I love this interview! I find you softening within the interview, Rick, and it is very touching to witness. John seems to be wonderfully embodying the awakening in his life and his sharing is filled with authenticity. Thank you both.
This is a wonderful interview! fantastic questions Rick, to John, one of the most warmest deeply authentic teachers out there! So much appreciation for both of you, thank you so much!
14:43 "What the mind does is it projects its worst fears on this unknown emptiness and openness." I don't think we realize how incredibly significant and enormous are the implications of this simple statement made here by John for the way we live our lives on this planet. Another gem of an interview with this statement as a highlight and jewel for me. Who has not run back into the old fearful thought patterns and projections when faced with the unknown emptiness instead of embracing the angst? This is certainly the story of the West and perhaps the whole planet too. I am moved to check out Kierkegaard again.
As far as I can see things that many of us humans are failing badly at are: 1. Noticing, acknowledging and feeling grateful for what is already here 2. Contentment 3. Knowing that we are not the ultimate chooser and we don't have to be the ultimate chooser 4. How to think 5. How not to think 6. How to live with each other and how to relate to each other - forgiveness, acceptance, resect, love and compassion I think everything else is secondary.
We all have power to think. We have separate physical brains, separate physical senses, different life experiences and different inborn talents, skills and interests. Because of this our perspectives are different and… ...that is a very beautiful thing. Our different perspectives, viewpoints, different thoughts, understanding drawn from different angles help us draw a more complete picture. They help us understand better. They help us see what we missed. It is like seeing at the reality from thousand different set of eyes each looking at it from a different angle. Together we are far greater than each of us. With the right understanding, our disagreements are complimentary and wonderful. But, because of the lack of this understanding and because of lacking in respect, acceptance and kindness, love and compassion for each other, we use these disagreement to hurt others, cause pain, insult others and to even go on war and kill each other. We can’t change this unless we know that our commitment to respect, acceptance, love, kindness and compassion is far more valuable than our love for our opinion, viewpoint and our version of the ultimate truth. Without this basic understanding of our differences being complementary and our love for each other being far more valuable than our love for our ideas we can’t stop doing what we humans have been doing for generations - torturing and killing others because they have different views and inflicting unnecessary suffering on the planet.
Unless one learns to notice, acknowledge and be grateful for what is already here and unless we learn contentment... ...how to bring peace and happiness to a mother who feels terrible because she couldn’t buy the latest batman costume for her child? ...how to bring peace and happiness to the humans who feel terrible because they couldn’t buy the 93rd pair of designer shoes, 56th designer bag, attend Kayne West music concert or attend 52nd party of the year? Unless one learns how to think and how not to think… ….how to bring peace and happiness to the humans who fight bitterly with each other which baseball team is better and feel terrible when their favorite team loses?
Review ===== Teacher: easy going, calm, collected, unassuming, agreeable, well-reasoned, seemed genuine, honest, real and down to earth. Conversation: Good, engaging, interesting. Rick's approach: Rick connected and related well and asked many good and real questions. Message: good, but hardly anything new. Novelty: none. I didn't find anything new. Surprises: none. Core message: embody.
Thanks John and Rick. This was a pretty good interview. At first,I had questions about fairness which was discussed at the end of the interview: ''Fairness is a concept'',John said. But he went on to explain that ''when we act from love it has a much different effect''. Therefore, we can act against unfairness,eg, someone hurting our child. We wouldn't let them do this.This is a big call,but not impossible. That is someone is attacking our wife or child and we try to stop them but do so from a position of love. One would have to be a Jesus figure. But again,not impossible. It reminds me of Krishna urging Arguna to fight because ultimately everything which happens ,happens to Me. Both the perpetrator and his/her victim is Me. To act but have no investment in the fruits of action. If one could do this under the most trying of circumstance is the question. A Jesus could do it,so yes,it is possible.
When I see you as the other I am using my surface logic and reason. When I see you as a part of myself I am using my deep awareness and love ...or... compassion.
Rick's mantra :- As long as you are breathing - you are still "learning to drive". No one is a "perfect" driver. Everyone is a "work in progress". There is never a point when you are "done" learning how to drive. After 35 years of driving, there are still times, when you forget to yield correctly.
"At the University of Chicago, beginning in 1953, Eugene Gendlin did 15 years of research analyzing what made psychotherapy either successful or unsuccessful. . . . Gendlin found that, without exception, the sucessful patient intuitively focuses inside himself on a very subtle and vague internal bodily awareness - or 'felt sense' - which contains information that, if attended to or focused on, holds the key to the resolution of the problems the patient is experiencing" (Wikipedia) "We have found that the Focusing is very Sufi, and the Afghans respond to it with ease. One told me that he had studied Sufism for years but never understood how to get to Presence. Now he knows." The Use of Focusing by Afghan Aid Workers, Patricia Omidian (Consultant for Humanitarian Assistance, pakistan and Afghanistan)
At 0:30 Intro - Sri Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, TM. At 3:00 Sai Baba - really? Dream Awakening at 6:30. Relinquishing control 12:00. Gradual awakening at 16:30. Responsibility of the teacher at 20:00. Honesty at 24:00. Healing at 25:30. Sangha or Satsang experience at 28:30. Ego at 31:00. Addiction to seeking at 35:00. Rick's Dharma at 41:00. Serving others at 51:00. Lack of empathy at 55:00. Meeting with John Klein at 57:30. Adya at 59:30. Is a teacher necessary at 1:01:30. Amma at 1:03:00. Calming the nervous system at 1:07:00. Seeking versus completion at 1:12:00. Examples at 1:17:00. Felt sensing at 1:23:00. Science of attainment at 1:26:00. Knots and contractions at 1:30:00. Importance of love at 1:43:00.
Those who think in terms of existing… ...there is worry of enlightenment… Those who know otherwise… There is only This Moment! To think of existing or not… ...is to wander away from the truth To think of bonage and salvation… to make a grand mountain of error… ...built on the error of assuming I’s existence! ...In a mind free of thoughts… who is left to be enlightened…
Bring the one that wants to be enlightened… Make sure that it is a real thing… ...and, not just a thought in the mind… Eliminate all thoughts… and, bring the one that remains… ...to get enlightened… Bring it when… ...the mind is clean, clear, peaceful and still… Lets see who remains to be enlightened… ...when no thoughts exist…
Under the blanket of dare… You and I disappear… away from all fear, removed from all care… Until we enter… we remain afraid… afraid of the dark, afraid of the death… In knowing… ...we know we are the dark... ...we are the dead… what is seen as life is just movement… Only that is not afraid… ...who knows it to be already dead… Life is but a dream… delicate, fragile hanging by a thin thread… Death is the solid rock… pristine peace and undifferentiated stillness…
The Myth of Perfection :- Are you a "perfect" driver? Probably not. If you learn driving for 35 more years from the best instructors in the world, will you become a "perfect" driver? Probably not. Will you Ever become a "perfect" driver? Probably not. You are a responsible adult. You learn driving. You learn the rules. You pass the driving test and you become a licensed driver and that is it. You remain alert and vigilant, pay attention and do your best to follow rules. You don't need to be perfect. You will never be perfect. You will never reach a point where you are beyond making mistakes. The very quest is erroneous. Why does the spiritual life or just "living life" needs to be any different?
