It's not about quality, nor lenght... it's because you have to have a base game and play hours and hours to even access it and play it. It's an extension of a game and not a standalone experience.
Yep. It would totally be a different conversation if you didn't have to own the base game. Now, Blood and Wine won the RPG category years ago when it was just an expansion for The Witcher 3, as well. I think that was messed up, too. Unless you can play the expansion as a standalone without the original game than it's just an extension of the original product and you're essentially giving the nomination to the same game twice.
Totally. I don't see how the other points people bring up are relevant at all. There's been short games that have won that category. You shouldn't need to buy another/the base game to play it.
I completely agree that the only good argument is how we access it, and people keep talking about things like lenght. But even the question about how to access it is complicated, because if this has to be considered, I believe other things have to be considered as well. As an example: FF7 Rebirth is definitely a GOTY contender... but ONLY IF you played the first part. Is it really a standalone experience if you have to play the first part to enjoy it completely? If you play only the second one, getting a story with no beggining nor end makes it GOTY worthy? (This also applies to many sequels in which the stories contineus, like Mass Effect 2 and 3) Also, if how you access it is important, should we take in consideration things like pricing? How many platforms is it on? System or accessory requirements? It may seem strange, but I think if you would have to make how we access the game a thing, I really think some of these questions should be important. In the end, what I think is that this DLC thing is really the smallest of problems, and I wouldn't mind if Shadow of the Erdtree won. It would be very hard for another game to do this again, and if no game is better than an expansion of a game, maybe the expansion deserves more. For me the most bizarre thing is the Fighting Game category. Not only we have a collection of old games as contenders (Marvel Collection), but we also have Multiversus, a game that was released two years ago, WON THIS CATEGORY, and now is being re-released and being considered again...
I think a DLC/Expansion category makes most sense logically. Plus you get to give more games the spotlight by adding a category that really feels like it belongs as its own category. So it just seems like the easy way to please all and spotlight more games. Win/win.
The Game of the Year award should only go to stand alone releases. For example The Witcher 3's dlc shouldn't be eligible but AC Valhalla: Dawn of Ragnarok should be eligible in their respective years. Sequels, even if they're almost identical, should be eligible just like at the Oscars with LOTR. Can you image people saying that Return of the King wasn't eligible because it didn't "shake up the formula enough" from the Fellowship of the Ring? That'd be crazy!
Imagine if a previous year Oscar winner added a bunch of scenes, enough to double the length of the movie. Should that be eligible for a new Oscar? I really dont get how its even a discussion.
3:43 Not a fan of this argument because if we follow this logic through to its entirety, all sequels are DLCs. God of a War: Ragnarok would effectively be a DLC technically. I don't think we should be using the fact that SotE is 20+ hours and makes improvements or whatever to the base game as a reason for why it deserves to be in the GOTY nominee category. If we did, then Witcher 3's Blood and Wine (a 20 hour expansion with improvements) would then be considered to be a nominee in the GOTY category as a FULL-FLEDGED game. It isn't.
Blood and Wine is actually a previous example of this issue as it was nominated and awarded Best RPG of the year at the Game Awards in 2016 which should already have been an issue back then.
@@Kingdom850The principle is the same. The category is Best Role Playing GAME. Erdtree's category context is GAME of the Year. The discussion is the same. Does DLC count as a Game.
It's not just "it's a dlc". It's also "you need the base game and to invest several hours into it to get to the dlc" It's also not the first time, Witcher Blood and Wine was nominated It's controversial, sure, but if it's one of the gaming's best experiences of the year, then it's kinda justified, but everything should be taken into account.
Amount of content shouldn't be a factor in GOTY, but the idea that it's an actual game should be a definitive qualifier. You shouldn't have to buy another game, play it extensively before you can start playing the "Game of the Year". Extra content for a game should be it's own category, because if SOTE is eligible then all DLC, expansions, and even MTX technically qualify... which is complete nonsense BS.
Many Media outlets and youtuber had this conversion not to long ago. Hours put into game and amount content does not make a good game. Starfield was a big example were complain it had to much content
Mike's audio was crisp and clear this episode! The conversation around awards was interesting especially within the context of the article that came out this past week about the top grossing movies this year nearly all being sequels. I'm excited for and happy for your next Tron game, Mike! Great and insightful conversation as always~
I'm with Mike - I like discs. Even without that though, I only ever liked CoD games for the single player campaigns. If Activision released a "CoD Light" version of the games, stripped back of all the MP content so it was just the campaign, I'd be satisfied. I'd also be a return customer instead of playing whatever happened to be on gamepass at the time if I remember to look.
Black Myth Wukong ended up being my personal GOTY, as incredible as some other games this year have been 😊 Besides the phenomenal graphics and combat and boss fights, its method of storytelling (journal entries for all enemies and bosses, different types of cinematic animations between chapters, time traveled secret areas, etc.) felt so captivating and unique. To your point on expecting Sekiro, Alanah, I think the only game that will outdo Sekiro is a sequel or spiritual successor by From Software. None of the games inspired by it (Wo Long, Stellar Blade, Black Myth Wukong, etc.) have quite reached its level 😅
I would legit love if From Software dropped a version of Shadow of the Erdtree as a standalone game where you didn't need to play the base game to replay it. It is essentially a sequel. Shorter sequel. But that's fine!
I just picked up Silent Hill 2 and I was very happy to hear someone else thinks it's a very scary game. So far, I've only played it in small chunks because of what it does to my poor ticker. Every enemy gets two extra stomps in my frantic "Just die" style of trying to stay alive. This is another one of those games that makes me think my neighbors on the other side of our thin apartment walls probably think I'm crazy. Headphones on, totally silent, then "Oh no, it's weird flesh thing, why", "God I hate it so much", "Fuck off and die". Followed by my calm down game Tales of Arise where the game's random audio barks will occasionally cause the main character to say "Huh, what's this?" when picking up a potato. So the neighbors have heard all reactions to Silent Hill, long pause, laughs then "What is potato?". The walls aren't thin enough to hear all that, just makes me laugh to think about if they could.
HA! Just from knowing we consume similar media, I know Mike is talking about Jacob Geller's video about the twist thing and yeah...I haven't got it yet but it did sell me too
It could've been sold as a separate stand alone game and cost 60$ and everyone would've eaten it up. It has 60 hours of content. Almost as many new toys to play with, bosses, locations etc as the Elden Ring itself. It absolutely deserves the nomination. Many sequels have reused assets and animations and whotnot. Way i see it this is just a semantics issue, which is reductive and distracting of what an actual masterpiece of art SoTE is and its need of highest level of recognition.
As far as I'm concerned DCLs should be in their own category, I don't care how long it takes to play them. Shadow of the Erdtree shouldn't have been nominated for GOTY just like Monster Hunter Iceborn shouldn't have been nominated for best RPG in 2019 and Witcher 3 Blood and Wine shouldn't have been nominated and awarded best RPG in 2016 either. I think the spotlight should be on new games released that year only (remasters and remakes are another can of worms entirely and considering how many there are each year now, I would also think they need their own category).
