$700 for a set in excellent condition is a deal. Locally, a guy is selling some with roughly 1/4 of the cabinet missing chunks. It's in need of a new veneer, but he's selling them like they are 9 or 10/10. I've modded and refurbished 3 pairs of forte II. Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and 1% low esr caps for the crossover. Adding internal damping is a must.
Never heard any older Forte’s. Went and demo’d some Forte III a couple of weeks ago and compared them to some Harbeth super hl5 plus. The Harbeth’s blew the Klipsch away big time connected to a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated amp. The Harbeth’s sounded warm and precise. The Klipsch sounded tinny and bright in comparison. I’m buying the Harbeth’s very soon
I got one of these (sadly only one) from Goodwill for 20 bucks. It was beatup, and the radiator had a little hole in it, but the horns still sound glorious. I am listening to music featuring voice or single instruments, and it is delicious.
There is a "Dope from Hope" write up about the ringing of the old metal Klipsch horns and Paul Klipsch states that there is indeed an undesirable resonance from the metal horns, BUT when they get mounted to the motor board it disappears. In other words, there is no need to dampen the driver architecture because being mounted to the wood cabinets already does the same thing. It dampens the metal drivers. The extra weight on the passive makes sense though. I have a pair of Quartets and the best thing I have done to them is replace the old, tired capacitors on the crossovers. With a good source driving them the improvement is considerable.
I did much effort in listening before and after dampening the metal baskets and plastic horns. I did not believe it would help. But I proved myself wrong. I think the dampening is critical to better sound!
so you're basically guessing your way around some pretty nice speakers.. lovely attitude, cheers! the listening room has a great impact on the sound. some room treatment and eq is always preferable to upgrading speakers or amps since is has way bigger impact on reproducing a recording with fidelity. a few years ago I opened a pair like these that had hot glue and all kinds of 'improvements' done to them. worth mentioning was a silicone 'surround reinforcement' on the radiator. not a nice view. without measuring the input vs the output one can't really tell what the speakers need in order to bring them to specs.. based on experience, the most common 'issue' is the ferro-fluid (used to cool and attenuate the horns' coils) gets a little too viscous over the years affecting the high range. sometimes flipping the horns makes an improvement as the ferro is redistributed evenly... but even that is not really an issues depending on the listener's age: most men older than 30 have lost the upper range of the fq spectrum (16kHz) and above the age of 40 we can't really hear anything above 14kHz. perfect natural, nothing to worry about, it just goes to show that 20kHz is not really audible for mature humans :} in over 30 yrs I have yet to find a crossover cap out of specs and yet lots of people replace the caps but fail to secure and seal the cabinets... for whoever in interested, there are quite a few tests to determine the condition of a capacitor, check Mr Carlson's Lab. age itself is not an indication of failure unless we're talking paper/oil/wax. a proper modern cap doubles it's life expectancy for every 10 degrees C drop. so imagine a 85C cap that only reached 35C tops (5000hr x 2 x2 x2 x2 x2 =80k hours of service and that is assuming the ripple current and voltage are at the max allowed limits; that never happens in a crossover, so the effective life is truly long, like 30yrs of not stop playing). also not all caps pass voltage to the transducers. some capacitors (low pass filters for example) dump voltage/fq to the ground, so in essence we don't get to hear what goes thru the cap.. just like the tone control on a guitar: turn it down to 1 and the high frequencies are shorted to the ground so that we don't hear the highs..