Approaches :- 1. This is IT. This is the Reality. Whether I am enlightened or not is just a thought. Whether I am 100% enlightened, 90% enlightened, 70% or 5% is just a thought. Whether I will be enlightened in future or if was enlightened in past is just a thought. Any such thought takes me away from the Reality of THIS Moment. Whatever takes me Away from the NOW - the reality of this Moment - can't be the correct path. Reality is NOW. Life is Now. 2. People on my forum are about 15% enlightened, most much less. I am 40% enlightened. Ramana was 90% enlightened. Buddha was 95% enlightened. Mahesh Yogi was 80% enlightened. If I meditate for 10 years or if something miraculous happens, I might become as enlightened as Mahesh Yogi. I have to keep trying. 3. Who cares for enlightenment? Life is Now. Lets see what is Real Now. Let us pay full attention to what is Now. Whatever takes me away from this moment - can't be the correct path. Whatever compares me with other human - Adyashanti, Buddha, Ramana, Saddam Hussein, Hitler or Joe - can't be the correct path. The correct path works Now - Pay attention to THIS Moment. This is IT.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Many times we are correct but not complete in our understanding. Understanding(realizing) does not take time. It happens on what I like to call spirit level of being. Thinking takes time. Formulating and presenting takes time. It happens on the soul and body levels. Yes, we search for "enlightenment". That search is something we do with the mind, but it gets done only with no mind. I think you understand that, but can't put it in words because of the language barrier. What I realized is that we actually can not pay attention to anything else but Now. Now is all there is. When you say "Away from the Now" it is a misconception caused by our thinking in words. (we can think visually and or langually) Can you be anywhere but in the Now? I know what you are trying to say, but please try to understand that all thoughts are in the NOW. When you think about past or about something to come, where are you? You are Here and Now. Where are the thoughts and visions but in the Now. Thinking about the past is happening by paying attention to a thought which is developing Now. What I think You are trying to say is that we should not delve in the thought realm, and that we should only pay attention to This physical/energetic Moment. But developing thoughts are also in the Now, as much as the developing physical/energetic changes around and inside our body are. All of that is subject to a change(time). What you call Now is not even a bit more useful (to realizing the timeless) than what you call Not-Now. It's all Now. In my language you are saying: don't pay attention to thought, pay attention to body and what is around it. That will not reveal the spirit, but will calm the mind, eliminate worries and stop the search for the truth (of our existence) Ramana, Buddha, Mahesh, etc have a particular way of approaching the the timeless spirit level of being. Ramana is somewhat different with his "who am i" approach. Their (eastern) techniques are based on eliminating all that is inside the spirit. Physical or mental. You are mostly asked to "meditate" (calm the body until it disappears from the consciousness, and also calm the soul until it disappears) remain "just conscious" and "not conscious of something" , be empty and feel the peace. Be the peace. That's the final thing we search for. Peace. Not the "enlightenment". I meditated. Tried a lot of techniques. Zen, Shivanandas, Moojies etc. Finally came to a moment of "transcending body and soul" There was a moment(s) in my life when I was beyond time, there was no I actually, there was just the Light of awareness. Timeless. Boundless. The moment self consciousness (ego) appeared, time appeared, world appeared. After that it was clear to me that death is not the end of existence. But that realization (of the spirit level of being) did not bring everlasting peace of the mind(soul). It actually brought the belief in someone I thought was just the human idea. So I'am grateful to that "no-experience experience", and all the eastern teachers. So, now for me: The correct path is not a path to nowhere, and it is not a path to no One. The correct path is going to someOne, the only One.
obogatic Have you ever missed an exit while driving because you were thinking something else? Have you ever missed hearing and understanding what someone said because you were thinking of something else? If you have… ...you already know what I mean by not being “here and now”.
obogatic By not being here and now… ...I simply mean that all your current attention is absorbed by going through the memory, projection or any idea, information in your head is not available to the present experience, present sense perception - inner awareness, felt aliveness, breathing, body sensations, sight, sound, space, what is happening inside the body and around right at this moment.
obogatic I don’t blame anyone for not being here and now. We as the society, train, force and condition humans into not being here and now and into being into their head - their memories, ideas and projections. We make them sit in small rooms (known as classroom) for twenty years and make them repeat again and again things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi. Later, we grade them on how well they remember and can repeat things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi. We as the society make sure that every kids understand that it is not at all important or useful to notice the sunshine touching their skin, the tree leaves flickering in the breeze, the softness of the grass under their feet, to hear the river stream, to listen to the bird sing, to marvel at the beauty of the butterfly wings. We make sure that they understand and remember that, it is extremely important that they repeat and remember things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi. We grade them on this. We, as willing parent, join the rest of the society too in constantly reminding kids that paying attention to and repeating what happened in Mississippi 12th January 1737 and what might be asked in the test tomorrow is far more important than paying attention to the blue sky they see right now. We constantly remind them of having to keep thinking about things like these day and night, even when they are sitting in a grass meadow, under the sun and the blue sky. With many years of persistence, enforcement and repeat, most kids learn. They learn what we want them to learn - that it is really important to be in head - it is really important to keep processing information of the past or predicting the future - it is really important to keep repeating things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi or anticipate what might happen in the test tomorrow at 10.00 AM or in the client meeting tomorrow at 11.30 AM. We teach them that the glow of the sunshine, the depth of the blue sky, the softness of the green grass, the beauty of the flying butterfly is just a useless burden and distraction - they are not going to be graded for it - they are not going to be rewarded for it - they are not going to be paid for it - we want them to know that they may not survive if they live that way and the company might not be able to make money. And, our success rate is quite good. For about 90-95% of the humans, we are able to completely remove them from the immediate experience of Now and in making sure that they predominantly stay in their head - processing the information of the past or anticipating what might happen in the future almost all the time - and, we are indeed making money. Few of us do get neurotic and depressed - but, hey that is just the cost of doing business - nobody said it was going to be easy. Who has ever made money by watching the butterfly?
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Of course I've missed an exit while driving, forgot to step out of the bus at the right bus station, I was even once in the situation to go so far following a train of thought, while my friend was talking to me, that i got surprised to see her, she just raised eyebrow and continued talking and I felt stupid. But most of the time I'm either very much present or I have and overlay of some song or being creative while being aware of the senses kind of in the background. The trick is to visualize the things and then create them in the "shared reality" :-) while not being to much away from the "sensory input". But everything has it's time and place. I couldn't agree more on the points you made in the last post. We really do program the kids to spend most of the time in the mental realm and we tell them what they should think about. And we learn all the bullshit unimportant stuff in our schools. But then again it doesn't mean that we should not use those instruments of the mind such as creating and developing ideas and imagining. Everything has it's function and purpose and we do not have those abilities for no reason. We are created to be creative, among other things. We have to learn to use those mental instruments properly. For example: not allowing our mind go where ever the functions such as associations lead. Stop the self enjoying fantasies and stuff like that. Cleaner the soul - lesser the number of those "bad thoughts". Less selfish one gets - more present he becomes.
A *1.0 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.* Good interview with an authentic guest. Two drawbacks: again not rendering of his experiential entry into realization or how the view of phenomena changed as a consequence. Also a slight arrogance regarding the fairness question: what makes him think that the one asking the question wasn't already speaking of an unsettling over the lack of love with which this apparent reality is run, that is with cruelty and not even an intention to be fair. That observation can do pretty much without any merely mental concept of fairness that John questions. So it seems a bit like wanting to evade the question out of this typical therapeutic arrogance which almost always just uses the simple trick of playing rage over the outrageous back to the one who is justly enraged as if he just has a mental rigidity or some neurosis. I want to see what these therapists feel when, say, their daughters are being raped and killed in front of them while they are being tied down and forced to watch. Then come back and tell us about _"oh I am just suffering from a mental concept of fairness"_. I am afraid a huge chunk of the subtracted points are due to the fact that this point is not thoroughly questioned critically in the interview. _About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative +2 to +2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._ *General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
Soteriologe BTW... what are views on fairness? Do you have a consistent way of deciding what is fair and what is not? I think "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is a good enough way. What do you think?
