Hey George just want to say something positive. Japanese is by no feat an easy language to learn to begin with as you had pointed it is difficult for an English to learn Japanese. So having said that, all your videos had helped me seriously learn in it a way where I doubt I would have learned better under a classroom setting and considering how I had wished to learn it 15 years ago. I know by going online, you are exposed to harsh critics and linguists enthusiasts who think they know more but honestly I don't really see those people run an extensive collection of videos and books. I do appreciate you being passionate and serious to your teaching. Keep up the amazing work!
Has anyone gotten fluent by watching George's videos? I'm not asking this as a criticism. I'm asking out of sincerity. I've seen a lot of teachers of Japanese and Mandarin who learned mainly through immersion by living in the country, and then they teach. I have no doubt that videos like this are very helpful for understanding the language. Is it more helpful than spending the same time immersed in the language? There are many Japanese instruction videos from George and others, and they tend to be 98% English. You could spend a lot of time watching them. They are definitely entertaining though.
@Charlie e Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I actually have a couple of George's texts because the ebooks were cheap and I thought I'd support him and give them a look. In my experience, the people who have learned the fastest and most thoroughly are people who don't rely on sources like RUclips videos of people explaining Japanese grammar in english. Even though it feels helpful, I'm questioning whether it actually is a good path to fluency. I personally obtained most of my Japanese knowledge through a year of living in Japan and taking instruction in Japanese (vocab lists and grammar explainations had English text, but instruction was all Japanese). At the time, RUclips wasn't a thing. I would have loved to watch videos in English of someone discussing the different ways to use "koto" and such, but I'm not sure if that actually is superior to learning it in the same way that George presumably did. This seems especially true for learners at the beginning and intermediate stages. Your brain is probably better at integrating the knowledge by encountering it "naturally" numerous times rather than trying to consciously make it stick. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade - there's no harm in using the language tools that you want to use. I think it's a valid question though: Has anyone gotten fluent primarily off of these tools? I would expect "no," just like most people haven't gotten fluent through their college courses. People have gotten fluent through prioritizing immersion though - in fact, I've never met a fluent person who didn't. I think that if fluency is the goal, RUclips videos in English, and even most textbooks, are not ideal.
@@MichaelHplus What you say is obvious to say the least... But how many people has the actual chance of living/studying in Japan for an extended period of time? That's the point. I'm preparing to go for the sixth time in Japan but my actual goal is to learn the basics to keep up a conversation, something I was not able to do in my first four travels... Honestly I can't care less about purists and linguist experts, all I know is that I can read hiragana, Katakana, few kanjii and do small talk in Japanese thanks to these books and these videos, having a full time job and not much spare time to learn. I can only wish I had the chance to stay in Japan for more than 20 days...
@@MichaelHplus I think you are missing the point of these videos/books, they are not to make you fluent, they are to put you on the path of fluency. These books are basically just building blocks for you to start learning the basics, and get used to Japanese and understanding things. Once you are done with the Books and Videos, you are supposed to go out and start learning more on your own. George mentions multiple times in his videos to learn from many different sources, because he understands that you aren't going to be able to rely off of his books forever. These tools don't cover near enough vocab to understand everything, but give you enough to where you can understand a lot of things. I have noticed my Japanese level has shot up after watching George's Videos, and they are useful to learn in a slow pace. Can you become fluent with JFZ? Well not necessarily, but to become fluent is assuming you are putting in a lot of effort in other ways. Reading a textbook or taking a class isn't going to make you fluent, you need to surround yourself with the language.
Thank you for the addition of the "state" concept at the beginning. It is obvious that you have put a lot of work into your teaching method. I really appreciate it!
This is crazy amount of work, i mean the reinterpretation of the language in order to make it easier to newbies like me. Seriously thank you Joji i love you man.
I will just take a moment to say, that of all the things I think you do right with your teaching method, the thing that I by far most respect is your simplifications. I'm natively Norwegian, I went through learning English. I took three years of German. I'm now learning Japanese. And the way I've seen these grammar books bombard the reader with technical, hyper specialized terms is absolutely ridiculous. It's a distraction from the learning, and it's a pointless self important exercise of jargon. Good on you for taking a meaningful step to improve the learner's experience. We thank you for it!
Another thing for everyone watching this. Is that you can use 出す as an auxiliary verb instead of 「始まる」You would use this construction by using Vmasu- form + 出す. The ending 出す follows all normal conjugation rules. An Example would be 思い出す "to recall/ suddenly remember". 思い ＋ 出す. You can use this new formation as a verb. When you this however it means that something started suddenly and it can only be used in situations where an action is not under your control. 話し出す can be used to say "He starts talking (all of sudden), but it can not be used for "I started talking (suddenly)"
I think there are different ways to explain it which are easier to some and hard for others to grasp. As George said, the terminology is not important; what's important is understanding the distinction. The way this particular concept was explained to me that made the most sense was this: In English, there 2 types of verbs: transitive and intransitive. -- Transitive refers to any action that is done directly to something else; in other words, any action with an *object.* Ex. "take" [ I take *the keys* ], "push" [ He pushed *the cart* ], "visit" [ We will visit *Japan* ]. -- Intransitive refers to any action done in the abstract without influencing something else; in other words, any action with no object. Ex. "jump" [ He jumped ], "run" [ She ran ], "talk" [ They will talk ]. Japanese has something similar. Verbs in Japanese are called "動詞 (どうし, lit. "move-word") and there are 2 types: 他動詞 (たどうし) and 自動詞 (じどうし). (Again, the terminology is not important, I just mention it for the sake of clarification.) -- "他動詞 (たどうし, lit. "other-move-word") refers to any verb that directly acts on something else; in other words, any action that "moves" something other than the actor. Ex. "落とす" = to drop,「鉛筆を落とした」(I dropped a pencil); "空ける" = to open,「窓を空ける」(I will open a window). -- "自動詞 (じどうし, lit. "self-move-word") refers to any verb that is done by someone or something without an outside force or agent being mentioned; in other words, any action that "moves" only the actor. Ex. "落ちる" = to fall, 「雨が落ちた」(The rain fell); "空く" = to open/empty, 「今は扉が空いている」(The doors are now opening) Many verbs in Japanese have self-move/other-move counterparts, like "落ちる / 落とす" (to fall/to drop); "負ける / 負かす" (to lose/to defeat); ”届ける / 届く" (to deliver/to get delivered); etc. So as it pertains to this video "始める / 始まる" are one of these pairs. "始める" is the other-move version, and "始まる" is the self-move version. That's the difference.
When I was a kid in school in Italy, teacher explained to us that transitive verb “transit (moves)” on something (there is an object on which the verb acts), intransitive don’t. Anyway I love your way of teaching, your courses are being a great help for me, thank you very much. Ciao from Italy
In Spain we do learn a whole lot of grammar/syntax compulsorily until we finish the equivalent of year 12/13. Always thought it would forever be useless and unnecessary, but I have to admit now it's useful to grasp many German concepts, and a few Japanese concepts like this one!
Thanks for this. I was taught the term "transitive" and "intransitive" verbs about a year ago and I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it. The Active versus State explanation makes so much more sense. I appreciate how you're always thinking of ways to make Japanese easier to grasp for your students.
I had trouble with the difference between these two when I learned them from another source, but this helped me understand the difference between 始める and 始まる
Hey George, I have heard you have studied Korean and Chinese and had a question for you. In your opinion, which of the three would you consider to be the best "gateway" language to the other two for English speakers? Like if someone were starting out fresh, but wanted to learn all three languages in their lifetime, which language would you have started with looking back at your own language learning experience? For example would the easy writing style of Korean make it easier to learn the grammatical concepts for Japanese? Would learning Kanji for Japanese make learning written Chinese less stressful in the long run (even though they have different sounds)?