My whole career is based on guessing my way around. My whole life really. I was not born knowing and I've got the nuts to try without knowing until I nail it. I've gotten pretty good at guessing over 20 years. These were sealed up inside for sure as well as the gasket where the drivers mount, room is treated. AC is isolated , yadda yadda.... I did not know about the ferrofluid however. Sort of does not matter so much as I dont take Klipsch serious enough to be my front runners. As backup for me they are excellent. The caps are not changed due to fear of out of spec parts. It's due to disdain for cheap component parts and thier plain old sound at the same exact electrical parameter as exotics which to me sound better. I'm at least good enough to know which shunt to ground. Plus I dont want them to sound like stock from the factory, I want them to sound the way I like them to sound. So basically it's a test mule. If I come up with something great, I kit it and sell it. Guys gotta make a living you know. I've got one patent in HiFi working on my second so, I'm not as dense as i look...lol
@@OCDHIFiGuy congrats! nothing compares w/ hands-on experience.. klipsch can sound natural depending on the listening environment; for some reason a trend was created stating that the high fqs are brutal. that's not really a fact, is it? what do you use besides the klipsch? i can't really tell a difference between 2 electric components that measure the same but then again, hearing is more than just air pressure hitting our ears: mood, time of day and all that make an impact. so in a sense exotic caps can in fact make the sound feel nicer... *the gaskets do create buzzing on older speakers as they dry out, depending on the volume of course. i can't recall exactly what fq creates problems on these speakers, somewhere between 100-200Hz @ high volume (mostly noticeable with fq sweeps). **some technicians recommend flipping all the drivers not just the tweeters in older speakers because of suspension considerations... it does make sense logically but i'm not sure how much practical value is there especially if the speakers are not opened for other work too.
@@duroxkilo Yes, you are correct. Practical application. Trial and error. Plug it in and see what happens ..lol. I like planar speakers and/or open baffle type as I like what the reflection of the backwave does insofar as room fill and image size/depth. Mostly planar magnetic as the impulse response of the thin membrane is nearly as quick as real life. So sound takes on a more real feeling to me. The quicker the impulse, the more likely to trigger the Limbic part of the brain which holds our "fight or flight" response. This feels very real because its instinct level. This is a unique experience for music listening. To engage the Limbic brain which brings our attention into the now rather efficiently. So if 2 caps measure exact values it does not tell us if there are micro distortions or not. I'm offering this as an example not saying it's why exotics sometimes sound better. For all I know it could be expectation bias. Usually I will get other peoples opinion without letting them know I've changed anything. But caps... copper foil versus copper flecks sprayed on plastic. Why wouldn't it sound different is a better question in my mind. You mentioned oil filled. That's got to take up vibration I would imagine. Vibration degrades sound we all know... i did not find the horns particularly harsh. If its harsh, I go to crossover first. I also put felt around the horns on the front baffle. Another guess. Chill that reflection for the small wavelengths is my reasoning. Not sure if its applicable. Seemed to work... so yeah, lots of fun for me. Seems like you've got good experience and school most likely ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy the felt around the horns would most likely attenuate the diffraction.. each time a wave (any type of wave) encounters an obstacle (it can be the speaker's edge for example or some furniture) it changes amplitude, direction, sometimes fq, etc.. when it bounces of a surface (reflection), the amplitude is equal or less, fq is the same and the direction changes according to the reflection laws (incidence angle and all that). still, the horns are built in such a way to project the waves forward losing as little energy as possible in other directions. if you look closely at the speakers' front covers, some companies continue the line/angles of the horns with the edge of the covers in an effort to minimize that diffraction.. under certain circumstances some speakers do sound better with the covers on.. i'm specialized in recording, monitoring/mastering equipment and such... still audio but the other side of the street from hi-fi. compared to hi-fi, the pro-audio tends to use less snake oils just because on the emphasis on measurements and calibrations for consistency. the easiest way to achieve consistency is to use measurements; 2dB down at 2500Hz is the same for everyone, compared to hi-fi jargon such as 'a little muddy' or 'muffled vocals', expressions that can mean a lot of things depending on the season :} i have no experience with planars/electrostatics/etc. i have heard and listened to a few and in theory they do have great potential considering the low harmonic distortion compared to the traditional electro-dynamic drivers..
Hi, From the UK. Just gold hold of some mint Forte II s boxed and barely used. You suggested spiking the speakers but I'm wondering if filling the base with sand or something even heavier would be a good idea? Just make a wooden plate to fix onto the base with a seal of some sort and you're done. Thanks for all the info!
