A Song of Ice and Fire: The Pink Letter Mystery Part 1
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- A detailed analysis of who wrote "the pink letter" aka "the bastard letter," the infamous letter that Jon Snow receives at the end of A Dance With Dragons. Heavy Spoilers!
Part 2: • A Song of Ice and Fire...
Part 3: • A Song of Ice and Fire...
Alliances of Iron (The Ironborn, Theon, Balon, Asha, Euron, Victarion, Daario, Moqorro, the Corsair King, the Shrouded Lord, Dragon Horns)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
Tower, Tower, Joy, Joy (The Tower of Joy, Jon Snow’s Parentage, Daenerys’ Parentage, the Tournament at Harrenhal, Howland Reed, Ashara Dayne)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
The Littlefinger Debt Scheme (Littlefinger, Sansa, Harrenhal, the Riot of King’s Landing, Ned’s Execution, the Bank of Braavos)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
The Dornish Master Plan (Qyburn, the Brave Companions, Aemon, Mirri Maz Duur, Quentyn)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
Riverlands of the Dragon (The Brotherhood Without Banners, Thoros, House Darry)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
Dragonless Ambitions (Maesters, the Dance of the Dragons, House Hightower)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
Cold Conspiracies (Stannis, House Manderly, House Umber, the Hooded Man, the Battle of Ice)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
The Pink Letter Mystery (Mance Rayder, Val, Tormund Giantsbane, Giants, Greenseers)
• A Song of Ice and Fire...
Daenerys (Quaithe, Viserys, Drogo, Jhorah, Illyrio, Qarth, Pyat Pree, the House with the Red Door)
• Daenerys Videos
What You Are Missing (a detailed show and book comparison)
• Game of Thrones: What ...
Season Five Watch (The Season Five review)
• Game of Thrones: Seaso...
Dude, you forgot the most important piece of evidence. The writer claims he has killed Stannis, but he later states he wants his Reek back. Reek is in captivity of Stannis, so if Stannis was really dead, he'd already have Reek...
Jesse Klapwijk get this man a cookie
I assumed Ramsay wrote the letter but lied about having killed Stannis
Or the letter was written after the battle. Time is not always linear in ASOIAF
Maybe reek escaped stannis
Jesse Klapwijk reek might escaped before stannis death
I wrote the Pink Letter, bend the knee.
I can confirm that is Grace did indeed write it after I fucked a Unicorn on Skagos.
Your Grace this idiot seems to think Mance wrote it. Should we burn him?
I am for you cleansing the land. Westeros has a lot of people in it who need killing.
You think a few bits of pink wax will make you king?
I think "black crows" really sells it being Mance since it's wildling language.
While I don't think Mance wrote the letter, there's no way in Hell Ramsay wrote it. It's simply not his letter, in any sense; bears none of his trademarks, doesn't really make sense for him to send it in the first place, just, nothing.
It was probably sent by Tyrion to get Jon to marry Dany and give birth to the Dragonborn to fight Sauron. That's my guess.
Kane Taylor it was melisandre
Adriel Lopez Yeah definitely it's so obvious
&
I thought it was the brothers of the Knights Watch who do not like Jon
Dude... You forgot about the part where Anakin kills Gendry.
There's a point in book 2 I think when Arya is traveling with Yoren to The North, a suthener pessant calls Yoren a crow when he plucks some corn from a farm.
[parrafrse, I dont have the book in front of me]
Yoren: "There was a time a sworn brother of the Night's Watch was feasted from Dorne to Winterfel, now he has to beg for a wormy apple"
Pessant: "That is not an apple, that`s sweetcorn, wich is more than a bloody crow like you deserves."
Well yes, I think merely the fact that Yoren's (and later Daeron's) position is called "Wandering Crow" shows that southerners are aware of and use "crow" as a slang term to refer to men of the Night's Watch. But in this video what Preston is talking about is specifically calling them "Black crows". Adding the word black in front is something that is very characteristic of wildling speech. Specifically it's only ever used by Osha, Craster, Ygritte, Rattleshirt, Mance Rayder, Harma Dogshead, Tormund Giantsbane, and one time Jon Snow when he's describing wildlings' hatred of the Watch.
Now maybe just putting a colour before a noun isn't completely indicative of what background or ethnic group someone comes from. But I think if you look at how there is a clear pattern in how the books only combines those two words in a single specific context, despite being used many different times throughout all the books, it seems clear that it's a deliberate phrasing with meaning to the author. Also you can see where it isn't used. It's actually not used at all in one of the four books. And sure enough, it's the book where there is no wildling dialogue, AFFC.
I always thought the nights watch wrote the letter.....
Well it gives an accurate count of the spear wives and mentions Mance Rayder who everyone thinks is dead so probably not.
The nights watch wouldnt know about theon (reek) or mance
OMG thanks for using one of my fanart pieces on this. it's the ramsay one at 1.30. Ive been going through a few of your videos so it was a nice surprise to see,
Daniel McCloskey very nice. What made you base him off the actor instead of his book description? It does like just like him, I never liked his portrayal of Ramsay tho
@@derekwalter4238 The one at 1:25 looks like the actor. The one at 1:32 looks like neither show nor book, but the one at 1:30 is clearly based off of book Ramsay.
It's amazing to see how far your video making skills have come since your first theory, you've done some great work
ikr
Just because the Boltons are garrisoned inside Winterfell does not mean that they would use Starks signature wax.
Ten years later…
The maester of the dreadfort would, and it just so happens that Stannis has the maester of the dreadfort in his possession
Holy shit, green eggs and ham spoilers!!!
Yup, I think it was written by Abel (Mance), but also with the help of Reek (Theon). I just re-read the part in the books where the Wildling spearwives find Reek in the Godswood and declare that he will "sing for Abel". It suddenly seems obvious to me that along with helping them plan their escape, Reek also helped pen the letter. Abel doesn't know Ramsay too well, so he would very possibly need Reek's help to be able to successfully imitate him.
Possibly. Sadly we'll never know.
ahhhh the good old times when preston would explain the mystery after 5 minutes. now we have to watch the whole 10 part series to get to the point :)
"it's on their friggen flag"
sometimes I love your snarky quips hahahaha
“His handwriting was off because he went through it quickly and forgot to get any flaying in that afternoon...” haha Preston is the man.
2:29 “forgot to get any flaying in that afternoon” makes me imagine Ramsay and Roose having a setup something like the miniature putting greens you’d find in a stockbroker’s office.
Roose repeatedly slashing at air while dictating letters to a maester.
10/10 Melisandre impression.
When Jon says "Only the Dreadfort uses pink wax", he's metaphorically referring to the Boltons, meaning that only the Boltons use pink wax. It doesn't matter where they are or what castle they have. The pink is the color of their house. Ramsay has used pink wax before...the letter in THE WAYWARD BRIDE was sent from Barrowton...