I made this comment after only watching 4:12 of the video, so it can be a little off in relation to the rest of the content, but... My native language is Portuguese and as an average person is SUPPOSED to be, I know what are transitive and intransitive verbs, since those terms are taught in the Portuguese Grammar discipline in all schools. As well, I know what are passive and active voice too (by the way, I'm graduated in Mathematics, so I don't have an excuse other than knowing grammar from school to justify me knowing this kind of stuff). But, for me, teaching the grammar (at least explaining that some verb is transitive or intransitive or that some sentence is an active voice or passive voice) is extremely useful, because one can relate with it without thinking too much about it. Those terms are shortcut to understanding, that maybe not everyone knows, but for who knows it, it's fairly easier to grasp. I'd appreciate if you'd mention this kind of think in a later version of the book or videos. These concepts, although very theoretical, they are very helpful indeed.
I have a Japanese grammar book and it mentions transitive and intransitive and I used to get so confused. But now that I'm majoring in linguistics, it makes more sense... But I wouldn't include it in a language learning process not designed for linguistic students.
+Amanda a.k.a. ahoko All I can say is that I finally understand the difference between "はじまる" and "はじめる"。I have no idea what "transitive" and "intransitive" means so that's something. In my unrevisioned book the words and explanations around them don't exist so George seemed to have agreed with your thought when writing it many years ago.
I was being super serious and paying attention of the explanation at first and then when you popped up with the glasses I just cracked my ass up hahahahahahhah. Thanks for everything, George.
I really appreciate the effort you put into this video! Thank you. Action and State are actually pretty good words to describe it. I researched the topic for myself and found exactly 3 verb pairs that kind of work like the japanese pairs. It's lay/lie, raise/rise and set/sit. It's hard to comprehend a concept when there are so few words where it actually matters. It makes me understand the english language and languages in general a bit more.
Dependent and Independent works for me. Independent verbs don't need anyone to make them happen, so there is no direct object (ーーが始まる）they start INDEPENDENTLY. Dependent verbs depend on someone to do the action for them so they need a direct object (ーーを始める）they can not start independently, they are DEPENDENT.
You got me thinking about formal labels for grammar and while necessary for classification, may not help in actual speaking. I struggled with this in languages I tried to learn for years. For instance, my Italian was stuck in a rut until I discovered a game show on RAI that had the questions written below the competitors. I was then able to check the fast moving speech with what was written and their discussions about the question. In a few months I because quite fluent. Similarly with another language I found a TV program with English subtitles. It was great because the first time around I read the English and when it is repeated, I listen. My difficulties in Japanese have to do with the overly formal language taught to me. I find in languages there is a threshold where if you understand a certain percentage of what's going on, say 50%, you can figure out the rest of the words by association and eventually bring the unknown quantities in that of the known. This is the way kids learn, not understanding everything but eventually the muddy waters become clearer.
Wow, intransitive and transitive verbs have confused me to no end--until now! Thank you so much George for this video! Finally things are starting to click :)
It's ok George to use the scaffolding"words like transitive and intransitive. Dictionaries use them: if you look up 終わる you find the little marker (vi) and if you look up 終える the little marker is (vt). As far as I understand these mean vi = verb intransitive and vt= verb transitive. What really matters though are your good examples to explain the difference.
In Hungarian we also have different conjugation of these verbs (not just start, end but for many other verbs), but we call the second one reflexive. I think it better describes what the verb does as the actor itself is the object.
I get that you want to avoid jargon like transitive and intransitive. For most people active and passive are jargon too! Your action/state distinction doesn’t really work either. Actions can happen at a set time, and states have duration. Some verbs in English can be both: everyone stood for the national anthem/I stood outside the restaurant for three hours. Start and finish are always actions. You can’t say *The movie started for an hour or *She started the class for ten minutes. I think the easiest way to explain the difference between 始める and 始まる is that the first is “someone starts something” and the second is “something starts”.
Right, but having unified words for all verbs of a class helps with grammar explanations. I honestly can never remember the meaning of “transitive” and “volitional“ as easy as “Action” and “Descriptive” which is what we use now in the soon to be released book 5. I am also aware of how verbs can have dual roles. Teaching Japanese is a delicate balance between making it all easy to understand and to not confuse everyday people with linguistic terms only used in the learning of a language. For guys like me who study many languages it is probably beneficial to learn these terms... but really Japanese, Chinese, and Korean actually call them names that reflect what they do. I wish English had more everyday names for them. Which is why I renamed them in the books. :-)
I hope I don’t sound like I am disagreeing just to disagree or to be right. I honestly really only want to make Japanese learning easy. If I personally hate those classification naming conventions I am probably not the only one. I took a Chinese class in college and terms like that are overwhelming and seem to just make it that much more work. I don’t think students should have to learn new English words when learning a new language.
Learn Japanese From Zero! Hi George. You’re right. All those words come from Latin and don’t even work for English, let alone Chinese, Japanese or Korean. You say Japanese uses names that reflect what the verbs do. What are those names?
Yes, I like those. Hard to find a nice English equivalent. I still don’t think action and description work, which I know isn’t helpful if you’ve just put them in the book! There was a comment from someone below who called them を and が verbs. I’m not sure about が but を and no-を might work! By the way, I’m going to a polyglots conference in Fukuoka in a couple of weeks and Japanese is becoming my 11th language with lots of help from your videos! Many thanks for your excellent work and I wish you huge success with book 5.
Lighting: architectural tracing paper is your friend. It will diffuse the light. The ring light you're using isn't really working well. Usually those things need to be quite close.
In my language, we call 自動詞 "reflexive". The subject of the sentence acts upon itself, like a reflection. Passive is different in that someone else does something to our poor sentence subject.
Hi George! The new format looks really cool. I have some experience with lighting for photography. I would recommend to soften the light with a second light source or a reflector. The hard shadows on to the right looks a bit too dramatic for an educational video, in my opinion :)
I like your explanation that intransitive verbs convey a state. I can see how you have to be careful saying their passive because of passive voice. I think a good explanation of passive voice is when you turn an action into a state of being. ex. The dog bit me. (active) become I was bitten by the dog. (being bitten is more of state). I found drilling this exercise brings home this point. Intransitive verb are always stuck as being a state. Plus they never have a direct object. I think Japanese having a direct object particle to mark the it makes it a little easier to understand what the direct object is than in language that rely on the position of the word . I think that's why it's hard to understand it in English. My question in all of this is are all intransitive going to have "a" in the hajiMAru and transitive going to "e" like hajiMEru? I'm having a heck of time remembering the which is which since a lot of them come in pairs. I like the Me mnemonic. I was think me is also the word for eye so I do the action (though that's kind of complicated, LOL)
Might it be that passive verbs are driven by Something or someone while active verbs are driven by themselves ?? In Spanish, we pretty much can use them all in both ways !
You need anti reflective lenses for your eyeglasses. I see circles on your eye lenses from the light. Anti-Reflective Coating: See Better and Look Better This is an article I Binged on the net.
I agree that it is not necessary to learn grammar terms to learn Japanese grammar. I personally like to use them and it helps me... But that's me. However, IMO, if you use grammatical terminology, you should use it properly. Transitive is transitive, passive is passive and these terms have specific meaning.... In English, transitive/intransitive pairs are usually different verbs. In Japanese, the pairs are often similar but not alwaya. in both languages transitive/intransitive pairs are not *conjugations* of verbs. These pairs are better viewed as separate verbs (that can be studied together). Transitive==takes a direct object. Intransitive==doesn't accept a direct object. Passive/active voices are actually conjugations of verbs. But back to our regularly scheduled programming 😁
While I do recognise the word intransitive (if I think of a train. if it is currently moving or active the train is transiting, if it is stood still it is inoperable or intransitive because no one is moving the train), honestly it is a stupid word and I am glad you stuck to your guns and didnt use it, your right, I think it would hurt more people than help.
