I work with grain and flour and can tell you it's like a sponge when it comes to moisture. It will drain the moisture from the air. If any moisture got into the product it wouldn't take much for the already overweighted ship to go completely over it's weight limit. Combine that with massive waves buffeting the ship and ice starting to possibly weigh it down and it's no real mystery that it sunk like rock.
Spot on, but the type of cargo wouldn't affect it. It would have shipped a large amount of water that would have no doubt found a way into the hull , and ice accretion from the extreme temperatures would have made it so heavy it would have in effect sailed all the way down, from weight alone.
And it swells. A lot...... You might not notice gaps in the hull planking from the outside. Especially, lower on the bottom side of the hull. Not with it sitting on the bottom of the lake. Maybe the deck boards didnt pop loose is because the cargo was already waterlogged and lost all buoyancy. Instead of trying to rise to the surface like a bobber, the heavy, waterlogged cargo drug the ship down with it.
I learned today how dangerous working on the great lakes was. May all the sailors lost, rest in peace. We live so well on top if the country they helped to build, hard, cold, dangerously, with their lives. Wow, I am in awe and great full. Thanks!
The fact that the lifeboat is so close to her and her cabins were not blow off from air pressure, says she was encased in ice till she simply lost buoyancy and slowly slipped below the waves.
Something not mentioned, which i think adds to the idea that she sank due to weight. The grain absorbs water. So you got all the water coming in over the sides, being absorbed by the grain. You cant get it out with any pump, no matter how hard you try.
The Vasa sunk on her maiden voyage off the coast of Stockholm in 1645 or so, was underwater and forgotten for 300 years and when rediscovered in 1950 and later salvaged, was in amazing shape. When you see it in the museum you don't believe that it was actually underwater for so long. water, under the right conditions, can preserve things very well!
Isn't there 3000 year old Greek trade vessel that was found more or less completely intact? Yes actually though it's actually closer to 2500 years old, it was found a mile down in the black sea of the coast of Bulgaria.
Calling the Great Lakes just "lakes" really does them an injustice. Especially Lake Superior. The Great Lakes really are inland freshwater seas in all but name. The weather pattern described in this video is very similar to the weather conditions November 10th, 1975 when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down a century later.
Very true, it's difficult to envision the Great Lakes if you've never been there; when I moved from Michigan to the SF Bay Area, I was trying to describe the lakes to some friends here and they found it hard to believe there could be lakes so large that in many areas you can't see the shore on the other side. And even more mind-blowing to them was that the Mackinac Bridge, which spans the narrowest spot between the Upper and Lower peninsulas, is quite a bit longer than the Golden Gate.
@@horsepanther Yeah. It's hard for them to visualize. In fact the smallest of the Great Lakes is many times larger than the entirety of San Francisco Bay.
This has been fascinating for me. My great-great-great grandfather was a Captain of steam vessels on the Great Lakes during this same period. It is sad to think that the sailors' names were never recorded and so families were left to wonder. Thanks for this video it helped me to imagine a little of what life must have been for Cap't Perkins back then.
My late father was an AB on Royal Navy patrol ships up in the Barents Sea and Arctic Ocean during the late war. He told me of how they had to go round at regular intervals with high pressure steam hoses, blasting the ice off the gunboat's superstructure otherwise it's weight would overturn them. Grim stories - and your historic photos give only an idea of what it would have been like 'further out'. Thanks - a fascinating film.
I clicked on your videos and your very thorough and informative Really like your topics and the science behind it your videos rock I will be watching more 🤙 great job
Loved this one (especially as I worked out it would be ice about half way through ha ha). I can imagine the crew just hung on climbing higher and higher until there was nothing left above water. Horrible way to go.
She was low in the water to begin with. Every time a wave crashed over her in the storm ice began to build up on and around every serfice. Encasing the whole ship and adding weight. Until she was pushed down below the water line, held together in a cage of ice. That's why she sank so suddenly, like a hand pushing her vertically down under the serfice, and landed without breaking up. Protected from the impact and held together by her ice cage.
Thank you for this. I have lived the first half of my life on Lake Superior, and have logged in more than a few hours at the lighthouse on Big Bay. . You did a great job on this. Special " Thank you" for pronouncing " Presque Isle" correctly. Things like that mean alot.
Anyone who cooks and has seen what happens when flour gets damp would know that water flowing over the deck and down into the hold would significantly increase the weight of the cargo, enough to sink it in rough water since it was already riding 4 to 6 feet lower.
@Old Guy's Place Clearly these knuckle draggers ought to be pounding sand, there's no sense in men like you and I trying to talk sense to buffoons like these. Like you said, they ought to get out of their mommy's basement and get a job. Helping their mommy pay for the groceries they eat would be nice... get off your blow up doll.. millennial turds...!
@@niyabellaqua Clearly these dolts ought to be pounding sand and then we wouldn't have to see their BUFFOON like, knuckle dragging comments. I can appreciate your trying to talk sense into these knitwits... I pity the tools.