And if we do count DLC for GOTY, where the beep is Resident Evil 4 Remake's VR DLC in the VR GOTY category (never mind Madison VR not being nominated) at least be consistent Game Award peeps.
I've been gone too long as well since there was no mention of Mike's stache which was new to me. Not gone long enough to have expected Troy to be here.
INSIDE is amazing, like one of the best games ever, and I feel landing a massive ship like BG 3 with that quality and result must be tremendously difficult and direction is key to bring all that together like that too.
All content we play is a Game. The fact that Erdtree requires majority completion of base Elden Ring is not only inconsequential, it gives even more weight to the nomination. In spite of not accessing this content until well over 30-40 hours of gameplay in Elden Ring, it is one of the best Game Experiences of the year. The point of adding additional categories to any kind of award show is to highlight aspects of the industry that are under-represented in other categories. The reason to add a DLC/Expansion Category should be that there are DLCs and Expansions that you want to credit that aren't getting recognition. The point of a Best Game, Game of the Year, etc, is to say "This is the best thing you can play this year".
It's funny, I looked it up and wish listed catalyst as soon as Mike said it was an isometric action game set in the Tron: Identity universe. Didn't need to be dared, didn't know about the link in the description until the deed had already been done.
@@yellowflash511 How so? They want to play a 2024 GOTY contender, but it's not possible when its gated behind the purchase of a game from two years ago.
I think the worst part of having Shadow of the Erdtree being nominated as GOTY is that it will stifle creativity and new ideas. Why make a game from scratch or make an original IP if it’s not being rewarded for how hard it is to do. Games that are nominated or win definitely help decide what types of games are getting funded and green lighted. There should be a DLC/Expansion category.
Installed CoD BO 6 yesterday on Xbox, sounds like they handle it better than PlayStation based on Mike's experience they asked me what I wanted to install and I checked Black Ops 6 campaign and Multiplayer and not all the other games.
Wukong is not a boss rush. If you only play the early part of the game, you can think that it is. There is plenty of exploration. It took me 60 hrs to complete everything between exploration and combat. It has huge open areas to explore, secrets, minibosses, and hidden bosses like a souls game. I wish people would stop pushing this false narrative who haven't played through more than the first area.
The game awards jury is too broad, it should be like the baftas. Do the juries play every nomination they are submitting for a category? That's a big ask. Cause some of the choices suggest not, and people just picking known properties in a franchise, not actually if they are meeting the spirit of the category.. or if they are even good instalments of the franchise.
I've not played Elden Ring at all. Reminds me of The Witcher Blood and Wine. That DLC was so massive, it was basically it's own game. Is Shadow of the Erd Tree on relatively similar scale? If yes, I have no problem with it being nominated.
Good Afternoon Play, Watch, Listen!! Love seeing Alanah 😍. In regards to the topic, I think a DLC should NEVER be nominated outside of ''Best DLC''. No matter how good it is. The only exception may be if you can buy it separately without purchasing the main game, for example, the DOOM Eternal expansion.
It’s a bit weird to have dlc eligible, but then again if it was exactly the same as it is, but instead had been released as a standalone sort of thing like Wolfenstein: The Old Blood or Spider Man Miles Morales I don’t think people would have as much of an issue with it.
@@themajesticspider-man6116So it’s really just the method of delivery then? If Erdtree was a standalone (otherwise identical) game it would be ok? I think Doom: Eternal’s dlc could be downloaded on its own if I recall correctly. And that feels like a less substantial thing overall than the Elden Ring dlc. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other I’m more just curious what people think. This award stuff is all made up anyway.
@@themajesticspider-man6116 But the delivery mechanism is totally arbitrary: You don't even have look outside the other nominees -- AstroBot is literally Astro's Playroom but More, but because it is "standalone" it gets a pass?
@@brandonrice1403 Of course everything sounds arbitrary when you intentionally dumb it down for the sake of your whataboutism argument. I can use your same stupid logic and just call elden ring "open world dark souls" but that's severely disrespectful to all the things that game does right.
A lot people don’t have the money nor the time to invest in any other games anymore. Most of the people I know barely even played any of the nominees. Of course they’re going to nominate a DLC because that’s all they played this year 😂
To me, Balatro is the most Tertris a game has been since Tetris. If it doesn’t win game of the year, it’ll at least be game of a generation. And as far as DLC goes, if it’s good enough to keep people employed, it should be eligible for awards. Brotato Abyssal Terror not being nominated is the real crime here.
Calling it an advertisement isn't really fair imo. Does it lean heavily into its PlayStation roots? Absolutely. But that's not necessarily a bad thing if it's fun and delivers an enjoyable experience.. which it definitely seems like it does (I haven't played it myself). I'll play it at some point, but not for the price point it launched at.
It’s a fun can of worms, DLC as GotY. Does this mean that a game released in January with DLC in October can have its DLC nominated instead of the game itself? Does it mean that a DLC does not count to a game being GotY? What is the game is bad and the DLC great, does that mean you just reward the DLC? I don’t know why they decided to open this can of worms, but it’s interesting. Anyway, the thing that annoys me is that they nominated FF7 Rebirth instead of Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth.
The DLC conversation is just the games industry with its head up it's own arse. Something being a DLC is mostly about how that content is delivered to gamers, it doesn't limit the quality or value of the content in any way. No reason to start pretending it ever had some other magical definition.
Personally i think dlc should not be nominated for the game of the year, but i think Shadow of the Erdtree is an exception because it has much more content than some standalone games. I loved Wukong and i think it should win something, even multiple awards, but i loved Shadow of the Erdtree a bit more, mainly because i like more souls-like combat than devil may cry-style button mashing combat and i think the invisible walls were a bit too thinght in some parts. So i think Shadow of the Erdtree deserves game of the year...
Horrible take at 7:00 about the Final Fantasy series. Most entries in the FF series have always been intentionally non canonical. V has never been required to play VI. All seperate entries.
I rebuke the argument that length or quantity of content should have anything to do with the argument of a DLC being considered. The fact that an experience is standalone is all that matters to me. Some of my favourite games ever have been 2 hour experiences. The very fundamental fact that it is an extension of an already lauded experience is disqualifying of consideration. I know people don't care but it annoys me so much. I don't even think the expansion was nearly as good as many think, so many missing cutscenes, boring empty areas, stupidly difficult end boss, mind you I still thought it was very good and a great experience but one of the best of the year? Nah. Are we going to nominate God of war Ragnarok again for the Valhalla dlc? Which I thought was far better as an expansion as it greatly enriched the base game and character. I don't think we should. There are so many incredible games that get overlooked at these showcase "award" shows that I think should have been nominated instead. Great show as always though!
I’m absolutely down for Dragon’s Dogma 2 being my favorite game of the year. I don’t think it deserves best game of the year on anyone’s list. I could maybe debate best action game or something like that, not GOTY. Oh well, glad to hear Alanah liked it too.
I fully understand people who see the complaints about nominating DLC for GOTY as pointless categorization wankery. On the other hand: this is the Game of the Year Awards - _the entire thing_ is an exercise in pointless categorization wankery, so why draw the line there? If I cared at all about the Geoff Keighley MTV Game Awards Sponsored By Gillette, I'd probably mind that SotE was nominated, but fortunately I don't.
