Animator here! First and foremost, thanks for cutting us so much slack, the limitations we face are huge and despite trying to be faithful to certain techniques, the game-play and appeal prevail at the end. I only want to point out that checking what the character sees through its eyes won't do any good, we plan the pose making sure it looks good and clear from the players' perspective, in this case, from behind the character. An awesome video and this helped us a lot, thanks! **Twirls away**
Oh wow, an actual animator from the Ubisoft team? Thanks for watching the video! The animations in For Honor are really good, so please keep up the amazing work. Also, I suspected as much for the looking when trying to look through a "first person perspective". That being said it still looks pretty good especially considering that the animations were made with that not in mind. If you have the chance, I would love your opinion on the Centurion video I made in the same vein as this one. I'll be releasing a part two for it soon, but the part one of it is already out and that talks about his animations as well. Regardless, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this comment!
I remember someone telling me the devs knew the sword weight was unrealistic, but they thought it was cool considering how strong it makes the warden seem
I could see that being a thing, but unfortunately that still makes it very "tropey". But I can still understand it from a visual perspective and a gameplay perspective.
Sorry if I sound unenthusiastic, I was kinda sick and this was a long project. Here are some timestamps: 1:01 The beginning of stances section 1:53 Low guard stances 2:05 High guard stances 2:55 Guard Form 4:48 Posing a threat 6:48 Changes I'd make to the Warden's guards 8:12 Perspective of other sword wielders and their high guards 9:46 Blocking 10:50 Parrying 11:54 The beginning of cuts section 12:26 Guard break 14:13 Shoulder bash 16:22 Light attacks 19:50 Heavy Attacks 22:11 E3 2015 trailer throwback to the Warden who died because he was to busy being stupid 24:16 (You spin me right round, baby , right round like a record, baby right round round round) (sorry) 24:57 Valiant Charge 25:57 Zone attack 27:14 Crushing Counterstrike 30:00 The end
Thank you! Part 2 will be out at some point but I have just been very busy as of late. It's about 3/4 done and it's looking to be about as long as the first one.
I feel like Kensei is a better knight than warden himself, he actually has stabs, a pommel strike and soft feints which would work well with wardens longsword minus the unblockable heavy at the end. If you put Kensei's moveset onto warden I really wouldnt mind and it would be a bit more diverse with actually having stabs for one. Warden certainly needs a rework, not because he is bad or good, just to make him more of a swordsman. Atm he could be given a shield and a mace and it would make more sense. Im a Warden main and having stabs would certainly keep me playing him xD
Yeah I've been playing a lot more Kensei and I played a bit of Zhanhu when he released and I gotta say, they could have done a lot more with Warden without making him so dependent on his shoulder. And really, I don't know why they gave Kensei a pommel strike because none of the weight for a nodachi is back there. It is a very forward weighted weapon, so really a punch might be more effective. But I can rant about that when I get to a Kensei analysis. As for Warden, I really hope Ubi gives him something more. They don't need to take away the shoulder bash, but they need to give him something that makes him feel dependent on his weapon, not his shoulder.
@@GoGoDani I feel like warden could have more techniques to show off like half swording during combat to stun opponents maybe. Thanks for replying btw!
from a game developer standpoint the reason why you do not want Warden to point his sword up as much as possible is specifically because the Kensei does that by default. when designing any kind of roster you want your characters postures as unique as possible, especially because their costumes are so modular. I understand that the highlander also points his sword up, but the fact that his model is significantly bigger and takes a different overall pose makes up for it. (the kensei will distribute his weight in a crouch like stance, the highlander for the most part stands up almost strait)
That's definitely a great point, and most likely the reason they did what they did. To be fair though, there are many variations of Vom Tag which includes a variation where they raise the entire sword above their head (akin to the Orochi top guard but with different body positioning because Kendo and European martial arts have a little bit different footwork and body mechanics). I think if they decided to get creative with it they could have found a way to make it make sense. But like I said before, beggars can't be choosers, and I am just glad that they made such an effort to make these look so good in the first place. Well anyways, thanks for watching!
Thanks for replying. I'm not saying its perfect the way the do the top heavy but there is one other reason game devs deliberately made his animation clunky. In fighting games it's actually quite important to make "trash moves". It primarily forces noobs to journeyman players to stick to certain strategies (in Warden's case its his sides) This prevents him from being too OP from day one as he has a clear weakness being his top. When you master warden however you can exploit this yourself by tricking people into watching for sides and falling for tops out of nowhere. (bash feint into top, top to feint top to side light, top feint to emote spam (RIP DEUS VAULT CHANT) I still do that though, go play warden, do your top heavy and just as your sword is above your head do your raised sword emote, especially if it would have executed instead (the animation probably isn't as fluid as I remember you have to cancel your top first probably they should make hard feints into emotes in the new reworks)) It's actually quite satisfying in any game to own players with unconventional, trash tech. Its why people like to post speed runs using only fists, whips or dung on dark souls.
