What's your favorite mask from Majora's Mask? Mine is... the Stone Mask! So creepy. EDIT: I am REALLY enjoying all the diverse feedback!! This really was a topic that hits differently with everyone! Please remember to be kind when debating, ya'll
I always hated the "Termina was a dream" theory. Here are some points against it. 1. Link's Awakening. In that game, the island and everyone on it is just a dream. Throughout the game, bosses, NPCs, and a painting all hint (or outright say) that this isn't real. Majora's Mask has none of that. 2. The books say Termina stopped existing after Link left. The credits of Majora's Mask show otherwise. 3. A director's interview exists somewhere where the game's director mentions it being real. Granted, as different people are brought on to work on new games, lore can change, but this would mean all lore in MM itself was supposed to be real while in development. 4. There is the statement many make that things from Termina are just recreations of things Link or Skullkid saw in Hyrule (Malon to Romani, etc). But then there is enemies like Gyorg. Gyorg has many similarities to Gyorgs seen on Wind Waker and Phantom Hour Glass (purpleish pink body, dark gray face with a horn on it, roughly ship sized). Gyorgs tend to live far at sea in the series and Link in Oot never even visits the coast. The closest he gets to seeing something like Gyorg is the regular shark in Lake Hylia's laboratory. Then there's the question of whether Skullkid would have seen one, which... I don't really know. 5. One of the memories of Skullkid takes place in Termina. We can even find said spot in Termina. Skullkid also knows Termina's four giants, and was friends with them. 6. Many characters that Link has never seen before. One is obviously Tingle. Some have claimed that Tingle is a weird memory of Link, yet Tingle re appears in other Zelda games set in Hyrule Wind Waker, Swords Adventure, outfit in Triforce Heroes). Some others are Kafei, his parents, and the blacksmiths, all who have zero counterparts in Hyrule. 7. Phantom Ganon. In Wind Waker, Phantom Ganon returns (I assume Ganon was re-hiring). In this game, he has a sword. On this sword is writing, which translates to the names of the blacksmiths from Termina (uniquely, the same design for Phantom Ganon is used in Four Swords Adventure, the timeline where Phantom Ganon wasn't banished. There, he doesn't have the names on the sword). 8. Ganon has no Termina counterpart. Ganon has haunted the thoughts of some Links, including Link to the Past Link. In Link's Awakening, the final nightmare takes the forms of some of Link's foes, including Ganon and his disguise Aganim. If Termina was made from Oot Link's mind, you think something similar would happen. 9. Fierce Deity mask returns in Triforce Heroes (admittedly, this point is a little weak). Triforce Heroes had an update that added the Pit of Trials. At the end, you gained the Fierce Deity costume. If Termina wasn't real, then why would this be here? (This point is weak because it was added in an update, and wasn't part of the base game, so it's canon is ambiguous). 10. Lorule. One of the biggest points people tell me is that Termina had people who looked exactly like those from Hyrule, so it must be a dream. Did anyone remember A Link Between Worlds? Lorule is an alternate version of Hyrule, complete with alternate people. Quite a few look exactly the same or have the exact name (Dampe is still named Dampe, just like MM. His only difference is that he's purple. The priest in the temple two feet from him is exactly the same as Hyrule).
Oh, boy. I love your theories, Bandit, but as somebody who devoted nearly a year of his life to studying this game...there are some major oversights here. It’s actually impossible, according to the game, for Termina NOT to be real. See, Skull Kid meets the fairies in Termina-something Tatl remembers-long before he had Majora’s Mask. And Tatl clearly is shown existing before Link is thrown from his horse-she’s the reason it happens! Skull Kid is clearly ancient. For one, he is likely also the one from Twilight Princess, which takes place long after MM. Him jumping between worlds is not much of a stretch, considering we see him do it repeatedly. There is also a lot of evidence that Majora’s Mask itself originated from Termina. In addition to the obvious inclusion of its shape in Stone Tower, the Secret Shrine is filled with knockoff heart-shaped-masks and schematics to open Stone Tower. Everything in Ikana is repeatedly stated to have happed long ago-Dampe’s grandfather spoke of it as ancient history. (Stone Tower and Snowhead Temple both have artwork of the giants, too.) Skull Kid’s entire reason to stealing the mask is predicated on his relation with the Giants. The trippy world-transition is similar to other world transitions. Look at A Link Between Worlds-it’s literally interdimensional paint. The Hero’s Bow comes from Termina, and also appears in Twilight Princess. Epona was not sent to Romani Ranch-as I recall, Romani mentions that she found the horse lost and took her in. The whole War of the Garo clearly happened long ago-and Skull Kid did not set off Ikana’s demise (that was likely the Garo Master releasing Gomess). Skull Kid merely renewed the spirits’ restlessness. I could go on for hours. But I’ll stop here. The game itself, Link becoming involved, none of it would have happened were Termina not already real. Besides, the developers clearly intended it to be real-not only did the manual say so, but they spent so much time on subtle world building DESPITE the development limits... Thanks for reading!
I'd like to believe Termina is a true parallel to Hyrule like Lorule. But your arguments are flawed. You can't use evidence from the "dream" section of the game to argue against the theory. With only the intro immune to an easy refutation of "But that was just part of the dream". Your much better off picking apart the assertion that it is a dream at all.