Thanks for uploading this documentary. It's fascinating how they were able to uncover what most likely happened to The Windiate, using historic weather maps and modern day reconstructions and experiments. R.I.P the Captain and crew of The Cornelia B Windiate
I saw some comments about the lack of a crew list and just so you know in November 1898 the side paddle steamer Portland out of Boston headed for Maine was lost in a huge storm no one knew exactly how many people died or who was actually on the ship because the passenger manifest was carried on board ship - - it was only after this loss they started keeping accurate manifests in port. What you know or don't know about the practices of the times this ships went down can be extremely limited - - sketchy practices as Monty noted about outfitting a ship back then - - would you board a vessel knowing the odds were 60% against you making your destination alive ??
There can be one explanation why the ship is well preserved . Point no 1 : the ship is overloaded with grains with minus 30 and on top of it the hull would be coated with ice , adding to the weight of the ship, at this point the ship would have been flooded due to the storm. Now the goods which are only grains will be soaked that could double the weight , if the ship is well built then it most likely would have sunk vertically and the cold would have preserved the deck and hull
As a recreational diver I would like to hear more about the gear they are using, the depths they descend to and what if any decompression stops and for how long.
Semi closed circuit, side mount, I’d assume they would be diving with some blend of nitrox in one tank and the other one just normal air for past 40m (if diving with nx25 at a push for pp) or they diving with tri mix and oxygen to reduce deco
Maybe they went under deck to check what’s going on with the ship/they were cold, then waves crashed and they got buried by the grain? Their bones could be covered by all those grains 🤯
@@sensegfx2783 high pressure does nothing, its the oxygen in the water mo matter what pressure that breaks down bodies, bones last a few years but you rarely see any bones on sea floor except whale bones which take decades to break down
How much air was trapped in the grain, tens of thousands of cubic feet most likely, and how quickly did it dissipate when she sank? Could the grain have released its companion air slowly enough to create a buoyancy suitable to take the ship gently to the bottom?
The saw that clip everyone's talking about. There's no way they could've know where the drop spot was on relation to the wreck. The contact itself didn't do anything. There is over a century of organic buildup on the ship. The most it did was knock some silt and barnacles off.
About what I expected in terms of the sinking. Overloaded, little freeboard, she was overwhelmed by the water and ice and just went down. I'd read about this vessel, but not that she'd been found. An amazing wreck site.
Check out this video about another wreck that has been preserved in the same way.. it's on a RUclips channel called ask a mortician and the video is titled the lake that never gives up her dead.this is about another wreck that has been preserved as a grave site and it's forbidden to dive this wreck so as to respect the bodies that remain entombed in the wreck it's really interesting but adds to the mystery as to what happened to the crew of this wreck
I live in Canada and sometimes I forget just how massive the Great Lakes actually are. I’ve seen Lake Superior, we couldn’t swim because where we were there was still unexploded water mines near shore. I imagine those have to be gone now, that was ‘78.
It’s not an anchor. i’s a diving shot line, shot line, or diving shot, a type of downline or descending line. It's an item of diving equipment consisting of a ballast weight (the shot), a line and a buoy. The weight is dropped on the dive site. The line connects the weight and the buoy and is used by divers to as a visual and tactile reference to move between the surface and the dive site more safely and more easily, and as a controlled position for in-water staged decompression stops.
@Paul LE It didn't damage the wreck, it only knocked silt off the side, and as for damaging the sea bed, please explain how they have 'damaged' the sea bed? it's sand and silt
@@harryshutler At 6:25 he didn't talk about shot line but kind of grapnel and can be seen just after. At 6:49 you can see how it hit the side of the boat. Regarding the sea bed there is nothing, but as a multiple situation diver, even If I know the sea bed, I avoid to launch something from the boat. I'm installing the line and the weight myself - Safety and preservative procedure
Brilliant documentation, i just dont like when they try to explain something when they are under water... makes no sense. but ty for upload, hooked me.
In 1974 living in outback Australia as a 3 or 4 year old I heard The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the lakes have fascinated me since. Another comment also highlighted what was thinking while watching.... grain becomes wet it's weight increases, providing a more even ballast displacement below the waterline, steadying the ship. As ice formed adding more weight, wave movements were counteracted by the grain, keeping the ship stable slowly sinking untill neutral buoyancy occurred. Ice gradually melts in the water, allowing the saturated grain to provide negitive balast, counteracted by the slow ice melt, gradually and gently lowering the boat to the lake bed. Additionally, the wet grain may have provided additional internal pressure and reduced allowance for air or water pressurisation, providing additional internal support for the structure. A poor theory, and I'm no absolutly no expert at all, but have worked on sand mines with pumps and water where altering saturation levels gives some control characteristics.
This ship was an example of what that great Victorian gentleman Samuel Plimsoll defined as a coffin ship. She was overladen which guaranteed a handsome profit should she reach port. She was also over insured, which meant that if she foundered, her owners would still make a killing. With regard to the latter, the human part of the equation meant that a fifth of all mariners (probably more in the treacherous Great Lakes) perished with the ships that they sailed. Plimsoll fought like a lion to ensure that a simple line be marked on the hull of every ship to indicate the safe level to which she could be loaded. Today, all ships - including those in the Great Lakes - bear the Plimsoll line which has saved countless lives and continues to do so today. In my book, this surely makes Samuel Plimsoll the Patron Saint of Mariners.
