An Interview with Enphase (including their strategic partnership with Octopus Energy)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- In this video I talk to Enphase about their latest products, and also their new strategic partnership with Octopus Energy.
The interview was recorded at a studio in Leamington Spa, which I highly recommend. Here are the details: www.1millstreet.com
Enphase website:
enphase.com/
Enphase and Octopus Energy Strategic Partnership:
www.smart-energy.com/industry...
My Microinverters video:
• Microinverters - The F...
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:57 Start of Interview
2:05 Enphase Products
5:20 Comparison with Optimisers
6:55 Solar Panel Oversizing
9:21 Export Limitations
10:43 Microinverter Design
13:15 Failure Rates (0.05%)
15:35 Warranty
16:52 Replacement Costs
18:50 Fire Safety
21:35 Microinverters on Multiple Panels
23:06 Batteries
26:24 The Future
27:59 Strategic Partnership with Octopus Energy
29:05 Getting an Enphase Solution: www.enphase.com
If you're getting a lot from my videos, and would like to support me in my efforts to help everyone, here are a few ways to do this:
1. I have a Patreon account, which gives you access to the "pro" editions of my various solar utilities: / garydoessolar
2. If you're thinking of switching energy supplier to Octopus Energy. If you call them and give them my referral code ("blue-wind-201") and my name ("Gary Waite") and we'll both get a £50 credit to our accounts as a result! share.octopus.energy/blue-win...
3. You could www.buymeacoffee.com/GaryDoes... :-)
For business enquiries:
Email: me@garydoessolar.com
(Please note: despite my channel name, I don't provide, nor consult on, solar installations)
(c) 2024 Gary Does Solar. All rights reserved.
DISCLAIMER
Whilst every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of the content in this video, no warranty for that content is provided, nor should it be implied. Viewers acting on the content, do so at their own risk.
#enphase #microinverters #octopus 
Хобби
![Megan Thee Stallion - BOA [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TKQY2ZlIEjY/mqdefault.jpg)
* NOTES SINCE PUBLICATION *
I carried our some quick analysis on the 0.05% failure rate here, together with a recommendation for anyone interested to get a microinverter installation: garydoessolar.com/enphase_analysis/
Great analysis again Gary.
I came across the SigEnergy 5 in 1 battery when looking into enphase products after your video, maybe worth a look/video
@@chrisdean5176 Thanks Chris for the great feedback! I'll take a look at the SigEnergy battery - I generally only do videos if there's a new angle on the products I'm covering, but let's see... 👍
Also, the failure rate will be slightly skewed by the older real world products and I expect the newest products to be pushing that failure rate down further - especially the IQ9 + models that will be using GaN technology resulting in fewer component & much higher temperature tolerance
@@ceejay9453 That's a great point!
Great interview, nice to put a face to some of the Enphase team that have been helping me in my Solar/Battery journey.
A key integration between Octopus & Enphase will be the energy management systems that will seamlessly allow consumers to get the best out of any Enphase based system and Octopus tariffs, as well as opt-in to become a virtual power plant if you have the Battery 5P
Thanks, and agreed! 👍🏻
Gary - excellent interview with Enphase whose products I am currently exploring, thank you.
Thanks Ian, and all the best with your decision making 👍🏻
Gary , this was the most comprehensive information on the Enphase Micro architecture system I have ever seen Thanks very much A Enphase Fan in Australia
Thank you - I really wanted to make this video as microinverters are a great alternative to string inverters, but they don't get the same attention as string inverters in many parts of the world... I can imagine where you are, your system is generating extremely well all year round, with no troubles! 🙂
Awesome been waiting for this since you mentioned few weeks back, one of your earlier videos sent me looking at optimsers and eventually led me to going for a all enphase system :) keep up the great work
Thanks - glad you liked the video :-) And great to hear about your system! :-)
I chose microinverters as I have a very large oak tree reasonably close to the house that casts a gradually moving shadow over the roof. It's not too bad at the height of summer but it is worse in autumn as there are leaves on the tree as the sun gets lower. I took pictures of the roof at various times of the day/year and decided that it was still good to go. I have Home Assistant monitoring the panel output and the graphs show how the dip in power moves from panel to panel. It works very well.
Sounds like you have a great solution there. Thanks for sharing these details - they will help others who might be in the same situation...
Great video! Very informative. We are specifying Enphase micro inverters more and for our clients now - they certainly are a great option, particularly for smaller arrays.
Thanks - I saw your latest video yesterday and really liked it (actually I like everything Artisan is doing). A very pragmatic discussion about the merits of microinverter technology, and aligns well with my video on microinverters here: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
For anyone who's not see Artisan's video, here's the link: ruclips.net/video/hlS_cbKIFDs/видео.htmlsi=_tg6NABTtH5YhtMN
Great video, the extra safety is excellent to hear as well as confirming the advantages I chose with our system. We are surrounded by big trees but the Rhea bifacial panels & micro-inverters are working really well. However the Enphase app is s bit poor, frequently seems not to update either bad service/server bandwidths. Our Alpha battery app however is excellent use this all the time to monitor things.
Hi Lawrence, thanks for the great feedback and also for sharing your experience with an Enphase solution. Sorry to hear that the app is not as responsive as it should be - I'm collecting feedback for the Enphase team.
Great
Interview for someone new to the solar game. Very well explained look forward to your RUclips videos thanks Gary keep up the good work.
You're most welcome, Chris - thanks for taking the time to let me know. I'll keep the videos coming! :-)
What a really interesting video Gary. My knowledge is very limited on this but I understood the basics, I think. Not looking to install any solar at the moment as hoping to move in about 3 years and I hope by then the industry has matured and started to settle down.