I typically don't think about it too much, but I have noticed that when I was tinkering with various game maps to figure out how Hyrule's borders have grown over the thousands of years of its history, I've found that the map in OoT vaguely resembles parts of the Great Plateau and a little further north into the "capital region" of Hyrule in BoTW (I can't remember what it's called). Parts of the SS surface map vaguely resemble other parts of the Great Plateau and a fair bit of Faron Woods, though the desert appears to have been moved. Termina's map vaguely resembles the southwest-ish area from the Great Plateau and the "capital region". TP's map also had its own vague-ish place. There are enough differences that I'm likely talking from behind myself, but those differences could also be explained away as a combination of various main settlements being moved around in whole or in part and geographical changes that happen to large pieces of land over time. I've also speculated in my own head as to whether or not the Great Sea is also further out into the oceans past those particular map borders, but that makes no sense to me. I have tried laying a map of the Great Sea over BoTW's Hyrule to figure out which islands are which mountains, but next to none of it lined up. I tried this because there are so many easter egg-type inclusions from WW in BoTW that it got me wondering. I never did try laying it over other maps, though. Got off-topic again. Anyhow, yes I believe Termina is real. As for the acid trip, I also have an idea for that one. Link hit his head when he fell from his horse, but I don't think it would have knocked him quite that silly, for the beating he took throughout OoT (depending on the player's experience, but technicalities aside). Since he was sensitive to the spiritual goings-on and general unrest that was creeping across Hyrule at the start of OoT and had nightmares from it, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for him to have picked up on Termina's own unrest during his unconscious state, but it probably didn't come through as clear as it did in Hyrule because he was a foreigner in Termina, and Hyrule was the land of his birth so there would be a stronger spiritual connection to it and the beings (physical and non) that lived there. I'm interested in other peoples' takes on this.
I believe it's another mirror like Lorule I believe Majora is ganon counterpart sealed away same as Link in fierce diety there is no princess so possible that the ressurection curse chain was broken because the villian and hero are now immortal sealed away and the princess died eventually. In BoTW and BoTW2 trailer they have attempted different ways to break this cycle/curse and I think that this one was more or less successful. I also can believe that it could be a neighbor country to Hyrule that is unknown because of its through the lost woods.
@@Durthane this is exactly why no one likes dream theories. they're too easy to find some kind of evidence of and too difficult to disprove because everything can be written off as part of the dream
@@CookiePieMonster Exactly. The lore of Zelda changes as each game comes out. Developer intent doesn't really play much of a factor into the lore which is even said in the Zelda Encyclopedia. Meaning that the same Bow appearing in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword all have altered the significance of the bow. Until Skyward Sword I think the argument for the bow would be valid in favor of Termina's reality, but I think that the lore of it presented in TP and SS make it very difficult for that to be the case.
Zeldom okay but if the first iteration of the hero’s bow was in skyward in the lore, and we’re going with the assumption that it’s the same bow each time we see it, doesn’t that still prove the existence of Termina?
I really feel like that tree was a portal to Termina and portals to other worlds are a very common theme in Zelda. Termina can very likely be a world that exists in the far past from when Majora wasn't sealed. Since the entire game is centered around time and the goddess of time Termina can exist anywhere at any point in time. The only set time is when Link entered the portal. Also the part with Epona: Since she and skull kid entered before Link did any amount of time could have passed in Termina before Link arrived.
Also, majora is powerful and if it had the power to move the moon I’m sure it possessed a powerful to simply have epona teleported into termina field where epona was lured by the song that can be heard in the farm.
Given that the Lost Woods gives me similar vibes to the Wood Between the Worlds in The Magician’s Nephew, this makes 100% sense to me. Like going the right way in the Lost Woods can bring you anywhere. Or anywhen.
Majoras mask existed in hyrule at one point, before the happy mask salesman was attacked by skullkid. So termina doesnt have to be real because of the fused shadow’s eyes Edid: but then again, i think it is real because skullkid was there before he got the mask
@@askinnyball785 Exactly, that's exactly it! The *game itself* shows us Skull Kid playing with the fairies in Termina *before* it got the mask! So the whole "Termina was created by Majoras Mask using its dark magic and Skull Kid's memories"-thing is complete nonsense, the only thing from the Zelda Encyclopedia I don't take seriously.
I think it is real, let me add something to the "carrying items out from Termina." The Hero's Bow from Twilight Princess has a direct connection to Majora's Mask. The in game description from TP is "You got the Hero's Bow! This treasure of the Gorons is said to have once belonged to a Hero from the past." The connection here is, Link in OOT needs the bow from the Forest Temple onward so in the child timeline he never has a need to go and get it. This bow is also called the "Fairy Bow." The Fairy Bow is then still locked away in the Forest Temple at the time of TP and since the bow he receives even states that this once belonged to a Hero from the past it could be one of 5 games before it, Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Four Swords, OOT or MM. MM fits the best here due to it being the only one with the same name. Granted this does have holes in it, people can just rename a bow, simple enough answer and the name of the bow from Wind Waker is the same. Also as someone stated in the comments, why is a Skull Kid guarding the Master Sword in TP? Or the better question, What makes this Skull Kid important to the previous hero to have his trust to do so?
@@RikenzuPlays you did hit a lot of good points in yours. Your 4th point is a perfect example of showing how Termina is easily real in that sense with using other games as examples. I think LBW is the best example of that, because it shows that the travel can happen you just need to find the way through. Overall enjoyed reading yours.
