YES! Who cares Music and your enjoyment is all the Counts. Love being Cheap most of this stuff is Overpriced Regardless of Salesmen Marketing Brainwash. Any AV Head will hunt down used Refurbished Thrift Black Friday Swap w friends. Joy in saving money to spend on Used Physical Media formats.
Agreed! I'm almost certain that I enjoy my records on my Fluance turntable through my Denon AV receiver and Jamo speakers more than many snobbier audiophiles enjoy their music.
I just like to get the best sound out of my existing setup for as long as possible until it breaks and no longer sounds good. I also like to buy for longevity and ease of use for the lowest $$ feasible. Been that way since 1979
I was in the "HiFi" sales business back in the 80's and 90's. I always tried to give my customers the best opportunity to get pleasure from their purchase. I always felt that any system was better than the clock radio they might be listening to. Pursuing the "nth" degree of audiophiledom is a fun hobby but not for everyone. If the system you have gives you pleasure and sounds good to you, you can enjoy the hobby. Keep up the good word.
After having been down that rabbit hole for a while, I can say especially in HiFi there is a lot of "different" sound, but it's very hard to define if there is actually one that's better than the other. To a certain degree of course you can easily tell that a speaker sounds better than a much cheaper alternative. But I'd say, within the 2,000 Dollar price range you get 90% of what you'll get if you spend 10k or even more. I've had the Wharfedale Lintons for a while and switched to Wharfedale Aura 2 a couple weeks ago. They cost 2k Euros (here in Germany) and they have that laid back british sound, but with more detail than the Lintons. It's the happiest I've been in a long time with a speaker. I wouldn't say they're better, because the Lintons simply do everything extremely well. More a matter of taste (sound- and designwise). Compared to other entertainment tech, speakers are really a matter of what you like and what you need. Other with TVs for example, because in most cases you can very clearly a good from a bad picture quality, an OLED from an LED, etc. And also, usually bigger is always better, if you're into movies. It's easy. Speakers are their own unique science.
@@Schlock3000 "Speakers are their own unique science." Very true. I wanted something efficient for my little triode amps so I bought a 40 year old pair of Lowther Acousta 115s for £300 off Ebay. I spent a further £550 replacing the drive units. Lowther still make something very similar for £7K. There's something I like about single driver horns despite the space they occupy.
You would be shocked that too many people believe treating a room and having a $500 system think it makes it sound like a $10000 system most belong to asr forum
Many of us don't have the luxury of a dedicated listening space and have to share rooms with our families who may not be thrilled with room treatment all over the walls. Course if you live in your basement with no friends or family and never see the light of day, room treatment is an awesome idea.😜
I got denon 4700h and mid range wharfedale speakers. Got as well svs sub for £600. And treated the living room with acustic panels. Plus got a lot of plants. I mean like real a lot of big bloody plants. Nice soft furniture. My system sounds so nice. I mean seriously lovely
@@jimfarrell4635 Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you spend thousands of cables, but you don't treat your listening space (whether you can't or not is irrelevant), then you're wasting your money on cables.
The REL subwoofer FB page is one of the most Toxic audio communities I’ve personally come across. I asked a simple question about my input on my 1205 mk2 subwoofers and all I got was: -My Anthem AVR sucks for music. -My room is atrocious and needs room treatment -My speakers are placed wrong -I shouldn’t put my AVR on top of my power amp. No one actually answer my question
@ The REL 1205 don’t have hi-level inputs. They have two low level inputs with one designated as lfe. My question was if there was a difference between the two low level inputs, I was curious if one had different filters or not.
@@CarlVanDoren61 The Rel FB community is full of themselves who mindlessly repeat dogma for sure :-) That said, my personal experience with a few Rel subs across a few systems is that it that the high level input was clearly better. I also preferred overlapping the subs with the mains, without using an active crossover. So your milage may vary, but a marketing strategy I would say no. FWIW John Hunter guidelines on setup are not BS, as he is known in the industry as a "setup master", from before his Rel days, where he developed something called the "Sumiko Master Speaker Setup Guide" (fancy words 😆). What is BS is the idea that you can simply apply the same rules to any room. I personally got the best results, when I used live sweeps in REW to position my dual subs.
I found the REL videos on the REL Acoustics channel helpful. I was very pleased with being able to tune, place and adjust the crossover of my REL Acoustics Tzero MKIII Subwoofer. Don't give up.
I’ve been an audiophile for 50 years. I started with a new Yamaha CR800 Receiver in 1974. The Speakers and Turntable from 1974 are long gone, but I recently got the CR800 out of the basement closet and it operates like new! I have recently paired it with a set of EMOTIVA XB2 speakers on sale for $399, a BluDento BLT-HD Bluetooth Audio Receiver for $80, and a Fluance RT82 Turntable for $299. So, for recently spending about $780, I’m back in business and am enjoying the hell out of it! Thanks, Randy for getting me back into audio after seeing one of your RUclips videos about a month or so ago.
And like wine, there is a lot of B.S. around it. People who claim that a wine is flinty, reminiscent of wet shoe leather, notes of hibiscus and elder flowers, etc, are likely full of crap. Much of the same non-specific language is used for audio as well.
When I got back into vinyl a couple years ago I fell for the "if you don't have this or that turntable, amp or speakers you're not going to be happy " well, I use a nearly 50nyear old technics sl-1800 paired with wharfedale 12.2 bookshelf speakers, yamaha a-s701 amp, schiit mani 2 pre and svs sb-1000 pro sub. Seems like it's good to me. Trying to keep up with the Jones will only create frustration. Buy what you like and sounds good to you, after all, you're the only one who's going to be listening to it anyway. No one really cares how much you spent on your 'audiophile " setup
@@bearded_wolverine3503 can't get back into vinyl. Hate flipping the disc over every 20 minutes or so, and turntables are finicky as hell in the real world.
I became an audiophile in the mid '60s. The word "audiophile" means "hi-fi enthusiast". For some reason, people today think it means having really deep pockets and spending enormous amounts of money. I personally have spent around $6,000 on gear over the last 60 years. That included a new Pioneer SX-1980 and Klipsch Cornwall speakers.
Good music & good recordings are different things. Plenty of music moves me but I wouldn't pretend it's well recorded or "audiophile". Of course the best experience is finding music that ticks both boxes.
The simple fact, is that "audiophiles" pay for exclusivity, and bragging rights. Handmade, limited availability isn't necessarily better... it just costs more. Lets be honest, most people can't hear any difference anyway... but still think they might gain something by paying more than they need to. For every sucker, there is a salesman waiting.
Most people don't have the luxury of building a dedicated room for HiFi listening. Plus they are extremely limited in speaker positioning (most have them less than 12" from the wall) . Room treatment is an option that most aren't willing or able to invest in. But... room correction is here to save the day with all of this. I find it bizarre and funny that most "audiophiles" don't take the time to measure and correct the bass modes in their room as it's cheap, pretty easy and makes huge differences that spending thousands on new equipment can't achieve.
I have a PC desktop setup in the corner of the room against a wall. I use a DSPeaker room correction unit and it sounds great. Press the "bypass" key and its shocking how bad it sounds uncorrected.
A huge problem is people being snarky keyboard warriors. We are all so impolite and impersonal to one another online that we forget that this is a passion that is supposed to drive positive feelings. However, it is that passion that drives us all to do deep dives, hundreds of hours of research, second guessing, and validating our choices and purchases against a subjective and ever changing experience. In a sense, most audiophiles are simply people that have been driven by their passion to complete their own neurotic battle to get the best experience we can, chasing that dragon. It IS exhausting, especially over time, and to see someone making "mistakes" we may have made long ago, it can be frustrating, and we want to save them time or money by offering our advice. But there is a massive lack of gentlemanly conversation, treating others with disrespect because we're all reduced to letters on a screen and not a physical body with thoughts and feelings. Which is kind of funny because this journey is all about the physics and physical nature of the experience.
I have been an audiophile for 50 years and....its all about the music lol. seriously, all the music I love, I first heard on a small transistor radio, powered by a battery and one small 3 inch speaker
My GF loves her music on her Android phone. I guess that makes her an Audiophile. I never thought about her like that before. PS, if that 3" speaker is a Fostex FE83, you could still qualify as Audiophile ;)
I have been an "audiophile" if that means using many audio components over the last 40 years from cheap to expensive, to enjoy music over the years, and I completely agree with this opinion.
I'm a Cerwin Vega fan so I'm obviously not an audiophile, but.. my listening area is 15 feet from my front channels out of necessity so most bookshelf speakers aren't gonna cut it. I hope the industry goes back to 12 and 15" 3-way speakers being the norm without having to get a bank loan to afford them.