IMO using grammar terms especially something as 'transitive and intransitive' that we learned in middle school is pretty much helpful for the majority.
you never warned us about those glasses, george... Any way! I'm glad we finally got to transitive and intrasitive! i happened to run into this problem(over and over again) on hellotalk and i simply could not understand why は and が would ever come before a verb, or what that meant. i didn't understand the difference. In my mind, 歌が聞こえる and 歌を聴く were the same thing. in the case of the i n t r a n s i t i v e i didn't understand why a が could even be used. 歌 is the object, and you are 聞こえるing it. i was lost. UNTIL, one of my japanese friends hit me with this word. 自動詞. i looked it up, and finally, i had a name for what was going on, and an english equivalent to relate to. obviously, i know how to speak english, so if i know the difference between transitive and intransitive in english, then i can figure it out in japanese! thanks to learning the words 自動詞 and 他動詞, i understood everything about this grammar that was just earlier kicking my ass. I learned that, like in the case of 聴く vs 聞こえる some verbs have completely different forms for their trans/intrans uses. some verbs are ONLY transitive, and others ONLY intransitive. i also realized that dictionaries will tell you which one a verb is. before, that, it was just random nonsense to me, but now i get more info from dictionaries. I was able to look up lists for these two things, giving me plenty of examples on the differences. Since i understood the english distinction(the ball dropped vs the dog dropped the ball) i was able to understand the japanese distinction(犬が落ちた vs 犬はボールを落とした). It was easy! and all because someone taught me the technical grammatical term that means nothing outside of grammar. so, i disagree with you about grammar terms. for me at least, they help immensely, because i need to feel like i understand why something works the way it does sometimes. But i think, most importantly, it allows me to know it's english counterpart, therefore, allowing me to bring over my old intuitive understanding to japanese. and any other language that uses these verb types. i'll know what it's called and roughly how it works. it will carry over! If i don't know the correct grammatical term, i won't be able to find answers, or how to explain it in a way that anyone would understand. because all you have to do is look up this specific term, and you'll get the specific answer in your own language to work with. whether it be spanish, korean, or chinese, i should now (roughly)understand how Transitive and Intransitive verbs work, exactly what they are called, and be able to recognize the thing when i see it. but im seriously a language baby so maybe im wrong lol. this just how it was for me with tran/intran.
but, it's cool that you use "active" to describe transitive because that's how i thought of it! 歌を聴く Choose to listen to it. Actively listening to the song. 歌が聞こえる The song just happens to be playing and i can't help but to hear it.
Man... this looks awesome! Though, I would say, if you're going to keep that light ring as your main light source, don't wear glasses while doing the videos.
Hi George, wonderful video as usual. Thank you for all of the great material. Coincidentally I was going out with a Japanese friend earlier tonight and this sort of related example came up when I was asking him stuff: 「あなたが 見えました」。Does this break the rule that you can't attach a person/someone to an intransitive (ugh..) verb, or is it a different thing all together? I guess you could either translate it as, "You were visible", "You have been seen" or "(I) could/was able to see you" , but I'm not going to trust myself (or my JP buddy, for that matter) on this. I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks :)!
GREAT VID'S MAN, TRANSITIVE AND INTRANSITIVE SENSES ARE KIND OF A PAIN... :o) Okay, I know this is old by now, and you do have a solid way of explaining verbs as it stands. Active/State works. It's simple and you are teaching (to my understanding) a "field-guy's course"... For pure linguists (and a few junkies on the subject) there are technical terms like "transitive and intransitive"... So for the sharpest cut and dry I've heard on the subject, first focus on the root word "transit" ~ indicating motion. Transitive verbs are active verbs that have a Subject-verb-object format in English. Intransitive verbs are verbs that have a Subject-verb (notice no object) format in English. It works similarly in Japanese, but the simplest is that an intransitive verb "just happens"... and in Japanese, there's more complexity about that nuance than in English, since English still often uses the same verbs (exactly) in both senses. I open the door. (transitive) The door opens. (intransitive) BUT this is the "technical-guy's lesson. It helps virtually nobody else to deliberate the most technical and long-winded explanations. It's what makes the "field-guy's lesson" so much more helpful, relatable, and useful. "Active verbs" and "State verbs" are easily grasped without dictionary, thesaurus, nor Ph.D. in linguistics... So I might suggest (even for future revisions) you put a glossary reference section in the books, where you can cite the intent clearly in your terms (defining "active" as the transitive sense and so forth)... A simple numerical list would allow you a simple enough notation to avoid confusing the linguistical experts while the rest of us can still read and grasp the point readily enough on our own. If you're interested in where else I've looked to get to this point, you can also check out JapaneseAmmoWithMisa (another YT channel) and she has a video in her "beginner's lessons" series that explains the Japanese technical sense of transitive and intransitive about as well as I've ever seen anyway...
marcnut1996 yes aketearu is akeru in te form +aru. And its something between intransitive and pasive form(in my opinion). 1.Doa ga aketearu - door is open(door was open by someone, and now is open )(described state). 2.Doa ga aiteiru - door is open(just state). 3.Doa ga akerareta - door was been open(by someone, and now is open)(described action) And by explain I mean, where I should use "tearu".
i have never heard of a te-aru form. but i would think mado wo aketeiru means someone is opening the window. but one thing im also confused is, what would be the difference between usage of aku (intransitive) and akerareru (passive verb form)
marcnut1996 look at this example: Oyu - hot watter Waku - boil Wakasu - I boil something Tateru - to build something Tatemono - building, house Oyu ga waku - the water is boiling (nobody do nothin, but is boiling ) Oyu ga wakasaseru - water is boiled (by someone) Asoko de tatemono ga taterareru - over there house will by built. (And you can't use intransitive verb here because the action of "building" can't happen without human intervention).
Way back in school I learned that transitive verbs take an object and intransitive verbs don't take an object. That doesn't help me much in understanding how these verbs work. Your explanation with active/passive or action/state verbs, on the other hand, actually helps me understand how to use them. I also don't think there is much danger of mixing up passive verbs with passive voice.
@japanesefromzero I really hope in the six years since this video was made that you've changed your stance on this because it really does a disservice to your students. Perhaps 30 years ago it made sense to not use words like intransitive, but information is much more accessible today. At 3:00 you say that transitive/intransitive only exist in the context of grammar explanations, but the same is true for verb, noun, adjective, etc. Why do those words get a pass? Why not call nouns "thingy words" and adjectives "describers"? Unless JFZ intends to teach every verb a Japanese student will ever encounter, a student will eventually need to look that word up in a dictionary. Just now I looked up 買う in a dictionary and the first line is "Godan verb with u ending, Transitive verb". It's not just Japanese either, I looked up 'buy' in the Merriam-Webster dictionary and it uses transitive and intransitive. How about Spanish? I looked up 'comprar' in a Spanish dictionary for native speakers and transitivo is used. I don't understand why you think we wouldn't understand "transitive verbs require a direct object, intransitive don't" when we've already covered much more difficult material.
Is it a coincidence, that the active form use an "e-form" hiragana before the verbs "u-form" hiragana for the "active" verb and an "a-form" hiragana before the verbs "u-form" hiragana for the "passive" verb for both verbs: haji-ME-ru --> haji-MA-ru o-E-ru --> o-WA-ru
I don't think it's a coincidence at all. other examples are: a-GE-ru --> a-GA-ru sa-GE-ru --> sa-GA-ru BTW George - I think the best way to explain transitive verbs is that the action is being TRANSIT-ted from the subject to an object. The English word 'set' for example. You set things. But you don't sit things. You simply sit. That's why sit is IN-transitive. Anyway this is quite different from active/passive which is the difference between "You made this video./This video was made (by you)."
Yes... I know............ the problem is TRANSITIVE and INTRANSITIVE are words we ONLY user for Grammar explanations. This means they aren't real life. I have changed the terminology to ACTION and STATE now and that feels easier. I am not a fan of learning a word specifically to describe grammar. I avoid them when possible.