I really love the points you provided, I would like to add that even if Termina doesn't exist you asked why would the Hero of the Past be so important to skull kid? Well I feel like there's two reasons 1) in OOT as a small part in the Mask side quest, Link actually meets and be friends Skull Kid and gives him a Skull Kid. One could even say skull kid only obtained the name Skull Kid after he got the Mask from Link. I have no evidence to back that up tho. The other point is that Link and Skull Kid share a key connection, they were both friends of Sahria. Maybe when she knew that she needed to attend her duties she told skull kid to guard the master sword until the Hero that is destined to wield the master sword appears. Just small ideas
It can’t be wind Walker since it’s on a different timeline. And I don’t know much about ss so I don’t know but I don’t think he had that much connection with the Gorons unlike the hero of time. Darunia literally named his child after him and calls him a true brother so it makes sense he left it with them
Just one minor fact-check: The Triforce can actually be found in Termina. It's on the bottom of the block-shaped statues that are found in the Stone Tower. There are some images of it and a theory in this pretty old Zelda Universe article - zeldauniverse.net/2006/11/03/the-stone-tower-why-termina-was-doomed/
In Skyward Sword, it is said that the TriForce can not be weilded by gods. So it makes sense that they created Termina (like they did with Hyrule), their creations turned against them and the Golden Goddesses tried to destroy it (or let them destroy themselves) but other Gods (the 4 giants) prevented the end of Termina.
A few thoughts: One thing that makes me want Termina to be real is the Happy Mask Salesman. I don't honestly think Link could "imagine" him with the perspectives, attitudes, and motivations he has in MM, just based on his actions in OoT. And considering where Link finds him and what he knows, Happy Mask Salesman also CAME to Termina knowingly. Secondly, I know it's kinda "tetraforce"-y, and on the whole I take the creators' word that the tetraforce isn't a thing, but I think it makes sense that Termina is a land where Hylia is important, but Din, Farore, and Nayru aren't. And in that sense, it's not a "dark" world or an inverted world, but rather a world dominated by a fixation on *time*. Sure, the moon crashing into Termina and our ability to turn back time are circumstantial, but Ikana is reenacting an eternal war regardless. The historic events of Termina feel like they could have been 1000 years ago or yesterday. And I feel like that's by design. Time is cyclical in Termina by nature, and it's living in a state of perpetual repetition of a late-stage whether the moon is crashing or not. Us actually resetting time is just another layer. That's my impression anyway.
I personally think it was a dream state practice run during the seven years he slept in the chamber of sages. That's why he got to do it over and over until he got it right.
This isn’t the best evidence even if it were a dream. He could’ve just remembered the song from his dream. I don’t agree with the dream theory, but there is much better evidence to disprove it than this.
I think Termina is real too, but if Link really was just unconscious the Happy Mask Salesman could be a subconscious concept that Link may have been inspired to composed the Song of Healing himself whilst dreaming of Termina and all it’s inhabitants that resemble Hyrule’s. Just a thought.
I don't get why they just can't leave it as "Termina is a parallel world". How would it be in the same universe if most of the NPCs look exactly like characters from OoT. There's just so much that implies it's a parallel world and not some other country. The whole "it was just a dream" explanation is honestly lame if you ask me.
It could be "close" to Hyrule in the sense of some Parallel Worlds/Dimensions being "close" to some more than others. Imagine every Parallel World is suspended, or floating, in some void, like our Solar System. Some worlds would be closer than others, just like how Earth is much closer to Mars than Neptune.
@@elitegamer9310 To be frank, they wanted to make a new game but were forced to reuse assets and crunch to put out a game in under a year. This was their tradeoff for not having to make an Ocarina of Time expansion. They clearly intended Termina to be a new and very real place.
Speaking of who created Termina, when you speak to that giant turtle in great bay, he says that the gods might allow him enjoying Lulu's voice before watching the world in his slumber. So that implies that there is gods in Termina.
Majora's Mask is definitely real. The analysis of the lost woods is too thin. If we think about the connection between skull kid; the endless, multifaceted, and unknown elements of the lost woods; as well as the deku Butler and his son and how the son is found in the first portion of the game and the deku scrub symbol closes us off from the early section then it is easy to see the lost woods connecting different worlds just as it did in the ocarina of time and how epona could have her own route to termina (undisclosed to the player). Also it is the best game so it has to be real. The kokiri forest is also set apart from Hyrule because it connects a few different worlds and serves as the first town in twilight princess and is connected to southern swamp in Majora's Mask. Later we will find that Majora's Mask was created by the zonai
Considering that originally it was considered a parallel world (even in the game's manual) then I would say it is 100% real. There's also the Ikana, the Garo, Kafei, Mayor Dotour, Madame Aroma, and so many other new characters and elements in the game that aren't from Hyrule. As for the Encyclopedia, it's specifically mentioned that it is the interpretation of the authors. Not canon. As with everything in the series, interpretation takes a large part in the idea that it's not real, but since most of the evidence for it not being real is speculation while the evidence for it being real is specifically given in-game, I think it's safe to say that Termina is VERY real.
@@ApersonIguess-rb6fu There's even some slight hints that Kafei, the man who was turned into a child (sound familiar?) is parallel to Link, the Hero of Time.
Quit taking one piece of one quote in one of the Goddess Trilogy books out of context to support your headcanon. The Encyclopedia IS canon. It was thoroughly and carefully supervised, authorized, and helped made by the Zelda devs themselves. That IS the official explanation for Termina’s existence - it was indeed a real parallel world, but one which ceased to exist after Majora was defeated.
@NinjaGamer13 "Where necessary, the writers [who aren't Nintendo] of this book added their own interpretations and expanded upon the games' stories. It should be noted that the events described here are also subject to revision, as new trials may await the people of Hyrule in ages to come." -Quote from Hyrule Encyclopedia They literally admit that some of this stuff is never confirmed, and the writers either made up or drew conclusions which they used in the book. I'm not saying that the book is useless, I've read and enjoyed it for some time now. But the games are the true canon, not the extra reference sources. The developers have stated over and over about how the series is open to interpretation, and I doubt they'd just throw that away and say "forget it, listen to this book now."
