Love the analysis at the start at the comparisment between how a being like Xera and Elune speaks. Was really waiting for your analysis on this one, checked out belular as well, and some arguments/comments: 13:30 Elune not being responsible for the burning. I agree and don't believe that's the story they want to tell, but the cutscene does not shoot down the idea because of how vague it is. 'In the wake of tragedy' does not mean she didn't cause the tragedy. "Even in this dark hour, they would say, Elune still watches over us. And that was almost certainly true, wasn’t it? Elune had intervened. Perhaps she had even stayed Saurfang’s killing blow." 15:50 SPOILERS Next week you'll find out that the Archon and others close to her were aware of the drought and kept their mouth shut. Kalisthene: "My orders were to keep the aspirants training, to bide our time until the drought passed. I was not to tell them that every single soul was sent straight to the maw, that the shadowlands had broken down." Still fair to say that Elune wasn't aware of this. She just knew there was a drought and send souls to help without questioning why there was a drought. Don't blame Elune for that, gods can be dumb... but why are the night elves oke with this? 23:30 That's a big self insert on the level of Sylvanas passed the kill of Malfurion to Saurfang to test his loyalty. This is a Tyrande that told thrall 'don't talk to me until you bring me the banshee's head to I'm jumping in the maw to you go save the spirits of our people, i'm on the hunt to I'm here banshee queen, time for revenge. I'm ready to trade my life for yours. But somewhere in between, in her mind without showing any sign of it she figured ehhhhh nevermind?! There's a chapter of storytelling missing for the night warrior where she flows into forgiveness making this 'choice' fall flat on its face + no recognition for what Elune did or didn't do for the night elves.
My thought was that her choice meant holding onto Elune's power to continue to seek revenge, or let it go in order to allow Elune and the Winter Queen to work together to save the rest of the night elves souls. And the presumably, the latter seemed like a more worthwhile pursuit to Tyrande. Maybe. I do agree that the whole thing was too vague. After all, people are clearly having different understandings here. That is a problem.
Big agree on this. What I find very lacking in this entire storyline is insight into Tyrande's thought process and reasoning. I want to know why she chose renewal when she was so hell bent on vengeance before. Would also be great to see both Tyrande and other Night Elven characters like Shandris have some proper dialogue about Elune and what they mean to her in the wake of all this - the brief dialogue that is had afterwards don't really say much about what they are thinking other than "her voice was beautiful" and "we were both sad".
YES Nobbel thank you. I agree with all your comments. I wish they would have handled this story with a bit more grace, time, and forward planning. Tyrande went from super-sayan flying at Sylvanas for the kill to "meh, let's choose forgiveness" in the blink of an eye. That was a fumble, in my opinion. I love the WoW story, i love the writers, I'm sure Christie's Sylvanas book is going to be excellent. But I'm just a little disappointed and tired of all the unanswered questions / expectations being subverted.
Love to see the lore invested youtubers bash heads! Don't mean that negativly. Hope Tali makes a reply to this. You both are so deeply invested in the lore so its interesting watch two different people on it than everyone being more focused on the shot show going on these days and claiming because of it, everything related to blizz is trash.
I think with the revenge is like when you seek something in real life and until you don't have it you look for it and seek it. Then you receive what you wanted and it becomes irrelevant really fast. It doesn't have to be big relevation, but something just deep inside which just told her basically "killing sylvanas won't bring you peace"
one of my boomkin guildies pulled a 4.66 MILLION starsurge in Torghast recently O_O (I wasn't there so no idea every power that went into that). Apparently he deleted the Adamant Vaults boss so effectively it took the game several seconds to realize the boss was dead XD
As taliesan said the link of elune involved in the great cycle and eonar holding a 'piece' of the realms of life through the emeral dream my mind hit a very interesting thought. Is elune the world soul?
also, unless I'm wrong, invoking the Night Warrior is about vengeance. The type of people that go to the Kyrian would not be about taking vengeance but getting justice.
@@NinjaFlibble Not all Night Warriors have such a negative motivation determine their paths. Talk to Thiernax again on your Night Fae toons, and he will remark not how he was wrong with his choice or what he did with Elune's power, but ruing insteaed the fact that sharing the burden with Qadarin cost his husband's life as well. So they don't all burn out on their quest for vengeance. I think that a Night Warrior could very well make the unthinkable choice of invoking Elune for purely selfless reasons, and be spent in their quest for justice knowing full well and embracing the destiny that was set for them, uncorrupted in their purpose. Such a Night Warrior might well go to Bastion. But on arriving, they would still be encouraged to purge their memories as happens to all Kyrians.
@@NinjaFlibble That is explicitly wrong. The Night Warrior is the aspect of justice and vengeance can be justice. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Vindication, retribution, these are asll ways that peace of mind can be achieved, which are all part of Elune's whole shtique; Knowing when to fight, knowing when to die fighting, knowing when the live to fight another day and knowing when to live to live in peace. Sylvanas murdered uncountable innocents. Her death is justice for the night elves and I don't think you can deny that. The difference between justice and vengeance often seems arbitrary in this setting; The only difference is the presentation and window dressing most of the time.
I don't think a person not remember they're a night warrior wouldn't matter, they don't have to know for someone else to know, it just makes them a little useless without the knowledge that they were so why bother going there
Yes! THANK YOU! I was worried if this video would come at all, considering everything that's going on. Talie's "translations" (as I call 'em) make understanding WoW lore so much easier and more enjoyable to me.
Some might consider that a problem with the writing, especially since a lot of what he says in the video is just his inference, interpretation, or speculation.
and thats how you know that the lore is so poorly portrayed - that you need youtubers that know the devs to explain what they should have explained through their cinematics. When u dont understand what's happening, are confused or "would understand anything about the lore" as u put it, you know its being put forth in a terrible way. They COULD make it clearer, but they like the arbitrary discussion it creates on the internet and prefer that over good story telling
I am glad that even though Elune was using Tyrande as a vessel to communicate with her sister, the voice was not Tyrande's but her own. Ok after hearing it a little more, it does sound like it's a combination of Tyrande's voice and Elune's. So possibly two different voice actresses.
@Nathan Taffijn The vast majority of voice actors are not vocal chameleons like Mel Blanc or the few other names we all know. Most who alter their voices for rroles are still quite recognizable as the same people.
In the german version at least i can tell it's Tyrandes Voice with a fancy filter over it to symbolize that Elune is speaking through her- so idk :shrug:
In the German Version, elune does not take credibility of the burning. But for the sending(not preventing) the souls to the shadowland. Edit: Should have waited 20 sec for your explanation xD. its 100% right
She also doesn't take credit for the genocide in the english. "In the wake of tragedy, I sent forth cascade of souls.", the meaning is simple, she knew her people had been massacred and decided to send their souls to Ardenweald. And before you ask why she did not stop it, she is a goddess, not some trash picker. Also, she actually said "in the wake of a tragedy", the subtitles are wrong. That 'a' makes a lot of difference.
I got the feeling the German synchronization is generally a lot more clear, or at least less ambiguous. In the raid cinematic for example, Sylvanas says: „I will never serve AGAIN“ which makes a whole lot more sense.
I haven't played for little bit more than a year now, won't do so even less with all that is going on, but I'm always glad to be following the story alongside this channel, you guys keep my love for this universe alive, thank you!
Same I quit wow after Legion. I personally I feel like I can't justify paying $60 for the expansion than give them another $15 to keep playing. It's like buying a toy and than you have to pay Mattel money to play with it every day.
@@boneshaman8912 60$ and then 15$ per month or 155.88$ per year. Make the expansion cycle 2 years and we paid 371.76$ for an expansion that provided less than Witcher 3 Hearts of Stone dlc...
When Tyrande speaks to Shandris, they were both overtaken with emotion on being that close to their goddess. This was a spiritual moment for them. Another thing catching my eye was before and after speaking to available NPCs, things similar to the old gods were mentioned A LOT. Thiernax & Qadarin especially. Plus we left that lovely void seed in the Emerald Dream back in Legion.
There’s a piece of dialogue in the Heart Of the Forest after this. Tyrande speaks to a night elf soul, and in it mentions elunes power did not leave her, implying she still has the power of the night warrior.
this also explains the weird repeatable quest we kept getting as night fae to go and collect more and more of the night elf souls from the maw (different to the torghast souls) its a shame those quests were just weirdly floating out there with nothing going on
I think a lot of player anger can also be explained by the fact that non-Nightfae actually get no info about all this whatsoever until this questline and cinematic because our queslines before that actually delivered zero info about any of this.
@@HH-hd7nd That's something that is quite striking. Some content is so fundational (like the Bolvar quests to rescue our leaders from Torghast) that should be overarching regardless of Covenant choice. I think this bit should be part of it (up to and including Ysera's requests for night elf souls from the Maw), and I really think Ardenweald's campaign as a whole would have benefitted from it. Each zone's pre-covenant choice questline sets up an enemy that is sommehow connected to the Maw and the Jailer, but the only zone where that enemy goes nowhere is Ardenwewald. When playing through the Ardenweald covenant campaign, the lack of focus is really glaring and in the end, the only plot point explored during that campaign that does not get a satisfactory resolution is the Drust subplot, when it should have been the main focus in my opinion
@@HH-hd7nd Remains to be seen, but with the way the Ardenweald campaign was written, the "resolution" of the Drust arc was quite unsatisfying. And it's especially annoying because it is the object of the final chapter on said campaign. Of all the servants of the Jailer (the Forsworn of Lysonia and Devos, the traitors from Maldraxxus, and Denathrius' Venthyr followers), there is for instance a representation in Torghast, with one wing (Coldheart Interstitia for the Forsworn/Mawsworn Kyrians, Upper Reaches for Venthyr and Fracture Chambers for the Maldraxxi) and plenty of mobs. Not so for the Drust. I'm left with a feeling that the Drust were just filler content, which makes it wasted potential for a threat that has such profound and interesting lore, up to par with Mueh'zala and Helya if you ask me.
@@moscanaveia I'm actually not sure if the Drust really are servants of the Jailer or if they merely cooperated with him because they where sharing a common goal. However if they are indeed his servants and if we are going to Thros at some point the reason might well be that they are saving the Drust for another story arc. It's also absolutely possible that they where indeed filler content. Only time will tell.
The voice acting in this and the expressions on their faces are incredible. Shout out to everyone involved. Shivers, tears - I could feel the pain in their voices. Bravo!
On first experiencing this cinematic, I caught the "in the wake" bit and felt comforted in what she tried to do. However, as always, you catch all the nuances that I miss and make the cinematics more full. I so appreciate your takes on these things. Thank you!
Maybe I misunderstand their intent but I thought she was saying she sent the cascade of souls from the world tree not in a I caused the burning but in a I did save many of them since the tree was already burning and not lifting them all out of the disaster around them, even though she could have allowed more to be rescued she turned away and let it take them so the cries from Shadowlands and her sister's realm but hey how someone interpreted it is I guess up to the viewer until the writing clearly says yes or no on it from the makers of the game and that scene
Everybody: shits all about the story + its delivery Taliesin: to fully appreciate the cinematic we need to look at the covenant campaign quests that take A SOLID HOUR to complete "big enthusiatic smile"
My opinion is that the story is actually quite decent if one's expectation is not to be handed on a silver platter the meaning and implications of each event, how the characters feel about them, how the *player* ought to feel about them, but rather to have something where going more in depth, piecing together information from multiple sources is an intended part of the experience. Then again, this is evidently not what most people expect, and many things are down to personal preferences anyway (also, the overall negative sentiment surrounding WoW / Blizzard clearly affects the reception of everything regardless of the particulars).
@@Kyrrua_ You don't actually need to go in depth to understand the basics though, you just need to read more than every second word... Many of the things people complain about are really supremely obvious if one gives them the tiniest bit of thought. Going further in depth is useful for a *deeper* understanding and full appreciation, but not strictly *required*. If the sentence "In the wake of tragedy, I sent forth the cascase of souls." makes one think that Elune is saying she actively caused the burning of Teldrassil, the fault does not lie with the writers in that. That aside, we clearly have different expectations of what cinematics ought to do. Cinematics, movies, storylines, art in general can have the purpose of making one think about them, rather than spoonfeeding the audience.
@@Kyrrua_ You really don't need to go in deep... but it seems for most people you need... maybe because those people don't give a shit and don't even play the game...
I mean the obvious parallel is that Elune is the summer queen (our sun is a star), the great cycle also referring to the seasons as much as too life and death. Which would make the winter queen the naturey God of cold, darkness, and death and Elune the Naturey God of life, light and warmth, which feels pretty well conveyed here with how much colder and harder the winter queen is compared to how compassionate and emotional Elune is.
I like his analysis and there are few things he didn't really delve into deeply cause if he did it would kinda go against his stated facts. I do agree with you though. Seems as if this time he didn't pay attention to the words used lol
@@bastalam Yeah, Elune says Tyrande "must" choose, which implies the decision hasn't been made yet. Saying that it has been chosen already is... an odd interpretation.
She said "my life for hers" immediately before she failed to kill Sylvanas with her super sayian powers. The Night Warrior's power was not enough. It is limited, because it is wielded by a mortal and because Elune herself is not almighty. So pay attention to the words and to what the cinematic tells you.