You don't get to see thew whole of the first letter. Only a couple lines. Still, any writing style difference could be easily explained by an obvious difference in Ramsay's mood at the time of the writing.
Ramsay likes to flay people, but he doesn't need so many pets. Also, Roose is in charge and he probably wouldn't deem it expedient to keep so many people alive for flaying. He probably would have ordered them beheaded, honestly.
Nobody brought up the ceremony. Someone said false king, which is exactly what someone loyal to King Tommen would call Stannis. The letter only brings up the claim that Mance was burned because he obviously wasn't and Ramsay is annoyed by the lie. No surprise here.
Nobody's talking about wildlings outside of the obvious reasons to, like the fact that Jon covertly sent a team to steal Ramsay's bride. Why would he yell at Jon about anything other than that? Jon has no power over Stannis or his kingdom. It does Ramsay no good to talk to Jon about that stuff. He would want to address that stuff to the king or, if Stannis is dead, to the new regent, meaning Selyse. But Ramsay doesn't care about that stuff because Jon tried to take his pet and that pissed him off more than anything else. It all makes perfect sense coming from Ramsay, dude.
The name is Arya, not Aya...have you even read the books?
Ramsay is crazy. What don't you get about that? He's irrational and a terrible tactician and politician. We know all that. If Ramsay wrote the letter, he wouldn't give a flying fuck about some fake queen and princess that he'd never even met before. All that would matter to him is the loss of Reek and the loss of his bride and the circumstances surrounding that specifically.
Now, I do think that Mance wrote the letter, but only for one reason. The use of the term "Black Crows". About 95% of your video is just you spewing total crap.
I still remember the 1st time I watched this, thankyou so much for your wonderful channel Preston Jacobs :)
where did you find all that sick art? These books need animations for each book..feature length series.
I absolutely agree
Google
Check out the comic book. The game of thrones book one comic book is already out and complete I think. It's great and is not based on the show.
The letter is written by Ramsey but it isn't truly his words.
During the chaos at Winterfell during Theon's escape Mance (disguised as the bard) has taken Ramsay hostage and smuggled him out of Winterfell. He is currently bringing him to the wall and is torturing him in the process in order to ensure that he writes the pink letter.
The reason the letter was wrote was to ensure that Jon turned his back on the watch and subsequently is stabbed to death. This is done in order to release him from his duties as a black brother and lord commander. It even says in the oath 'Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death'.
Jon will be declared dead and burnt, but thanks (in part) to Melisandre he will be resurrected and proclaimed to be Azor Ahai.
Stannis will be annoyed.
I believe that Ramsay wrote the letter, but while it was being sent, it was changed by several people, perhaps including Wyman Manderley, Mance, and perhaps Melisandre. The important thing is that the message is real, but it has been changed. 🤔
I didn't think Jon going off to winterfell (he was going to come back and he is lord commander) was the main reason for his Caesar stabbing, I thought it was more to do with allowing more and more wildlings to take parts of the wall and go in the gift.
Great picture of melisandre in flames.
Preston Jacobs. The man who did everything first! This video is a fucking classic.
I come back to it every few years!! Hope is comment brings you back!!
"Eat the green eggs and ham and be reborn Azor Ahai"
Even though I greatly admire your work on this theory, and I thank you for making a video explaining all your reasons to believe that the letter was written by Mance, I am not convinced, and here is why:
1) Wrong wax color
Hum, no. Grey is the color of House Stark, and pink is the color of House Bolton. Even though Ramsay married "Arrya Stark", he's still a Bolton, Winterfell and the North now belong to the Bolton. Not to the Stark, who they defeated.
2) Wrong writing
How do we know that? The video only says that the previous letter (to the Greyjoys) was written in "huge spiky hand", it doesn't say anything about the writing style of the pink letter.
And anyway, now that Ramsay is a Lord, he probably has a maester writing his letter for him.
3) Wrong writing style
Not enough proof that the style is different here. I don't have both letters under my eyes right now, but I think both were pretty much alike (eloquent and crude at the same time, with open threats)
4) No skin
Ramsay would maybe have sent Stannis' skin if he had indeed killed him. But I don't think he did yet. And Mance's and the spearwives' skin are worth nothing, he's just a wildling, so whose skin would he send anyway?
Another explanation could be that he asked a maester to write the letter, and thought that the maester wouldn't have been to keen on writing on human skin.
5) No blood
Now that he's Lord of Winterfell and living surrounded by other Lords, and especially with his father next to him, Ramsay has to hide how f*cked up he is. So yeah, he didn't ask the maester who probably write this letter to write it with blood. Or maybe he just didn't think about it this time, or didn't want to always do the same thing. It would not be funny.
6) Wrong torture
Then you say "Boltons flay". Well, no, not anymore. Only Ramsay likes to flay people. Roose definitely doesn't want him to flay people in front of the other Lords of the North. He can talk about it, and do in secret: as long as no one knows or have any evidence of it, Roose doesn't care. But at Winterfell, Ramsay must behave.
(still I must confess that I LOVE your impersonation of Melisandre XD)
7) "False king"
I wish I had a digital version of ASOIAF just to count how many times this expression was used, and by how many different characters.
8) Why bring up the ceremony, burning and magic sword?
This letter is an accusation of treachery. Ramsay is accusing Jon of betraying the Wall's neutrality, because that's what he did when he tried to kidnap "Arya", which is politically essential to the Bolton to have some legitimacy as Warden of the North and over the other Lords.
But since this major treachery has been exposed, Ramsay also mention all the other lies, the many lies of Jon and Stannis and Melisandre. Which are: the false sword linked to the false prophecy, and the false burning of Mance (the important part here is that they said they had killed him, and instead they sent him to steal Ramsay's bride - Ramsay doesn't care about HOW they said they had kill him, he only mention the burning because that's what their lie was).
9) Shireen should matter more for anyone vying for the IT
Shireen isn't a threat to anyone. Girls don't inherit -except in Dorne. She is known to be a sick girl, she's not married, she's too young to carry children, she's not a battle commander, etc.
And she's not mentioned as an "afterthought", she's mentioned in the list of all the people Ramsay want, in a order that doesn't look illogical at all.
10) Mance Rayder = only name that is not an alias
Ramsay is listing all of Jon's (and Melisandre's) lies. One of them was the identity of the man that was burnt instead of Mance, and the identity of the singer that came in Winterfell. To expose the truth, he exposes Abel's true name: Mance Rayder.
11) Why would anyone care is Jon was a liar? No one in the 7 Kingdoms would really care.