The funny thing is that even so-called non-audiophile genres like metal have nuances that a non-listener might not necessarily pick up on. I have definitely found that not having speakers or headphones with decent enough definition such as thin phone or TV speakers kind of turns it to mush and it's harder to hear things like note definition and transient response. Metal is so much more than "angry music" for those of us who take the time to appreciate it. Love this series as always and I definitely hate the gatekeeping and arbitrary classifications the audiophile community can have.
I've been an audiophile for 50 years. I am constantly surprised by what kit still comes on the scene. Just buy something you like the sound of and can afford - but keep buying music (or stream something new, whatever your source preference). If you want a good place to start with your gear, do this: 1. Find a small music venue that presents music you like. 2. Go on an open mic night. Many of the artists are happy to talk to you. 3. Ask an artist you like what they listen to at home. Most are on a budget and spend their money *really* well.
I put my system together about two years ago. I am in my 50s and have tinnitus and a room with tile floors. Does it sound perfect? Maybe not to someone else, but it sounds pretty damn good to me. Aiyima A07 Amp $80 Aiyima T9 DAC $100 Elac B6.2 Debut 2 $300( on sale) 12 year old Blu Ray Player as a CD player (don't remember what I paid) My enjoyment of this cheap system: $$Priceless
The budget! Indeed, I think that's the most common blindspot for audiophiles: Simply forgetting that some people can't spend an endless amount on hi-fi. Of course, too many of these people have placed tens of thousand of dollars worth of equipment in totally untreated rooms. Thanks for taking these things up 👌🎶
To add to the "your music is garbage" reason is some will say the kind of music you listen to is wrong as well. It seems that if you don't listen to classical, jazz, or the live version of Hotel California, you're listening to the the wrong music.
@@paultomaszewski1964 There is an argument to be had about music you use to audition equipment. That said, don't audition equipment by playing classical or jazz if you never listen to it, pick well mastered songs in the genre you do listen to.
I am 178 years old and use a pair Klipsch K- horns connected to my Victrola for near field listening. If you do anything else, you’re woefully under under informed.
I transitioned into an audiophile in 1991, I identified as an audiophile ever since then, I got a audio advisor catalog, and I started working full time job, and using credit cards back then started buy audio components from then on
I've been an audiophile for uptingk years and the biggest bummer I have about this is getting older, my ear performance continues to deteriorate. I measured my hearing response at age 58, after I accidently demo a subwoofer at excessive loudness which caused hearing damage. Now my frequency response is 45hz - 14Khz. Before the accident I could hear those sweet violins at 17Khz, no more. I am hoping future NANO technology will be able to repair the cilia structures in my cochlea and bring back those missing frequencies.
I've been an audiophile for 40 years and I have learned more in the past couple of years than the previous 38! Audio has changed drastically from the original heyday of the 70's to today. I have a pair of $100 speakers bought a couple of years ago that challenge my high end speakers I bought in the late 70's for over $500 (in 70's dollars!). I used to chase accuracy, thinking that was the holy grail. I learned from Guttenberg and Resolve from The Headphone Show (just today!) that absolute accuracy is a myth. I can't wait to find out what I learn next! Great channel Randy.
I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music fan and Cheapaudioman helped me pick a sub $500 system that sounds better than anything I've owned before and better than some fairly expensive systems roommates had. Recent new addition: Philips CD player w digital out for $4. I recently moved 2 tables and opened up my small listening area, then hung some fleece blankets on shelves next to the speakers and it made a huge difference in soundstage width. Cost me $16. 😁
Many of the speakers I've tried, mostly cheap ones, sound great at the right volume in the right places in the right rooms, but then can't seem to be made to sound good in another room in any position at any volume. So I think the room and speaker placement, along with listening volume can make a huge difference in how good or bad a speaker sounds. The only thing I find that's relatively consistent is that the lowest end of the speaker offerings are usually much more sensitive to volume than higher, typically more expensive speakers. The good news isn't that expensive speakers sound better at a variety of volume levels. The good news is that even really inexpensive or trash picked speakers often sound great if you play then at just the right level.
I agree, and this is true for the amp as well I tend to like listening at lower levels, even while the family thinks it's too loud. I have tried different levels, measuring with a phone app (for what it's worth). Apparently I do listen at much lower levels than the RUclips channels reviews refer to. Why is 80-90 DB so important?
@pascalmartin1891 I'm with you. I actually listen at levels low enough that regular people think it's nice and soft, but that's only some of the time. I think the reason that such high listening levels are important to the industry is that those are the standard nominal levels for real orchestral instruments at like 1 meter away. It's really too loud for comfortable listening, and of course it really applies specifically to acoustic instruments designed in the era before electronic amplification. Trumpet, viola, timpany - those were made to fill a large hall where half of the people would be more than 12 meters away. The closest audience members in those settings are 3 meters away at least. But the db level at one meter is a reference that is used to create loudspeakers, even cheap ones. So it's interesting to know that often even very junky speakers played in their sweet spot volume range can sound remarkably good compared to the levels they more typically get played at.
Thanks for this. It always annoys me when someone posts their budget, asking for suggestions, and some jerk says "save up until you have XXX." I think it's fun to help people with a small budget get started with cheap used gear, and the beauty of it is, in today's market, if you make good choices you can get remarkably good sound for pretty darned cheap.
Hi Randy, You’re right on the money and I’ve been an audiophile for fifty years. I dislike audiophile snobs and those not willing to try and experiment with different equipment be it new, cheap or vintage to find the sound you like. At the end of the day it’s about enjoying the music and be happy with what you have.
My pet peeve is when someone says X wipes the flaw with Y or some similar hyperbolic statement. In the audio world this is seldomly true unless we are talking about something like a cell phone speaker vs a set of bookshelves. Even a McIntosh doesn't wipe the floor with those cheap $100 Class D amps.
Your absolutely right you don't need to spend an arm and a leg to achieve bliss and if you think you need to spend an arm and a leg then my friend your journey will never end.
I had a Dynaco Stereo 70, AR-3 speakers, Thorens TD124 with Shure's top cartridge. I went into a High end store to see what they had and was told everything I had was Junk ! The arrogance is a feature of HIGH END >
I’ve been a stereo owner and music lover for almost 50 years. And a retired electronics engineer for 32 years. I’m still figuring this crap out. But what I have recently learned is I’m done moving up and now getting simpler. My best equipment makes me listen to music I don’t love, just like. The music I love (classic rock) sounds just as good on my inexpensive system.
I agree totally and although I have finally compiled a more expensive system than your target audience I have realised a few things in the last 5 years of OCD levels of investigation before choosing to buy varios bits . 1) Just because a product claims varios advantages that does not meen you need them my $15 K approx. system is still running through nicol and dime Speaker cables. 2) Consider Linear power supplies even the most expensive are only a few hundred dollars and when I bought mine at a late stage in my investment I described it as the most notable single upgrade in my sound quality. 3) Although I have an expensive Balanced Tube Amp and have not in fact heard a Single Ended Tube Amp, there is a dedicated band of experienced Audiophiles that will swear that a single ended amp is the zenith of sound reproduction, and they are so technologically simple that they are potentially the cheapest amps available. My listening environment is so bad that in some ways it works in my favour where some people have 'First reflection Sound treatments' I have corridors. where sound studios panel the walls etc I have curtains or shelves and Furniture. One problem I fear I will never overcome is having to keep my Speakers closer to the wall than is recommended so I chose a set of Speakers that have a front ported base speaker.
I have been an audiophile for I do not want to write that number down years, and, I learn more every year. The key is there are many routes to audio nirvana and many preferences; just when I think I have it all figured out, something always surprises me. Enjoy the ride and the music.
I have just gotten myself a 32bit USB-C DAC for my Android phone collection of FLAC audio files. The quality of sound through my ten years old Audio Technica ATH-M50X is breathtakingly good - astonishing, in fact. The DAC cost me less than $20. I am thrilled to hear my music collection at a level of emotional engagement that I never even knew was possible. Oh, I’ve been an audiophile for over 45 years and happily admit I know nothing about anything other than what makes want to get up and sing and dance.
@@kodacres7820 when I first got into good sound in high school, all of my gear was from thrift stores, from relatives, or from yard sales. I had to pay for my books, lab fees, and any extracurricular events, our money was TIGHT. I also worked at least 10 hours a week from the age of 15 on.
In response to the criticism that pop music was insubstantial teenage fluff, Pete Townshend once said good popular music moves your head, your heart or your feet and that the best popular music moves all three.