Thanks for replying. I'm not saying its perfect the way the do the top heavy but there is one other reason game devs deliberately made his animation clunky. In fighting games it's actually quite important to make "trash moves". It primarily forces noobs to journeyman players to stick to certain strategies (in Warden's case its his sides) This prevents him from being too OP from day one as he has a clear weakness being his top. When you master warden however you can exploit this yourself by tricking people into watching for sides and falling for tops out of nowhere. (bash feint into top, top to feint top to side light, top feint to emote spam (RIP DEUS VAULT CHANT) I still do that though, go play warden, do your top heavy and just as your sword is above your head do your raised sword emote, especially if it would have executed instead (the animation probably isn't as fluid as I remember you have to cancel your top first probably they should make hard feints into emotes in the new reworks)) It's actually quite satisfying in any game to own players with unconventional, trash tech. Its why people like to post speed runs using only fists, whips or dung on dark souls.
@@sohji9412 I feel like the best way to orient that is switch the crushing counter to the side guards or keep the top crushing counter AND stab, but only use the crushing counter when the hit connects with the top light, so it doesn’t go from a stab to a top light
One of the best parts of For Honor is that it sparks conversations about historical accuracy, and the tragedy of most vikings in the game not being historically accurate.
One thing I have to remind myself of at times is that this is supposed to be an alternate timeline of Earth and when you play For Honor it is considered present day. So the ideas that multiple sword styles are in here does make sense because they just took diffrent forms from all diffrent fighting styles and regions and combined them. Also they have been breeding and training what are essentially elite god warriors for 1,000 years. So maybe they were able to make larger more weighted weapons because the people wielding them were pretty much bred to be able to do so. I mean if you had generations of warriors who train pretty much from birth to death it would make sense that they adapted really well to it.
I don't know much about swords but I do know that "twirling" is real in hand-to-hand combat (albeit very rare). The difference is it takes years to get to the point where a spin is even pretend useful and they're supposed to be lightning fast.
the sheer fact that the Warden has no stab moves grates on my nerves, even the Samurai characters with far more cut oriented swords throw consistent stabs, Ubisoft please make the Warden stab more, or you know, stab at all aside from executions
I always find these kind of videos interesting, because I usually go into them with a good understanding of the game, but not real sword fighting techniques. Of course the more obvious has been stated that, this is a game made with the intent of making the fighting look flashy and fun, and a lot of attacks are telegraphed so the player can respond, even with additional factors like network delay, input lag, and monitor delay. The average being around 400ms of delay to give you the ability to respond, if you can't flat out read the attack. That being said, some things that you pointed out, like the wardens heavy overhead attack leaving him entirely open, which is accurate, in game, players that have a tendency to throw out attacks like that are more often than not, punished for doing so, but quick light attacks to the torso region. In higher levels of play, heavy attacks are often used as bait, to feint into a grab, or a light attack, or a shoulder bash. And on top of all that, stuff like the shoulder bash are usually dodged and punished by being hit for trying it, I believe the main reason a lot of characters have those orange bashes is because a lot of players are so good at guarding that it's impossible to hit them unless you incorporate something ridiculous like it. As a side note, I do however love when learned people look into games like these, because it allows them to point out exact flaws on stances, and allows people like me to learn from it with a good visual representation you can pick apart.
The idea that his arsenal is exclusivley cuts goes out the window when you bring into account Apollyon. In Test Your Metal, she has quite the arsenal. For example, her impaling charge that is comparable to Lawbringer's in a way.
There is something similar to the Key guard in Italian Longsword. Posta di fenestra or Window guard in English. Its kind of in-between the German Key and Ox guards.
Wonderful video! I don't know how could I miss it for so long. I'm a Warden main and always wondered about these kind of things. The high stance is my favorite. Looks cool asf.
It would be a pretty bad idea to try to catch a kanabo the way Warden does. To try to stop it dead in its tracks and then push it, that’s not a good idea for a weapon meant to smash swords.
I had experience in sword-fighting myself a little bit, and at the time I loved the idea of a Warden. They way he moved and stoke, but I was told it had a lot of flaws: The most common one was the way he stood with his side guard. Your back should be set straight, and his clearly isn’t. The top guard is very impractical as an offensive stance, because you have to be fast in order to land an attack. The zone attack is impossible to do. Everything about it is a big mistake that shouldn’t be made. There are some positives though, and I’d like to mention them: Even though the top guard is bad to engage with, it’s very comfortable when defending. Your blade is always pointing at the enemy’s vital areas, and it’s good for counter attacking - pushing the opponents blade aside and then striking with your kept momentum. Shoulder bashes aren’t entirely useless, or at least when you and the enemy doesn’t wear a helmet. If he is way too close, you can choose to head-butt or to simply lift your weight upward and smash their nose with your shoulder. It should never be done from a long distance though. Thats all of my thoughts. Impressive video buddy!