This is risky, not all verbs follow this pattern. For example DE-ru (go out) and DA-su (take something out) break your rule immediately; other verbs simply don't have forms that allow to perceive and "A" - "E" variation, like ugoku (Intransitive, or "State verb" following George's terminology) and ugokasu (Transitive, Action verb). You can actually found other patterns to help you infer whether a verb is T/I, but it gets confusing since it depends on the particular form of that verb (does it end in -ru? -su? -u?) and there would probably still be exceptions. This is at least what I happened to observe studying Japanese. So I'm no expert, don't get me too seriously.
You are not the only one these are the names of groups I have read several Japanese language books and vids on YT some say "active passive" whilst others say "transitive intransitive", I went back into studying because of health issues forced me to stop working I got qualifications in Psychology and sociology and then went to uni and got my degree in social policy and criminology, the social sciences have a language of their own it would have been easier learning klingon
I get why you think he makes things "easier" and if that helps you get the concept great! But, then dump it and learn the correct terms before this guy really, really hurts you. Every subject has "words only created to explain it" but that is literally the point! So you can explain things using common agreed terms, so there is no confusion. Imagine Georgey taught you to drive and didn't like the term "brakes" and thought "stoppers" was clearer on what they did. If you then talked to anybody on the planet that didn't listen to him, about using your stoppers they either wouldn't know what you are talking about, or say "you mean the brakes" and think you were an idiot. Same goes for all the things he tries to convince you because he doesn't like them, you shouldn't use them. But, if you go to any class in school, they use them, go to Japan, they use them, even English uses it (Your English professor will love you it if you know that transitive verbs are verbs that take an object. - that so hard?) His videos are filled with these things you will have to re-learn if you don't throw them away. Stems don't come at the end of words like often uses it, but a suffix does. And a suffix gets stuck on a stem! ichidan and godan is so incomprehensible? First, when you talk to Japanese, that is all they use. ichi-dan = one step, go-dan = 5 steps. ichi moves one step on the hiragana chart, go uses all fives steps. Actually less confusing really AND that is how they are listed in every dictionary. Just because it took him over 2 hours to come up with an "answer" speaks more about his knowledge of language than the problems with explaining it. He talks about Latin underlying english and he is right. So lets look:. Transitive - "Trans" you know that,: transition, translation. Yup going from one "State" to another. Just like you opening a window! Hey, that didn't hurt and might be useful if you didn't know a word like transit. Don't let him fool you - take a moment to learn it correctly.
Hey George, I don't know if you'll ever see this. Also, I'm not sure what level of anal perfectionist you are... but I tend to be like that with videos on my other channel. You have quite a lot of microphone hiss, this is easily fixed using Audacity. And in the older office format, with that light ring, you kind of need to adjust the white balance. Again super easy. In all honesty, these issues don't affect the videos, but they're two small things you could do to up the production level.
Also, if you'd like me to explain how to do these things I'm perfectly happy to do so. All you need is something grey for the white balance, and a free program for the sound.
I admire George for trying to avoid jargon words the best he can. They are terrible for learners and only help people who already have an advanced understanding of the subject, and a lot of the time people just use jargon words to sound smart and to gate keep information from others.
They are transitive and intransitive verbs, not active and intransitive. Active is the opposite of passive. transitive verb = verb with object intransitive verb = verb without object It is extremly simple.
@@japanesefromzero So are you now. The thing I like the most about your videos is that you are just a nice person to listen to like a teacher should be (and that includes me actually, as I am going to be one myself one day). Watching you years after the video came out still feels interactive and engaging. In this video it was the first time I can think of that I had something criticize. You know, everyone is different. More people than you might think understand "active", "passive", "transitive", "intransitive" and will inevitably run into some major misunderstandings. I am not a hundred percent sure about why you made that reply. It makes me think, you believe that the purpose of my comment was just to brag about knowing the words or even worse to talk down to you. The intent of my comment was to explain the meaning of the terms transitive and intransitive in the simplest way possible and to show that you don't need a lot of knowledge of linguistics or anything to get it. It is completely besides the point, when you write "You are smarter than my videos". I take it as a very emotional reaction. The voice you had in your head while reading my original comment must have been the funny impression you pull of every now and then when you talk about people commenting about something you purposely withhold for a later lesson.
I feel like you have been living under a rock. The english-japanese dictionnary I used, Rikaichan and Tangorin as well as most texbooks I used always tell you which verb is which. It's really handy since most verbs have transitive and intransitive form （他動詞 自動詞 in japanese）. Thinks about verbs like 集める・集まる、渡す・渡る、終わる・終えるect.
It's actually unfortunate George, because active and passive in theory mean "the thing one does" and "the thing that happens spontaneously". Looks like the people who coined grammatical terms didn't have a good vocabulary. If I had to give a name to the active and passive voice system I would have named it subjective and objective sentences. It's simple and makes sense.
@@japanesefromzero I am not a grammar teacher😂. I just coined two terms out of the blue. What I wanted to say was, there can be many more simpler options for these terms like, I don't know, doer based and receiver based. P. S. By the way, I have one year before I apply to Tokyo University. I have completed book 2, do you suggest buying book 3 or waiting for revision? I did the same comment on one of your new videos but you didn't reply, so I assumed you didn't see it. Also, please tell me, what level of Kanji will I be needing for the exams?
I had forgot about this. But the current set up is actually based on this style. There is an 86 inch TV behind me. The main difference is it's not showing the PowerPoint but a shelf instead.
I think you can say but like someone ask you about your relation. and you say: ( ああ！そんな関係を終えました。 Ah! I finished such relationship.) or (ああ！そんな関係が終わりました。 Ah! That relationship is over. )
Power up your Japanese on FromZero.com (lessons, quizzes, games, ask-a-teacher)
Hey George just want to say something positive. Japanese is by no feat an easy language to learn to begin with as you had pointed it is difficult for an English to learn Japanese. So having said that, all your videos had helped me seriously learn in it a way where I doubt I would have learned better under a classroom setting and considering how I had wished to learn it 15 years ago. I know by going online, you are exposed to harsh critics and linguists enthusiasts who think they know more but honestly I don't really see those people run an extensive collection of videos and books. I do appreciate you being passionate and serious to your teaching. Keep up the amazing work!
Has anyone gotten fluent by watching George's videos? I'm not asking this as a criticism. I'm asking out of sincerity. I've seen a lot of teachers of Japanese and Mandarin who learned mainly through immersion by living in the country, and then they teach.
I have no doubt that videos like this are very helpful for understanding the language. Is it more helpful than spending the same time immersed in the language? There are many Japanese instruction videos from George and others, and they tend to be 98% English. You could spend a lot of time watching them. They are definitely entertaining though.
@Charlie e Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I actually have a couple of George's texts because the ebooks were cheap and I thought I'd support him and give them a look.
In my experience, the people who have learned the fastest and most thoroughly are people who don't rely on sources like RUclips videos of people explaining Japanese grammar in english. Even though it feels helpful, I'm questioning whether it actually is a good path to fluency.
I personally obtained most of my Japanese knowledge through a year of living in Japan and taking instruction in Japanese (vocab lists and grammar explainations had English text, but instruction was all Japanese). At the time, RUclips wasn't a thing. I would have loved to watch videos in English of someone discussing the different ways to use "koto" and such, but I'm not sure if that actually is superior to learning it in the same way that George presumably did.
This seems especially true for learners at the beginning and intermediate stages. Your brain is probably better at integrating the knowledge by encountering it "naturally" numerous times rather than trying to consciously make it stick.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade - there's no harm in using the language tools that you want to use. I think it's a valid question though: Has anyone gotten fluent primarily off of these tools? I would expect "no," just like most people haven't gotten fluent through their college courses. People have gotten fluent through prioritizing immersion though - in fact, I've never met a fluent person who didn't. I think that if fluency is the goal, RUclips videos in English, and even most textbooks, are not ideal.