The 2 biggest issues with erdtree being nominated are 1) it requires you to own the base game and play through like 2/3 of it to get to the starting point for the dlc, like if i bought god of war ragnarok and tried to play it and it was like sorry play god of war 2018 first before you can access your purchase you won't be categorizing it as it's own game. and 2) i don't think it deserves to be nominated in the first place, the boss design the thing fromsoft is known for was just bad for most of the dlc mesmer and relana were 2 genuinely fun fights the rest of the bosses just felt like a slog to get through. I enjoyed the dlc overall but the bosses being the weakest part for me kind of knocks it down a peg.
@@RonyH7 Yes but again at least elden ring is a stand alone game, also I feel like ragnarok or forbidden west should have won in 2022, elden ring is to me behind DS3 and sekiro in terms of boss design.
Don't agree with it improving anything from the base game. What it did do is introduce a new upgrade system that you have to search for...which I wasn't a fan of. I mean it's fine, but there was already an upgrade system in place and now my lvl 240 character is useless until I find scadutree fragments? Meh. Dlc was a lot of fun, I wouldn't vote for it being game of the year though, the final shape was better imo. Dlcs should just have their own category
It's whatever at the end of the day, but if we're gonna be completely honest with ourselves and have a genuine discussion, there is a point to thinking it shouldn't be a GOTY nominee, which I personally agree with.
Releasing an EP with 4 songs on it is not releasing an album, and is not eligible to a Grammy award. Erdtree is an expansion, not “DLC”. DLC means nothing. A costume in The First Descendant is DLC. And technically buying Cyberpunk digitally makes the whole game DLC because it’s been downloaded. What are we doing here? An expansion is not a game because it can’t run without an actual game. Period. A sidecar is not a car.
Shadow of the Erdtree is the only of the GOTY nominees I've actually played but ironically the one I think should be on the list the least. There are a number of reasons for this: 1. It's a DLC that requires another base game and purchase to access. 2. To access the DLC you have to play through more than half of the base game and beat a relatively difficult optional boss, which is a high barrier to entry for some players. You can also beeline Radahn and Varré's side quest, but that isn't a realistic expectation for the average player, and beating Mohg while underlevelled/geared is also a considerable challenge. 3. The DLC, while well made, doesn't fundamentally do anything different or transformative from the base game. It's a new area with new bosses, NPCs and enemies, but in terms of overall experience it's essentially just more Elden Ring. If a DLC is going to be considered a GOTY contender I'd like it to do something more to distinguish itself from the game it's a DLC of, especially if said game already won GOTY a couple years prior. With those reasons given, I definitely would have preferred to see another standalone game like Silent Hill 2 take the nomination spot. There should be a new category for DLCs and expansions. I think remakes are fine being considered for GOTY as long as they are different enough from the original in more ways than a simple graphics overhaul. For example: new or rewritten story, dialogue and cutscenes, new or expanded game mechanics, areas, enemies etc.
If you have to play hours and hours of the base game to access a DLC within the game, that DLC should not be eligible for GOTY. Its not about SOTE deserving recognition or not, cause it does obviously. SOTE though is not a game, Elden Ring is the game, and it already won GOTY and it was well deserved. Honestly I loved SOTE despite some of the lore implications it changed, but the idea to me that it deserves a GOTY award when Phantom Liberty wasn't even nominated or talked about last year is WILD.
Im all for sequels and remakes to be included but this is ridiculous imo. Very strongly against erd tree I think dlc wouls be fine IF it was standalone But since you have to buy and beat the main campaign to even access the, it's more an extension of the game than it's own entity...doesn't matter that it's a several hour long thing
I'm apathetic about DLC being GotY, but I don't think it should win simply because of the poor performance, reused textures and enemies, and general feeling that exploration isn't useful. I got bored of it, trying to figure out where to go to unlock the locations only to find that I spent a ton of time looking for caves and secret passages only for it to be available later. It's a 6/10 for me.
SoE tranformed my favourite game of all time. It added a post game that validated my 200 hour playthrough in a way I didn't imagine was possible. And made it fun to beat the entire game again with all the new weapons/ balance changes. While I'm sure the 25 hour crowd had fun, SoE was a peak 100+ hour experience across my entire life. While shorter than the first game, it was tighter and an improvement in pretty much every way. The idea we have a game of the year award, and say "this isn't a game", is silly. Why draw imaginary lines in the sand?
G'day fellow scientists! Long time player, watcher, listener and first time commenter. Questions for the panel; Alanah: Researchers are encouraged to write papers through the lens of creating a narrative or having a story thread. What suggestions can you share to keep a technical narrative engaging? Austin: Wha- Troy: What does Norman Reedus taste like? Also, does it feel different using your likeness in a game as opposed to an animated appearance? Mike: As a director, has your baseline knowledge of various aspects of game development increased over time and has that helped with project scoping? Austin: It is often said video game music is designed for player focus. How true do you think this is and what techniques do you implement to achieve engagement? Thanks for making this podcast, it's the only one I listen/watch (and play?) and it's great to chuck on while processing data (your conversations are often more intellectual than ones I have with other scientists!) Cheers
I agree with most of whats being said but i think the sequel arguments being made are a bit silly. Even if they are building off of the previous game, if the sequel was better than it is a better game. If portal 1 had all same mechanics but for whatever reason was just AWFUL and Portal 2 was unchanged still building off the mechanics of portal 1 would you not say its the better game or is the bad game better because it came first? We wouldnt even have portal if not for narbacular drop tho so should that be ahead of both of them? How far back does it go? Is the 100 best games of all time just the first 100 games in the order they came out in? Same with GOTY nominations, if theres a sequel that has a much better story better, gameplay, expanded/new maps, but broadstrokes have the same fundamentals (ie GOW Ragnarok) are we not allowed to say that this is tge best game that came out this year?
For me if elden ring brings out dlc every year it could be nominated every year just because the base game is that good. It's not stand alone and therefore it's not a game. Elden ring is the game. Just my opinion.
Really glad to hear your takes on this and I'm so glad to hear Austin reference Spiderman: Miles Morales because it highlights my thoughts on this -- Everyone is wringing their hands over the inclusion of Shadow of the Erdtree because of a label. "It's DLC!" the masses cry "Elden Ring got the win already!" the whinge "It sets a bad precedent!" the echo chamber repeats ad nauseum .....Why are we so slavishly adhering to the label? Developers didn't have to work less hard because it's "DLC" It didn't bring people less joy because it's "DLC" It isn't *lesser* because of its circumstance in any way And chiefly -- It's the Supreme Court Pornography argument: *We know it when we see it.* I don't like the idea that the nomination is bad because it's dependent on the notion that the jury and the audience are too stupid to make judgment without a universal checklist of what things are or aren't. It's okay if the lines are blurred once in a while, because I dont think anyone has lost sight of the underlying sentiment of the nomination: Did this bring us joy? For me, Shadow the Erdtree answers that simple criterion with a resounding yes, and is worthy of recognition for all the superb labor and love that went into creating it. "
If it were stand-alone it'd be fine, but it feels wrong to me that if I want to play one of the nominees of this GOTY awards I have to buy and play almost entirely through a game from a previous year.