Yes, if you can pull that off do sand and then you spike it only if youre on a slab. If youre on a suspended floor then you isolate it from the floor. Sand is a killer idea.
@@stephenparker4735 I mean concrete slab . In other words if the floor is on the ground level with nothing below it. Not even a crawl space. Then the floor wont vibrate. This is when you spike as it couples the speaker to the floor. If the floor can vibrate, then it can potentially vibrate the speaker so in that case. Isolation may be better whereby you decouple the speaker from the floor
Back again. I've replaced the seals on the radiator and driver as you suggested but whilst at it also did the crossover cover mid and tweeter. Was there a reason you didn't suggest doing them? It seems that the would need doing too.
Actually its not Dynamat, its Black Hole Foil by orca design. And if you want to know the insider secret, just type in Butyl foil backed tape into Amazon, same stuff .. it needs to be butyl rubber with aluminum foil stuck to it.
I have enjoyed all your videos. I have a pair of Forte II and want to ask your opinion on how good a pair of Jeff Rowland 201 mono will drive these speakers. I have a Freya tube pre and listen to mostly lossless via my mac mini. Thank you.
after damping the box I took it off. a smaller one may have been OK perhaps, but I like it off, there was a little hot glue left these so that added a tiny bit of weight.. It lost too much bass with the heavy washer..
Please tell Klipsch about the mods. They are good ppl and want feedback which help everybody Personally I’m freaked for the Cornwall but here in Oz it ain’t happening. Dig your vids your crazy man
Pure unadulterated guessing. How many Driver Basket, made beefed-up not to ring? As have written before, if you are older than 13 years old, your Hearing is in Real Decline.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I worked at Klipsch (Hope my home town) back when the Forte II came out. I now mod'd mine much like you have done and removed the base and gotten them off the floor 8 inches. I am so glad to see you giving these classics the respect they deserve. Give me $100K and I would not give up my Forte IIs for anything!
People that have never or are too afraid to try anything should not be commenting on what can and cannot be done..There is always room for improvement on anything. As for another comment about the Klipsch engineers "getting it wrong"..nobody said they got it wrong..just room for improvement..the engineers did not set out to build the ultimate speaker they build what they can within a budget..these guys are just improving and old product.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Just picked up as set yesterday for 450 canadian. Mint condition. They are amazing speakers. Gonna try this and see how they sound.
Man your videos are so sick. i love it bro
$700 for a set in excellent condition is a deal. Locally, a guy is selling some with roughly 1/4 of the cabinet missing chunks. It's in need of a new veneer, but he's selling them like they are 9 or 10/10.
I've modded and refurbished 3 pairs of forte II. Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms and 1% low esr caps for the crossover. Adding internal damping is a must.
Never heard any older Forte’s. Went and demo’d some Forte III a couple of weeks ago and compared them to some Harbeth super hl5 plus. The Harbeth’s blew the Klipsch away big time connected to a Primaluna Dialogue HP integrated amp. The Harbeth’s sounded warm and precise. The Klipsch sounded tinny and bright in comparison. I’m buying the Harbeth’s very soon
Matt H not in the Uk they aren’t. In fact the Forte are £300 more expensive than the standard Harbeth Super hl5 Plus
And few people know how to properly position the Forte to get it to SHINE. Thus most people never know how good they sound, especially for the price.
I got one of these (sadly only one) from Goodwill for 20 bucks. It was beatup, and the radiator had a little hole in it, but the horns still sound glorious. I am listening to music featuring voice or single instruments, and it is delicious.
Hella good deal yo !
There is a "Dope from Hope" write up about the ringing of the old metal Klipsch horns and Paul Klipsch states that there is indeed an undesirable resonance from the metal horns, BUT when they get mounted to the motor board it disappears. In other words, there is no need to dampen the driver architecture because being mounted to the wood cabinets already does the same thing. It dampens the metal drivers. The extra weight on the passive makes sense though. I have a pair of Quartets and the best thing I have done to them is replace the old, tired capacitors on the crossovers. With a good source driving them the improvement is considerable.