I've been suffering from the FOMO syndrome since my first taste of HiFi as a teenager in the late 70's. Going bankrupt a year ago changed my desire to keep up with the Jones'. Sure I'd love a complete Emotiva system, but income dictates the wide line between needs and wants. So, if someone looks down their nose and tries to tell me that I have to get better gear to be in their league I give 'em a solid "okay buddy - thanks - bye". I am totally blessed to have hand-me-downs, open box, on sale and my dumpster diving fixed up gear to use for music and movies. The other even bigger blessing I have is the few friends that are also into affordable HiFi; rather they live nearby or far away to the South and Mid-West. You know who you are and I pray to Heaven above that I can return the favors 10x over. All the very best to everyone - enjoy the music!
Rock on, cheapaudioman. You provide quality content. Some of your work has benefitted my system. Although my system isn't like yours, I like it. That makes me lucky. I have known several audiophiles with more than 200k invested in their room and system who are perpetually unhappy with what they own. The designer Jeff Rowland used to speak about audio playback in terms of parts per thousand and parts per million. I think that is sometimes a useful way of looking at the issue.
The worst is the labeling, Trash, Garbage, this is BEST! And it plays into peoples wanting to belong. Screw that. Listen to what you like. Cause we both know that’s why Baskin Robbins sells more than vanilla😊Love you brother. Keep on pluggin
Great video Randy! The points you make are why Wiim has sold a boat load of Wiim Minis for $89. A great value oriented streamer that's best in class for the price point.
I love your take on room treatment. I have a good system but the listening space is also our living room and I can’t just make changes to the room for the purpose of dialing in the perfect arrangement of equipment.
I'm no audiophile, but I appreciate this list of "toxic traits"-I've come across every single one of them. That said, I do believe the room itself plays a huge role in sound quality. I listen to music in two different spaces: one is acoustically balanced with no echo, and the sound is fantastic. The other, however, is a literal glass house-a sunroom. While I still enjoy music there, the sound quality is objectively muddled and chaotic due to all the reflective surfaces. Then again, I'm not an audiophile, I won't let the bouncy sound spoil my day.
You’re so right! It took me more than 20 years to finally get to what is to me a kick butt, beautiful sounding system. Except for the Emotiva MR1,11.2 receiver, everything else was bought used one by one: Four Polk Audio Lsi 15, one Lsi C, and one Golden ear SuperSub X.
Good points all. I listen, watch tv, and pretty much live in the same room. I use a pre-amp (Emotiva XDA-3) that has a built in DAC because it does the job and sounds great. Is it the "Best". I doubt it but it makes me smile daily. I do like gear but I like music more. Keep up the good work Randy.
Great video. Been my stance since i was a kid. You don't need to be a millionaire to get great sound. Do your research, audition gear. Research companies, do they stand by their product? Is the product competently designed with good components? Does it have the specs and measurements that matter to you? Most importantly the reality is it only needs to sound good to YOU! And in that same breath, respect others opinions. No need to clash and butt heads over the hobby that brings us so much joy! Remember, it's about music and the way it makes us feel!
I really appreciated this video because forums and videos are FULL of “advice” that’s a real turn-off to newbies. Also, I LOVE my Fosi/SMSL/Topping etc equipment. I get to play with it and find out what I enjoy.
I’ve been an audiophile for 25 years, long enough to know the sound characteristics I want from my music (and to know to audition equipment by ear and not by paper measurement) but definitely not long enough to tell others that they are wrong about their choices (after all I do not have their ears).
Definitely about enjoying what you have and what you can afford. Last year I replaced a £450 amp with a £1600 amp that sounds a bit better, because I have a decent job and low outgoings and that's stuff that interests me. But about 40 years ago aged 14 I saved up pocket money and spent about £10 on some new empty ready made speaker cabinets, and some slightly smaller speakers sold cheap as clearance that I adapted to fit with a bit of plywood. I dared to open up my £50 Toshiba radio/cassette and solder in some speaker sockets. As I listened to the pop charts I'd recorded through my external speaker upgrade that little "hi-fi" was my pride and joy!
Pretentiousness, Eliteism, and plain speaking, Snobbery abounds in this hobby. There are a few humble influencers out there, but few and far between. Thank you for always providing me with solid perspectives and advice. I don't always agree, but when I have followed your advice, I have usually been very happy and satisfied. Take care, and all the very best, Sir.
The one thing that people don't realize is that room correction (EQ across the entire spectrum) makes the biggest difference and I didn't know that either. If you change 5 bands, the soundstage will change more than upgrading from a FOSI to 6 pieces of McIntosh separates and dropping $100k - seriously. What surprised me the most is the impact it had on spaciousness and soundstage - EQ literally opens and closes the room. It's shocking when you hear it. I have 2 presets on my Denon that have completely different curves and the difference is simply hard to explain. By extension, it also means the room makes the largest difference. A good room may sound incredible with the cheapest bluetooth speaker while a bad room will sound terrible with high-end gear.
Heard this myth so many times by people with cheap crappy systems whatever helps you cope with the bitterness and jealousy towards people who spend more on HiFi than you
The "Just save up..." used to be what I would do when I saw something I would like to get. I'd wait about a month to make sure I had the money, and usually by the time I'd go back to get said item - it was gone and not coming back in stock. That's the other downside of "waiting till I have enough".
Great list, enjoyed the video, thank you. Mine would be sometimes there are beliefs OUTSIDE of the performance of something that impact what we think and how we experience it. Nostalgia (vintage), brand bias, aesthetics and so on. For my specific example, ChiFi. It may outperform the components I would choose, or at least provide more value in a cost analysis, but due to my socio-economic beliefs I'd rather buy from a Geshelli or used Bryston etc. It's not always about what's on the paper or even what the ears hear, to be specific to this hobby, my journey and how I curate that journey will impact how that sounds when I sit on my couch in my untreated living room with a myriad of mix matched gear and it makes me smile. If one's journey doesn't include that socio-economic perspective, good for you, I hope you enjoy your experience nonetheless.
I've been collecting records (music) since I was a pre-teen. That said, with over 50 years of collecting, it has only been just recently I've started paying a lot of attention to audio equipment - Meaning specs other than price. And to add, it is b/c of channels like yours, I've gotten a great education on what is or isn't great recordings or great audio equipment. My point? I agree with you that the number of years thinking - time alone makes you an astute audiofile - is BS. Example: Just learned that the base of a record player is called a plinth. 😳 Or finding out the differences between moving magnet or coil. Thanks for my ever expanding enlightenment.
I’ve been an audiophile for 40 years and have only changed my system 3 times. I buy and enjoy the best I can afford. 2nd hand is a great way to get great gear.
The point of all of this is being able to listen to the best sound that you can put together. If you aren't listening to the music on the best that you are reasonably willing to afford, you aren't doing it right, so best to get started as soon as you can. We have Audiogon and Music Room and eBay etc, paying list price is for those with lots of spare cash and no patience to wait for sales or hunt for bargains. Last month I went looking for a deal on Kef R3 Metas on eBay and found a smokin' hot deal that originated from a local store so I went and picked them up. Not 'cheap', but nowhere close to list price either :)
I have been a music lover for over 50 years, and have been waiting, over 50 years to be able to afford becoming an audiophile. LOL. I know what you mean whenever I mention, my system is all fluance RT85 > PA10 > AI61 > DB10’s, I hear a lot of crap, toy, garbage, but you know what makes me happy.
I’ve owned a ton of equipment. I’ve never had a bad sounding system. Literally everything I’ve purchased has sounded good one way or the other. My favorite systems, the ones I have been the most satisfied with, were all generally cheaper ones.
Rule of thumb: upgrade when your music cost more than your gear. Also don't be seduced by solid aluminium billet amplifier fascias - or gorgeous veneers (at least beyond 'I have to live with this) and consider DIY. And active with DSP - because that way, you can tinker and play and try stuff, rather than be grumpy about trading up the whole time. It uses your time in an interesting and educational way, instead of wasting it on window shopping and just spending money.
I just hate it when people disquality tone control and loudness because it's not "pure" or "as the artist intended". There're cool functions, in some cases boost the enjoyment and correct some specific issues you might have. It's your system!
I recently picked up an immaculate pair of Yamaha NS-333 speakers on eBay for £25...its not about spending lots for me its about the thrill of searching and finding a used audio bargain, found some absolute gems over the years
One of the best days in my audio life was walking out of an audio store after scratching the itch of is more really that much better. My $500 Dac/Amp combo VS a piece of $5000 equipment. After a good listening session....nope. Very happy.
I wanted an audiophile system because I like listening to music as it was originally mastered. Perhaps there is still a little bragging when I can show off the clarity, staging and vocal range ... but in the end it still boils down to me wanting to enjoy my music as close to the original master as humanly possible.