Too much grain could definently be a possibility, but a storm would not add enough water to become too heavy, atleast that would assume that the crew didn't bail water out which is highly unlikely.
There's a wreck in Tobermory ,Ontario in Lake Huron just as pristine as this wreck. The Arabia ( a 3 masted schooner I believe) in 130 foot of water. She had a load of corn in her hull and word is she floundered in hi waves. Fantastic wreck to dive which I dove in the late 80s. Completely intact. She would be a great wreck to do a video on. At the time there was no zebra mussels in the great lakes, and she was just as she went down.
The wreck's like something out a movie or comic book. You'd think you could just fill it with ping pong balls and refloat it. It would probably break up if you tried, but it the condition of it is incredible.
OMG , this is so over dramatized. This is in a marine sanctuary off Alpena Michigan. There is a ton of wrecks in this area. I just did the E.B. Allen last summer. Edit: I didn't know the E.B. Allen was in this before I wrote this comment.
What did you weight the model with? Because it's not just about weight in the water, mass is important. If you matched the weight with sand, that's very different than corn when it hits the water.
Living in Michigan, it's always funny when people visit and say "I've see big lakes before". Yes, you have but nothing like the Great Lakes~ considering the US Coast Guard trains on them prior to port deployments, maybe they know what we already do. The lakes can make you rethink the word "lake" all together.
If you like this one you’ll love the Gunilda in Ross port Albert falco said this ship is finest example he’s ever seen and I agree it’s at a depth of 240 ft in Georgian bay
$16,000 in equipment later, around $4000 in training, another $5 to 10,000 in dive experience, 2 years later and you can visit that boat too....or you can watch it here on youtube for free.....
I think they thought the boat was unsinkable. I think they even bragged about. And low and behold, it hits an iceberg. Everyone tried to flee (except the band- they kept playing until their death) and even though there was "no survivors", there was one woman with a BEAUTIFUL necklace. She didnt tell anyone though.... they should make that into a movie.
So did congress end up passing a bill to require sailor name registration on ships? If so, how soon following the sinking of the Windiate? The video left this really important info out! I'm going to have to research, because now it's bugging me not to know.
I think this needs to be clarified; this wreck is off of Thunder Bay, Michigan not Thunder Bay, Ontario as I (a Canadian) presumed it was the Canadian town but realized after the first zoom in that it was the American one that was being discussed
Yvonne Rediger they did. it was over weight. Which could sink in normal conditions. Ice 16 tons every hour weighing it down even more and the storm 5ft waves pulling the ship down. It just iced over and sunk bcuz of the weight and storm. Sinking down blissfully slow swaying back and forth like a feather falling in the air down to gravity
Seeing the ship was over her capacity and in freezing weather the ship was taking on ice that made her top heavy and she was locked in ice she then slipped into the deep. The ice under water will keep her up right where she sits today.
Wow people really love whining in the comments, not like any 1 of them know what there talking about. There professionals. Just be happy they recorded it for us to watch n shut up
in USA we also have a Monty hall on television so I had skipped this because I thought it was the old USA television guy- how wrong I was . In the great lakes, little deteriorates as in salt water, but it is cold. In the old days , boats were overloaded, the books by Fred Stonehouse who also referred to C. Patrick Labadie in one of his books. Lake Superior has weather that is very bad November to March.
granskare Monty Hall, from 'Let's Make a Deal' is / was from Winnipeg, MB, Canada. I confess I thought the same. Also, I thought this was Thunder Bay, ON, Canada, until I watch the video.
37:29 Ice forming at 16 tons an hour, he says. That's 533 pounds every minute. I'm not a marine hydrologist and I understand everything has to be dramatised and enlarged for TV, but I did spend a few years going to sea, and much of that time was on an oceanographic research ship in the high Arctic in the fall and early winter. I've chipped a fair bit of ice off of rails and winches and other gear on deck, and I can't see how that much ice would form EVERY MINUTE on a vessel that small. I'd say it's more likely that she was pooped by a large wave, or several, over the stern and with her low freeboard and any spring hatch she would have settled fairly quickly and on an even keel as she sank, not bow first like they did in the test tank or like the other wreck they dived. Interesting video though, all the same.
Sails might build ice faster...? Also, the great lakes are notorious for blown freezing spray in huge volume...could that make a significant difference?
They call it lake effect snow. Just because the lakes are fresh doesn't mean they are safe. I grew up in Mi. Those lakes make 10-foot snow drifts inland.
Haven't finished the episode, but any chance the freezing rain stuck to the ship, formed ice and increased the weight to where it ran below the water line and just sank? The added bouyancy of the ice on the top side of the ship would have allowed it to sink slowly enough in the upwards orientation that it wouldn't damage it, and would have acted as cement holding pieces of the ship together. Edit: aaaand the rest of the episode confirmed it XD
Simple The boat was already extremely overloaded ice formed on the top of the boat and weighed it down the last little bit and it slowly sunk. Ice is incredibly heavy, and could easily weigh a boat down one or two feet.