Elune said "She must choose." not "She had to choose.", meaning Tyrande hasn't made a choice yet. So she didn't spare Sylvanas willingly. Hence the "My life for hers." and "Mother Moon, do not forsake me. End this." lines.
Tyrande clearly chose vengeance in that moment, so the sudden shift to renewal just feels like a retcon. Honestly, I'm disappointed in Tali for saying that perspective is "incurious".
@@karlrassmann4604 Or maybe, just maybe, she had a moment of overheating where she used up too much power and her body couldn't handle it, so her body tried to contain in and once she reached her limit it went berserk.
@@wardzer I don't know if that's exactly it, but it does sound like Elune's power is invoked only for a specific purpose (the Stonewright for revenge and let it get away from her, for example). Since Tyrande hadn't made up her mind about which she wanted Elune for more, perhaps Elune was powerless to assist her in one of those options.
I am glad we have you tali. Its fun and refreshing to have people who understand the game deeply. PS: my friend irl who has been playing the game since pandaria, is the classic skip everything andy who doesn't understand what is happening in the lore and I'm too tired of explaining the bigger picture every time. So yeah, I'm glad and thankful for your time and effort to make every other casual player understand what they are missing. 💪🏻😎👍🏻
Another possible reading of things: Tyrande didn't make the choice, Elune's vengeane could not be invoked in the shadowlands against sylvanas for the same reason she is "trespassing" in ardenweald and the Queen is surprised to see her power there. She is not supposed to be able to influence the shadowlands. Thats why all she could do was send the souls to ardenweald, and why the other night warriors (who are not living anymore) do not have the powers of the night warrior any more.
It's an interesting speculation. My own actually was that Ysera's visions from the Dream about Tyrande being vital to Ardenweald's survival, were possibly seen by Elune as well; being a deity of the same power. And as such, Elune couldn't allow Tyrande to trade her life for Sylvanas'. But Taliesin's interpretation of her subconsciously not chosing vengeance, has merit too.
the real reason is because the writers wanted the fight to happen, but needed a reason for sylvanas to still get away unharmed. There doesn't seem to be a coherent explanation justifying it though.
I just love how you two make videos like these. Your attention to detail, your infectious enthusiasm and your way with words. I don't really follow WoW content and haven't been for many years, but every so often come back to your channels for morsels like this.
Really enjoy your break down of the lore and even though I cancelled my sub for the first time in 17 years (yes 17) I still love the lore. I know you've a lot of thinking to do about your content going forward but just want to know you're appreciated.
I am so glad you guys continue to make videos and do content coverage. I personally look forward very much to your shares. And I am glad to see good on wow still and you guys represent that so much! More than you realize.
I don't. If she had killed Sylvanas during the battle for Ardenweald, there's a good chance the Jailer's attack on the Arbiter would have failed, preventing a massive risk to all life in the universe. I get that he had questionable motivations, but trading her life to remove the threat of Sylvanas was absolutely the correct choice for her to make from a strategic standpoint.
So Tyrande gets this kickass ultimate ability in BFA, its supposed to be touted as SSB level of oh snap. Fails to stop the horde in Darkshore, cuts the head off a defeated Nathanos, and acts edgy for a year and a half. Well of course Tyrande is going to give it up, she didn't do anything with it lol. The whole writing around the Night Warrior and Tyrande has been subpar, maybe Act/Blizz is looking to peddle a Tyrande night warrior book to make sense of Steve's jumbled mess.
He is a great translator. He approaches things with curiosity and positivity. I'm cynical and I think everything will suck. I like watching this channel to see how rational people behave.
Many people have always believed that Elune abandoned the Night Elves during the War of the Thorns. However, those who have read "Elegy" know that Elune did her best to help them, including offering a sweet and peaceful death to those who were not lucky enough to cross the portal to Stormwind. Knowing this, it's hard not to feel her pain in this cinematic (instead of blaming her for various unfounded reasons) Just a question: in French, you can clearly hear that Elune's "voice" is composed of Tyrande's voice + a female whisper behind. Is it the same process in English? I can't quite distinguish, and I had the impression I was hearing only Elune's real voice. And thanks for this video, I loved the comparison with the Naaru and the explanation with the wisps. You do a great job, and it's very pleasant to listen to (perfect for practicing English ^^)
Not everyone reads the books. It's probably warranted to expect the full story to be displayed ingame. The English features the same; It's clearly Tyrande's voice actress plus another voice, digitally modified to sound "whisp-like".
So Tyrande decided not to take her vengeance when it was in her hand? She went from unreasonably, earth shatteringly 'Im jumping head first into the maw, blowing open the doors of Thorghast and slaughtering everything in my path to get to Sylvanas' to 'Deep down I forgive you, I won't kill you' That seems like a HUGE and MASSIVE leap with no build up or foreshadowing. At what point did Tyrande look like she might forgive Sylvanas?
Ah yes, so we are talking here not about Elune not protecting her favorite children in any way against literal avatar of death while clearly paying attention, but just about tearing the elf souls from dying Azeroth torn by war. Not alowing them to turn into forest whisps helping to tend to dying forests of Azeroth after great tree was burn and their nation can take any help they can get. We are talking here about usuing all those dying souls as undead greenery fertilizer, because her sister is completely incompetent... But turns out they both are, and they can't do even that, they fertilized Jailer army instead. Clearly this cinematic is extremely touching, positive and causes symphathy for a noble goddess. Ah by the way she is not really a goddess, she is just a sister to incompetent questgiver now who cant even protect her own macguffin. Truly an upgrade from times of warcraft 3.
See, this is why I like these cinematic analysis with Taliesin. No knee-jerk responses, but well-crafted analysis that actually dives into all the lore factors, and analyzing of what's actually said. Naturally, Blizzard is messing up badly by making the plot so vague. It shouldn't be a puzzle to get the right understanding. But I'm glad at least this channel is putting it out there. Thanks!
When you mentioned that Elune might be fighting a battle versus the old gods in her realm, I do want to add that I remember hearing that Elune's magic is one of the only things that we know really worked versus the nightmare. Maybe that could be from experience fighting it or superiority of power, not sure though.
This is my favorite RUclips video this year. Thank you for making it! I cried watching it when I was playing the game. I love the lore of World of Warcraft and it will always be my favorite.
Love you, Tali, but that explanation for why Elune left Tyrande during the fight against Sylvanas is a huge stretch. In fact, that cinematic tries to express the opposite. The entire cinematic with that fight hammers the idea that Tyrande wants Sylvanas dead, and it at no point implies that she has second thoughts. Even her cry to Elune to "end this" shows a desperation to have her vengeance, as if she doesn't even see renewal without vengeance as a possibility. If the cinematic was supposed to leave us with doubts about Tyrande's desire for vengeance, it failed. You COULD be right about Tyrande having chosen renewal at that point, but with the lack of clear motivation they've given it'd almost feel like a retcon. I'd honestly chalk it up to poor storytelling creating a rift between a character's motivation and what the audience can perceive. And with this lack of clarity, it's kind of mean spirited to call people incurious for not seeing your perspective. Still love ya and support the channel :) Edit: Someone in the comments brought up how the phrase "She must choose" shows us that Tyrande had not yet chosen. Therefore such a choice cannot be the reason why Elune's power faded.
Maybe that's the reason Elune's power faded, Tyrande has not made a choice yet, if she was 100% sure she wanted vengeance, maybe Elune would have allowed her to kill Sylvanas, but it seems Tyrande was still conflicted?!? Maybe the quest line with Shandris had her doubt her quest for vengeance?
@@remuscroitoriu4810 I could see this being the case, which is why I say Tali COULD be right. However, a story only has as much meaning as what is perceived. The last cinematic made it clear Tyrande was 110% on board vengeance. If the writers believed she had any kind of conflict, they failed to show it to us. Again, it's totally possible Tali is right. However, if he is, that means the writers failed to set up that narrative.
@@karlrassmann4604 I agree, sometimes it seems they just change things during the development of the story, and at the same time they go out of their way to make it as cryptic as possible, but thank God we have Tali. I hope he never ceases to do these lore videos, regardless of what happens with blizz. You cannot find someone better and more enthusiastic out there than him, when it comes to wow lore
Well said Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl. I agree, that was kind of a stretch. In the cinematic itself, it seems ALL of Tyrande's attacks are attempted killing blows, lots of head lobbers. That's not the actions of someone on the fence about renewal, that's the actions of someone hellbent on murdering.
So glad you're doing this. There's too many people who don't or can't understand these lore moments because they don't get the basics of the game. They don't pay attention.
You are the best!!! Your explanation is the absolute best one yet!!!!!!!! Your ability to dig in and see all the quiet details makes this make so much more sense and powerful!!!!! Thank you for being amazing!!!!
kotick would be prime fuel for revendreth. so much pride, greed an avarice...this would overshadow even garrosh hellscream this scandal should not be forgotten or forgiven, there must be an attonement
To be honest, I'm not always the biggest fan of all of your takes on stuff WoW realted, but your Story related analysis are the best anywhere. Your willingness to see beyond the hate and toxicity creeping up on the community in the last years to find the truth behind the cinematics is what I certainly need at the moment. So, thank you so much!
And question, where the heck has Malfurion been while this mess with his wife has been going on? My husband would be staying with me, trying to talk me out of it. (as I hear the words "Tyranda, help me" from Legion, as an echo.)
@@Katsutomai I mean, if your wife who has an inherent connection to the moon is struggling with a dark power and needs to let go of negative emotions to cleanse as a sign of personal growth then I guess he picked a pretty good game to get some pointers.
there's a throwaway line at the beginning of the expansion about the political faction leaders choosing not to go to Shadowlands because they don't want to risk creating a power vacuum if they can't make it back- Tyrande wasn't supposed to go either.
Interesting, I felt like it was the complete opposite: Elune is the elder sibling which is why the Winter Queen had the expectation that Elune could and would help. The way she asked "Hey, where were you when I needed help?" and the genuine hurt in her voice sounded to me more like a younger sibling who is wondering why there older sister who has always been there for them suddenly wasn't there when they needed them most.
@@cassandramuller7337 this makes sense also. I do tend to be on the scolding side more times than not as the older one. We are all adults (I’m 35 lol) but to me they still do “dumb shit”.
This just seems like nonsense to me What would have happened if Sylvanas didn't decide to burn Teldrassil? Would Elune not send any help to the Winter Queen? It's not a very good story if its strung along by a series of happy accidents.
I think the existing soul wisps( few when comparing it to the cascade after the burning) would mysteriously dissapear, and no one will know the answer.. till now
@Episode Update except it is already established that only wild gods and loa and reborn there. the night elves souls would have been nothing more then an fuel for the winter queen. this does not stop the fact that elune did not even look into what was going on at all, and blindly tossed them to the shadowlands when she already knew they were not getting souls in the first place.
im starting to get the feeling a LOT of people really mean "write the story like im 5" when they say that the writing is bad... I cant imagine coming to the conclusion that Elune made the world tree event happen...wut lol
I agree. People only read what they want to read aka they search for things to pick on at this point. I’m always happy Tali still appreciates and discusses the lore.
Agreed. It's just an angry mob that wants to be angry and since it's a rather vocal group of people - they just perceive their haphazard views as truth.
In this case, to be fair, the momentousness of Elune's declaration makes it easy to overlook the conditioning sentence, "in the wake of tragedy". I got this idea the first time I watched it, but realised that was not it the second time around.
Big props to you, Taliesin, for giving the writers their due credit by analyzing their work, even in the wake of all this mess. As a long-time player of WoW, this cinematic is one of the biggest lore bombs to date and it had me absolutely in tears. I'm so glad you share my appreciation. You even picked up on the "Tyrande's choice" thing, which is interesting in the context of the previous cinematic. I'm still not sure that she *chose* not to kill Sylvanas, but we can have that debate another time.
I still remember how awesome was the scene from the fall of argus, at the seat of the pantheon, where the camera pointed at the titans from below as we were shown that we are lesser beings than the titans, meanwhile in the frame above the titans, at the center of the seat was a ball of arcane, which is what elune's power is pretty much all about, and probably fuels the seat of the pantheon itself. I loved how people forgot that the people behind blizzard's cinematics always think about absolutely everything in the frame and dismissed it as a glowy shiny thing. I might resub after watching this video. I always loved the lore and it's sad to see the company in such a depressing state...
Even though I've left the Blizzard family, I have to say that this cinematic is one of my top three favorite cinematics. The graphics, yes, the visuals are stunning, and /purposeful/, but it's the voice acting, for me. There's pain, anger, defeat, betrayal, relief... there is so much there that is quietly gut-wrenching. It is an absolutely beautifully well done cinematic. Beautiful in so many ways.
I live for your explanations! You explain lore to us like no one else and really communicate depths of meaning that otherwise could easily be missed or misunderstood. Yes, there might be different interpretations of meaning, but I think the point is that it prompts discussion and speculation that only makes us eager for more.
I love how you two explain things so clearly....haven't played up to the cinematic yet and figured all this out that explaining just by watching it once.
Thank you for your fantastic work in showing how great this cinematic is and the storytelling within. It has been an incredibly conflicting time as a Blizzard fan this past week and change. So seeing something positive really reminds me why I love the community and the work the team does to create these stories.
13:55 immediately got on to that , a lot of content creators missed!! Bravo!!! Yes they become wisps and she sent them to shadowlands instead! But it also presents the fact that, no first ones knew what was happening in SL.