Correct totally agree with you. It's about enjoying the music. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune on hifi. If you can spend little and get maximum enjoyment then it's win win. It's exactly the same as these audiophiles that say you should never use tone controls. You should listen to the music how you want to listen to the music. All this not as the artist intended is garbage
I'm not an "audiophile". However, I do appreciate nice gear that actually sounds good in my room. That being said, I still use a Denon (made in Japan) amp that I bought for my 30th birthday in 1991. I got it at HiFi Buys in Atlanta for $999 and it was the most expensive piece of gear I had ever bought. It still sounds good to me and it is heavy. I'm old school and to me heavy amps are good amps. One thing I am over is expensive home theater gear. I had some crazy expensive stuff in a dedicated home theater in my old house and that HT stuff becomes obsolete in a hurry. Especially the $9000 projector I had. Now, a 75" TV is just fine for me and I can replace it for a fraction of the money. One thing I do know from that room which was acoustically treated is rectangular rooms are better than square. Bass nodes are bad in square rooms.
Well ... ive listened to alot of different kinds of amps/speakers/headphones. Every time someone asks me about my opinion about smth they want to get im like "hold on, tell me your budget, tell me what kind of sound you like" and ill go ahead and do research and i end up saving them a buck with smth they are more happy with (if they dont know what kind of sound they like ill tell them more about the hardware and how it might sound). Sometimes i will even go ahead and tell them to visit a store to get a quick listen (if they have the time for that) Many HiFi stores allow you to go there, have a listen and they give you good advice. So i dont get why so many "audiophiles" say to just save up and get x. I have to thank a friend for giving me my first set of amps and cheap bookshelf speakers a few years ago for next to nothing. Btw ... There is no good and bad, only "I like it" and "i dont like it"
The amount of time someone has been an audiophile is irrelevant as our taste in music and equipment is subjective. Our budgets vary wildly as well. It's not my place to tell someone how much to spend and on what. Anyway, we all started somewhere. I started with a suitcase type mono record player in the 1970s long before I'd even heard the term audiophile. Great video and good advice.
You may like alternative Ulster album by stiff little fingers, northern Ireland punk band and still touring and still incredible live, especially for bass and energy Wasted life is incredible
I enjoy many kinds of music. Over the years I hope I've learned enough to put together an audio system that I can afford as well as enjoy. Largely, I think I've done OK in both departments.
There is an old saying or two, one is "If you say something is impossible...you are narrow-minded." 😂...I have been an Audio Appreciator, since I was 16...I could only afford a system till I was 30! I'm 75 and unfortunately have no system, but soon.
@cheapaudioman Very interesting topic. I slightly disagree on whether or not to wait to get a quality product. I agree that for many cost will be a factor. The one thing that frustrates me is the cheap quality of many things, including appliances. I'm beginning to think more closely of things that won't last longer, as I don't want to be on the treadmill of replacing everything every three to five years because nothing lasts. The channel helps though, because you listen listen listen to tons of feedback and reviews, and eventually there will be a theme of something worth purchasing. Thanks, this was very useful. 🙃
A lot of people who buy hi-fi gear only get these systems because they have space to fill in their rec rooms or living rooms. When guests or family members come over they don't want to feel inadequate without it. Few people buy systems as a hobby pursuit. Most of them don't know crap about the gear they own and couldn't care less.
I came here for a discussion of speaker cables, interconnect cables, speak cable stands, vibration dampers, and any other snake oil in the high-end HiFi world. Perhaos that is a different video...
@@km1234321 Not possible if they measure the same. It is all in your head. Cables can make a difference in ultra high frequencies (mhz range). Fancy expensive cables add nothing to the frequencies involved in audio production. A cable either works or it doesn't.
Well said, I agree 150% with everything you just said I will just add a little bit every hobby which I have a few loving listening to music is one of them, but every hobby has its gatekeepers has it snobs has it’s toxic corner where all the idiots hang out personally I sometimes look at them type of comments have a bit of a laugh. Don’t take it too seriously cause I think them people are beyond help there is no need and no excuse for toxicity and nastiness in any hobby. Good for you for speaking out and taking a bit of a stand.
Randy if you can ever swing it. You should set a room aside and do a real low budget treatment job. Do what Darko did but do DIY CHEAP Audio Man style. I love the deep dives Darko did on room treatment.
Yup - it's the same with most hobbies. I ride motorcycles and FFS there are people who still argue for drum brakes. Or - Oh it's watercooled - you suck. People do what they do. I stepped back into audio recently and have a small wireless system that, to me, sounds incredible - just incredible, I have every recording on earth at my fingertips, and it cost less than my last pair of speakers. Heck - in my studio I have a set of pioneer shelf speakers and boat amp that was a thing because of a defective triode or something, and it sounds sweet. Throw in a Wiim... What a world. The only argument I have is regarding poor recordings: Husker Du's Flip Your Wig - has someone remastered it for the sake of all that is holy.
All I need is a system with good clarity, detail, and transients, minimal sibilance, solid (but not boomy) bass, well defined midrange, high signal to noise ratio, good soundstage and focus, adequate power output, sounds good at low volume as well as loud. Other than that, I'm not real picky, and any old stuff will do.
The cool thing about Chinese manufacturing is that the barrier to entry for quality hifi is lower than it's ever been. I started with headphones much earlier, so my first proper (not AV recceiver) stereo amp was an Onkyo A-9010 at $350. Today that entry level amp would probably have been a $150 Fosi Audio/any of the hot cheap amps now - better still a pair of monoblocks for $200+. The speakers were Pioneer SP-BS22-LR and I think they were $150 a pair. Today there are plenty more options to choose from at around the same price, and likely better too. There's a price point for everyone and no one should be begrudged their choice or their budgets. But I disagree with the music part! My nostalgia powered music is the poorly recorded and mastered pop, rap and alternative of the late 80s and the 90s - plus the electronica of the 2000s. I don't quite enjoy listening to them as much anymore because I can't bear how terrible they sound. Thanks to the hobby, I have since learned to love new genres of music, jazz, all kinds of stuff that's well recorded, striking a good balance between critical listening and enjoyable tracks. Sure, I'll take those trips down memory lane from time to time but I'm an SQ forward audiophile and not afraid to admit it. You know, it's like the whisky hobby too - it's not about what other people say, it's about what you like. If you can only take your Laphroaig on the rocks, more power to you, as long as you enjoy it!😜
Some audiophiles are so busy with the components for the hifi system, they forget the main thing: Listening to music. They can't enjoy music.
But they can hear the piano player tap his foot and know they had leather soled slip on loafers that night 😁
YES! Who cares Music and your enjoyment is all the Counts. Love being Cheap most of this stuff is Overpriced Regardless of Salesmen Marketing Brainwash. Any AV Head will hunt down used Refurbished Thrift Black Friday Swap w friends. Joy in saving money to spend on Used Physical Media formats.
Agreed! I'm almost certain that I enjoy my records on my Fluance turntable through my Denon AV receiver and Jamo speakers more than many snobbier audiophiles enjoy their music.
I've been an audiophile for 38 years. I haven't got a clue about anything.
In which case, shortcuts such as "Don't buy anything under $5000" are really helpful to appear knowledgeable ;)
Me too!
@@weswheel4834 Ha, ha, ha! True!
@@andywrollo2915 I've been an audiophile for 35 years and don't know much either.
I just like to get the best sound out of my existing setup for as long as possible until it breaks and no longer sounds good. I also like to buy for longevity and ease of use for the lowest $$ feasible. Been that way since 1979
I was in the "HiFi" sales business back in the 80's and 90's. I always tried to give my customers the best opportunity to get pleasure from their purchase. I always felt that any system was better than the clock radio they might be listening to. Pursuing the "nth" degree of audiophiledom is a fun hobby but not for everyone. If the system you have gives you pleasure and sounds good to you, you can enjoy the hobby. Keep up the good word.
I try to do this with family and friends as well. If you push products out of their comfort zone they will just end up with a Walmart soundbar
After having been down that rabbit hole for a while, I can say especially in HiFi there is a lot of "different" sound, but it's very hard to define if there is actually one that's better than the other. To a certain degree of course you can easily tell that a speaker sounds better than a much cheaper alternative.
But I'd say, within the 2,000 Dollar price range you get 90% of what you'll get if you spend 10k or even more.
I've had the Wharfedale Lintons for a while and switched to Wharfedale Aura 2 a couple weeks ago. They cost 2k Euros (here in Germany) and they have that laid back british sound, but with more detail than the Lintons. It's the happiest I've been in a long time with a speaker. I wouldn't say they're better, because the Lintons simply do everything extremely well. More a matter of taste (sound- and designwise).