I did much effort in listening before and after dampening the metal baskets and plastic horns. I did not believe it would help. But I proved myself wrong. I think the dampening is critical to better sound!
I've got to head over to take a listen...this seems interesting !!
Bring it !! Give me till friday they should be ready
so you're basically guessing your way around some pretty nice speakers.. lovely attitude, cheers!
the listening room has a great impact on the sound. some room treatment and eq is always preferable to upgrading speakers or amps since is has way bigger impact on reproducing a recording with fidelity.
a few years ago I opened a pair like these that had hot glue and all kinds of 'improvements' done to them. worth mentioning was a silicone 'surround reinforcement' on the radiator. not a nice view.
without measuring the input vs the output one can't really tell what the speakers need in order to bring them to specs.. based on experience, the most common 'issue' is the ferro-fluid (used to cool and attenuate the horns' coils) gets a little too viscous over the years affecting the high range. sometimes flipping the horns makes an improvement as the ferro is redistributed evenly... but even that is not really an issues depending on the listener's age: most men older than 30 have lost the upper range of the fq spectrum (16kHz) and above the age of 40 we can't really hear anything above 14kHz. perfect natural, nothing to worry about, it just goes to show that 20kHz is not really audible for mature humans :}
in over 30 yrs I have yet to find a crossover cap out of specs and yet lots of people replace the caps but fail to secure and seal the cabinets... for whoever in interested, there are quite a few tests to determine the condition of a capacitor, check Mr Carlson's Lab. age itself is not an indication of failure unless we're talking paper/oil/wax. a proper modern cap doubles it's life expectancy for every 10 degrees C drop. so imagine a 85C cap that only reached 35C tops (5000hr x 2 x2 x2 x2 x2 =80k hours of service and that is assuming the ripple current and voltage are at the max allowed limits; that never happens in a crossover, so the effective life is truly long, like 30yrs of not stop playing).
also not all caps pass voltage to the transducers. some capacitors (low pass filters for example) dump voltage/fq to the ground, so in essence we don't get to hear what goes thru the cap.. just like the tone control on a guitar: turn it down to 1 and the high frequencies are shorted to the ground so that we don't hear the highs..
My whole career is based on guessing my way around. My whole life really. I was not born knowing and I've got the nuts to try without knowing until I nail it. I've gotten pretty good at guessing over 20 years. These were sealed up inside for sure as well as the gasket where the drivers mount, room is treated. AC is isolated , yadda yadda.... I did not know about the ferrofluid however. Sort of does not matter so much as I dont take Klipsch serious enough to be my front runners. As backup for me they are excellent. The caps are not changed due to fear of out of spec parts. It's due to disdain for cheap component parts and thier plain old sound at the same exact electrical parameter as exotics which to me sound better. I'm at least good enough to know which shunt to ground. Plus I dont want them to sound like stock from the factory, I want them to sound the way I like them to sound. So basically it's a test mule. If I come up with something great, I kit it and sell it. Guys gotta make a living you know. I've got one patent in HiFi working on my second so, I'm not as dense as i look...lol
@@OCDHIFiGuy congrats! nothing compares w/ hands-on experience..
klipsch can sound natural depending on the listening environment; for some reason a trend was created stating that the high fqs are brutal. that's not really a fact, is it? what do you use besides the klipsch?
i can't really tell a difference between 2 electric components that measure the same but then again, hearing is more than just air pressure hitting our ears: mood, time of day and all that make an impact. so in a sense exotic caps can in fact make the sound feel nicer...
*the gaskets do create buzzing on older speakers as they dry out, depending on the volume of course. i can't recall exactly what fq creates problems on these speakers, somewhere between 100-200Hz @ high volume (mostly noticeable with fq sweeps).
**some technicians recommend flipping all the drivers not just the tweeters in older speakers because of suspension considerations... it does make sense logically but i'm not sure how much practical value is there especially if the speakers are not opened for other work too.
