Chris, love the work you've put into not only walking us through the literal step-by-step processes of modding our daily drivers into dream machines but also helping us understand the importance of why we need to do it these ways. So many other random channels jumping on the electric bandwagon but you and Josh (and Nick with the MX-5) take the time to make sure we do it right. Thank you.
Thank you for this very useful video. Other topics I'd love to see you cover in future videos: 1) EV Motor options side by side along with voltage requirements, dimensions, and power output. 2) Tesla rear clip dimensions (using the whole assembly: tires, wheels, brakes, suspension, inverter/motor) and any oddities in what it would take to implement. Most importantly being outside edge tire-to-tire width. 3) BMS options. 4) How to deal with power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, and how tesla components compare to other options.
exactly what i was trying to get out of all those bigger automotive channels like b-is-for-build, hoonigans, etc. But I guess they will be clinging to the old ways till the last moment
I love the information. I have a 1981 BMW e12 528i that I would love to convert to ev. It will have to be a long term project though. Thanks for putting out this info. I will use it when I decide to start going on my project.
Subbed and thumbs up! I am planning my build and this was very helpful! Can't wait to look through your other vids, Question: how do you safely build a battery box? Much appreciated!
Hi Chris. What are the external dimensions on the complete model 3 battery box? I am concedering using it over S modules for a current build. Keep the videos coming. Really good info! Thanks again.
I don’t think a Kwh upgrade will ever come available. But that pack is actually 36kwh but restricted to 28kwh in the b250e so maybe someone will unlock it at some point
@@FelltenSystems have you seen the Denza models? Lol same car but with a 62kwh hr battery. Mercedes sold it off but it's still being made on the same platform.
Hello, I'm converting a 2002 Ford Escape and I'm at the point of having to make a firm decision on battery pack. Trouble is, the more I research this the more perplexed the whole issue seems. The motor is a warp 9 and I'm looking for around a 100 mile range, vehicle is about 3300 pounds. I don't expect you to do calculations for me, but just maybe your thoughts on which direction to go? Love your videos by the way. Very well structured and informative. Thanks.
You need to work out what power you want and how much you want to spend. Most popular motors for conversions tend to be the Netgain Hyper 9 or one of the Tesla drive motors. Whats it on?
Nice video, great info! Now going to measure up for a pack in a Porsche 550 Spyder kit car. Looking to use the motor from the mitsubishi outlander with gen3 Prius inverter and openinverter control board. Any tips/suggestions?
im not sure if im more confused or less , its put a hold on my ordering 5 of the smaller tesla modules , I think I need to discuss this with you guys further. I have two vehicles up for conversion . firstly is my 1964 Renault caravelle .......she needs a serious restoration first but it would be ideal time to weld in the right supports etc as I do so.....
thanks for the informational content! Where do you get all these used parts? Iam a young student in Germany, specialized on electric vehicles and don´t have the money for new parts :D I currently convert my electric scooter to a way more powerful one (from1,9kW to >10kW peak).
Great video! Have you looked into BMW Hybrid packs, which seem very attractive - modules 26 or 34 Ah, 59Vnom. Not very expensive, only 5-6 modules give a full voltage even for a small vehicle.
Is a grate cheap battery pack, gives full 1200amps output for the Tesla unit but is very large for its Kwh size, the new battery in the skyline is a 60kwh bolt pack.
@@TekAutomatica having had experience with these batteries, they are quite chunky, as in the 12 cell modules are hard to mount and break down. Also the power that can be drawn from them is not much more then they are rated for. But good thing someone got the BMS working for them.
Hello, what would you recommend as the lightest/smallest option to run a lightweight drag car based on Tesla Small or Large rear motor. Range is absolutely not an issue as max kWh needed is only in the range of 1.0-2.0. Current out and charge rate in and weight are primary concerns. I researched supercapacitors, but size and cost was prohibitive. Thanks Zero EV for your amazing video information 🙂
Be interested to hear your thoughts on large format LiFePo4 prismatics, especially with all the rumour about Tesla/battery day/offering a LiFePo4 pack... I use a pile of the old CALB cells (ex Allied Electric) and although they are old now, they do seem like good cells.
From my own experience, and general chemistruy, LiFePo4 batteries will almost always be less energy (Wh/kg) dense than LiPo, and mostly less power dense (W/g). The biggest advantage of LiFePo4 is they are incredibly safe. I've had a friend blow one up when he was experimenting with a TIG welder for spot welds, and it was very small compared to most LiPo fires I've seen.
@@Dogburt_Junior do you think there is some magical breakthrough that CATL and Tesla have made to enable decent energy densities with the LiFePo4 chemistry? I know at the moment it is all rumour, but I think everything points to them using LiFePo4 in this 'million mile battery'...
Question??? I'm wanting to put a small rear tesla drivetrain into a 73 vw single cab. I'm needing 400 volts for that motor i believe. I'm also only needing to go about 90 miles on a charge...what's the best battery option?? I appreciate your service .the video is great.
Another GREAT video !! Question: if 3.2v to 4.2v is the approx min and max cell voltages, when not under load, what is the acceptable (ie non damaging) voltage sag ? a) at various SOC % and b) at various % of max current say in a range up to 1000Amps for the various types of modules. I've looked all over the place and this kind of 'real world' / 'we've done it' info is really hard to find........ BUT YOU guys Have done IT [....... Kudos :-) ]
Sag under load gets speced by supplier. For some of our modules we have nice complete datasheets stating this, usually around 2.7V and at lower temps even 2.5V. So sag down to 2.8 - 2.7 would be acceptable, I am sure some Tesla's go lower.
@@Tom-evnut Thanks Tom that's incredibly helpful ... I was working backwards based on a helpful Tesla owner monitoring "260 volts is what my 1525 amp P85DL makes at 30% soc and 110F/43c" which is 2.7v/cell. Thanks for your confirmation.
Love the video. Are there packs that roughly match fuel tank size on older cars? My DS's tank is very rectangular and the width of the car, with about 65L volume
Every car is different so you need to look at actual dimensions to figure out what space you have. Never seen a car conversion where an OEM pack fits unmodified.
