Simple Slicer Change Helped Prevent Warping
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2022
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In todays video we take a look at the Z Seam. I have recently been printing quite a bit of ABS parts for the Voron Switchwire build and ran into some serious issues with some of the parts. After trying quite a few things I was able to narrow down one huge cause of the issue and the solution was quite simple.
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Very interesting finding. The seam will create a stress point that can nucleate delamination from the bed.
My favorite technique to completely prevent warping when printing ABS/ASA is to print the first layer on a flat PEI sheet in PETG before switching to the ABS/ASA. The PETG adheres to the PEI and the ABS/ASA. It prevents warping every time. The only downside is if you abort the print early, it can take some scraping to get the layers off the bed (the final print has more stress, so comes off with a few flex plate bends). The skirt can take some scraping too.
It definitely will shorten the PEI surface life, but when using a thick-ish PEI sheet stuck to a flex plate the surface can be replaced when needed.
That is very interesting. Been having issues with warping. Never crossed my mind that the seem could be a problem. Going to try it! Thanks a ton!
Seems to have solved my problem printing long rectangle parts. Thanks for the tip! Now I'm subscribed.
I love trying different slicer settings. I’ve had to reprint parts for both my 0.1 and 2.4 and some have been much more accurate tHan others. I’m going to try the seam location out the next time I’m printing ABS parts. Thanks, as always, for the clearly explained tips for 3D printing!
you nailed it on the seams! 3d printed a PLA-CF faceplate i designed recently, and I put all the seems in the bottom right corner... guess which corner had an issue with warping, and ONLY that corner... the one with the seems. This finding of yours will let me fix that by simply moving the seams to a straight section. orca-slicer lets me draw where i want the seams to be placed.
Nice find! Thank you for the tip, will try for warp sensitive issues!
Very timely video! I'm getting ready to print parts for my new Rat Rig and want to use ABS, but have always had trouble with it in the past. I'll give this and the draft shield a try. I'm using S3D for my slicer and the options are random and a specific point.
Maybe using per model settings and having the seam in the rear for the first 4 or 5 layers and then switching to corner seams will be the best of both worlds, no warping and hidden seam after 4 or 5 layers, its probably happening because it is cooling faster where the slight break in the print at the corner is, maybe random for the first 4 or 5 layers might look better as you could knock the seam boogers off on those first layers
I like the wider lens! It never occurred to me you can move the seam around; will definitely keep that in mind in the future
Good catch ! There are so many settings in Prusa slicer that I am overwhelmed by the complexity.
For others struggling with ABS or ASA, I found the same results a while back. I also only print parts out of ASA to assemble the only product my company sells, and they have a small radius on the bottom that is a cosmetic feature, so they have to stay. I haven't tried any other glues or bed adhesion products so i can't comment on them, but using magigoo has allowed me to print over the entire bed of my ender 5 plus's (with enclosures, kept at 108F) with no more warping. It's been running like this for a couple months now and a few thousand parts. For ASA I run 100C bed, 260 nozzle with standard Prusaslicer .010mm presets except for the seam location.
I literally just started having this issue with pla+ I noticed it wash ending on the corner and I thought that was it but I’m new so didn’t know what to change. This might save my frustrations! Can’t wait to try out!
it makes sense to a noob like me..
the tight bends in the corners is where i get my lifting on large objects.
👌🏼
I actually like the field of view of this camera lens
Thank you very much for this great video and advices!!!!
Thanks for the video. Currently building my switchwire and while have parts printed in PETG I decided to do it right and print them in ABS and have been having the same issue. Its not a huge warp but enough that I notice it. Been trying to figure out why and maybe this will fix my issue.
Eye opener!! OMG, thank you!! 😘
The faster and hotter you print, the longer a polymer chain you are making and less time it has to relieve stresses until it's in a settled state. So basically you've ran the whole length of the outer wall before it all starts to cool at once, rather than 1/4th etc, Also part shrinkage is proportional to the differential of hot/cold, so the hotter you run above what is needed, the worse it will get.
With parts that are known to shrink like ABS this becomes more prevalent as you ramp up speeds. By having the seam at the corner, already a likely place to lift, you're creating a disturbance in smooth and equally load bearing surface adhered to the plate. This is more or less the equivalent of a 'nucleation site' where the part will be even more likely to lift off due to the stressors. It's technically a symptom rather than a cure, but as long as it can be managed it obviously works.
Also regular nozzles retain more stress than “turbulent” nozzles like CHT. My figure is that regular nozzles squeeze the filament so retains stress while CHT cause a turbulence at the entry so it “breaks” the material memory.