Hi Richard, thanks. And yes, if you're happy to wait, I can see the technology constantly improving and becoming more and more reliable. Enphase is already looking at increasing their warranty from 25 to 50 years, for example. This all heads towards what I'd like to see - a solution that once installed, just does its stuff without any human intervention (unless people want to intervene)...
I chose Enphase because I installed the system myself. To offset any potential failure issues, I mounted the units in the loft behind the panels & increased the ventilation. Rightly or wrongly with an working temperature up to 65 °C I didn't think it would be a problem and so far it hasn't.
Good video, thanks Gary.
Thanks for your kind words about the video, Malc, and also sharing about your experience :-)
I'm interested that you installed the system yourself. Did you find Enphase open to giving you admin access to your system? My installer has the admin login details. I only have an end user account but would like to add more panels myself.
@robhills9769 Hi Rob, I didn't have to go through that loop as I set the system up from scratch. However, the one time I contacted Enphase re the G99 approval, they were quick and helpful. Another contributor, "Harvesting the Sun," posted a video where he added to an existing system without any issues. Don't forget that you will probably need to ask for approval for the additional load from the DNO. Don't let that put you off the installation, and the whole process was relatively simple. Best of luck
Great video and very timely. I’m three weeks into my new install. I paired the 360W AC output IQ8AC with my 420W panels and so far this seems about right. 14 microinverters, 5kW maxed AC output which is achieved when in direct sunlight so still seeing some clipping. But the weather is cool and the panels are brand new so this will probably work out about right. I wasn’t comfortable with a 300W output max per panel. Time will tell if it was the right combination. The DNO 3.6kW limit for export is a bit annoying but the system throttles to the correct level if the only draw is from the grid plus the base level for the house.
Hi Steve, thanks for sharing details about your recent install - it all sounds great. Regarding the per-unit output, in case of interest, I talk about that in my video here at 20m17s in: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
Sorry that the DNO has imposed such a limit. My own export limit is 5kW, but you know, in reality I very rarely export more than 4kW, so actually, it might not be as "limiting" as you think... And of course, self-consumption is always best, and perhaps over time, with an EV and heat pump, the limit is less of an issue anyway?
I don’t think I’ve seen you do interviews before, so well done for getting Enphase on your channel! The focus on reliability is interesting to hear, but should a component fail, “time to repair”, and “effort to repair” are my learned considerations. To that end system design is important. A lot of these components are mounted right under the solar panel, where roof access is costly and difficult. Would loft mounted microinverters be a better option? Loft temperatures are high, but that’s also the case for in-roof panels. That said, it turns the job only a little more difficult than fetching the Christmas decorations.
Like the round table studio by the way. If that’s in your house it’s very impressive!
Dito
Hi Anthony, thanks - although I never envisioned myself doing interviews, I actually really enjoyed this one - the Enphase guys were great! Enphase approached me to see if I would do a detailed video on their products - a paid product promotion. I declined, explaining that impartiality was important to me, but as I liked what they were doing, I'd be happy to interview them for free - and of course I'd have full editorial control. We tried doing an online interview but we could see straight away that the audio and video quality was not going to be good, so we hired a studio in Leamington Spa (only £40 an hour - golly!) I'm really pleased with the video and audio quality :-)
On the topic of reliability and cost to repair, you'll remember that I referenced your own unit fault repair in my microinverter video here: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
The 0.05% failure rate published by Enphase can turned into a real world analysis like so, with the help of ChatGPT - I used this prompt:
"A unit has an expected lifetime of 25 years and a known average failure rate of 0.05% every year. What is the probability of a 10-unit system not failing over 25 years?"
This gave an answer of 88.25%. But actually, Enphase said the failure rate is not uniform, with the chance of failure being higher in the first 2 years - hence their reimbursement policy design. So, we could maybe skew the calculation slightly, like so:
"What if the chance of unit failure was far greater in the first two years than the remaining 23 years - say 5 times greater? Assuming the system was still working perfectly at the end of 2 years, what is the chance that it will still be working perfectly at the end of 25 years?"
The answer this time was 98.86%.
So, if it were me, I would get an agreement from the installer to pay for any and all failures within the first 2 years only, then I can relax... :-)
I'll add these calculations as a post-publication note to the video I think...
Talking of failure rate, it has a classic bath tub curve. Starting at the tap end, the initial failure rate is high but rapidly declines to a low constant level as manufacturing errors are weeded out. (This is the period where companies are keen to sell you their extended warranties). Then after a number of years (the extended warranty runs out) and failure due to old age occurs and the failure rate gradually increases to the point where it is no longer economic to repair. But the discussion within the video covers this very nicely, that Enphase will contribute to the cost of replacement during the initial period and then guarantee for 25 years. They have you covered.
Well done again Gary for a great interview. On the technical side I would love to know how an Enphase system links into 3rd party products such as my Zappi car charger or batteries from other manufacturers, (3.2kw charge/discharge rate is disappointing if you only want a 5kwh battery). And on a commercial front, as you are now followed internationally, 😀, it would have been great to know if the Enphase/Octopus agreement is going to be rolled out internationally as the impression I got was that this had only been negotiated between the UK arms of both countries. But keep up the good work and I’d love to see more of this type of interview!
Zappi in an Enphase environment, no Problem. I have got an Enphase system running side by side next to an SMA string inverter with Zappi and My PV power iduverter .This all is AC Coupled
Thanks very much, Paul. I really enjoyed interview the guys at Enphase, and you can tell that they really know their stuff! Now, on the ecosystem front, just like Apple and Android are building up ecosystems in the mobile space (an area I know extremely well, as that's my day job) the same is happening on the home renewables front. The key to an efficient and effective system is interoperability and interworking of all the components in the system, and of course, by buying system elements from the same manufacturer, you stand the best chance of getting that. It does mean though, that you might be paying more for the privilege...