@@MichaelHplus What you say is obvious to say the least... But how many people has the actual chance of living/studying in Japan for an extended period of time? That's the point. I'm preparing to go for the sixth time in Japan but my actual goal is to learn the basics to keep up a conversation, something I was not able to do in my first four travels... Honestly I can't care less about purists and linguist experts, all I know is that I can read hiragana, Katakana, few kanjii and do small talk in Japanese thanks to these books and these videos, having a full time job and not much spare time to learn.
I can only wish I had the chance to stay in Japan for more than 20 days...
@@MichaelHplus I think you are missing the point of these videos/books, they are not to make you fluent, they are to put you on the path of fluency. These books are basically just building blocks for you to start learning the basics, and get used to Japanese and understanding things. Once you are done with the Books and Videos, you are supposed to go out and start learning more on your own. George mentions multiple times in his videos to learn from many different sources, because he understands that you aren't going to be able to rely off of his books forever. These tools don't cover near enough vocab to understand everything, but give you enough to where you can understand a lot of things. I have noticed my Japanese level has shot up after watching George's Videos, and they are useful to learn in a slow pace. Can you become fluent with JFZ? Well not necessarily, but to become fluent is assuming you are putting in a lot of effort in other ways. Reading a textbook or taking a class isn't going to make you fluent, you need to surround yourself with the language.
Thank you for the addition of the "state" concept at the beginning. It is obvious that you have put a lot of work into your teaching method. I really appreciate it!
This is crazy amount of work, i mean the reinterpretation of the language in order to make it easier to newbies like me. Seriously thank you Joji i love you man.
I will just take a moment to say, that of all the things I think you do right with your teaching method, the thing that I by far most respect is your simplifications. I'm natively Norwegian, I went through learning English. I took three years of German. I'm now learning Japanese. And the way I've seen these grammar books bombard the reader with technical, hyper specialized terms is absolutely ridiculous. It's a distraction from the learning, and it's a pointless self important exercise of jargon. Good on you for taking a meaningful step to improve the learner's experience. We thank you for it!
Another thing for everyone watching this. Is that you can use 出す as an auxiliary verb instead of 「始まる」You would use this construction by using Vmasu- form + 出す. The ending 出す follows all normal conjugation rules. An Example would be 思い出す "to recall/ suddenly remember". 思い ＋ 出す. You can use this new formation as a verb. When you this however it means that something started suddenly and it can only be used in situations where an action is not under your control. 話し出す can be used to say "He starts talking (all of sudden), but it can not be used for "I started talking (suddenly)"
I think there are different ways to explain it which are easier to some and hard for others to grasp. As George said, the terminology is not important; what's important is understanding the distinction. The way this particular concept was explained to me that made the most sense was this:
In English, there 2 types of verbs: transitive and intransitive.
-- Transitive refers to any action that is done directly to something else; in other words, any action with an *object.* Ex. "take" [ I take *the keys* ], "push" [ He pushed *the cart* ], "visit" [ We will visit *Japan* ].
-- Intransitive refers to any action done in the abstract without influencing something else; in other words, any action with no object. Ex. "jump" [ He jumped ], "run" [ She ran ], "talk" [ They will talk ].
Japanese has something similar. Verbs in Japanese are called "動詞 (どうし, lit. "move-word") and there are 2 types: 他動詞 (たどうし) and 自動詞 (じどうし). (Again, the terminology is not important, I just mention it for the sake of clarification.)
-- "他動詞 (たどうし, lit. "other-move-word") refers to any verb that directly acts on something else; in other words, any action that "moves" something other than the actor. Ex. "落とす" = to drop,「鉛筆を落とした」(I dropped a pencil); "空ける" = to open,「窓を空ける」(I will open a window).
-- "自動詞 (じどうし, lit. "self-move-word") refers to any verb that is done by someone or something without an outside force or agent being mentioned; in other words, any action that "moves" only the actor. Ex. "落ちる" = to fall, 「雨が落ちた」(The rain fell); "空く" = to open/empty, 「今は扉が空いている」(The doors are now opening)
Many verbs in Japanese have self-move/other-move counterparts, like "落ちる / 落とす" (to fall/to drop); "負ける / 負かす" (to lose/to defeat); ”届ける / 届く" (to deliver/to get delivered); etc. So as it pertains to this video "始める / 始まる" are one of these pairs. "始める" is the other-move version, and "始まる" is the self-move version. That's the difference.
When I was a kid in school in Italy, teacher explained to us that transitive verb “transit (moves)” on something (there is an object on which the verb acts), intransitive don’t. Anyway I love your way of teaching, your courses are being a great help for me, thank you very much. Ciao from Italy
In Spain we do learn a whole lot of grammar/syntax compulsorily until we finish the equivalent of year 12/13. Always thought it would forever be useless and unnecessary, but I have to admit now it's useful to grasp many German concepts, and a few Japanese concepts like this one!
Yess, finally I can understand "Kaizoku Ou ni ore wa naru"
oh my god
Thank you so much for explaining the difference between 始める and 始まる! I have been wondering about this difference for quite a while.
I always just thought of them as を and が verbs !
Have to say - I never thought about that, it was just common sense to me, but that's clarifying
Thanks for this. I was taught the term "transitive" and "intransitive" verbs about a year ago and I still have a hard time wrapping my head around it. The Active versus State explanation makes so much more sense. I appreciate how you're always thinking of ways to make Japanese easier to grasp for your students.
OMG George, I love this format soo much
my favorite part about learning grammar is how suddenly old phrases and what not suddenly makes sense.
I don't think you've talked about casual volitional before in the videos. You just talked about the 'mashou' (polite) version.
He talked about it in the ask teacher videos
Some constructive criticism, The LED ring reflecting from your glasses is distracting. Otherwise Congrats on the upgrade.
Raj Akbar - I agree. I will figure out a better method.
That new setup looks slick! If you find a solution to the LED reflection, you're golden.
I had trouble with the difference between these two when I learned them from another source, but this helped me understand the difference between 始める and 始まる
Hey George, I have heard you have studied Korean and Chinese and had a question for you. In your opinion, which of the three would you consider to be the best "gateway" language to the other two for English speakers? Like if someone were starting out fresh, but wanted to learn all three languages in their lifetime, which language would you have started with looking back at your own language learning experience?
For example would the easy writing style of Korean make it easier to learn the grammatical concepts for Japanese? Would learning Kanji for Japanese make learning written Chinese less stressful in the long run (even though they have different sounds)?
I think that action/state is a great way to make the distinction.
I made this comment after only watching 4:12 of the video, so it can be a little off in relation to the rest of the content, but...
My native language is Portuguese and as an average person is SUPPOSED to be, I know what are transitive and intransitive verbs, since those terms are taught in the Portuguese Grammar discipline in all schools. As well, I know what are passive and active voice too (by the way, I'm graduated in Mathematics, so I don't have an excuse other than knowing grammar from school to justify me knowing this kind of stuff). But, for me, teaching the grammar (at least explaining that some verb is transitive or intransitive or that some sentence is an active voice or passive voice) is extremely useful, because one can relate with it without thinking too much about it. Those terms are shortcut to understanding, that maybe not everyone knows, but for who knows it, it's fairly easier to grasp. I'd appreciate if you'd mention this kind of think in a later version of the book or videos. These concepts, although very theoretical, they are very helpful indeed.
I’m watching your videos now while on the train. Your videos are so helpful while living in Japan!
I have a Japanese grammar book and it mentions transitive and intransitive and I used to get so confused. But now that I'm majoring in linguistics, it makes more sense... But I wouldn't include it in a language learning process not designed for linguistic students.
+Amanda a.k.a. ahoko All I can say is that I finally understand the difference between "はじまる" and "はじめる"。I have no idea what "transitive" and "intransitive" means so that's something. In my unrevisioned book the words and explanations around them don't exist so George seemed to have agreed with your thought when writing it many years ago.
I don't know when i will get to average fluency but man, have these videos helped. Thank you so much for these
I was being super serious and paying attention of the explanation at first and then when you popped up with the glasses I just cracked my ass up hahahahahahhah. Thanks for everything, George.