Is not just heat transfer cause at extruder near skipping speeds with both nozzles (so at their limits for heat transfer) the CHT has a better formed line, doesn’t enlarge after nozzle as much as a choking nozzle and has sensibly less warping and contraction.
Wide lens, just remember to wear pants….
I have a pretty basic printer, 100x100x100 build volume, single z axis, no heated bed... At first when I got 2kgs of petg (it was really cheap for some reason), it went fine. Then, some models started quickly curling up and I couldn't understand how could I solve it. Right now I'm doing a print that I'm trying some things with, like using glue and reducing the active cooling a bit. I hope the model would turn out good, as the one before it (just glue) had warped a bit on the bottom (but only after I removed it from the bed), which is where two halves would connect. Thanks for telling about that possible tweak! I'll try it next time if the problem stays.
interesting observation....hmmmm... I've had similar issues. Will try this technique. What temp do you get your encloure up to when printing ABS?
Nice video! Thanks.
Thanks for this video! I've had warping problems at random, been trying to suss them out... Haven't tried this yet, but will now! (Cura)
I have actually had this issue on particular pla parts. I too noticed the corners where the Z seam was would curl up especially if it was an overhang.
Oh this is good to know.
I also love how you can just paint the seam on in Prusaslicer.
Also i want to yeet ABS filament off the edge of the planet. I have gone to HIPS and i'm not looking back. In my mind there's purely no reason to print ABS.
I wounder if software could make abs printable without an enclosure, I saw this video about a company 3D printing space rockets in aluminium, and if you have ever welded aluminum you probably know how insanely it warps if you weld to much at a time, then someone from that company said they created a software that inverts the warping before the print even starts, so basically they print a "inverted warped part" and when it warps the final part warps into the intended shape. pretty clever. Would be sick if they could make that work
About this Thema, i agree with you. That improve a lot in regards to have warping with abs. I accidentally found another God way to avoid warping and it consists in have a very thin first layer. Almost transparent by reducing the extrusion flow and layer height for the first layer. But you will need a very good leveled bed. Once you can print this such as almost transparent first layer the warping will disappear forever! Maybe 0.05 first layer height. With 50% less extrusion material.
Interesting. Thanks for the video. I find better bed adhesion (ABS on a smooth sheet is much better) is 99% of the time the fix. Also, bed mesh before printing on the v0. I found no matter what I did with the screws, the bed still had a very slight slant (within 0.1mm, but that's enough of change the squish on some parts depending on location, shape etc), which of course, is related to bed adhesion :)
I had the same problem with PETG, just changed the seam to Random, seems I never had any problems anymore.
I've had some bad warping with PETG, using a spring steel PEI build plate the print was sticking well enough that it was actually pulling up a corner of of the plate so resorted to the bulldog clips. Messed around with bed and hot end temperatures for a while and put a temporary draft shield around the printer and got a useful improvement but had no idea the seam position could influence this. I'm going to give some of those parts another go on random.
I have a problem with my Elegoo Neptune 3 Pro: PLA parts warp from the corners like they're ABS. I tried this and it worked.
That’s good to know. Thank you
I would think this seam issues would have to be tied to the nozzle spending more time starting and stopping in that location. Wonder if changing your acceleration would also have an impact. Makes me think that is why it shows up more on the smaller parts too (you'd be in the acceleration zone more comparatively on them).
Ok, this is really interesting.... Never though about this, but this explains a lot of my problems.... Thank you
Someone recommended this for my petg issues. Make sense and hope it helps.
Scotch-brite works like a charm on a smooth pei sheet
Lol this is awesome i just had to figure this out the other day for my parts
Recently changed my z seam settings and noticed some warping, will be changing my settings and let you know how it goes
I always go random when I want performance over appearance.
The fact that I have aligned and usually manually set the seam never showed me that problem. Also I use “infill first” setting for high temp materials.
That seam goes away with more precise profile too. But regardless -- very good point, you can't always eliminate it fully
I think majority of this issue stems from heat and first layer squish. I noticed that parts tended to warp on me when bed was not cleaned properly and it was not in the middle of the v0.1 bed. Looks like your seem may not be connecting more due to the PA being set too Low? This causes bigger gaps. Means more likely to not connect the seam being in between the corners ie the back means that the corners where PA makes the most difference are not so much and issue. This is my guess. I had issues with warping before I got an edge to edge heater and a good thin but strong magnet as in Graviflex. Thinner magnet means more heat isn’t being soaked up by the magnet and getting transferred to the build plate I was running 115c because of my issues with the standard heater and that did work in some cases but then I had magnet lifting and warping the print at the edge because of no edge to edge heating and not a strong enough magnet. Best upgrades I’ve done are edge to edge heater and graviflex and these have allowed me to use the whole v0.1 bed without issues! Cheers!