An argument for proving that Termina is real could be that the Hero’s Shade sings the Song of Healing to Wolf Link. How could The Hero of Time have learned this without actually being in the world of Termina?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._7_(Bruckner) Just one example, but there are many of people dreaming not only new pieces of music, but even mathematical formulas and breakthroughs.
There's also that in Twilight Princess the Hero's Bow was said to be left behind by a previous hero and guarded by the Gorons as a sacred treasure. Who had the Hero's Bow before TP Link? The Hero of Time. Who had a strong relationship with the Gorons and was the chief's "sworn brother?" The Hero of Time. The Hero's Bow was only in Majora's Mask. In Ocarina of Time it was the Fairy Bow meaning if Majora's Mask never happened and was only a dream, the Hero's Bow wouldn't exist
Yeah okay, I'm sure after all that brain damage Link can really remember several songs that he learned in a single dream. Not only that, but remembering these songs past death sounds ridiculous.
during the "Termina isn't real" part of the video I was just screaming "TALK ABOUT TINGLE COWARD" that combined with things like Tatl existing before Link hits his head, and how the Twilight Princess Skull Kid is likely the same one, i don't see how it can't be real.
The mayor isn’t the only brand new character though. The bombers are brand new aren’t they? And most of the unique Gorons and Zora are new. ALL of the unique Deku Scrub tribe are new. I also find it strange that, if Termina is a figment of Link’s delirium, why aren’t there any Kokiri or characters based on them? Surely those characters would be extremely important to Link (especially Saria) and would play big roles in his dream? Nah, my vote definitely goes to Termina being an alternate reality. The entrance being located in a tree isn’t that surprising if you think about the forest that tree is found in: the Lost Woods. A place chock full of magic and mystery.
The bombers were created from the model of the kid in the graveyard that wants to be like Dampé... but other than that I think you're right about all the other new models.
Yes, Lost Wood is full of magic and mystery! Portals to other worlds may very well exist there. Remember, in OoT there were two portals there as well; one to Goron City and one to Zora's River.
I do believe that Termina is real, the "Termina is a dream" arguments are just too easy in my opinion, even if "the" skullkid being there is weird, but like Navi in OoT says, children in the lost woods can become skullkids, which implies there can be more than one skullkid, so the skullkid in MM doesn't necessarily need to be the OoT one, right? Edit: ok yes he could be the same one haha good points guys In addition I don't believe the Termina characters are counterparts of OoT characters. I tend to keep in mind that MM was made in a very short amount of time and they just reused all of those character models without them being the same character per se, haha.
In the end of MM the skull kid said to link "you have the same smell as the kid who taught me that song in the Forrest." So he's definitely the same SkullKid As an Aside, that SkullKid could be the same one from Twilight Princess as well, being that he knew Saria's song and played it throughout the Forrest while guiding twilight link to the secret place to pick up the Master Sword, and temple of time.
Just saying, Link would have the same "smell" as Saria so to speak since they both grew up in the Kokiri Forest. Saria could have taught her song to the Skull kid, and then Skull Kid from MM simply recognized the smell.
I've always thought that not only is Termina real, but it is in fact Northern Hyrule; the starting point for The Adventure of Link! We've got Ruto and Rauru Towns in the northern mountains, Mido Town and the King's Tomb in Ikana Canyon, and Saria Town by the Zora's Bay! And there's a swamp, too! ... Alright, so the geography doesn't match up perfectly, but remember how Death Mountain used to be to the west? And Spectacle Rock used to be to the North? Just sayin'...
As far as I’m concerned with the Zelda franchise, geography not lining up doesn’t mean it’s not the same place. Most Hyrules have pretty different geographies from one another.
Termina is an alternate universe. There are many characters that only appear in it, Skull Kids seem to be immortal, and the lost woods seems to never end in almost every game it appears in.
Termina is Real 2401 :D My headcanon has always had this down to a simple statement; Hyrule has an immense, impassable desert to it's West Whereas Termina (thanks in big part to the Twinmold fight location confirming it) has an immense, impassable desert to it's East Has anyone ever actually scrutinised this particular idea? Also, my "Termina is not real" headcanon is basically - Termina is a land where all kids lost in the Lost Woods will visit. Whether they escape and stay as a human or become a fully-fledged Skull Kid is entirely dependent on them traversing this land and finishing the quest set out for them. Termina represents "The Self", and the fate of the Moon crashing down signifies the destruction of "The Self" and the rebirth as a Skull Kid - Skull Kid himself in this theory representing "The New Self", the thing Link will become if he cannot overcome the obstacles placed before him
The "deserts being connected" logic doesn't really fit... If the Desert Colossus in Hyrule was connected to Ikana Valley in Termina, then how did Link get there from the Lost Woods? You gotta remember, Kokiri Forest and the Lost Woods were on the opposite side of Gerudo Desert in Ocarina of Time's Hyrule. Going east to get to a country that is in the west makes no sense at all, especially if your entry point puts you in the center of said country. But to the people saying "Termina isn't Real", then wouldn't that mean that the Lorule isn't real either? They are both alternate dimensions that exist parallel to Hyrule, and they each have dopplegangers of people who exist in Hyrule. Link, Zelda, Ganon and Dampe had counterparts in Lorule, and pretty much every lesser NPC (excluding the Kokiri) in Ocarina of Time's version of Hyrule had a counterpart in Termina.