Hi Gary,
I too was intrigued by their reliability claims and I've seen your notes on this employing the help of some AI.
Being a bit more old fashioned I looked up their micro inverter MTBF figure which for a single device is quoted at 600 years. This isn't of course expected lifetime but a statistical measure of the mean time between failure in a population sample. To produce a reliability figure from a quoted MTBF you need to divide the required lifetime (25 years) by the MTBF and raise e to this negative fraction which gives the statistical probability of making it that long. So the chances of one unit lasting 25 years is 96%. That's good but if my maths doesn't fail me the chances of 20 units in a system lasting 25 years is only 43%, or 63% for 10 units, so there's a good chance you'd need to get the scaffolders in half way through the system lifetime.
It's good that they give some compensation for early failures. The infamous bath tub curve of likely failure rate shows the highest probability at the start and end of product life but those extreme high points in the graph are outside of the useful system life of the majority flat bottom portion of the bath tub curve which MTBF is based on which is used for system reliability predictions.
Great analysis, John - thanks for taking the time to do this!
@@GaryDoesSolarNo problem. For what it's worth it's a bit swings and roundabouts. You might find a sting inverter failing as a single item in a similar time to a system with the micro inverters but of course the string inverter is easier to replace but then like you say you won't lose the whole lot and you could choose not to replace one or two micro inverters if the scaffolding cost is too high.
@@johnh9449 Joti from Enphase UK here. Great comment and analysis. What model and year was the MTBF data point that you cite related to?
@@6n7777 Thanks. M190 I think - it was from an Enphase Technical Brief "Reliability of Enphase Microinverters" TEB-00082-1.0 September 2023. The MTBF for a single unit quoted as 600 years working out to a 25 year single unit life 96% probability which matches the 0.05% failure rate mentioned i.e. 1 - 0.96 = 0.04 - I presume someone rounded it to 0.05%.
I chose Enphase as I have panels on my East/South/West roofs and there were no single phase, 3 MPPT inverters. Along with my desire to monitor every panel. Coupled to a GivEnergy AIO is a great combination.
A great solution - thanks for sharing this, Campbell
Great video. I am from Romania and i have my on Enphase and work with Ecoflow when power is shut down. Ecoflow became main grid.Now i want to do my own Enphase batery ( i know how)and i hope the gatewey will accept this. Sorry for my english.
Thanks for your comment and your kind words! I'm sorry, but I don't have an answer for you. Worth searching on Google to see if anyone else is in a similar situation.
Great video well done
Thanks for the great feedback! 😀
With regards to applying to the DNO for a given installation spec and having them say yes or no to the capacity/load; can we not just ask the DNO "What's the max I could do at my property, so I know not to waste time submitting a request over that"
Wouldn't that be great! Having recently had some "fun and games" involving local planning, I won't hold my breath it'd actually happen, but it's a fine idea!
I would imagine in the greater scheme of things, all those residential dno requests are likely both high in volume and rather time consuming
Hi Richard, that would be great! I guess the DNO would then see everyone planning for the max, giving them an ever larger headache than they have today! Ah, the life... :-)
Frustratingly not; I’ve had the same thought; at least it removes the unknown; the other problem is that multiple people may enquire just out of interest but never go any further or they may enquire but then apply 6 months later and expect to have the same answer regarding their max kW export. It’s annoying for people who live in a conservation area and need to apply they’re more likely to submit the max as they don’t want to have to re-submit another application and have to wait another X months…
That totally depends on the DNO. When I spoke to ENWL they were great. Took time to take a call with me and the engineer looked up my house there and then on their system and could tell me exactly how much I could apply for and get a no-cost quote. However, I am aware other DNO wont even talk to you, you have to speculatively put forward the request and see if they say yes or no, and sometimes if its a no, they wont even discuss why, you just have to keep punting in requests until one is accepted. So complete minefield unfortunately.
I am preparing to get panels with Enphase micro inverters and am interested in the Enphase battery solutions compared to pairing with a Tesla Powerwall 2 storage solution , my question is what benefits will the 5p Enphase battery system have as it is a smaller capacity forcing you to have more modules but also I do not want any batteries inside my property all need to be outside mounted is this a probe for the Enphase battery solution as it seems the Tesla Powerwall is routinely mounted externally .
The Enphase 5P battery does look to be a great battery, but I've not done much research on it myself. There are videos out there that perform a comparison - worth checking those out: ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=tesla+enphase+5p
Discussions like this would make for a great podcast. Any way you can convert it into an audio option people can download to their podcast app?
Agreed - it’s the best way to get more detail on products - directly from the manufacturers’ mouths 👍🏻
Gary. I think there is a need for a short video explaining STC and NOCT conditions in that a typical 440w panel only delivers that at STC and more likely only delivers 340w or less any other time. This can lead onto explaining micro inverter sizing.
Great idea. I’m preparing for a video on solar panels soon as it happens, so I’ll look at including something around that - thanks 👍🏻
Hi Gary, thanks for this interesting addition to your library of videos and topics.
Am I right in understanding that because the integrated Enphase system of AC based micro inverters and batteries there are no conversion losses apart from the first one at the panel to micro inverter interface. The result should be minimal losses in charging/ discharging cycles at the battery level?