Yeah, except when the Commander of the Wall, who's gathering a huge army of Black Brothers and thousands of wildlings, and who is housing Stannis' army, starts breaking his neutrality vow to openly ally with Stannis, and to steal your wife who is also the source of your legitimacy over the whole North. Then you start caring about his lies.
12) Other reference to the Wildling Submission Ceremony
Oo where??
13) Why should anyone care about 6 Wildlings, except Wildlings?
Uh, because they murdered people in your castle and then stole your wife and your human pet, maybe? Besides, mentioning that he flays people when he can is a good threat.
14) Ramsay has no reason to ask for Selyse, Mel, Val, the babe, and Theon.
Uh, yeah, he does. When you defeat a King, you want his family to come to you so they can submit, or you want to kill them. Melisandre is a leader of Stannis' army, a lot of people are supporting Stannis because of her prophecies. Besides, she's a with who adores a false god, in the eyes of all the Northmen, and everyone probably think that she did demoniac stuff. She should be killed, I'm sure many agree on that.
About Val and the babe, Ramsay is just doing here the same mistake Stannis made: he believes they are politically important (prince and princess of the wildlings), and that by controlling them he could control the wildlings.
Finally, Reek: he's Ramsay's favorite toy. Deep down, that's the person he wants back the most. And not because he's Prince of the Iron Islands, no one cares about that anymore. He's just Ramsay's Reek.
15) Why focusing on Wildlings?
Ramsay does not focus on wildlings more than on Stannis. But the fact is that they attacked him in his own home, that they stole his Reek and his bride, and that they are a huge army of thousands of people who just crossed the Wall and could become a great threat to Winterfell.
16) "My Reek" is Theon's language
Hell yeah, lol. Since Ramsay rebooted his brain to speak and think like that. Saying that Mance would say that because he heard Theon say that, because Theon heard Ramsay say that, is really far-fetched. The explanation where Ramsay wrote the letter is way more simple and makes more sense.
17) I'm glad that at least you found some arguments to prove that Stannis didn't write this letter. In case some people weren't sure.
18) "Black crows"
I don't know in the term "crow" is used everywhere in Westeros when people want to insult Black Brothers. It could be. But even if it's not commonly used in Westeros, it is at least known of people who's had interactions with wildlings. And one castle the closest to the Wall is the Dreadfort. Without a doubt, they have encountered many a wildlings over the past centuries, enough that they would know of this "crow" insult.
Or Ramsay could just have learned it by talking to Mance of course, but I think it's more probably that he (like many other people) knew this term even before.
I haven't seen the other two videos yet, I will maybe when I have more time.
I'd love to hear your thoughts about my counter-arguments ^^
@agnat86 after having read ASOIAF you must surely know that laws don't really matter in westeros.
People followed Robert against their lawful king because he was strong and Aerys was mad.
I think even Stannis's supporters wouodn't give a fig about Shireen if her father dies , so yes her claim is actually non-existent
@agnat86 a few would,i have no doubt but most will see her more doomed than her father.
@agnat86 yes but Stannis is a military genius who has the favour of a powerful god in the eyes of his followers.
But Dance of the Dragons proved that westeros can't get rid of male promogeniture and people always favour the male claimant.
I love how you use the argument "Ramsay would maybe have sent Stannis' skin if he had indeed killed him. But I don't think he did yet. And Mance's and the spearwives' skin are worth nothing, he's just a wildling, so whose skin would he send anyway?" and then try and pretend that you also believe that "About Val and the babe, Ramsay is just doing here the same mistake Stannis made: he believes they are politically important (prince and princess of the wildlings), and that by controlling them he could control the wildlings."
If Mance is worth nothing, then your second point is already wrong by your own admission. Your entire comment is a mess, but this single contradiction shows you barely thought anything through in the first place.
I'm also not sure you've read the books or watched the video properly, because you say "1) Wrong wax color
Hum, no. Grey is the color of House Stark, and pink is the color of House Bolton. Even though Ramsay married "Arrya Stark", he's still a Bolton, Winterfell and the North now belong to the Bolton. Not to the Stark, who they defeated."
Umm, no. That's not how the Wax seal colours work. Pink is the Dreadfort's Wax Colour. And he didn't say Grey, he said White. Because the wax seal of Winterfell is white. It has absolutely nothing to do with house colours, it indicates where the letter was sent from, not which house. If you're in Winterfell, your letters get sent with White wax as the seal. It doesn't matter if you're from Dorne, that's just the colour that is available.
Preston doesn’t do visual humor like this anymore and I miss it, but he is currently overseeing the writing of an edition of Winds of Winter. Never thought he would come this far much love to Preston
It has been said already, but I have my own two cents about the colour of the wax.
Why wouldn't Ramsay use pink wax? Yes, through his marriage to fake Arya aka Jeyne Poole, he has a claim for Winterfell - that does not make him a Stark. I don't think the men would change their last name, and hence Ramsay would still be Lord Bolton of Winterfell.
Confusing, I know, seeing as Roose is also Lord Bolton of the Dreadfort. But usually Ramsay, as the son of the lord, would be reserved to be lord of the Dreadfort after Roose's death, so there would be no problem. But because Ramsay is still a Bolton, and not a Stark, his wax should logically remain the Bolton pink, not the Stark white/grey.
All of Ramsey's letters have his seal on them. Only a fake letter would appear without that seal. Unless you have a better theory as to why Ramsey Bolton would suddenly NOT have an overwhelming urge to prove himself legitimate..
Pink is the Dreadforts colour wax not the Bolton's colour wax. Winterfell has white coloured wax. It does not strictly denote house. If a Dornish man was in Winterfell, his letter would be sent with white wax, because you don't cart wax around. You just stamp whatever colour wax is avaliable with your seal. So there is no reason why Winterfell would've been restocked with Pink Wax. It's designed only to denote the city from which it's being sent, not the house.
I don't know on this. The most convincing argument for me on "Who Wrote the Pink Letter?" was that Asha wrote it, as she's the only person who would have the access and means to get every piece of information in it.
Ooo I Like This, What Piece Of Info Would She Have Superior Access To Over Ramsey?
Tyler Haycraft
We have to keep in mind Ramsay should have no idea who Mance Rayder is for starters. Also, the biggest piece of evidence that Ramsay didn't write the letter is that the word "bastard" is used multiple times, and Ramsay, being a bastard himself, HATES the word and would torture/execute people for saying it around him. Asha has access to everything that happened at the wall via Stannis' men, and Stannis himself due to being their prisoner, she has access to every piece of info that happened at Winterfell via Theon, has seen stuff Ramsay has written, and would have used pink wax as that would be what was available to her.