I agree so much about the bash. Warden just feels like the little brother of conq with a less satisfying bash (or atleast he did when I played). I wish they made him more fencing heavy
21:25 ight imma just fly I don't know why but warden's top heavy just makes my laugh. The way he throws himself with the sword like he is pretending to fly is just hilarious. But it is so satisfying when you land it that going raw top heavy sometimes is understandable
Great video! I'm not expert nor do i fight with swords, but i am interested in it. I love how sword fighting looks. And for me realistic fighting looks even cooler than cinematic or videogame fighting. Thanks for putting in all that effort. It feels like a good analysis. I will now proceed to watch part two ( kind of an advantage if you watch videos much later - you don't have to wait for the next parts :D )
@@GoGoDani in addition they could add Orochi's blade slide FXs from HB and WG the the side CCs and give the options of heavy or light. ( halfsword side CC starting with hilt up, sliding opponent's weapon up and over to other side allowing for thrust causing bleed or pommel strike or hilt strike causing stun) could probably add hyperarmor to the thrust.
if you read this, please enable auto-generated subtitles, they're not "required" , but it makes my life so much easier when I'm having dinner and watching this
Thanks! Really great work and informative! Btw I dont think trailer is un-realistic cause warden slammed the orochi to the wall and orochi fell to the ground and warden thought orochi is finished and has no power to stand up so he just wanted to kill with one big hit he never thought orochi would do one last move. Maybe its not a good idea but in a fight sometimes you get to a point you are out of control.
Nothing is ever out of the realm of reality and we as humans make mistakes all the time. If that were a real scenario, that mistake costed him his life. That's why there have been numerous upon numerous texts and treatises on how to fight with a sword because you want every little advantage possible. If I were him and I saw someone fall to the floor, my first instinct is to put my sword point in their face. That way if they try to move in any which way, they're dead. Or if I just want them dead I just stab them. Overall, if you were on a battlefield and you need to kill someone with a sword, your best option would probably not be to throw out a massive rending hew that requires you to reel back. When a quick and almost imperceptible thrust to a vital organ would do the trick. And if they didn't die with the first stab I am sure they would not be in any condition to fight..... A n y w a y s, thank you so much for watching the video :)
at 0:52 warden seems to be standing in left pflug. the devs appear to have overlooked that his right hand should be using a thumb grip. don't ask me any more questions on this as I'm just learning HEMA stuff but if you want to learn more look up Dreynschlag longsword tutorial. that's where I learned this. most medieval handbooks I've taken a look at also corroborate this information.
I love those in deep technics analyses but, I also thank you a lot for cutting the animators slack and trying to understand Ubi's perspective and motives behind why they do this and that. And to be fucking honest after playing Skyrim and other games with sword-like Zelda and such, every they over-cut everything in huge arcs, for Honor is a massive breath of fresh air. (Just wish the game was not so damn performance heavy)
The crushing counterstrike is so satisfying to pull of I usually go for a combo: shoulder bash => heavy right => unblockable up feint (to bait a parry) => counterstrike => light attack => unblockable up feint I do this combo once or twice to end in a real unblockable up strike after I conditioned my enemy into not parrying an obvious feint m
Something that would be great and is brought up often, the campaign boss apollyon, while having a few horrendous moves that are way too telegraphs, she uses one of the only thrusting moves used by a sword character. She telegraphs it massively, but she half-swords her longsword and thrusts into their lower torso. I wholly believe that a revamped version of this should be used to replace the shoulder bash as a method of opening up opponents.
I wish his shoulder bash wasn't such a main focus of his kit. By looking at the Warden people's first reaction is "Oh he's gonna be the sword guy of the Knights" but then you suddenly see a bunch of orange while hearing some latin before you get your shit pushed in by a fucking shoulder four times in a row.
Another thing is that heavy armored european warriors are depicted as slow slugs everywhere (when they were prob as agile as anyone else), they prob gave warden a slower animation by putting him in inconvenient stances so he was percieved as a slow heavy hitter
The top guard is more of an Ox, but greatsword version. As you said, key guard is a little different, and it is lower, I wouldn't call it a "top" guard.
Working on it right now, there just happens to be a lot of research involved along with getting quite a bit of source material as well. Trying to work on it whilst doing normal life stuff is kinda challenging but it is coming along, slowly but surely. (Even though I try to keep it as brief as possible, because I want to make sure I cover as many points as possible the video might be even longer than part one)
Personally od say he goes into a modified key stance that allows him to easily execute his light parry. So this may be the best stance for his versatile moveset.
Hmm I think Warden was conceived as a hero capable of being a thread even from afar, I mean, I've thought about the bash a lot of times as warden is the first hero I played when I got the game. Giving him the running shoulder bash means he can stunt without having to be right in front of the opponent. Had the devs wanted to make him a true master of the sword, he would have been a very short range hero imo, even having a big sword, but that wouldn't have been a problem if he had been given superior lights from all directions so they can be more static and bait attacks; soft faints would be a cool movement too. When I think about warden I quickly realise the devs made some sort of mix, hl has the three superior lights, kensei has the soft faints, cent has the stunning punch... you know. I know warden can dodge and bash and that's a nice move but they are too dependent on it. I think a forward dash light thrust would be nice too. What do you guys think? Ps.: Dude, really nice videos. New sub here.