This video came at the perfect time, thank you! I’m converting a 1971 Range rover as part of a ground-up resto-mod. I’d love to use your products and services. Do you offer any form of consultation to nudge customers in the right direction and help them compile a comprehensive shopping list?
Hi, nice work dude, congratulations! I am thinking to put an Hyper 9 Hv in an 4runner 2001, so do you think is a good idea or I need something more powerful ? What kind of batteries will go fine with this work? Tank you!
Hi, Vera interesting video! I’m planning to ev convert my VW Bettle oval 1956. And need some good pointers regarding the choice of the right battery pack. I’m thinking 120 or 144V. I saw a EU-company placing battery packs under the floor in their VW Beetle conversion. Which i thought was interesting. I’m thinking more of commute Rhen power. But I do want power as well. So range and power are splitting the Nr 2 and 3 spot. Love to hear your thoughts. // Kind Regards Michael (Sweden)
It depends if you're in the US or Europe where to source your cells. Lowest price I've seen is $89 at BatteryHookup for 10S3P Chevy Bolt modules, which have since sold out. The top 10 batteries cheapest batteries I've seen have been on Batteryhookup. The next best thing doesn't come around until $155/kWh.
Great information! I'm planning high power conversion to a very small and light vehicle. I think the LG 16s 2.6 kWh module that for example EV West sells in US would be close to perfect for my needs, but is there anything similar available in Europe? With 6 of those modules I would get 60.8V*6=365V, 2.6kWh*6=15.6kWh and 17.25kg*6=104kg. Peak discharge current is stated to be 800A. This would be good for small Tesla drive unit or Model 3 drive unit in the future when somebody provides a solution to control it. Any suggestions for a similar pack with modules available from Europe? I have heard that there is a way to modify Tesla modules to provide double voltage but it would still be likely too heavy pack for my car. Low voltage motors on the other hand don't seem to provide the performance I want.
You could look at Vw or bmw hybrid packs they would probably work quite well. Don’t recommend doing the 12s mod to Tesla model as you don’t gain anything as the can’t output high amps without heave voltage sag.
We have the LG on our web site and will have calb on there in 2 weeks. The LG are directly from oem contract we have so only set info we can share on them but do have over 1000 coming in.
I have a 2011 honda ridgeline I would love to do a tesla swap to. Plenty of room in the trunk under the bed and in the engine bay. Wonder how many modules could fit.
Any tips on what types of motor would be good to do a budget ev swap on a subaru? Drivetrain is kinda heavy. Was looking into forklift motors but want to stay away from lead acid batteries
Interesting and very informative. I am considering buying a Mercedes B 250e and was wondering if you can retrofit a rapid charging facility (CHAdeMo or CCS) on to the B-class? Also, are the B-Class batteries capable of rapid charging?
what would be a good battery for a lotus elise which is converted to electric with a model 3 rear motor. Is it possible to "mount" the batterypacks just to the floor of the car inside the pasenger cabin and build a "lid" obove it? For lower center of mass.
What i really wanna see now is the cost of a full conversion without the hand labour (i know it can variate because of the batteries we chose and the motor etc.)
I have purchased the swind mini kit 80kw for my classic mini, suggestion on battery pack? looking for range, performance and longevity. Thanks mate , great video!
Great video again - you're very natural on camera and explain things very clearly, BUT you could do with tightening up on being precise with your words... You did spot and correct in the edit the slip you made with the energy vs power density, but there were also a couple of places you said kW when you meant kWh - one of my bugbears! I don't doubt for a moment you know the difference, but there are a lot of people out there that are confused by it, so it's important to be accurate
Yep your correct, I jump between kw, Kwh and kwp every day depending on the items I am speaking to customers about. To be honest it’s the last thing I think about when filing and editing as a lot to do. But will make a note.
Hello Chris, Great video, I have 3 of the Tesla Model S modules with the original Tesla boards. Is there a 3rd party BMS I can purchase to help keep the cells evenly charged using the original boards? Thanks John
Nissan leaf battery is not that bad for you not to say anything about it. it only needs good thermal management and I am working on it. Thank you for your good work.
Nissan Leaf batteries vary greatly from vehicle to vehicle, depending on the life of the battery alot of degradation can have occurred. Plus they are quite a limited battery interms of power potential, due to their voltage sag.
What would you recommend for a Hyundai Coupe SIII? I want to keep the boot space, and want to look at range at power - would the Tesla model 3 fit? Would it go under the car? Or what would you recommend
Sorry there is not, this is a hole new thing and Porsches is where we have started, hopefully things will go well and will bring a lot more kits to market
Is there a reason there's not more take-up of Yasa motors? They seem ideal for EV conversions but I don't see them used that often. Also at what £/kWh cost would you consider buying a module new rather than used?
The OEs will always drive towards greater integration in order to leverage pack level cost and mas savings, so it's going to become harder to use s/h OE batteries for conversions of ICE architecutre vehicles. But, as battery cell costs fall, and production volumes ramp up, i think more and more aftermarket battery module/pack options will appear! Personally, i'm not a great fan of EV converting existing ICE vehicles because it's really, really hard to get a suitable level of HV safety due to the packaging constraints inherent in a car designed to take an ICE powertrain and not an EV one, but it clearly something that is happening in increasing numbers. In the UK, our Construction & Use laws are WAAAY behind the curve wrt LVDC, so it will be interesting to see what happens to the unfortunately inevitable event where someone is seriously hurt or killed by an EV converted vehicle. That "test" case will likely set a precedent and may cause significant ripples for aftermarket EV conversions.......
Yes your completely correct. We worry about someone hurting them self which is one of the reasons for all these videos want to try and teach people enough that they stay safe.
Has a model 3 aftermarket BMS become available yet or do you know of any in the works? Also has is there many model 3 battery modules out there seem hard to find.
You could do it but it means quite a lot of extra components (loads of complexity) to make sure they work together properly. Finding a balance works out to be the most cost/weight effective.