Asha also has to guess that Ned Stark's bastard (Jon Snow) would likely be honourable enough to spare Theon and possibly allow him to live, and she needs Theon to challenge the Kingsmoot that Euron Greyjoy (The Crow's Eye) won on the Iron Islands. Also, she knows Jon is the only person close enough proximity-wise that would have anything close to a decent-sized force and deliberately words the letter to upset him and increase the odds of him coming south of the wall. We also have to take into account in the Winds of Winter preview chapter of Theon's he thinks to himself how he has to "tell [Asha] everything" and mentions Mance and the "washerwomen who weren't really washerwomen".
There is also Stannis and Asha talking and Asha convincing Stannis to at least behead Theon like Ned Stark would, as Stannis says Theon needs to die for him to have Northern support, and she's desperate for Theon not to die for the reasons above.
SpanishFly120
- Ramsey Would Totally Call Jon A Bastard Since He Is Now A "Legit" Bolton. A Derisive Sting Is Right In Ramsey's WheelHouse
But I See, If I'm Not Mistaken. You Are Banking On Asha Putting All Of Her Stock In Jon Accepting & Harboring Love For Theon, and Saving Him As Opposed To Proctoring His Execution. I Think That Could Go Either Way, Jon Has Many Reasons To Loath Theon Entirely. So The Fact That'd She'd Call On Him To Be His Savior Is A Stretch, But She Is Desperate And Not Unlikely To Pull Out All The Stops To Try And Save Her Brother & Morevoer Her People (GreyJoys) From Her Crazy (Crazy Awesome) Uncle. I Think Mance Makes More Sense As The Letter's Author, But I Like This As An Alternative Theory. aSoIaF Seldom Ends Up At The Most Logical/Expected Conclusion. . .
Tyler Haycraft
Well, I'm also partly taking into account how undermanned the Night's Watch is at this point (though the Wildling additions help numerically), so she would likely assume that at the worst, Theon would be permitted to take the Black and join the Night's Watch as once one does that, while they are there for life, all past deeds are forgotten/forgiven. Some people who believe in the R+L=J theory, even point this out as part of the reason that Ned waits until Jon is heading to the Night's Watch to say that "the next time I see you, I'll tell you about your mother", because at that point, he'd be a member of the Night's Watch, and King Robert would be unable to go after him since any claim he'd have would be totally gone. So, it's not unreasonable (at least...I don't think so), for Asha to think that Jon, being the Lord Commander, would allow Theon to take the Black, and Stannis would be unable to do anything about it due to well, that being the law.
SpanishFly120 Stannis wrote this letter its not hard to see no way mance had the time to write it hes being chased down hunted his ladies are killed when can he sit down write this find a raven that goes to castle black and send the letter not gonna happen
Stannis wrote the letter. He captured the Maester of the Dreadfort with two ravens & pink wax, he doesn't mean for Jon to give into the demands and actually bring those people, it's meant to piss him off & make him march to Winterfel with an extra army since Jon refused his offer before. Another piece to the puzzle is the pink wax is only smeared on, without a stamp. Ramsey would have used either the Bolton or the Stark seal. If Mance sent it (from inside Winterfel) he would have been able to get a seal more easily than Stan would have. What real reason would Mance have to send this letter? Especially with the demands listed?
Stannis Doesnt deceive though.
Hmmm regarding the colour of the wax, I think it's the opposite of what you say. It's not that the Boltons should now use grey wax, but rather that the current Lord of Winterfell is Bolton, and the Boltons use pink wax regardless of where they are. And the heads on spikes... well, he could have done that after flaying them. The difference in Ramsay's handwriting... not really a difference, it's just that Jon doesn't think about how it looks. I don't know, I think it's very possible that Ramsay wrote it. But great video - even if we don't see eye to eye on this. And btw, love your review of S05E02!
I was reading that part, and I was wondering why was there no mention of the handwriting, did I miss it, is my translation of the book lacking some details? Nah, it turns out Preston Jacobs is a liar xD
I miss these old videos. The weird humour it's great.
Regardless of whoever physically wrote the letter I think the likeliest architect is Wyman Manderly working in concert with Mance and the Umbers. Manderly is the only one with all the information in the letter, along with the means and motivation to send it.
- He is most definitely at the centre of some big scheme(s), his behaviour and the actions of Mance's Spearwives at Winterfell is obviously meant to agitate the Freys and the Boltons into making a forced error
- He knows the situation at the Wall and Stannis' forces because of Davos
- He knows "Arya" is fake, but he needs Rickon as a legitimacy trump card
- He arrived at Winterfell without a singer, giving Mance an "in"
- He knows enough about Ramsey while still managing to get the finer details incorrect
- He knows "Arya" and Theon escaped, but doesn't know where they ended up as Mors Umber is seemingly killed as per Asha Fragment
- He likely knows the contents of Robb's Will and possibly has a physical copy, this creates common cause and unity among Northern houses........The North Remembers
- The impetus for the letter is that he and the other Northerners have received news that Davos has found Rickon and they are now ready to move against the Boltons, they need Jon to vouch for Rickon's identity as Jon is Rickon's only relative who's location and status are widely known
It was melisandre. She was obsessed with him at first glance, he already has a "sword of fire", valyrian steel. She knows he isn't the bastard of Ned stark but actually his nephew, born of his sister and rhaegar targaryen, making him a prince. Melisandre is looking for "the PRINCE that was promised" not a king. Stannis was crowned king and his sword was just a trick. Melisandre has put this together and tried to tempt Jon away from the Knights watch by having Stannis offer Jon the Stark name and with it Winterfell. When Jon refused because of his oath, service until DEATH, she plants the letter stays behind and watches as he is murdered. She is going to resurrect him and he will be the hero needed to stand against the white walkers. Free of his oath he will join his aunt, Daenerys, and either ride one of her dragons or, and this is just a possibility... Find Aegon's egg. The old maester... Who was given a dragon egg as a child and with his dying breath whisper's "egg".
Holy shit......
I bend the knee to this theory
I agree with everything but the last part.
Maester Aemon (with M) whispers "egg" when he dies because he remembers his brother Aegon, and how he counseilled him for being the king. Egg was a nickname for Aegon. Or at least that's what I caught
You're right. I was mistaken, I do hope that he had an egg though... There are four characters that I want to be dragon riders... Of course GRRM will probably kill half of them in the next book.
"Eat & be reborn as Azor Ahai!"Was that really how that book ended. Wow, I really need to read Green Eggs & Ham again.
"Hold on I dropped a contact" HAHAHAHA :D
4:15
Another thing I found interesting is that Ramsay signs it “Ramsay Bolton, Trueborn lord of Winterfell”. In the past he’s always titled himself lord of the Hornwood and heir to the Dreadfort. You could say that his claim over Winterfell makes this redundant, but I just think it’s interesting that he didn’t include all his titles.