On the shoulder bash i can assure you that you get stabbed if you try it ingame and your opponent has not been busy doing something else beforehand, as well as they might just step aside, which they do
It seems to me that Warden was one of the first characters designed in the game's development. Together with pre-rework Raider and Kensei they seemed to have the most basic movesets, which you can see heavily here. That said, I still think that all of Warden's animations capture that more stereotypical European Swordsman vibe: Strikes not fluent and flowing enough to be considered weightless but also not too much force behind them to be considered Brutal and ignorant of the weapons capabilities. The side lights do not adhere to that theory though since that don't seem to do much(if even at all) damage.
I would really need to analyze how Highlander does his top heavies. And are we talking about his normal top heavy, his offensive stance top heavy, or his "Celtic Curse" top heavy? Because I have a different opinion for each one. In a very short answer, I would say that Warden has better stances, but Highlander throws better cuts. This opinion is subject to change though, and I won't be able to give a more concrete answer until I do a Highlander analysis, so stay tuned for that at some point!
A lot of people are requesting LB, so I might do that after I finish what I am working on right now. I already started work on a Cent video. Seeing how many people want LB I'll probably make that after Cent :)
4:30 I beg to differ. Doing what makes you feel comfortable often leads to mistakes (knee turned inwards for instance), you need to learn to "be comfortable with being uncomfortable".
I still think warden needs a better kit I mean lemme hit a mordhau without having to do an execution and some stabbing with a little more half swording like please ubi I need this
I think the male warden doesnt point his sword at the female because I'm guessing is because the female is shorter and the idle is registering her to be taller. I know that sounds very weird and this is an old video, but I just wanted to point this out.
I wish history teacher did this with their topics like compared video game realism to real life to make a point or example, it doesn’t have to be these types of games math and English would work with heaps of other games out there!
I absolutely hate what they did with this hero. He needs to be massively overhauled, crushing counter for every direction, give him lunge attacks as a new opener by holding the heavy attack button, replace his forward dash attack with a quick lunge that can come from any direction, remove shoulder bash because that's the worst part about him, his zone should be able to come from right or left like Raider, give him a quick guard strike to the face as a follow up for top heavy parries that disorients
Yes! I was actually planning on bringing that up in my pt 2 video when I talk about his armor. I only called it the Visored Barbute because it's something that resembles it more than something as broad as Visored Bascinet (because most likely a google search of that would leave you with a lot of images of the Houndskull Bascinet). But's I'm glad someone was able to notice something like that.
a little realistic but from the view of an animator i thought the large dumb heavys really stand out from the other attacks and really show the weight of the weapon, even though though there are better ways to show weight and give more realism.
Animator here! First and foremost, thanks for cutting us so much slack, the limitations we face are huge and despite trying to be faithful to certain techniques, the game-play and appeal prevail at the end. I only want to point out that checking what the character sees through its eyes won't do any good, we plan the pose making sure it looks good and clear from the players' perspective, in this case, from behind the character. An awesome video and this helped us a lot, thanks!
**Twirls away**
Oh wow, an actual animator from the Ubisoft team? Thanks for watching the video! The animations in For Honor are really good, so please keep up the amazing work. Also, I suspected as much for the looking when trying to look through a "first person perspective". That being said it still looks pretty good especially considering that the animations were made with that not in mind. If you have the chance, I would love your opinion on the Centurion video I made in the same vein as this one. I'll be releasing a part two for it soon, but the part one of it is already out and that talks about his animations as well. Regardless, I really appreciate you taking the time to write this comment!
Marc Espi are you actually an animator for this game? (i’m a big fan)
Do you know when they are gona fix Revenge in for honor ???
@@YourMom-fk8tb He's an animator, he makes animations, not a balance team guy... So its safe to say he doesn't.
Rahim Kerkache it's just super unpredictable and sometimes doesn't even fill up
I remember someone telling me the devs knew the sword weight was unrealistic, but they thought it was cool considering how strong it makes the warden seem
I could see that being a thing, but unfortunately that still makes it very "tropey". But I can still understand it from a visual perspective and a gameplay perspective.
Obviously he's strong as all hell, he can kill someone by punching them in the face, even when the opponent is wearing plate armor!
Yeah, becouse it's just a game
Sorry if I sound unenthusiastic, I was kinda sick and this was a long project.
Here are some timestamps:
1:01 The beginning of stances section
1:53 Low guard stances
2:05 High guard stances
2:55 Guard Form
4:48 Posing a threat
6:48 Changes I'd make to the Warden's guards
8:12 Perspective of other sword wielders and their high guards
9:46 Blocking
10:50 Parrying
11:54 The beginning of cuts section
12:26 Guard break
14:13 Shoulder bash
16:22 Light attacks
19:50 Heavy Attacks
22:11 E3 2015 trailer throwback to the Warden who died because he was to busy being stupid
24:16 (You spin me right round, baby
, right round like a record, baby right round round round) (sorry)
24:57 Valiant Charge
25:57 Zone attack
27:14 Crushing Counterstrike
30:00 The end
My god that's a great video.
Thank you! Part 2 will be out at some point but I have just been very busy as of late. It's about 3/4 done and it's looking to be about as long as the first one.
GoGoDani man seriously first I taught that you were a big RUclipsr. I hope that you will get popular.