There's no such thing as "bursts of speed." You can design for a top speed, or an acceleration as primary considerations. Otherwise you wind up with a car that does neither very well. The well kept secret on Teslas is that their acceleration starts to suck badly around 70-80MPH.
I have a 986 that i dreamed of making eletric (the 2.7 flat 6 isn't that wonderful) which brought me to you guys in the first place. If you had to do your 986 conversion over again would you have changed anything?
Zero EV , what kind of batteries would you have then chosen, knowing the space available in the Boxster and the current needed by the Tesla drive-unit?
I am looking at doing a conversion using a full Model 3 suspension install with the small drive unit. What is the minimum battery pack voltage needed to get full performance out of the motor? I understand you do not have sufficient voltage in your Porsche and I hope to avoid that issue. Do you know of a good supplier of the CALB units in the US?
Did you already convert a VW T3 van? Wouldn't have to be fast (about 130kph(Germany, you know), but should end up with a range of 200km. I guess a Model 3 pack...?
I bet a model 3 battery would likely fit well in the bed of a small pickup truck. Hasn't @ hacked the BMS on the Model 3 yet as well as the M3 inverter?
@@xXZ31t6esTXx the structural integrity of the car would be compromised. You are allowed to put batteries inside, in the front(bonnet) or in the boot. Anywhere underneath, a strong metal container should be used. Funny thing, in Africa, no laws, it's entirely up to you.
Unfortunately Zero-EV does not have any experience with any voltage above 400v. However the general rule is the higher the voltage the less current is required to get the power, thus the smaller wiring/busbars/controllers become thus saving weight and potentially cost. The higher voltage and less current also bring increased efficiency with it.
Two questions: are voltage requirements dictated by the motor's requirements just? And say in the case of the Tesla or bolt you shown, how are the battery modules connected to each other? Series?
This is definitely a dumb question but could one purchase a complete pack from a used Tesla And just hook it up to a ev (van) conversion? I'm not really worried about the size of the pack more so unsure how the bms communicates with Tesla's computer and if the pack cares what it's hooked up to.
Can you help me out? I want to convert a Nissan Patrol longbody from 1987. I think I want to use Tesla modules but I'm not sure. Right now we want about 50km (30miles) of range, which would be about 4 Tesla 5.3KWH modules. I picked these because we will potentially want to upgrade the range later on, once we can figure out if this is something we like. Also, do I need water cooling? I'll be using a 3.3KWH charger, and a Hyper 9 motor. Thanks!
@@FelltenSystems but isn't that a little close to the 130V max? I thought the lower the voltage, the safer it is. But 5 modules isn't in our budget anyways. Maybe as a future upgrade!
Hello, I know this video is kinda old but I was looking for some advice on what cells to use. I'm looking for something that can power a small Tesla drive unit, so about 600a peak. It's going in a 70s beetle so I want it to be light, and I'm thinking a 30-40kwh pack will be enough range. Options I have looked into are a BMW i3 pack, Nissan leaf pack, and Kia soul pack. I saw someone using a Kia soul pack and someone using a i3 pack at these currents, but I'm not sure if its a good idea to run those cells this above what they were originally used for. I was also looking at two volt packs as they are cheap and high discharge, but they are also kinda heavy. I don't think I can afford Tesla or LG cells, I really wanna keep the pack below $4k (although I'd like something cheaper, idk if it'll be possible tho) Do you have any recommendations? What do you think about using a leaf, i3, or Kia soul pack at high discharge? Thanks
The leaf cells will be easy to package and build a bespoke pack from plus you can get them very cheap. You could try and find an electric rav4 pack of maybe an id3 battery pack.
@@Tom-evnut where do you get this info? As an MOT tester I haven't come across it. From our perspective it only applies where a structural modification is unsafe (see section 6.2.1 of the mot testers manual). or, in Apendix a of the same manual, "You should reject any modification of panels if: it has significantly reduced the original strength and stiffness of a prescribed area plastics have been used to replace metal in prescribed areas or load-bearing areas If you’re not sure if a modification has affected the strength or stiffness of a prescribed area, you should accept the modification and tell the vehicle presenter. " I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely curious.
Again, what motor , what sort of power level? Have had good experience with the VW GTE hybrid packs, 10kWh 100kw but there are other small ish packs with large power potential out there like the Chevy Volt Gen1.
As Tom has said can you tell us what motor? Is it 300v nominal? You have a few options depending on performance and required battery pack size. B class modules if your not looking for high performance. Vw GTE not very energy dense but power dense and same goes for the 2.5kwh LG Chem 16s modules.
So Long story Short to convert a pre 75 Datusn to get @ 200 hp and 300 miles range how much with safe system monitor control using off the shelf used/refurb parts and many hours of Our labor?
I don’t think you could fit a big enough battery pack. I have looked at my 280z and was going with 300hp model 3 motor and 53kwh battery pack giving about 200 miles range. Plan was then to add ccs fast charging. Parts cost is about 30k
I have a question and I hope that this video isn't already too old that my question might end up getting missed/go unanswered. I have an idea of doing my own ev conversion with a goal of having a long range. Would it be possible/advisable to have 2 LG battery packs (10 LG module packs) wired in parallel with one in the front of the vehicle and one in the back of the vehicle? Basically have 2 battery packs like you all built for the Miata Ev and wire them in parallel in one vehicle. My thinking is you would still have the same battery voltage but would have a longer range.
@@FelltenSystems So your saying it would be better to go with the 2 packs in series with a higher voltage motor then it would be to go with the 2 packs in parallel with a lower voltage system? Thanks for the reply and the information.
@@FelltenSystems ah, and with DC rapid charging the worry of not having a "long range" goes away. Thanks again for the information, I couldn't really find anywhere that went into detail about this (whether or not you should/could have to packs in parallel for increased range). Actually most videos I have found on the subject on youtube really do not go into detail on connecting batteries other then "here is our bus bars" then next scene is the battery connected and in the vehicle with very little information given.