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I think the Golden Rule, as you say, is perfect unless distorted into its opposite. And if there is unfairness towards myself, I would very much want peers to be enraged (and by that I simply mean highly energized into right action) in favor of justice and against the unfairness, tamed by intelligence and reason, of course. So if someone is not enraged intelligently and tamed by reason in the face of unfairness, I do not trust that one or his teaching and I even doubt whether that one belongs in any community whatsoever.
Soteriologe I think a pre-requisite of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" which doesn't seem to clear to everyone is... ..."seeing others same or similar to yourself". Some of the things like slavery and mis-treatments of people with different skin color occurred because people didn't see them as same or similar to themselves. In India, the caste system allowed some of that ill-treatment to happen because many people of the upper caste viewed people from other castes as different and less and thus deserving of a different treatment.
Unafraid, uninformed, unaware… We sleep peacefully in the dark night… You an I… Together and tight… The big hall… ...the empty, the dark.. some are afraid to enter… others are afraid of its sight… Some call it death… ..some call it unawareness… Either way, it is their freight… Only those can enter who dare… to be unborn, to be unaware… You and I enter the dark, empty hall… ...we enter and we disappear… Aloof, away, far-far-far away… unaware, uninformed, not a whisper we do hear… Here, our friends dancing in the dazzling light… ….of the light burning on the walls of the empty hall outside… Too afraid to look... too afraid to enter… ...they say we don’t even exist… ...only they do… ...the lighted and aware… Into this empty disappearing hall... ...even they are dragged… ...but, they call it Death… As long as they live… ...they like to deny… To them… ...the dark doesn't exist... ...it is only Shine… You and I… so peaceful together… ...in the dark of the night… Unaware, uninformed… without any worry or care… Enlightenment, awakening, nirvana, moksha… ...we simply don’t care… It is our vanishing act… ...we just disappear… You and I… ...Unafraid, uninformed, unaware…
I can't find any word, anything, any label to truly describe what I feel when stop thinking. But, I am going to try. Vibrations - yes Energy - yes Movement - yes It seems everywhere and nowhere... It is as if I am awake inside a machine and I am becoming aware of that machine at a very core label - the flow of energy - which seems everywhere... If someone proved that - once I stop thinking and labelling - it is just be body's and brain's electric currents that I am directly aware of - I might have to believe him/her. Maybe, all sensations - sound - sight- smell -touch - and, everything else is indeed electric/energy current and without thoughts we are indeed directly aware of them - moving energy - vibrations... Now, what can I say about the one that is Aware of these Vibrations? I can say nothing... ...but if I try little more... ...it feels like the SPACE or nothingness that contains all these vibrations, all these sensations... ...it is the SPACE or Nothingness is which all these vibrations arise and fall... What can I say about the SPACE? I can say nothing... ...but, then, I ask how does it feel... Sat (Existence) - Chit (Consciousness) - Ananda (Bliss) Sat-Chit-Ananda Satchitananda
It indeed appears to be just Space and Moving, Vibrating Energy... At the deeper level, the science is moving into exactly same direction that spirituality has been... ...and, that Anyone can Directly Know... ...when the attention is not absorbed by thinking... . ...Know, but, not believe... ...because, it is so stunning and unbelievable... ...almost absurd... The Most absurd part is that the Space or Nothingness... ...and... Awareness feels Same... Yes, you can laugh :-)
You and I, will sleep together in the dark of the night, Away from the dazzling Light... We go outside, We dance in the light, but, to sleep, to rest, to be together... ...we prefer the dark, dark night... Pitch black on the inside... Dazzling white on the outside... I know some are afraid of the dark, afraid of the rest, afraid of the death, addicted to dancing, they worship the light, Too afraid of the dark, they never come inside... You and I... rest together in the pitch black of the night... away from the limelight, ...away from any freight... By sleeping we know... ...what sparkles as the dazzling star is completely dark inside... what is coal black burns and shines... Some of us too afraid of the dark and worship only light... You and I lets sleep tight... ...in the dark of the night. We love the Light and, we love the dark, dark, pitch black night... ...no you... ...no I...
5/20/15 It's interesting how many of us imagine ourselves to be 'on a spiritual path' or 'a path of transformation'. And no doubt we are. But for the vast, vast majority of us it all remains firmly in the world of the mind, 'it would be a good idea', as Gandhi said. Imagining that we are so, so spiritual, healthy, evolved, full of light and love. But if this 'journey' ever really got started in earnest, be careful what you pray for, you might just find yourself filled with more rage, hatred, terror, emptiness, meaninglessness, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc., than you had ever dreamed possible. And what do you do, with yourself, your friend, loved one or client, dear 'spiritual psychotherapist', 'spiritual practitioner', 'aspirant', 'lover of God', if this ever happens? Do you rush yourself off to a shrink for 'meds'? Dismiss your client or friend as 'crazy', 'too much trouble', 'she needs more help than I can give'? Repeating the horror of the traumas that this poor soul is now reliving? Please think very, very carefully before you dismiss your 'crazy ass neighbor', or friend or client. They are counting on us to help them through this tough, miserable transformation that we all romanticize.
17:40 to 21:25 fairly easy to have mental awakening, but lifelong process of having it saturate all the way down. Adya's head heart hara. Saniel Bonder--Waking down. Waking up --infinite spacious; waking down saturating mind, heart, hara. Complementative processes, not hierarchical. Charismatic, abusive teachers--haven't waken down.
Are mosquitoes fair? Are we fair to the mosquitoes? Do we treat mosquitoes well? Why is it not important to treat mosquitoes well? Why it is very important and extremely spiritual to treat dogs very well and OK to kill mosquitoes? Why is it good to kill and eat cows, pigs and not OK to kills and eat cats and dogs? I am in favor of treating all animals and all humans kindly, nicely and fairly. I just want to understand on what basis we make that decision - is it at random, is it arbitrary, is it based on reason, is it based on the culture conditioning, gut feeling, personal likes and dislikes or is it based on self-interest?
There seems a contradiction in this notion that the appearance of a teacher at the right time, in a vision or a dream, is divine intelligence at work, and yet an apparent act of abuse of trust by that same teacher is portrayed as human folly, having no place in this divine plan. Why wouldn't the latter also be such a divinely orchestrated event, being integral to the grand scheme of things? Does divine intelligence make mistakes? Is the dream of suffering not also its domain? Seems quite flimsy this trust in the divine.
Dana Lomas Interesting question Dana, and good to hear from you. My shoot-from-the-hip response is that everything is divinely orchestrated, but we always have to use discrimination. For instance, Kristin Kirk had an interesting experience lately in which all sorts of beings were appearing to her during a class, and she was required to discern the true from the false (illusory) ones, as a sort of test. The idea of tests is common in traditional spiritual literature.
Dana Lomas I think we can't absolve ourselves of the need for discrimination and discernment by resorting to the perspective that ultimately, individuality is illusory. Remember the illusory elephant chasing the illusory Shankara up the illusory tree?
Rick Archer The person being but an aspect of the self-perpetuating dream, what could it possibly discern but other aspects? If the apparition actually gets to choose, perhaps best it be gored to death by the illusory elephant and trust the divine duhkha does its work.
Dana Lomas Words and thoughts will not bring you further to the truth. The word "apparition" is a word... In my view, you seem to live in the realms of the mind, without sufficient connection to direct, ineffable experience.
