Benstoeger.com Benstoegerproshop.com for gear PSTG.US for in person classes and digital coaching Ben Stoeger books on Amazon: www.amazon.com... Podcast from pstg: traininggroupl...
Front Sight teaches (or taught when my family took a 3 day pistol class) reset riding. Definitely causing a lot of problems now that I’ve started seriously training. It’s great for getting a bunch of yokels to hit every shot, but none of us are capable of more than 1.5-2 shots a second. Thanks for the help
I used to think the reset was important. Then I saw a slow motion video of Jerry Miculek… He drops the trigger completely. And I realised I just need to train more trigger pull, not trigger release.
Wow, it never occurred to me that not riding the trigger could even be a thing (apart from revolvers). That's why Mr. Stoeger's content is so great. It's really thought provoking and trailblazing. I also never thought target focus is a thing outside very close ranges. Saw a few of Ben's videos, switched to target focus and will never go back. Thanks for putting all this out there!!
One thing I noticed is when I bought a 1911 in 45acp and started shooting that for a little bit and then immediately transitioned back over to my 9 mm Glock I was able to shoot my Glock better because the 45 has taught me greater recoil control. It almost feels like going from 45->9mm is like 9mm->22lr
Hey Ben, first off great job with the videos you're putting out. Very informative and enjoying each one. Keep up the good work. I agree with your comments on trigger reset. I've been in LE since the 80's and when we made the transition from revolvers to semi-autos trigger reset was hammered home. It stayed that way for many years even as I became an instructor for my department we were taught to teach trigger reset to our students. It's only been the past few years that the instructor level and USPSA classes that I've attended have gotten away from trigger reset and now teach coming off and then re-engaging the trigger for each shot. I've found that it is a much better way to "run" a gun. Faster, more efficient. I may use it if I'm sighting in an optic for a rifle from a bench but that's about it. Training and techniques grow and evolve over the years. There is a reason why we don't shoot K frames from the Weaver position anymore. Keep up the good work.
Riding the reset can also lead to pinning the trigger. Since an attempt at exactly locating the reset point requires very precise finger movement, it's tempting to postpone that movement until after the gun has completed the recoil cycle and is more or less stabilized and back on target. So instead of using the "dead time" when the gun is recoiling and moving back on target to simultaneously release the trigger and start pulling it again, you wait till the gun becomes steady and only then start the release - "hunt the reset" - pull cycle.
I see a lot of folks who ride the reset internalize the reset as the signal to shoot, so they often end up either (1) not making shooting decisions based on appropriate visual information or (2) having to do more trigger work after getting the appropriate visual confirmation (vision => reset => pull vs. just vision => pull)
I used to ride the reset and teach that as well, As I got better at shooting, especially faster, Instead of leading the trigger to the reset, I just release the tension in my shooting finger after the trigger breaks and then the trigger moves my finger to the reset. Helped me shoot faster, more accurately, and fixed my trigger freeze problem.
This was GREAT! I think one of least discussed topics but super important. I am not fast but want to train the best way. I had tried reset shooting with catching the reset in recoil and ended up with firing when I didn't plan to. Like to know what the really great shooters do. Happy to work on my other fundamentals to allow for a better trigger technique.
When in a situation where you need to put lead on target. Your going to want to make sure you're being accurate more than listening or feeling for some tiny click before you pull the trigger however is comfortable for you. That's sweating the small stuff during life or death, that's a distraction, that's a death.
In my (beginner) brain, riding the reset isn't a way to shoot faster by minimizing finger travel but a mechanism to prep the trigger. If I'm going to make a (for me) difficult shot, I'm going to take out the slack to prep the trigger and then roll through the break and so by riding the reset, I arrive at that prepped trigger point without fully resetting. You talked about not ridding the reset and instead letting the trigger fully reset and so my question is, do you take out the pre-travel in the trigger before committing to a shot or is your trigger press one fluid motion?
Pretty sure Ben means one fluid motion and/or rolling all the way through the trigger each time. Not stopping at the reset 'wall' and then finishing the trigger pull after more confirmation. Ben rolls through the trigger no stopping, fast as possible for close targets, boom-boom, and a slower press-roll-through on longer distances like 20-25 yards. But he doesn't try and find the reset wall again for the second shot. He lets the trigger out all the way each time no matter the distances. My take anyway.
When I started working at shooting faster for matches, I punted on riding the reset. I thought it was me. Glad to know I did the right corrective action. Good video.
Hi Ben.I am no expert and soak up all your teachings which definitely made me better.My question:Does the big hype of expensive after market triggers really then make such a big difference e.g shorter take up,very short reset ,lighter trigger pull and and.I fully agree riding the reset is definitely does not work for me.