Connecting two packs in parallel can be done but they must bother be at the exact same voltage, have BMS’s and be from the same over all pack. This then reduces the risk of one becoming off bananas or discharge at different rates.
Nope, the whole clue is there is not one correct answer. It all depends on the vehicle and what the goals are of the build. Do you want a fast light car or do you want a slow and steady long range cruiser.
@@FelltenSystems I think they purchased Samsung SDI cells when they built the Hornsdale Power Reserve/the South Australian big battery to back fill their supply, but in the vehicles, they use the internally manufactured Tesla/Panasonic batteries.
@@FelltenSystems kind of, they have a joint venture with Panasonic. Tesla will never do it entirely on their own imo because they need the Li-ion IP from others. Unless they buy one of the big cell manufacturers.
If tesla goes down the route of structural batteries and single casting, wouldn't that mean using tesla batteries would not be an option for EV conversions afterwards?
I have never seen all the battery options next to each other or so clearly explained and compared. Top work! Well done.
Chris, love the work you've put into not only walking us through the literal step-by-step processes of modding our daily drivers into dream machines but also helping us understand the importance of why we need to do it these ways. So many other random channels jumping on the electric bandwagon but you and Josh (and Nick with the MX-5) take the time to make sure we do it right. Thank you.
Thank you for this very useful video. Other topics I'd love to see you cover in future videos: 1) EV Motor options side by side along with voltage requirements, dimensions, and power output. 2) Tesla rear clip dimensions (using the whole assembly: tires, wheels, brakes, suspension, inverter/motor) and any oddities in what it would take to implement. Most importantly being outside edge tire-to-tire width. 3) BMS options. 4) How to deal with power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, and how tesla components compare to other options.
I'd vote for 1 & 3, especially deciding what battery build for each motor and what options for the BMS.
exactly what i was trying to get out of all those bigger automotive channels like b-is-for-build, hoonigans, etc. But I guess they will be clinging to the old ways till the last moment
They just have things to do with the outdated tech.
You would not believe how much I've been needing this video. Thank you!
Absolutely loved this tech talk, very useful information for the EV enthusiast!!
I love that series. Thanks a lot
Great overview, keep them coming, learning heaps from these👍
I can listen to this guy talk all day.
This is really useful in helping a mere pleb like me understand such tech. Thanks.
Love the instruction!
A video about how to choose your BMS (which cell count) would be HUGE. Loved this one
On the Orion website there is a wiring calculator
Thanks for another really helpful video Chris. Keep up the great work.
Bloody brilliant video and fantastic introduction
I love the information. I have a 1981 BMW e12 528i that I would love to convert to ev. It will have to be a long term project though. Thanks for putting out this info. I will use it when I decide to start going on my project.
Excellent video - thanks!
Very cool video -- Clear and helpful
Excellent information!
This is super helpful and informative! Could you please make an update video for options available in 2023?
Not much has actually changed, we have now moved to new battery modules fully away from used stuff.
@@FelltenSystems could you please share your new battery recommendations? I’m in the US if that makes a difference
Subbed and thumbs up! I am planning my build and this was very helpful! Can't wait to look through your other vids,
Question: how do you safely build a battery box? Much appreciated!
Thank you
Another great production by the conversion Guru..Much appreciated ..I guess you sell some of those?
Yep we sell all of them
Thanks for all the information clearly explained. Next time please include dimensions... will be going to check the website for dimensions.
Yeah, if they could made the CAD of each of the batteries from a 3D scan that would be amazing!
There should be some info on the Zero-EV website. If you have a look on grabcad you can find cad for quite a few batteries.
would love to see a video with suggestions for powering the nissan leaf motor, which requires a high voltage.
Hi Chris. What are the external dimensions on the complete model 3 battery box? I am concedering using it over S modules for a current build. Keep the videos coming. Really good info! Thanks again.
I love my B250e! I always wondered what the pack looked like... eventually a kwh upgrade should be available
I don’t think a Kwh upgrade will ever come available. But that pack is actually 36kwh but restricted to 28kwh in the b250e so maybe someone will unlock it at some point
@@FelltenSystems have you seen the Denza models? Lol same car but with a 62kwh hr battery. Mercedes sold it off but it's still being made on the same platform.
Could you please make a similar type of video but on motors. Thank you
Yes that’s a brilliant idea thank you
This is so informative! Should I have any concern with the LG packs and the recent LG cell problems affecting Chevy Bolt and others? Thank you
Zero ev thank you for this helpful video on battery packs.
What setting do you recommend for a range rover classic e conversion?
The cells direct to pack seems to be happening a bit quicker.
Hello, I'm converting a 2002 Ford Escape and I'm at the point of having to make a firm decision on battery pack. Trouble is, the more I research this the more perplexed the whole issue seems. The motor is a warp 9 and I'm looking for around a 100 mile range, vehicle is about 3300 pounds. I don't expect you to do calculations for me, but just maybe your thoughts on which direction to go? Love your videos by the way. Very well structured and informative. Thanks.
Very well explained. I do have a question though. How do I select the motor best suited for the conversion?
You need to work out what power you want and how much you want to spend. Most popular motors for conversions tend to be the Netgain Hyper 9 or one of the Tesla drive motors. Whats it on?
Nice video, great info! Now going to measure up for a pack in a Porsche 550 Spyder kit car. Looking to use the motor from the mitsubishi outlander with gen3 Prius inverter and openinverter control board. Any tips/suggestions?
Watch Damiens latest videos on the Gen3 Inverter.
im not sure if im more confused or less , its put a hold on my ordering 5 of the smaller tesla modules , I think I need to discuss this with you guys further. I have two vehicles up for conversion . firstly is my 1964 Renault caravelle .......she needs a serious restoration first but it would be ideal time to weld in the right supports etc as I do so.....
Please have a look on our web site and send us a message through the form.
thanks for the informational content!
Where do you get all these used parts?
Iam a young student in Germany, specialized on electric vehicles and don´t have the money for new parts :D
I currently convert my electric scooter to a way more powerful one (from1,9kW to >10kW peak).