You typed up this thesis when nobody ever said that Erdtree doesn't deserve the praise for all the work that was put into it. *It does.* But it is not a full video game. It is not a standalone experience like Miles Morales. It requires a video game to play, with significant amount of hours poured into said game to even REACH the content in the first place. That's people's issues with nominating it a GOTY contender, not that it "doesn't deserve praise". Have zero clue how you came to that conclusion.
@@StreIok737I understand that -- but I draw issue with that as the basis for exclusion because required previous investment is common across media. Like they cover: You can play God of War Ragnarok without having played the first but its not going to make much sense is it? Should Empire Strikes Back or Return of the King or Avengers Endgame be excluded from awards consideration because other films are required viewing to access their quality? At the end of the day, I trust that the nomination is because it is easy to argue that it is one of the best gaming experiences of the year, and it doesnt have to be any more difficult or technical than that.
@@brandonrice1403 I see the argument but the scale is clearly different compared to those examples (the only "quality" that's restricted in those examples is plot related, those experiences are much more than that).
Elden ring is a "game of the generation" calibre game, and sote is just more of it, so ofcourse its still at the pinnacle . If you let them, it could be a top 6 every year, like portal 2 or breath of the wild would be for many. It's not that it was a slow year by any stretch, but not everyone can compete with what many consider to be the greatest game of all time
At 10:00 you say user reviews aren't useful because there mostly 10 or 0. User reviews I'd say are more useful then "professionals" and you just consider the ones with some text that the person actually put some care and thought into since many just write great/trash. More useful then big publications reviews, everythings either a 7/10 cause they only play it safe or it's like Veilguard and they all 100% glossed over that the writing is shit and insulting and I'm sorry but that's material, knowing that and being informed for me and many is a dealbreaker cause I ain't paying to be insulted
Outlets like ign are reviewing games for people who view videogames as a general piece of media entertainment like a movie or netflix tv show. Their audience isn't the kind of person who watches niche gaming streams and has arguments about games in yt comments and view games as their primary or only hobby
Oh Tron was officially announced? Missed that. Damn, definitely a downside to avoiding social media. As far as the awards, I don’t really care what’s nominated in what category. Doesn’t matter what awards show it is, there is always something. Makes for an interesting conversation but nothing to get butt hurt about. Voters have made worse decisions in recent months.
If you’re calling Black Myth Wukong a linear boss rush game then you barely played it. The first chapter is very linear. The rest of the game is way more open than most other soulslikes.
I'm of the mindset of creative darwinism Best piece of art wins. Shadow of the Erdtree is easily the best thing I played this year and it's not even close. Literally no one is saying it shouldn't be nominated because of its quality- only because it's classification as DLC If a SEMANTICAL argument is all that stands in the way, then clearly it does deserve to be there and possibly win
Semantics are important. Game = new standalone videogame. Otherwise why can't basketball be a nominee? Why can't a season of Fortnite? Year = Earth Year. Or why not a Mars, Jupiter or Saturn year? No one is saying SOTE shouldn't be nominated based on it's quality because a) no one othinks that and b) it's irrelevant to the discussion. If you want a "Best Piece of Art of the Year" category then by all means create it but that's not what GOTY is.
I had this conversation in the comments section of another video, and I hard disagree with the people saying that something can't be nominated for GotY just because it's a DLC. What you're essentially saying if you argue this is that it would be completely ok to be nominated if the devs had simply put in a front-end launcher that allowed you to play it standalone with no other changes whatsoever to the game. This doesn't change the base product AT ALL, and it has nothing to do with what the definition of a "game" is, yet it completely changes the situation for these people. In the other conversation I had, I equated it with this analogy: If Peter Jackson had required people to have paid for and watched 'The Fellowship of the Ring' before being allowed to watch 'The Two Towers' with absolutely nothing else changing about the movies, you would have to argue that then 'The Two Towers' couldn't be nominated as a movie if you wanted to remain intellectually consistent here. All because of the way the payment works alone, nothing to do with the actual thing itself. I think it's basically a nonsensical argument based solely on what someone has to pay for and how the launcher works, which seems like a super shallow way to group games into categories.
There is no meaningful difference between Shadow of the Erdtree and a World of Warcraft content patch. So in order for your argument to remain logically consistent, game patches have to be admissible as GotY nominees. In which case, I nominate the most recent Baldur's Gate 3 patch as GotY.
@ValtronHK If you're being intellectually honest here, the analogy would be a WoW major expansion. If BG3 added a new expansion content patch that added an entire new map with its own subtitle, then I would say that it should be eligible. If you're really arguing that there's no difference between this and just a normal patch then I would have to assume at that point that you're not arguing in good faith...
Also never agrees with alanahs stance with portal and sequels. Youre judging on its own merits not how it built on what came before. Portal 2 is better in almost every way. Doesnt matter that 1 came first
We’re back baby…. Missed the show these last few weeks.
It's not about quality, nor lenght... it's because you have to have a base game and play hours and hours to even access it and play it. It's an extension of a game and not a standalone experience.
Yep. It would totally be a different conversation if you didn't have to own the base game. Now, Blood and Wine won the RPG category years ago when it was just an expansion for The Witcher 3, as well. I think that was messed up, too. Unless you can play the expansion as a standalone without the original game than it's just an extension of the original product and you're essentially giving the nomination to the same game twice.
Totally. I don't see how the other points people bring up are relevant at all. There's been short games that have won that category. You shouldn't need to buy another/the base game to play it.
I completely agree that the only good argument is how we access it, and people keep talking about things like lenght. But even the question about how to access it is complicated, because if this has to be considered, I believe other things have to be considered as well. As an example: FF7 Rebirth is definitely a GOTY contender... but ONLY IF you played the first part. Is it really a standalone experience if you have to play the first part to enjoy it completely? If you play only the second one, getting a story with no beggining nor end makes it GOTY worthy? (This also applies to many sequels in which the stories contineus, like Mass Effect 2 and 3)
Also, if how you access it is important, should we take in consideration things like pricing? How many platforms is it on? System or accessory requirements? It may seem strange, but I think if you would have to make how we access the game a thing, I really think some of these questions should be important.
In the end, what I think is that this DLC thing is really the smallest of problems, and I wouldn't mind if Shadow of the Erdtree won. It would be very hard for another game to do this again, and if no game is better than an expansion of a game, maybe the expansion deserves more. For me the most bizarre thing is the Fighting Game category. Not only we have a collection of old games as contenders (Marvel Collection), but we also have Multiversus, a game that was released two years ago, WON THIS CATEGORY, and now is being re-released and being considered again...
Which isn't a requirement for determining GOTY. Newness and quality are the only thing that matters
@@chrono_s9699 it a new extension of a base game, not a new game.