Beautiful interview John and Rick. I saw John present at the Science and Nonduality Conference in 2014. You can view that presentation "Secrets of the Heart" on ruclips.net/video/cUecu5v-X-s/видео.html
'I" am not sure you are understanding 'I Am That" or the teaching of Nisargadatta. One of the things he said is "go to the place where there is no experience." Yet almost all that you speak of is of a psychological nature which is from the realm of knowledge or experience. In fact, all psychological analysis may be based on time or past experiences. Even the "idea" of analyzing dreams may be a kind of exploration into images which are only constructs of the mind. I am not sure that there is any such thing as a conscious or unconscious mind as one is apt to do in psychological theories. Is there such a thing as an open mind? If the mind is living in the world of images as all psychological time is doing, then the mind is never open. "I" am not sure that the mind is opening but dies to itself so that emptiness ins born and then the analyzer disappears. What makes you think that you have to go back and forth into truth before awakening is grounded? 'I" think this is an assumption that you are making and may be a total illusion. You say that this takes time and 'I" notice that this time that you are presuming to exist isa actually an illusion of the mind. This is not a theory for "me" because as "I speak time as as a psychological reality does not exist! This "idea" that awakening is a life long experience seems kind of absurd to me because time is the chief obstacle to its realization!! For "me" there is no conflict and no psychological time that exists. "I" do not even recognize this fragmented world that you are describing. That is your world!! It is certainly not the world that Nisargadatta was describing which is world without experiences or time!! Once you surrender your trust in a so called "teacher' you lose your freedom to a false sense of authority.. Unless you are able to start from zero and go to zero, then you may be deceived. We may have an illusion that we are so called "multidimensional" beings. This seems like fragmentation to me. We are one being manifesting in many bodies. The obstacle may be that you want to hang on to your identity as separate being while trying to see the shortcomings in aspects of this tendency. You may be creating a kind of theory of 'self actualization" which is really a re-stating of various western psychological theories which also graft onto it, ideas about non duality. The separate self may not be capable of honesty because of the delusion of separation inherent in the belief of a separate being. The ego may now see things paradoxically but literally. "I" think you have this backwards. The ego sees things psychologically or literally. It believes in concepts or images. However, that which is awake is capable of seeing paradoxically. That is why the Tao Te Ching is so powerful or the teachings of Jesus. There was actually no psychological teaching that came from these masters and that is why they spoken in paradox. Paradox breaks the chain of psychological assumptions which are always based on time. Unless time and knowledge can come to an end, then there may not be any real awakening among human beings and the only the creation of more illusions. Time must come to a stop. Check out my song "Return to the Source" reverbnation.com/willgainesmusic
One thing "I" wonder about is that you keep talking about "experiences." What is an experience? An experience must be a product of memories. Can this be an actuality if it is only a memory? I wonder if these so called experiences are only images that we like to speak of or analyze and is just another aspect of separation. If we look at individual experiences, we can only look partially and then we re inact those memories as actualities. However if we look from the whole, then time is able to stop and those memories are seen to be what they are, as only images and they can come and go without any identification. There must be something which is not an image which does not come and go and comes from emptiness. If we go there, then none of this psychological analysis may be necessary. I am not sure that the heart can open from a partial understanding of images that we cling to that wound us. It is beautiful to share our love and gratitude but where does this love come from? Is it conditional? Love is conditional if it is felt partially or psychologically. To give up control, it might have to be total surrender which moves completely out of the psychological realm. The individual self must die to all its images and this does not take time!! If one tries to give up control partially it always comes back in a different habit or feeling of lack. Psychological time must come to a stop for love to come into being. Otherwise we keep coming back to a kind of separation that is always divided from what it is seeing. Psychological thought no matter how gentle it might seem and even kind hearted on the surface alway carries a kind of poison because it assumes that there is such a thing as becoming or time to resolve or be complete. It always comes from a place of lack that needs to heal itself. I am not sure you can reconcile what is non duel or whole with psychological understanding. An individual life is not the collective life. An individual always feels lacking in some way. The body goes into a spontaneous state of relaxation only when the self is seen to be an illusion. Once this is seen, emptiness can fill the being and the heart moves in a more vast and spacious way. This cannot be described psychologically because it is that very psychological way of seeing which creates the division in the first place. The analyzer is the analyzed. None of this psychological world that you speak of can exist in the space of now. If you were to try and imagine it in the now, it would not be possible.. Go to the place where there is no time and that is the beginning and also the ending. Start with zero and go to zero and that is where love is. Listen to the song "Return to the Source" reverbnation.com/willgainesmusic
"The updating of the teaching" can only be on the basis of the understanding that there is nothing to the teaching. "All in all.. (it's).. just another Brick in the Wall". And as a matter of fact we can all kick our heels like jolly escaped asses at the prospect of the Internet helping simultaneously to bring about a): the death of the whole of Education (Secular or otherwise) as it has been traditionally understood and b): the understanding that there is ONLY Self-education. One can't help feeling that anyone who has gone to see Sai Baba even for the purposes of shitting in his nose probably needs to be locked up in a Special Hospital. But since this guy (Mr. Prendergast) has spent at any rate large parts of his life 'teaching what he doesn't know' and even now is 'counselling' people (no doubt for hefty remuneration): he has no call to be bemoaning the phenomenon of 'Teachers' abusing their 'Students'. Can't imagine anyone wanting to 'go into his parlour' to encounter this mixture of 'Spiritual Shit' and 'Psychobabble'. But, if anyone there be: whatever you do: don't give him your money!
Buddha and Ramana… ... floating clouds… blocking the view of the clear sky of the mind… The idea of enlightenment, liberation and bondage… ... sand particles in the eyes… ...occluding the vision of the grand mountain
There is no real ..."self-knowledge"... ...there is ..."self-disappearance"... and what is left can't be known... Deep sleep doesn't give you "knowledge"... Losing consciousness doesn't give you "knowledge"... General anesthesia doesn't give you "knowledge"... Coma doesn't give you "knowledge"... At most it lets you know that what you thought as you... ....was just your own imagination/thought/dream...
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I feel that you at TOA, are simply using batgap interviews, simply to advertise & express your groups ideas. Because, Rick & this RUclips Channel are far more successful & widely viewed than your own! Do you feel; left out? a victim? Wishing you had more subscribers & views.
Spiritual Wisdom 4 You I think if I had unlimited power to make my wishes true, by now I might have: 1. Eliminated depression and sadness from everyone's life and might have given everyone complete wisdom of Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Ramana, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Dalai Lama, Katie and Tolle. 2. Made everyone physically and mentally healthy, able and fit. 3. Solved the energy, environment and animal life conservation issues. 4. Made everyone kind, compassionate, forgiving, loving, honest, truthful and vegetarian and made them treat everyone including those of other gender, color, caste, status, income, education, ability with kindness and respect. ...and once that was done.... 5. I would have changed my mind about myself and made myself really, really like me and approve of me. and then... ...6. Changed your mind about myself and made you really, really like me and approve of me. But, it seems to me that I don't really have true unlimited power to make wishes true :-) What to do :-)
I love this interview! I find you softening within the interview, Rick, and it is very touching to witness. John seems to be wonderfully embodying the awakening in his life and his sharing is filled with authenticity. Thank you both.
This is a wonderful interview! fantastic questions Rick, to John, one of the most warmest deeply authentic teachers out there! So much appreciation for both of you, thank you so much!
Enjoying the abundance of richness in the play! :)
The greatest teacher can be Nature. Depends on each individual and their unique individual path ;-)
Anthony Bourdain?!! ;)
Great interview, I really enjoyed this one. Great sincerity and humility! Thank you!
14:43 "What the mind does is it projects its worst fears on this unknown emptiness and openness." I don't think we realize how incredibly significant and enormous are the implications of this simple statement made here by John for the way we live our lives on this planet. Another gem of an interview with this statement as a highlight and jewel for me. Who has not run back into the old fearful thought patterns and projections when faced with the unknown emptiness instead of embracing the angst? This is certainly the story of the West and perhaps the whole planet too. I am moved to check out Kierkegaard again.
As far as I can see things that many of us humans are failing badly at are:
1. Noticing, acknowledging and feeling grateful for what is already here
2. Contentment
3. Knowing that we are not the ultimate chooser and we don't have to be the ultimate chooser
4. How to think
5. How not to think
6. How to live with each other and how to relate to each other - forgiveness, acceptance, resect, love and compassion
I think everything else is secondary.
six times YES!