Compared to other entertainment tech, speakers are really a matter of what you like and what you need. Other with TVs for example, because in most cases you can very clearly a good from a bad picture quality, an OLED from an LED, etc. And also, usually bigger is always better, if you're into movies. It's easy.
Speakers are their own unique science.
@@Schlock3000 "Speakers are their own unique science."
Very true. I wanted something efficient for my little triode amps so I bought a 40 year old pair of Lowther Acousta 115s for £300 off Ebay. I spent a further £550 replacing the drive units. Lowther still make something very similar for £7K. There's something I like about single driver horns despite the space they occupy.
You’d be shocked how many audiophiles don’t have acoustically treated rooms. You spend 2K on a cable, but then you have bare walls.
You would be shocked that too many people believe treating a room and having a $500 system think it makes it sound like a $10000 system most belong to asr forum
Many of us don't have the luxury of a dedicated listening space and have to share rooms with our families who may not be thrilled with room treatment all over the walls.
Course if you live in your basement with no friends or family and never see the light of day, room treatment is an awesome idea.😜
I have a dedicated room with some treatment done. But I do have friends.
I got denon 4700h and mid range wharfedale speakers. Got as well svs sub for £600. And treated the living room with acustic panels. Plus got a lot of plants. I mean like real a lot of big bloody plants. Nice soft furniture. My system sounds so nice. I mean seriously lovely
@@jimfarrell4635 Not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you spend thousands of cables, but you don't treat your listening space (whether you can't or not is irrelevant), then you're wasting your money on cables.
The REL subwoofer FB page is one of the most Toxic audio communities I’ve personally come across.
I asked a simple question about my input on my 1205 mk2 subwoofers and all I got was:
-My Anthem AVR sucks for music.
-My room is atrocious and needs room treatment
-My speakers are placed wrong
-I shouldn’t put my AVR on top of my power amp.
No one actually answer my question
High-Level input is a 😮
Rel marketing strategy
JLA cr-1 active crossover
@ The REL 1205 don’t have hi-level inputs. They have two low level inputs with one designated as lfe. My question was if there was a difference between the two low level inputs, I was curious if one had different filters or not.
What's Facebook?
@@CarlVanDoren61 The Rel FB community is full of themselves who mindlessly repeat dogma for sure :-) That said, my personal experience with a few Rel subs across a few systems is that it that the high level input was clearly better. I also preferred overlapping the subs with the mains, without using an active crossover. So your milage may vary, but a marketing strategy I would say no. FWIW John Hunter guidelines on setup are not BS, as he is known in the industry as a "setup master", from before his Rel days, where he developed something called the "Sumiko Master Speaker Setup Guide" (fancy words 😆). What is BS is the idea that you can simply apply the same rules to any room. I personally got the best results, when I used live sweeps in REW to position my dual subs.
I found the REL videos on the REL Acoustics channel helpful. I was very pleased with being able to tune, place and adjust the crossover of my REL Acoustics Tzero MKIII Subwoofer. Don't give up.
The best video you have done. Being an audiophile means you are someone who loves music and likes to hear it in the best quality you can...
For me, beeing an audiophile means you are someone who loves technique and brands, and "sound", much more than you love music...
I’ve been an audiophile for 50 years. I started with a new Yamaha CR800 Receiver in 1974. The Speakers and Turntable from 1974 are long gone, but I recently got the CR800 out of the basement closet and it operates like new! I have recently paired it with a set of EMOTIVA XB2 speakers on sale for $399, a BluDento BLT-HD Bluetooth Audio Receiver for $80, and a Fluance RT82 Turntable for $299. So, for recently spending about $780, I’m back in business and am enjoying the hell out of it! Thanks, Randy for getting me back into audio after seeing one of your RUclips videos about a month or so ago.
Hi fi is like wine meaning a lot of cobblers is spoken about it. Each and everyone has different hearing, if it sounds good to you then that's a win.
And like wine, there is a lot of B.S. around it. People who claim that a wine is flinty, reminiscent of wet shoe leather, notes of hibiscus and elder flowers, etc, are likely full of crap. Much of the same non-specific language is used for audio as well.
When I got back into vinyl a couple years ago I fell for the "if you don't have this or that turntable, amp or speakers you're not going to be happy " well, I use a nearly 50nyear old technics sl-1800 paired with wharfedale 12.2 bookshelf speakers, yamaha a-s701 amp, schiit mani 2 pre and svs sb-1000 pro sub. Seems like it's good to me. Trying to keep up with the Jones will only create frustration. Buy what you like and sounds good to you, after all, you're the only one who's going to be listening to it anyway. No one really cares how much you spent on your 'audiophile " setup
@@bearded_wolverine3503 can't get back into vinyl. Hate flipping the disc over every 20 minutes or so, and turntables are finicky as hell in the real world.
I became an audiophile in the mid '60s. The word "audiophile" means "hi-fi enthusiast". For some reason, people today think it means having really deep pockets and spending enormous amounts of money. I personally have spent around $6,000 on gear over the last 60 years. That included a new Pioneer SX-1980 and Klipsch Cornwall speakers.
Good music & good recordings are different things. Plenty of music moves me but I wouldn't pretend it's well recorded or "audiophile". Of course the best experience is finding music that ticks both boxes.
Audiophile music is often un-listenable.
@@hugobloemers4425 do you have specific examples? I am curious about trying these..
The simple fact, is that "audiophiles" pay for exclusivity, and bragging rights.
Handmade, limited availability isn't necessarily better... it just costs more.
Lets be honest, most people can't hear any difference anyway... but still think they might gain something by paying more than they need to.
For every sucker, there is a salesman waiting.
I love JBL because they have volume. Makes good stuff cheanper
we live in a country that eulogises con artists!
Most people don't have the luxury of building a dedicated room for HiFi listening. Plus they are extremely limited in speaker positioning (most have them less than 12" from the wall) . Room treatment is an option that most aren't willing or able to invest in. But... room correction is here to save the day with all of this. I find it bizarre and funny that most "audiophiles" don't take the time to measure and correct the bass modes in their room as it's cheap, pretty easy and makes huge differences that spending thousands on new equipment can't achieve.
I have a PC desktop setup in the corner of the room against a wall. I use a DSPeaker room correction unit and it sounds great. Press the "bypass" key and its shocking how bad it sounds uncorrected.
A huge problem is people being snarky keyboard warriors. We are all so impolite and impersonal to one another online that we forget that this is a passion that is supposed to drive positive feelings. However, it is that passion that drives us all to do deep dives, hundreds of hours of research, second guessing, and validating our choices and purchases against a subjective and ever changing experience. In a sense, most audiophiles are simply people that have been driven by their passion to complete their own neurotic battle to get the best experience we can, chasing that dragon. It IS exhausting, especially over time, and to see someone making "mistakes" we may have made long ago, it can be frustrating, and we want to save them time or money by offering our advice. But there is a massive lack of gentlemanly conversation, treating others with disrespect because we're all reduced to letters on a screen and not a physical body with thoughts and feelings. Which is kind of funny because this journey is all about the physics and physical nature of the experience.
I have been an audiophile for 50 years and....its all about the music lol. seriously, all the music I love, I first heard on a small transistor radio, powered by a battery and one small 3 inch speaker
My GF loves her music on her Android phone. I guess that makes her an Audiophile. I never thought about her like that before.
PS, if that 3" speaker is a Fostex FE83, you could still qualify as Audiophile ;)
I love what you did here you big hunk of Cheapaudio man. Getting you into the music is more important than perfection. Done is better than perfect.
Speaker position is very important.
I did the LOTS from your friend Ron and that made a big positive difference.
I have been an "audiophile" if that means using many audio components over the last 40 years from cheap to expensive, to enjoy music over the years, and I completely agree with this opinion.
I'm a Cerwin Vega fan so I'm obviously not an audiophile, but.. my listening area is 15 feet from my front channels out of necessity so most bookshelf speakers aren't gonna cut it. I hope the industry goes back to 12 and 15" 3-way speakers being the norm without having to get a bank loan to afford them.
The funny thing is that even so-called non-audiophile genres like metal have nuances that a non-listener might not necessarily pick up on. I have definitely found that not having speakers or headphones with decent enough definition such as thin phone or TV speakers kind of turns it to mush and it's harder to hear things like note definition and transient response. Metal is so much more than "angry music" for those of us who take the time to appreciate it. Love this series as always and I definitely hate the gatekeeping and arbitrary classifications the audiophile community can have.