Great video! Have you looked into BMW Hybrid packs, which seem very attractive - modules 26 or 34 Ah, 59Vnom. Not very expensive, only 5-6 modules give a full voltage even for a small vehicle.
That’s quite interesting we have worked with i3 battery’s but never to hybrid ones
Those are very similar in terms of spec to the VW GTE hybrid pack shown in the Twizy video.
A 12kWhr 200V pack is going to suck pretty severely other than for maybe a motorcycle
Can you tell us bit of your experience with the Volt battery pack in the Skyline? Pros and cons. Thank you for the great content.
Is a grate cheap battery pack, gives full 1200amps output for the Tesla unit but is very large for its Kwh size, the new battery in the skyline is a 60kwh bolt pack.
One not mentioned is BMW I3 pack 60/94/120Ah. Have spare from upgrade (not salvage) fully BMW EOS tested with hex Dec code if interested in UK. Cheers
We just did the talk mainly on what we had in the workshop. The i3 modules are a nice design but quite large.
@@FelltenSystems can be split down quite easily and interesting cooling with HVAC /heatpump
@@TekAutomatica having had experience with these batteries, they are quite chunky, as in the 12 cell modules are hard to mount and break down. Also the power that can be drawn from them is not much more then they are rated for. But good thing someone got the BMS working for them.
Hello, what would you recommend as the lightest/smallest option to run a lightweight drag car based on Tesla Small or Large rear motor. Range is absolutely not an issue as max kWh needed is only in the range of 1.0-2.0. Current out and charge rate in and weight are primary concerns. I researched supercapacitors, but size and cost was prohibitive. Thanks Zero EV for your amazing video information 🙂
Go for hybrid battery’s like Vw golf of Chevy volt.
Thoughts on best kit for a 87 VW Cabrio? I'm mostly worried about weight & space. My father in law does custom metalwork thankfully.
You guys are in England? On the show volts, there using another LG battery, do you know of it? Great video. Enjoying your videos.
Yes they use an LG chem 2.5kwh 1p16s modules
Zero EV you use the more compact modules to get the voltage higher. Thanks for answering.
Be interested to hear your thoughts on large format LiFePo4 prismatics, especially with all the rumour about Tesla/battery day/offering a LiFePo4 pack... I use a pile of the old CALB cells (ex Allied Electric) and although they are old now, they do seem like good cells.
From my own experience, and general chemistruy, LiFePo4 batteries will almost always be less energy (Wh/kg) dense than LiPo, and mostly less power dense (W/g). The biggest advantage of LiFePo4 is they are incredibly safe. I've had a friend blow one up when he was experimenting with a TIG welder for spot welds, and it was very small compared to most LiPo fires I've seen.
@@Dogburt_Junior do you think there is some magical breakthrough that CATL and Tesla have made to enable decent energy densities with the LiFePo4 chemistry? I know at the moment it is all rumour, but I think everything points to them using LiFePo4 in this 'million mile battery'...
@Tristan Peters Why are you comparing LifePO4 with Lipo (Lithium Polymer)? Lipo are mainly used by RC hobbyists.
Question??? I'm wanting to put a small rear tesla drivetrain into a 73 vw single cab. I'm needing 400 volts for that motor i believe. I'm also only needing to go about 90 miles on a charge...what's the best battery option?? I appreciate your service .the video is great.
We now have a 2p6s calb module, if you ran 16 of them will give 350v nominal at 35kwh.
Another GREAT video !! Question: if 3.2v to 4.2v is the approx min and max cell voltages, when not under load, what is the acceptable (ie non damaging) voltage sag ? a) at various SOC % and b) at various % of max current say in a range up to 1000Amps for the various types of modules. I've looked all over the place and this kind of 'real world' / 'we've done it' info is really hard to find........ BUT YOU guys Have done IT [....... Kudos :-) ]
Sag under load gets speced by supplier. For some of our modules we have nice complete datasheets stating this, usually around 2.7V and at lower temps even 2.5V. So sag down to 2.8 - 2.7 would be acceptable, I am sure some Tesla's go lower.
@@Tom-evnut Thanks Tom that's incredibly helpful ... I was working backwards based on a helpful Tesla owner monitoring "260 volts is what my 1525 amp P85DL makes at 30% soc and 110F/43c" which is 2.7v/cell. Thanks for your confirmation.
Love the video. Are there packs that roughly match fuel tank size on older cars? My DS's tank is very rectangular and the width of the car, with about 65L volume
Every car is different so you need to look at actual dimensions to figure out what space you have. Never seen a car conversion where an OEM pack fits unmodified.
50 Kg of fuel gets you two of those Tesla packs or 10kW roughly. That's about 40 miles of range on a good day.
Hey Chris- Do you happen to know the dimensions and weight of the individual Chevy Bolt modules (both the large & smaller modules)? Great video!
Unfortunately I do not
This video came at the perfect time, thank you! I’m converting a 1971 Range rover as part of a ground-up resto-mod. I’d love to use your products and services. Do you offer any form of consultation to nudge customers in the right direction and help them compile a comprehensive shopping list?
We always offer help when we have time. Please feel free to message us though our website
Hi, nice work dude, congratulations! I am thinking to put an Hyper 9 Hv in an 4runner 2001, so do you think is a good idea or I need something more powerful ? What kind of batteries will go fine with this work? Tank you!
I would go with the LG modules as we have used in the mx5 build just add a few more modules to increase the voltage
Hi,
Vera interesting video!
I’m planning to ev convert my VW Bettle oval 1956.
And need some good pointers regarding the choice of the right battery pack.
I’m thinking 120 or 144V.
I saw a EU-company placing battery packs under the floor in their VW Beetle conversion. Which i thought was interesting.
I’m thinking more of commute Rhen power. But I do want power as well. So range and power are splitting the Nr 2 and 3 spot.
Love to hear your thoughts.
// Kind Regards Michael (Sweden)
There has been a lot of Beatles converted over the years so by far we are not the experts on those.