You can get to a thirty minute video by watching tthe cinematic and knowing the lore that led up to this point. That a simple few-minutes cinematic can yield thirty minutes of discussion and delving deep, that means the cinematic is good, and not bad.
I’m glad you still decided to make this. It helps me and others like me who have stepped away from wow but still want to see the rest of the story, do so without supporting blizzard ourselves.
Don't forget Xalatath call Elune the "upstart goddess" implying they have more knowledge of her than we currently do possibly tying to your comment about Elune and galactic war. Secondly, I personally hope that the events surrounding Blizzard currently does not cause you to stop making content that's enjoyed by us, about a game I think some of us still enjoy playing.
If Blitzchung and the Hong Kong incident didn't make them stop or even pause then why would this? What they have went through is FAR worse than any Bliz employee. Tali just loves his soap box, ya know.
@@KM-fm9ms if blitzchung made you stop using blizz products you also would need to stop using apple, google and microsoft products who all cooperate the same way with the chinese goverment and tailor their products to their wishes.
One of the most important vids that you two have done. Good job. People really need to listen and read instead of jumping on the hate train, because of what they took the wrong way. Getting on the train because of Acti-Blizz being jerkoffs? Sure. But not because they got something wrong.
Wait wait wait, you used the past tense part for the teldrassil thing and I agree, Elune obviously didn't fucking orchestrate the slaughter of the night elves - but then you ignore the future tense of 'she must choose' and imply she already chose. I don't actually buy that, unfortunately. The text IS pretty clear that she hasn't chosen yet. So it then turns the Tyrande story into a bland cycle of revenge bad, which usually I'm okay with, but the reason revenge is bad is generally because it perpetuates an endless war of hatred and revenge. In Sylvanas's case, well, the whole Horde (minus the Sylvanas loyalist side which as far as I'm aware has no more writing in Shadowlands anyway) and the whole Alliance want her head. The Jailer clearly doesn't care about her well being (obviously) and let's be real, what she's done is absolutely heinous enough that it deserves retribution. Basically, no parties would be upset if Sylvanas would have died there. If Blizzard wants to say that going through with it while hopped up on night warrior power would have turned Tyrande into Sylvanas, well... I just don't buy that?
It could be implied that she must choose fully implying that she's torn bewteen the two options so neither was happening fully. Powering up still but in the same line not taking it to the finish. Powering down in a way but not being released from her invocation of elune's power. She could have been in mental limbo til her resolved leaned one way or another.
@@kloaf1131 That seems like a reach to me. You don't lay your life down on the line without conviction, generally, and when she did her whole DBZ jump after Team Rocket's blasting off again Sylvanas, she straight up told Elune my life for hers (it was some gibberish madeup language, but the official video has subtitles that say my life for hers) I mean, maybe you're right. But if that's the case they are really, really bad at communicating this stuff for your average player. I don't think you should need an hour of research and discussion to make sense of like, 6 minutes of cutscene.
@@alifewellwastedyt I don't think you need that long about it. But lore like this is entirely meant to spark discussion and thinking. Hand-fed lore is lazy writing.
@@alifewellwastedyt I'm thinking that Elune probably wanted Tyrande to make a choice after she saw what was at stake. Like you would hold a friend back from making a rash decision when they don't have all the information and are basically doing subsatnce abuse and are generally in a shitty place. I think Elune intervened this time and not others because the stakes are higher and she just lost a lot of her followers. If she can perhaps save one she'll try. Elune sounds like she's in a bad place emotionally. Except Tyrande wasn't ready to listen. I personally find it interesting that Tyrande chose to let go of hatred after she felt Elune's pain. She mentions that the tear was both hers and Elune's which implies she felt Elune's emotions while Elune "possessed" her. To me this sounds like Sylvanas wasn't the real problem: Tyrande felt abandoned by Elune (like the Winter Queen), she felt betrayed by the poerson she trusted with her life and the life of her people. Feeling that Elune actually felt as much pain as her allowed her to let go. Feeling (and hearing/seeing?) that Elune did the only thing she thought she could do made Tyrande forgive Elune for not preventing the tragedy at Teldrassil. That's why Tyrande chose renewal over vengeance. It wasn't about Sylvanas. It was about Elune. And part of me wonders if Elune perhaps also stopped her because she knew that Sylvanas wasn't the problem. Or perhaps it was just that the power she was invocing felt that this was not really her goal. Not because Tyrande already chose to let go of vengeance but because vengeance on Sylvanas was never really the issue. Tyrande just thought it was.
I just want you to know that content creators like you, Evertell, and Bellular are one of the only things making my break from WoW less painful. I have loved the story since I was 18 and playing Vanilla back in 2006 on my first NELF, and it was the lore that kept me hooked through every dip in activity or lowpoint in the lore, and when I decided I would take a break from WoW due to the lawsuit I was able to comfort myself by saying "I can keep up with the lore by watching my favorite streamers and RUclipsrs". Channels like these are a HUGE part of what made it possible for me to fully appreciate to enjoy the lore in the first place considering how spread out it is in game. You make it possible for part of me to keep living with one foot in Azeroth, if that makes sense? I know we can't make this decision for you, and you should absolutely do whatever you feel is right, but as someone who _IS_ choosing to take a step back from WoW in the wake of the recent lawsuit, I *genuinely* hope that YOU and other content creators don't feel duty bound to close up shop. For me, FFXIV is such a good game that I feel like I personally can't keep making excuses to keep forcing myself to play a game I no longer enjoy, especially with everything going on, but I acknowledge that it makes it easier for me to go and I really feel for all the people I know who still LOVE WoW and don't feel at home anywhere else feeling like they are somehow dishonoring the victims if they keep playing and paying. The story of Warcraft does not belong to the abusers, it belongs to the victims and all the innocent employees who got that story out to the world and worked their asses off for 15 years to bring an entire world to life for us. I saw a post in my legacy Wyrmest Accord FB group where someone was being shamed for taking part in a mass log off event to support the strike (they are also staying out of game to not cross the 'picket line') while their subs are still active said that she wished she could keep playing because she really relied on it to cope IRL but that there had been so much shaming of the people who had not unsubbed that she finally couldn't take it and unsubbed out of guilt. That made me furious. I told her she had nothing to feel guilty about and to please not deny herself something she loved just because of a few assholes giving the entire game a bad name unjustly, and reminded her that if the victims are not leaving, surely it is acceptable to stay and support them? Boycotts cause layoffs afterall. Realistically speaking, boycotts alone do not work. The only thing that drives change is *_PUBLIC DISCOURSE_* and *_BAD PRESS._* I truly believe that you can continue to play WoW and make content based on WoW _in tribute_ to the survivors and in spite of the dark forces that they worked under, sometimes way harder than I think any of us truly realize or appreciate, and regardless of what ActiBlizz does, so long as those people CHOOSE to keep working for them and *DEMANDING* change, I feel that it is totally fair for you to stand your ground with them and continue to demand change from within. Something I have suggested to people I know who felt guilty is simply to commit to not using the cash shop for vanity items (because they almost certainly make WAY more from that than subs), and to keep up with the news, to keep talking about the lawsuit, to keep retweeting the survivors, and actually T&E is in the unique position that you could simply decide to keep playing and being a force for good in the community, and either say you will be making videos in the future to make sure all the lawsuit news stays relevant and in the public eye to keep the pressure up, or have a page on your website where you are dedicated to TLDRin any updates for your audience. The best thing anyone with a platform can do is keep up the pressure and make sure ActiBlizz knows that we are paying attention. Everyone has to find their own way to do that, so please don't feel forced to quit, especially if WoW is something that you make your living on or even just use as a coping mechanism for how depressing life has been for the past 2 years. We need MMOs in a pandemic!
"The Winter Queen is bound to *her* counterpart in the realms of life." So others have counterparts too I guess. I wonder which one Zovaal wants to off, his own or Elune.
I'm not really sure there's a solid basis for that conclusion. Ardenweald's main purpose is facilitating the renewal of its inhabitants, sometimes literally renewing them back into the realm of life. As Sean mentioned, it is a component of a cycle. No other covenant of the Shadowlands exists as part of a cycle in the same way. In fact, every other covenant's primary focus lies in assisting souls to find their new place within the realm of death by accepting (Necrolord), atoning for (Venthyr), or letting go of (Kyrian) their path in life. No covenant but Ardenweald creates a loop which feeds back to life.
Aaah I'm so happy this video is out. I was dumbstruck that the cinematic was criticized so much when there were (to me) very obvious explanations. Especially the part about Elune being stupid was so annyoing to hear from people. Your point about Tyrande choosing not to kill Sylvanas was pretty interesting and I didn't think about that one myself, thank you!
Heard about the debate about the emerald dream, and was just rereading chronicle last night. Had to pause the video to run and find a particular quote that seems to foreshadow and support your theory; *The Dreaming World:* "Some believe that Freya wove the Emerald Dream into being from nothing. Others claim that this strange place had always existed in some form, a dream born from Azeroth's slumbering world-soul. It is said that Freya tapped into this realm and moulded what would become known as the Emerald Dream as a way to commune with the nascent titan." While it's not entirely encouraging, it does work particularly hard to leave the door open for the Emerald Dream to have already existed as they were writing it. From what we've seen, my theory is the Dream is a realm of life (and counterpoint to the shadowlands) created by the dreams of slumbering world-souls, which is how Eonar and by extension Freya initially ordered and utilised the realm to communicate with and heal Azeroth, as well as how it gives people entering it such a strong connection to the state of the world, and the nature that flourishes upon it. Another thought, Elune being related to the Emerald Dream is hinted at by moonkin druids. Druids draw power from nature, and the Emerald Dream, but one of their forms focuses on a "cycle" to draw power from, and especially utilises the moon and sun. Interesting, no?
Definitely my favourite thing is that we have likely just heard Elune / life's musical theme for the first time at the point the tear is formed. Expect to hear those elements a lot more in future
she says "I sent THE cascade of souls" - implying they were already going somewhere. The WQ confirming it was the Great Tree. I think even Tali missed that one, but got the interpretation right.
@@suzandouglass5241 absolutely THE and not "A cascade of souls" clearly means that Elune discovered the cascade of souls/burning of Teldrassil as it happened and she did not orchastrate anything
wich is no doubt, this. Elune was most likely like "oh... I can stop it but... man my sister is really in need of souls... I just can't do it" and taliesin is just shilling again :D
@@arthurhki1471 she is only confirming that her sister's answer was indeed, The Great Tree burning. She is now looking back and saying "oh, so that was you".
I think it's also notable that Elune appears certain that the souls of the Night Elves will end up in Ardenweald, which is probably based on the nature of the Night Elf traditions and way of living closer and in service of the wild.
I think it's also because Night Elves have something like a "mark" of Elune. So that contributes (well...contributed) heavily in the arbiters decision.
@@seanh1321 I agree, at the end of the day thay are her "favoured children", which doesn't mean that she prefers Night Elves, it just means that to all the races of Azeroth they are "HERS" and have her blessing :D
you have no reason to think so, just no reason, if you reffered from Warcraft 3 only, then yes, from WoW it was made realy wishywoshy with taurens, and druid class in general.
What I get from that starting line is that Winter Queen is adressing someone far above her, they pleaded for her to aid them, it's like talking to her superior but knowing that Elune won't get angry with her/strike her down. Elune restored heart of forest and sigil, that is the power she has
'In the wake of tragedy' could be refering to the tragedy unfolding in Ardenwield. If Sylvanas hadn't burned down the tree then Elune wouldn't have sent any souls to sustain Ardenwield...
Furthermore, the burning of Teldrassil doesn’t make any sense if Night Elf souls don’t normally go to the afterlife. Sylvanas was sending power to the Maw at Zovaal’s behest-so if Elune normally keeps those souls back as wisps, Zovaal would have sent her somewhere else. Unless Zovaal read Elune’s mind and knew she’d let the souls free somehow, and THAT would be terrible storytelling.
I mean, she probably means the burning of Teldrasil but this too makes sense. I mean makes more sense than the people saying "That means Elune burned the tree!" :D
Victoly Sylvanas has burned the tree not to send the souls to the Jailer but to break their hope. She didn't have the plan to burn the tree in the first place, she just wanted to kidnap Malfurion (for the same purpose to weaken their spirit) however since she failed she got emotional and pissy and yeah had a "burn them all moment" instead.
at the point of the burning of teldrassil the drought went already for years, thats a little too far in the past to say "wake" thats like blizz's soon TM levels of wake :D
Tali’s deep dives of these cinematics etc is what keeps me interested in the lore. Thanks for putting in the work! Looking forward to more lore videos!
The lore has a lot to offer in that regard. Right there with you in thanking Tali for the awesome, beautiful effort. Just wish the community was less dismissive of it, they would rather the lore be simple, straightforward, and never-changing. Right now, my only gripe with the Warcraft lore is that while they expand the themes they choose for each xpac, whole other pieces can be left to explore waiting their turn.