Once I did a 3 days course of C.A.R. System, and at the end of the course we had to be able to put at least 6 shots in center mass in less than 1 sec, at close distance, for sure. I learned that day that riding the reset could cause you problems, because I saw some people failing at the first tries just for pulling the trigger before the reset. You lose more time if you cannot reset the trigger than going all the way back and forth.
@@lon242 yes 😂 but I didn't do it because of the movie... and in the movie he doesn't do the technique correctly. It's a very interesting technique to learn and to have in the repertory. I did with a former student of Paul Castle. There are lots of fake instructors out there.
@@lovetopew9054 I think you have problems of reading or understanding things. I never said I did the bill drill in less than 1 sec. I said we had to be able to put 6 rounds in center mass in less than 1 sec. And I did in 0.75, using the CAR system technique. But in the test we were holding the gun, ready to shoot, pointing at the target, at close distance, like I said. The instructor puts 8 rounds in less than 1 sec... I saw it. There are things that are possible even if YOU can't do it.
You definitely know what you're talking about. I participate in a completely different sport than you do but this is maybe the 3rd or 4th video I've seen where you've said something I mostly agree with or have found out through my own insights. Have you thought about trying to condense some of these concepts into RUclips shorts? They tend to get more exposure I find
I think one of the things that has caused this issue is also the way some of these Striker guns have been marketed, the high emphasis on trigger reset that is. About 10 years ago it was really in the Vogue to use the excuse of I just can't shoot that platform well because of the trigger reset bro no, you just can't shoot well bro. People thought trigger reset on a specific gun would be a substitute for skill
Never heard of doing this in my entire shooting life untill about the 2013 hardcore toob 0p3r8r bloom. It's stupid as hell, and if you grew up shooting certain rifles the trigger slap they'd give you for doing that would train it right out of you.
Dry firing practice I am conscious, deliberate, and slower with my trigger sequence trying to keep might sights as still as possible, so during said practice I do ride back to reset, but during actually shooting I tend to roll through the trigger pull and lift my finger off during reset.
Ben thanks for the videos!!! I’m a little confused by this particular video… most likely due to the term “riding the reset”. In your POV is “riding the reset” the same as an “inflight reset”? I ask because you stated that there are those that listen for the click of the reset as part of their process for trigger management…. One performing inflight resets could never hear or feel the point of the reset; it’s just there, ready for the next press. Could you help me with this? I enjoy learning from your insights and experience, literally has changed my process and performance significantly!!! Thanks!
I was taught to ride the reset in the Navy, and it helps with control for staying on target during pistol qualifications. But, I've noticed at the range recently that it sometimes results in a dead trigger, it happened on two different guns the same range day recently, the trigger never reset, it just stayed all the way back until I racked the slide again. Won't be riding the reset any more.
hahaha, i was going to comment how fucked up i got when I picked up a hi power and I was used to riding the reset. A few times no boom because I never let the gun reset.
We teach riding the reset in positional rifle shooting The pistol curriculum began as copy-pasta from the rifle curriculum and is in rapid development (as rapidly as anything can happen in a large widely dispersed organization of passionate volunteers) This is one of the areas in which it the two are or will soon be differentiated
@BobSutterfield1 I mean, it definitely helped me get pistoleer. Appleseed is just a much finer standard of accuracy than most modern handgun sports. Which in some ways is great, because now moving into USPSA, I tend to have fairly tight groups most of the time. I'm just much slower than I would like to be.
@@Colonel_Flanders For positional rifle shooting (CMP, Appleseed, etc) the emphasis is "be as accurate as possible within the fixed time allotted" For dynamic pistol shooting (USPSA etc) the focus is "don't be any more accurate than necessary because it will slow you down" My own hard-to-break rifle habit is getting a perfect, stable sight picture before releasing the shot.
Hmmm interesting. I was taught trigger riding and my weakness certainly isn’t trigger speed (I have plenty of other shooting weaknesses) I haven’t ever really found myself short stroking, usually when I have a trigger freeze it’s due to pinning the trigger back. I’ve even found the big risk with riding the trigger is accidentally on occasion bumpfiring the weapon. 🤔
Like in everything, there are levels to any game. Years ago, I believed in this process because on paper it made sense. This is one of those many examples of how what we think we are doing and what we are doing can be two different things. After studying video footage of myself, I notice when I was shooting low percentage targets at speed, my trigger control was not what I thought it was. My finger was most defiantly coming all the way off the trigger then rolling through the break. A controlled slap is how I define it. Shooting high percentage targets that required more confirmation, I was manipulating the trigger differently than when shooting low percentage shoots, but my finger was still coming all the way off the trigger. At no time was my finger just going to the point of reset. Videos reveal what's actually happening and should be part of everyone's training. This changed how I thought about trigger control. Your feelings will most defiantly lie to you.