Godspeed Dani
I feel like Kensei is a better knight than warden himself, he actually has stabs, a pommel strike and soft feints which would work well with wardens longsword minus the unblockable heavy at the end. If you put Kensei's moveset onto warden I really wouldnt mind and it would be a bit more diverse with actually having stabs for one. Warden certainly needs a rework, not because he is bad or good, just to make him more of a swordsman. Atm he could be given a shield and a mace and it would make more sense. Im a Warden main and having stabs would certainly keep me playing him xD
Yeah I've been playing a lot more Kensei and I played a bit of Zhanhu when he released and I gotta say, they could have done a lot more with Warden without making him so dependent on his shoulder. And really, I don't know why they gave Kensei a pommel strike because none of the weight for a nodachi is back there. It is a very forward weighted weapon, so really a punch might be more effective. But I can rant about that when I get to a Kensei analysis. As for Warden, I really hope Ubi gives him something more. They don't need to take away the shoulder bash, but they need to give him something that makes him feel dependent on his weapon, not his shoulder.
@@GoGoDani I feel like warden could have more techniques to show off like half swording during combat to stun opponents maybe. Thanks for replying btw!
Too much conquerer.
Mono yea but kensei is a weeb so
No, he has stabs
In executions
from a game developer standpoint the reason why you do not want Warden to point his sword up as much as possible is specifically because the Kensei does that by default. when designing any kind of roster you want your characters postures as unique as possible, especially because their costumes are so modular. I understand that the highlander also points his sword up, but the fact that his model is significantly bigger and takes a different overall pose makes up for it. (the kensei will distribute his weight in a crouch like stance, the highlander for the most part stands up almost strait)
That's definitely a great point, and most likely the reason they did what they did. To be fair though, there are many variations of Vom Tag which includes a variation where they raise the entire sword above their head (akin to the Orochi top guard but with different body positioning because Kendo and European martial arts have a little bit different footwork and body mechanics). I think if they decided to get creative with it they could have found a way to make it make sense. But like I said before, beggars can't be choosers, and I am just glad that they made such an effort to make these look so good in the first place. Well anyways, thanks for watching!
Thanks for replying. I'm not saying its perfect the way the do the top heavy but there is one other reason game devs deliberately made his animation clunky. In fighting games it's actually quite important to make "trash moves". It primarily forces noobs to journeyman players to stick to certain strategies (in Warden's case its his sides) This prevents him from being too OP from day one as he has a clear weakness being his top. When you master warden however you can exploit this yourself by tricking people into watching for sides and falling for tops out of nowhere. (bash feint into top, top to feint top to side light, top feint to emote spam (RIP DEUS VAULT CHANT) I still do that though, go play warden, do your top heavy and just as your sword is above your head do your raised sword emote, especially if it would have executed instead (the animation probably isn't as fluid as I remember you have to cancel your top first probably they should make hard feints into emotes in the new reworks)) It's actually quite satisfying in any game to own players with unconventional, trash tech. Its why people like to post speed runs using only fists, whips or dung on dark souls.
Thanks for replying. I'm not saying its perfect the way the do the top heavy but there is one other reason game devs deliberately made his animation clunky. In fighting games it's actually quite important to make "trash moves". It primarily forces noobs to journeyman players to stick to certain strategies (in Warden's case its his sides) This prevents him from being too OP from day one as he has a clear weakness being his top. When you master warden however you can exploit this yourself by tricking people into watching for sides and falling for tops out of nowhere. (bash feint into top, top to feint top to side light, top feint to emote spam (RIP DEUS VAULT CHANT) I still do that though, go play warden, do your top heavy and just as your sword is above your head do your raised sword emote, especially if it would have executed instead (the animation probably isn't as fluid as I remember you have to cancel your top first probably they should make hard feints into emotes in the new reworks)) It's actually quite satisfying in any game to own players with unconventional, trash tech. Its why people like to post speed runs using only fists, whips or dung on dark souls.
I have watched Lawbringer and Conq before this, and am currently in the process of joining a HEMA group, so I am very happy I found your channel!
Lets make a petition to change warden top light into a stab
They’d still have to orient in his ability to parry with top light, bc I love that ability, but yea I’d sign it!
@@sohji9412 crushing counter is for weaklings!
@@sohji9412 I feel like the best way to orient that is switch the crushing counter to the side guards or keep the top crushing counter AND stab, but only use the crushing counter when the hit connects with the top light, so it doesn’t go from a stab to a top light
@@sharkface2.084 Crushing Counter should be available for all guard stances anyways. I don't know why they left it just for the top light
@@jooot_6850 because 1. double hit side lights and two, highlander
the fact that a video game sparks this kind of in depth review and discussion is so awesome IMO. Love this
One of the best parts of For Honor is that it sparks conversations about historical accuracy, and the tragedy of most vikings in the game not being historically accurate.
One thing I have to remind myself of at times is that this is supposed to be an alternate timeline of Earth and when you play For Honor it is considered present day. So the ideas that multiple sword styles are in here does make sense because they just took diffrent forms from all diffrent fighting styles and regions and combined them. Also they have been breeding and training what are essentially elite god warriors for 1,000 years. So maybe they were able to make larger more weighted weapons because the people wielding them were pretty much bred to be able to do so. I mean if you had generations of warriors who train pretty much from birth to death it would make sense that they adapted really well to it.