For home power storage, which is the best dollar per kwh pack?
Great video very informative- subscribed 👍🏼
The b class
It depends if you're in the US or Europe where to source your cells. Lowest price I've seen is $89 at BatteryHookup for 10S3P Chevy Bolt modules, which have since sold out. The top 10 batteries cheapest batteries I've seen have been on Batteryhookup. The next best thing doesn't come around until $155/kWh.
Great information! I'm planning high power conversion to a very small and light vehicle. I think the LG 16s 2.6 kWh module that for example EV West sells in US would be close to perfect for my needs, but is there anything similar available in Europe? With 6 of those modules I would get 60.8V*6=365V, 2.6kWh*6=15.6kWh and 17.25kg*6=104kg. Peak discharge current is stated to be 800A. This would be good for small Tesla drive unit or Model 3 drive unit in the future when somebody provides a solution to control it. Any suggestions for a similar pack with modules available from Europe? I have heard that there is a way to modify Tesla modules to provide double voltage but it would still be likely too heavy pack for my car. Low voltage motors on the other hand don't seem to provide the performance I want.
You could look at Vw or bmw hybrid packs they would probably work quite well. Don’t recommend doing the 12s mod to Tesla model as you don’t gain anything as the can’t output high amps without heave voltage sag.
Great tech talk Chris! The LG Chem & is it Calb (?) equivalent product what are their ‘model’ numbers? Can’t find many details on the net for them.
We have the LG on our web site and will have calb on there in 2 weeks. The LG are directly from oem contract we have so only set info we can share on them but do have over 1000 coming in.
LG Chem N2.1 is what is used in the Chevy Bolt.
I have a 2011 honda ridgeline I would love to do a tesla swap to. Plenty of room in the trunk under the bed and in the engine bay. Wonder how many modules could fit.
You would need quite a lot for a good range.
Hi Chris, a Mercedes B250... B250E , (2016) what could you use
Any tips on what types of motor would be good to do a budget ev swap on a subaru? Drivetrain is kinda heavy. Was looking into forklift motors but want to stay away from lead acid batteries
Something like hyper9 set up is good but still going to be over 15k buy the time you have everything
Interesting and very informative. I am considering buying a Mercedes B 250e and was wondering if you can retrofit a rapid charging facility (CHAdeMo or CCS) on to the B-class? Also, are the B-Class batteries capable of rapid charging?
Yes and yes there is a company in California that sell a chademo upgrade
@@FelltenSystems I bet you are referring to QC Charge
what would be a good battery for a lotus elise which is converted to electric with a model 3 rear motor. Is it possible to "mount" the batterypacks just to the floor of the car inside the pasenger cabin and build a "lid" obove it? For lower center of mass.
You need 225kw peak output so a 53kWh CALB pack or if you went for a 35kwh pack would be limited to 180kw motor peak
What i really wanna see now is the cost of a full conversion without the hand labour (i know it can variate because of the batteries we chose and the motor etc.)
At the end of each complete conversion series we will go through the cost
@@FelltenSystems Thanks, really looking foward to it. Keep up the awesome job ;)
I have purchased the swind mini kit 80kw for my classic mini, suggestion on battery pack?
looking for range, performance and longevity. Thanks mate , great video!
We do offer the CALB modules in 2p6s configuration run 16 in series will give you 35kwh
IMEXTREMIS are you vlogging your build?
@@chargeheadsuk I am planning to yes. Still in the planning stages at the moment mate, hence my question. Thank you for the interest, it mean a lot
Great video again - you're very natural on camera and explain things very clearly, BUT you could do with tightening up on being precise with your words... You did spot and correct in the edit the slip you made with the energy vs power density, but there were also a couple of places you said kW when you meant kWh - one of my bugbears! I don't doubt for a moment you know the difference, but there are a lot of people out there that are confused by it, so it's important to be accurate
Yep your correct, I jump between kw, Kwh and kwp every day depending on the items I am speaking to customers about. To be honest it’s the last thing I think about when filing and editing as a lot to do. But will make a note.
how much is the ev kit for the 911 and where do you buy it?
Hello Chris, Great video, I have 3 of the Tesla Model S modules with the original Tesla boards. Is there a 3rd party BMS I can purchase to help keep the cells evenly charged using the original boards? Thanks John
Simp BMS can do that for you.
@@Tom-evnut Thanks I will check it out.
Yes as Tom said definitely use the Simp BMS
can you keep the original bms with the bolt pack, or do you have to swap it with an aftermarket item?
From our experience you need to replace but company’s like simpbms have done control of original bms systems in the past
what would you use for a pontiac fiero conversion with a model s large unit motor? the main objective is power.
I would recommend Chevy bolt battery pack.
Nissan leaf battery is not that bad for you not to say anything about it. it only needs good thermal management and I am working on it. Thank you for your good work.
The issue with Leaf cells, is at least in the US, the used modules have less than 70% capacity left.
Nissan Leaf batteries vary greatly from vehicle to vehicle, depending on the life of the battery alot of degradation can have occurred. Plus they are quite a limited battery interms of power potential, due to their voltage sag.
What would you recommend for a Hyundai Coupe SIII? I want to keep the boot space, and want to look at range at power - would the Tesla model 3 fit? Would it go under the car? Or what would you recommend
There is no easy solution, you would not fit a model 3 pack under the car.
What would you advice as a battery pack for Jeep Wrangler 2-dr model?
Hi, all depends on your requirements, go though the list of 6 and see what options you come out with.
hi,I'm now looking at a Citroen H van conversion, so weight/size is an issue. i would like 40kw .
There is a few options depending on the voltage range you are running. I
Is it possible to change Peugeot ION battery to increase its range? With something like you show in the bid?
Unfortunately something like that is not easy
I'm wanting to put a hyper 9 in a Morris minor, suggestions on the pack?
We like using 10 of our LG modules in series like in our mx5 build
Chris, is there a “plug and play” conversions kit I could use to make a 2012 MB C250 conversion?