I think a DLC/Expansion category makes most sense logically. Plus you get to give more games the spotlight by adding a category that really feels like it belongs as its own category. So it just seems like the easy way to please all and spotlight more games. Win/win.
the way Austin is just chill dude. love it!
Austin during PWL is a shining example of: Any more Laid back, he'd be asleep.
Petition for Mike to sign off in that manner every episode please
Saw your comment before watching and have been curious the whole time how it would end, did not disappoint lol
Oh my god I’m crying at the way it ends
At the end of the day TGA isn't really about who wins or loses, it's about whether or not we get an RE9 reveal!
Add a new death Stranding trailer and maybe even a max Payne 1+2 remake teaser to this lol
I love how animated and passionate Mike gets when talking about his work 😊 I feel his excitement and it's very sweet to see
You know what? I'm gonna wish list Tron: Catalyst just to spite you two
The Game of the Year award should only go to stand alone releases. For example The Witcher 3's dlc shouldn't be eligible but AC Valhalla: Dawn of Ragnarok should be eligible in their respective years. Sequels, even if they're almost identical, should be eligible just like at the Oscars with LOTR. Can you image people saying that Return of the King wasn't eligible because it didn't "shake up the formula enough" from the Fellowship of the Ring? That'd be crazy!
Trent Reznor once said ‘an award only means as much as the entity that bestows it upon you’ or something similar
Imagine if a previous year Oscar winner added a bunch of scenes, enough to double the length of the movie. Should that be eligible for a new Oscar?
I really dont get how its even a discussion.
3:43 Not a fan of this argument because if we follow this logic through to its entirety, all sequels are DLCs. God of a War: Ragnarok would effectively be a DLC technically. I don't think we should be using the fact that SotE is 20+ hours and makes improvements or whatever to the base game as a reason for why it deserves to be in the GOTY nominee category. If we did, then Witcher 3's Blood and Wine (a 20 hour expansion with improvements) would then be considered to be a nominee in the GOTY category as a FULL-FLEDGED game. It isn't.
Blood and Wine is actually a previous example of this issue as it was nominated and awarded Best RPG of the year at the Game Awards in 2016 which should already have been an issue back then.
@@HalfpennyTerwilliger Best RPG is different from overall GOTY.
@@Kingdom850The principle is the same. The category is Best Role Playing GAME. Erdtree's category context is GAME of the Year. The discussion is the same. Does DLC count as a Game.
You guys don't think I'll wishlist this game?! I hope you're watching the wishlist counter because it is about to go up by 1.
It's not just "it's a dlc". It's also "you need the base game and to invest several hours into it to get to the dlc"
It's also not the first time, Witcher Blood and Wine was nominated
It's controversial, sure, but if it's one of the gaming's best experiences of the year, then it's kinda justified, but everything should be taken into account.
oh god yes. I've missed this podcast.
Amount of content shouldn't be a factor in GOTY, but the idea that it's an actual game should be a definitive qualifier. You shouldn't have to buy another game, play it extensively before you can start playing the "Game of the Year". Extra content for a game should be it's own category, because if SOTE is eligible then all DLC, expansions, and even MTX technically qualify... which is complete nonsense BS.
Many Media outlets and youtuber had this conversion not to long ago. Hours put into game and amount content does not make a good game. Starfield was a big example were complain it had to much content
100% - this is the only correct answer IMO
Mike's audio was crisp and clear this episode! The conversation around awards was interesting especially within the context of the article that came out this past week about the top grossing movies this year nearly all being sequels. I'm excited for and happy for your next Tron game, Mike! Great and insightful conversation as always~
I'm with Mike - I like discs. Even without that though, I only ever liked CoD games for the single player campaigns. If Activision released a "CoD Light" version of the games, stripped back of all the MP content so it was just the campaign, I'd be satisfied. I'd also be a return customer instead of playing whatever happened to be on gamepass at the time if I remember to look.
Balatro is the ultimate airplane game
Good to have you all back
Black Myth Wukong ended up being my personal GOTY, as incredible as some other games this year have been 😊 Besides the phenomenal graphics and combat and boss fights, its method of storytelling (journal entries for all enemies and bosses, different types of cinematic animations between chapters, time traveled secret areas, etc.) felt so captivating and unique.
To your point on expecting Sekiro, Alanah, I think the only game that will outdo Sekiro is a sequel or spiritual successor by From Software. None of the games inspired by it (Wo Long, Stellar Blade, Black Myth Wukong, etc.) have quite reached its level 😅
I would legit love if From Software dropped a version of Shadow of the Erdtree as a standalone game where you didn't need to play the base game to replay it. It is essentially a sequel. Shorter sequel. But that's fine!
The story is meant to take place before the end of the Main Game
I just picked up Silent Hill 2 and I was very happy to hear someone else thinks it's a very scary game. So far, I've only played it in small chunks because of what it does to my poor ticker. Every enemy gets two extra stomps in my frantic "Just die" style of trying to stay alive. This is another one of those games that makes me think my neighbors on the other side of our thin apartment walls probably think I'm crazy. Headphones on, totally silent, then "Oh no, it's weird flesh thing, why", "God I hate it so much", "Fuck off and die". Followed by my calm down game Tales of Arise where the game's random audio barks will occasionally cause the main character to say "Huh, what's this?" when picking up a potato. So the neighbors have heard all reactions to Silent Hill, long pause, laughs then "What is potato?".
The walls aren't thin enough to hear all that, just makes me laugh to think about if they could.
HA! Just from knowing we consume similar media, I know Mike is talking about Jacob Geller's video about the twist thing and yeah...I haven't got it yet but it did sell me too
Great fun! I really enjoy this podcast. Thank you.
It could've been sold as a separate stand alone game and cost 60$ and everyone would've eaten it up. It has 60 hours of content. Almost as many new toys to play with, bosses, locations etc as the Elden Ring itself. It absolutely deserves the nomination. Many sequels have reused assets and animations and whotnot. Way i see it this is just a semantics issue, which is reductive and distracting of what an actual masterpiece of art SoTE is and its need of highest level of recognition.
This might be the first time I've never played any of the GOTY nominees lol
I guess this was a weak year
@@gurjindersingh3843 or a very strong one, and they have a list of 6 other valid goty's
Steam is telling me Catalyst is similar to the Spider-Man and Miles Morales
As far as I'm concerned DCLs should be in their own category, I don't care how long it takes to play them. Shadow of the Erdtree shouldn't have been nominated for GOTY just like Monster Hunter Iceborn shouldn't have been nominated for best RPG in 2019 and Witcher 3 Blood and Wine shouldn't have been nominated and awarded best RPG in 2016 either. I think the spotlight should be on new games released that year only (remasters and remakes are another can of worms entirely and considering how many there are each year now, I would also think they need their own category).
And if we do count DLC for GOTY, where the beep is Resident Evil 4 Remake's VR DLC in the VR GOTY category (never mind Madison VR not being nominated) at least be consistent Game Award peeps.
I've been gone too long as well since there was no mention of Mike's stache which was new to me. Not gone long enough to have expected Troy to be here.
Has Mike ever rode a snow bike?