This was the beginning of a journey
I don't know much about swords but I do know that "twirling" is real in hand-to-hand combat (albeit very rare). The difference is it takes years to get to the point where a spin is even pretend useful and they're supposed to be lightning fast.
the sheer fact that the Warden has no stab moves grates on my nerves, even the Samurai characters with far more cut oriented swords throw consistent stabs, Ubisoft please make the Warden stab more, or you know, stab at all aside from executions
I love how he brought up the fact you can just basically doge most of wardens attacks
I always find these kind of videos interesting, because I usually go into them with a good understanding of the game, but not real sword fighting techniques. Of course the more obvious has been stated that, this is a game made with the intent of making the fighting look flashy and fun, and a lot of attacks are telegraphed so the player can respond, even with additional factors like network delay, input lag, and monitor delay. The average being around 400ms of delay to give you the ability to respond, if you can't flat out read the attack. That being said, some things that you pointed out, like the wardens heavy overhead attack leaving him entirely open, which is accurate, in game, players that have a tendency to throw out attacks like that are more often than not, punished for doing so, but quick light attacks to the torso region. In higher levels of play, heavy attacks are often used as bait, to feint into a grab, or a light attack, or a shoulder bash. And on top of all that, stuff like the shoulder bash are usually dodged and punished by being hit for trying it, I believe the main reason a lot of characters have those orange bashes is because a lot of players are so good at guarding that it's impossible to hit them unless you incorporate something ridiculous like it.
As a side note, I do however love when learned people look into games like these, because it allows them to point out exact flaws on stances, and allows people like me to learn from it with a good visual representation you can pick apart.
The idea that his arsenal is exclusivley cuts goes out the window when you bring into account Apollyon. In Test Your Metal, she has quite the arsenal. For example, her impaling charge that is comparable to Lawbringer's in a way.
Dude, you earned my sub I love realism checks in any game
There is something similar to the Key guard in Italian Longsword. Posta di fenestra or Window guard in English. Its kind of in-between the German Key and Ox guards.
That's very cool. Hopefully one day I can get some time to spend with some Fiore instructors so I can learn some Italian longsword.
Wonderful video! I don't know how could I miss it for so long. I'm a Warden main and always wondered about these kind of things.
The high stance is my favorite. Looks cool asf.
It would be a pretty bad idea to try to catch a kanabo the way Warden does. To try to stop it dead in its tracks and then push it, that’s not a good idea for a weapon meant to smash swords.
6:42 this is actually a genius idea, as a warden’s strongest weapon is his shoulder
.... With the way the backwords throw animation looks it sets up a stab perfectly... It... It is beautifully wasted but looks amazing.
Just stumbled upon your channel, I love this kind of stuff
I had experience in sword-fighting myself a little bit, and at the time I loved the idea of a Warden. They way he moved and stoke, but I was told it had a lot of flaws:
The most common one was the way he stood with his side guard. Your back should be set straight, and his clearly isn’t.
The top guard is very impractical as an offensive stance, because you have to be fast in order to land an attack.
The zone attack is impossible to do. Everything about it is a big mistake that shouldn’t be made.
There are some positives though, and I’d like to mention them:
Even though the top guard is bad to engage with, it’s very comfortable when defending. Your blade is always pointing at the enemy’s vital areas, and it’s good for counter attacking - pushing the opponents blade aside and then striking with your kept momentum.
Shoulder bashes aren’t entirely useless, or at least when you and the enemy doesn’t wear a helmet. If he is way too close, you can choose to head-butt or to simply lift your weight upward and smash their nose with your shoulder. It should never be done from a long distance though.
Thats all of my thoughts. Impressive video buddy!
This was the coolest video, combining my love of video games and European long swording. Thank you for your insight.
I agree so much about the bash. Warden just feels like the little brother of conq with a less satisfying bash (or atleast he did when I played). I wish they made him more fencing heavy
21:25
ight imma just fly
I don't know why but warden's top heavy just makes my laugh. The way he throws himself with the sword like he is pretending to fly is just hilarious. But it is so satisfying when you land it that going raw top heavy sometimes is understandable
This is an amazing ad
Your better than heheheh some RUclipsr who bought an Ad
Great video! I'm not expert nor do i fight with swords, but i am interested in it. I love how sword fighting looks. And for me realistic fighting looks even cooler than cinematic or videogame fighting. Thanks for putting in all that effort. It feels like a good analysis. I will now proceed to watch part two ( kind of an advantage if you watch videos much later - you don't have to wait for the next parts :D )
Plot twist: Wardens new crushing counter halfswording thrust now applies bleed damage
Make that his side CCs and maybe he'll have some sort of defensive capabilities outside of "gonna bash... or am I?"
@@GoGoDani in addition they could add Orochi's blade slide FXs from HB and WG the the side CCs and give the options of heavy or light. ( halfsword side CC starting with hilt up, sliding opponent's weapon up and over to other side allowing for thrust causing bleed or pommel strike or hilt strike causing stun) could probably add hyperarmor to the thrust.
actually you generally would follow up a block with an attack in for honour, just makes sense
This video is really unique. Really good content!