Pretty weak argument with several holes in it. It's almost certainly not Mance. The wax is for the house, not the castle. The wax thing is completely nonsense. The handwriting is why it's not Ramsay, yes, but it doesn't make it any particular person's.
Regardless, Stannis knows about the " He wants his bride back. He wants his Reek." statement. Stannis has Maester Tybald of the Dreadfort, so he has pink wax. He has ravens that can find Castle Black. He wants Jon to come to Winterfel and take the castle for him. etc etc etc
It's Stannis.
Exactly, I just dont see it being mance.
I can't remember but did stannis know about Mance still being alive?
Brian McGowan I think he did ? Especially if Arya/Theon told him about how spearwives helped them escape because Stannis have both of them
I've allways thought that stannis wrote the pink letter
It's certainly possible. He, Mance and Theon and the three people with all of the information contained in it.
It's very possible, I personally agree that he is responsible for the letter, since he refers to Val as the wildling princess and he knows about reek, in the WoW chapters he questions Theon, even goes as far as to tell one of his knight, Massey i believe, that there might be rumors of him being dead when he dispatched him with the bravosi banker.
He seems like the least likely person to write the letter. It's totally out of character for Stannis to write with so much passion. Also it makes so little sense. Why would he make threats to Jon when he just left Jon? Why not just take what he wanted from Jon and then go off to war? Because there's nothing he wanted from Jon that he didn't already seek when he was at the Wall. Also he already has Reek, no reason to ask for him. Stannis isn't a man of threats. He goes after what he wants.
It is Stannis it's obvious
+Preston Jacobs it's very possible millesandre also could be a possibility of writing it bcuz she needed him to die which she knew would happen once his black brothers found out he was going to break his vows by going to winterfell and saw the "many knifes in the dark" and knew this meant Jon would be killed by his own men and then she needed him to be rebirn as Azora Ahai
I always thought Wyman sent the letter just in case Davos couldn't find Rickon, he'd still want someone in Winterfell that had blood of a Stark
It's the Wrong Torture, Gromit! It's... gone wrong!"
coming back to listen to these, Preston's audio quality has improved so much lmfao
I've never thought Jon broke his vows by saying he was going to kill Ramsay. If he's been directly threatened by Ramsay, as he believes, it's the realm attacking him despite Night's Watch neutrality.
Not that I'm saying Ramsay wrote the letter, of course.
How would Mance even know about "Reek?"
Everyone in Winterfell knew about Reek. That's what the guards called him.
But how would he know of Reek's connection to ramsay or that he escaped?
***** pretty sure that wouldnt be hard to find out considering everyone would be all "did you hear that reek jumped from the wall?!"
***** Also Abel is Mance, so he would have been around Reek/Theon throughout the wedding at winterfell
They escaped together I think... its implied in the book
Your theory is intriguing, but I found it quite annoying you present things as facts when they actualy aren't. None of the 6 charicharistic attributes for ramsay that you gave as example are good examples
1) Ramsay is a Bolton confirmed by Roose, therefor his wax should be pink NOT white at any case or form. You use the wax according to your house, not according to the castle you rule at/ currently at. Many lords rule many castles, they never change wax, the wax is a permament signature no matter which castle you are at.
2-3) handwriting/ writing styles can change according to the mood. Handwriting less so, but It may very well be that it is not Ramsay himself who wrote the letter, since he is now a lord a maester should write his words in his name which definetly explains it. Writing styles vary much according to your mood and who you are writing to.
4-5) Skin attached? blood? you really think every letter Ramsay ever sent has skin attached and is written in blood? lol. 4-5 are ridiculous points you made up.
6) its not against their colture to mount heads on spikes. They can do it just as much as any other lords. They can easily flay bodies without the heads, they don't hae a strict code of how to torture their prisoners. When keeping the head skin of other lords intact is more valueable than flaying them for fun then they will keep the head skin intact.
I know im being critic, let me soften it up by saying you got an interesting theory overall. Its just not a strong one as you present it to be. Sorry for the egnlish, not my native.
My thoughts regarding the wax:
Ramsey's marriage to fake Arya gives him a claim on Winterfell through the Starks, hence white/grey wax. The use of pink wax would be reserved for Roose as the head of the Bolton family. Ramsey's Winterfell claim would take precedence over being Roose's heir.
Troy Keenan Sorry but that is not how it works there are some strict rules about this. In the case when a noble man is marrying a noble woman their succesion goes through the husband's house. Since the color of the wax in house Bolton is pink Ramsay uses the pink wax regardless to which castle he is holding or his wife's house. Roose bolton doesn't hold any rights to the pink wax as head of the house, every noble housemember can and should use pink wax when writing a formal letter.
Edit: Btw this is true anywhere except in Dorne where succesion differs, I could explain you Dornish laws and succesion aswell... But yeah Dorne has nothing to do with this northern instance. (I graduated from the citadel)
ShaggyLunchCake The text says the wax color is for the location, which makes sense considering ravens and maesters are for a location. Plus, since some families have more than one location (i.e. Lannisters with Lannisport and Casterly Rock), you can't have color for family. I imagine the seal is for the family.
Preston Jacobs
Sure you can have a color for family. THERE IS a color for each highborn family and every highborn uses it in his letters. You really expect EACH member to have a different wax color or for it to be dynamic consiidering the location? what sense does it make? none, just mindless confusion. You sign the letter with wax colored fitting to your house and seal it with the shape of your house. It's a complete undebateable fact. I'll use your example just to show: Lannisters of lannisport are a DIFFERENT family branch of the Lannisters and guess what, yes they also share the colored red sealed wax with a shape of a lion just as the more highborn Lannister branch. Also, what text? where is that "text says" you mentioned? Can you please show me?
Edit: I'll be fair with you Preston and tell you 2 occasions where the wax can change. 1) If you join the Night's watch / King's guard. Then you give up your former titles and succesion for defending the wall/king. You'd seal you letters with black/white wax.
2) if you are a male that married matrilineal marriage or if you are a married women to a husband of a different house and change the wax in that regarding your groom's house.
Both of these occasions have nothing to do with Ramsay.
also: I get your point with the ravens but we are yet to discover how ravens really find their way, I imagine it has nothing to do with the wax.
ShaggyLunchCake Go to 1:43 in the video. Jon VI, ADwD. "Only the Dreadfort uses pink sealing wax."
Ok perhaps someone could help me understand this theory better. So Mance evades Bolton's men, writes a letter and seals it with Ramsay's seal. Goes to the rookery sends the letter to Winterfell. Evades Bolton's men again, makes his way into the Starks tombs, finds the horn of winter. Escapes Winterfell and is now secretly making his way back to the Wall to rendezvous with Tormund and the rest of the wildlings to attack the wall, then to go back into the wild to raise the sleeping greenseers with the horn. Then he will go south and find Sam and Gilly who have his son, take him back and then fight (whoever wins) Stannis or the Boltons, then the White Walkers and then whoever sits the Iron Throne. Did I miss anything?