I really appreciate the effort you put into this video! Thank you. Action and State are actually pretty good words to describe it.
I researched the topic for myself and found exactly 3 verb pairs that kind of work like the japanese pairs. It's lay/lie, raise/rise and set/sit. It's hard to comprehend a concept when there are so few words where it actually matters. It makes me understand the english language and languages in general a bit more.
Dependent and Independent works for me. Independent verbs don't need anyone to make them happen, so there is no direct object (ーーが始まる）they start INDEPENDENTLY. Dependent verbs depend on someone to do the action for them so they need a direct object (ーーを始める）they can not start independently, they are DEPENDENT.
You got me thinking about formal labels for grammar and while necessary for classification, may not help in actual speaking. I struggled with this in languages I tried to learn for years. For instance, my Italian was stuck in a rut until I discovered a game show on RAI that had the questions written below the competitors. I was then able to check the fast moving speech with what was written and their discussions about the question. In a few months I because quite fluent.
Similarly with another language I found a TV program with English subtitles. It was great because the first time around I read the English and when it is repeated, I listen.
My difficulties in Japanese have to do with the overly formal language taught to me. I find in languages there is a threshold where if you understand a certain percentage of what's going on, say 50%, you can figure out the rest of the words by association and eventually bring the unknown quantities in that of the known. This is the way kids learn, not understanding everything but eventually the muddy waters become clearer.
Wow, intransitive and transitive verbs have confused me to no end--until now! Thank you so much George for this video! Finally things are starting to click :)
Holy moly I actually got the "what time does the show start" right! My Japanese learning is slowing paying off. :D
Another great video. ありがとう先生。
It's ok George to use the scaffolding"words like transitive and intransitive. Dictionaries use them: if you look up 終わる you find the little marker (vi) and if you look up 終える the little marker is (vt). As far as I understand these mean vi = verb intransitive and vt= verb transitive. What really matters though are your good examples to explain the difference.
In Hungarian we also have different conjugation of these verbs (not just start, end but for many other verbs), but we call the second one reflexive. I think it better describes what the verb does as the actor itself is the object.
You're the coolest teacher, George!
I get that you want to avoid jargon like transitive and intransitive. For most people active and passive are jargon too! Your action/state distinction doesn’t really work either. Actions can happen at a set time, and states have duration. Some verbs in English can be both: everyone stood for the national anthem/I stood outside the restaurant for three hours. Start and finish are always actions. You can’t say *The movie started for an hour or *She started the class for ten minutes.
I think the easiest way to explain the difference between 始める and 始まる is that the first is “someone starts something” and the second is “something starts”.
Right, but having unified words for all verbs of a class helps with grammar explanations. I honestly can never remember the meaning of “transitive” and “volitional“ as easy as “Action” and “Descriptive” which is what we use now in the soon to be released book 5. I am also aware of how verbs can have dual roles. Teaching Japanese is a delicate balance between making it all easy to understand and to not confuse everyday people with linguistic terms only used in the learning of a language. For guys like me who study many languages it is probably beneficial to learn these terms... but really Japanese, Chinese, and Korean actually call them names that reflect what they do. I wish English had more everyday names for them. Which is why I renamed them in the books. :-)
I hope I don’t sound like I am disagreeing just to disagree or to be right. I honestly really only want to make Japanese learning easy. If I personally hate those classification naming conventions I am probably not the only one. I took a Chinese class in college and terms like that are overwhelming and seem to just make it that much more work. I don’t think students should have to learn new English words when learning a new language.
Learn Japanese From Zero! Hi George. You’re right. All those words come from Latin and don’t even work for English, let alone Chinese, Japanese or Korean. You say Japanese uses names that reflect what the verbs do. What are those names?
Dave Huxtable, Inc 自動詞、他動詞 literally self verb, other verb meaning who did the action. You or someone else. So nice :-)
Yes, I like those. Hard to find a nice English equivalent.
I still don’t think action and description work, which I know isn’t helpful if you’ve just put them in the book!
There was a comment from someone below who called them を and が verbs. I’m not sure about が but を and no-を might work!
By the way, I’m going to a polyglots conference in Fukuoka in a couple of weeks and Japanese is becoming my 11th language with lots of help from your videos! Many thanks for your excellent work and I wish you huge success with book 5.
Lighting: architectural tracing paper is your friend. It will diffuse the light. The ring light you're using isn't really working well. Usually those things need to be quite close.
Transitive Property of Metal
That one had me dying lol
In my language, we call 自動詞 "reflexive".
The subject of the sentence acts upon itself, like a reflection.
Passive is different in that someone else does something to our poor sentence subject.
Is the には explained before? I don't remember. What video?
zapxcero Legit course 1 And I think 26 Or Something
Amazing TV! Great lesson :)
24:11 in which video can I find the bit about ‘let’s informal’?
Can’t find it in the books or can’t seem to find the video you’re referring to here.
The Naru have not forgotten us.
Hi George! The new format looks really cool. I have some experience with lighting for photography. I would recommend to soften the light with a second light source or a reflector. The hard shadows on to the right looks a bit too dramatic for an educational video, in my opinion :)
I like your explanation that intransitive verbs convey a state. I can see how you have to be careful saying their passive because of passive voice. I think a good explanation of passive voice is when you turn an action into a state of being. ex. The dog bit me. (active) become I was bitten by the dog. (being bitten is more of state). I found drilling this exercise brings home this point. Intransitive verb are always stuck as being a state. Plus they never have a direct object. I think Japanese having a direct object particle to mark the it makes it a little easier to understand what the direct object is than in language that rely on the position of the word . I think that's why it's hard to understand it in English. My question in all of this is are all intransitive going to have "a" in the hajiMAru and transitive going to "e" like hajiMEru? I'm having a heck of time remembering the which is which since a lot of them come in pairs. I like the Me mnemonic. I was think me is also the word for eye so I do the action (though that's kind of complicated, LOL)
Might it be that passive verbs are driven by Something or someone while active verbs are driven by themselves ?? In Spanish, we pretty much can use them all in both ways !
Can anyone explain the reason for the Wa instead of Ga on the "what time will the movie start sentence?"
I like the new video setup! Nice!
intransitive and passive verbs make a lot more sense if you know swedish, french etc.
You need anti reflective lenses for your eyeglasses. I see circles on your eye lenses from the light.
Anti-Reflective Coating: See Better and Look Better
This is an article I Binged on the net.
My second language is inglish so i know how grammer works and active and pasive are a whole difrent thing.
Kaizuko ni ore wa naru. Thank you one piece
I agree that it is not necessary to learn grammar terms to learn Japanese grammar. I personally like to use them and it helps me... But that's me.
However, IMO, if you use grammatical terminology, you should use it properly.
Transitive is transitive, passive is passive and these terms have specific meaning....
In English, transitive/intransitive pairs are usually different verbs. In Japanese, the pairs are often similar but not alwaya. in both languages transitive/intransitive pairs are not *conjugations* of verbs. These pairs are better viewed as separate verbs (that can be studied together).
Transitive==takes a direct object.
Intransitive==doesn't accept a direct object.
Passive/active voices are actually conjugations of verbs.
But back to our regularly scheduled programming 😁
I liked the ending!
While I do recognise the word intransitive (if I think of a train. if it is currently moving or active the train is transiting, if it is stood still it is inoperable or intransitive because no one is moving the train), honestly it is a stupid word and I am glad you stuck to your guns and didnt use it, your right, I think it would hurt more people than help.
IMO using grammar terms especially something as 'transitive and intransitive' that we learned in middle school is pretty much helpful for the majority.
I love your videos! keep it up😊
you never warned us about those glasses, george...
Any way! I'm glad we finally got to transitive and intrasitive! i happened to run into this problem(over and over again) on hellotalk and i simply could not understand why は and が would ever come before a verb, or what that meant. i didn't understand the difference. In my mind, 歌が聞こえる and 歌を聴く were the same thing. in the case of the i n t r a n s i t i v e i didn't understand why a が could even be used. 歌 is the object, and you are 聞こえるing it. i was lost.