The cargo filled the holds, so they didnt get blown apart by the compression of air in the wreck. Odds are waves were over the deck in -20f would have added more weight, plus water could have entered the hold in conditions like that. I doubt she had any chance of making port.
The ships well preserved cuz of the freezing cold water. Lack of oxygen in the icy cold water slows down the decomposition process...just like on everest you can still see bodies of climbers who died years Ago.
I'm slightly distraught that the anchor smacked into the side of the boat and scratched down along its side like that. Should such a treasured wreckage be damaged?
No, they should never be. I was shocked to see they did that. The Great Lakes is my preferred diving. In fact, the dive shop Monty enters is the dive shop I work at.
I like that wreck. Just to bad he keeps saying that the cold water preserved it. The fact that it was fresh water instead of salt water had way more to do than the actual temperature of the water. Otherwise, good clip!
Bogy is right. Wood decays because microorganisms eat it. Very cold dark water does not harbour many microorganisms, so wood survives a long time. Metal decays because salt rusts it, but salt does not do much to wood. This is a wooden wreck, so the temperature is a factor, salinity for the most part isn't.
What a shame, if they had not overloaded the ship perhaps she would not have foundered. I don’t know if it would’ve made any difference to the crew, if they were washed over before she sank due to the storm.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
I work with grain and flour and can tell you it's like a sponge when it comes to moisture. It will drain the moisture from the air. If any moisture got into the product it wouldn't take much for the already overweighted ship to go completely over it's weight limit. Combine that with massive waves buffeting the ship and ice starting to possibly weigh it down and it's no real mystery that it sunk like rock.
*sank
Spot on, but the type of cargo wouldn't affect it. It would have shipped a large amount of water that would have no doubt found a way into the hull , and ice accretion from the extreme temperatures would have made it so heavy it would have in effect sailed all the way down, from weight alone.
And it swells. A lot......
You might not notice gaps in the hull planking from the outside. Especially, lower on the bottom side of the hull. Not with it sitting on the bottom of the lake.
Maybe the deck boards didnt pop loose is because the cargo was already waterlogged and lost all buoyancy. Instead of trying to rise to the surface like a bobber, the heavy, waterlogged cargo drug the ship down with it.
At -20 moisture doesn’t stand a chance
@@rickhouston2144 ,. The water flowing over the deck, into the cargo hatch wasn't frozen. The ship wasn't iced in.
I learned today how dangerous working on the great lakes was. May all the sailors lost, rest in peace. We live so well on top if the country they helped to build, hard, cold, dangerously, with their lives. Wow, I am in awe and great full. Thanks!
The fact that the lifeboat is so close to her and her cabins were not blow off from air pressure, says she was encased in ice till she simply lost buoyancy and slowly slipped below the waves.
Something not mentioned, which i think adds to the idea that she sank due to weight.
The grain absorbs water. So you got all the water coming in over the sides, being absorbed by the grain. You cant get it out with any pump, no matter how hard you try.
"It's so pristine!" Then proceeds to hit it with a grapple. :-(
If that steering wheel breaks there will be riots I tell you.
The Vasa sunk on her maiden voyage off the coast of Stockholm in 1645 or so, was underwater and forgotten for 300 years and when rediscovered in 1950 and later salvaged, was in amazing shape. When you see it in the museum you don't believe that it was actually underwater for so long. water, under the right conditions, can preserve things very well!
Cold deep water preserves all
Isn't there 3000 year old Greek trade vessel that was found more or less completely intact? Yes actually though it's actually closer to 2500 years old, it was found a mile down in the black sea of the coast of Bulgaria.
Calling the Great Lakes just "lakes" really does them an injustice. Especially Lake Superior. The Great Lakes really are inland freshwater seas in all but name. The weather pattern described in this video is very similar to the weather conditions November 10th, 1975 when the Edmund Fitzgerald went down a century later.
Very true, it's difficult to envision the Great Lakes if you've never been there; when I moved from Michigan to the SF Bay Area, I was trying to describe the lakes to some friends here and they found it hard to believe there could be lakes so large that in many areas you can't see the shore on the other side. And even more mind-blowing to them was that the Mackinac Bridge, which spans the narrowest spot between the Upper and Lower peninsulas, is quite a bit longer than the Golden Gate.
Do you live in Thunder Bay, Ontario, too????🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
@@kenzielarsen1771 Sorry Kenzie. I don't. I live in NE Ohio not far from Lake Erie
@@horsepanther Yeah. It's hard for them to visualize. In fact the smallest of the Great Lakes is many times larger than the entirety of San Francisco Bay.
Thunderbay is lake superior, they have there location messed up, thunderbay so far from lake Huron
Absolutely stunning report including very complex filming, testing and thorough research. Congrats @Monty Halls and the whole crew!!!
This has been fascinating for me. My great-great-great grandfather was a Captain of steam vessels on the Great Lakes during this same period. It is sad to think that the sailors' names were never recorded and so families were left to wonder. Thanks for this video it helped me to imagine a little of what life must have been for Cap't Perkins back then.