I'd argue that while "in the wake of" certainly indicates it is happening after an event, I think it's a bit more specific than that - namely, I'd say it more accurately means "as a consequence of". This is important because it more clearly emphasizes the events and clarifies what led to what. Elune's statement is "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and in the wake of tragedy sent forth a cascade of souls to sustain you." You're interpreting the "tragedy" as the burning of Teldrassil, but I think the "tragedy" is the anima drought. If you put in the words "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and as a consequence of Teldrassil, sent for a cascade of souls to sustain you" it comes across rather...opportunistic I suppose. Somewhat flippant. It seems like Teldrassil was a convenience. But if you put it as "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and as a consequence of the anima drought, sent for a cascade of souls to sustain you, it ties it together much better - the objects in the sentence are all consistent, and I think it more clearly shows the weight Elune gives to maintaining the cycle/balance of life and death in general, and Ardenweald/the heart of the forest in particular. It clearly ties the cries and pain of the Winter Queen in the face of the anima drought to the actions of Elune. Elune may not have known exactly what was wrong, but she clearly understands how Ardenweald depends on anima. To me this is the clearest and most significant sign we have received yet in the story that what the jailer wants to do is really, really bad. Yes, the Winter Queen sacrificed groves and wildseeds and anima to sustain the heart of the forest and keep the jailer bound, but Elune sacrificed her "favored" children to try to help, even when there have clearly been differences between her and the Winter Queen, even without her being present to witness the anima drought herself - she cares so deeply, on a personal level and on a cosmic level, that she understands while horrific and terrible, for the greater good, she could not save Teldrassil. Honestly, I would be surprised if a character doesn't make a point that if Ardenweald fell and the Jailer was loosed, there would be no hope for peace for those night elf souls anyways. It's a perfect example of the divine perspective gods have in their stories. She is fallible, she seems brash at times, quick to anger - but she is also clearly noble, protective, and humble as well. I eagerly await for more Elune in the lore.
Unsurprising that you would go to bat for this terrible plot. Here's what people are actually mad about and not convenient strawmen for you to argue against: Elune is negligent for Teldrassil not because she set it up because she could've done more to prevent it. Instead she played favorites with Malfurion to prevent *him* from dying but just put every other elf, including *children* to sleep so they wouldn't die in pain from being burned to death. It's arguable that even her small interactions with Azeroth turned the tide in multiple battles, including the War of Eternity. So why didn't she do more to intervene here? Hey, some crazy Starfall magic like what Tyrande used to be capable of would've been amazing. Hell, why not invoke the Night Warrior before it got that bad? No, Elune just saves Malfurion so Tyrande can run off with him and let her people be - in her words - occupied as painlessly as possible. Night elves to exist to get fridged. Blizzard didn't think about the ramifications of the scene they wrote and are constantly trying to walk back what they wrote. This 'renewal not vengeance' narrative is them trying to excuse Sylvanas' involvement. Hey, don't worry! All the night elves will be reborn with the Winter Queens magic so it's like nothing ever happened! Yaaaaay! It was all a dream! Nothing matters! No one has to be held accountable for the War of Thorns and the burning of civilians including children! Renewal, not vengeance guys. Oh, by the way. Let's take that to its logical conclusion. Let's have Sylvanas forgive Arthas for what he did. :) After all, he wasn't in control of his actions just as Sylvanas isn't culpable for anything she did in the past. Renewal not vengeance guys. :)
The whole, "Elune stopped Saurfang killing Malfurion" being treated like established fact is so weird. It is a complete misreading of the tone of the shirt story. There is no suggestion at ALL that Elune is powerful enough or has the inclinations step in and stop an invading army by herself. Her vulnerability in this cinematic only solidifies that
@@TaliesinEvitel How is it hard to imagine Elune intervening? Didn't she flat out make Tyrande invulnerable at one point? It isn't as if she did nothing for all of the War of Thorns. She put the elves to sleep to die painlessly. Why didn't she put the invading army to sleep? That probably would've been helpful. Can't do that though, sister needs souls. If Night elves were made aware of this, and if this game was written by competent people, they'd abandon her en masse. I would be *offended* if I was a Night elf and Elune told me she favored me.
When i first watched this cinematic is was incredibly happy and hyped over it, i watched it over 5 times in a row. So i was deeply shocked, when i saw an almost exclusively negative response to it online. So THANK YOU @Taliesin & Evitel for putting out this amazing video analysis to clarify what´s happening and hopefully quell the onslaught of negativity that is curently happening over it. Love your content, it never fails to put a smile on me
Assuming current situation in blizzard, they will go all-in and Elune will be revealed not several years later but the next patch (being attacked by Zoval)
@@maxxamillion528 Yes there will be. These comments about the end of wow etc. are getting borring. I get that its the "great" sensation this lawsuit....But for average player who likes to do little bit of PVP there and few world quests or run M+ nothing has changed.
@@fikuss9 nothing to do with the case, it's the quality of the content that will kill it. As more players try other games they realise they are way better MMOs out there, that are much, much greater value for money . Other games have moved on, WoW has moved backwards.
I loved this so much. It actually had me in tears because of the remorse in her voice and made me think of Ysera's death and Elune taking her and sending her to sanctuary. With everything that has unfolded in this patch, I am worried I'll go through a box of tissues when Christie's Sylvanas book comes out! Thanks for breaking this bit of lore questing down a bit more.
The fact Lady Moonberry did what usually takes the average Venthyr EONS to do, really shows to me how seemingly inefficient the Venthyr "Atonement" process is. But that's just me.
I’m so glad you also understood what the cinematic said! Obviously if most people misunderstood blizzard should’ve used a different vocabulary but so many people don’t know what “In the wake of” means and it’s like UGH! Thank you for having a brain as always!
Thank you for letting me realise that's it's okay to like this cinematic! It's so deteriorating logging onto social media, seeing people flame it and being afraid to comment how I actually thought it was good. Danuser is setting up the future of WoW while simultaneously tieing up loose ends that Afrasiabi created by artificially extending Metzen's story that was essentially finished in Legion. Keep up the great content!
Saddened to see this video overshadowed by recent news. This was a fantastic cinematic and one of your best breakdown videos. This should be a moment where my love for WoW reaches its peak (what lifelong night elf player wouldn't be excited to finally hear the voice of Elune?). But alas, its just not the right time. Love your videos and will continue to be a supporter, both on RUclips and Patreon.
16:50 Taliesin, the fact that there is an anima drought in the first place is reason to believe something suspicious is going on. Unless Elune has no knowledge of how the machine of death works, it is systematically impossible for an anima drought to happen unless something went wrong. Did Elune just think anything relating to nature stopped dying and going to Ardenweald???
Or maybe she there are other dieties like Elune that "stopped" other souls from dying , similar to how she did with making Night Elfes into wisps. From her perspective she just herd her sister's cries for help and she offered what she tought was a helping hand without looking into it.
@@Phoenixillusion18 hear her feelings but can't talk. Come on man he is gasping for straws here. How would WQ know her sister is helping? Go on feeling radar? Better yet if they are from different realms why would WQ even ask her for help? If you apply some logic to this messed up story it falls apart very easy. The whole eternal ones not knowing what is going on in their own realm is by far the stupidest plot I've seen so far. If this cinematic proved anything its how easy it was to make elune not look like an incompetent idiot. She could simply send and avatar or an agent to SL. Don't tell me that can't be done cause titans, burning legion and light did it already, let alone dread lords. Edit Btw I'm not trying to attack you or anything but pointing out some valid point.
@@bastalam well look at how often the Titans agents they send get rogue and turn against their masters. I as titan would not trust one of my servants to be reliable.
@@williampaulsinghharika2627 I'm not quite sure what you are going for here. Given that Elune can out right possess the said agent/manifest through them the likelihood of what you said happening is very slim. If anything Tyrande should have been used as she was there already and possessed Elune's power.
@@bastalam but Tyrande went there at the beginning of Shadowlands, so Elune did not yet have an agent there as far as we know. Only her former nightwarriors who all seem to have broken all connections to her, after her power killed them. The stonewright even despises her.
Was waiting for this one since Noble mentioned your take on the subject. Exactly how i felt about this from the first watching. A voice actors did excelent job telling us the feelings behind the words. I felt the shivers. Well done. Realy sad its overshadowed by horrible peoples actions at Blizzard.
Taliesin and Evitel, the Mr and Mrs. Rogers of WoW lore, allowing a dumb old man like me, after having experienced the cutscene myself and just sitting there slack jawed, to come back here, listen to their show and *actually* understand what I had seen before. I love your work and hope that there will be many more videos with you!
Couldn’t “The Great Tree” also be Nordrassil? Perhaps Elune made the wisps answer Malfurion’s call (he did use the Horn of Cenarius, who is a child of Elune) at the end of WC3: RoC. The World Tree was destroyed and Nelves lost their immortality. They could now die and be sent to the Shadowlands. They gives a LOT more souls to Ardenweald and avoids any issues about culpability for Teldrassil.
had the same thoughts about.... The Great Tree... and time runs different to the planes. But even to the cliffhanging story puzzling i guess in this case the obvious one is meant. Actual storyboards do miss more and more old facts... best example now the fact, that Jaina lost her memory she last met Uther @ Icecrown and NOT @ Stratholme -.-
@@normanbates7373 Not quite sure what you mean about Jaina and Uther but I had some more thoughts about it being Nordrassil. Elune says to the WQ that she did hear her plea, which only came after the anima drought. The anima drought only happened after/around the EN raid (can't remember exactly when). Therefore, unless time runs backwards a bit, Elune could only be referring to Teldrassil, not Nordrassil. Damn, ruined my own theory.
Love the analysis at the start at the comparisment between how a being like Xera and Elune speaks. Was really waiting for your analysis on this one, checked out belular as well, and some arguments/comments:
13:30 Elune not being responsible for the burning. I agree and don't believe that's the story they want to tell, but the cutscene does not shoot down the idea because of how vague it is. 'In the wake of tragedy' does not mean she didn't cause the tragedy. "Even in this dark hour, they would say, Elune still watches over us. And that was almost certainly true, wasn’t it? Elune had intervened. Perhaps she had even stayed Saurfang’s killing blow."
15:50 SPOILERS Next week you'll find out that the Archon and others close to her were aware of the drought and kept their mouth shut. Kalisthene: "My orders were to keep the aspirants training, to bide our time until the drought passed. I was not to tell them that every single soul was sent straight to the maw, that the shadowlands had broken down." Still fair to say that Elune wasn't aware of this. She just knew there was a drought and send souls to help without questioning why there was a drought.
Don't blame Elune for that, gods can be dumb... but why are the night elves oke with this?
23:30 That's a big self insert on the level of Sylvanas passed the kill of Malfurion to Saurfang to test his loyalty.
This is a Tyrande that
told thrall 'don't talk to me until you bring me the banshee's head to
I'm jumping in the maw to
you go save the spirits of our people, i'm on the hunt to
I'm here banshee queen, time for revenge. I'm ready to trade my life for yours. But somewhere in between, in her mind without showing any sign of it she figured ehhhhh nevermind?!
There's a chapter of storytelling missing for the night warrior where she flows into forgiveness making this 'choice' fall flat on its face + no recognition for what Elune did or didn't do for the night elves.
My thought was that her choice meant holding onto Elune's power to continue to seek revenge, or let it go in order to allow Elune and the Winter Queen to work together to save the rest of the night elves souls. And the presumably, the latter seemed like a more worthwhile pursuit to Tyrande. Maybe.
I do agree that the whole thing was too vague. After all, people are clearly having different understandings here. That is a problem.
Big agree on this. What I find very lacking in this entire storyline is insight into Tyrande's thought process and reasoning. I want to know why she chose renewal when she was so hell bent on vengeance before. Would also be great to see both Tyrande and other Night Elven characters like Shandris have some proper dialogue about Elune and what they mean to her in the wake of all this - the brief dialogue that is had afterwards don't really say much about what they are thinking other than "her voice was beautiful" and "we were both sad".
YES Nobbel thank you. I agree with all your comments. I wish they would have handled this story with a bit more grace, time, and forward planning. Tyrande went from super-sayan flying at Sylvanas for the kill to "meh, let's choose forgiveness" in the blink of an eye. That was a fumble, in my opinion. I love the WoW story, i love the writers, I'm sure Christie's Sylvanas book is going to be excellent. But I'm just a little disappointed and tired of all the unanswered questions / expectations being subverted.
Love to see the lore invested youtubers bash heads! Don't mean that negativly. Hope Tali makes a reply to this. You both are so deeply invested in the lore so its interesting watch two different people on it than everyone being more focused on the shot show going on these days and claiming because of it, everything related to blizz is trash.
I think with the revenge is like when you seek something in real life and until you don't have it you look for it and seek it. Then you receive what you wanted and it becomes irrelevant really fast. It doesn't have to be big relevation, but something just deep inside which just told her basically "killing sylvanas won't bring you peace"
I think the reason why Elune is so tired has to do with all the boomkins being meta right now. It's hard work making all those star surges happen :)
one of my boomkin guildies pulled a 4.66 MILLION starsurge in Torghast recently O_O (I wasn't there so no idea every power that went into that). Apparently he deleted the Adamant Vaults boss so effectively it took the game several seconds to realize the boss was dead XD
pewpewpew
@@NinjaFlibble game: excuse me but what the fuck
As taliesan said the link of elune involved in the great cycle and eonar holding a 'piece' of the realms of life through the emeral dream my mind hit a very interesting thought. Is elune the world soul?
My favourite thing unsaid in this cinematic is that there are no Kyrian Night Warriors since they would have forgotten that same sacrifice.