UNTIL, one of my japanese friends hit me with this word. 自動詞. i looked it up, and finally, i had a name for what was going on, and an english equivalent to relate to. obviously, i know how to speak english, so if i know the difference between transitive and intransitive in english, then i can figure it out in japanese!
thanks to learning the words 自動詞 and 他動詞, i understood everything about this grammar that was just earlier kicking my ass. I learned that, like in the case of 聴く vs 聞こえる some verbs have completely different forms for their trans/intrans uses. some verbs are ONLY transitive, and others ONLY intransitive. i also realized that dictionaries will tell you which one a verb is. before, that, it was just random nonsense to me, but now i get more info from dictionaries. I was able to look up lists for these two things, giving me plenty of examples on the differences.
Since i understood the english distinction(the ball dropped vs the dog dropped the ball) i was able to understand the japanese distinction(犬が落ちた vs 犬はボールを落とした). It was easy! and all because someone taught me the technical grammatical term that means nothing outside of grammar.
so, i disagree with you about grammar terms. for me at least, they help immensely, because i need to feel like i understand why something works the way it does sometimes. But i think, most importantly, it allows me to know it's english counterpart, therefore, allowing me to bring over my old intuitive understanding to japanese. and any other language that uses these verb types. i'll know what it's called and roughly how it works. it will carry over! If i don't know the correct grammatical term, i won't be able to find answers, or how to explain it in a way that anyone would understand. because all you have to do is look up this specific term, and you'll get the specific answer in your own language to work with. whether it be spanish, korean, or chinese, i should now (roughly)understand how Transitive and Intransitive verbs work, exactly what they are called, and be able to recognize the thing when i see it.
but im seriously a language baby so maybe im wrong lol. this just how it was for me with tran/intran.
but, it's cool that you use "active" to describe transitive because that's how i thought of it!
歌を聴く Choose to listen to it. Actively listening to the song.
歌が聞こえる The song just happens to be playing and i can't help but to hear it.
12:20 i thought you said: "wow, it's already winner"
thank you sir
Is this 始める the one that shows up in はじめまして？
That makes alot more sense!
I cannot really find all your videos on YFZ homepage. Any instruction how I can access them?
If you know Spanish or any latin language this one is easy its like "se"
Yo se!
Darnit George you are making videos faster then I can catch up. I'm only on Book 3 lesson 4. :(
Do 止まる and 止める do this as well?
Yes.
neat i like the new look.
So what's the difference between active and transitive verbs?
Think (action)active and transitive are same thing as he teach us his way.
(action)activeとtransitiveは同じです。私は好きです。
学校に行かないからこれは易しいです。
@@さいとう-c6b Are you saying that active and transitive verbs are the same?
yeah at least according to his video.
wow, that is awesome!!!
Man... this looks awesome!
Though, I would say, if you're going to keep that light ring as your main light source, don't wear glasses while doing the videos.
Hi George, wonderful video as usual. Thank you for all of the great material. Coincidentally I was going out with a Japanese friend earlier tonight and this sort of related example came up when I was asking him stuff: 「あなたが 見えました」。Does this break the rule that you can't attach a person/someone to an intransitive (ugh..) verb, or is it a different thing all together? I guess you could either translate it as, "You were visible", "You have been seen" or "(I) could/was able to see you" , but I'm not going to trust myself (or my JP buddy, for that matter) on this. I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks :)!
GREAT VID'S MAN, TRANSITIVE AND INTRANSITIVE SENSES ARE KIND OF A PAIN...
:o)
Okay, I know this is old by now, and you do have a solid way of explaining verbs as it stands. Active/State works. It's simple and you are teaching (to my understanding) a "field-guy's course"...
For pure linguists (and a few junkies on the subject) there are technical terms like "transitive and intransitive"... So for the sharpest cut and dry I've heard on the subject, first focus on the root word "transit" ~ indicating motion.
Transitive verbs are active verbs that have a Subject-verb-object format in English.
Intransitive verbs are verbs that have a Subject-verb (notice no object) format in English.
It works similarly in Japanese, but the simplest is that an intransitive verb "just happens"... and in Japanese, there's more complexity about that nuance than in English, since English still often uses the same verbs (exactly) in both senses.
I open the door. (transitive) The door opens. (intransitive)
BUT this is the "technical-guy's lesson. It helps virtually nobody else to deliberate the most technical and long-winded explanations. It's what makes the "field-guy's lesson" so much more helpful, relatable, and useful. "Active verbs" and "State verbs" are easily grasped without dictionary, thesaurus, nor Ph.D. in linguistics... So I might suggest (even for future revisions) you put a glossary reference section in the books, where you can cite the intent clearly in your terms (defining "active" as the transitive sense and so forth)... A simple numerical list would allow you a simple enough notation to avoid confusing the linguistical experts while the rest of us can still read and grasp the point readily enough on our own.
If you're interested in where else I've looked to get to this point, you can also check out JapaneseAmmoWithMisa (another YT channel) and she has a video in her "beginner's lessons" series that explains the Japanese technical sense of transitive and intransitive about as well as I've ever seen anyway...
hey george, can I buy your books as e books somewhere?
I have question can someone explain me difference between:
1. Mado ga aku(state, intrasitive) - Window is open
2. Mado wo aketearu - Window is open
I think the second one should be akeru, and means "SOMEONE/SOMETHING opens the window."
marcnut1996 yes aketearu is akeru in te form +aru. And its something between intransitive and pasive form(in my opinion).
1.Doa ga aketearu - door is open(door was open by someone, and now is open )(described state).
2.Doa ga aiteiru - door is open(just state).
3.Doa ga akerareta - door was been open(by someone, and now is open)(described action)
And by explain I mean, where I should use "tearu".
i have never heard of a te-aru form. but i would think mado wo aketeiru means someone is opening the window.
but one thing im also confused is, what would be the difference between usage of aku (intransitive) and akerareru (passive verb form)
marcnut1996 look at this example:
Oyu - hot watter
Waku - boil
Wakasu - I boil something
Tateru - to build something
Tatemono - building, house
Oyu ga waku - the water is boiling (nobody do nothin, but is boiling )
Oyu ga wakasaseru - water is boiled (by someone)
Asoko de tatemono ga taterareru - over there house will by built.
(And you can't use intransitive verb here because the action of "building" can't happen without human intervention).
marcnut1996
i.imgur.com/bzUN1Dg.jpg
I'd rather you stick with transitive/intransitive since I already know them. Now I have to remember what state means.
Way back in school I learned that transitive verbs take an object and intransitive verbs don't take an object. That doesn't help me much in understanding how these verbs work. Your explanation with active/passive or action/state verbs, on the other hand, actually helps me understand how to use them. I also don't think there is much danger of mixing up passive verbs with passive voice.
As chat shows with their mistakes this is exactly why I'm afraid to type in JP chatrooms sometimes. lol
"Shows a little bit of remorse there that school ended" 😂
@japanesefromzero I really hope in the six years since this video was made that you've changed your stance on this because it really does a disservice to your students. Perhaps 30 years ago it made sense to not use words like intransitive, but information is much more accessible today. At 3:00 you say that transitive/intransitive only exist in the context of grammar explanations, but the same is true for verb, noun, adjective, etc. Why do those words get a pass? Why not call nouns "thingy words" and adjectives "describers"? Unless JFZ intends to teach every verb a Japanese student will ever encounter, a student will eventually need to look that word up in a dictionary. Just now I looked up 買う in a dictionary and the first line is "Godan verb with u ending, Transitive verb". It's not just Japanese either, I looked up 'buy' in the Merriam-Webster dictionary and it uses transitive and intransitive. How about Spanish? I looked up 'comprar' in a Spanish dictionary for native speakers and transitivo is used. I don't understand why you think we wouldn't understand "transitive verbs require a direct object, intransitive don't" when we've already covered much more difficult material.