Such a well researched and well documented film, thank you..it was a pleasure..
My late father was an AB on Royal Navy patrol ships up in the Barents Sea and Arctic Ocean during the late war. He told me of how they had to go round at regular intervals with high pressure steam hoses, blasting the ice off the gunboat's superstructure otherwise it's weight would overturn them. Grim stories - and your historic photos give only an idea of what it would have been like 'further out'. Thanks - a fascinating film.
Cannot wait for the next season. Thank you, team, for interesting series!
Is there one planned?
@@danielflanard8274 Since, it is written S1, I hope S2 will come :)
I clicked on your videos and your very thorough and informative
Really like your topics and the science behind it your videos rock I will be watching more
🤙 great job
It should be lifted and restored and put in a museum awesome find
Loved this one (especially as I worked out it would be ice about half way through ha ha). I can imagine the crew just hung on climbing higher and higher until there was nothing left above water. Horrible way to go.
yeah... it was obvious after they showed the frozen up ship on a photo. poor crew
Anyone notice the skull like design in the sand at 9:42? Creepy.
Wow perfect simulacrum
I saw it once you mentioned it
drowningnixis yeah that’s weird AF
I was about to make that comment. Pretty neat.
Yhea i saw it to scary
She was low in the water to begin with. Every time a wave crashed over her in the storm ice began to build up on and around every serfice. Encasing the whole ship and adding weight. Until she was pushed down below the water line, held together in a cage of ice. That's why she sank so suddenly, like a hand pushing her vertically down under the serfice, and landed without breaking up. Protected from the impact and held together by her ice cage.
Thank you for this. I have lived the first half of my life on Lake Superior, and have logged in more than a few hours at the lighthouse on Big Bay. . You did a great job on this. Special " Thank you" for pronouncing " Presque Isle" correctly. Things like that mean alot.
Anyone who cooks and has seen what happens when flour gets damp would know that water flowing over the deck and down into the hold would significantly increase the weight of the cargo, enough to sink it in rough water since it was already riding 4 to 6 feet lower.
Uh, the description is not correct...Windiate sank in 1875....not 1975.
Speaking of 1975, the Edmund Fitzgerald also fell victim to the stormy waters of Lake Superior.
The great lakes, amazingly beautiful, amazingly cold (even in summer), and amazingly huge! Pure Michigan.
When host explains something under water: "HAHE HAFAEL SHUUAP... * BREATH* HEHUPEHTHS HTEHEHPPHOAH.."
@Old Guy's Place wow m8, well put
@Old Guy's Place Clearly these knuckle draggers ought to be pounding sand, there's no sense in men like you and I trying to talk sense to buffoons like these. Like you said, they ought to get out of their mommy's basement and get a job. Helping their mommy pay for the groceries they eat would be nice... get off your blow up doll.. millennial turds...!
@Old Guy's Place Get off my lawn!
@Old Guys Place It's an observational joke as far as I can see, not a complaint. And moderately entertaining for that matter.
@Old Guys Place The internet is timeless. And look - here you are, right back again, proving my point =.O
"This is the steeringwheel." Really ? I would never have guessed.
That's a Ship's wheel anyway, right? insulting to call it a steering wheel anyway, in addition to the captain obvious exclamation!
Your a gay twat
Hector Keezy
Well his point was, how intact it was even after 140 years.
jonatan ogiewa*you’re
@@niyabellaqua Clearly these dolts ought to be pounding sand and then we wouldn't have to see their BUFFOON like, knuckle dragging comments. I can appreciate your trying to talk sense into these knitwits... I pity the tools.
How tragic for the families of the lost sailors, they died unknown and anonymous.
Now this is a great documentary.
He does goodones.
how incredible is the preservation in fresh cold waters. nothing can remain at this level of preservation for longer than few years
Thanks for uploading this documentary.
It's fascinating how they were able to uncover what most likely happened to The Windiate, using historic weather maps and modern day reconstructions and experiments.
R.I.P the Captain and crew of The Cornelia B Windiate
I expected them to find a mysterious locked coffin on board with “DIO” embroidered on the front...
lol
It's Called the Helm not Steering Wheel
I saw some comments about the lack of a crew list and just so you know in November 1898 the side paddle steamer Portland out of Boston headed for Maine was lost in a huge storm no one knew exactly how many people died or who was actually on the ship because the passenger manifest was carried on board ship - - it was only after this loss they started keeping accurate manifests in port. What you know or don't know about the practices of the times this ships went down can be extremely limited - - sketchy practices as Monty noted about outfitting a ship back then - - would you board a vessel knowing the odds were 60% against you making your destination alive ??
Yes, versus 100% chance you would starve if you didn’t work … what tough times back then….
I like the presentation of the story - with the exception of the use of the voice of the diver... I can not understand a word.
Don’t know why.. but this documentary series certainly carries that “Man vs Wild” vibe-just a diving version of it.
There can be one explanation why the ship is well preserved .