@@duroxkilo Yes, you are correct. Practical application. Trial and error. Plug it in and see what happens ..lol. I like planar speakers and/or open baffle type as I like what the reflection of the backwave does insofar as room fill and image size/depth. Mostly planar magnetic as the impulse response of the thin membrane is nearly as quick as real life. So sound takes on a more real feeling to me. The quicker the impulse, the more likely to trigger the Limbic part of the brain which holds our "fight or flight" response. This feels very real because its instinct level. This is a unique experience for music listening. To engage the Limbic brain which brings our attention into the now rather efficiently. So if 2 caps measure exact values it does not tell us if there are micro distortions or not. I'm offering this as an example not saying it's why exotics sometimes sound better. For all I know it could be expectation bias. Usually I will get other peoples opinion without letting them know I've changed anything. But caps... copper foil versus copper flecks sprayed on plastic. Why wouldn't it sound different is a better question in my mind. You mentioned oil filled. That's got to take up vibration I would imagine. Vibration degrades sound we all know... i did not find the horns particularly harsh. If its harsh, I go to crossover first. I also put felt around the horns on the front baffle. Another guess. Chill that reflection for the small wavelengths is my reasoning. Not sure if its applicable. Seemed to work... so yeah, lots of fun for me. Seems like you've got good experience and school most likely ?
@@OCDHIFiGuy the felt around the horns would most likely attenuate the diffraction.. each time a wave (any type of wave) encounters an obstacle (it can be the speaker's edge for example or some furniture) it changes amplitude, direction, sometimes fq, etc.. when it bounces of a surface (reflection), the amplitude is equal or less, fq is the same and the direction changes according to the reflection laws (incidence angle and all that).
still, the horns are built in such a way to project the waves forward losing as little energy as possible in other directions. if you look closely at the speakers' front covers, some companies continue the line/angles of the horns with the edge of the covers in an effort to minimize that diffraction.. under certain circumstances some speakers do sound better with the covers on..
i'm specialized in recording, monitoring/mastering equipment and such... still audio but the other side of the street from hi-fi. compared to hi-fi, the pro-audio tends to use less snake oils just because on the emphasis on measurements and calibrations for consistency. the easiest way to achieve consistency is to use measurements; 2dB down at 2500Hz is the same for everyone, compared to hi-fi jargon such as 'a little muddy' or 'muffled vocals', expressions that can mean a lot of things depending on the season :}
i have no experience with planars/electrostatics/etc. i have heard and listened to a few and in theory they do have great potential considering the low harmonic distortion compared to the traditional electro-dynamic drivers..
Have you ever compared these after the upgrade to the new Forte fours and that's a wood veneer I wish they were solid wood
I got mine for 600$ about 7 years ago and Love them
Hi, From the UK. Just gold hold of some mint Forte II s boxed and barely used. You suggested spiking the speakers but I'm wondering if filling the base with sand or something even heavier would be a good idea? Just make a wooden plate to fix onto the base with a seal of some sort and you're done. Thanks for all the info!
Yes, if you can pull that off do sand and then you spike it only if youre on a slab. If youre on a suspended floor then you isolate it from the floor. Sand is a killer idea.
@@OCDHIFiGuy I'm building a new room and the floorboards are going straight onto a solid base. Is that what you mean by slab? If so I go with spikes?
@@stephenparker4735 I mean concrete slab . In other words if the floor is on the ground level with nothing below it. Not even a crawl space. Then the floor wont vibrate. This is when you spike as it couples the speaker to the floor. If the floor can vibrate, then it can potentially vibrate the speaker so in that case. Isolation may be better whereby you decouple the speaker from the floor
Great advice, it's much appreciated. Love the channel. Cheers, man!
I love the upgrades but hope screw holes aren't loose now when you put things back together!
If you want to get the absolute brst speaker from that era, try the Snell Type IIIA. Peter Snell was a genius designer who we lost way too soon.
Totally Agreed... He designed some Swans for China as well... Great designer..