Totally right! Just a short example: lift your trigger finger 2 mm from the desk and dry to knock at it as fast as you can. Than lift your finger 10mm from the desk and try it again. You will see that the second try is faster! With the first one your finger would be pretty stiffed.
I am an IPSC shooter, sometimes Standard, but mostly Production Optics. For me, it makes sense to stay on the trigger point with the DA in certain situations. However, I wouldn't want to do that with a Glock, as it would be too touchy for me. With the CZ's DA, it does make sense if you're shooting at a series of targets, blades or a swinger, for example.
I agree. In a self defense situation, absolutely no one has the time or ability to 'LISTEN for the click, and FEEL the trigger reset'. For some applications, like distance target shooting, it could be 'fine', but training to ride the reset for any other application doesn't make sense
When needing to go fast, I press the trigger at the speed I tell myself to. I believe there is a time for explicit learning and implicit learning. The problem is many people stay in the explicit learning stage.
I started off by riding the reset, then I was watching a video by Mil-Spec Mojo where he talked about resetting during recoil in order to be able to shoot faster, and not letting the reset dictate the next shot. I am still working on resetting without riding the reset, just need more time with it. Most of us can shoot faster than we realize, we just need to get comfortable running at that speed.
Wow, a guy who lost his job because he thought he knew better about the COVID vaccine and ultimately turned out to be wrong about the it is also wrong about pistol shooting techniques. Who would have thought…
He is 100%.correct. Speaking of shooting fast....we did some drills on the range and you see shooters that can send 3 or 4 rounds pretty fast and then they pause for some reason. LE stats for 2023 are 3 to 5 rounds, 3 to 5 yards, in 3 to 5 seconds.
The school of thought that I've heard used for riding the trigger reset was partially for mitigating the amount of muzzle movement during the involuntary response of flinching. My guess is that you're school of thought is to mitigate the flinching in other ways? Having listened to some of your videos, i'm trying to understand how you would solve this problem and i'm guessing its more of a point of aim issue or overworking the gun type issue rather than trigger control?
I learned to shoot Glocks this way too, can induce doubles or bumpfire on a light single stage semi auto rifle trigger like the Tapco G2 or S3G with this technique.
I see the term "pining" the trigger coming up. Pinning the trigger is something long range rifle shooters are concerned with. I think you should pull a pistols trigger until it goes bang. If you shoot a few thousand rounds a week you can learn your trigger to the point where you can ride it without short stroking it. For the rest of us give it some air and jerk it again, just jerk it without moving your sights. Anyone else see a fresh faced, short haired Ben in the first season of Top Shot? Barely recognized him.
I enjoy watching your videos and have learned alot but one thing about riding the re set I bing asked by the RO to spread the shots out. Also I shoot caniks also.
With a quality 2011 trigger letting all the way off is faster by a lot. With a striker gun (stock glockish) it seems to slow me down a good bit. For me just depends on the gun.
Most of my pistols have SRT however I never focus on the reset as mush as the front sight dropping back on target and firing again. Aim small and hit small.
It seems like some of the advice given to beginner pistol shooters is then cast away once you get to a higher level. Like riding the reset or focusing on the front sight when you should have target focus depending on target distance/difficulty.
I agree with Ben on this eventhough I get better accuracy if i ride the trigger. Riding the trigger on a semi auto is kinda like stacking a double action revolver trigger just to the point before the hammer falling and keeping the trigger there until you decide to shoot. I dont think this is a very good technique. I also think that riding the reset may cause issues if you have to use another person's gun or if you have to transition to another gun.
the whole thing of people being obsessed with trigger resets triggers me 😂. I used to work at a gun store and people wanted to hear that loud click and I don't care. I only care about take up travel and how the pull feels
I put hundreds of thousands of rounds through 1911s in Open (1990s) . Later I switched to a Glock and shot Production/IDPA. I decided to shoot limited, and got a 2011. The way I learned to shoot the Glock really screwed me over when I went back to 1911 style triggers. I started bump firing when at extreme close range shooting fastest. It took a year for me to work it out. I still haven't shaken it completely, I need to do a custom trigger job on my 1911's, or I still get the occasional bump fire. TL/DR: Don't ride the reset.
what I always see is them pulling the trigger the instant it resets, rather than resetting earlier and lining up before pulling the next shot. doesn't seem like a good way to be accurate and deliberate seems like you should release the trigger during recoil, and then pull the trigger as your dot hits the next target.
The optimal thing is to have your finger at the minimal position required to allow a reset. People focus a lot on their trigger pull. How are you supposed to develop a feel for how a trigger resets without deliberately feeling how the trigger behaves on the way out. So if the argument is there is a better way than riding the reset sure I can agree with that but how are you going to get there?