Point no 1 : the ship is overloaded with grains with minus 30 and on top of it the hull would be coated with ice , adding to the weight of the ship, at this point the ship would have been flooded due to the storm. Now the goods which are only grains will be soaked that could double the weight , if the ship is well built then it most likely would have sunk vertically and the cold would have preserved the deck and hull
As a recreational diver I would like to hear more about the gear they are using, the depths they descend to and what if any decompression stops and for how long.
Semi closed circuit, side mount, I’d assume they would be diving with some blend of nitrox in one tank and the other one just normal air for past 40m (if diving with nx25 at a push for pp) or they diving with tri mix and oxygen to reduce deco
Some times it’s a full closed circuit rebreather too
Maybe they went under deck to check what’s going on with the ship/they were cold, then waves crashed and they got buried by the grain? Their bones could be covered by all those grains 🤯
Alen Zejnic I suspect it is way to high pressure for bodies to be preserved or even bones
@@sensegfx2783 high pressure does nothing, its the oxygen in the water mo matter what pressure that breaks down bodies, bones last a few years but you rarely see any bones on sea floor except whale bones which take decades to break down
I thought the same. maybe they all ended up in the grain hehe
Nope, would never happen. Maybe one guy but not the whole crew. Sorry to disappoint.
How much air was trapped in the grain, tens of thousands of cubic feet most likely, and how quickly did it dissipate when she sank? Could the grain have released its companion air slowly enough to create a buoyancy suitable to take the ship gently to the bottom?
Brilliant documentary
The saw that clip everyone's talking about. There's no way they could've know where the drop spot was on relation to the wreck. The contact itself didn't do anything. There is over a century of organic buildup on the ship. The most it did was knock some silt and barnacles off.
You can still see paint in many places so no I think she deserves more respect with anchoring.
Watching these during coronavirus break
Excellent show, Brilliantly done!
About what I expected in terms of the sinking. Overloaded, little freeboard, she was overwhelmed by the water and ice and just went down. I'd read about this vessel, but not that she'd been found. An amazing wreck site.
Wow amazing video and photos! I’m assuming you did the video with the x100v as well?
Check out this video about another wreck that has been preserved in the same way.. it's on a RUclips channel called ask a mortician and the video is titled the lake that never gives up her dead.this is about another wreck that has been preserved as a grave site and it's forbidden to dive this wreck so as to respect the bodies that remain entombed in the wreck it's really interesting but adds to the mystery as to what happened to the crew of this wreck
Talks about “preservation of wreck”
Nek minute: Drops anchor on wreck
Liking because this is great buty liking more for the audio guy being able to get his voice out of that wind tunnel!
“Relatively warm...4,5 to 6 degrees Celsius” are you kidding me? That’s freaking cold 🥶
John Doe as I see, that is a southerner. that is warm my friend
catlucyyyy Heck no sir ! 😆
I live in Canada and sometimes I forget just how massive the Great Lakes actually are. I’ve seen Lake Superior, we couldn’t swim because where we were there was still unexploded water mines near shore. I imagine those have to be gone now, that was ‘78.
Mines? That's wild
Why were the mines there?
Well thats one way to ruin a wreck... anchor off it.
"Has put us straight on top of the wreck"... smh
It’s not an anchor. i’s a diving shot line, shot line, or diving shot, a type of downline or descending line. It's an item of diving equipment consisting of a ballast weight (the shot), a line and a buoy. The weight is dropped on the dive site. The line connects the weight and the buoy and is used by divers to as a visual and tactile reference to move between the surface and the dive site more safely and more easily, and as a controlled position for in-water staged decompression stops.
Subi takahashi it’s also just a figure of speech. I’m guessing you’re not a native English speaker. Or if you are, that’s quite concerning
@@harryshutler This does not mean, given the images, that this line does not damage the wreck or the seabed
@Paul LE It didn't damage the wreck, it only knocked silt off the side, and as for damaging the sea bed, please explain how they have 'damaged' the sea bed? it's sand and silt
@@harryshutler At 6:25 he didn't talk about shot line but kind of grapnel and can be seen just after. At 6:49 you can see how it hit the side of the boat. Regarding the sea bed there is nothing, but as a multiple situation diver, even If I know the sea bed, I avoid to launch something from the boat. I'm installing the line and the weight myself - Safety and preservative procedure
Brilliant documentation, i just dont like when they try to explain something when they are under water... makes no sense. but ty for upload, hooked me.
sure does, or at least i could understand just fine
I love the subtitles, helped a lot.
Great vid. and nice to see O Three's gear doing well. Per Mare Monty!
Time to raise her and preserve her I'm a UK pensioner I don't have much but I would donate 100 pounds from my pension to help raise funds...
In 1974 living in outback Australia as a 3 or 4 year old I heard The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the lakes have fascinated me since.
Another comment also highlighted what was thinking while watching.... grain becomes wet it's weight increases, providing a more even ballast displacement below the waterline, steadying the ship. As ice formed adding more weight, wave movements were counteracted by the grain, keeping the ship stable slowly sinking untill neutral buoyancy occurred. Ice gradually melts in the water, allowing the saturated grain to provide negitive balast, counteracted by the slow ice melt, gradually and gently lowering the boat to the lake bed.
