they call, so most of them do not excus the juhal from the jahud, Nasara, the followers of false "prophets" like Gulam, Musajleme(if they worshiped them it would be even worse in Kufr), the juhal of extreme batinis, the juhal of the shia who worship Zuljana the horse of Husejn, Sufis who ascribe "divinity" to themselves...
From the strange and absurd things of this people is that they do not justify(what is correct) those who accept the 2 kufar Musaylem and Ghulam as "messengers", but they justify(in theory) with jehl those who worship them from the juhal.
Mashallah I like how you tried to make this topic close and you highlighted that these topics needed series and very huge study and many topics related and this is the most important. The video for me can be a start of a videos talking about issues around this topic and things that can come in mind about them specially for people who know the Shubuhat شبهات the unclear matters related to them and who have experiences about them and people related to them and you cleared many things and referred to many things and even while you talking many things and evidences and discussions came to my mind because this topic is very very sensitive and dangerous and really needs someone who is well grounded in it and has no illusion of knowledge.
Many individuals sadly, they fall in the trap of Takfeer and Tabdee specifically in very complex and complicated situations and scenarios on specific individuals or groups or whoever and this is really something in today’s world we saw it many in last many years and has some roots in history of who did the same
As you already explained there is general judgement and there is judgement in specific individual and these are completely two different situations and if you don’t know how you differentiate then you may read some texts in scholars books or even in Quran and Sunnah and you think it means something when it is completely a different thing and needs someone who knows what really it is
I saw many people of do takfeer who don’t know about this and they use texts while not understanding if this text is general judgement حكم عام or individual judgment حكم معين ( individual takfeer تكفيير المعين ) so this can shift the whole picture! So this is how dangerous it is and this is just example, you already talked about giving excuses of ignorance and there are a lot of things related to this and you mentioned many things so well grounded person in knowledge of these matters must know “ conditions of takfeer and what stops or holds the takfeer شروط وموانع " and not only this and he needs and this extremely important to know " how to apply it تحقيق المناط " because knowing the person in reality and his reality is not an easy thing and needs clarity and fear of Allah when you apply it and no one can do it except who knows for certain and has enough certain knowledge of what to establish and as someone from Arabia and specifically from Hail حائل and you mentioned very important example the imams of the dawah of najd ائمة الدعوة النجديه, yes we will find many good theoretically well grounded knowledge that follow the salaf but we may find in their application of this knowledge differences on if what they did is right or wrong and even some knowledge we may find who will disagree or agree on something they said and there are knowledge in time of salaf or before the imams of najd who said something that may refute this so no one is holy and may Allah have mercy on all Muslims and forgive their mistakes if they were on what we think it is and there are many people who don’t understand that even in time of Shiekh Mohammed ibn abd alwahab who disagrees with him and many other scholars so I really think we need to be very careful of reading history of only one side story of one group that took throne in specific time and not hearing about the whole Muslim situations and positions disregarding who was far or close to the truth but just to tell there is more to the picture that makes us not over praise specific characters because some people from specific group of one land are the one who are having more authority in the land or close to people of authority more than other people who are from the land and may have rooted families to tribes that was the leadings in specific time so we need to not fall in the trap of conflicts that happened in specific place and time and not letting them confuse us or not let us read the history with really not cancelling some because the satisfaction of the other, justice is very important and sometimes not everything is clear so we need always to go back to the salaf and scholars before because they are so clear and they already clarify all what we need! So back to the point that it is not a must that someone is good in knowledge needs to be good in application of knowledge, please this is very important in applying takfeer or tabdee
I really liked how you explained many things like the matters which clear obvious ظاهره جليه and matters which hidden and more detailed الخفيه الدقيق which is most not clear to layman Muslim and many things you talked and I do agree that the series that you referred and what will come are very important to talk about more things related because there are situations that the human can not be excuses like some from the people of Fatrah for example اهل الفتره I mean there will not considered people of test in life after even if they was labelled in this life as original kafeer and the judgements of kufur been established on him in life for example if he denies The existence of Allah when the signs of universe…etc all over because they are in the position of establishing the argument قيام الحجه so I believe more to this topic will clear many many things related or comes to minds
Jazak Allah Khiar brother and if I say something bad from me too and if correct from Allah ❤️ bless you ❤️🌹
ماشاء الله ❤
barakallaahu feek. Please be specific if you disagree with what has been written by m. bin abdul-wahhaab. Please be careful to distinguish between the primary sources of the shaykh as opposed to what is said by those who claim to be followers of the shaykh.