Ive thought the same thing when heard the ride the reset idea....i wanted to know how in zuess Bhole they exspect to hear the click if wearing ear pro while firing a gun much less feel each reset durin rapid fire. Ive got good ear pro and have never heard my resest when doin any rapid fire lol
I am still a novice. But I imagine that if you are going really fast it’s not realistic to focus on your reset when you should be focused on other things.
I was told to only pull the trigger with the tip of my finger. I see you use the joint of your finger. Assuming thats fine and what i was told is wrong?
Would completely agree. I ride resets natually as ive done it for so long. It will turn u into a "triggger snob". U find out your shortcomings with stock da/sa guns as the majority dont instantly reset after DA pull, especially CZs. Really want to see us short stroke a trigger put a revolver in our hand. Lol
Techniques exist on a spectrum: the way you shoot a target 1m away is completely different to the way you would shoot a target 1000m away. The problem comes when people try to learn/teach shooting faster by just doing long range techniques more quickly. Pin and reset is important for trigger control and follow through at distance. Riding the reset is misapplication of that technique at speed. Slap the shit out of the trigger, to paraphrase Rob Leatham.
Ehhhhh I see what you’re saying.. but I don’t agree. I don’t see any positive in moving your finger twice as far as needed. Taking your finger off the trigger while shooting fast, sounds like you could be shooting faster. I’m going to film myself shooting a sub 2 second Billy. In slow motion. I’ll tag you, and we can discuss the results.
This is a competition versus defensive issue, and I've gotten to the point where I lose respect for an instructor if they waste much time on this weird fetish. The only instructors I've had pushing this reset thing are defensive instructors who either don't compete at all or are very mediocre competitors. And competition is where the rubber meets the road. Competition instructors are concerned about grip and sight picture, and don't seem to think much about reset. Sure, I want my triggers to have reasonably short resets, but besides that, I need to focus on grip and sight picture, and learned to not think about the reset at all. Stoeger's first book actually confirmed my conclusions and helped me get past the nonsense. And his ideas have not been contradicted since then as I watch and talk to higher-level shooters.
Speak something about how to do speed follow up shots, Ben. I mean should I train like a maniac until I learn that? Sounds like a expensive skill to master.
Man your insights are invaluable. I’ve been training to reset but makes so much sense how further into training that could actually hinder my performance and leave me at a hurdle that is difficult to overcome.
Front Sight teaches (or taught when my family took a 3 day pistol class) reset riding. Definitely causing a lot of problems now that I’ve started seriously training.
It’s great for getting a bunch of yokels to hit every shot, but none of us are capable of more than 1.5-2 shots a second.
Thanks for the help
I used to think the reset was important. Then I saw a slow motion video of Jerry Miculek… He drops the trigger completely. And I realised I just need to train more trigger pull, not trigger release.
What's a reset? We only slap here
slappa da trigga
@@9voltbatterySlap da Glock
Slappy Slap!!!
They call me Slappy McSlappington...
Wow, it never occurred to me that not riding the trigger could even be a thing (apart from revolvers).
That's why Mr. Stoeger's content is so great. It's really thought provoking and trailblazing.
I also never thought target focus is a thing outside very close ranges. Saw a few of Ben's videos, switched to target focus and will never go back.
Thanks for putting all this out there!!
Miculek is an example of coming off the trigger fully in slow mo footage, but i believe has explained riding the reset.
One thing I noticed is when I bought a 1911 in 45acp and started shooting that for a little bit and then immediately transitioned back over to my 9 mm Glock I was able to shoot my Glock better because the 45 has taught me greater recoil control.
It almost feels like going from 45->9mm is like 9mm->22lr
Extremely true
Hey Ben, first off great job with the videos you're putting out. Very informative and enjoying each one. Keep up the good work. I agree with your comments on trigger reset. I've been in LE since the 80's and when we made the transition from revolvers to semi-autos trigger reset was hammered home. It stayed that way for many years even as I became an instructor for my department we were taught to teach trigger reset to our students. It's only been the past few years that the instructor level and USPSA classes that I've attended have gotten away from trigger reset and now teach coming off and then re-engaging the trigger for each shot. I've found that it is a much better way to "run" a gun. Faster, more efficient. I may use it if I'm sighting in an optic for a rifle from a bench but that's about it. Training and techniques grow and evolve over the years. There is a reason why we don't shoot K frames from the Weaver position anymore. Keep up the good work.
Riding the reset can also lead to pinning the trigger.
Since an attempt at exactly locating the reset point requires very precise finger movement, it's tempting to postpone that movement until after the gun has completed the recoil cycle and is more or less stabilized and back on target. So instead of using the "dead time" when the gun is recoiling and moving back on target to simultaneously release the trigger and start pulling it again, you wait till the gun becomes steady and only then start the release - "hunt the reset" - pull cycle.