The Warden grips the sword in the Schlüssel guard very loosely too, gripping it with only one hand and just kinda laying it on the other hand
IMO they should replace the shoulder bash with Apollyon’s half swording impale
“Sword master” proceeds to use only 1 sword technique
Great vid deserves much more views
if you read this, please enable auto-generated subtitles, they're not "required" , but it makes my life so much easier when I'm having dinner and watching this
I came back to this video a year later and still learned a little something
Those angles that he got that look like 1st person would be so cool as a mode in for honor!
Warden could so get a thrust in after his CC
Thanks! Really great work and informative! Btw I dont think trailer is un-realistic cause warden slammed the orochi to the wall and orochi fell to the ground and warden thought orochi is finished and has no power to stand up so he just wanted to kill with one big hit he never thought orochi would do one last move. Maybe its not a good idea but in a fight sometimes you get to a point you are out of control.
Nothing is ever out of the realm of reality and we as humans make mistakes all the time. If that were a real scenario, that mistake costed him his life. That's why there have been numerous upon numerous texts and treatises on how to fight with a sword because you want every little advantage possible. If I were him and I saw someone fall to the floor, my first instinct is to put my sword point in their face. That way if they try to move in any which way, they're dead. Or if I just want them dead I just stab them. Overall, if you were on a battlefield and you need to kill someone with a sword, your best option would probably not be to throw out a massive rending hew that requires you to reel back. When a quick and almost imperceptible thrust to a vital organ would do the trick. And if they didn't die with the first stab I am sure they would not be in any condition to fight..... A n y w a y s, thank you so much for watching the video :)
at 0:52 warden seems to be standing in left pflug. the devs appear to have overlooked that his right hand should be using a thumb grip. don't ask me any more questions on this as I'm just learning HEMA stuff but if you want to learn more look up Dreynschlag longsword tutorial. that's where I learned this. most medieval handbooks I've taken a look at also corroborate this information.
I enjoyed this video I’ve been looking for someone to review warden cause I wanted to know how realistic it was
I love those in deep technics analyses but, I also thank you a lot for cutting the animators slack and trying to understand Ubi's perspective and motives behind why they do this and that.
And to be fucking honest after playing Skyrim and other games with sword-like Zelda and such, every they over-cut everything in huge arcs, for Honor is a massive breath of fresh air. (Just wish the game was not so damn performance heavy)
The crushing counterstrike is so satisfying to pull of I usually go for a combo: shoulder bash => heavy right => unblockable up feint (to bait a parry) => counterstrike => light attack => unblockable up feint
I do this combo once or twice to end in a real unblockable up strike after I conditioned my enemy into not parrying an obvious feint m
your mega underated
Something that would be great and is brought up often, the campaign boss apollyon, while having a few horrendous moves that are way too telegraphs, she uses one of the only thrusting moves used by a sword character. She telegraphs it massively, but she half-swords her longsword and thrusts into their lower torso. I wholly believe that a revamped version of this should be used to replace the shoulder bash as a method of opening up opponents.
It would be nice for them to add bind work in the next game. I almost never let my sword off my opponents unless i need to.
The E3 warden was probably emoting before throwing the top heavy. That’s why he got stabbed.
Warden should go into einhorn for his high guards because it would look hilarious.
“Ubi I want a rework”
Ubi: “best a can do is a few new feats in 5 years”
If warden top heavies confuse you then raider heavies will blow your mind.
I think the overhead strike is very telegraphed to bait out parries for crushing counters,therefore they have to be slow.
nice video keep it up!!!!😍😍
Seeing him in the warder helmet makes me want a fp for honor
That is call kingdom come delivrance
Mordhau
I wish his shoulder bash wasn't such a main focus of his kit. By looking at the Warden people's first reaction is "Oh he's gonna be the sword guy of the Knights" but then you suddenly see a bunch of orange while hearing some latin before you get your shit pushed in by a fucking shoulder four times in a row.
Bro have you seen the new Warden animations on the Warrior’s Den??? AND THE ARMOUR!
The standoff at the beginning is quite scary
Thank You RUclips for recommending me a channel I actually want to sub to
U must return to us Dani
Another thing is that heavy armored european warriors are depicted as slow slugs everywhere (when they were prob as agile as anyone else), they prob gave warden a slower animation by putting him in inconvenient stances so he was percieved as a slow heavy hitter
His high guard is sick af
The top guard is more of an Ox, but greatsword version. As you said, key guard is a little different, and it is lower, I wouldn't call it a "top" guard.
Warden's Top Heavy: Winds up entire torso to jump into the air and fall onto the opponent
Petition to change shoulder bash into a thrust.
They probably kept the top stances different to create character variation.
How can they put so much detail into Warden's moveset but then completely drop the ball with whatever the "vikings" are supposed to be
Part 2?
Working on it right now, there just happens to be a lot of research involved along with getting quite a bit of source material as well. Trying to work on it whilst doing normal life stuff is kinda challenging but it is coming along, slowly but surely. (Even though I try to keep it as brief as possible, because I want to make sure I cover as many points as possible the video might be even longer than part one)
Personally od say he goes into a modified key stance that allows him to easily execute his light parry. So this may be the best stance for his versatile moveset.