I've been an audiophile for 50 years. I am constantly surprised by what kit still comes on the scene.
Just buy something you like the sound of and can afford - but keep buying music (or stream something new, whatever your source preference). If you want a good place to start with your gear, do this:
1. Find a small music venue that presents music you like.
2. Go on an open mic night. Many of the artists are happy to talk to you.
3. Ask an artist you like what they listen to at home. Most are on a budget and spend their money *really* well.
I put my system together about two years ago. I am in my 50s and have tinnitus and a room with tile floors. Does it sound perfect? Maybe not to someone else, but it sounds pretty damn good to me.
Aiyima A07 Amp $80
Aiyima T9 DAC $100
Elac B6.2 Debut 2 $300( on sale)
12 year old Blu Ray Player as a CD player (don't remember what I paid)
My enjoyment of this cheap system: $$Priceless
So you're the "real" cheapaudioman. Nothing wrong with that. Enjoy the music !!!
The budget! Indeed, I think that's the most common blindspot for audiophiles: Simply forgetting that some people can't spend an endless amount on hi-fi.
Of course, too many of these people have placed tens of thousand of dollars worth of equipment in totally untreated rooms.
Thanks for taking these things up 👌🎶
To add to the "your music is garbage" reason is some will say the kind of music you listen to is wrong as well. It seems that if you don't listen to classical, jazz, or the live version of Hotel California, you're listening to the the wrong music.
@@paultomaszewski1964 There is an argument to be had about music you use to audition equipment.
That said, don't audition equipment by playing classical or jazz if you never listen to it, pick well mastered songs in the genre you do listen to.
This is because botique brands cannot handle hard music like punk or metal. That is why I would never buy those brands.
@@niklasschmidtMy Wiim Amp loves punk. Just saying...
I use the woman ultra myself
Soft furnishings are adequate 'room treatment'.
Also,a lot of YT reviewers assume that everybody is wealthy.
my rule of thumb if you can't hear a diffent don't buy it
There's always a difference it's a matter of what different sound one prefers. Then there's the price difference.
I am 178 years old and use a pair Klipsch K- horns connected to my Victrola for near field listening. If you do anything else, you’re woefully under under informed.
If music is recorded so badly it makes you angry, it is good music because anger is also an emotion 😂
I transitioned into an audiophile in 1991, I identified as an audiophile ever since then, I got a audio advisor catalog, and I started working full time job, and using credit cards back then started buy audio components from then on
I've been an audiophile for uptingk years and the biggest bummer I have about this is getting older, my ear performance continues to deteriorate. I measured my hearing response at age 58, after I accidently demo a subwoofer at excessive loudness which caused hearing damage. Now my frequency response is 45hz - 14Khz. Before the accident I could hear those sweet violins at 17Khz, no more. I am hoping future NANO technology will be able to repair the cilia structures in my cochlea and bring back those missing frequencies.
I've been an audiophile for 40 years and I have learned more in the past couple of years than the previous 38! Audio has changed drastically from the original heyday of the 70's to today. I have a pair of $100 speakers bought a couple of years ago that challenge my high end speakers I bought in the late 70's for over $500 (in 70's dollars!). I used to chase accuracy, thinking that was the holy grail. I learned from Guttenberg and Resolve from The Headphone Show (just today!) that absolute accuracy is a myth. I can't wait to find out what I learn next! Great channel Randy.
I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music fan and Cheapaudioman helped me pick a sub $500 system that sounds better than anything I've owned before and better than some fairly expensive systems roommates had. Recent new addition: Philips CD player w digital out for $4.
I recently moved 2 tables and opened up my small listening area, then hung some fleece blankets on shelves next to the speakers and it made a huge difference in soundstage width. Cost me $16. 😁
Many of the speakers I've tried, mostly cheap ones, sound great at the right volume in the right places in the right rooms, but then can't seem to be made to sound good in another room in any position at any volume. So I think the room and speaker placement, along with listening volume can make a huge difference in how good or bad a speaker sounds. The only thing I find that's relatively consistent is that the lowest end of the speaker offerings are usually much more sensitive to volume than higher, typically more expensive speakers. The good news isn't that expensive speakers sound better at a variety of volume levels. The good news is that even really inexpensive or trash picked speakers often sound great if you play then at just the right level.
I agree, and this is true for the amp as well
I tend to like listening at lower levels, even while the family thinks it's too loud. I have tried different levels, measuring with a phone app (for what it's worth). Apparently I do listen at much lower levels than the RUclips channels reviews refer to. Why is 80-90 DB so important?
@pascalmartin1891 I'm with you. I actually listen at levels low enough that regular people think it's nice and soft, but that's only some of the time.
I think the reason that such high listening levels are important to the industry is that those are the standard nominal levels for real orchestral instruments at like 1 meter away. It's really too loud for comfortable listening, and of course it really applies specifically to acoustic instruments designed in the era before electronic amplification. Trumpet, viola, timpany - those were made to fill a large hall where half of the people would be more than 12 meters away. The closest audience members in those settings are 3 meters away at least. But the db level at one meter is a reference that is used to create loudspeakers, even cheap ones. So it's interesting to know that often even very junky speakers played in their sweet spot volume range can sound remarkably good compared to the levels they more typically get played at.
Thanks for this. It always annoys me when someone posts their budget, asking for suggestions, and some jerk says "save up until you have XXX." I think it's fun to help people with a small budget get started with cheap used gear, and the beauty of it is, in today's market, if you make good choices you can get remarkably good sound for pretty darned cheap.
Hi Randy,
You’re right on the money and I’ve been an audiophile for fifty years. I dislike audiophile snobs and those not willing to try and experiment with different equipment be it new, cheap or vintage to find the sound you like. At the end of the day it’s about enjoying the music and be happy with what you have.
My pet peeve is when someone says X wipes the flaw with Y or some similar hyperbolic statement. In the audio world this is seldomly true unless we are talking about something like a cell phone speaker vs a set of bookshelves.
Even a McIntosh doesn't wipe the floor with those cheap $100 Class D amps.
This guy does just this in almost every video 😂
Your absolutely right you don't need to spend an arm and a leg to achieve bliss and if you think you need to spend an arm and a leg then my friend your journey will never end.
I had a Dynaco Stereo 70, AR-3 speakers, Thorens TD124 with Shure's top cartridge. I went into a High end store to see what they had and was told everything I had was Junk ! The arrogance is a feature of HIGH END >
You went to the wrong dealer.
Because they wanted to sell you something, anything. The only thing that matters is that you like it.
What you have is basic stuff to be fair not junk , not high end
@@misterzero8667Tut tut tut!
I’ve been a stereo owner and music lover for almost 50 years. And a retired electronics engineer for 32 years. I’m still figuring this crap out. But what I have recently learned is I’m done moving up and now getting simpler. My best equipment makes me listen to music I don’t love, just like. The music I love (classic rock) sounds just as good on my inexpensive system.
I agree totally and although I have finally compiled a more expensive system than your target audience I have realised a few things in the last 5 years of OCD levels of investigation before choosing to buy varios bits .
1) Just because a product claims varios advantages that does not meen you need them my $15 K approx. system is still running through nicol and dime Speaker cables.
2) Consider Linear power supplies even the most expensive are only a few hundred dollars and when I bought mine at a late stage in my investment I described it as the most notable single upgrade in my sound quality.
3) Although I have an expensive Balanced Tube Amp and have not in fact heard a Single Ended Tube Amp, there is a dedicated band of experienced Audiophiles that will swear that a single ended amp is the zenith of sound reproduction, and they are so technologically simple that they are potentially the cheapest amps available.
My listening environment is so bad that in some ways it works in my favour where some people have 'First reflection Sound treatments' I have corridors. where sound studios panel the walls etc I have curtains or shelves and Furniture.
One problem I fear I will never overcome is having to keep my Speakers closer to the wall than is recommended so I chose a set of Speakers that have a front ported base speaker.
I have been an audiophile for I do not want to write that number down years, and, I learn more every year. The key is there are many routes to audio nirvana and many preferences; just when I think I have it all figured out, something always surprises me. Enjoy the ride and the music.
I have just gotten myself a 32bit USB-C DAC for my Android phone collection of FLAC audio files. The quality of sound through my ten years old Audio Technica ATH-M50X is breathtakingly good - astonishing, in fact. The DAC cost me less than $20. I am thrilled to hear my music collection at a level of emotional engagement that I never even knew was possible. Oh, I’ve been an audiophile for over 45 years and happily admit I know nothing about anything other than what makes want to get up and sing and dance.
Thank you so much for this video Randy. This is one of my favorite videos you’ve done.