It's a pistol not a Ar15
@@MF-Rell Your point being...?
JJ Racaza and Donovan will remember this
I see a lot of folks who ride the reset internalize the reset as the signal to shoot, so they often end up either (1) not making shooting decisions based on appropriate visual information or (2) having to do more trigger work after getting the appropriate visual confirmation (vision => reset => pull vs. just vision => pull)
Click Bangers!
Guilty as charged. This also led me to pull shots even more low and left because I was jerking the trigger on reaction to the reset.
Thank you for these. Your experience and anecdotes are what new shooters need to hear.
This channel is gold. Really glad I found it.
I used to ride the reset and teach that as well,
As I got better at shooting, especially faster, Instead of leading the trigger to the reset, I just release the tension in my shooting finger after the trigger breaks and then the trigger moves my finger to the reset.
Helped me shoot faster, more accurately, and fixed my trigger freeze problem.
I can’t get enough of these videos. I absolutely love the IDKAF attitude that comes with being a master of any craft
I always thought reset riding was a complex thing to master. Just like with most things, keeping it simple is better. Thanks for posting this vid!!
This was GREAT! I think one of least discussed topics but super important. I am not fast but want to train the best way. I had tried reset shooting with catching the reset in recoil and ended up with firing when I didn't plan to. Like to know what the really great shooters do. Happy to work on my other fundamentals to allow for a better trigger technique.
Simple is gold! It works. 👍🏼
When in a situation where you need to put lead on target. Your going to want to make sure you're being accurate more than listening or feeling for some tiny click before you pull the trigger however is comfortable for you. That's sweating the small stuff during life or death, that's a distraction, that's a death.
This makes total sense when I think about my problems trying to shoot fast like I do when I try to shoot accurate
In my (beginner) brain, riding the reset isn't a way to shoot faster by minimizing finger travel but a mechanism to prep the trigger. If I'm going to make a (for me) difficult shot, I'm going to take out the slack to prep the trigger and then roll through the break and so by riding the reset, I arrive at that prepped trigger point without fully resetting. You talked about not ridding the reset and instead letting the trigger fully reset and so my question is, do you take out the pre-travel in the trigger before committing to a shot or is your trigger press one fluid motion?
Pretty sure Ben means one fluid motion and/or rolling all the way through the trigger each time. Not stopping at the reset 'wall' and then finishing the trigger pull after more confirmation. Ben rolls through the trigger no stopping, fast as possible for close targets, boom-boom, and a slower press-roll-through on longer distances like 20-25 yards. But he doesn't try and find the reset wall again for the second shot. He lets the trigger out all the way each time no matter the distances. My take anyway.
I roll through with every shot, couldn't tell you where reset is at.
I totally under this one but the rolling support thumb not for me. Thanks for all the advice 👍🏻
Ive always come off the trigger. Almost every class ive attended ive been told im wrong and i need to ride the reset.
Thank you. Reset riding did help me with precision. When I started bill drilling it would just go out the window. I think I get what you are saying.
Ben, at what target distances and difficulties do you recommend prepping the trigger vs. slapping it at full speed?
This was instructive - thank you.
When I started working at shooting faster for matches, I punted on riding the reset. I thought it was me. Glad to know I did the right corrective action. Good video.
Great information!
I raised my hand when you said inaccurately ....LOL
Hi Ben.I am no expert and soak up all your teachings which definitely made me better.My question:Does the big hype of expensive after market triggers really then make such a big difference e.g shorter take up,very short reset ,lighter trigger pull and and.I fully agree riding the reset is definitely does not work for me.
Once I did a 3 days course of C.A.R. System, and at the end of the course we had to be able to put at least 6 shots in center mass in less than 1 sec, at close distance, for sure. I learned that day that riding the reset could cause you problems, because I saw some people failing at the first tries just for pulling the trigger before the reset. You lose more time if you cannot reset the trigger than going all the way back and forth.
CAR, as seen in John Wick? Good point, wheels guaranteed to fall off for reset riders with drills like that.
@@lon242 yes 😂 but I didn't do it because of the movie... and in the movie he doesn't do the technique correctly. It's a very interesting technique to learn and to have in the repertory. I did with a former student of Paul Castle. There are lots of fake instructors out there.
@@adamkaminski awesome!
lol, nobody did a bill drill in less than 1 second. Quit BSIng
@@lovetopew9054 I think you have problems of reading or understanding things. I never said I did the bill drill in less than 1 sec. I said we had to be able to put 6 rounds in center mass in less than 1 sec. And I did in 0.75, using the CAR system technique. But in the test we were holding the gun, ready to shoot, pointing at the target, at close distance, like I said. The instructor puts 8 rounds in less than 1 sec... I saw it. There are things that are possible even if YOU can't do it.