Sorry there is not, this is a hole new thing and Porsches is where we have started, hopefully things will go well and will bring a lot more kits to market
Is there a reason there's not more take-up of Yasa motors? They seem ideal for EV conversions but I don't see them used that often. Also at what £/kWh cost would you consider buying a module new rather than used?
Yasa are expensive and require a large inverter from another manufacturer plus a controller there not the easiest to use.
The OEs will always drive towards greater integration in order to leverage pack level cost and mas savings, so it's going to become harder to use s/h OE batteries for conversions of ICE architecutre vehicles. But, as battery cell costs fall, and production volumes ramp up, i think more and more aftermarket battery module/pack options will appear! Personally, i'm not a great fan of EV converting existing ICE vehicles because it's really, really hard to get a suitable level of HV safety due to the packaging constraints inherent in a car designed to take an ICE powertrain and not an EV one, but it clearly something that is happening in increasing numbers. In the UK, our Construction & Use laws are WAAAY behind the curve wrt LVDC, so it will be interesting to see what happens to the unfortunately inevitable event where someone is seriously hurt or killed by an EV converted vehicle. That "test" case will likely set a precedent and may cause significant ripples for aftermarket EV conversions.......
Yes your completely correct. We worry about someone hurting them self which is one of the reasons for all these videos want to try and teach people enough that they stay safe.
Has a model 3 aftermarket BMS become available yet or do you know of any in the works? Also has is there many model 3 battery modules out there seem hard to find.
Not a good solution as of yet. There should be quite a few battery’s around
Can you use different batteries based on intended use? Like bursts of speed pulling from one battery pack and steady speed pulled from another?
You could do it but it means quite a lot of extra components (loads of complexity) to make sure they work together properly. Finding a balance works out to be the most cost/weight effective.
There's no such thing as "bursts of speed." You can design for a top speed, or an acceleration as primary considerations. Otherwise you wind up with a car that does neither very well. The well kept secret on Teslas is that their acceleration starts to suck badly around 70-80MPH.
I have a 986 that i dreamed of making eletric (the 2.7 flat 6 isn't that wonderful) which brought me to you guys in the first place. If you had to do your 986 conversion over again would you have changed anything?
Probably would of use different battery’s as the current ones do not allow full performance
Zero EV , what kind of batteries would you have then chosen, knowing the space available in the Boxster and the current needed by the Tesla drive-unit?
Is there a way to calculate ballpark range from battery output?
Most people base there calculations on 250watts per mile but wish larger vehicles is more like 350watts per mile
I am looking at doing a conversion using a full Model 3 suspension install with the small drive unit. What is the minimum battery pack voltage needed to get full performance out of the motor? I understand you do not have sufficient voltage in your Porsche and I hope to avoid that issue. Do you know of a good supplier of the CALB units in the US?
We ship world wide. ship to the US every week. You will want 350v nominal so 24 3p4s modules.
Did you already convert a VW T3 van? Wouldn't have to be fast (about 130kph(Germany, you know), but should end up with a range of 200km. I guess a Model 3 pack...?
Not sure if a model 3 pack would fit.
Where can we find details of the Calb batteries and cooling plates?
On our web site
Have you ever converted an Opel Zafira? If So is it difficult?
No we have not.
I bet a model 3 battery would likely fit well in the bed of a small pickup truck. Hasn't @ hacked the BMS on the Model 3 yet as well as the M3 inverter?
We have a drive unit system in testing and Damian maguire is working on a bms
How are you guys cooling the bolt modules?
We have liquid cooling plates, see mx5 episode 1 the plate are shown on there.
Have you ever considered removing the floor of an existing project car and incorporating a complete model 3 battery module?
Is that possible?
We would but unfortunately for road use is not allowed. We have done stunt cars with complete packs in the floor.
@@FelltenSystems why is it not allowed?
@@xXZ31t6esTXx in Europe it is usually illegal to make structural modifications to the frame of a vehicle.
@@xXZ31t6esTXx the structural integrity of the car would be compromised. You are allowed to put batteries inside, in the front(bonnet) or in the boot. Anywhere underneath, a strong metal container should be used. Funny thing, in Africa, no laws, it's entirely up to you.
Can you talk about 800v systems like in the taycan, regera and gemera? Why go 800v vs 400v
Higher voltage means lower amps so less copper which = less weight
Unfortunately Zero-EV does not have any experience with any voltage above 400v. However the general rule is the higher the voltage the less current is required to get the power, thus the smaller wiring/busbars/controllers become thus saving weight and potentially cost. The higher voltage and less current also bring increased efficiency with it.
Two questions: are voltage requirements dictated by the motor's requirements just? And say in the case of the Tesla or bolt you shown, how are the battery modules connected to each other? Series?
There a mix the bolt is a 3p96s
@@FelltenSystems sorry, I mean the 5 big packs you showed
Yes in the bolt the 5 modules are connected in series. The voltage required is based on inverter requirements.
@@FelltenSystems Thanks. Loving the videos
This is definitely a dumb question but could one purchase a complete pack from a used Tesla
And just hook it up to a ev (van) conversion? I'm not really worried about the size of the pack more so unsure how the bms communicates with Tesla's computer and if the pack cares what it's hooked up to.
Yes if you buy a pack controller. I think ev tv sells something
@@FelltenSystems thanks for the info!
Hi
There is a Tesla 3 battery management module available for EV conversion ?
Yes we have one in testing but works with the complete pack with charger and dcdc
Do you have a DIY pdf book with instructions on how to EV convert?
Not a complete book know. We do have a user guide fir our product at the bottom of our web site
@@FelltenSystems Thanks for the info and replying.
Can you help me out? I want to convert a Nissan Patrol longbody from 1987. I think I want to use Tesla modules but I'm not sure. Right now we want about 50km (30miles) of range, which would be about 4 Tesla 5.3KWH modules. I picked these because we will potentially want to upgrade the range later on, once we can figure out if this is something we like. Also, do I need water cooling? I'll be using a 3.3KWH charger, and a Hyper 9 motor.
Thanks!