Additionally, the wet grain may have provided additional internal pressure and reduced allowance for air or water pressurisation, providing additional internal support for the structure.
A poor theory, and I'm no absolutly no expert at all, but have worked on sand mines with pumps and water where altering saturation levels gives some control characteristics.
This ship was an example of what that great Victorian gentleman Samuel Plimsoll defined as a coffin ship. She was overladen which guaranteed a handsome profit should she reach port. She was also over insured, which meant that if she foundered, her owners would still make a killing. With regard to the latter, the human part of the equation meant that a fifth of all mariners (probably more in the treacherous Great Lakes) perished with the ships that they sailed. Plimsoll fought like a lion to ensure that a simple line be marked on the hull of every ship to indicate the safe level to which she could be loaded. Today, all ships - including those in the Great Lakes - bear the Plimsoll line which has saved countless lives and continues to do so today. In my book, this surely makes Samuel Plimsoll the Patron Saint of Mariners.
Simple idea, the weight of the grain which was allready way too much, plus the weight of the water from the storm made it too heavy to float.
Too much grain could definently be a possibility, but a storm would not add enough water to become too heavy, atleast that would assume that the crew didn't bail water out which is highly unlikely.
@@omega1231 Ever mixed grain with water it is like a spoon. You wouldn't be able to pump the water out
Every diver here mad cause the anchor hit the boat🤣🤣🤣
When he says "It is beautiful "he sounds like vivian off the young ones..haha
LOL🤣🤣🤣
I couldn't stand to listen to him anymore
Facinating 😊
There's a wreck in Tobermory ,Ontario in Lake Huron just as pristine as this wreck. The Arabia ( a 3 masted schooner I believe) in 130 foot of water. She had a load of corn in her hull and word is she floundered in hi waves. Fantastic wreck to dive which I dove in the late 80s. Completely intact. She would be a great wreck to do a video on. At the time there was no zebra mussels in the great lakes, and she was just as she went down.
The wreck's like something out a movie or comic book. You'd think you could just fill it with ping pong balls and refloat it. It would probably break up if you tried, but it the condition of it is incredible.
Glad to know that the weather of the Great Lakes have always caused people issues.
OMG , this is so over dramatized. This is in a marine sanctuary off Alpena Michigan. There is a ton of wrecks in this area. I just did the E.B. Allen last summer. Edit: I didn't know the E.B. Allen was in this before I wrote this comment.
What did you weight the model with? Because it's not just about weight in the water, mass is important. If you matched the weight with sand, that's very different than corn when it hits the water.
Why is it different? Are you talking about different densities?
I dived in turkey and it was one of the most peaceful things I’ve done yet one of my most exciting things too
Living in Michigan, it's always funny when people visit and say "I've see big lakes before". Yes, you have but nothing like the Great Lakes~ considering the US Coast Guard trains on them prior to port deployments, maybe they know what we already do. The lakes can make you rethink the word "lake" all together.
They're more like freshwater seas honestly
If you like this one you’ll love the Gunilda in Ross port Albert falco said this ship is finest example he’s ever seen and I agree it’s at a depth of 240 ft in Georgian bay
$16,000 in equipment later, around $4000 in training, another $5 to 10,000 in dive experience, 2 years later and you can visit that boat too....or you can watch it here on youtube for free.....
I think they thought the boat was unsinkable. I think they even bragged about. And low and behold, it hits an iceberg. Everyone tried to flee (except the band- they kept playing until their death) and even though there was "no survivors", there was one woman with a BEAUTIFUL necklace. She didnt tell anyone though.... they should make that into a movie.
The builders of titanic never claimed it as unsinkable that was solely the media.
Your video description misstates the year of sinking by a whole century...
So did congress end up passing a bill to require sailor name registration on ships? If so, how soon following the sinking of the Windiate? The video left this really important info out! I'm going to have to research, because now it's bugging me not to know.
I think this needs to be clarified; this wreck is off of Thunder Bay, Michigan not Thunder Bay, Ontario as I (a Canadian) presumed it was the Canadian town but realized after the first zoom in that it was the American one that was being discussed
3:07. I saw in a recent discussion about the wreck that mussel damage has since removed all traces of the letters on the name board.
I thought this was Thunder Bay, ON, Canada, until I watch the video. I was hoping the 'Ghost ship' was explained. Not so much.
Yvonne Rediger they did. it was over weight. Which could sink in normal conditions. Ice 16 tons every hour weighing it down even more and the storm 5ft waves pulling the ship down. It just iced over and sunk bcuz of the weight and storm. Sinking down blissfully slow swaying back and forth like a feather falling in the air down to gravity
i never knew there where 2 thunder bays up there . this one is michigan . the other one is ontario
Seeing the ship was over her capacity and in freezing weather the ship was taking on ice that made her top heavy and she was locked in ice she then slipped into the deep. The ice under water will keep her up right where she sits today.
Nearly broke a rib, over his talking under water like he was playing “Speak out” 😆😆😆😆
Dish ish a shhhhteering wheel.