この番組はご覧のスポンサーの提供でお送りします taught me how to say show
Is it a coincidence, that the active form use an "e-form" hiragana before the verbs "u-form" hiragana for the "active" verb and an "a-form" hiragana before the verbs "u-form" hiragana for the "passive" verb for both verbs:
haji-ME-ru --> haji-MA-ru
o-E-ru --> o-WA-ru
Xelthas D - I think it is at minimum a mini pattern. I haven't taken the time to look are more than a few pairs but it does seem possible.
I don't think it's a coincidence at all. other examples are:
a-GE-ru --> a-GA-ru
sa-GE-ru --> sa-GA-ru
BTW George - I think the best way to explain transitive verbs is that the action is being TRANSIT-ted from the subject to an object. The English word 'set' for example. You set things. But you don't sit things. You simply sit. That's why sit is IN-transitive.
Anyway this is quite different from active/passive which is the difference between "You made this video./This video was made (by you)."
Yes... I know............ the problem is TRANSITIVE and INTRANSITIVE are words we ONLY user for Grammar explanations. This means they aren't real life. I have changed the terminology to ACTION and STATE now and that feels easier. I am not a fan of learning a word specifically to describe grammar. I avoid them when possible.
I understand. Regardless, thanks for the amazing video series, George. I'm learning so much from you.
This is risky, not all verbs follow this pattern. For example DE-ru (go out) and DA-su (take something out) break your rule immediately; other verbs simply don't have forms that allow to perceive and "A" - "E" variation, like ugoku (Intransitive, or "State verb" following George's terminology) and ugokasu (Transitive, Action verb). You can actually found other patterns to help you infer whether a verb is T/I, but it gets confusing since it depends on the particular form of that verb (does it end in -ru? -su? -u?) and there would probably still be exceptions.
This is at least what I happened to observe studying Japanese. So I'm no expert, don't get me too seriously.
俺は海賊王になる男だ！
You are not the only one these are the names of groups I have read several Japanese language books and vids on YT some say "active passive" whilst others say "transitive intransitive", I went back into studying because of health issues forced me to stop working I got qualifications in Psychology and sociology and then went to uni and got my degree in social policy and criminology, the social sciences have a language of their own it would have been easier learning klingon
I get why you think he makes things "easier" and if that helps you get the concept great! But, then dump it and learn the correct terms before this guy really, really hurts you. Every subject has "words only created to explain it" but that is literally the point! So you can explain things using common agreed terms, so there is no confusion. Imagine Georgey taught you to drive and didn't like the term "brakes" and thought "stoppers" was clearer on what they did. If you then talked to anybody on the planet that didn't listen to him, about using your stoppers they either wouldn't know what you are talking about, or say "you mean the brakes" and think you were an idiot. Same goes for all the things he tries to convince you because he doesn't like them, you shouldn't use them. But, if you go to any class in school, they use them, go to Japan, they use them, even English uses it (Your English professor will love you it if you know that transitive verbs are verbs that take an object. - that so hard?) His videos are filled with these things you will have to re-learn if you don't throw them away. Stems don't come at the end of words like often uses it, but a suffix does. And a suffix gets stuck on a stem! ichidan and godan is so incomprehensible? First, when you talk to Japanese, that is all they use. ichi-dan = one step, go-dan = 5 steps. ichi moves one step on the hiragana chart, go uses all fives steps. Actually less confusing really AND that is how they are listed in every dictionary. Just because it took him over 2 hours to come up with an "answer" speaks more about his knowledge of language than the problems with explaining it. He talks about Latin underlying english and he is right. So lets look:. Transitive - "Trans" you know that,: transition, translation. Yup going from one "State" to another. Just like you opening a window! Hey, that didn't hurt and might be useful if you didn't know a word like transit. Don't let him fool you - take a moment to learn it correctly.
It's annoying how those LED rings do not line up perfectly with George's eyes.
Hey George, I don't know if you'll ever see this. Also, I'm not sure what level of anal perfectionist you are... but I tend to be like that with videos on my other channel. You have quite a lot of microphone hiss, this is easily fixed using Audacity. And in the older office format, with that light ring, you kind of need to adjust the white balance. Again super easy. In all honesty, these issues don't affect the videos, but they're two small things you could do to up the production level.
Also, if you'd like me to explain how to do these things I'm perfectly happy to do so. All you need is something grey for the white balance, and a free program for the sound.
Did you just write "anal perfectionist"? This has just become my favourite comment on youtube EVER.
Goodmorning and may God bless you all and your family's Thank god for all he has given you and pray for forgiveness though prayer amen.
Can ``いくつ に なった の`` also be used to ask the age?
I admire George for trying to avoid jargon words the best he can. They are terrible for learners and only help people who already have an advanced understanding of the subject, and a lot of the time people just use jargon words to sound smart and to gate keep information from others.
They are transitive and intransitive verbs, not active and intransitive. Active is the opposite of passive.
transitive verb = verb with object
intransitive verb = verb without object
It is extremly simple.
You are smarter than my videos. I wish you well.
@@japanesefromzero So are you now.
The thing I like the most about your videos is that you are just a nice person to listen to like a teacher should be (and that includes me actually, as I am going to be one myself one day). Watching you years after the video came out still feels interactive and engaging. In this video it was the first time I can think of that I had something criticize. You know, everyone is different. More people than you might think understand "active", "passive", "transitive", "intransitive" and will inevitably run into some major misunderstandings.
I am not a hundred percent sure about why you made that reply. It makes me think, you believe that the purpose of my comment was just to brag about knowing the words or even worse to talk down to you.
The intent of my comment was to explain the meaning of the terms transitive and intransitive in the simplest way possible and to show that you don't need a lot of knowledge of linguistics or anything to get it.
It is completely besides the point, when you write "You are smarter than my videos". I take it as a very emotional reaction. The voice you had in your head while reading my original comment must have been the funny impression you pull of every now and then when you talk about people commenting about something you purposely withhold for a later lesson.
@@japanesefromzero Oh, and I forgot to mention, I wish you well too of cours. (That is without any irony btw.)
I feel like you have been living under a rock. The english-japanese dictionnary I used, Rikaichan and Tangorin as well as most texbooks I used always tell you which verb is which. It's really handy since most verbs have transitive and intransitive form （他動詞 自動詞 in japanese）. Thinks about verbs like 集める・集まる、渡す・渡る、終わる・終えるect.
It's actually unfortunate George, because active and passive in theory mean "the thing one does" and "the thing that happens spontaneously". Looks like the people who coined grammatical terms didn't have a good vocabulary.
If I had to give a name to the active and passive voice system I would have named it subjective and objective sentences. It's simple and makes sense.
Subjective and objective make less sense to me since this are related to opinion and not actions.
@@japanesefromzero I am not a grammar teacher😂. I just coined two terms out of the blue.
What I wanted to say was, there can be many more simpler options for these terms like, I don't know, doer based and receiver based.
P. S.
By the way, I have one year before I apply to Tokyo University. I have completed book 2, do you suggest buying book 3 or waiting for revision? I did the same comment on one of your new videos but you didn't reply, so I assumed you didn't see it. Also, please tell me, what level of Kanji will I be needing for the exams?
is still ok if i say like this ?
なんじからばんぐみがはじまりますか
かっこいい眼鏡だよ。
Shame this setup wasn't used it's quite cozy.
I had forgot about this. But the current set up is actually based on this style. There is an 86 inch TV behind me. The main difference is it's not showing the PowerPoint but a shelf instead.
can I say: その関係を終えました！??
I think you can say but like someone ask you about your relation.
and you say:
( ああ！そんな関係を終えました。
Ah! I finished such relationship.)
or
(ああ！そんな関係が終わりました。
Ah! That relationship is over. )
Those glasses tho 👓👓👓
In Hindi me(may) means I
why is it 4K? hahahha
Bangumi ha nanji hajimeru da no?