Good point. Hadn't even thought of that.
also, unless I'm wrong, invoking the Night Warrior is about vengeance. The type of people that go to the Kyrian would not be about taking vengeance but getting justice.
@@NinjaFlibble Not all Night Warriors have such a negative motivation determine their paths. Talk to Thiernax again on your Night Fae toons, and he will remark not how he was wrong with his choice or what he did with Elune's power, but ruing insteaed the fact that sharing the burden with Qadarin cost his husband's life as well. So they don't all burn out on their quest for vengeance. I think that a Night Warrior could very well make the unthinkable choice of invoking Elune for purely selfless reasons, and be spent in their quest for justice knowing full well and embracing the destiny that was set for them, uncorrupted in their purpose. Such a Night Warrior might well go to Bastion. But on arriving, they would still be encouraged to purge their memories as happens to all Kyrians.
@@NinjaFlibble That is explicitly wrong. The Night Warrior is the aspect of justice and vengeance can be justice. These two things are not mutually exclusive. Vindication, retribution, these are asll ways that peace of mind can be achieved, which are all part of Elune's whole shtique; Knowing when to fight, knowing when to die fighting, knowing when the live to fight another day and knowing when to live to live in peace.
Sylvanas murdered uncountable innocents. Her death is justice for the night elves and I don't think you can deny that. The difference between justice and vengeance often seems arbitrary in this setting; The only difference is the presentation and window dressing most of the time.
I don't think a person not remember they're a night warrior wouldn't matter, they don't have to know for someone else to know, it just makes them a little useless without the knowledge that they were so why bother going there
Nah the best part is when Moonberry starts singing and Cudgelface is like : "We don't do that here" :D
Anxiously singing "Don't be suspicious! Don't.. be..". Yup, whenever Moonberry is at the helm of a quest arc I know I'm going to have fun.
Infinity War reference was my first thought. I loved it.
I laughed so hard when I heard it. Loved it!
I love the nightfae but I cannot stand Moonberry!
I swear to God Tali, without you explaining all these cinematics I wouldn't understand anything about the lore
Yes! THANK YOU!
I was worried if this video would come at all, considering everything that's going on. Talie's "translations" (as I call 'em) make understanding WoW lore so much easier and more enjoyable to me.
Some might consider that a problem with the writing, especially since a lot of what he says in the video is just his inference, interpretation, or speculation.
@@toasty_goat yerp
This is just what I was thinking. In-game exposition could and should be doing the storytelling and making the connections here.
and thats how you know that the lore is so poorly portrayed - that you need youtubers that know the devs to explain what they should have explained through their cinematics. When u dont understand what's happening, are confused or "would understand anything about the lore" as u put it, you know its being put forth in a terrible way. They COULD make it clearer, but they like the arbitrary discussion it creates on the internet and prefer that over good story telling
I am glad that even though Elune was using Tyrande as a vessel to communicate with her sister, the voice was not Tyrande's but her own. Ok after hearing it a little more, it does sound like it's a combination of Tyrande's voice and Elune's. So possibly two different voice actresses.
@Nathan Taffijn The vast majority of voice actors are not vocal chameleons like Mel Blanc or the few other names we all know. Most who alter their voices for rroles are still quite recognizable as the same people.
In the german version at least i can tell it's Tyrandes Voice with a fancy filter over it to symbolize that Elune is speaking through her- so idk :shrug:
Y'all heard of voice manipulation in post-production?
@@twelvezeros This, I mostly hear Tyrande's VO with heavy editing for getting the reverb, echo and stuff.
GoGoGoGoGoGoGo did Bobby step down yet ?
I just watched this cinematic and I thought to myself "Boy I sure wonder what Taliesin thinks" right as this dropped into my inbox
"How Taliesin will turn it into greatest cinematic in history".
@@Dooger414 Of course, any, like from N'Zoth raid ending cinematic.
In the German Version, elune does not take credibility of the burning. But for the sending(not preventing) the souls to the shadowland.
Edit: Should have waited 20 sec for your explanation xD. its 100% right
She also doesn't take credit for the genocide in the english. "In the wake of tragedy, I sent forth cascade of souls.", the meaning is simple, she knew her people had been massacred and decided to send their souls to Ardenweald. And before you ask why she did not stop it, she is a goddess, not some trash picker. Also, she actually said "in the wake of a tragedy", the subtitles are wrong. That 'a' makes a lot of difference.
I got the feeling the German synchronization is generally a lot more clear, or at least less ambiguous.
In the raid cinematic for example,
Sylvanas says: „I will never serve AGAIN“ which makes a whole lot more sense.
I haven't played for little bit more than a year now, won't do so even less with all that is going on, but I'm always glad to be following the story alongside this channel, you guys keep my love for this universe alive, thank you!
Same I quit wow after Legion.
I personally I feel like I can't justify paying $60 for the expansion than give them another $15 to keep playing. It's like buying a toy and than you have to pay Mattel money to play with it every day.
@@boneshaman8912 60$ and then 15$ per month or 155.88$ per year. Make the expansion cycle 2 years and we paid 371.76$ for an expansion that provided less than Witcher 3 Hearts of Stone dlc...
Eh real life drama should never effect why or why not to play a game but yea it's a little zzz.
@@archaontheeverchosen7980 If that's how you feel about it, then that's fine too. I wouldn't say "never" because it really depends on the person
Bliztards hate lore
When Tyrande speaks to Shandris, they were both overtaken with emotion on being that close to their goddess. This was a spiritual moment for them. Another thing catching my eye was before and after speaking to available NPCs, things similar to the old gods were mentioned A LOT. Thiernax & Qadarin especially. Plus we left that lovely void seed in the Emerald Dream back in Legion.
There’s a piece of dialogue in the Heart Of the Forest after this. Tyrande speaks to a night elf soul, and in it mentions elunes power did not leave her, implying she still has the power of the night warrior.
I hope so?
Tyrande is Elune's High Priestess, though. Hasn't she always had access to Elune's power?
@@opallise if I remember the dialogue right it implied it was still night warrior power not just priestess powers. At least I hope that’s the case lol
I'm surprised Taliesin didn't find and discuss this. I found the emote from the Winter Queen after the exchange the most enticing bit.
Not just any soul, but the one who sings the elegy at the end of the Elegy short story.
Character closes eyes.
Taliesin: This is a call back.
I already miss that Elune-ish, night sky look. This looked so awesome.
everyday after work i check your channel. it is literally the only show i watch. hoping for the next episode to come out.
this also explains the weird repeatable quest we kept getting as night fae to go and collect more and more of the night elf souls from the maw (different to the torghast souls) its a shame those quests were just weirdly floating out there with nothing going on
I think a lot of player anger can also be explained by the fact that non-Nightfae actually get no info about all this whatsoever until this questline and cinematic because our queslines before that actually delivered zero info about any of this.
@@HH-hd7nd That's something that is quite striking. Some content is so fundational (like the Bolvar quests to rescue our leaders from Torghast) that should be overarching regardless of Covenant choice. I think this bit should be part of it (up to and including Ysera's requests for night elf souls from the Maw), and I really think Ardenweald's campaign as a whole would have benefitted from it. Each zone's pre-covenant choice questline sets up an enemy that is sommehow connected to the Maw and the Jailer, but the only zone where that enemy goes nowhere is Ardenwewald. When playing through the Ardenweald covenant campaign, the lack of focus is really glaring and in the end, the only plot point explored during that campaign that does not get a satisfactory resolution is the Drust subplot, when it should have been the main focus in my opinion
@@moscanaveia Actually I'm not sure how the Drust are connected to the Jailer. Maybe Thros was his original zone and we go there in 9.2, who knows.
@@HH-hd7nd Remains to be seen, but with the way the Ardenweald campaign was written, the "resolution" of the Drust arc was quite unsatisfying. And it's especially annoying because it is the object of the final chapter on said campaign. Of all the servants of the Jailer (the Forsworn of Lysonia and Devos, the traitors from Maldraxxus, and Denathrius' Venthyr followers), there is for instance a representation in Torghast, with one wing (Coldheart Interstitia for the Forsworn/Mawsworn Kyrians, Upper Reaches for Venthyr and Fracture Chambers for the Maldraxxi) and plenty of mobs. Not so for the Drust. I'm left with a feeling that the Drust were just filler content, which makes it wasted potential for a threat that has such profound and interesting lore, up to par with Mueh'zala and Helya if you ask me.
@@moscanaveia I'm actually not sure if the Drust really are servants of the Jailer or if they merely cooperated with him because they where sharing a common goal.
However if they are indeed his servants and if we are going to Thros at some point the reason might well be that they are saving the Drust for another story arc.
It's also absolutely possible that they where indeed filler content. Only time will tell.
The voice acting in this and the expressions on their faces are incredible. Shout out to everyone involved. Shivers, tears - I could feel the pain in their voices. Bravo!
On first experiencing this cinematic, I caught the "in the wake" bit and felt comforted in what she tried to do. However, as always, you catch all the nuances that I miss and make the cinematics more full. I so appreciate your takes on these things. Thank you!
Maybe I misunderstand their intent but I thought she was saying she sent the cascade of souls from the world tree not in a I caused the burning but in a I did save many of them since the tree was already burning and not lifting them all out of the disaster around them, even though she could have allowed more to be rescued she turned away and let it take them so the cries from Shadowlands and her sister's realm but hey how someone interpreted it is I guess up to the viewer until the writing clearly says yes or no on it from the makers of the game and that scene
I wish we'd gotten the option to have our NEs get that galaxy look after the quest like we got the night warrior eyes
Make it a chain quest... Like the green fire. But this being blizzard you won't see that.
Everybody: shits all about the story + its delivery
Taliesin: to fully appreciate the cinematic we need to look at the covenant campaign quests that take A SOLID HOUR to complete "big enthusiatic smile"
Yeah, most people that complain don't even played the game.
My opinion is that the story is actually quite decent if one's expectation is not to be handed on a silver platter the meaning and implications of each event, how the characters feel about them, how the *player* ought to feel about them, but rather to have something where going more in depth, piecing together information from multiple sources is an intended part of the experience.
Then again, this is evidently not what most people expect, and many things are down to personal preferences anyway (also, the overall negative sentiment surrounding WoW / Blizzard clearly affects the reception of everything regardless of the particulars).
@@taederias1804 if you need to go in deep depth to understand a cinematic. You've failed your cinematic...
@@Kyrrua_ You don't actually need to go in depth to understand the basics though, you just need to read more than every second word... Many of the things people complain about are really supremely obvious if one gives them the tiniest bit of thought. Going further in depth is useful for a *deeper* understanding and full appreciation, but not strictly *required*. If the sentence "In the wake of tragedy, I sent forth the cascase of souls." makes one think that Elune is saying she actively caused the burning of Teldrassil, the fault does not lie with the writers in that.
That aside, we clearly have different expectations of what cinematics ought to do. Cinematics, movies, storylines, art in general can have the purpose of making one think about them, rather than spoonfeeding the audience.
@@Kyrrua_ You really don't need to go in deep... but it seems for most people you need... maybe because those people don't give a shit and don't even play the game...
I mean the obvious parallel is that Elune is the summer queen (our sun is a star), the great cycle also referring to the seasons as much as too life and death. Which would make the winter queen the naturey God of cold, darkness, and death and Elune the Naturey God of life, light and warmth, which feels pretty well conveyed here with how much colder and harder the winter queen is compared to how compassionate and emotional Elune is.
Whenever Elune speaks, i close my eyes and fantasize about a Tortollan Granny speaking and that, makes me happy.
23:45 I would actually believe it if she didn’t literally said “My life for hers”.
Except for this, great analysis as ever thanks!
I like his analysis and there are few things he didn't really delve into deeply cause if he did it would kinda go against his stated facts. I do agree with you though. Seems as if this time he didn't pay attention to the words used lol
@@bastalam Yeah, Elune says Tyrande "must" choose, which implies the decision hasn't been made yet. Saying that it has been chosen already is... an odd interpretation.
She said "my life for hers" immediately before she failed to kill Sylvanas with her super sayian powers. The Night Warrior's power was not enough. It is limited, because it is wielded by a mortal and because Elune herself is not almighty. So pay attention to the words and to what the cinematic tells you.
@@moscanaveia Elune’s true powers is yet to be seen but yeah, it could be that it wasn’t enough but, we were talking about something else 🤣
@@Massivecow1337 Yeah well but the fight with Sylvanas happened before, would you suggest that she had a change of mind?
Elune said "She must choose." not "She had to choose.", meaning Tyrande hasn't made a choice yet. So she didn't spare Sylvanas willingly. Hence the "My life for hers." and "Mother Moon, do not forsake me. End this." lines.
My guess is Elune was all like "nah girl, take your time, don't be stupid"
@@wardzer Elune has such a complicated relationship with the concept of free will.
Tyrande clearly chose vengeance in that moment, so the sudden shift to renewal just feels like a retcon. Honestly, I'm disappointed in Tali for saying that perspective is "incurious".
@@karlrassmann4604 Or maybe, just maybe, she had a moment of overheating where she used up too much power and her body couldn't handle it, so her body tried to contain in and once she reached her limit it went berserk.