You definitely know what you're talking about. I participate in a completely different sport than you do but this is maybe the 3rd or 4th video I've seen where you've said something I mostly agree with or have found out through my own insights. Have you thought about trying to condense some of these concepts into RUclips shorts? They tend to get more exposure I find
I think one of the things that has caused this issue is also the way some of these Striker guns have been marketed, the high emphasis on trigger reset that is.
About 10 years ago it was really in the Vogue to use the excuse of I just can't shoot that platform well because of the trigger reset bro no, you just can't shoot well bro.
People thought trigger reset on a specific gun would be a substitute for skill
Never heard of doing this in my entire shooting life untill about the 2013 hardcore toob 0p3r8r bloom. It's stupid as hell, and if you grew up shooting certain rifles the trigger slap they'd give you for doing that would train it right out of you.
Same. I said how you gonna go faster if you are trying to let it out slowly…
Dry firing practice I am conscious, deliberate, and slower with my trigger sequence trying to keep might sights as still as possible, so during said practice I do ride back to reset, but during actually shooting I tend to roll through the trigger pull and lift my finger off during reset.
Great analysis
Great RUclips handle.
Ben thanks for the videos!!!
I’m a little confused by this particular video… most likely due to the term “riding the reset”. In your POV is “riding the reset” the same as an “inflight reset”? I ask because you stated that there are those that listen for the click of the reset as part of their process for trigger management…. One performing inflight resets could never hear or feel the point of the reset; it’s just there, ready for the next press.
Could you help me with this?
I enjoy learning from your insights and experience, literally has changed my process and performance significantly!!!
Thanks!
I was taught to ride the reset in the Navy, and it helps with control for staying on target during pistol qualifications. But, I've noticed at the range recently that it sometimes results in a dead trigger, it happened on two different guns the same range day recently, the trigger never reset, it just stayed all the way back until I racked the slide again. Won't be riding the reset any more.
I was a reset rider. Then I got a hi power. The almost nonexistent reset click and long trigger reset solved that problem.
love my hi power
hahaha, i was going to comment how fucked up i got when I picked up a hi power and I was used to riding the reset. A few times no boom because I never let the gun reset.
Project Appleseed pistol clinics grilled this into me. It's been really hard to unlearn.
Yea it seems to help me with rifle accuracy, I seem to ignore it when shooting a pistol somehow. Different pace I think.
We teach riding the reset in positional rifle shooting
The pistol curriculum began as copy-pasta from the rifle curriculum and is in rapid development
(as rapidly as anything can happen in a large widely dispersed organization of passionate volunteers)
This is one of the areas in which it the two are or will soon be differentiated
@BobSutterfield1 I mean, it definitely helped me get pistoleer. Appleseed is just a much finer standard of accuracy than most modern handgun sports. Which in some ways is great, because now moving into USPSA, I tend to have fairly tight groups most of the time. I'm just much slower than I would like to be.
@@Colonel_Flanders For positional rifle shooting (CMP, Appleseed, etc) the emphasis is "be as accurate as possible within the fixed time allotted"
For dynamic pistol shooting (USPSA etc) the focus is "don't be any more accurate than necessary because it will slow you down"
My own hard-to-break rifle habit is getting a perfect, stable sight picture before releasing the shot.
Under a real dynamic situation you will not feel reset. It’s fun at paper targets but under stress you will have a totally different reaction.
I’ve been filming my shots at the range and I do not ride the reset so now when my fire, I do my best not to ride the reset.
Hmmm interesting. I was taught trigger riding and my weakness certainly isn’t trigger speed (I have plenty of other shooting weaknesses) I haven’t ever really found myself short stroking, usually when I have a trigger freeze it’s due to pinning the trigger back. I’ve even found the big risk with riding the trigger is accidentally on occasion bumpfiring the weapon. 🤔
Like in everything, there are levels to any game. Years ago, I believed in this process because on paper it made sense. This is one of those many examples of how what we think we are doing and what we are doing can be two different things.
After studying video footage of myself, I notice when I was shooting low percentage targets at speed, my trigger control was not what I thought it was. My finger was most defiantly coming all the way off the trigger then rolling through the break. A controlled slap is how I define it.
Shooting high percentage targets that required more confirmation, I was manipulating the trigger differently than when shooting low percentage shoots, but my finger was still coming all the way off the trigger. At no time was my finger just going to the point of reset. Videos reveal what's actually happening and should be part of everyone's training. This changed how I thought about trigger control. Your feelings will most defiantly lie to you.
Totally right! Just a short example: lift your trigger finger 2 mm from the desk and dry to knock at it as fast as you can. Than lift your finger 10mm from the desk and try it again. You will see that the second try is faster! With the first one your finger would be pretty stiffed.