Would recommend doing 5 modules so you have a slightly higher voltage. We always recommend water cooling to keep all cells the same temperature
@@FelltenSystems but isn't that a little close to the 130V max? I thought the lower the voltage, the safer it is. But 5 modules isn't in our budget anyways. Maybe as a future upgrade!
Hello, I know this video is kinda old but I was looking for some advice on what cells to use. I'm looking for something that can power a small Tesla drive unit, so about 600a peak. It's going in a 70s beetle so I want it to be light, and I'm thinking a 30-40kwh pack will be enough range. Options I have looked into are a BMW i3 pack, Nissan leaf pack, and Kia soul pack. I saw someone using a Kia soul pack and someone using a i3 pack at these currents, but I'm not sure if its a good idea to run those cells this above what they were originally used for.
I was also looking at two volt packs as they are cheap and high discharge, but they are also kinda heavy. I don't think I can afford Tesla or LG cells, I really wanna keep the pack below $4k (although I'd like something cheaper, idk if it'll be possible tho)
Do you have any recommendations? What do you think about using a leaf, i3, or Kia soul pack at high discharge? Thanks
The leaf cells will be easy to package and build a bespoke pack from plus you can get them very cheap. You could try and find an electric rav4 pack of maybe an id3 battery pack.
@@FelltenSystems that's what I'm thinking, my main concern is idk if it will be able to put out the 600a needed without getting really hot
hello Chris, what is the voltage you use in your skyline to run the tesla large drive train? thx
96s so 350 nominal
It’s a complete bolt pack
Is it legal (in the UK) to cut the floor out of the boot for a battery box (sheet metal only)?
Great Vid as always BTW.
Legally you cannot change/modify the chassis, thus it would be a no. However DVLA do not ask for proof.
@@Tom-evnut is the boot floor counted as the chassis if no rails are cut?
@@alibro7512 Any irreversible change to the structure (anything metal or plastic that does not unbolt) is counted.
@@Tom-evnut where do you get this info? As an MOT tester I haven't come across it. From our perspective it only applies where a structural modification is unsafe (see section 6.2.1 of the mot testers manual). or, in Apendix a of the same manual, "You should reject any modification of panels if: it has significantly reduced the original strength and stiffness of a prescribed area
plastics have been used to replace metal in prescribed areas or load-bearing areas
If you’re not sure if a modification has affected the strength or stiffness of a prescribed area, you should accept the modification and tell the vehicle presenter. "
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely curious.
whats your battery recommendation for a high voltage motor that needs 300v, and will be installed in a small car?
Again, what motor , what sort of power level? Have had good experience with the VW GTE hybrid packs, 10kWh 100kw but there are other small ish packs with large power potential out there like the Chevy Volt Gen1.
As Tom has said can you tell us what motor? Is it 300v nominal? You have a few options depending on performance and required battery pack size. B class modules if your not looking for high performance. Vw GTE not very energy dense but power dense and same goes for the 2.5kwh LG Chem 16s modules.
It's a meiden motor from a mitsubishi outlander 60kw
So Long story Short to convert a pre 75 Datusn to get @ 200 hp and 300 miles range how much with safe system monitor control using off the shelf used/refurb parts and many hours of Our labor?
I don’t think you could fit a big enough battery pack. I have looked at my 280z and was going with 300hp model 3 motor and 53kwh battery pack giving about 200 miles range. Plan was then to add ccs fast charging. Parts cost is about 30k
What do you guys think the next battery technology advancement will be?
I would say semi solid state.
Zero EV: How far away, and will it be less expensive?
I have a question and I hope that this video isn't already too old that my question might end up getting missed/go unanswered. I have an idea of doing my own ev conversion with a goal of having a long range. Would it be possible/advisable to have 2 LG battery packs (10 LG module packs) wired in parallel with one in the front of the vehicle and one in the back of the vehicle? Basically have 2 battery packs like you all built for the Miata Ev and wire them in parallel in one vehicle. My thinking is you would still have the same battery voltage but would have a longer range.
Yes that will work and it has been done before. But if you went with a 350v drive motor system then you could have a larger pack all in series
@@FelltenSystems So your saying it would be better to go with the 2 packs in series with a higher voltage motor then it would be to go with the 2 packs in parallel with a lower voltage system? Thanks for the reply and the information.
Yes this is because a high voltage set up will allow you to add dc rapid charging in the future
@@FelltenSystems ah, and with DC rapid charging the worry of not having a "long range" goes away. Thanks again for the information, I couldn't really find anywhere that went into detail about this (whether or not you should/could have to packs in parallel for increased range). Actually most videos I have found on the subject on youtube really do not go into detail on connecting batteries other then "here is our bus bars" then next scene is the battery connected and in the vehicle with very little information given.
Connecting two packs in parallel can be done but they must bother be at the exact same voltage, have BMS’s and be from the same over all pack. This then reduces the risk of one becoming off bananas or discharge at different rates.
If cost isn’t factored in, is the Tesla 100kw battery the best all rounder?
Nope, the whole clue is there is not one correct answer. It all depends on the vehicle and what the goals are of the build. Do you want a fast light car or do you want a slow and steady long range cruiser.
@@Tom-evnut Can you please tell us how to choose the correct battery type
@@jatinmali9310 All application dependent as mentioned in this video.
Does Tesla produce batteries in-house now? I thought Tesla just purchased them from Samsung or some other companies.
They have always produced there own batterys
@@FelltenSystems I think they purchased Samsung SDI cells when they built the Hornsdale Power Reserve/the South Australian big battery to back fill their supply, but in the vehicles, they use the internally manufactured Tesla/Panasonic batteries.
@@FelltenSystems kind of, they have a joint venture with Panasonic. Tesla will never do it entirely on their own imo because they need the Li-ion IP from others. Unless they buy one of the big cell manufacturers.
If tesla goes down the route of structural batteries and single casting, wouldn't that mean using tesla batteries would not be an option for EV conversions afterwards?
You are correct which is why we have moved our focus to the calb and LG modules