''The Master Swordsman, a guy who uses the shoulder constantly'' Soo true it's sad honestly. Love the character but playstyle is horrific.
Hmm I think Warden was conceived as a hero capable of being a thread even from afar, I mean, I've thought about the bash a lot of times as warden is the first hero I played when I got the game. Giving him the running shoulder bash means he can stunt without having to be right in front of the opponent. Had the devs wanted to make him a true master of the sword, he would have been a very short range hero imo, even having a big sword, but that wouldn't have been a problem if he had been given superior lights from all directions so they can be more static and bait attacks; soft faints would be a cool movement too. When I think about warden I quickly realise the devs made some sort of mix, hl has the three superior lights, kensei has the soft faints, cent has the stunning punch... you know. I know warden can dodge and bash and that's a nice move but they are too dependent on it. I think a forward dash light thrust would be nice too. What do you guys think?
Ps.: Dude, really nice videos. New sub here.
On the shoulder bash i can assure you that you get stabbed if you try it ingame and your opponent has not been busy doing something else beforehand, as well as they might just step aside, which they do
this is a good video, i like this
I'm late but fun fact, officer uses fontoge(?)
It seems to me that Warden was one of the first characters designed in the game's development.
Together with pre-rework Raider and Kensei they seemed to have the most basic movesets, which you can see heavily here.
That said, I still think that all of Warden's animations capture that more stereotypical European Swordsman vibe: Strikes not fluent and flowing enough to be considered weightless but also not too much force behind them to be considered Brutal and ignorant of the weapons capabilities. The side lights do not adhere to that theory though since that don't seem to do much(if even at all) damage.
Which top heavy is worse? Warden's, or Highlander's?
I would really need to analyze how Highlander does his top heavies. And are we talking about his normal top heavy, his offensive stance top heavy, or his "Celtic Curse" top heavy? Because I have a different opinion for each one. In a very short answer, I would say that Warden has better stances, but Highlander throws better cuts. This opinion is subject to change though, and I won't be able to give a more concrete answer until I do a Highlander analysis, so stay tuned for that at some point!
Do lawbringer next, I feel like the halberd is an interesting weapon and would be fun to do through his moves
A lot of people are requesting LB, so I might do that after I finish what I am working on right now. I already started work on a Cent video. Seeing how many people want LB I'll probably make that after Cent :)
@@GoGoDani hell yea brotha, cents a cool one too. I'll look forward to that video as well👍🏻
4:30 I beg to differ. Doing what makes you feel comfortable often leads to mistakes (knee turned inwards for instance), you need to learn to "be comfortable with being uncomfortable".
I still think warden needs a better kit I mean lemme hit a mordhau without having to do an execution and some stabbing with a little more half swording like please ubi I need this
Main reason why Fem Wardon had better sword placement on male wardon is because the female models are actually smaller than the male ones
Wrath guard would be a real cool looking guard for warden
great video m8
I think the male warden doesnt point his sword at the female because I'm guessing is because the female is shorter and the idle is registering her to be taller. I know that sounds very weird and this is an old video, but I just wanted to point this out.
For Honor through the first person is so trippy
Was I hallucinating, or was the warden's crushing counter an ubisoft approximation of a zwerchau once upon a time?
I wish history teacher did this with their topics like compared video game realism to real life to make a point or example, it doesn’t have to be these types of games math and English would work with heaps of other games out there!
two stance?
I would use wrath-guard for warden's high stance, that's just my personal opinion.
I absolutely hate what they did with this hero. He needs to be massively overhauled, crushing counter for every direction, give him lunge attacks as a new opener by holding the heavy attack button, replace his forward dash attack with a quick lunge that can come from any direction, remove shoulder bash because that's the worst part about him, his zone should be able to come from right or left like Raider, give him a quick guard strike to the face as a follow up for top heavy parries that disorients
I actually like the bash..can we have it as a running attack a la conq 2.0?
the Key-guard is called Schlüssel guard in german
Highlander fights from the ceiling with a claymore and I can’t say it’s not accurate because he couldn’t possibly use key guard
Visored Bassinet. Visored Barbute didnt exist irl, only in fantasy.
Yes! I was actually planning on bringing that up in my pt 2 video when I talk about his armor. I only called it the Visored Barbute because it's something that resembles it more than something as broad as Visored Bascinet (because most likely a google search of that would leave you with a lot of images of the Houndskull Bascinet). But's I'm glad someone was able to notice something like that.
14:15 the only reason i clicked on this video
13:14 ubisoft did an oopsie
GUARDBREAK THIS!
*Stab*
How did you do your banner? The templar cross
yes i agree warden needs to steal lawbinger's poke :D
5:12 For honor in first person would be fucking dope!
How did you do the spinning shots around both wardens?
I’m not sure if you said it or not but does his parry style have a name?
a little realistic but from the view of an animator i thought the large dumb heavys really stand out from the other attacks and really show the weight of the weapon, even though though there are better ways to show weight and give more realism.