I have never been able to print abs. no matter what I do it warps. Can you recommend a good alternative?
Are you using an enclosure?
Are you preheating the enclosure (turn the bed temperature up all the way for 30 minutes before printing)
Is your bed insulated to ensure that it is just as hot on the outside as the inside?
Can you use a raft or large brim?
ASA has replaced all my ABS printing even though I have enclosures, maybe you could try a draught shield around your print to stop it cooling so fast
If I see this issue in Cura, I'd try testing random seams - think that was an option in your list.
How did random seams work out for you with Cura?
@@BloodyIron I don't get the problem, so never needed to try.
Not sure why this isn't an issue for me,
@@pitanpainter2140 no worries! Thanks anyways :)
Is there a way to put the seam on the inside of the wall?
Would warping still happen if seam was set to random?
I've only used Cura, haven't experienced this problem. Yet. But would Z Seam Random be a good option? Seems like it to me. Would keep the seam moving around the part so there wasn't a single point for temperature stresses to cause warping.
Have you tested Z Seam Alignment Random? If so, how did that pan out for you?
@@BloodyIron Depends on the shape of the model. Works well on round objects that lack a good corner to hide the seam in. I have to watch retraction and wipe settings to avoid scattered zits.
i'm gonna try it rn, not even gonna close this video...
well, this print specifically, is looking awesome in terms of warp, i simply loved it!
What about using the Seam Painting Tool in feature in PrusaSlicer? Shouldn’t that work also?
ofc
Benchies, everyone's favorite 3D printer test subject, also has a warping problem, at least from what I've seen so far, after printing a few to check some speed settings, I've noticed that when you place a straight edge along the bottom end to end, most of them are curved or warped a bit.
I've watched with interest on a review of filament where the reviewer blamed the filament on adhesion problems, then showed a Benchie . . .
Interesting video, thanks for sharing
I am having lift issues in the 4 corners of some 200x200mm cubes, the adheasion to the flex plate is fantastic in my case, the issue is the force is so high that the flex plates are deforming in all 4 corners, while the bull dog clips hold the outter edge of the flex plate down, i have 2 different machines with the same issue.
The Flex plates are just to thin and distort.
Will experiment with the seam postion and report back.
Regards Stefan
Seems you’re going too fast or the temperature in the chamber is too low!
Hi, I am looking for the report :)
@@fbombtehgr3at I had no luck with seam position change.
Have recently received a thicker build plate from an Australian company that’s just closed down, and am hoping it will resolve the issue. Have finished the project where we were printing the larger parts so haven’t been able to confirm the fix with thicker plate. But in theory it should resolve the issue.
What about random seam?
LOL I know the issue and solution too. Best solution is not the SEAM it's the first layers to be printed 20C hotter.This will fix your warping issue.
If you need help with your cameras look up my Dad, Gus Lazzari. No one is better! Tell him his son sent you for a quicker turn around.
To be honest idk how abs is so difficult for most, I find it so easy as I just set the chamber wait temp to 55 and by the time it gets to laying down the first layer it's around 60 and the chamber gets to a little above 70 and stays when the 3rd or 4th layer comes around. This allows me to keep the part fan at 60% for big overhangs. Just my 2 cents.
Not everyone has a printer with an enclosure
@@Becvar80 this is in response to modbots video and he said he was using a v0 voron now if he built it to spec (I think he did) then he really shouldn't have these problems with abs and yes I agree not everyone has an enclosure, but if they don't then they really shouldn't be printing out of just abs going with something like abs+ or another with additives make abs easier to print
I don't get it, what is a seam, I tried random in some parts and works well without warping, other still warping, I really want to understand what seam means
Wow, what a tour
Great find 👍
One thing, have you tried the Adaptive infill? That was what CNC kitchen wanted a year ago, and now it implemented in Prusa Slicer!!
Thanks for sharing your experience with all of us
not the same thing
I only use random on my seam settings. Parts come out cleaner
Video starts at 1:59
You're welcome.
Way too long of an intro, content starts after about 2:00 :/
Why are you using abs?
what would you use instead?
@@riba2233 pla pro