When I looked at quotes last October there was a significant additional cost with micro inverters. In a situation like mine where there is shading from trees on most of the panels (8 of total of 16) on one of the roofs by about 1400 onwards they should offer an improvement in average yield but it's tricky to be sure of the cost benefit ratio of this compared to using optimisers which are a lot cheaper.
The "contribution" of €200 + €25 per inverter to replacement under warranty in the first two years does seem to a bit modest. If Enphase are so confident in the reliability and service life of their products one wonders why they don't just go the whole hog and cover installation as well as the replacement of the micro inverter itself. On their claimed failure rate of 0.05% the cost to them of this would be quite small but it's a big benefit to the purchaser.
A few thoughts to ponder. Mike
Batteries do not store energy as AC. The enphase battery converts the AC to DC for storage and then back to AC for consumption.
In short, the conversion losses for a microinverter + AC coupled battery are worse than a hybrid string inverter.
Thanks Mike, and I agree - as a general point, I would expect all manufacturers to stand by their products, especially if they are making public claims about them. From what Enphase told me, the the costs of repair should average out. Some installations will be more costly to fix than others. I do wonder though if the €200 + €25 is enough... I guess for some markets it must be, otherwise Enphase would have been out of business a long time ago...?
If the costs 'average out' as Enphase put it, then they should be standing behind the product and paying the full cost. The 'averaging out' at the customer end makes no sense. What if I'm the unlucky one that has to spend thousands on scaffolding to get it fixed? ~£250 ain't gonna cut it. Great for the guy that has a flat roof (or like me, bungalow) where it can be cheap but the poor sod saddled with thousands in bills wont be happy. Averaging out works at the Enphase end as over time, if the failure rate is very low, they should have very few payouts.
TBH, obviously this is their product so they are not going to highlight downsides. Personally, I dont see the issue with DC cables into the house. MC4 connectors are very safe. And you still have them on Enphase, they are just on the roof. The failure rate may be very low, but you have typically 15-20x more of them in an install vs a string inverter. Great that they are potted, but so is my Victron inverter.
They have their place. When shading is an issue, they are a great way to get good output still. Or East/West/mixed splits, also very good. But it should not be seen as a be all and end all as they are very expensive compared to a standard string inverter, which incidentally a normal sparky could swap out if it has MC4 connectors for the DC end.
@@cingramuk just on the cost side, they're not that much more when you factor in the new string inverter you'd typically need roughly half way through the 25 year panel/microinverter period. Obviously that's a gross generalisation, but it's an important factor if it's possible to stretch the install budget in the first place: that microinverter investment should be seen as the same as the 2 string inverters required to match the expected lifetime of the system, I think.
You make very valid points about use case and suitability, it's so important for each installation to be properly tailored.
@@Roobubba fair point 👍
Our 12 M215 (gen1) invertors have a 100% up time since they were installed in March14
Great to hear! :-)
Hi Gary, I'm already with Octopus and will be having a solar install in the very near future, 18 panels 7.9kwh with the Enphase microinverters iq8's plus a 10.1 kwh battery, We have no EV, not really home during the day and use most electric during early evening. The house does not point in the best direction for solar but I'm thinking on just bringing my bills down. What's your best advice. Thanks John. Oh and if there's still away of the £50 each lol I'm in.
Hi John, unfortunately, l'm not currently in a position to provide individual advice (not least because of potential liability issues, even if that advice is given free - such is the world today).
You're best to speak to an installer for such advice, or post a comment onto a solar forum (for example, this one in the UK: facebook.com/groups/2197329430289466).
Good luck!
Great video for those who are technically orientated and can understand what this product is and why it is so.
Otherwise, its like trying to decide between Samsung, Huawei and Apple phones.
Thanks :-) And yeah, it does feel a bit like that, I guess. Each manufacturer has their own ecosystem of products... and staying completely inside a single ecosystem has its benefits (but also it's drawbacks)...
Heyup there Gary we've switched suppliers from OVO to Octopus and used your code so hopefully you get £50 thank you for your advice on here still deciding which tarrif is best for me.
That’s so very kind of you to consider me - thank you! 😀 let me know if I can be of help to you with tariff selection (me@GaryDoesSolar.com) 👍🏻
If 1 micro inverter fails, do you have to replace it with the same make and model as the original or can it be with either a different model or even different manufacturers micro inverter
That's the great thing about microinverters - because they all connect into the AC circuit of the home, you could replace with any other manufacturer's' product. But you may still prefer to replace with the same manufacturer (even if an updated or different product) as it'll link into the portal that shows the performance of all the units.
Thanks Gary, very interesting interview. Not sure about the battery stuff. Unless I'm missing something:
Panels produce DC current.
You convert to AC at the micro inverter level (losses).
The battery must then convert that back to DC to charge the battery (losses).
Then to get useful power when discharging the battery, it must convert back to AC again (losses).
Even with very highly efficient conversions, you're going to be wasting a lot of energy. Just seems that choosing enphase means that if you want to add batteries, you're going to be trading off with efficiency losses later on.
You're most welcome. On the battery, the Enphase 5P is really just an AC Coupled battery, like the Tesla Powerwall 2. So the losses you mention are the same for any AC Coupled battery in fact. Tesla claim only a 10% round trip loss. Not sure about the Enphase 5P.
The Enphase batteries have physically embedded microinverters, think they’re the same as the modules behind panels. So should be relatively efficient. Only downside compared to a hybrid approach is inability to cheat the clipping by exporting to grid whilst maxing out battery charge. Along with needing updated G99 for each new panel/battery added (same for the Giv AIO too).