Lol...like to hear you do better with a regulator in your mouth...lolol
Wow people really love whining in the comments, not like any 1 of them know what there talking about. There professionals. Just be happy they recorded it for us to watch n shut up
Try improving your grammar it's 'one' and 'they are' or they're!
@@ria1636 wow ok sorry mrs. Ria
@@chiphazzard8173 🥰
It's quite scary just seeing the video and this divers risk their for documentary
Monty was great on "Let's Make A Deal"
He needs to dive Superior. Now that is deep and cold. Thunder Bay is at the top of it
in USA we also have a Monty hall on television so I had skipped this because I thought it was the old USA television guy- how wrong I was . In the great lakes, little deteriorates as in salt water, but it is cold. In the old days , boats were overloaded, the books by Fred Stonehouse who also referred to C. Patrick Labadie in one of his books. Lake Superior has weather that is very bad November to March.
granskare Monty Hall, from 'Let's Make a Deal' is / was from Winnipeg, MB, Canada. I confess I thought the same. Also, I thought this was Thunder Bay, ON, Canada, until I watch the video.
37:29 Ice forming at 16 tons an hour, he says. That's 533 pounds every minute. I'm not a marine hydrologist and I understand everything has to be dramatised and enlarged for TV, but I did spend a few years going to sea, and much of that time was on an oceanographic research ship in the high Arctic in the fall and early winter. I've chipped a fair bit of ice off of rails and winches and other gear on deck, and I can't see how that much ice would form EVERY MINUTE on a vessel that small. I'd say it's more likely that she was pooped by a large wave, or several, over the stern and with her low freeboard and any spring hatch she would have settled fairly quickly and on an even keel as she sank, not bow first like they did in the test tank or like the other wreck they dived. Interesting video though, all the same.
Sails might build ice faster...? Also, the great lakes are notorious for blown freezing spray in huge volume...could that make a significant difference?
Hmmm … excellent research mate … makes me want to purchase a deep dive submersible and become a deep sea unwater journalist 🔊✨👏👏👏👏👏😁great video
The crew was probably swept away for miles if the seas were rough
*extroudineary*
They call it lake effect snow. Just because the lakes are fresh doesn't mean they are safe. I grew up in Mi. Those lakes make 10-foot snow drifts inland.
I plan on diving this wreck.
Show us the where they damaged it with the anchor so we can get angry again
When I dive there I will check that for sure!! lol
That's a 196 ft far past a scuba cart
@@timdraughon5897 yup. You're going to need trimix knowledge and gear to dive there.
Between over hauling and massive ice build up the boat was like a rock history solved lol
U can never replicate how a ship would have went down with a scale model . It’s just impossible .
Haven't finished the episode, but any chance the freezing rain stuck to the ship, formed ice and increased the weight to where it ran below the water line and just sank? The added bouyancy of the ice on the top side of the ship would have allowed it to sink slowly enough in the upwards orientation that it wouldn't damage it, and would have acted as cement holding pieces of the ship together.
Edit: aaaand the rest of the episode confirmed it XD
Simple The boat was already extremely overloaded ice formed on the top of the boat and weighed it down the last little bit and it slowly sunk. Ice is incredibly heavy, and could easily weigh a boat down one or two feet.
Video confirmed, my hypothesis.
The cargo filled the holds, so they didnt get blown apart by the compression of air in the wreck. Odds are waves were over the deck in -20f would have added more weight, plus water could have entered the hold in conditions like that. I doubt she had any chance of making port.
The ships well preserved cuz of the freezing cold water. Lack of oxygen in the icy cold water slows down the decomposition process...just like on everest you can still see bodies of climbers who died years Ago.
on the north shore of Lake Superior, there were few places to anchor or find refugee.
This is Thunder Bay on Lake Huron. Not the Canadian Thunder Bay.
I live in Thunder Bay and treasure hunter and never heard of this. 🇨🇦
I'm slightly distraught that the anchor smacked into the side of the boat and scratched down along its side like that. Should such a treasured wreckage be damaged?
No, they should never be. I was shocked to see they did that. The Great Lakes is my preferred diving. In fact, the dive shop Monty enters is the dive shop I work at.
I honestly screamed. The good news is that I couldn't see any serious damage and it scraped off some Mussels
Nevermind their just scraping up the ship
@@SwilleeBMo Time to find the prick that dropped the anchor then!
its no an anchor
I get it Monty. Its extraordinary ;-)
New drinking game: take a shot everytime one of them says "extraordinary"
Great documentary but the title is somewhat misleading. This wreck in not in the "real" Thunder Bay.
Yeah I thought it would be in thunder bay aswell
I like that wreck. Just to bad he keeps saying that the cold water preserved it. The fact that it was fresh water instead of salt water had way more to do than the actual temperature of the water. Otherwise, good clip!
Bogy is right. Wood decays because microorganisms eat it. Very cold dark water does not harbour many microorganisms, so wood survives a long time. Metal decays because salt rusts it, but salt does not do much to wood. This is a wooden wreck, so the temperature is a factor, salinity for the most part isn't.
What a shame, if they had not overloaded the ship perhaps she would not have foundered. I don’t know if it would’ve made any difference to the crew, if they were washed over before she sank due to the storm.