@@wardzer I don't know if that's exactly it, but it does sound like Elune's power is invoked only for a specific purpose (the Stonewright for revenge and let it get away from her, for example). Since Tyrande hadn't made up her mind about which she wanted Elune for more, perhaps Elune was powerless to assist her in one of those options.
So far in Shadowlands, Ardenweald has contained my favorite storylines.
Can I just say, her makeup. Stunning. I live.
Yasssss Queen
Evi or Elune?
@@Carl5156 Evi is Elune confirmed
I am glad we have you tali.
Its fun and refreshing to have people who understand the game deeply.
PS: my friend irl who has been playing the game since pandaria, is the classic skip everything andy who doesn't understand what is happening in the lore and I'm too tired of explaining the bigger picture every time.
So yeah, I'm glad and thankful for your time and effort to make every other casual player understand what they are missing. 💪🏻😎👍🏻
Another possible reading of things: Tyrande didn't make the choice, Elune's vengeane could not be invoked in the shadowlands against sylvanas for the same reason she is "trespassing" in ardenweald and the Queen is surprised to see her power there. She is not supposed to be able to influence the shadowlands. Thats why all she could do was send the souls to ardenweald, and why the other night warriors (who are not living anymore) do not have the powers of the night warrior any more.
It's an interesting speculation. My own actually was that Ysera's visions from the Dream about Tyrande being vital to Ardenweald's survival, were possibly seen by Elune as well; being a deity of the same power. And as such, Elune couldn't allow Tyrande to trade her life for Sylvanas'. But Taliesin's interpretation of her subconsciously not chosing vengeance, has merit too.
Tyrande Night Warrior did a lot of killing in the Shadowlands before engaging Sylvanas. Why could she?
the real reason is because the writers wanted the fight to happen, but needed a reason for sylvanas to still get away unharmed. There doesn't seem to be a coherent explanation justifying it though.
I just love how you two make videos like these. Your attention to detail, your infectious enthusiasm and your way with words. I don't really follow WoW content and haven't been for many years, but every so often come back to your channels for morsels like this.
Malorne walks up to Tyrande: "Hey. Got 20 minutes?"
I'm sure Rule 34 artists are on it, haha.
love how you go beyond expectations. you still find angles to explain stuff without joining everyone on their hate shitstorm
Really enjoy your break down of the lore and even though I cancelled my sub for the first time in 17 years (yes 17) I still love the lore.
I know you've a lot of thinking to do about your content going forward but just want to know you're appreciated.
I am so glad you guys continue to make videos and do content coverage. I personally look forward very much to your shares. And I am glad to see good on wow still and you guys represent that so much! More than you realize.
I was screaming at my screen "REVENGE CHOOSE REVENGE!" now I feel bad about it.
😆
I don't. If she had killed Sylvanas during the battle for Ardenweald, there's a good chance the Jailer's attack on the Arbiter would have failed, preventing a massive risk to all life in the universe. I get that he had questionable motivations, but trading her life to remove the threat of Sylvanas was absolutely the correct choice for her to make from a strategic standpoint.
So Tyrande gets this kickass ultimate ability in BFA, its supposed to be touted as SSB level of oh snap. Fails to stop the horde in Darkshore, cuts the head off a defeated Nathanos, and acts edgy for a year and a half. Well of course Tyrande is going to give it up, she didn't do anything with it lol. The whole writing around the Night Warrior and Tyrande has been subpar, maybe Act/Blizz is looking to peddle a Tyrande night warrior book to make sense of Steve's jumbled mess.
Now that I have abandoned wow due to blizz stuff, I'm still happy to have Tali as my liaison to the story
He is a great translator. He approaches things with curiosity and positivity. I'm cynical and I think everything will suck. I like watching this channel to see how rational people behave.
@@mugsgame_1526 yup it's better to have a considered and curious voice on the matter as opposed to most people's knee jerk reaction
agreed, even if the story has been terrible and the characters treated without a modicum of respect
Many people have always believed that Elune abandoned the Night Elves during the War of the Thorns. However, those who have read "Elegy" know that Elune did her best to help them, including offering a sweet and peaceful death to those who were not lucky enough to cross the portal to Stormwind.
Knowing this, it's hard not to feel her pain in this cinematic (instead of blaming her for various unfounded reasons)
Just a question: in French, you can clearly hear that Elune's "voice" is composed of Tyrande's voice + a female whisper behind. Is it the same process in English? I can't quite distinguish, and I had the impression I was hearing only Elune's real voice.
And thanks for this video, I loved the comparison with the Naaru and the explanation with the wisps. You do a great job, and it's very pleasant to listen to (perfect for practicing English ^^)
Not everyone reads the books. It's probably warranted to expect the full story to be displayed ingame.
The English features the same; It's clearly Tyrande's voice actress plus another voice, digitally modified to sound "whisp-like".
So Tyrande decided not to take her vengeance when it was in her hand? She went from unreasonably, earth shatteringly 'Im jumping head first into the maw, blowing open the doors of Thorghast and slaughtering everything in my path to get to Sylvanas' to 'Deep down I forgive you, I won't kill you'
That seems like a HUGE and MASSIVE leap with no build up or foreshadowing. At what point did Tyrande look like she might forgive Sylvanas?
Ah yes, so we are talking here not about Elune not protecting her favorite children in any way against literal avatar of death while clearly paying attention, but just about tearing the elf souls from dying Azeroth torn by war. Not alowing them to turn into forest whisps helping to tend to dying forests of Azeroth after great tree was burn and their nation can take any help they can get. We are talking here about usuing all those dying souls as undead greenery fertilizer, because her sister is completely incompetent... But turns out they both are, and they can't do even that, they fertilized Jailer army instead. Clearly this cinematic is extremely touching, positive and causes symphathy for a noble goddess. Ah by the way she is not really a goddess, she is just a sister to incompetent questgiver now who cant even protect her own macguffin. Truly an upgrade from times of warcraft 3.
See, this is why I like these cinematic analysis with Taliesin. No knee-jerk responses, but well-crafted analysis that actually dives into all the lore factors, and analyzing of what's actually said. Naturally, Blizzard is messing up badly by making the plot so vague. It shouldn't be a puzzle to get the right understanding. But I'm glad at least this channel is putting it out there. Thanks!
When you mentioned that Elune might be fighting a battle versus the old gods in her realm, I do want to add that I remember hearing that Elune's magic is one of the only things that we know really worked versus the nightmare. Maybe that could be from experience fighting it or superiority of power, not sure though.
Tali.. Your love for this game is palpable.. Thank you.. Keep it up!
This is my favorite RUclips video this year. Thank you for making it! I cried watching it when I was playing the game. I love the lore of World of Warcraft and it will always be my favorite.
Love you, Tali, but that explanation for why Elune left Tyrande during the fight against Sylvanas is a huge stretch. In fact, that cinematic tries to express the opposite. The entire cinematic with that fight hammers the idea that Tyrande wants Sylvanas dead, and it at no point implies that she has second thoughts. Even her cry to Elune to "end this" shows a desperation to have her vengeance, as if she doesn't even see renewal without vengeance as a possibility. If the cinematic was supposed to leave us with doubts about Tyrande's desire for vengeance, it failed.
You COULD be right about Tyrande having chosen renewal at that point, but with the lack of clear motivation they've given it'd almost feel like a retcon. I'd honestly chalk it up to poor storytelling creating a rift between a character's motivation and what the audience can perceive. And with this lack of clarity, it's kind of mean spirited to call people incurious for not seeing your perspective.
Still love ya and support the channel :)
Edit: Someone in the comments brought up how the phrase "She must choose" shows us that Tyrande had not yet chosen. Therefore such a choice cannot be the reason why Elune's power faded.
Well said! Love u Tali and Evi!
Maybe that's the reason Elune's power faded, Tyrande has not made a choice yet, if she was 100% sure she wanted vengeance, maybe Elune would have allowed her to kill Sylvanas, but it seems Tyrande was still conflicted?!? Maybe the quest line with Shandris had her doubt her quest for vengeance?
@@remuscroitoriu4810 I could see this being the case, which is why I say Tali COULD be right. However, a story only has as much meaning as what is perceived. The last cinematic made it clear Tyrande was 110% on board vengeance. If the writers believed she had any kind of conflict, they failed to show it to us.
Again, it's totally possible Tali is right. However, if he is, that means the writers failed to set up that narrative.
@@karlrassmann4604 I agree, sometimes it seems they just change things during the development of the story, and at the same time they go out of their way to make it as cryptic as possible, but thank God we have Tali. I hope he never ceases to do these lore videos, regardless of what happens with blizz. You cannot find someone better and more enthusiastic out there than him, when it comes to wow lore
Well said Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarl. I agree, that was kind of a stretch. In the cinematic itself, it seems ALL of Tyrande's attacks are attempted killing blows, lots of head lobbers. That's not the actions of someone on the fence about renewal, that's the actions of someone hellbent on murdering.
So glad you're doing this. There's too many people who don't or can't understand these lore moments because they don't get the basics of the game. They don't pay attention.
I love your positive vibes, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos, but especially the analysis! :)
You are the best!!! Your explanation is the absolute best one yet!!!!!!!! Your ability to dig in and see all the quiet details makes this make so much more sense and powerful!!!!! Thank you for being amazing!!!!
blizzard's message: "forgive and forget"
no.
kotick would be prime fuel for revendreth. so much pride, greed an avarice...this would overshadow even garrosh hellscream
this scandal should not be forgotten or forgiven, there must be an attonement
To be honest, I'm not always the biggest fan of all of your takes on stuff WoW realted, but your Story related analysis are the best anywhere. Your willingness to see beyond the hate and toxicity creeping up on the community in the last years to find the truth behind the cinematics is what I certainly need at the moment. So, thank you so much!
And question, where the heck has Malfurion been while this mess with his wife has been going on? My husband would be staying with me, trying to talk me out of it. (as I hear the words "Tyranda, help me" from Legion, as an echo.)
He's playing FFIV
probably still recovering from Saurfang's axe
@@Astrogarlic He's playing FF 4, huh? Can't blame him. Pretty good game.
@@Katsutomai I mean, if your wife who has an inherent connection to the moon is struggling with a dark power and needs to let go of negative emotions to cleanse as a sign of personal growth then I guess he picked a pretty good game to get some pointers.
there's a throwaway line at the beginning of the expansion about the political faction leaders choosing not to go to Shadowlands because they don't want to risk creating a power vacuum if they can't make it back- Tyrande wasn't supposed to go either.
I have a feeling that Elune is the younger sister in their relationship
Agree completely. The WQ and Elune interaction felt really personal to me since I’m the older sibling.
Interesting, I felt like it was the complete opposite: Elune is the elder sibling which is why the Winter Queen had the expectation that Elune could and would help. The way she asked "Hey, where were you when I needed help?" and the genuine hurt in her voice sounded to me more like a younger sibling who is wondering why there older sister who has always been there for them suddenly wasn't there when they needed them most.
@@cassandramuller7337 this makes sense also. I do tend to be on the scolding side more times than not as the older one. We are all adults (I’m 35 lol) but to me they still do “dumb shit”.
@@Yad_HG Younger siblings do be like that :P
But life comes before death
Elune appears
Winterqueen loads her shotgun "get off my grove!"
WoW Texas Edition. ^^
As a fellow Texan. I approve this message.
But what about "Vin Diesel enters with a shotgun, you don't do that to family"
This just seems like nonsense to me
What would have happened if Sylvanas didn't decide to burn Teldrassil? Would Elune not send any help to the Winter Queen?
It's not a very good story if its strung along by a series of happy accidents.
I think the existing soul wisps( few when comparing it to the cascade after the burning) would mysteriously dissapear, and no one will know the answer.. till now
@Episode Update except it is already established that only wild gods and loa and reborn there. the night elves souls would have been nothing more then an fuel for the winter queen. this does not stop the fact that elune did not even look into what was going on at all, and blindly tossed them to the shadowlands when she already knew they were not getting souls in the first place.
im starting to get the feeling a LOT of people really mean "write the story like im 5" when they say that the writing is bad... I cant imagine coming to the conclusion that Elune made the world tree event happen...wut lol
I agree. People only read what they want to read aka they search for things to pick on at this point. I’m always happy Tali still appreciates and discusses the lore.
Agreed. It's just an angry mob that wants to be angry and since it's a rather vocal group of people - they just perceive their haphazard views as truth.
Exactly.
In this case, to be fair, the momentousness of Elune's declaration makes it easy to overlook the conditioning sentence, "in the wake of tragedy". I got this idea the first time I watched it, but realised that was not it the second time around.
Big props to you, Taliesin, for giving the writers their due credit by analyzing their work, even in the wake of all this mess. As a long-time player of WoW, this cinematic is one of the biggest lore bombs to date and it had me absolutely in tears. I'm so glad you share my appreciation. You even picked up on the "Tyrande's choice" thing, which is interesting in the context of the previous cinematic. I'm still not sure that she *chose* not to kill Sylvanas, but we can have that debate another time.
I still remember how awesome was the scene from the fall of argus, at the seat of the pantheon, where the camera pointed at the titans from below as we were shown that we are lesser beings than the titans, meanwhile in the frame above the titans, at the center of the seat was a ball of arcane, which is what elune's power is pretty much all about, and probably fuels the seat of the pantheon itself. I loved how people forgot that the people behind blizzard's cinematics always think about absolutely everything in the frame and dismissed it as a glowy shiny thing. I might resub after watching this video. I always loved the lore and it's sad to see the company in such a depressing state...