I'm five minutes in and boy is this intriguing 😂
INSIDE is amazing, like one of the best games ever, and I feel landing a massive ship like BG 3 with that quality and result must be tremendously difficult and direction is key to bring all that together like that too.
In my eyes reward people that put in the hard work.
All content we play is a Game. The fact that Erdtree requires majority completion of base Elden Ring is not only inconsequential, it gives even more weight to the nomination. In spite of not accessing this content until well over 30-40 hours of gameplay in Elden Ring, it is one of the best Game Experiences of the year.
The point of adding additional categories to any kind of award show is to highlight aspects of the industry that are under-represented in other categories. The reason to add a DLC/Expansion Category should be that there are DLCs and Expansions that you want to credit that aren't getting recognition.
The point of a Best Game, Game of the Year, etc, is to say "This is the best thing you can play this year".
It's funny, I looked it up and wish listed catalyst as soon as Mike said it was an isometric action game set in the Tron: Identity universe. Didn't need to be dared, didn't know about the link in the description until the deed had already been done.
I want the crew to play 1000xResist, easily one of the best and most unique games this year
We back baby!
I tried playing shadow of the erdtree, but it's forceing me to buy another game as well
Your loss
@@yellowflash511 How so? They want to play a 2024 GOTY contender, but it's not possible when its gated behind the purchase of a game from two years ago.
I think the worst part of having Shadow of the Erdtree being nominated as GOTY is that it will stifle creativity and new ideas.
Why make a game from scratch or make an original IP if it’s not being rewarded for how hard it is to do.
Games that are nominated or win definitely help decide what types of games are getting funded and green lighted.
There should be a DLC/Expansion category.
Installed CoD BO 6 yesterday on Xbox, sounds like they handle it better than PlayStation based on Mike's experience they asked me what I wanted to install and I checked Black Ops 6 campaign and Multiplayer and not all the other games.
Wukong is not a boss rush. If you only play the early part of the game, you can think that it is. There is plenty of exploration. It took me 60 hrs to complete everything between exploration and combat. It has huge open areas to explore, secrets, minibosses, and hidden bosses like a souls game. I wish people would stop pushing this false narrative who haven't played through more than the first area.
The game awards jury is too broad, it should be like the baftas.
Do the juries play every nomination they are submitting for a category?
That's a big ask.
Cause some of the choices suggest not, and people just picking known properties in a franchise, not actually if they are meeting the spirit of the category.. or if they are even good instalments of the franchise.
Astro Bot is absolutely my Game of the Year, we need more charming big budget games!
Whereas I'm playing MWII campaign and every time I log in there's a different set of menus and updates.
I've not played Elden Ring at all. Reminds me of The Witcher Blood and Wine. That DLC was so massive, it was basically it's own game. Is Shadow of the Erd Tree on relatively similar scale?
If yes, I have no problem with it being nominated.
Good Afternoon Play, Watch, Listen!! Love seeing Alanah 😍. In regards to the topic, I think a DLC should NEVER be nominated outside of ''Best DLC''. No matter how good it is. The only exception may be if you can buy it separately without purchasing the main game, for example, the DOOM Eternal expansion.
It’s a bit weird to have dlc eligible, but then again if it was exactly the same as it is, but instead had been released as a standalone sort of thing like Wolfenstein: The Old Blood or Spider Man Miles Morales I don’t think people would have as much of an issue with it.
Yes, because those were literally their own games technically. Shadow of the Erdtree objectively is not.
@@themajesticspider-man6116So it’s really just the method of delivery then? If Erdtree was a standalone (otherwise identical) game it would be ok? I think Doom: Eternal’s dlc could be downloaded on its own if I recall correctly. And that feels like a less substantial thing overall than the Elden Ring dlc. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other I’m more just curious what people think. This award stuff is all made up anyway.
@@themajesticspider-man6116 But the delivery mechanism is totally arbitrary: You don't even have look outside the other nominees -- AstroBot is literally Astro's Playroom but More, but because it is "standalone" it gets a pass?
@@brandonrice1403 Of course everything sounds arbitrary when you intentionally dumb it down for the sake of your whataboutism argument. I can use your same stupid logic and just call elden ring "open world dark souls" but that's severely disrespectful to all the things that game does right.
If they changed the thing people have a problem with then people wouldn't have a problem. Insightful lol.
A lot people don’t have the money nor the time to invest in any other games anymore. Most of the people I know barely even played any of the nominees. Of course they’re going to nominate a DLC because that’s all they played this year 😂
To me, Balatro is the most Tertris a game has been since Tetris. If it doesn’t win game of the year, it’ll at least be game of a generation. And as far as DLC goes, if it’s good enough to keep people employed, it should be eligible for awards. Brotato Abyssal Terror not being nominated is the real crime here.
lol what an outro
With Astrobot, I just didn't want to play a game that's essentially am advertisement for a system I already own
Calling it an advertisement isn't really fair imo. Does it lean heavily into its PlayStation roots? Absolutely. But that's not necessarily a bad thing if it's fun and delivers an enjoyable experience.. which it definitely seems like it does (I haven't played it myself). I'll play it at some point, but not for the price point it launched at.
It’s a fun can of worms, DLC as GotY. Does this mean that a game released in January with DLC in October can have its DLC nominated instead of the game itself?
Does it mean that a DLC does not count to a game being GotY?
What is the game is bad and the DLC great, does that mean you just reward the DLC?
I don’t know why they decided to open this can of worms, but it’s interesting.
Anyway, the thing that annoys me is that they nominated FF7 Rebirth instead of Like A Dragon: Infinite Wealth.
10:35 & 10:45 gave me mini heart attacks
The DLC conversation is just the games industry with its head up it's own arse. Something being a DLC is mostly about how that content is delivered to gamers, it doesn't limit the quality or value of the content in any way. No reason to start pretending it ever had some other magical definition.
Personally i think dlc should not be nominated for the game of the year, but i think Shadow of the Erdtree is an exception because it has much more content than some standalone games.
I loved Wukong and i think it should win something, even multiple awards, but i loved Shadow of the Erdtree a bit more, mainly because i like more souls-like combat than devil may cry-style button mashing combat and i think the invisible walls were a bit too thinght in some parts.
So i think Shadow of the Erdtree deserves game of the year...
If I can't purchase and play it as a standalone product I don't think it should qualify irregardless of how long or high quality it is.
I hope it wins just to create chaos
I don't think Austin's music example works. That's all new stuff. Its not refusing existing assets
Shadow of the erdtree is like average play time 60 hrs
What's everyone's favourite game that did not release this year. mine is kingdom come deliverance
Horrible take at 7:00 about the Final Fantasy series. Most entries in the FF series have always been intentionally non canonical. V has never been required to play VI. All seperate entries.