@@meleefox3218 your point about the desert is completely valid, however when entering the Twinmold battle from Stone Tower Temple, you get to the desert through a kind of portal. The entrance to Termina through the Lost Woods could also exist as a portal, with all it's weird colourful clocks and masks. My theory is that Termina is real, not so much as a parallel universe but a distant land, and the only reason Link manages to get there is because of the strange portal. It's not entirely impossible as warping to other locations within the same world is VERY commonplace in the Zelda series, inlcuding in OoT and MM themselves. Termina could quite well be on the other side of the world from Hyrule. I know this doesn't explain the counterparts of Hyrulean citizens like Malon/Romani and so on, but I think there were enough new models in MM to suggest that the reused models are not supposed to be parallels, but was just a result of the time constraints the developers were under. Anyways, I think Termina is real in some shape or form, and more MM content is always appreciated. :)
@@meleefox3218 The thing is, we see Link travel to many different lands throughout the whole series and through many different ways Portal through the Lost Woods into Termina The Triforce itself transporting Link to Holodrum (Oracle of Seasons) and Labrynna (Oracle of Ages), and then the further land of Subrosia which, even though it's physically located underneath Holodrum, is only accessible via Portals Subrosia is important, because it sets the precedent that just because a landmass exists, doesn't mean it's easily accessible, or even accessible at all through normal means - Even though Subrosia is literally below Holodrum (we know 100% that Subrosia is below Holodrum as the Temple of the Seasons is sunken from Holodrum and ends up in Subrosia), you can't dig your way into it. You can only get there via the Portals presumably created by the Subrosians Similarly, if you can't dig your way through Holodrum into Subrosia? Maybe you can't cross the Gerudo Desert into Termina. For whatever reason yet unexplained, portals are the answer to many of Link's problems :P
Personally, I like to believe that Termina is real, both because I don’t like “it all happened in their head” theories, as well as the fact that the Happy Mask Salesman is one of my favorite characters in the series, and the level of creepy and evil aura that he just has to him is amazing and I love to believe that that’s real.
Just because a dream isn't real doesn't mean that it was based on real things a lot of what happened in MM could have reflected link's trama in OOT of losing his friends like Sariah and that is why death is a common theme in this game.
I can agree that the Masked Salesman is a mysterious and supernatural being, but not evil. That doesn't square the the MS conversation with link at the end of MM, where he states Link was able to "make a lot of people happy" and congratulates him for it. That would indicate he is some sort of angel-like or possibly god-like being sent as a "guardian" or "aid" to Link.
If Termina is real, and all that really happened, and the Skull Kid really is ancient, then it also explains his appearance in Twilight Princess. Guarding the Master Sword, because Link asked him to.
Well the idea that the Skull Kid is ancient, therefore being possibly immortal, would explain his possible appearance in Twilight Princess, which is set centuries after Majora's Mask.
I think that the events of Majora's Mask are real. Link's Awakening(GBA and Switch) had an ending scene with Link waking up with nothing. If Link woke up in Majora's Mask, Link wouldn't have his equipment in the credits, unless there was a scraped end credit scene.
In the wise words of Dumbledore: : "Of course it's happening inside your head. But why does that mean it isn't real?" Im not sure if Termina is real BUT i think it should be used for theories either way because it still holds tangible lore that relates and ties into other games
It’s a bit hard to dismiss as a dream when the franchise has done 100% real universes other than Hyrule so, so many times. That is definitely not concrete evidence, but I definitely lean towards the “real” side
The skull kid in twilight princess could also be the same skull kid from majora's mask. Also the bow you get in twilight princess shares a name with the one in majora's mask.
Koholint was more than just a regular dream, thanks to the power of the Wind Fish. It had its own reality. I believe that Termina also "exists" in some sense, and does have some impact on the Hyrule we know.
It's somewhat implied that in twilight princess the skull kid protecting the master sword is the same skull kid from ocarina of time / majoras mask, under that impression it's pretty easy to believe that the skull kid is in fact ancient, and could have been alive for thousands of years both before and after the events of ocarina of time / majoras mask.
I personally believe that Termina exists as the kingdom west of Hyrule in OoT. So let's combine the two maps and see how close we get. The biggest border similarity is the ruined kingdom of Ikana and Gerudo Desert/Valley. The Lost woods is most likely far greater in size than we anticipate as well. I presume it wraps around the southern side of Lake Hylia. And a quick reminder that the Lost Woods is connected to both Death Mountain and Zora's Domain. Now what if a little more westward Lake Hylia and the Lost Woods merge together? Combine a forest and a large body of water and you get a swamp which just so happens to be right around Woodfall. And to top it all off a Northwestern ice mountain...hmmm. That map sounds relatively familiar. It just so happens to be almost the entirety of Hyrule in Botw. The freezing heights and plateaus are the remants of Ikana, the Gerudo desert being south of that, and Snowhead being north of that. And east of the gerudo desert is a covered wooded area south of Lake Hylia no less. If the land expanded further west, you'd likely find Clock Town more swamp area further south of the desert, and of course furthest west being Great Bay. And across the several thousand years that have passed since the hero of time are likely the cause of any further map discrepancies. As for the counterparts of characters, well all I can say is that Termina and Hyrule are on the same continent leading to people having the same races. Whether it be immigration, or natural occurrence I couldn't say, but I lean towards immigration due to the Goron's no way thriving in Snowhead in comparison to Death Mountain, meanwhile the Zora's would thrive much more in Great Bay over Zora's Domain. And Darmani was carved on Death Mountain in Botw too. So it's likely Daruk was just as much of a significance to the Death Mountain Gorons as Snowhead. (I wish I could throw Twilight Princess mapping into this since Botw 2 is apparently going to have quite a significance from Twilight Princess but my history is too rocky with the game. I play the Wii version just as much as the WiiU version and I don't really know the canonical map nor could I say which one belongs to which game. XD )
Don't see why it's hard to imagine Skull Kid being much older than he looks and sounds, considering that the one you meet during Twilight Princess plays Saria's song, and the game being set in the child timeline along with Majora's Mask. The only thing that really throws some doubt into the mix is how his face appears to have changed from the scarecrow-like one from the N64 games, to something that sort of resembles the mask that once controlled him, though that could be chalked up to a stylistic difference given Twilight Princess was meant to be "realistic" looking due to the clamor of some fans.