Even though I've left the Blizzard family, I have to say that this cinematic is one of my top three favorite cinematics. The graphics, yes, the visuals are stunning, and /purposeful/, but it's the voice acting, for me. There's pain, anger, defeat, betrayal, relief... there is so much there that is quietly gut-wrenching. It is an absolutely beautifully well done cinematic. Beautiful in so many ways.
It must feel nice as a night elf player to know that your goddess treats your race as a compost for her sister garden
Lol so true.
I live for your explanations! You explain lore to us like no one else and really communicate depths of meaning that otherwise could easily be missed or misunderstood. Yes, there might be different interpretations of meaning, but I think the point is that it prompts discussion and speculation that only makes us eager for more.
Evie is ONLY HERE FOR THE MONEY lmaoo that’s the only moment she shows up 😭 We miss youuu
She is obviously here for Idris Elba this time LOL
She's got an rl baby now, and that baby costs srs $$$
I love how at the end of the sponsorship segment she calls Tali peasant and quickly corrects it 😂😂
I love how you two explain things so clearly....haven't played up to the cinematic yet and figured all this out that explaining just by watching it once.
Tali's justification for Blizzard's crappy narrative is better than Blizz's own story writing.
Thank you for your fantastic work in showing how great this cinematic is and the storytelling within. It has been an incredibly conflicting time as a Blizzard fan this past week and change. So seeing something positive really reminds me why I love the community and the work the team does to create these stories.
13:55 immediately got on to that , a lot of content creators missed!! Bravo!!!
Yes they become wisps and she sent them to shadowlands instead!
But it also presents the fact that, no first ones knew what was happening in SL.
I love how you explain things. So thankful that you do what you do. Don't stop because of someone else's issues. Do what you love doing.
Why did I have to watch a 30 minute video (which was great btw) to fully understand the story?
If the story doesn't suck, the way they tell it does...
You can get to a thirty minute video by watching tthe cinematic and knowing the lore that led up to this point. That a simple few-minutes cinematic can yield thirty minutes of discussion and delving deep, that means the cinematic is good, and not bad.
I’m glad you still decided to make this. It helps me and others like me who have stepped away from wow but still want to see the rest of the story, do so without supporting blizzard ourselves.
Don't forget Xalatath call Elune the "upstart goddess" implying they have more knowledge of her than we currently do possibly tying to your comment about Elune and galactic war. Secondly, I personally hope that the events surrounding Blizzard currently does not cause you to stop making content that's enjoyed by us, about a game I think some of us still enjoy playing.
Just that everyone else calls her a full god. Xalatath may have lied.
@@williampaulsinghharika2627 Xalatath is an old god weapon so that is VERY plausible
If Blitzchung and the Hong Kong incident didn't make them stop or even pause then why would this? What they have went through is FAR worse than any Bliz employee. Tali just loves his soap box, ya know.
Xalatath interacted with Old Gods this would imply that they are older then Elune who is Upstart goddes to them
@@KM-fm9ms if blitzchung made you stop using blizz products you also would need to stop using apple, google and microsoft products who all cooperate the same way with the chinese goverment and tailor their products to their wishes.
Excellent breakdown Tal
One of the most important vids that you two have done. Good job. People really need to listen and read instead of jumping on the hate train, because of what they took the wrong way. Getting on the train because of Acti-Blizz being jerkoffs? Sure. But not because they got something wrong.
Yeah so nice that we need 3rd party to come with everything, because Blizzard can tell a well written story anymore.
This Cinematic went from a shaky 6/10 to a Solid 9/10 but ONLY because of Taliesin's explanation and enthusiasm ... Cheers Tal.
Wait wait wait, you used the past tense part for the teldrassil thing and I agree, Elune obviously didn't fucking orchestrate the slaughter of the night elves - but then you ignore the future tense of 'she must choose' and imply she already chose. I don't actually buy that, unfortunately. The text IS pretty clear that she hasn't chosen yet.
So it then turns the Tyrande story into a bland cycle of revenge bad, which usually I'm okay with, but the reason revenge is bad is generally because it perpetuates an endless war of hatred and revenge. In Sylvanas's case, well, the whole Horde (minus the Sylvanas loyalist side which as far as I'm aware has no more writing in Shadowlands anyway) and the whole Alliance want her head. The Jailer clearly doesn't care about her well being (obviously) and let's be real, what she's done is absolutely heinous enough that it deserves retribution. Basically, no parties would be upset if Sylvanas would have died there.
If Blizzard wants to say that going through with it while hopped up on night warrior power would have turned Tyrande into Sylvanas, well... I just don't buy that?
It could be implied that she must choose fully implying that she's torn bewteen the two options so neither was happening fully. Powering up still but in the same line not taking it to the finish. Powering down in a way but not being released from her invocation of elune's power. She could have been in mental limbo til her resolved leaned one way or another.
@@kloaf1131 That seems like a reach to me. You don't lay your life down on the line without conviction, generally, and when she did her whole DBZ jump after Team Rocket's blasting off again Sylvanas, she straight up told Elune my life for hers (it was some gibberish madeup language, but the official video has subtitles that say my life for hers)
I mean, maybe you're right. But if that's the case they are really, really bad at communicating this stuff for your average player. I don't think you should need an hour of research and discussion to make sense of like, 6 minutes of cutscene.
@@alifewellwastedyt I don't think you need that long about it. But lore like this is entirely meant to spark discussion and thinking. Hand-fed lore is lazy writing.
@@alifewellwastedyt I'm thinking that Elune probably wanted Tyrande to make a choice after she saw what was at stake. Like you would hold a friend back from making a rash decision when they don't have all the information and are basically doing subsatnce abuse and are generally in a shitty place. I think Elune intervened this time and not others because the stakes are higher and she just lost a lot of her followers. If she can perhaps save one she'll try. Elune sounds like she's in a bad place emotionally. Except Tyrande wasn't ready to listen.
I personally find it interesting that Tyrande chose to let go of hatred after she felt Elune's pain. She mentions that the tear was both hers and Elune's which implies she felt Elune's emotions while Elune "possessed" her. To me this sounds like Sylvanas wasn't the real problem: Tyrande felt abandoned by Elune (like the Winter Queen), she felt betrayed by the poerson she trusted with her life and the life of her people. Feeling that Elune actually felt as much pain as her allowed her to let go. Feeling (and hearing/seeing?) that Elune did the only thing she thought she could do made Tyrande forgive Elune for not preventing the tragedy at Teldrassil. That's why Tyrande chose renewal over vengeance. It wasn't about Sylvanas. It was about Elune. And part of me wonders if Elune perhaps also stopped her because she knew that Sylvanas wasn't the problem. Or perhaps it was just that the power she was invocing felt that this was not really her goal. Not because Tyrande already chose to let go of vengeance but because vengeance on Sylvanas was never really the issue. Tyrande just thought it was.
Thank goodness for Tal to explain this stuff to those of us who only half pay attention to this stuff and can't retain the half we paid attention to!
SensationalBanana from Twitch here. Your continued coverage of this game keeps me grounded. ❤
I just want you to know that content creators like you, Evertell, and Bellular are one of the only things making my break from WoW less painful. I have loved the story since I was 18 and playing Vanilla back in 2006 on my first NELF, and it was the lore that kept me hooked through every dip in activity or lowpoint in the lore, and when I decided I would take a break from WoW due to the lawsuit I was able to comfort myself by saying "I can keep up with the lore by watching my favorite streamers and RUclipsrs". Channels like these are a HUGE part of what made it possible for me to fully appreciate to enjoy the lore in the first place considering how spread out it is in game. You make it possible for part of me to keep living with one foot in Azeroth, if that makes sense?
I know we can't make this decision for you, and you should absolutely do whatever you feel is right, but as someone who _IS_ choosing to take a step back from WoW in the wake of the recent lawsuit, I *genuinely* hope that YOU and other content creators don't feel duty bound to close up shop.
For me, FFXIV is such a good game that I feel like I personally can't keep making excuses to keep forcing myself to play a game I no longer enjoy, especially with everything going on, but I acknowledge that it makes it easier for me to go and I really feel for all the people I know who still LOVE WoW and don't feel at home anywhere else feeling like they are somehow dishonoring the victims if they keep playing and paying. The story of Warcraft does not belong to the abusers, it belongs to the victims and all the innocent employees who got that story out to the world and worked their asses off for 15 years to bring an entire world to life for us.
I saw a post in my legacy Wyrmest Accord FB group where someone was being shamed for taking part in a mass log off event to support the strike (they are also staying out of game to not cross the 'picket line') while their subs are still active said that she wished she could keep playing because she really relied on it to cope IRL but that there had been so much shaming of the people who had not unsubbed that she finally couldn't take it and unsubbed out of guilt. That made me furious. I told her she had nothing to feel guilty about and to please not deny herself something she loved just because of a few assholes giving the entire game a bad name unjustly, and reminded her that if the victims are not leaving, surely it is acceptable to stay and support them? Boycotts cause layoffs afterall.
Realistically speaking, boycotts alone do not work. The only thing that drives change is *_PUBLIC DISCOURSE_* and *_BAD PRESS._* I truly believe that you can continue to play WoW and make content based on WoW _in tribute_ to the survivors and in spite of the dark forces that they worked under, sometimes way harder than I think any of us truly realize or appreciate, and regardless of what ActiBlizz does, so long as those people CHOOSE to keep working for them and *DEMANDING* change, I feel that it is totally fair for you to stand your ground with them and continue to demand change from within.
Something I have suggested to people I know who felt guilty is simply to commit to not using the cash shop for vanity items (because they almost certainly make WAY more from that than subs), and to keep up with the news, to keep talking about the lawsuit, to keep retweeting the survivors, and actually T&E is in the unique position that you could simply decide to keep playing and being a force for good in the community, and either say you will be making videos in the future to make sure all the lawsuit news stays relevant and in the public eye to keep the pressure up, or have a page on your website where you are dedicated to TLDRin any updates for your audience.
The best thing anyone with a platform can do is keep up the pressure and make sure ActiBlizz knows that we are paying attention. Everyone has to find their own way to do that, so please don't feel forced to quit, especially if WoW is something that you make your living on or even just use as a coping mechanism for how depressing life has been for the past 2 years. We need MMOs in a pandemic!
"The Winter Queen is bound to *her* counterpart in the realms of life."
So others have counterparts too I guess. I wonder which one Zovaal wants to off, his own or Elune.
Not necessarily. I think WQ and Elune is a special case because they both are involved in the great cycle between life and death.
I'm not really sure there's a solid basis for that conclusion. Ardenweald's main purpose is facilitating the renewal of its inhabitants, sometimes literally renewing them back into the realm of life. As Sean mentioned, it is a component of a cycle. No other covenant of the Shadowlands exists as part of a cycle in the same way. In fact, every other covenant's primary focus lies in assisting souls to find their new place within the realm of death by accepting (Necrolord), atoning for (Venthyr), or letting go of (Kyrian) their path in life. No covenant but Ardenweald creates a loop which feeds back to life.
the maw is the only non recyceling soul place. doesnt make a sense for a counterpart for that domains ruler
part of me wants to say Illidan is Zoval's Moriarty. I mean...
Super interesting question. I wonder if they even all have a counterpart, its possible that only some do?
Aaah I'm so happy this video is out. I was dumbstruck that the cinematic was criticized so much when there were (to me) very obvious explanations. Especially the part about Elune being stupid was so annyoing to hear from people. Your point about Tyrande choosing not to kill Sylvanas was pretty interesting and I didn't think about that one myself, thank you!
More spinning Evitel intros.
"I've been expecting you, Mr Elba..."
Heard about the debate about the emerald dream, and was just rereading chronicle last night. Had to pause the video to run and find a particular quote that seems to foreshadow and support your theory;
*The Dreaming World:* "Some believe that Freya wove the Emerald Dream into being from nothing. Others claim that this strange place had always existed in some form, a dream born from Azeroth's slumbering world-soul. It is said that Freya tapped into this realm and moulded what would become known as the Emerald Dream as a way to commune with the nascent titan."
While it's not entirely encouraging, it does work particularly hard to leave the door open for the Emerald Dream to have already existed as they were writing it. From what we've seen, my theory is the Dream is a realm of life (and counterpoint to the shadowlands) created by the dreams of slumbering world-souls, which is how Eonar and by extension Freya initially ordered and utilised the realm to communicate with and heal Azeroth, as well as how it gives people entering it such a strong connection to the state of the world, and the nature that flourishes upon it.
Another thought, Elune being related to the Emerald Dream is hinted at by moonkin druids. Druids draw power from nature, and the Emerald Dream, but one of their forms focuses on a "cycle" to draw power from, and especially utilises the moon and sun. Interesting, no?
Tyranda didn’t stop herself from killing sylvanas, she just got a 2min cinematic halfway the fight, and sylvanas buggered off
Definitely my favourite thing is that we have likely just heard Elune / life's musical theme for the first time at the point the tear is formed.
Expect to hear those elements a lot more in future
"In the wake of tragedy" could also mean "In the wake of the anima drought" tho...
except that the winter queen is confirming that they are talking about the Great Tree
she says "I sent THE cascade of souls" - implying they were already going somewhere. The WQ confirming it was the Great Tree. I think even Tali missed that one, but got the interpretation right.