We all have power to think. We have separate physical brains, separate physical senses, different life experiences and different inborn talents, skills and interests. Because of this our perspectives are different and… ...that is a very beautiful thing. Our different perspectives, viewpoints, different thoughts, understanding drawn from different angles help us draw a more complete picture. They help us understand better. They help us see what we missed. It is like seeing at the reality from thousand different set of eyes each looking at it from a different angle.
Together we are far greater than each of us. With the right understanding, our disagreements are complimentary and wonderful. But, because of the lack of this understanding and because of lacking in respect, acceptance and kindness, love and compassion for each other, we use these disagreement to hurt others, cause pain, insult others and to even go on war and kill each other.
We can’t change this unless we know that our commitment to respect, acceptance, love, kindness and compassion is far more valuable than our love for our opinion, viewpoint and our version of the ultimate truth.
Without this basic understanding of our differences being complementary and our love for each other being far more valuable than our love for our ideas we can’t stop doing what we humans have been doing for generations - torturing and killing others because they have different views and inflicting unnecessary suffering on the planet.
Unless one learns to notice, acknowledge and be grateful for what is already here and unless we learn contentment...
...how to bring peace and happiness to a mother who feels terrible because she couldn’t buy the latest batman costume for her child?
...how to bring peace and happiness to the humans who feel terrible because they couldn’t buy the 93rd pair of designer shoes, 56th designer bag, attend Kayne West music concert or attend 52nd party of the year?
Unless one learns how to think and how not to think…
….how to bring peace and happiness to the humans who fight bitterly with each other which baseball team is better and feel terrible when their favorite team loses?
Review
=====
Teacher: easy going, calm, collected, unassuming, agreeable, well-reasoned, seemed genuine, honest, real and down to earth.
Conversation: Good, engaging, interesting.
Rick's approach: Rick connected and related well and asked many good and real questions.
Message: good, but hardly anything new.
Novelty: none. I didn't find anything new.
Surprises: none.
Core message: embody.
Thanks John and Rick. This was a pretty good interview.
At first,I had questions about fairness which was discussed at the end of the interview: ''Fairness is a concept'',John said. But he went on to explain that ''when we act from love it has a much different effect''. Therefore, we can act against unfairness,eg, someone hurting our child. We wouldn't let them do this.This is a big call,but not impossible. That is someone is attacking our wife or child and we try to stop them but do so from a position of love. One would have to be a Jesus figure. But again,not impossible.
It reminds me of Krishna urging Arguna to fight because ultimately everything which happens ,happens to Me. Both the perpetrator and his/her victim is Me. To act but have no investment in the fruits of action.
If one could do this under the most trying of circumstance is the question. A Jesus could do it,so yes,it is possible.
When I see you as the other I am using my surface logic and reason. When I see you as a part of myself I am using my deep awareness and love ...or... compassion.
Rick's mantra :- As long as you are breathing - you are still "learning to drive". No one is a "perfect" driver. Everyone is a "work in progress". There is never a point when you are "done" learning how to drive. After 35 years of driving, there are still times, when you forget to yield correctly.
Reality is Now. Life is Now. Problems are in the past and future. When you bring past and future into now, you make the problems real.
"At the University of Chicago, beginning in 1953, Eugene Gendlin did 15 years of research analyzing what made psychotherapy either successful or unsuccessful. . . . Gendlin found that, without exception, the sucessful patient intuitively focuses inside himself on a very subtle and vague internal bodily awareness - or 'felt sense' - which contains information that, if attended to or focused on, holds the key to the resolution of the problems the patient is experiencing" (Wikipedia)
"We have found that the Focusing is very Sufi, and the Afghans respond to it with ease. One told me that he had studied Sufism for years but never understood how to get to Presence. Now he knows."
The Use of Focusing by Afghan Aid Workers, Patricia Omidian (Consultant for Humanitarian Assistance, pakistan and Afghanistan)
At 0:30 Intro - Sri Maharshi Mahesh Yogi, TM. At 3:00 Sai Baba - really? Dream Awakening at 6:30. Relinquishing control 12:00. Gradual awakening at 16:30. Responsibility of the teacher at 20:00. Honesty at 24:00. Healing at 25:30. Sangha or Satsang experience at 28:30. Ego at 31:00. Addiction to seeking at 35:00. Rick's Dharma at 41:00. Serving others at 51:00. Lack of empathy at 55:00. Meeting with John Klein at 57:30. Adya at 59:30. Is a teacher necessary at 1:01:30. Amma at 1:03:00. Calming the nervous system at 1:07:00.
Seeking versus completion at 1:12:00. Examples at 1:17:00. Felt sensing at 1:23:00. Science of attainment at 1:26:00. Knots and contractions at 1:30:00. Importance of love at 1:43:00.
Those who think in terms of existing…
...there is worry of enlightenment…
Those who know otherwise…
There is only This Moment!
To think of existing or not…
...is to wander away from the truth
To think of bonage and salvation…
to make a grand mountain of error…
...built on the error of assuming I’s existence!
...In a mind free of thoughts…
who is left to be enlightened…
Bring the one that wants to be enlightened…
Make sure that it is a real thing…
...and, not just a thought in the mind…
Eliminate all thoughts…
and, bring the one that remains…
...to get enlightened…
Bring it when…
...the mind is clean, clear, peaceful and still…
Lets see who remains to be enlightened…
...when no thoughts exist…
Under the blanket of dare…
You and I disappear…
away from all fear, removed from all care…
Until we enter…
we remain afraid…
afraid of the dark, afraid of the death…
In knowing…
...we know we are the dark... ...we are the dead…
what is seen as life is just movement…
Only that is not afraid…
...who knows it to be already dead…
Life is but a dream…
delicate, fragile hanging by a thin thread…
Death is the solid rock…
pristine peace and undifferentiated stillness…
What do you know about seeing after you close your eyes?
The Myth of Perfection :- Are you a "perfect" driver? Probably not. If you learn driving for 35 more years from the best instructors in the world, will you become a "perfect" driver? Probably not. Will you Ever become a "perfect" driver? Probably not.
You are a responsible adult. You learn driving. You learn the rules. You pass the driving test and you become a licensed driver and that is it. You remain alert and vigilant, pay attention and do your best to follow rules. You don't need to be perfect.
You will never be perfect. You will never reach a point where you are beyond making mistakes. The very quest is erroneous.
Why does the spiritual life or just "living life" needs to be any different?
Approaches :- 1. This is IT. This is the Reality. Whether I am enlightened or not is just a thought. Whether I am 100% enlightened, 90% enlightened, 70% or 5% is just a thought. Whether I will be enlightened in future or if was enlightened in past is just a thought. Any such thought takes me away from the Reality of THIS Moment. Whatever takes me Away from the NOW - the reality of this Moment - can't be the correct path. Reality is NOW. Life is Now.
2. People on my forum are about 15% enlightened, most much less. I am 40% enlightened. Ramana was 90% enlightened. Buddha was 95% enlightened. Mahesh Yogi was 80% enlightened. If I meditate for 10 years or if something miraculous happens, I might become as enlightened as Mahesh Yogi. I have to keep trying.
3. Who cares for enlightenment? Life is Now. Lets see what is Real Now. Let us pay full attention to what is Now.
Whatever takes me away from this moment - can't be the correct path. Whatever compares me with other human - Adyashanti, Buddha, Ramana, Saddam Hussein, Hitler or Joe - can't be the correct path.
The correct path works Now - Pay attention to THIS Moment. This is IT.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Many times we are correct but not complete in our understanding.
Understanding(realizing) does not take time. It happens on what I like to call spirit level of being.