Personally I believe that Termina is like the Wind Fish’s dream, fake at first but became real to those who stumbled across it. Most of Termina may have perished once Link was able to stop the Mask and thus save the land, but pieces such as Link’s gear, Epona, and the Skull Kid were able to be saved from the ending dream because of they either already existed before or were had strong ties to the hero. As for the Happy Mask Salesman and •groan• Tingle •gags•, the HMS was the one who created Termina (not my theory, someone else’s - please check it; it’s pretty good) so it explains why he wasn’t all that effected and even was aware of almost everything that happened. As for Tingle.... I dunno. Maybe it was supposed to be his dream until HMS made it into the Mask’s prison. Maybe there even is a real place and Tingle was on his way there until HMS made his dream a trap and prison for the Mask. Quite frankly, I don’t care about Tingle very much. His creepiness outweighs HMS’s shocking psychotic tendencies for me....-_-;
I mean one of the creators (Miyamoto If I remember right) of MM did say in interview that, it was not a dream, it really happened and is in fact a real place link traveled too..
One thing I can say about the epona theory is that time works differently in termina than it does in Hyrule, from the time link bumps into skull kid to when he meets majora down the tree stump it was only a few moments for the player but to majora it must’ve been at least a few days since he was able to cause a lot of trouble for the people of termina. when first meeting skull kid at the beginning of the game he wasn’t being controlled by majora just yet , so it could’ve been a gradual process. When meeting with majora at the bottom of the tree stump I would assume it was shortly after he got full control of skull kids body considering tadl and tale were still with him , unlike at the end of the game where he ends up abusing tale and tadl renouncing their friendship , giving light that tadl had no idea about skull kids possessions and also showing how scared tale is of majora. Saying all that , it’s more likely termina is in an alternate dimension, lots of the characters from ocarina of time to majoras mask have their personality reversed . It wouldn’t be the first time a Zelda game had alternative counterparts for the characters of the game ,there should be enough time before skill kids full possession to have “ gotten rid “ of epona, all skull kid did was play pranks.
I think the fact that the music and some of the relics still exist after Majora's Mask, mainly in Twilight princess, and that I believe that the Twilight Realm has connection Majora's origins, Termina was real or at least as real as the island in Link's awakening. Even if the world no longer exists, it was tangible and had true life in it.
I have multiple theories on Termina, and only one of them even comes close to the "dream" idea. I rolled my eyes at MatPat's Link is dead theory, but it did get the gears in my brain turning. I came up with a theory that Termina was the Hero of Time's purgatory. He lived his whole life, had children, but died with regrets, and his own personal purgatory threw him back to the time his regrets manifested. After returning to his own time and living in a reality where no one would ever know his name or his deeds. It sticks him in a 3-day loop of dealing with that exact issue over and over and over again. He throws himself into danger time and time again, only to be forgotten again in the end. It's almost like a healing process, teaching him the impact of his actions are more important than the legacy he leaves behind. This is why there's so many familiar faces and the world is so surreal. It's his own personal hell. I don't believe this is really what Termina is, but man, it's fun to think about It's more likely an alternate dimension specifically ruled by the goddess of time. When it's in peril, she drags Link there with the Ocarina of Time to prevent it's downfall. Alternatively, it's a very, very, VERY distant modern future and Link merely jumped through a wormhole. I stand by the alternate dimension theory though.
How about the fact that in The Wind Waker, it is said that the triforce of courage broke into pieces and scattered throughout hyrule, when the legendary hero left the kingdom of hyrule for new adventures. If Termina is a seperate world, then it could explain why the triforce shattered and spread throughout hyrule, since the triforce is power of the gods left behind for Hyrule. It could also explain why the hero in The Wind Waker had no connection to the legendary hero in Hyrule legend. In Twilight princess, the dead legendary hero who teaches the current incarnation of the legendary hero, has an unknown kind of armor not from Hyrule. It could be that armor is actually from Termina, or at least another kingdom Link had travelled to after leaving Termina. It’s shown in Ocarina of Time that the great godesses passed over Hyrule, granting it life. Perhaps they went on to forge other worlds, such as Termina. Their power could easily bridge multiple worlds together. This is proven by the mirror of twilight, which is a gateway to another existence, the twilight dimension.
While I pretty much agree with you, I believe that the hero's shade as well as that game's darknuts is actually knights of hyrule, making that unfamiliar armor hylian armor. NBC has made a video covering this theory called "How Link is RELATED to DARKNUTS!"