I rebuke the argument that length or quantity of content should have anything to do with the argument of a DLC being considered. The fact that an experience is standalone is all that matters to me. Some of my favourite games ever have been 2 hour experiences. The very fundamental fact that it is an extension of an already lauded experience is disqualifying of consideration. I know people don't care but it annoys me so much. I don't even think the expansion was nearly as good as many think, so many missing cutscenes, boring empty areas, stupidly difficult end boss, mind you I still thought it was very good and a great experience but one of the best of the year? Nah. Are we going to nominate God of war Ragnarok again for the Valhalla dlc? Which I thought was far better as an expansion as it greatly enriched the base game and character. I don't think we should. There are so many incredible games that get overlooked at these showcase "award" shows that I think should have been nominated instead. Great show as always though!
I’m absolutely down for Dragon’s Dogma 2 being my favorite game of the year. I don’t think it deserves best game of the year on anyone’s list. I could maybe debate best action game or something like that, not GOTY. Oh well, glad to hear Alanah liked it too.
It's so sad that it did not have any story to back up the great gameplay.
Ok I will not wish list Tron catalyst, geez. 😅
Is Balatro as addictive as inscryption?
I fully understand people who see the complaints about nominating DLC for GOTY as pointless categorization wankery. On the other hand: this is the Game of the Year Awards - _the entire thing_ is an exercise in pointless categorization wankery, so why draw the line there? If I cared at all about the Geoff Keighley MTV Game Awards Sponsored By Gillette, I'd probably mind that SotE was nominated, but fortunately I don't.
I 100% thought that Alanah said that game had a porn system. '... What?'
But I can't play SotET without Elden Ring 2022 🤷♂️
This is gonna be spicy 😀
The 2 biggest issues with erdtree being nominated are 1) it requires you to own the base game and play through like 2/3 of it to get to the starting point for the dlc, like if i bought god of war ragnarok and tried to play it and it was like sorry play god of war 2018 first before you can access your purchase you won't be categorizing it as it's own game. and 2) i don't think it deserves to be nominated in the first place, the boss design the thing fromsoft is known for was just bad for most of the dlc mesmer and relana were 2 genuinely fun fights the rest of the bosses just felt like a slog to get through. I enjoyed the dlc overall but the bosses being the weakest part for me kind of knocks it down a peg.
the boss design in Elden Ring itself is lacking, but that didn't stop it from being nominated and winning GOTY.
@@RonyH7 Yes but again at least elden ring is a stand alone game, also I feel like ragnarok or forbidden west should have won in 2022, elden ring is to me behind DS3 and sekiro in terms of boss design.
Don't agree with it improving anything from the base game. What it did do is introduce a new upgrade system that you have to search for...which I wasn't a fan of. I mean it's fine, but there was already an upgrade system in place and now my lvl 240 character is useless until I find scadutree fragments? Meh. Dlc was a lot of fun, I wouldn't vote for it being game of the year though, the final shape was better imo. Dlcs should just have their own category
It's whatever at the end of the day, but if we're gonna be completely honest with ourselves and have a genuine discussion, there is a point to thinking it shouldn't be a GOTY nominee, which I personally agree with.
Releasing an EP with 4 songs on it is not releasing an album, and is not eligible to a Grammy award. Erdtree is an expansion, not “DLC”. DLC means nothing. A costume in The First Descendant is DLC. And technically buying Cyberpunk digitally makes the whole game DLC because it’s been downloaded. What are we doing here? An expansion is not a game because it can’t run without an actual game. Period. A sidecar is not a car.
Shadow of the Erdtree is the only of the GOTY nominees I've actually played but ironically the one I think should be on the list the least. There are a number of reasons for this:
1. It's a DLC that requires another base game and purchase to access.
2. To access the DLC you have to play through more than half of the base game and beat a relatively difficult optional boss, which is a high barrier to entry for some players. You can also beeline Radahn and Varré's side quest, but that isn't a realistic expectation for the average player, and beating Mohg while underlevelled/geared is also a considerable challenge.
3. The DLC, while well made, doesn't fundamentally do anything different or transformative from the base game. It's a new area with new bosses, NPCs and enemies, but in terms of overall experience it's essentially just more Elden Ring. If a DLC is going to be considered a GOTY contender I'd like it to do something more to distinguish itself from the game it's a DLC of, especially if said game already won GOTY a couple years prior.
With those reasons given, I definitely would have preferred to see another standalone game like Silent Hill 2 take the nomination spot.
There should be a new category for DLCs and expansions. I think remakes are fine being considered for GOTY as long as they are different enough from the original in more ways than a simple graphics overhaul. For example: new or rewritten story, dialogue and cutscenes, new or expanded game mechanics, areas, enemies etc.
If you have to play hours and hours of the base game to access a DLC within the game, that DLC should not be eligible for GOTY. Its not about SOTE deserving recognition or not, cause it does obviously. SOTE though is not a game, Elden Ring is the game, and it already won GOTY and it was well deserved.
Honestly I loved SOTE despite some of the lore implications it changed, but the idea to me that it deserves a GOTY award when Phantom Liberty wasn't even nominated or talked about last year is WILD.
Finally
Mike: You can't quantify creativity.
AI: Hold my beer.
SOTE was the best game to come out this year for the Bayle boss fight alone.
Im all for sequels and remakes to be included but this is ridiculous imo. Very strongly against erd tree
I think dlc wouls be fine IF it was standalone
But since you have to buy and beat the main campaign to even access the, it's more an extension of the game than it's own entity...doesn't matter that it's a several hour long thing
I'm apathetic about DLC being GotY, but I don't think it should win simply because of the poor performance, reused textures and enemies, and general feeling that exploration isn't useful.
I got bored of it, trying to figure out where to go to unlock the locations only to find that I spent a ton of time looking for caves and secret passages only for it to be available later.
It's a 6/10 for me.
SoE tranformed my favourite game of all time. It added a post game that validated my 200 hour playthrough in a way I didn't imagine was possible. And made it fun to beat the entire game again with all the new weapons/ balance changes.
While I'm sure the 25 hour crowd had fun, SoE was a peak 100+ hour experience across my entire life.
While shorter than the first game, it was tighter and an improvement in pretty much every way.
The idea we have a game of the year award, and say "this isn't a game", is silly.
Why draw imaginary lines in the sand?
Drama of the Year
G'day fellow scientists!
Long time player, watcher, listener and first time commenter.
Questions for the panel;
Alanah: Researchers are encouraged to write papers through the lens of creating a narrative or having a story thread. What suggestions can you share to keep a technical narrative engaging?
Austin: Wha-
Troy: What does Norman Reedus taste like? Also, does it feel different using your likeness in a game as opposed to an animated appearance?
Mike: As a director, has your baseline knowledge of various aspects of game development increased over time and has that helped with project scoping?
Austin: It is often said video game music is designed for player focus. How true do you think this is and what techniques do you implement to achieve engagement?
Thanks for making this podcast, it's the only one I listen/watch (and play?) and it's great to chuck on while processing data (your conversations are often more intellectual than ones I have with other scientists!)
Cheers
I agree with most of whats being said but i think the sequel arguments being made are a bit silly. Even if they are building off of the previous game, if the sequel was better than it is a better game. If portal 1 had all same mechanics but for whatever reason was just AWFUL and Portal 2 was unchanged still building off the mechanics of portal 1 would you not say its the better game or is the bad game better because it came first? We wouldnt even have portal if not for narbacular drop tho so should that be ahead of both of them? How far back does it go? Is the 100 best games of all time just the first 100 games in the order they came out in?