Gaius Scipio Yes, he sends the letter to Castle Black, not Winterfell.
I don't remember any Gaius Scipio though, so who's the guy in your avatar?
Juan Pablo Mina
Thanks for the correction.
The guy in the photo? Why that would be me.
Gaius Scipio So you're a stone man? It makes sense that they want to know what's going on elsewhere in Planetos.
Juan Pablo Mina
I'm a man of stone
I cant see how Stannis' host could last for 7 days. They were frozen, starved and had little to no morale
Flaming sword?
SWAG POLICE It's not gonna warm an entire camp :P
does the wall send them provisional food supply or something because king stannis has left his red-priestess and family on the wall with guardsmen, stannis has theon and mountain clansmen supporting him around?
The combination of your “schemes of the halfhand” and “killing Bran” videos, led me to believe Mance wrote the pink letter!
Roose is trying to push Winterfell on Ramsey in order to placate the Freys over the Dreadfort inheritance. For Ramsey to accept Winterfell equates surrendering his claim to Dreadfort in favor of Walda Frey's children (which he will never do). Even in his wedding, Ramsey called himself Lord of Hornwood and heir to Dreadfort (he never mentions Winterfell). He didn't want to have the wedding at Winterfell since he wanted the pleasure of leaving it to waste eternally (a twisted secret memorial to himself). Not only do I think the letter is from Ramsey but I also think the author establishes that Mance and Jon Snow are no match to the level of cunning depravity that Ramsey displays. I think he is being set up as this unstoppable force to be confronted by an unmovable object. I'm hoping for it to be the real Arya but I think is going to be Bran. He has the responsibility of reclaiming Winterfell after losing it to Theon.
Except Arya is the Lord of Winterfell (according to Robb Stark)
na i dont think the boltons wrote that letter for one simple reason it literally looks like that is what GRRM wants us to believe i mean its the same thing he is doing with the tower of joy mystery he shows almost an overwhelming amount of evidence that points to one thing which in the end may be truth but it wont be the whole truth so in the end ye the boltons might have had something to do with that letter but i also feel that there is something bigger moving in the darkness
P DDerek No Robb named Jon lord of winterfell in a letter he wrote before the red wedding
***** no GRRM stated himself that all that has been revealed about the tower of joy was only thru a dream that Ned had and that was a fever dream so it is all distored
***** "in this world only winter is certain"
Absolutely love your analysis on things! I may not always agree, but I think your take on things is refreshing and eye-opening!
best game of thrones commentary on the net. even if it gets a little crazy conspiracy sometimes.
one thing I think one thing that needs to be said. John was not rely firsakeing his vows to go take winter fell. he had to take it, the will have the whites at the wall, he needed the army that could be won at einterfel, and the north together again to face the threat. a risky move, but one that had to be made.
This series is awesome, but after listening to your new stuff I can tell how much you and your channel have grown. Still appreciate the great work.
Another note: Mance refers to Jon as Bastard, since that was how Jon had originally convinced him to let him join the wildings.
I managed to run in to George a few days ago and had a drink with him and managed to weasel some things out of him:
1.Ramsey did send the letter, there is no trick... however the Boltons have an inside man at the watch (possibly Bowen Marsh?)
2.Not all the contents of the letter are true. Eg: Stannis is clearly not dead.
3.Jon isnt dead. He isnt resurrected or anything he merely survives his wounds because as he passes out he is rescued by the wildlings and other members of the watch who remained loyal to him. He is under melisandre's protection hence Stannis' knights and the rest of the watch cant harm him as this would be disobeying King Stannis' orders.
4. Danearys wont reach westeros until the last book.
5. if Roose dies, he will be killed by somebody he is personally wronged. (Theon? Stonehart?)
6. Benjen Stark is not Coldhands it is Stonesnake one of Qhorin Halfands ranging party members that went missing when Jon and Qhorin were captured by the wildlings in ACOK. Benjen has not been ruled out as dead by George yet.
And finally Rickon is alive and well and is returning to Winterfell with Davos in the next book. However some question his legitimacy.
Omg what I'm going to watch all your videos now. I'm the type of person who forget half the book minutes after finishing it so it'll definitely help me get things that I missed.
Pink is the color of the Boltons, why wouldn't Ramsay use it?
One thing I don't agree with you on in this theory is your reasoning with the white wax. It's not like a house changes their colors just because they conquered a new castle. The rest of the theory is very well thought out and I agree with.
The letter is most likely written by Ramsey. The wax is right out. White is for House Stark. Pink is for House Bolton. As for the handwriting, it is possible that Ramsey was dictating to a Maester. The importance of Mance being the only named person in the letter is to prove to Snow that he found ad tortured his spy. Heads were put on spikes as to be on display. Decapitation doesn't mean the bodies weren't flayed. Also, The spearwives that were with Jeyne and Theon were all killed by Bolton men. The only purpose in flaying corpses would be for psychological warfare, so making a pelt for Mance out of the spearwives would be a form of torture in itself. The letter mentions destroying Stannis army to instill despair in John Snow, to help leverage safe return of his bride and his reek.
Book and show totally different letters. Makes sense for it to be Mance in the book and lack of creativity from D&D to be Ramsey or little finger in the show
+Anthony Salpino Also, Mance is dead in the show.
My quest for listening to Preston as I fall asleep has lead me back to the beginning of it all. Thanks for all the perfect thought provoking night time whispers Papa Jacobs
Happy Ten Year Anniversary to this video!
The Stannis chapters, definitely indicate he was not defeated by Bolton. But the punishment theory was not entirely correct, the letter says that the spearwives WERE flayed and their skins were given to the captive Mance as a 'coat' and so they must have been beheaded afterwards. This letter was probably written on intel received from the Karstark traitors (who have banded-infiltrated Stannis' ranks) to most likely to draw Jon out because he is the last apparent threat (with a claim greater than the Boltons) to Winterfell. Doubtless it would seem Ramsay did write it or had someone do it for him on his behalf. The lack of a 'skin attachment' with the letter probably means that Mance and the wives escaped and are not captive or he simply just didn't give one.
People are forgetting that before mance became king beyond the wall he was a member of the night's watch, and that means that he must have come from somewhere in the seven kingdoms and also he is portrayed as a very cunning and knowledegable man. Don't you think he must have known something about house bolton and their infamous flaying? ( because it is a prominent house in the north and also they were enemies of the starks in the past) and would've mentioned flaying as a threat Jon.