Not for nothing, but if you are living paycheck to paycheck, perhaps buying superfluous audio gear at any price isn't the best idea.
@@kodacres7820 when I first got into good sound in high school, all of my gear was from thrift stores, from relatives, or from yard sales. I had to pay for my books, lab fees, and any extracurricular events, our money was TIGHT.
I also worked at least 10 hours a week from the age of 15 on.
In response to the criticism that pop music was insubstantial teenage fluff, Pete Townshend once said good popular music moves your head, your heart or your feet and that the best popular music moves all three.
I've been suffering from the FOMO syndrome since my first taste of HiFi as a teenager in the late 70's. Going bankrupt a year ago changed my desire to keep up with the Jones'. Sure I'd love a complete Emotiva system, but income dictates the wide line between needs and wants. So, if someone looks down their nose and tries to tell me that I have to get better gear to be in their league I give 'em a solid "okay buddy - thanks - bye". I am totally blessed to have hand-me-downs, open box, on sale and my dumpster diving fixed up gear to use for music and movies. The other even bigger blessing I have is the few friends that are also into affordable HiFi; rather they live nearby or far away to the South and Mid-West. You know who you are and I pray to Heaven above that I can return the favors 10x over.
All the very best to everyone - enjoy the music!
I assumed you were younger than me. I was 15 in 1985, mad props on saving that kind of money being that young and knowing hi-fi at a young age.
Another words, some people take this hobby/ entertainment way too seriously. I agree with you Randy 💯
Rock on, cheapaudioman. You provide quality content. Some of your work has benefitted my system. Although my system isn't like yours, I like it. That makes me lucky. I have known several audiophiles with more than 200k invested in their room and system who are perpetually unhappy with what they own. The designer Jeff Rowland used to speak about audio playback in terms of parts per thousand and parts per million. I think that is sometimes a useful way of looking at the issue.
The worst is the labeling, Trash, Garbage, this is BEST! And it plays into peoples wanting to belong. Screw that. Listen to what you like. Cause we both know that’s why Baskin Robbins sells more than vanilla😊Love you brother. Keep on pluggin
Great video Randy! The points you make are why Wiim has sold a boat load of Wiim Minis for $89. A great value oriented streamer that's best in class for the price point.
I love your take on room treatment. I have a good system but the listening space is also our living room and I can’t just make changes to the room for the purpose of dialing in the perfect arrangement of equipment.
I'm no audiophile, but I appreciate this list of "toxic traits"-I've come across every single one of them. That said, I do believe the room itself plays a huge role in sound quality. I listen to music in two different spaces: one is acoustically balanced with no echo, and the sound is fantastic. The other, however, is a literal glass house-a sunroom. While I still enjoy music there, the sound quality is objectively muddled and chaotic due to all the reflective surfaces. Then again, I'm not an audiophile, I won't let the bouncy sound spoil my day.
You’re so right! It took me more than 20 years to finally get to what is to me a kick butt, beautiful sounding system.
Except for the Emotiva MR1,11.2 receiver, everything else was bought used one by one: Four Polk Audio Lsi 15, one Lsi C, and one Golden ear SuperSub X.
Good points all. I listen, watch tv, and pretty much live in the same room. I use a pre-amp (Emotiva XDA-3) that has a built in DAC because it does the job and sounds great. Is it the "Best". I doubt it but it makes me smile daily. I do like gear but I like music more. Keep up the good work Randy.
If you're happy then that's good enough.
Great video. Been my stance since i was a kid. You don't need to be a millionaire to get great sound. Do your research, audition gear. Research companies, do they stand by their product? Is the product competently designed with good components? Does it have the specs and measurements that matter to you? Most importantly the reality is it only needs to sound good to YOU! And in that same breath, respect others opinions. No need to clash and butt heads over the hobby that brings us so much joy! Remember, it's about music and the way it makes us feel!
My room is garbage. And I love this series, it’s really the water boiling over and Randy needs to vent 😂.
The room is the most important ingredient in your system. Always.
I really appreciated this video because forums and videos are FULL of “advice” that’s a real turn-off to newbies.
Also, I LOVE my Fosi/SMSL/Topping etc equipment. I get to play with it and find out what I enjoy.
I’ve been an audiophile for 25 years, long enough to know the sound characteristics I want from my music (and to know to audition equipment by ear and not by paper measurement) but definitely not long enough to tell others that they are wrong about their choices (after all I do not have their ears).
Being more interested in the technology then the art is mental.
Especially since we all know technology improve constantly...
Definitely about enjoying what you have and what you can afford. Last year I replaced a £450 amp with a £1600 amp that sounds a bit better, because I have a decent job and low outgoings and that's stuff that interests me. But about 40 years ago aged 14 I saved up pocket money and spent about £10 on some new empty ready made speaker cabinets, and some slightly smaller speakers sold cheap as clearance that I adapted to fit with a bit of plywood. I dared to open up my £50 Toshiba radio/cassette and solder in some speaker sockets. As I listened to the pop charts I'd recorded through my external speaker upgrade that little "hi-fi" was my pride and joy!
Pretentiousness, Eliteism, and plain speaking, Snobbery abounds in this hobby. There are a few humble influencers out there, but few and far between. Thank you for always providing me with solid perspectives and advice. I don't always agree, but when I have followed your advice, I have usually been very happy and satisfied. Take care, and all the very best, Sir.
@@Simon_Hawkshaw you’re the best, Simon! Hope you’re doing well
@cheapaudioman I am doing well. Thank you so much for asking. Take care.
Well I’ve been an audiophile for 55 years and have a great system. All of what you said in this video is very true. Well said.
Just enjoy the music! Granddad and his friends listened to music on a console in the 70s and had a great time spinning records and 8 tracks.
The one thing that people don't realize is that room correction (EQ across the entire spectrum) makes the biggest difference and I didn't know that either. If you change 5 bands, the soundstage will change more than upgrading from a FOSI to 6 pieces of McIntosh separates and dropping $100k - seriously. What surprised me the most is the impact it had on spaciousness and soundstage - EQ literally opens and closes the room. It's shocking when you hear it.
I have 2 presets on my Denon that have completely different curves and the difference is simply hard to explain.
By extension, it also means the room makes the largest difference. A good room may sound incredible with the cheapest bluetooth speaker while a bad room will sound terrible with high-end gear.
Heard this myth so many times by people with cheap crappy systems whatever helps you cope with the bitterness and jealousy towards people who spend more on HiFi than you
@misterzero8667 not sure what you mean. I'm not sure my system is crappy.
The "Just save up..." used to be what I would do when I saw something I would like to get. I'd wait about a month to make sure I had the money, and usually by the time I'd go back to get said item - it was gone and not coming back in stock.
That's the other downside of "waiting till I have enough".
Great list, enjoyed the video, thank you. Mine would be sometimes there are beliefs OUTSIDE of the performance of something that impact what we think and how we experience it. Nostalgia (vintage), brand bias, aesthetics and so on. For my specific example, ChiFi. It may outperform the components I would choose, or at least provide more value in a cost analysis, but due to my socio-economic beliefs I'd rather buy from a Geshelli or used Bryston etc. It's not always about what's on the paper or even what the ears hear, to be specific to this hobby, my journey and how I curate that journey will impact how that sounds when I sit on my couch in my untreated living room with a myriad of mix matched gear and it makes me smile. If one's journey doesn't include that socio-economic perspective, good for you, I hope you enjoy your experience nonetheless.
I've been collecting records (music) since I was a pre-teen. That said, with over 50 years of collecting, it has only been just recently I've started paying a lot of attention to audio equipment - Meaning specs other than price. And to add, it is b/c of channels like yours, I've gotten a great education on what is or isn't great recordings or great audio equipment. My point? I agree with you that the number of years thinking - time alone makes you an astute audiofile - is BS. Example: Just learned that the base of a record player is called a plinth. 😳 Or finding out the differences between moving magnet or coil. Thanks for my ever expanding enlightenment.
I’ve been an audiophile for 40 years and have only changed my system 3 times. I buy and enjoy the best I can afford. 2nd hand is a great way to get great gear.
The point of all of this is being able to listen to the best sound that you can put together. If you aren't listening to the music on the best that you are reasonably willing to afford, you aren't doing it right, so best to get started as soon as you can. We have Audiogon and Music Room and eBay etc, paying list price is for those with lots of spare cash and no patience to wait for sales or hunt for bargains. Last month I went looking for a deal on Kef R3 Metas on eBay and found a smokin' hot deal that originated from a local store so I went and picked them up. Not 'cheap', but nowhere close to list price either :)
I have been a music lover for over 50 years, and have been waiting, over 50 years to be able to afford becoming an audiophile. LOL. I know what you mean whenever I mention, my system is all fluance RT85 > PA10 > AI61 > DB10’s, I hear a lot of crap, toy, garbage, but you know what makes me happy.