Yes you do get the 'double conversion loss' with AC couple batteries, be it Enphase, Tesla or others. The way to look at it though, is if you self consume most of the energy rather than storing it in the battery then using it later, micro inverters are no less efficient, as its converted once and consumed. If however, you mostly charge your batteries with solar and consume it later, there is a notable round trip loss that you dont get on a hybrid/DC coupled battery.
@@cingramuk yes, thank you for summarising this concept so succinctly - that's exactly what we do with intelligent octopus go and the 15p export tariff, some solar does top the battery up in the day, but very little so I don't worry about the round trip losses!
@@GaryDoesSolar Enphase also claim 90% round-trip efficiency for the 5P batteries, but my real world numbers don't bear that out (I have three of them). I show it closer to 80% than 90%. That was cycling them between 100% and 25%; I never allowed them to go lower than that. Also my three 5Ps together consume an average of 0.9 kWh per day even when just sitting there in "full backup" mode rather than being cycled. If battery efficiency is a major concern (for example in an off-grid application) then these are probably not the optimal solution.
Really interesting video Gary. I still struggle to get my head around the the amount of oversizing (120-140% mentioned in the video). The IQ8+ has an output limit of 300w which means you pair this with a 440w panel (which are now becoming more common and more readily available). Some clipping (10-20%) is good, but clipping over 30% of a panels 440w peak output does not sound so good. I was offered a complete ENPHASE system (microinverters, gateway, envoy, 3x5P batteries) by a new installer, and despite the fact the cost was astronomical, he couldn't explain the benefit of clipping this much output. I turned Enphase down and did the opposite in that my string inverter is currently oversized for my array as we plan on adding more panels soon, yet I am still getting my peak 4.35kW output (and sometimes more) at various times of the day and we still are only in April. Clipping my peak down to a max of 3kW just makes no obvious sense which is why I always scratch my head. Having faster start up of panels and more PV in lower light might counteract the clipping, but I still think it is way too much out of balance. Sounds to me like they need another IQ8 microinverter model which can output around 350w and brings the clipping of a 440w panel back into the 120%-140% ratio mentioned earlier.
So I have the IQ7+ paired with 415W panels, these micro inverters have a max generation of 296W but wakes up at lower light levels (22volts), a normal string inverter needs at least 200 volts to wake up. This means my panel start generating at much lower light conditions which is one benefit. It might sound crazy pairing a 296W micro inverter with a panel that has the potential to generate 415W but in the UK you are unlikely to see more than about 320W from that panel due to non-perfect iconditions. Panel manufacturers typically quote two figures for peak power, STC (irradiance 1000W/m2, think peak summer Australia) and NOCT (irradiance 800W/m2, think peak summer UK), so for my Jinko Neo Tiger panels STC = 415Wpeak but the NOCT = 312Wpeak. The NOCT figure is rarely mentioned as companies advertise the big numbers but NOCT reflects your panels true performance in real world usage in the UK. So pairing a 296W micro inverter with a panel that most likely produce 312W makes sense and consequently I see virtually no clipping on my array.
@@OldCodeMonkey The recent cooler weather and bright mornings has meant that i've seen 440w from my 430w panels.
An inverter may have a 200v start-up, but if you've got 10 panels then you're in the same start-up range as microinverters.
@@UpsideDownFork I'm not saying you won't get perfect conditions some days but average it over a year and the panel won't be hitting the STC peak and will be close to the NOCT figure, so you have to strike a balance. I'm just going by my own array and clipping hasn't been an issue. If you haven't got 10 panels, then you won't be in the same start-up range.
Yeah, I guess Enphase is in a continual race to design microinverters that can keep uo with the ever-increasing panel power outputs (and actually, the newer panels are becoming an issue for the Tesla Powerwall 3 as well (current limits).
On the price front, if Enphase product prices are see to be too high compared to a string solution, it'll be difficult for them to get traction in the market (unless the country has stringent fire regulations, for example). But worth remembering that over a 25 year period, there ideally will be zero microinverter failures, but there will be at least one string inverter failure.
@@UpsideDownFork Agreed mate. My inverter start up is 120v which is 12v spread across each the 10 panels so doesn't need a lot to start up. I have also been surprised to hit above my peak output quite a few times this month, and this is using an oversized inverter (not as efficient) in April. Obviously the real amount I will gain with string inverter vs lose in clipping with Microinverters will be more noticeable in the Summer months so something I will keep an eye on. I'm not against Microinverters, but the 300w max output would be an issue for a small array like mine as every Watt counts as I need to get the most I can out of it. I opted for Tigo optimizers with their TAP/CCA monitoring kit and so I get all the panel monitoring I need.
Great video Gary. Do you know if they offer an EPS / whole house backup? Not clear on website but I can’t see they do.
I’m just about to get three phase installed and I’m struggling to find a battery solution for whole house backup on three phase (I’m secretly hoping you’ll do a video on three phase and battery solutions to help me out!)
They do offer EPS and its called IQ System Controller and is essentially a gateway wired to the grid in the same way you see on a Tesla or GivEnergy AIO. I think IQ System Controller 2 is the later model designed for IQ8 microinverters.
@@JohnThomas-ey1hx is this available in the UK? Enphase website hard to find any non marketing info
coming to the UK this year my installer told me, I've seen info over on the US side, hopefully a easy retro fit, not to mention the enphase car charger that will allow car to home, hopefully Gary does a video on that
Great video < Im waiting to have an emphasise MIcro inverter system installed and was having a tesla 2 , I now hope the emphases batteries will be available before the install calendar date
Hi Steve, I found this which might be useful info - integrating a Tesla Powerwall 2 with the Enphase system, including EPS: enphase.com/media/7616
Good video Gary. One point that wasn't clear to me is what happens if the DNO export limit is applied to the microinverters via the Envoy S gateway? Surely this means that potential solar generation above this limit cannot be used to charge a 3rd party battery system e.g. a Givenergy battery via an AC inverter? With a hybrid inverter based system only the AC output from the hybrid inverter is restricted so that the battery can benefit from generation above the DNO limit. Perhaps you could cover the subject different methods of addressing DNO export limits in a future video?