Great insights and mods. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the feedback Cosmo
Just got a pair of these from a friend….what do I need to know? Need Amp recommendation to maximize their features..thanks!
Back again. I've replaced the seals on the radiator and driver as you suggested but whilst at it also did the crossover cover mid and tweeter. Was there a reason you didn't suggest doing them? It seems that the would need doing too.
hi and thanks for reviewing .can you also seal the magnet holes with dynamat etc?
Bad idea... Its for venting
@@OCDHIFiGuy after 2 years happy with these mods?
@@melmel1584 sure, but i rarely use these speakers.
@@OCDHIFiGuy ok, thank you
its adding weight to the passive radiator btw- no idea how you got the idea to do it to the woofer itself
jesus thats a good price, lowest on audiomart right now is 1500, beaters on ebay for a grand
Crazy..
What are they worth now? I have a chance to buy a pair
Hi, what's the name of the product you use from dynamat? Thx!
Actually its not Dynamat, its Black Hole Foil by orca design. And if you want to know the insider secret, just type in Butyl foil backed tape into Amazon, same stuff .. it needs to be butyl rubber with aluminum foil stuck to it.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Otherwise known as "flashing." Lowes and Home Depot carry it.
Thanks for the info! Had always wanted to find some for a DYI project.
Way late post.... Money For Nothing on Klipsch Heritage speakers is intense for sure! Gonna mod my Chorus 2s real soon. Cheers
Rock on man !
I have enjoyed all your videos. I have a pair of Forte II and want to ask your opinion on how good a pair of Jeff Rowland 201 mono will drive these speakers. I have a Freya tube pre and listen to mostly lossless via my mac mini. Thank you.
The weight on the voice coil can only slow down the response. NOT a good idea.
Cant you tell thats not the VC ? Its a passive driver and you tune it by adding washers to a bolt on back. I damped the frame
Just jumped on Craigslist and found a pair? I wish it was that easy!
Well I'm in ATL. Any big city should have some. Or any musical city like Memphis or Austin or whatev.. keep on looking !
@@OCDHIFiGuy Yeah nothing here in Oklahoma..... : ( The search goes on.
@@OCDHIFiGuy Did the washer on the back of the woofer actually work? I have seen the mod on line but never actually talked to anyone that has done it.
after damping the box I took it off. a smaller one may have been OK perhaps, but I like it off, there was a little hot glue left these so that added a tiny bit of weight.. It lost too much bass with the heavy washer..
@@OCDHIFiGuy Very interesting. Good to know. Thanks!
Please tell Klipsch about the mods. They are good ppl and want feedback which help everybody
Personally I’m freaked for the Cornwall but here in Oz it ain’t happening.
Dig your vids your crazy man
Pure unadulterated guessing.
How many Driver Basket, made beefed-up not to ring?
As have written before, if you are older than 13 years old, your Hearing is in Real Decline.
without guessing there is no adventure. I love high adventure ;-) !
Мне нравится Klispch Forte -2 .Fantastika у моих форте S\N 90058446(7). Год 08\24\90 - 09\11\90.
I understand Klipsch Forte 2 and Fantastika.. thats it... Spasibo !
it's not solid wood...
youre right , my bad...
@@OCDHIFiGuy I worked at Klipsch (Hope my home town) back when the Forte II came out. I now mod'd mine much like you have done and removed the base and gotten them off the floor 8 inches. I am so glad to see you giving these classics the respect they deserve. Give me $100K and I would not give up my Forte IIs for anything!
FIRST! ;p
Putting a pink ribbon on a pig don't make it Miss America.
Youre right but we are not going for miss America here, were going for Good Time Gina. Maybe a little Back Alley Sally.
People that have never or are too afraid to try anything should not be commenting on what can and cannot be done..There is always room for improvement on anything. As for another comment about the Klipsch engineers "getting it wrong"..nobody said they got it wrong..just room for improvement..the engineers did not set out to build the ultimate speaker they build what they can within a budget..these guys are just improving and old product.
Alchemy, like trying to make Gold(Au) ingots from Lead(Pb)..