Thinking takes time. Formulating and presenting takes time. It happens on the soul and body levels.
Yes, we search for "enlightenment". That search is something we do with the mind, but it gets done only with no mind.
I think you understand that, but can't put it in words because of the language barrier.
What I realized is that we actually can not pay attention to anything else but Now.
Now is all there is. When you say "Away from the Now" it is a misconception caused by our thinking in words. (we can think visually and or langually)
Can you be anywhere but in the Now? I know what you are trying to say, but please try to understand that all thoughts are in the NOW.
When you think about past or about something to come, where are you? You are Here and Now.
Where are the thoughts and visions but in the Now. Thinking about the past is happening by paying attention to a thought which is developing Now.
What I think You are trying to say is that we should not delve in the thought realm, and that we should only pay attention to This physical/energetic Moment.
But developing thoughts are also in the Now, as much as the developing physical/energetic changes around and inside our body are.
All of that is subject to a change(time).
What you call Now is not even a bit more useful (to realizing the timeless) than what you call Not-Now.
It's all Now.
In my language you are saying: don't pay attention to thought, pay attention to body and what is around it.
That will not reveal the spirit, but will calm the mind, eliminate worries and stop the search for the truth (of our existence)
Ramana, Buddha, Mahesh, etc have a particular way of approaching the the timeless spirit level of being. Ramana is somewhat different with his "who am i" approach.
Their (eastern) techniques are based on eliminating all that is inside the spirit. Physical or mental.
You are mostly asked to "meditate" (calm the body until it disappears from the consciousness, and also calm the soul until it disappears)
remain "just conscious" and "not conscious of something" , be empty and feel the peace. Be the peace.
That's the final thing we search for. Peace. Not the "enlightenment".
I meditated. Tried a lot of techniques. Zen, Shivanandas, Moojies etc. Finally came to a moment of "transcending body and soul"
There was a moment(s) in my life when I was beyond time, there was no I actually, there was just the Light of awareness. Timeless. Boundless.
The moment self consciousness (ego) appeared, time appeared, world appeared. After that it was clear to me that death is not the end of existence.
But that realization (of the spirit level of being) did not bring everlasting peace of the mind(soul).
It actually brought the belief in someone I thought was just the human idea. So I'am grateful to that "no-experience experience", and all the eastern teachers.
So, now for me:
The correct path is not a path to nowhere, and it is not a path to no One.
The correct path is going to someOne, the only One.
obogatic Have you ever missed an exit while driving because you were thinking something else? Have you ever missed hearing and understanding what someone said because you were thinking of something else?
If you have… ...you already know what I mean by not being “here and now”.
obogatic By not being here and now… ...I simply mean that all your current attention is absorbed by going through the memory, projection or any idea, information in your head is not available to the present experience, present sense perception - inner awareness, felt aliveness, breathing, body sensations, sight, sound, space, what is happening inside the body and around right at this moment.
obogatic I don’t blame anyone for not being here and now. We as the society, train, force and condition humans into not being here and now and into being into their head - their memories, ideas and projections.
We make them sit in small rooms (known as classroom) for twenty years and make them repeat again and again things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi. Later, we grade them on how well they remember and can repeat things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi.
We as the society make sure that every kids understand that it is not at all important or useful to notice the sunshine touching their skin, the tree leaves flickering in the breeze, the softness of the grass under their feet, to hear the river stream, to listen to the bird sing, to marvel at the beauty of the butterfly wings. We make sure that they understand and remember that, it is extremely important that they repeat and remember things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi. We grade them on this.
We, as willing parent, join the rest of the society too in constantly reminding kids that paying attention to and repeating what happened in Mississippi 12th January 1737 and what might be asked in the test tomorrow is far more important than paying attention to the blue sky they see right now. We constantly remind them of having to keep thinking about things like these day and night, even when they are sitting in a grass meadow, under the sun and the blue sky.
With many years of persistence, enforcement and repeat, most kids learn. They learn what we want them to learn - that it is really important to be in head - it is really important to keep processing information of the past or predicting the future - it is really important to keep repeating things like what happened on 12th January 1737 in Mississippi or anticipate what might happen in the test tomorrow at 10.00 AM or in the client meeting tomorrow at 11.30 AM.
We teach them that the glow of the sunshine, the depth of the blue sky, the softness of the green grass, the beauty of the flying butterfly is just a useless burden and distraction - they are not going to be graded for it - they are not going to be rewarded for it - they are not going to be paid for it - we want them to know that they may not survive if they live that way and the company might not be able to make money.
And, our success rate is quite good. For about 90-95% of the humans, we are able to completely remove them from the immediate experience of Now and in making sure that they predominantly stay in their head - processing the information of the past or anticipating what might happen in the future almost all the time - and, we are indeed making money. Few of us do get neurotic and depressed - but, hey that is just the cost of doing business - nobody said it was going to be easy.
Who has ever made money by watching the butterfly?
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Of course I've missed an exit while driving, forgot to step out of the bus at the right bus station, I was even once in the situation to go so far following a train of thought, while my friend was talking to me, that i got surprised to see her, she just raised eyebrow and continued talking and I felt stupid. But most of the time I'm either very much present or I have and overlay of some song or being creative while being aware of the senses kind of in the background.
The trick is to visualize the things and then create them in the "shared reality" :-) while not being to much away from the "sensory input".
But everything has it's time and place.
I couldn't agree more on the points you made in the last post. We really do program the kids to spend most of the time in the mental realm and we tell them what they should think about. And we learn all the bullshit unimportant stuff in our schools.
But then again it doesn't mean that we should not use those instruments of the mind such as creating and developing ideas and imagining.
Everything has it's function and purpose and we do not have those abilities for no reason.
We are created to be creative, among other things.
We have to learn to use those mental instruments properly. For example: not allowing our mind go where ever the functions such as associations lead.
Stop the self enjoying fantasies and stuff like that.
Cleaner the soul - lesser the number of those "bad thoughts".
Less selfish one gets - more present he becomes.
A *1.0 on the new -3 to +3 scale. Disclaimers at the end of the comment.*
Good interview with an authentic guest. Two drawbacks: again not rendering of his experiential entry into realization or how the view of phenomena changed as a consequence. Also a slight arrogance regarding the fairness question: what makes him think that the one asking the question wasn't already speaking of an unsettling over the lack of love with which this apparent reality is run, that is with cruelty and not even an intention to be fair. That observation can do pretty much without any merely mental concept of fairness that John questions. So it seems a bit like wanting to evade the question out of this typical therapeutic arrogance which almost always just uses the simple trick of playing rage over the outrageous back to the one who is justly enraged as if he just has a mental rigidity or some neurosis. I want to see what these therapists feel when, say, their daughters are being raped and killed in front of them while they are being tied down and forced to watch. Then come back and tell us about _"oh I am just suffering from a mental concept of fairness"_. I am afraid a huge chunk of the subtracted points are due to the fact that this point is not thoroughly questioned critically in the interview.
_About the rating: anything below and including 0 means by and large a waste of time, and anything below 0 is not only worthless but damaging to the world. For comparison, on that scale, Francis Bennett would be a +2 or more and Harri Aalto would be roughly a tentative +2 to +2.5. Not coming up with original, independent cosmological insights bans any interviewee from > 2.0 ratings as a matter of principle._
*General Disclaimer:* the rating _pertains to an interview, not to the interviewee_. If the rating is high it means merely and exclusively that I consider the interview to be of high value relative to the stated purpose of the channel, and that it is therefore no waste of time to listen to the interview. It would _not_ imply that whatever the interviewee speaks is the truth (as if I was the arbiter over that) or that you should follow him/her or accept whatever that person offers. _That is particularly in need of emphasis if that would be an expensive enterprise_ !
Soteriologe Very well said, Sir! And, very Bold, Very Frank and very Courageous!