My headcanon is that Termina is simultaneously a dream, an actual area in Zelda's world, and a parallel, future version of Hyrule. First of all, Majora's mask reuses assets in the same way a dream would often include distorted versions of familiar faces. Masks are a trend in OoT, and so it would be pretty easily to imagine that someone would have a nightmare about them. Some masks are even shown to have magical properties. MM also includes many different dream-like elements, including falling for a very long time into a pit, searching for something, arbitrary conditions and constraints, etc. So it can be concluded that MM is actually a nightmare Link has based on his previous adventure. However, prophecy, telepathy, and other predicting abilities have been shown to exist in Zelda, and there's absolutely no reason for Link's dream not to be prophetic. We can see a very similar land to Termina in a later game-Lorule. Lorule seems almost like Hyrule's bleak future, where the Triforce is gone. Monsters are everywhere; religion and the belief in the Triforce have all but vanished; people are hopeless and vulnerable to dark magic's corrupting energy; and masks are everywhere, used as a means of protection. Termina may be a vision of Lorule's future. Perhaps, Termina was a warning to Link. Perhaps, the goddesses gave Link this vision to show him what Hyrule could become if the hero's spirit dies, thus leading him to take action, teaching the new Link his techniques and moves as the Hero's Shade. And (/or) perhaps, maybe this dream, across lifetimes, allowed Link to gain the urgency to save Lorule in LBW. This works especially well if it were a dream, since it could have been any Link who dreamed it. As well, if you use camera mods and zoom out as far as you can in Breath of the Wild, you'll notice something. The Gerudo Desert extends far beyond where it needs to, the sand extending for miles beyond the field of play. Once zoomed out, you can clearly make out, encompassing the entire desert, four identically-sized circles, meeting in the center of the desert. And the eastern circle has a cutout to the ocean in an oddly familiar way. One can assume that this area is actually Termina, long before, or long after, anyone lived there. Combining these, maybe in a darker timeline, Hyrule's Triforce was destroyed as a last resort, or stolen by invaders. Because of this, Hyrule enters a long state of decline, eventually being renamed Lorule. Sheikah culture resurges, with masks gaining a heavy cultural significance, not to mention magical powers. Without the Triforce, even the decidedly un-shadowy Hylians (Lolians?) take on traits similar only to those who spend their lives exposed to shadow magic. The normal Hyrule's Link of the time is shown a prophecy of this timeline's, or rather the inevitable future's, logical conclusion, as a warning, or as a call to action: fleeing the monsters that swarmed Hyrule when the Triforce stopped existing, the people of Hyrule fled deep into the Gerudo Desert, settling in its center. Without any hope in religion or magical relics, the Loruleans had advanced their technology, and now used it to fortify their capital. They created magical relics of their own, with their new cultural iconography, masks. They trapped evil in these masks, to seal it away, but eventually a curious Skull Kid used the evil powers of one such mask in order to accelerate the ruin of the land. Eventually the dying land is fully destroyed. This vision is shown to Link perhaps to imprint on his memory what could happen in the far-off future. Or maybe it isn't shown to OoT Link at all, but instead to LBW Link, to warn him of what could befall the world if he does not save Lorule.
I like the *Termina is real* theory. “It never happened” theories are just…I hate them so much. It’s just so dismissive, and boring! The game is WORSE (in a meta way) if it never happened! Everything becomes so pointless! It drives me mad, genuinely. All that time and effort the story writers and lore team put in and everyone just says “lol never happened, you can just ignore that one’s existence and just play the other games.” It devalues so much of the effort they put into it AT THE VERY LEAST, Termina being a dream was a dream made into reality by the Mask, which is why the Skull Kid shares the same dream, and why Link’s shield and sword come back with him to reality. I mean, the Mask can create the world on the moon, and the room you fight it in for the final battle. Why couldn’t it literally, physically manifest Termina? That’s the only “it’s not real” theory I will ever accept
When links mother left him with deko tree she became a skullkid So when young link was fighting off the skullkid curse of the lost woods. Winning means he enters the Twilight attack
I do think termina is an alternate dimension for a few reasons- first, the way time works so differently. The ocarina of time has an even more pronounced effect there, despite not being in hyrule, so it could be a skewed version of Link's homeland, and time being different could explain why the skullkid seems to have been there so long. Second, The world itself, while not having the same lore as Hyrule is quite similar- a group of gods come together to create a land and peoples to populate its varied locations. They eventually leave, but promise to return to use their power if they are called ( gathering the triforce for a divine wish.) Majora is a demonic entity somewhere in the lands past that wants only to toy with the people and cause chaos and destruction (Demise) who is brought down by a stronger being (Fierce Diety?/Link) and held at bay for a period of time in a prison of sorts( mask/ reincarnation as Ganondorf) until they are released into the world again. Obviously this could easily be picked apart, but the timeline is nothing if not full of holes in logic, and I feel like the dream aspect is kind of a lazy way to justify the game.
I think it's distorted reflection of past events that involved Stalkid and Majora and came into and out of existence just as the Zelda Encyclopedia states. I also think the Encyclopedia leaves plenty of room for it to be brought back at any time.
There's definitely more questions about Termina and the skull kid if it is real, so saying it was just a dream seems more plausible. But both sides would make sense
The Skull Kid being the same one CAN be explained through time displacement. The Skull Kid found the way to Termina after he met Link, but when he entered it, time slowed down for him, as he witnessed Termina being created, but when going back to Hyrule with the Mask on and seeing Link and Epona, not as much time had passed. So theoretically speaking, a year in Termina may be the equivalent to a minute in Hyrule
I think Termina is definitely real as a dimension separated from Hyrule and the rest of that world. A key point being that mysterious things happen in the Lost Woods that already can't be explained: Children and adults lost become Skull Kids and Stalfos (so how are stalchilds made?); the creepy guy that needs the medicine (during the biggoron sword quest line) disappears and is never heard from again; Link is always returned to the entrence if he gets lost; it contains multiple portals to take you to either Goron City, Zora's Domain, or Lake Hylia; and even the Kokiri fear the woods and don't know everything about it. As Link arrives in Termina by way of a portal in the Lost Woods, it makes sense as we're already many portals in the previous game. Epona didn't necessarily fall down the hole like Link. Skull Kid (under the influence of Majora) likely just teleported the horse to a destination of his choosing (remember Majora doesn't COMEPLETELY take over until the end. Until then Skull Kid is behaving in an extreme version of its normal prankster personality (although some of those pranks had fatal casualties). So he only really takes Epona for his own pettiness and to toy with Link and watch him suffer a little. Now as far as further theories I have... We all know Link went to the Lost Woods to search for Navi and that's how he ended up in his Terminal predicament. But the irony is that searching for Navi (I'm sure as a reference to the term navigator) got him lost. Then once he meets Skull Kid, he encounters the faeries Tatl and Tael; a reference to the term: tattletale. Why is someone usually called a tattle tale? Because they did something wrong and they don't want others to know or punish them. That's essentially what Tatl does as she accompanies Link on his adventure to help free Skull Kid from Majora's Mask and stop him from doing more wrongs. In a way these faeries are Termina calling out for Link's help. It wouldn't be the first time the place itself guided Link to a destination to save itself (Link's Awakening anyone? Oracle of Ages/Seasons?) Also my theory is that Termina likely used to be a part of the geography of the world Hyrule inhabits but was sealed away for a mysterious reason (likely Majora) with the only pathway to cross its barrier being held within the Lost Woods, a place where MOST people are unlikely to discover IT (HAPPY MASK SALESMAN knows everything).