Of course, I mentioned the issue is mostly in the ones that came after. His works in general aren’t problematic although maybe some details could be tweaked to make sure people don’t get the wrong understanding such as this video I addressed
ruclips.net/video/tv8pRSjR3vI/видео.htmlsi=kD4P5Nh-isX6QzGu
It's sad that the most vocal proponents of Ibn Taymiyyah are those that do his teachings a disservice by misquoting and picking and choosing parts of his teachings to fit their own non-Ibn Taymiyyite way, especially politically, and they are a far cry from the erudition of Ibn Taymiyyah, so they reduce his teachings to a very narrow implementation that is not what Ibn Taymiyyah preached.
Could you create a mini curriculum for what one needs to know before entering Al Azhar in the Islamic sciences?
1. You mention the bid'ah of splitting ahkaam into usool and furoo'. This is bid'ah, no doubt. But splitting issues into مسائل ظاهرة and مسائل خفية, is not. As Imam al-Shafi'i said, العلم علمان, and he splits it into general knowledge (all Muslims must know) and specific knowledge (scholars only), and he mentions that there is no excuse to be ignorant of the first type. He gives examples such as the five prayers being compulsory. He doesn't even mention Tawheed as that's an even more obvious level of knowledge, i.e. Asl ad-din / shahadatayn and without it one has yet to enter Islam.
2. Regarding the ayah:
{ وَمَا كُنَّا مُعَذِّبِینَ حَتَّىٰ نَبۡعَثَ رَسُولࣰا }
[Surah Al-Isrāʾ: 15]
This is not a proof that those that do istigaathah bil-mayyit are excused until iqamah al-hujjah:
1. A Prophet has been sent. الرسول قد بُعث
2. It is talking about عذاب not اسماء.
3. Allah never said those that are ignorant are within Islam until they receive the hujjah, he says the opposite, for example:
{ وَإِنۡ أَحَدࣱ مِّنَ ٱلۡمُشۡرِكِینَ ٱسۡتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرۡهُ حَتَّىٰ یَسۡمَعَ كَلَـٰمَ ٱللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبۡلِغۡهُ مَأۡمَنَهُۥۚ ذَ ٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمۡ قَوۡمࣱ لَّا یَعۡلَمُونَ }
[Surah At-Tawbah: 6]
Allah calls them مشركين BEFORE they hear the Quran. Many verses similar to this, see Surah al-Bayinnah.
3. The next verse you mention:
{ وَأُوحِیَ إِلَیَّ هَـٰذَا ٱلۡقُرۡءَانُ لِأُنذِرَكُم بِهِۦ وَمَنۢ بَلَغَۚ }
[Surah Al-Anʿām: 19]
Is one of the proofs used by the scholars - see early fiqh books on the issue of الحجة الرسالية - that the Quran reaching a people removes the excuse of them being ignorant about clear matters. For example, if you look up the issue of حد الزاني in early fiqh books, they discuss the issue of the man who commits zina with his wife's jaariyah. They say the حد is applied and he is not excuse with ignorance as it is an known issue (مسائل ظاهرة). Now imagine شرك.
4. The next verse, again, is also talking about punishment in the akhirah, clearly. Does it make sense for them to argue with Allah in the dunya about why they didn't obey?