Yep second is faster but finger is all over the place
I am an IPSC shooter, sometimes Standard, but mostly Production Optics. For me, it makes sense to stay on the trigger point with the DA in certain situations. However, I wouldn't want to do that with a Glock, as it would be too touchy for me. With the CZ's DA, it does make sense if you're shooting at a series of targets, blades or a swinger, for example.
I agree. In a self defense situation, absolutely no one has the time or ability to 'LISTEN for the click, and FEEL the trigger reset'. For some applications, like distance target shooting, it could be 'fine', but training to ride the reset for any other application doesn't make sense
When needing to go fast, I press the trigger at the speed I tell myself to. I believe there is a time for explicit learning and implicit learning. The problem is many people stay in the explicit learning stage.
I started off by riding the reset, then I was watching a video by Mil-Spec Mojo where he talked about resetting during recoil in order to be able to shoot faster, and not letting the reset dictate the next shot. I am still working on resetting without riding the reset, just need more time with it. Most of us can shoot faster than we realize, we just need to get comfortable running at that speed.
Wow, a guy who lost his job because he thought he knew better about the COVID vaccine and ultimately turned out to be wrong about the it is also wrong about pistol shooting techniques. Who would have thought…
He is 100%.correct. Speaking of shooting fast....we did some drills on the range and you see shooters that can send 3 or 4 rounds pretty fast and then they pause for some reason. LE stats for 2023 are 3 to 5 rounds, 3 to 5 yards, in 3 to 5 seconds.
The school of thought that I've heard used for riding the trigger reset was partially for mitigating the amount of muzzle movement during the involuntary response of flinching. My guess is that you're school of thought is to mitigate the flinching in other ways? Having listened to some of your videos, i'm trying to understand how you would solve this problem and i'm guessing its more of a point of aim issue or overworking the gun type issue rather than trigger control?
I learned to shoot Glocks this way too, can induce doubles or bumpfire on a light single stage semi auto rifle trigger like the Tapco G2 or S3G with this technique.
I see the term "pining" the trigger coming up. Pinning the trigger is something long range rifle shooters are concerned with. I think you should pull a pistols trigger until it goes bang. If you shoot a few thousand rounds a week you can learn your trigger to the point where you can ride it without short stroking it. For the rest of us give it some air and jerk it again, just jerk it without moving your sights. Anyone else see a fresh faced, short haired Ben in the first season of Top Shot? Barely recognized him.
I enjoy watching your videos and have learned alot but one thing about riding the re set I bing asked by the RO to spread the shots out. Also I shoot caniks also.
lol spread the shots out, fuckin safety guys
With a quality 2011 trigger letting all the way off is faster by a lot. With a striker gun (stock glockish) it seems to slow me down a good bit. For me just depends on the gun.
There are two things I wish I was never taught. Riding the reset, and ported / comped guns don't work.
The audio…it sounds weird to just hear just your voice but not the actions of the gun.
Most of my pistols have SRT however I never focus on the reset as mush as the front sight dropping back on target and firing again. Aim small and hit small.
It seems like some of the advice given to beginner pistol shooters is then cast away once you get to a higher level. Like riding the reset or focusing on the front sight when you should have target focus depending on target distance/difficulty.
Training wheels. But I’m not ever giving that advice
I agree with Ben on this eventhough I get better accuracy if i ride the trigger. Riding the trigger on a semi auto is kinda like stacking a double action revolver trigger just to the point before the hammer falling and keeping the trigger there until you decide to shoot. I dont think this is a very good technique. I also think that riding the reset may cause issues if you have to use another person's gun or if you have to transition to another gun.
Longer range paced shots, you work the reset to keep that handy steady. Close range double taps you slap that trigger like it owes you money.
the whole thing of people being obsessed with trigger resets triggers me 😂. I used to work at a gun store and people wanted to hear that loud click and I don't care. I only care about take up travel and how the pull feels
There is a trigger reset? Never knew, never felt it.
I put hundreds of thousands of rounds through 1911s in Open (1990s) . Later I switched to a Glock and shot Production/IDPA. I decided to shoot limited, and got a 2011. The way I learned to shoot the Glock really screwed me over when I went back to 1911 style triggers. I started bump firing when at extreme close range shooting fastest. It took a year for me to work it out. I still haven't shaken it completely, I need to do a custom trigger job on my 1911's, or I still get the occasional bump fire.
TL/DR: Don't ride the reset.
Lol me too . I went from X5 LEGION with custom trigger to CZ SAO . I used to bump fire all the time . Now I'm used to having sub 2# SAO trigger .
Ben, would you say this is a target shooting-only approach or one you'd advise for combat/defensive shooting as well? Thanks for your insight!
The same thing about short stroking a reset I'd imagine would doubly apply to situations that are less controlled than a match environment.
You do shoot in combat right?
The same principles apply in both situations.