@@suzandouglass5241 absolutely THE and not "A cascade of souls" clearly means that Elune discovered the cascade of souls/burning of Teldrassil as it happened and she did not orchastrate anything
wich is no doubt, this.
Elune was most likely like "oh... I can stop it but... man my sister is really in need of souls... I just can't do it" and taliesin is just shilling again :D
@@arthurhki1471 she is only confirming that her sister's answer was indeed, The Great Tree burning. She is now looking back and saying "oh, so that was you".
always love your cinematic deep dives you seem to find things no one else has
I think it's also notable that Elune appears certain that the souls of the Night Elves will end up in Ardenweald, which is probably based on the nature of the Night Elf traditions and way of living closer and in service of the wild.
Not only that but I think it's because they have a connection to Elune who is the Winter Queens sister
I think it's also because Night Elves have something like a "mark" of Elune. So that contributes (well...contributed) heavily in the arbiters decision.
@@seanh1321 I agree, at the end of the day thay are her "favoured children", which doesn't mean that she prefers Night Elves, it just means that to all the races of Azeroth they are "HERS" and have her blessing :D
you have no reason to think so, just no reason, if you reffered from Warcraft 3 only, then yes, from WoW it was made realy wishywoshy with taurens, and druid class in general.
@@dragonhunter6102 they didn't say *only* night elves go to ardenweald. Besides we know a tauren that is there too, Hull Highmountain...
What I get from that starting line is that Winter Queen is adressing someone far above her, they pleaded for her to aid them, it's like talking to her superior but knowing that Elune won't get angry with her/strike her down. Elune restored heart of forest and sigil, that is the power she has
'In the wake of tragedy' could be refering to the tragedy unfolding in Ardenwield. If Sylvanas hadn't burned down the tree then Elune wouldn't have sent any souls to sustain Ardenwield...
Furthermore, the burning of Teldrassil doesn’t make any sense if Night Elf souls don’t normally go to the afterlife. Sylvanas was sending power to the Maw at Zovaal’s behest-so if Elune normally keeps those souls back as wisps, Zovaal would have sent her somewhere else. Unless Zovaal read Elune’s mind and knew she’d let the souls free somehow, and THAT would be terrible storytelling.
I mean, she probably means the burning of Teldrasil but this too makes sense. I mean makes more sense than the people saying "That means Elune burned the tree!" :D
Victoly Sylvanas has burned the tree not to send the souls to the Jailer but to break their hope. She didn't have the plan to burn the tree in the first place, she just wanted to kidnap Malfurion (for the same purpose to weaken their spirit) however since she failed she got emotional and pissy and yeah had a "burn them all moment" instead.
The only NE that turn to wisps are the ones with deep connections with the forest. Not everyone, let’s say the common folk, has that.
at the point of the burning of teldrassil the drought went already for years, thats a little too far in the past to say "wake" thats like blizz's soon TM levels of wake :D
Glad you commented on the Lady Moonberry dialog. It was the funniest, most unexpected bit of humor I’ve come across in the game
Tali’s deep dives of these cinematics etc is what keeps me interested in the lore. Thanks for putting in the work! Looking forward to more lore videos!
The lore has a lot to offer in that regard. Right there with you in thanking Tali for the awesome, beautiful effort. Just wish the community was less dismissive of it, they would rather the lore be simple, straightforward, and never-changing. Right now, my only gripe with the Warcraft lore is that while they expand the themes they choose for each xpac, whole other pieces can be left to explore waiting their turn.
I'd argue that while "in the wake of" certainly indicates it is happening after an event, I think it's a bit more specific than that - namely, I'd say it more accurately means "as a consequence of".
This is important because it more clearly emphasizes the events and clarifies what led to what.
Elune's statement is "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and in the wake of tragedy sent forth a cascade of souls to sustain you." You're interpreting the "tragedy" as the burning of Teldrassil, but I think the "tragedy" is the anima drought.
If you put in the words "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and as a consequence of Teldrassil, sent for a cascade of souls to sustain you" it comes across rather...opportunistic I suppose. Somewhat flippant. It seems like Teldrassil was a convenience. But if you put it as "I heard your cries, felt your pain, and as a consequence of the anima drought, sent for a cascade of souls to sustain you, it ties it together much better - the objects in the sentence are all consistent, and I think it more clearly shows the weight Elune gives to maintaining the cycle/balance of life and death in general, and Ardenweald/the heart of the forest in particular. It clearly ties the cries and pain of the Winter Queen in the face of the anima drought to the actions of Elune. Elune may not have known exactly what was wrong, but she clearly understands how Ardenweald depends on anima.
To me this is the clearest and most significant sign we have received yet in the story that what the jailer wants to do is really, really bad. Yes, the Winter Queen sacrificed groves and wildseeds and anima to sustain the heart of the forest and keep the jailer bound, but Elune sacrificed her "favored" children to try to help, even when there have clearly been differences between her and the Winter Queen, even without her being present to witness the anima drought herself - she cares so deeply, on a personal level and on a cosmic level, that she understands while horrific and terrible, for the greater good, she could not save Teldrassil. Honestly, I would be surprised if a character doesn't make a point that if Ardenweald fell and the Jailer was loosed, there would be no hope for peace for those night elf souls anyways. It's a perfect example of the divine perspective gods have in their stories.
She is fallible, she seems brash at times, quick to anger - but she is also clearly noble, protective, and humble as well. I eagerly await for more Elune in the lore.
Unsurprising that you would go to bat for this terrible plot. Here's what people are actually mad about and not convenient strawmen for you to argue against: Elune is negligent for Teldrassil not because she set it up because she could've done more to prevent it. Instead she played favorites with Malfurion to prevent *him* from dying but just put every other elf, including *children* to sleep so they wouldn't die in pain from being burned to death. It's arguable that even her small interactions with Azeroth turned the tide in multiple battles, including the War of Eternity. So why didn't she do more to intervene here? Hey, some crazy Starfall magic like what Tyrande used to be capable of would've been amazing. Hell, why not invoke the Night Warrior before it got that bad? No, Elune just saves Malfurion so Tyrande can run off with him and let her people be - in her words - occupied as painlessly as possible. Night elves to exist to get fridged. Blizzard didn't think about the ramifications of the scene they wrote and are constantly trying to walk back what they wrote.
This 'renewal not vengeance' narrative is them trying to excuse Sylvanas' involvement. Hey, don't worry! All the night elves will be reborn with the Winter Queens magic so it's like nothing ever happened! Yaaaaay! It was all a dream! Nothing matters! No one has to be held accountable for the War of Thorns and the burning of civilians including children! Renewal, not vengeance guys. Oh, by the way. Let's take that to its logical conclusion. Let's have Sylvanas forgive Arthas for what he did. :) After all, he wasn't in control of his actions just as Sylvanas isn't culpable for anything she did in the past. Renewal not vengeance guys. :)
The whole, "Elune stopped Saurfang killing Malfurion" being treated like established fact is so weird. It is a complete misreading of the tone of the shirt story. There is no suggestion at ALL that Elune is powerful enough or has the inclinations step in and stop an invading army by herself. Her vulnerability in this cinematic only solidifies that
@@TaliesinEvitel How is it hard to imagine Elune intervening? Didn't she flat out make Tyrande invulnerable at one point? It isn't as if she did nothing for all of the War of Thorns. She put the elves to sleep to die painlessly. Why didn't she put the invading army to sleep? That probably would've been helpful. Can't do that though, sister needs souls.
If Night elves were made aware of this, and if this game was written by competent people, they'd abandon her en masse. I would be *offended* if I was a Night elf and Elune told me she favored me.
When i first watched this cinematic is was incredibly happy and hyped over it, i watched it over 5 times in a row.
So i was deeply shocked, when i saw an almost exclusively negative response to it online.
So THANK YOU @Taliesin & Evitel for putting out this amazing video analysis to clarify what´s happening and hopefully quell the onslaught of negativity that is curently happening over it.
Love your content, it never fails to put a smile on me
Assuming current situation in blizzard, they will go all-in and Elune will be revealed not several years later but the next patch (being attacked by Zoval)
There won't be a 'several years later' for WoW after the last week.
@@maxxamillion528 Yes there will be. These comments about the end of wow etc. are getting borring. I get that its the "great" sensation this lawsuit....But for average player who likes to do little bit of PVP there and few world quests or run M+ nothing has changed.
@@fikuss9 nothing to do with the case, it's the quality of the content that will kill it.
As more players try other games they realise they are way better MMOs out there, that are much, much greater value for money . Other games have moved on, WoW has moved backwards.
I loved this so much. It actually had me in tears because of the remorse in her voice and made me think of Ysera's death and Elune taking her and sending her to sanctuary. With everything that has unfolded in this patch, I am worried I'll go through a box of tissues when Christie's Sylvanas book comes out! Thanks for breaking this bit of lore questing down a bit more.
The fact Lady Moonberry did what usually takes the average Venthyr EONS to do, really shows to me how seemingly inefficient the Venthyr "Atonement" process is. But that's just me.
Maybe Ardenweald is the last stop for souls after they've done what they needed to do in all the other covenants.
I’m so glad you also understood what the cinematic said! Obviously if most people misunderstood blizzard should’ve used a different vocabulary but so many people don’t know what “In the wake of” means and it’s like UGH! Thank you for having a brain as always!
Thank you for letting me realise that's it's okay to like this cinematic! It's so deteriorating logging onto social media, seeing people flame it and being afraid to comment how I actually thought it was good.
Danuser is setting up the future of WoW while simultaneously tieing up loose ends that Afrasiabi created by artificially extending Metzen's story that was essentially finished in Legion. Keep up the great content!
Saddened to see this video overshadowed by recent news. This was a fantastic cinematic and one of your best breakdown videos. This should be a moment where my love for WoW reaches its peak (what lifelong night elf player wouldn't be excited to finally hear the voice of Elune?). But alas, its just not the right time.
Love your videos and will continue to be a supporter, both on RUclips and Patreon.
16:50 Taliesin, the fact that there is an anima drought in the first place is reason to believe something suspicious is going on. Unless Elune has no knowledge of how the machine of death works, it is systematically impossible for an anima drought to happen unless something went wrong. Did Elune just think anything relating to nature stopped dying and going to Ardenweald???
Or maybe she there are other dieties like Elune that "stopped" other souls from dying , similar to how she did with making Night Elfes into wisps.
From her perspective she just herd her sister's cries for help and she offered what she tought was a helping hand without looking into it.
@@Phoenixillusion18 hear her feelings but can't talk. Come on man he is gasping for straws here. How would WQ know her sister is helping? Go on feeling radar? Better yet if they are from different realms why would WQ even ask her for help? If you apply some logic to this messed up story it falls apart very easy. The whole eternal ones not knowing what is going on in their own realm is by far the stupidest plot I've seen so far.
If this cinematic proved anything its how easy it was to make elune not look like an incompetent idiot. She could simply send and avatar or an agent to SL. Don't tell me that can't be done cause titans, burning legion and light did it already, let alone dread lords.
Edit
Btw I'm not trying to attack you or anything but pointing out some valid point.
@@bastalam well look at how often the Titans agents they send get rogue and turn against their masters. I as titan would not trust one of my servants to be reliable.
@@williampaulsinghharika2627 I'm not quite sure what you are going for here. Given that Elune can out right possess the said agent/manifest through them the likelihood of what you said happening is very slim. If anything Tyrande should have been used as she was there already and possessed Elune's power.
@@bastalam but Tyrande went there at the beginning of Shadowlands, so Elune did not yet have an agent there as far as we know. Only her former nightwarriors who all seem to have broken all connections to her, after her power killed them. The stonewright even despises her.
Was waiting for this one since Noble mentioned your take on the subject.
Exactly how i felt about this from the first watching. A voice actors did excelent job telling us the feelings behind the words.
I felt the shivers. Well done. Realy sad its overshadowed by horrible peoples actions at Blizzard.
Taliesin and Evitel, the Mr and Mrs. Rogers of WoW lore, allowing a dumb old man like me, after having experienced the cutscene myself and just sitting there slack jawed, to come back here, listen to their show and *actually* understand what I had seen before. I love your work and hope that there will be many more videos with you!
Couldn’t “The Great Tree” also be Nordrassil? Perhaps Elune made the wisps answer Malfurion’s call (he did use the Horn of Cenarius, who is a child of Elune) at the end of WC3: RoC. The World Tree was destroyed and Nelves lost their immortality. They could now die and be sent to the Shadowlands. They gives a LOT more souls to Ardenweald and avoids any issues about culpability for Teldrassil.
had the same thoughts about.... The Great Tree... and time runs different to the planes. But even to the cliffhanging story puzzling i guess in this case the obvious one is meant. Actual storyboards do miss more and more old facts... best example now the fact, that Jaina lost her memory she last met Uther @ Icecrown and NOT @ Stratholme -.-
@@normanbates7373 Not quite sure what you mean about Jaina and Uther but I had some more thoughts about it being Nordrassil. Elune says to the WQ that she did hear her plea, which only came after the anima drought. The anima drought only happened after/around the EN raid (can't remember exactly when). Therefore, unless time runs backwards a bit, Elune could only be referring to Teldrassil, not Nordrassil. Damn, ruined my own theory.