4. { رُّسُلࣰا مُّبَشِّرِینَ وَمُنذِرِینَ لِئَلَّا یَكُونَ لِلنَّاسِ عَلَى ٱللَّهِ حُجَّةُۢ بَعۡدَ ٱلرُّسُلِۚ وَكَانَ ٱللَّهُ عَزِیزًا حَكِیمࣰا }
[Surah An-Nisāʾ: 165]
5. All of these ayaat are talking about ahl al-fatra, it's something nobody denies. The next verse you brought from Surah al-Mulk is clear talking about the akhirah, a few verses earlier it mentions the context as hellfire:
{ وَلِلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ بِرَبِّهِمۡ عَذَابُ جَهَنَّمَۖ وَبِئۡسَ ٱلۡمَصِیرُ }
[Surah Al-Mulk: 6]
{ قَالُوا۟ بَلَىٰ قَدۡ جَاۤءَنَا نَذِیرࣱ فَكَذَّبۡنَا وَقُلۡنَا مَا نَزَّلَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَیۡءٍ إِنۡ أَنتُمۡ إِلَّا فِی ضَلَـٰلࣲ كَبِیرࣲ }
[Surah Al-Mulk: 9]
6. The hadith you then brought also proves that buloogh al-hujjah removes any excuse of ignorance even for akhirah, never mind the labels in dunya.
7. You then mention ahl al-fatra. If somebody claims to be مسلم but the Qur'an has not reached them, and they are doing استغاثة then they are ahl al-fatra, there is no issue. Ahl al-fatra are not called مسلمين في الدنيا.
8. The hadith of the man who asked his children. Again, this is to do with akhirah, it has nothing to do with his label in the dunya. The Prophet told Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas to recite the shahada when he made an oath on al-laat, and he rejected the claim of al-'Abbas that he was Muslim when his apparent did not show so. None of the salaf said the hadith you mentioned is a proof that استغاثة بالميت and similar acts are excused in the dunya.
Also, the person didn't question Allah's ability in the way you described. The scholars said he was ignorant of Allah's ability. Questioning it means he already knew it, i.e. the message reached him. In that case why would he be excused? As Ibn Taymiyyah says in the quote you brought, he was ignorant of it, and Allah forgives him in the akhirah.
Akhi when you mention “Salafis” who are you referring too? Because I’m Salafi and I agree with all your points regarding hujjah before labelling someone a kaffir even in matters of Tawheed. Those takfiris are NOT salafis akhi.
How can you claim to be Salafi yet require iqamah al-hujjah before takfier for issues or Tawheed? It isn't the position of the major Salafi scholars. Shaykh Ibn Baz, who is the most prominent Salafi scholar of this era says it is completely wrong to believe in iqamah al-hujjah before takfier for issues of Tawheed, and he says whoever believes such a thing is completely misguided, and that this belief is a mukaffir itself.
Also, regarding the term takfiri, the majority of scholars have said this term is incorrect to begin with. The scholars that do use it (Salah al-Luhaydan and Salah al-Fawzan) have both said it refers to somebody who makes takfier on somebody who has not commited an act that is a mukaffir to begin with.
Are you one of those salafis that rejects the major Salafi scholars when it comes to takfier and chooses to follow the mistakes of lesser scholars?
@@BanuMudarcan you provide the statements from Sheikh Ibn Baz that says someone who establishes hujjah before making takfir is severely misguided?
@@BanuMudarfor every claim you made provide the evidence. People tend to mix general and specific rulings. Quote me their fatawa on these matters and let’s see if you understood them, or I am misunderstanding them.
Yea, you see what I mean ^^^ many that claim the name differ in this regard.
@@DaudBurke Shaykh Abd Al-Aziz Bin Muhammad Aal Abd Al-Latif said:
If the difference between Takfir Al-Mutlaq [General Takfir] and Takfir Al-Mu'āyyin [specific Takfir] becomes clear to us, we will realize the error of two groups of people.
There is a group of people who went to extremes, declaring a specific takfir generally, without considering the conditions and prerequisites, and another group refrained from takfir of the specific in general, so the door to apostasy was closed.
📓-[نواقض الإيمان القوليه والعملية ٥٤].