Same with GOTY nominations, if theres a sequel that has a much better story better, gameplay, expanded/new maps, but broadstrokes have the same fundamentals (ie GOW Ragnarok) are we not allowed to say that this is tge best game that came out this year?
For me if elden ring brings out dlc every year it could be nominated every year just because the base game is that good. It's not stand alone and therefore it's not a game. Elden ring is the game. Just my opinion.
Really glad to hear your takes on this and I'm so glad to hear Austin reference Spiderman: Miles Morales because it highlights my thoughts on this -- Everyone is wringing their hands over the inclusion of Shadow of the Erdtree because of a label. "It's DLC!" the masses cry "Elden Ring got the win already!" the whinge "It sets a bad precedent!" the echo chamber repeats ad nauseum
.....Why are we so slavishly adhering to the label?
Developers didn't have to work less hard because it's "DLC"
It didn't bring people less joy because it's "DLC"
It isn't *lesser* because of its circumstance in any way
And chiefly -- It's the Supreme Court Pornography argument: *We know it when we see it.* I don't like the idea that the nomination is bad because it's dependent on the notion that the jury and the audience are too stupid to make judgment without a universal checklist of what things are or aren't. It's okay if the lines are blurred once in a while, because I dont think anyone has lost sight of the underlying sentiment of the nomination: Did this bring us joy?
For me, Shadow the Erdtree answers that simple criterion with a resounding yes, and is worthy of recognition for all the superb labor and love that went into creating it.
"
If it were stand-alone it'd be fine, but it feels wrong to me that if I want to play one of the nominees of this GOTY awards I have to buy and play almost entirely through a game from a previous year.
You typed up this thesis when nobody ever said that Erdtree doesn't deserve the praise for all the work that was put into it. *It does.* But it is not a full video game. It is not a standalone experience like Miles Morales. It requires a video game to play, with significant amount of hours poured into said game to even REACH the content in the first place. That's people's issues with nominating it a GOTY contender, not that it "doesn't deserve praise". Have zero clue how you came to that conclusion.
It's not just a "label". _You can not play Shadow of the Erdtree without owning Elden Ring._
@@StreIok737I understand that -- but I draw issue with that as the basis for exclusion because required previous investment is common across media.
Like they cover: You can play God of War Ragnarok without having played the first but its not going to make much sense is it?
Should Empire Strikes Back or Return of the King or Avengers Endgame be excluded from awards consideration because other films are required viewing to access their quality?
At the end of the day, I trust that the nomination is because it is easy to argue that it is one of the best gaming experiences of the year, and it doesnt have to be any more difficult or technical than that.
@@brandonrice1403 I see the argument but the scale is clearly different compared to those examples (the only "quality" that's restricted in those examples is plot related, those experiences are much more than that).
People shouldn't be asking why a dlc got nominated...people should be asking why a piece of dlc was better than 99% of full games released this year
Elden ring is a "game of the generation" calibre game, and sote is just more of it, so ofcourse its still at the pinnacle . If you let them, it could be a top 6 every year, like portal 2 or breath of the wild would be for many. It's not that it was a slow year by any stretch, but not everyone can compete with what many consider to be the greatest game of all time
At 10:00 you say user reviews aren't useful because there mostly 10 or 0. User reviews I'd say are more useful then "professionals" and you just consider the ones with some text that the person actually put some care and thought into since many just write great/trash. More useful then big publications reviews, everythings either a 7/10 cause they only play it safe or it's like Veilguard and they all 100% glossed over that the writing is shit and insulting and I'm sorry but that's material, knowing that and being informed for me and many is a dealbreaker cause I ain't paying to be insulted
Its not that serious. Yal more serious about this than voting for real people lol
No If you need to turn on the original game to play new content, it's no longer a new game. It shouldn't be included.🤷🏾
Outlets like ign are reviewing games for people who view videogames as a general piece of media entertainment like a movie or netflix tv show. Their audience isn't the kind of person who watches niche gaming streams and has arguments about games in yt comments and view games as their primary or only hobby
10 outta 10 sign off. No notes. 😂
Oh Tron was officially announced? Missed that. Damn, definitely a downside to avoiding social media.
As far as the awards, I don’t really care what’s nominated in what category. Doesn’t matter what awards show it is, there is always something. Makes for an interesting conversation but nothing to get butt hurt about. Voters have made worse decisions in recent months.
Sote wins get over it
If you’re calling Black Myth Wukong a linear boss rush game then you barely played it. The first chapter is very linear. The rest of the game is way more open than most other soulslikes.
I'm of the mindset of creative darwinism
Best piece of art wins.
Shadow of the Erdtree is easily the best thing I played this year and it's not even close.
Literally no one is saying it shouldn't be nominated because of its quality- only because it's classification as DLC
If a SEMANTICAL argument is all that stands in the way, then clearly it does deserve to be there and possibly win
Semantics are important. Game = new standalone videogame. Otherwise why can't basketball be a nominee? Why can't a season of Fortnite? Year = Earth Year. Or why not a Mars, Jupiter or Saturn year? No one is saying SOTE shouldn't be nominated based on it's quality because a) no one othinks that and b) it's irrelevant to the discussion. If you want a "Best Piece of Art of the Year" category then by all means create it but that's not what GOTY is.
I had this conversation in the comments section of another video, and I hard disagree with the people saying that something can't be nominated for GotY just because it's a DLC. What you're essentially saying if you argue this is that it would be completely ok to be nominated if the devs had simply put in a front-end launcher that allowed you to play it standalone with no other changes whatsoever to the game. This doesn't change the base product AT ALL, and it has nothing to do with what the definition of a "game" is, yet it completely changes the situation for these people.
In the other conversation I had, I equated it with this analogy:
If Peter Jackson had required people to have paid for and watched 'The Fellowship of the Ring' before being allowed to watch 'The Two Towers' with absolutely nothing else changing about the movies, you would have to argue that then 'The Two Towers' couldn't be nominated as a movie if you wanted to remain intellectually consistent here.
All because of the way the payment works alone, nothing to do with the actual thing itself.
I think it's basically a nonsensical argument based solely on what someone has to pay for and how the launcher works, which seems like a super shallow way to group games into categories.
There is no meaningful difference between Shadow of the Erdtree and a World of Warcraft content patch. So in order for your argument to remain logically consistent, game patches have to be admissible as GotY nominees. In which case, I nominate the most recent Baldur's Gate 3 patch as GotY.
@ValtronHK
If you're being intellectually honest here, the analogy would be a WoW major expansion. If BG3 added a new expansion content patch that added an entire new map with its own subtitle, then I would say that it should be eligible.
If you're really arguing that there's no difference between this and just a normal patch then I would have to assume at that point that you're not arguing in good faith...
Also never agrees with alanahs stance with portal and sequels. Youre judging on its own merits not how it built on what came before. Portal 2 is better in almost every way. Doesnt matter that 1 came first
So much better without Troy Baker on here