Soteriologe
BTW... what are views on fairness? Do you have a consistent way of deciding what is fair and what is not?
I think "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is a good enough way.
What do you think?
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I think the Golden Rule, as you say, is perfect unless distorted into its opposite. And if there is unfairness towards myself, I would very much want peers to be enraged (and by that I simply mean highly energized into right action) in favor of justice and against the unfairness, tamed by intelligence and reason, of course. So if someone is not enraged intelligently and tamed by reason in the face of unfairness, I do not trust that one or his teaching and I even doubt whether that one belongs in any community whatsoever.
Soteriologe I think a pre-requisite of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" which doesn't seem to clear to everyone is... ..."seeing others same or similar to yourself".
Some of the things like slavery and mis-treatments of people with different skin color occurred because people didn't see them as same or similar to themselves.
In India, the caste system allowed some of that ill-treatment to happen because many people of the upper caste viewed people from other castes as different and less and thus deserving of a different treatment.
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) the other is one self. We treat others as ourselves because he/she is ourself.
Who other than the ego can learn, practice, master, remember and follow the Dharma?
Unafraid, uninformed, unaware…
We sleep peacefully in the dark night…
You an I…
Together and tight…
The big hall…
...the empty, the dark..
some are afraid to enter…
others are afraid of its sight…
Some call it death…
..some call it unawareness…
Either way, it is their freight…
Only those can enter who dare…
to be unborn, to be unaware…
You and I enter the dark, empty hall…
...we enter and we disappear…
Aloof, away, far-far-far away…
unaware, uninformed, not a whisper we do hear…
Here, our friends dancing in the dazzling light…
….of the light burning on the walls of the empty hall outside…
Too afraid to look... too afraid to enter…
...they say we don’t even exist… ...only they do… ...the lighted and aware…
Into this empty disappearing hall...
...even they are dragged…
...but, they call it Death…
As long as they live…
...they like to deny…
To them…
...the dark doesn't exist... ...it is only Shine…
You and I…
so peaceful together… ...in the dark of the night…
Unaware, uninformed…
without any worry or care…
Enlightenment, awakening, nirvana, moksha…
...we simply don’t care…
It is our vanishing act… ...we just disappear…
You and I…
...Unafraid, uninformed, unaware…
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) Wonderful poem! Is it share-able?
Yes, of course David!
I can't find any word, anything, any label to truly describe what I feel when stop thinking. But, I am going to try.
Vibrations - yes
Energy - yes
Movement - yes
It seems everywhere and nowhere...
It is as if I am awake inside a machine and I am becoming aware of that machine at a very core label - the flow of energy - which seems everywhere...
If someone proved that - once I stop thinking and labelling - it is just be body's and brain's electric currents that I am directly aware of - I might have to believe him/her.
Maybe, all sensations - sound - sight- smell -touch - and, everything else is indeed electric/energy current and without thoughts we are indeed directly aware of them - moving energy - vibrations...
Now, what can I say about the one that is Aware of these Vibrations?
I can say nothing... ...but if I try little more...
...it feels like the SPACE or nothingness that contains all these vibrations, all these sensations... ...it is the SPACE or Nothingness is which all these vibrations arise and fall...
What can I say about the SPACE?
I can say nothing... ...but, then, I ask how does it feel...
Sat (Existence) - Chit (Consciousness) - Ananda (Bliss)
Sat-Chit-Ananda
Satchitananda
It indeed appears to be just Space and Moving, Vibrating Energy...
At the deeper level, the science is moving into exactly same direction that spirituality has been... ...and, that Anyone can Directly Know... ...when the attention is not absorbed by thinking... .
...Know, but, not believe... ...because, it is so stunning and unbelievable... ...almost absurd...
The Most absurd part is that the Space or Nothingness... ...and... Awareness feels Same...
Yes, you can laugh :-)
You and I,
will sleep together in the dark of the night,
Away from the dazzling Light...
We go outside,
We dance in the light,
but, to sleep, to rest, to be together... ...we prefer the dark, dark night...
Pitch black on the inside...
Dazzling white on the outside...
I know some are afraid of the dark,
afraid of the rest,
afraid of the death,
addicted to dancing, they worship the light,
Too afraid of the dark, they never come inside...
You and I...
rest together in the pitch black of the night...
away from the limelight,
...away from any freight...
By sleeping we know...
...what sparkles as the dazzling star is completely dark inside...
what is coal black burns and shines...
Some of us too afraid of the dark and worship only light...
You and I lets sleep tight... ...in the dark of the night.
We love the Light
and, we love the dark, dark, pitch black night... ...no you... ...no I...
5/20/15
It's interesting how many of us imagine ourselves to be 'on a spiritual path' or 'a path of transformation'. And no doubt we are. But for the vast, vast majority of us it all remains firmly in the world of the mind, 'it would be a good idea', as Gandhi said. Imagining that we are so, so spiritual, healthy, evolved, full of light and love. But if this 'journey' ever really got started in earnest, be careful what you pray for, you might just find yourself filled with more rage, hatred, terror, emptiness, meaninglessness, depression, suicidal thoughts, etc., than you had ever dreamed possible. And what do you do, with yourself, your friend, loved one or client, dear 'spiritual psychotherapist', 'spiritual practitioner', 'aspirant', 'lover of God', if this ever happens? Do you rush yourself off to a shrink for 'meds'? Dismiss your client or friend as 'crazy', 'too much trouble', 'she needs more help than I can give'? Repeating the horror of the traumas that this poor soul is now reliving? Please think very, very carefully before you dismiss your 'crazy ass neighbor', or friend or client. They are counting on us to help them through this tough, miserable transformation that we all romanticize.
17:40 to 21:25 fairly easy to have mental awakening, but lifelong process of having it saturate all the way down. Adya's head heart hara. Saniel Bonder--Waking down. Waking up --infinite spacious; waking down saturating mind, heart, hara. Complementative processes, not hierarchical. Charismatic, abusive teachers--haven't waken down.
Are mosquitoes fair? Are we fair to the mosquitoes? Do we treat mosquitoes well? Why is it not important to treat mosquitoes well? Why it is very important and extremely spiritual to treat dogs very well and OK to kill mosquitoes? Why is it good to kill and eat cows, pigs and not OK to kills and eat cats and dogs?
I am in favor of treating all animals and all humans kindly, nicely and fairly. I just want to understand on what basis we make that decision - is it at random, is it arbitrary, is it based on reason, is it based on the culture conditioning, gut feeling, personal likes and dislikes or is it based on self-interest?
There seems a contradiction in this notion that the appearance of a teacher at the right time, in a vision or a dream, is divine intelligence at work, and yet an apparent act of abuse of trust by that same teacher is portrayed as human folly, having no place in this divine plan. Why wouldn't the latter also be such a divinely orchestrated event, being integral to the grand scheme of things? Does divine intelligence make mistakes? Is the dream of suffering not also its domain? Seems quite flimsy this trust in the divine.
Dana Lomas Interesting question Dana, and good to hear from you. My shoot-from-the-hip response is that everything is divinely orchestrated, but we always have to use discrimination. For instance, Kristin Kirk had an interesting experience lately in which all sorts of beings were appearing to her during a class, and she was required to discern the true from the false (illusory) ones, as a sort of test. The idea of tests is common in traditional spiritual literature.
Rick Archer Well, since the Kristin to whom such apparitions appear is itself an apparition, it could be said she failed the test. ;-)
Dana Lomas I think we can't absolve ourselves of the need for discrimination and discernment by resorting to the perspective that ultimately, individuality is illusory. Remember the illusory elephant chasing the illusory Shankara up the illusory tree?
Rick Archer The person being but an aspect of the self-perpetuating dream, what could it possibly discern but other aspects? If the apparition actually gets to choose, perhaps best it be gored to death by the illusory elephant and trust the divine duhkha does its work.