Thanks Rob - and yeah, I'm hoping to cover this in a video before long. I'm gathering research on it at the moment, as it happens :-)
No, the system will only curtail production to limit EXPORT to whatever value is set; whatever you're using "behind the meter" doesn't count toward that limit, and it has no way to know whether you're using that power to boil water for tea, or to charge a 3rd-party battery.
I had my system installed in early February (I'm in the USA), but wasn't given permission to export by the utility company until the end of the month when they swapped out my meter for a bi-directional one. During that time, I had the export limit set to zero, and it worked like a charm.
In that case I wonder if mine is configured correctly as I don't see a CT clamp from the Envoy other than the one that reports production from the solar branch into the home side of the smart meter. The only clamp on the branch to the meter is a bi-directional one from the Givenergy AC inverter.
We ‘ve got 19 IQ7+ on the roof and they are going strong 💪
Great stuff! :-)
Gary interesting video. Can I confirm that Enphase will sell to the end user and I retain full admin control & warranty? One of my key criteria is not be reliant on a 3rd party for support or configuration.
Thanks James - now, I don't have Enphase products myself, so I don't know the answer to that. Perhaps others here might...
Hi James - Joti from Enphase UK here, are you an installer or a homeowner/end-user?
Hi Joti am an end user
@@jameswestcott4191 our general model is to support installers, however the warranty can only be owned and controlled by the end user. You have complete freedom to select the installer that meets your needs, change installer or even install yourself, if you are qualified. Hopefully that helps.
It would be good to see a direct comparison between an Enphase microinverter and SolarEdge power optimised system to see the differences in efficiency and production. Apparently Enphase batteries are quite expensive and has some compatibility issues in the UK?
I agree - I'm sure someone out there will have performed such testing, but I'm not aware of anything yet... I don't know too much about Enphase batteries unfortunately.
Vast number of videos on RUclips doing just this. Pros and cons to each depending on shading levels - but Enphase generally have better warranty.
Speak To The Geek did this with his mates Enphase system. I think Solar Edge won overall from memory.
@@JohnThomas-ey1hx
Completely different systems though, at different locations
Interesting stuff and so was your video previously that spoke about the Enphase inverters.
I recently had a give energy installation through octopus energy and I’m regretting it as the system is not performing anywhere near as well as I thought it would or what they predicted. I believe that the system itself is using far too much power just to keep itself going. The solar input is also pretty poor
Wow sorry to hear that. Any tips on what you'd do different next time?
Yes, an often neglected fact of home storage batteries. Not exclusive to GivEnergy unfortunately.
@@UpsideDownFork thanks for the info
Oh no, that's unfortunate - what are your system specs, home demand, and were there any installation problems?
I recently had a GE system put in by a local installer (17 panels, 5kW inverter, 9.5kWh battery) and for the most part have been very happy with performance. I did notice some irregularities with the battery though, and GE are coming next week to do some diagnostics. Depending on the nature of your issues, it might be worth contacting them, if you haven't already
Hi Mark, are you able to give more detail on this? I have a GivEnergy system myself, and I'm very pleased with its performance. It could be a configuration issue...?
One of my enphase modules failed within 4 months. They did send a replacement and reimbursement contribution but it didn’t come close to covering scaffolding or engineer costs to replace it. Being one of the 0.05% is cold comfort.
Sorry to hear about your experience. Would you be happy to tell me what the cost to you to fix was please?
@@GaryDoesSolar After the enphase reimbursement it was £1260. It’s a high roof so a scaffolding tower was required (at London prices!) plus installer and electrician time. Enjoyed your video as always. Despite my experience I am a fan of the micro inverters, I was able to identify the failed unit from the app. Interesting they said they fail early, I was worried one might fail every few months - hopefully that won’t be the case.
@@fabian8222 Thanks for the extra detail. Wow, that was a high cost! On the failure scenario, here's a paper Enphase released, which you might find useful: enphase.com/download/reliability-enphase-microinverters-tech-brief
And here is some analysis and recommendation I carried out based on the coveted "0.05%" failure rate figure: garydoessolar.com/enphase_analysis/
To clarify the failure rate - that is per year, or per the 25-year warranty period?
Per-year is my understanding. Which sounds a lot worse, but because the rate is so low in the first place, by the time to work it out over 25 years, it’s still quite low 👍🏻 Ask ChatGPT for the formula…
@@GaryDoesSolar I calculated it myself by taking 0.9995 as the chance of NOT failing, and raising that to the power 25, for a 1.25% chance of failure for 1 panel over 25 years.
For 16 panels, I did 0.9875^16 for just over 18% chance of at least 1 failure in 25 years for a 16-panel array.
Seems fairly high, however 1 panel failure may not even be worth it to repair, if your system is still working with 15/16 panels after x number of years. If you're still there in 25 years, you'll probably want to replace everything anyway
@@DarkS1m Yeah, this is how I calculated it as well. And if you can agree with your installer for them to cover the costs of repair for the first two years, then I think you're pretty much ok as if a unit is going to fail, from what Tom said in the video (and I can back up his statement as in my early career I spent a lot of time on burn-in/test systems which calculate weibull distributions and the like) it'll likely be in the first few months (infant mortality).