I’ve owned a ton of equipment. I’ve never had a bad sounding system. Literally everything I’ve purchased has sounded good one way or the other. My favorite systems, the ones I have been the most satisfied with, were all generally cheaper ones.
Rule of thumb: upgrade when your music cost more than your gear. Also don't be seduced by solid aluminium billet amplifier fascias - or gorgeous veneers (at least beyond 'I have to live with this) and consider DIY. And active with DSP - because that way, you can tinker and play and try stuff, rather than be grumpy about trading up the whole time. It uses your time in an interesting and educational way, instead of wasting it on window shopping and just spending money.
Rick Beato once made the offhanded comment to the effect of why buy audio equipment that has tighter specs than the studio music production equipment.
That's the advantage of having no friends or family by choice.Nobody to give me an opinion = no headache. I am very comfortable to be alone.😁
I just hate it when people disquality tone control and loudness because it's not "pure" or "as the artist intended". There're cool functions, in some cases boost the enjoyment and correct some specific issues you might have. It's your system!
Great video Randy! So many excellent points.
I recently picked up an immaculate pair of Yamaha NS-333 speakers on eBay for £25...its not about spending lots for me its about the thrill of searching and finding a used audio bargain, found some absolute gems over the years
One of the best days in my audio life was walking out of an audio store after scratching the itch of is more really that much better. My $500 Dac/Amp combo VS a piece of $5000 equipment. After a good listening session....nope. Very happy.
I wanted an audiophile system because I like listening to music as it was originally mastered. Perhaps there is still a little bragging when I can show off the clarity, staging and vocal range ... but in the end it still boils down to me wanting to enjoy my music as close to the original master as humanly possible.
Correct totally agree with you. It's about enjoying the music. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune on hifi. If you can spend little and get maximum enjoyment then it's win win. It's exactly the same as these audiophiles that say you should never use tone controls. You should listen to the music how you want to listen to the music. All this not as the artist intended is garbage
I have been following audio science review for a little while and find it to be quite enlightening.
I'm not an "audiophile". However, I do appreciate nice gear that actually sounds good in my room. That being said, I still use a Denon (made in Japan) amp that I bought for my 30th birthday in 1991. I got it at HiFi Buys in Atlanta for $999 and it was the most expensive piece of gear I had ever bought. It still sounds good to me and it is heavy. I'm old school and to me heavy amps are good amps. One thing I am over is expensive home theater gear. I had some crazy expensive stuff in a dedicated home theater in my old house and that HT stuff becomes obsolete in a hurry. Especially the $9000 projector I had. Now, a 75" TV is just fine for me and I can replace it for a fraction of the money. One thing I do know from that room which was acoustically treated is rectangular rooms are better than square. Bass nodes are bad in square rooms.
Well ... ive listened to alot of different kinds of amps/speakers/headphones. Every time someone asks me about my opinion about smth they want to get im like "hold on, tell me your budget, tell me what kind of sound you like" and ill go ahead and do research and i end up saving them a buck with smth they are more happy with (if they dont know what kind of sound they like ill tell them more about the hardware and how it might sound). Sometimes i will even go ahead and tell them to visit a store to get a quick listen (if they have the time for that) Many HiFi stores allow you to go there, have a listen and they give you good advice. So i dont get why so many "audiophiles" say to just save up and get x. I have to thank a friend for giving me my first set of amps and cheap bookshelf speakers a few years ago for next to nothing.
Btw ... There is no good and bad, only "I like it" and "i dont like it"
The amount of time someone has been an audiophile is irrelevant as our taste in music and equipment is subjective. Our budgets vary wildly as well. It's not my place to tell someone how much to spend and on what. Anyway, we all started somewhere. I started with a suitcase type mono record player in the 1970s long before I'd even heard the term audiophile. Great video and good advice.
You may like alternative Ulster album by stiff little fingers, northern Ireland punk band and still touring and still incredible live, especially for bass and energy Wasted life is incredible
I enjoy many kinds of music. Over the years I hope I've learned enough to put together an audio system that I can afford as well as enjoy. Largely, I think I've done OK in both departments.
There is an old saying or two, one is "If you say something is impossible...you are narrow-minded." 😂...I have been an Audio Appreciator, since I was 16...I could only afford a system till I was 30! I'm 75 and unfortunately have no system, but soon.
@cheapaudioman Very interesting topic. I slightly disagree on whether or not to wait to get a quality product. I agree that for many cost will be a factor. The one thing that frustrates me is the cheap quality of many things, including appliances. I'm beginning to think more closely of things that won't last longer, as I don't want to be on the treadmill of replacing everything every three to five years because nothing lasts. The channel helps though, because you listen listen listen to tons of feedback and reviews, and eventually there will be a theme of something worth purchasing. Thanks, this was very useful. 🙃
Proud to be a hearing-impaired audiomusicphile.
A lot of people who buy hi-fi gear only get these systems because they have space to fill in their rec rooms or living rooms. When guests or family members come over they don't want to feel inadequate without it. Few people buy systems as a hobby pursuit. Most of them don't know crap about the gear they own and couldn't care less.
LoL I’ve been an audiophile my whole life life. My first vinyl purchase was Yurtle the Turtle. Love your content!
I came here for a discussion of speaker cables, interconnect cables, speak cable stands, vibration dampers, and any other snake oil in the high-end HiFi world. Perhaos that is a different video...
cables make a noticeable difference if you have high resolution components. 100% not snake oil.
@@km1234321Of course there is a difference, but not that something is better or worse...but that it sounds different!
@@km1234321 Not possible if they measure the same. It is all in your head. Cables can make a difference in ultra high frequencies (mhz range). Fancy expensive cables add nothing to the frequencies involved in audio production. A cable either works or it doesn't.
Well said, I agree 150% with everything you just said I will just add a little bit every hobby which I have a few loving listening to music is one of them, but every hobby has its gatekeepers has it snobs has it’s toxic corner where all the idiots hang out personally I sometimes look at them type of comments have a bit of a laugh. Don’t take it too seriously cause I think them people are beyond help there is no need and no excuse for toxicity and nastiness in any hobby. Good for you for speaking out and taking a bit of a stand.
Randy if you can ever swing it. You should set a room aside and do a real low budget treatment job. Do what Darko did but do DIY CHEAP Audio Man style. I love the deep dives Darko did on room treatment.
Your component price reason was spot on.
Yup - it's the same with most hobbies. I ride motorcycles and FFS there are people who still argue for drum brakes. Or - Oh it's watercooled - you suck. People do what they do.
I stepped back into audio recently and have a small wireless system that, to me, sounds incredible - just incredible, I have every recording on earth at my fingertips, and it cost less than my last pair of speakers. Heck - in my studio I have a set of pioneer shelf speakers and boat amp that was a thing because of a defective triode or something, and it sounds sweet. Throw in a Wiim... What a world.
The only argument I have is regarding poor recordings: Husker Du's Flip Your Wig - has someone remastered it for the sake of all that is holy.
All I need is a system with good clarity, detail, and transients, minimal sibilance, solid (but not boomy) bass, well defined midrange, high signal to noise ratio, good soundstage and focus, adequate power output, sounds good at low volume as well as loud. Other than that, I'm not real picky, and any old stuff will do.
The cool thing about Chinese manufacturing is that the barrier to entry for quality hifi is lower than it's ever been. I started with headphones much earlier, so my first proper (not AV recceiver) stereo amp was an Onkyo A-9010 at $350. Today that entry level amp would probably have been a $150 Fosi Audio/any of the hot cheap amps now - better still a pair of monoblocks for $200+. The speakers were Pioneer SP-BS22-LR and I think they were $150 a pair. Today there are plenty more options to choose from at around the same price, and likely better too. There's a price point for everyone and no one should be begrudged their choice or their budgets.
But I disagree with the music part! My nostalgia powered music is the poorly recorded and mastered pop, rap and alternative of the late 80s and the 90s - plus the electronica of the 2000s. I don't quite enjoy listening to them as much anymore because I can't bear how terrible they sound. Thanks to the hobby, I have since learned to love new genres of music, jazz, all kinds of stuff that's well recorded, striking a good balance between critical listening and enjoyable tracks. Sure, I'll take those trips down memory lane from time to time but I'm an SQ forward audiophile and not afraid to admit it. You know, it's like the whisky hobby too - it's not about what other people say, it's about what you like. If you can only take your Laphroaig on the rocks, more power to you, as long as you enjoy it!😜