I love how you do the character voices. I wish I had you to read me fairy tales every night ;)
They probably listened to the audiobooks not read it... Because I missed so much when i just listened.
As someone who read the book series after watching the first 7 seasons of the show, the Pink Letter was such a tantalizing and pleasant surprise to close the books- something completely different from the show that suggests a totally different direction for the plot from the show. God I loved that moment.
STANNIS WROTE THE PINK LETTER!!! That's what i think, anyway. In TWoW Theon chapter, Stannis sends Ser Justin Massey to the Wall to drop off fake Arya before heading to Braavos to collect the Kings loan from the Iron Bank. He also tells him that he might hear word of his death and it might even be true, but to head to Braavos anyway to buy his sellswords. The reason I say Stannis wrote the letter is becuz A.) When Massey actually makes it to the Wall, he WILL hear of Jon's Snow's death, but more so, he will hear of the Pink Letter which states that Stannis is dead, but we all know from this chapter that Stannis is NOT dead. So this will be Massey hearing of his Kings death even, though, it's not true. And B.) In that same Theon chapter, Stannis figures out that the Dreadfort's maester came with Lord Arnolf and the rest of the Karstark army when they joined Stannis' host. That it was this same maester - by the name of Tybald - that admitted to Stannis, when confronted, that he was the one who sent a raven to Lord Roose informing him of Stannis' location. To get to my point, the fact that this happened means that Stannis now has (you could surmise) the wax seal of the Dreadfort and of Winterfell - thats where the raven flew the map it was given - meaning that Stannis could forge the Pink Letter and make it look as authentic as need be......food for thought. Would love to hear thoughts on this.
Can I also mention that "7 days of battle" seems somewhat unrealistic for two large hosts? Whilst Wildling clashes probably consist of a lot of skirmishing and stuff, so it makes sense they take 7 whole days to complete.
And Stannis' army was not likely to survive 7 days, even without any battle going on.
It was little finger
Of fucking course XD
+Alicia Guzzy yup
Ser Pounce wrote it.
Bane?
the butler did it. the butler always did it.
I think this a very interesting thoery, I never thought Ramsay wrote the letter but I didn't have enough reasons to guess who it could've been. While most of what you say is up for debate (as all the comments below prove), I think the strongest evidence is the Black Crows reference. I absolutely agree with you, because throughout the whole books they make a point that only the wildlings call the Night Watch that. The same way they make the point that only they call themselves the Free Folk. So, a regular westerosi wouldn't use those terms...
While Mance was born north of the Wall, he we was raised by and to be a man of the Night's Watch. That'd probably make him less of an expert on the ways of the Seven Kingdoms than most, but not someone who'd never know how things generally worked there. Let's just say he knows more than the average Wildling how to fit in south of the Wall. Like in Winterfell as a bard!
Why would Ramsey use white wax just because he's at Winterfell? That's the seal of house Stark, not the castle Winterfell. Ned sealed everything with white wax and the Direwolf seal while he was hand and in King's Landing.
But that was the point of whole wedding. Nobody wanted Bolton to rule north but by showing everyone that his son married Eddard's daughter people will become more eager to accept this. So Ramsay better act like he is a part of Stark family now...
I always thought there was something weird about that letter. Thanks for the vid subbed
I totally Thought It Was Mance From Language Ques, But There Was Literally So Much I Was Over Looking & Just Plain Not Understanding. Awesome Video!!!
I think it's Stannis. Luring Jon out would make him a deserter of the Night's Watch and having him come to Winterfell, Stannis could absolve and legitimize him and have a Stark in Winterfell in a matter of seconds. Most of the North hates the Boltons but stays with them and that could be the straw that brings them into Stannis' fold
The names in the letter are from mances. Cos if he was in a cage, that boy would sing the names with each bit of skin removed.
The heads on the wall are from frays, and the double cross, battle of ice.
Jon is awesome at seeing details!!! And he has seen his hand writing before, so if Jon believes it, then it is real.
Very interesting, I only disagree with the color of wax. White and gray is the color of house stark, pink and red are the colors of Boltons, the wax can only be white of it belongs to the starks.
Not going to lie, I read the words on the right hand side at 4:59 as "As High As Hodor" rather than "As High as Honour" which to be fair are much cooler words... needless to say I cannot House Arryn seriously anymore!
Hmm interesting take I have to watch the other videos but I think its just as likely that Melisandra wrote the letter. I am speculating but if Jon Snow is Azor Ahai one of the prerequisites is rebirth. As she is now having doubts that Stannis is Azor Ahai due to her vision pointing in Jon Snows direction. She cant very well kill Jon herself but his reaction to the letter may very well force those of the watch to kill him for abandoning his oath. She then resurrect him as Azor Ahai reborn.
The theory of it being mance who wrote the letter is plausible, but the facts you stated are not inspiring. My personal theory is that it was Wayman manderly. I believe he is egging on Jon to attack winterfell because it is ripe for the taking from the north. The last we hear about winterfell is hosteen frey attacks manderly, and roose resolves this by saying they will go after stannis (who is south) by sending the freys first. This will mean one of the largest and most loyal to the boltons army will not be around to defend winterfell from an attack from north. Also since davos was in white harbor before, i believe manderly would have information about stannis and what was going on at the wall. A small, insignificant hint at it being Wayman Manderly who wrote the letter is, that he described the battle as being seven days. If we are to assume there wasn't a battle at all, we know the Manderly's hold the seven far more sacred than anyone else in the north, and we know how Manderly is prone to mummer's farces.
We all know that Stannis is alive, so it definitely wasn't Ramsay(Who would want to fight 2 armies?). It could be LF though I don't really see the benefit he gets from it. In my opinion, it was Melisandre or someone else close to Stannis. The pink letter was their way of asking for reinforcements. Stannis himself wouldn't have sent the letter as it's very dishonest and dishonourable.
Sam Lemke How do you know that stannis is alive? Is it from the sample chapters from WoW?
Miguel Arellano GRRM said so himself.
Some of your points are SOOOOOOO shaky.
The pink wax is used because its a BOLTON colour, not because of the dreadfort; that's just where the Bolton's resided.
Blood dries brown, so it could have been blood anyway, but there's no reason to believe that Ramsey writes exclusively in blood... or that you get skin for that matter.
He does mention flaying, and the heads of those he claims to have killed were probably killed in battle. i.e. no time or reason to flay.
And flaying isn't what they do. Roose talks of distancing the house from those practices, and he's at Winterfell. Flaying is Ramsey's thing.
Also, Ramsey is loyal to the throne, so he would care if the nights watch is harboring a contender to the crown or his family/associates.
And he's care about the wildlings because (on Jon's orders) 7 of them went to steal the woman who's hand in marriage would secure Winterfell for the Boltons.