And to add to that, you're right a single unit going down on a 16 panel system is only a 6.25% reduction in overall capacity - not ideal, but not something to cry about either...
I have a traditional string system installed. However, I am keen to supplement my system with a few strategically located garden panels, each with a micro inverter. These would provide daytime home usage and let the traditional system divert DC power to our home batteries for use later in the day.
Sounds like a good plan. Worth chatting with an installer who knows the Enphase solution well, to see what they suggest...
Yes this works well. I have got an Off grit system ( SMA), AC coupled 4 IQ 7+ micros and 2x175 watt panels on another 1x IQ7+ .This all works fine but not very efficiently.Not economically.But good fun
For interest I'm in the position where currently I've only got the option of 4 south + 4 north panels so a tiny set up,but equally my usage is only 2mw per year, micro inverters I thin are perfect for me, it seems as the power requirements increase, micro inverters seem less financially viable, especially with one device per panel
I'd certainly like to see Enphase reduce the price of their microinverter products... That would tip the scales completely against string inverters!
Hi Andy - Joti from Enphase UK here. Have you considered the lifetime cost of a solar system, whether small or large in scale, and how a central inverter event of failure presents a risk of 100% energy and savings loss?
One thing I am unclear on re the batteries, is how the discharge rate scales., ie higher power devices such as ovens, AC units etc draw well over 3.2kW especially on startup. Does a second battery increase the discharge rate to 6,4kw etc? To me this is essential, otherwise you have the expense of solar and batteries but still need the grid constantly when you have much more than a moderate draw.
If you look at the Tesla Powerwall as an example, they state a continuous power output and also peak power output (to cover the very scenarios you describe). Check out my video on the PW3 here as an example: ruclips.net/video/sSpQSDSVQ9M/видео.htmlsi=b3sn1DbPuo8x0oui
Yes, the charge/discharge rates do scale linearly with the number of batteries because each one has its own set of micro-inverters. Here in the USA, the 5P battery is rated 3.84 kVA continuous. I believe the difference is due to the fact that we're at 240V 60Hz vs. your 230V 50Hz. As far as startup loads, the rating is double (7.68 kVA) for 3 seconds and 1.6x (6.14 kVA) for 10 seconds. I haven't seen a UK spec sheet, but would expect you'd also have the same peak/surge capacity factors.
@@GaryDoesSolar Thanks Garry, I rewatched that video. But why would you want a Tesla PW3 with Enphase? The PW3 has a string inverter built in, and Enphase make rooftop inverters, so then you would have two inverters in the one system. Would that even work? Thanks
@@user-sy7co9mi2zSorry, I only have a video on PW3 but the PW2 has similar peak output (just not as high). It also doesn’t have a built-in inverter. Quite a few people add a PW2 to their Enphase setup 👍🏻
Impressive solution but what about ROI?
That's really a case by case basis I guess. I made a video recently on how to track that over time: ruclips.net/video/JE2q__wFck0/видео.htmlsi=semSo_tNZUyi_2LE
I can never get one seriously work it out it's simple to do a quick estimate using a quote from an installer. In my case I need a 10 year return. That's about 53p per KWh off my roof.
Reply if you want my simple calculation
@@allan4787 send it through and i will test it....
3.2k for a 5kw battery lololol. Gary what are the other options for micro inverters please?
You can add any AC Coupled battery to a microinverter setup - for example, a Tesla Powerwall.
As you are aware I don't think solar is worth it at least to me. I need a 10 year return and cannot predict that I can get that return.
But everyone shouts the panels (and apparently μinvertors) will last 25 years get it anyway.
Well an estate agent told me that getting a return from solar when you sell your house is pie in the sky. [Perhaps there's a future video for you on that topic] I'll be selling mine in less than 10 years.
But here's another question/topic. Isn't 25 years life also pie in the sky. Maybe in 10 years there will be super quality very cheap solar systems at 50% of the present cost??? If so it's a waste putting equipment on your roof that will be redundant in 10 years. I'd submit if you look back 10 years that's already happened.
Yes, I'm aware :-) and I think you're aware that I don't agree - many, many people get a financial return on their system under 10 years. I bought my own system at the top of the market and yet my return is projected to be 8.5 years - see my video here: ruclips.net/video/JE2q__wFck0/видео.htmlsi=ApwKG64WUyER5Z6J
If I sell my house, I will simply show prospective buyers that they will save over £2.5K a year on their electric bill (depending on how much they use) and I'm fairly sure that will have a bearing on their decision against a house like mine without solar...
@@GaryDoesSolar
I tried that myself it's similar to the first spreadsheet I ran using data from a local supplier's system, In my case I never got a return out to 25 years if I factored in maintenance it was even worse.
But surely that's not all true. The idea that you get away from having one inverter. It only applies if you're using the ac directly only.
Only then will you not need another inverter. The moment you include a battery you're converting it back to DC to store it, Then back from dc to ac again to use it.
So using the Enphase micro inverters. Means you end up making at least three transitions from AC to DC and back again.
The safety issue you may well be correct, but I don't think anyone has ever noticed that it's a problem. You hear of rare occasions when batteries catch fire, but I don't think I've ever heard of a problem caused by having high powered DC cables coming down from solar roofs.
With all that talk about AC coupled batteries, at no point did you mention the conversion of the AC to DC to store it and back from DC to AC to use it. Or have you invented some new magic way of storing ac? Rather than dc electricity. With all these multiple changes from ac to dc, how much power are we losing that started out on the panels to when we actually use it after it's been stored in the batteries?
This lack of upfront honesty is just typical of the smoke and mirrors of the whole solar sector.