Dana Lomas Words and thoughts will not bring you further to the truth. The word "apparition" is a word...
In my view, you seem to live in the realms of the mind, without sufficient connection to direct, ineffable experience.
Beautiful interview John and Rick. I saw John present at the Science and Nonduality Conference in 2014. You can view that presentation "Secrets of the Heart" on ruclips.net/video/cUecu5v-X-s/видео.html
'I" am not sure you are understanding 'I Am That" or the teaching of Nisargadatta. One of the things he said is "go to the place where there is no experience." Yet almost all that you speak of is of a psychological nature which is from the realm of knowledge or experience. In fact, all psychological analysis may be based on time or past experiences. Even the "idea" of analyzing dreams may be a kind of exploration into images which are only constructs of the mind. I am not sure that there is any such thing as a conscious or unconscious mind as one is apt to do in psychological theories. Is there such a thing as an open mind? If the mind is living in the world of images as all psychological time is doing, then the mind is never open. "I" am not sure that the mind is opening but dies to itself so that emptiness ins born and then the analyzer disappears. What makes you think that you have to go back and forth into truth before awakening is grounded? 'I" think this is an assumption that you are making and may be a total illusion. You say that this takes time and 'I" notice that this time that you are presuming to exist isa actually an illusion of the mind. This is not a theory for "me" because as "I speak time as as a psychological reality does not exist! This "idea" that awakening is a life long experience seems kind of absurd to me because time is the chief obstacle to its realization!! For "me" there is no conflict and no psychological time that exists. "I" do not even recognize this fragmented world that you are describing. That is your world!! It is certainly not the world that Nisargadatta was describing which is world without experiences or time!! Once you surrender your trust in a so called "teacher' you lose your freedom to a false sense of authority.. Unless you are able to start from zero and go to zero, then you may be deceived. We may have an illusion that we are so called "multidimensional" beings. This seems like fragmentation to me. We are one being manifesting in many bodies. The obstacle may be that you want to hang on to your identity as separate being while trying to see the shortcomings in aspects of this tendency. You may be creating a kind of theory of 'self actualization" which is really a re-stating of various western psychological theories which also graft onto it, ideas about non duality. The separate self may not be capable of honesty because of the delusion of separation inherent in the belief of a separate being. The ego may now see things paradoxically but literally. "I" think you have this backwards. The ego sees things psychologically or literally. It believes in concepts or images. However, that which is awake is capable of seeing paradoxically. That is why the Tao Te Ching is so powerful or the teachings of Jesus. There was actually no psychological teaching that came from these masters and that is why they spoken in paradox. Paradox breaks the chain of psychological assumptions which are always based on time. Unless time and knowledge can come to an end, then there may not be any real awakening among human beings and the only the creation of more illusions. Time must come to a stop. Check out my song
"Return to the Source" reverbnation.com/willgainesmusic
One thing "I" wonder about is that you keep talking about "experiences." What is an experience? An experience must be a product of memories. Can this be an actuality if it is only a memory? I wonder if these so called experiences are only images that we like to speak of or analyze and is just another aspect of separation. If we look at individual experiences, we can only look partially and then we re inact those memories as actualities. However if we look from the whole, then time is able to stop and those memories are seen to be what they are, as only images and they can come and go without any identification. There must be something which is not an image which does not come and go and comes from emptiness. If we go there, then none of this psychological analysis may be necessary. I am not sure that the heart can open from a partial understanding of images that we cling to that wound us. It is beautiful to share our love and gratitude but where does this love come from? Is it conditional? Love is conditional if it is felt partially or psychologically. To give up control, it might have to be total surrender which moves completely out of the psychological realm. The individual self must die to all its images and this does not take time!! If one tries to give up control partially it always comes back in a different habit or feeling of lack. Psychological time must come to a stop for love to come into being. Otherwise we keep coming back to a kind of separation that is always divided from what it is seeing. Psychological thought no matter how gentle it might seem and even kind hearted on the surface alway carries a kind of poison because it assumes that there is such a thing as becoming or time to resolve or be complete. It always comes from a place of lack that needs to heal itself. I am not sure you can reconcile what is non duel or whole with psychological understanding. An individual life is not the collective life. An individual always feels lacking in some way. The body goes into a spontaneous state of relaxation only when the self is seen to be an illusion. Once this is seen, emptiness can fill the being and the heart moves in a more vast and spacious way. This cannot be described psychologically because it is that very psychological way of seeing which creates the division in the first place. The analyzer is the analyzed. None of this psychological world that you speak of can exist in the space of now. If you were to try and imagine it in the now, it would not be possible.. Go to the place where there is no time and that is the beginning and also the ending. Start with zero and go to zero and that is where love is. Listen to the song "Return to the Source" reverbnation.com/willgainesmusic
"The updating of the teaching" can only be on the basis of the understanding that there is nothing to the teaching. "All in all.. (it's).. just another Brick in the Wall".
And as a matter of fact we can all kick our heels like jolly escaped asses at the prospect of the Internet helping simultaneously to bring about a): the death of the whole of Education (Secular or otherwise) as it has been traditionally understood and b): the understanding that there is ONLY Self-education.
One can't help feeling that anyone who has gone to see Sai Baba even for the purposes of shitting in his nose probably needs to be locked up in a Special Hospital.
But since this guy (Mr. Prendergast) has spent at any rate large parts of his life 'teaching what he doesn't know' and even now is 'counselling' people (no doubt for hefty remuneration): he has no call to be bemoaning the phenomenon of 'Teachers' abusing their 'Students'.
Can't imagine anyone wanting to 'go into his parlour' to encounter this mixture of 'Spiritual Shit' and 'Psychobabble'. But, if anyone there be: whatever you do: don't give him your money!
Buddha and Ramana…
... floating clouds…
blocking the view of the clear sky of the mind…
The idea of enlightenment, liberation and bondage…
... sand particles in the eyes…
...occluding the vision of the grand mountain
There is no real ..."self-knowledge"... ...there is ..."self-disappearance"... and what is left can't be known...
Deep sleep doesn't give you "knowledge"...
Losing consciousness doesn't give you "knowledge"...
General anesthesia doesn't give you "knowledge"...
Coma doesn't give you "knowledge"...
At most it lets you know that what you thought as you... ....was just your own imagination/thought/dream...
TOA (Transmission of Awakening) I feel that you at TOA, are simply using batgap interviews, simply to advertise & express your groups ideas.
Because, Rick & this RUclips Channel are far more successful & widely viewed than your own!
Do you feel; left out? a victim?
Wishing you had more subscribers & views.
Spiritual Wisdom 4 You >>> I feel that you at TOA, are simply using batga interviews, simply to advertise & express your groups ideas.
Spiritual Wisdom 4 You >>> Because, Rick & this RUclips Channel are far more successful & widely viewed than your own!
Spiritual Wisdom 4 You >>> Do you feel; left out? a victim?
Spiritual Wisdom 4 You I think if I had unlimited power to make my wishes true, by now I might have: 1. Eliminated depression and sadness from everyone's life and might have given everyone complete wisdom of Krishna, Buddha, Jesus, Ramana, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, Dalai Lama, Katie and Tolle. 2. Made everyone physically and mentally healthy, able and fit. 3. Solved the energy, environment and animal life conservation issues. 4. Made everyone kind, compassionate, forgiving, loving, honest, truthful and vegetarian and made them treat everyone including those of other gender, color, caste, status, income, education, ability with kindness and respect. ...and once that was done.... 5. I would have changed my mind about myself and made myself really, really like me and approve of me. and then... ...6. Changed your mind about myself and made you really, really like me and approve of me.
But, it seems to me that I don't really have true unlimited power to make wishes true :-) What to do :-)