And obviously he'd wants Reek. Just duh.
I'm gonna watch part two to see if you sway me but i didn't see anything compelling there.
Feel free to convince me otherwise people!
@Hussein Fakhro 9 Gustavslundsskolan but what if theon escaped?
@@joshuariosa5756 He didn't. We know this because GRRM has released some chapters from Winds of Winter, including one for Theon, and all we know for sure at this point is that Stannis has Theon, Theon is no longer "Reek" because the Weirwood tree told him he is Theon, and Stannis wants to sacrifice him to the Lord of Light, but his sister is trying to talk him into beheading him in the way of Ned Stark. But this has not happened yet by the end of the last book, when Jon is murdered, so far as we know.
Whatever happens to Theon from here on out, Stannis ain't letting that boy out of his sight. Theon is a prince and therefore has that ohso precious "Kings blood". As far as Stannis is concerned, he's due for a roasting.
At this point, Mance is still the best guess for being the author of the pink letter.
@@SolaGratia. okay i forgot about that kings blood. And i still have to read that twow chapter. Thanks!
It would be absolutely amazing if you remade this video, it's so good but you can tell its one of your firsts by the audio and tempo. Love your videos!
It's an interesting hypothesis, to say the least. I must have missed some of the details in ADwD. Good stuff.
There was one instance in the books where the brothers of the nightwatch are referred to as crows, when getting Arya out of Kings Landing and the subsequent events, Yoren calls himself a "wandering crow" which when mentioned, he was called this by others as he was to collect men for the nights watch. Other than this your points are good, and intriguing.
9:34 well in clash of kings, chapter 14(Arya IV) Amory Lorch says to Yoren "The crow gives us his word" when they talk at the holdfast
One piece of evidence for why it couldn't have been Mance who wrote the Pink Letter; the author asks for the 'wildling babe' to be brought to Winterfell, but Mance knew that Jon had switched his baby son with Gilly's baby son. If Mance knows that his baby son is actually in Oldtown, why would he ask for him to be returned from Castle Black to Winterfell? It makes no sense. My personal theory is that the letter was written by Theon on instruction by Stannis.
Great theory. I'm calling it a "theory" since at the moment we don't have solid verification but either way it sounds solid from the points you've made.
The only thing that would stop me from thinking it was Mance is the fact that Reek is mentioned. How would Mance even know that Reek existed? Ramsay would be the only one who cared about him
Your theory would be plausible... Only if you didn't use the color of the wax as an argument. I read the chapter "The Wayward Bride", and the beginning of it reads:
Asha Greyjoy was seated in Galbart Glover's longhall drinking Galbart Glover's wine when Galbart Glover's maester brought the letter to her.
"My lady." The maester's voice was anxious, as it always was when he spoke to her. "A bird from Barrowton." He thrust the parchment at her as if he could not wait to be rid of it. It was tightly rolled and sealed with a button of hard PINK wax.
Barrowton. Asha tried to recall who ruled Barrowton. Some northern lord, no friend of mine. And that seal... the Boltons of the Dreadfort went into battle beneath pink banners spattered with little drops of blood. It only stood to reason that they would use pink sealing wax as well.
As for your statements in the comments that the color of the wax is based on position/place and NOT House, I can refer you to the same chapter, an instance where Ramsay, already legitimized, already styling himself The Lord Of Winterfell, uses pink wax. These following lines come a bit after the lines I typed in above:
"The Bastard of Bolton?" Asked Qarl, beside her.
"Ramsay Bolton, LORD OF WINTERFELL, he signs himself. But there are four other names as well."
I get the other arguments. The pink letter is fishy. The way it was worded wasn't very highborn-sounding, and I know Ramsay is a bastard but he always struck me as a sophisticated kind of crazy, not guttural, and rude and uneducated. The letter sounds like a really misguided/misinformed version of someone's take on Ramsay. Mance Rayder is also plausible... He is one of the three people who knows of the plan. However, scheming doesn't fit Mance's style. He's not a backstabber.
Wow. I really did read through these books too fast.
That's what I get for reading on my phone in class.
As soon as you pointed out that no names were used in the letter, I realized it had to be Mance. I always wondered how the Boltons could possibly know who Mance was, and how Mance, as the Lord of Bones, could casually sneak into Winterfell during high alert.
These videos rock. They have me pausing every few minutes to consider what you point out and crafting my theory, and then I compare it to yours. I didn't really want to waste my time re-reading the novels, but at this point I feel like I really should, except with greater detail.
It was Mance. I always wondered what the controversy was until I saw this video. Now I know there is no controversy. (Really liked part 1 of your new series though, Preston)
He would still use pink wax because even though he's the Lord of winterfell he's a Bolton. The flayed man is still they're sigil, they don't use the dire wolf of the Starks. They flayed man banner is on the walls of the castle now...
I'm here for your Melisandre voice all day.
dude ur a genius , i didnt put much tought in the letter at all, i just asumed it was legit ,and all the things u say do make sense
your wrong he brought up Reeks name as well. If it was Mance Rayder, how would he know of Reeks escape? Food for thought, but Mance was not the only name named in the Pink letter. Also just because they took over Winterfell doesn't mean they need to start sealing their wax in white or raise flags of dire wolfs. Their still Boltons their flag is a flayed man and their seal is Pink.
You were always the True king of The RUclips Iron Throne.
All Hail Preston, First of his name, King of the Nerds and the First Men.
Jon did not say he was going to desert to ride south. He was doing it as a reply to Ramsay's threat in the letter, all withing the legitimacy of his vows.
I'd disagree with the wax thing - white would be for House Stark not Winterfell, and as he's a Bolton, it would still be pink and I'd imagine that he'd relish using it considering his relatively recent legitimisation.
wow Preston looking back its impressive how much you have improved in your presentation and your speaking skills nice thing to just notice
I'm a big fan Preston, but Ellio Garcia and Linda from Westeros.org and cowriters of World of Ice and Fire just did a video defending the Ramsay as the author video, and in they point out that Amory Lorch does use the term "Crow" when addressing Yoren, they argue the term is used to derogatorily to refer to the Night's Watch even in the South. Any thoughts on that and their video in general?
Also, the wiki of ice and fire has some interesting arguments about Wyman Manderly being the author. Although their single argument against Mance is simply that things we're looking so good for him the last time we saw him.
It's pretty much confirmed at this point that Ramsay did not write this letter, since we know all of it is bullshit and Stannis is still alive. To me, the biggest indicator that it's Mance is the "crows" term.
Ramsay also doesn't really care about Jon that much, he has MUCH bigger problems to deal with. The one that has a bone to pick with Jon is Mance.
Men of the nights watch are also used to being called “black crows”. Someone from the nights watch could have easily used that term to piss Jon off.