Further, I had a quick look at in Enphase's own site and it would appear that if you have a system with batteries you have to turn it off if there's a grid outage, which more or less negates the entire purpose of having your own power supply. I am sure I have seen videos where this is not a problem for other people's systems, in that some part of the load can be picked up and the system continue.
I am so sick of the ridiculous complexity to do the basic, simple thing that everybody wants with their own power supply through solar and a battery storage being so complicated and the difficultly in being done. Impossible to sort out, it's just not a complication you get with other products. You just say, look, I want one that does that. None of you'd seem to do it. Let alone the fairly obvious fact that we're getting ripped off by the people installing them one way or another.
Edit.
Oh and as a small obvious idea, why not run dc down to somewhere accessible, then have the Micro inverters there, where they can be accessed easily instead of under each panel? They can still be the same, one to each panel.
Hi Nicholas, I hear what you're saying, but actually the impact of the difference in losses between an AC Couple battery solution (which what you have with microinverters) and a DC Coupled solution (which you can achieve with a hybrid string inverter) are very small - so small as not to worry about, in my opinion. If you don't believe me, you can model these effects in my utility: garydoessolar.com/utilities/dailymodellingutility/
@@GaryDoesSolar Great thank you that is helpful to know and discount as an issue. I had later that evening found a video that covered it and claimed about 2% loss. As you say probably worth the functionality. A case of some idea of the process but not enough on my part! May be something to slip into your future coverage where relevant.
Golly! So much to take in here in the comments. Some variance in views of the merits etc. All quite confusing for a low tech reader.
My view of technology is that it's about tools to do a job and not an occupation. I don't need to be an electrical engineer to use a washing machine or a vacuum cleaner - I just turn it on and shove it around the floor.
It should be the job of designers and installers of these systems to take the mystery and complexity out of the equation and develop systems that work efficiently and reliably, maximise the potential of decentralised local generation and storage and automate the whole process with continuous monitoring to maximise efficiency and ROI.
My immediate decision, based on a spreadsheet analysis of my best quotes, ROI and opportunity cost of the lost dividend from investing the cash was that the business case for solar/battery installations was weak at the moment so I put it off for a year and put the money into a NS&I 12 month bond at 6.2%.
It will be interesting to see if I was right when I review it all in October this year.
Hi Michael, yeah - it's why I started this RUclips channel in the first place in fact - to help people understand the various technology options, to see what's right for them - before they threw a huge junk of money at some they then regretted later. What I specifically like about microinverters is that they are the closest thing I've seen to a "fire and forget" solar solution. Not only that, they're extremely easy to install on just about any property - for me microinverters represent the best approach to the mass market - documented in my video here: ruclips.net/video/q6t0AAi5Jws/видео.html
On the opportunity cost, I tend not to spend much time on that, but it does sound like you got a very good deal on the bond you purchased!
AC coupled batteries lose 5% converting from AC to DC which the actual battery is and the micro inverter loses 5% at least converting from DC to AC, then the battery has to lose another 5% converting from DC to AC out of the battery. So it’s far more efficient to have a bypass on the micro inverter to charge a DC battery as DC instead of losing 15% of your generated power converting backwards and forwards and out.
I’m rarely at home at night. My house ticks over at about 20w but the battery uses 70w of power to convert the 20w. That a whole lot more than 15%. The system uses over a kilowatt a day just to be switched on let alone charging.
So then the batteries need to be located as close to the solar as possible to minimize wiring cost. To that point the remote battery location they suggested need just an AC circuit for charging. If you expand the battery farm at what point do you need more AC circuits?
@@greymiller8231 I've got 17 panels (405W, I think) with IQ7+ micro inverters (315W max). Although they are connected on parallel and not in a string they do have a maximum number that can be connected (12 in my case in order to limit the current to below 20A - UK 230VAC). I have a distribution board in my garage that connects to my batteries, EV charger, house CU and Solar PV CU. The PV CU is in the loft and has two 20A circuits connected to the panels (split 8/9).
@@greymiller8231 Cabling cost is negligible and doesn't affect power or conversion losses.
@@marksweetman8765 This issue needs to be more widely understood and publicised.
If you disconnect your hybrid inverter from your battery and change the settings, the inverter will go to sleep when the solar isn't generating. This can save many kW over the course of a year. Once again, making the case for home storage batteries sketchy for some.
I have a Growatt SPH3600 string inverter. If for whatever reason it fails, it costs about £850 to buy a new one & a quick climb into the loft. If a micro-inverter fails on the roof, it's £700 minimum just for a side of scaffolding!
And if a panel fails in the string, doesn't that take the entire string out?
@@stuartburns8657 Maybe but panels are relatively dumb.
@@MrSensible2 Fairly certain if you had 10 panels in a string and one failed, you'd lose all 10 panels until repaired.
Nothing to do with how dumb they are, rather they essentially daisy chain the output to the inverter.
Also, as the years go by, if one panel out of the 10 was say down to 90% efficiency, and the rest 95%, they'd all run and be limited to the 90% panel.
I would recommend that people contractually agree a cost to replace a failed microinverter with the installer (ideally zero cost if the first two years, say) then a rising cost thereafter. And if such costs cannot be agreed up-front, then that says something...
@@stuartburns8657 I'm not sure that 90% on one panel = 90% on all panels. Isn't it the same thinking as the shading vs optimiser argument? The only effect it might have is the MPPT efficiency might be lowered, but it's not nearly as much of a degradation for the whole string output as it might seem
To much Octopus energy. 😫
Nobody is forcing you to watch the video... ;-)
They are pretty much the leaders in innovation with regards to the amount of tariffs and their lvls of automation