I never understood this at ALL, as you point out the bullet is GONE already...
what I always see is them pulling the trigger the instant it resets, rather than resetting earlier and lining up before pulling the next shot.
doesn't seem like a good way to be accurate and deliberate
seems like you should release the trigger during recoil, and then pull the trigger as your dot hits the next target.
This just makes sense.
I like it for slow fire. I'll just double if i try to ride the reset. A cadence within your skill level works well
The optimal thing is to have your finger at the minimal position required to allow a reset. People focus a lot on their trigger pull. How are you supposed to develop a feel for how a trigger resets without deliberately feeling how the trigger behaves on the way out. So if the argument is there is a better way than riding the reset sure I can agree with that but how are you going to get there?
Ive thought the same thing when heard the ride the reset idea....i wanted to know how in zuess Bhole they exspect to hear the click if wearing ear pro while firing a gun much less feel each reset durin rapid fire. Ive got good ear pro and have never heard my resest when doin any rapid fire lol
I am still a novice. But I imagine that if you are going really fast it’s not realistic to focus on your reset when you should be focused on other things.
I was told to only pull the trigger with the tip of my finger. I see you use the joint of your finger. Assuming thats fine and what i was told is wrong?
I 'ride the reset' naturally for some reason, and I get trigger freeze All. The. Time. It IS dumb.
Would completely agree. I ride resets natually as ive done it for so long. It will turn u into a "triggger snob". U find out your shortcomings with stock da/sa guns as the majority dont instantly reset after DA pull, especially CZs. Really want to see us short stroke a trigger put a revolver in our hand. Lol
Techniques exist on a spectrum: the way you shoot a target 1m away is completely different to the way you would shoot a target 1000m away. The problem comes when people try to learn/teach shooting faster by just doing long range techniques more quickly. Pin and reset is important for trigger control and follow through at distance. Riding the reset is misapplication of that technique at speed. Slap the shit out of the trigger, to paraphrase Rob Leatham.
Riding the trigger came from bullseye shooting with a revolver. When people don't know the why, they just pass on the legacy.
Good. Im glad someone is saying it. I hate riding the reset.
I had to stop riding the reset, because I wasn’t letting the trigger reset when trying to go faster.
Everyone I have seen who rides the reset have trigger freeze when trying to go fast. Bad habit that's hard to break.
This man speaks nothing but facts
Man i wish you did video years ago.
it works for milspec AR triggers but im not sure ive ever done it on a pistol
It functions on anything, it’s not beneficial to do.
I get Trigger Freeze doing it..
Ehhhhh I see what you’re saying.. but I don’t agree. I don’t see any positive in moving your finger twice as far as needed. Taking your finger off the trigger while shooting fast, sounds like you could be shooting faster. I’m going to film myself shooting a sub 2 second Billy. In slow motion. I’ll tag you, and we can discuss the results.
Trigger freeze is big scary in a fight
Did making that comment make you feel some kind of special?
@@shebby2525 no?
@@shebby2525 you?
@shebby2525 So what if it did? Turd
Watch bodycam shooting.
Nobody riding reset.
Ben can you make a short video on your thoughts of Steve Andersons Mental Management philosophy for shooting?
Ben has a whole book on mentality.
This is a competition versus defensive issue, and I've gotten to the point where I lose respect for an instructor if they waste much time on this weird fetish. The only instructors I've had pushing this reset thing are defensive instructors who either don't compete at all or are very mediocre competitors. And competition is where the rubber meets the road. Competition instructors are concerned about grip and sight picture, and don't seem to think much about reset. Sure, I want my triggers to have reasonably short resets, but besides that, I need to focus on grip and sight picture, and learned to not think about the reset at all. Stoeger's first book actually confirmed my conclusions and helped me get past the nonsense. And his ideas have not been contradicted since then as I watch and talk to higher-level shooters.
I like those iron sights ; voguels i believe .
He really pisses me off when I see a USCCA ad on gun videos
Agree 100%
Speak something about how to do speed follow up shots, Ben.
I mean should I train like a maniac until I learn that?
Sounds like a expensive skill to master.
He has tons of videos on that already. Would you like a TL DR?
That guy doesn’t care, just wants to be recognized by Ben.
@@Rubeless Dude, do you even know me? I can't make a question? Are you Ben's mother?
I have been teached trigger reset. Now that I try to get rid of it for some time, it's still quite hard.
Thank you for explaining the pros and cons.
Sage Advice
4:33 TRUTH
Agreed...
It’s slower to ride the reset
Just dry fire more and know how much your finger needs to move
Agreed.
Man your insights are invaluable. I’ve been training to reset but makes so much sense how further into training that could actually hinder my performance and leave me at a hurdle that is difficult to overcome.
Do a lot of the Doubles Drill.