If you haven’t already, look at the wall art in the crumbled Temple of Time in Twilight Princess. It looks like a women holding a dominion rod and another women holding a child (Young Link before taken to the Kokiri Forest???)
If the events of MM are really in Link's head, the abductions at Romani Ranch imply Link believes in aliens. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
This is Simple: In Twilight Princess Link ( Hero of Time) teaches younger Link ( His descendant) the Song of Healing. The Song of Healing being something he only learned in Termina. Plus the Song of Healing also works in Twilight Princess.
You should keep termina in the theories because even in the future if they ever say it is real or not it gives your videos objectively better rewatch value.
I believe in a slightly different version of the 5 stages of grief theory, I think link was on his deathbed from some sudden injury and in his last moments he created a world inside his head with himself from his first adventure using people he met from childhood to his final days, and the ending is him completing his adventure and finally willing to let go of his mortal life and become a ghost because he could never pass on his teachings and that is the last thing keeping him from a true afterlife and when he finished teaching his descendent his swordsmanship skills and he can finally pass on from his purgatory
I'm definitely in the camp that Termina exists as a parallel universe and is not Link's death or dream. I'm curious to see what the community ends up voting!
I thought MM was just Link's concussion dream lol. Some type of Alice in Wonderland scenerio. The game starts in Link's dream, reliving what lead up to him passing out and then going into his own little world. It was a representation of how he feels like his job as a hero is neverending. Zelda wasn't in the game, because he holds slight resentment towards her, needing a break from saving her, but just always feels like if not her, it is something, thus why you have a journal full of his side quest and you can never truly do them all in a day; they are there to haunt him and remind him that his work is never done. He finds splice with Epona, thus why she was in his dream. Him rewatching what led him to faint triggered his loophole situation.
My theory is that Termina is Lorule in the Child Timeline. Mainly because both have alternate versions of characters from Hyrule. Secondly, when Link falls down into Termina, we see trippy images which can be compared to ALBW with the cracks in the walls. Lastly, the cameo of Majoras Mask in Ravio's hut. That could be just an easter egg or Ravio's predecessor could have saved Termina / Lorule in the downfall timeline as Link was not there to do it. He claimed the mask and this explains entries in his journal as well.
Just because I want to clear this up: Ganon made Lorule. A Link Between Worlds is the sequel to A Link To The Past, and in the explanation of ALttP’s plot it mentions that once Ganon got the triforce, he used it to turn the Sacred Realm into the Dark World. The Dark World being a distorted mirror of Hyrule, landmarks and features all in the same place. Just like Lorule.
Skull kid's horn in TP are Deku pipes and the puppets are animated statues created from the elegy of emptiness, two things that can only exist if the events of MM happened, and because he guards the Master Sword for seemingly centuries, he would have to have some great debt or respect to the hero of time, such as being freed from a demonic mask.
I think Termina is pretty real, but theres a possibility that maybe it's meant to also be a dream world. It's fueled by the imaginations of both Link AND the Skull Kid, thus creating conflict in what would normally be an idyllic dream world
Hey Masked, love the theories, and your channel single-handedly got me back into Zelda! (Just beat the Main Story of BoTW!) But, I comment today to disprove the Dream Theory, if you care to give my comment a read. While I think it's mostly solid and indisputable, there actually is one big flaw with it - the Mayor. At 8:35 you mentioned how the Mayor was a completely new character amongst a sea of recurring characters. However, psychologically speaking, it's physically impossible for the brain to make something completely new up! :D That's why dreams are made entirely of recurring things such as people you know, familiar places, etc - it's because you can't dream of anything else. So, the Mayor being a new character means that Link quite literally can't be dreaming, else the Mayor would have to be someone he already knew. I really really hope you give this a read! Love your content! :)
Also, continuing on with that previous thought of Dreams being impossible to create new things - that also is supported by The Great Bay, Woodfall Temple, Snowhead Temple, etc. There isn't anything quite like them in Hyrule, so it's impossible for Link to have dreamed about it (^3^)
I think you make good points on both sides, but a couple of the points you made for termina not being real I had a couple questions about if you see this :) 1. The portal between worlds being weird. Very much so, but I think the portals to lorule are equally quirky and trippy, so I'm not sure that proves anything for either side. 2 When you say the in the end cutscene that link could still be asleep and it explains why the woods seem to be endless. I think with it being the lost woods, especially on modern designs being more open and seemingly endless, it might just be a better interpretation of the woods from the sequel maybe? 3. In regards to the skull kid having been alive for so long, bearing in mind the crazy time distortions you can perform in termina, goodness knows what you could be capable of if you know how to play around with it. Weakest of my points I think but yknow, if he really has existed this long in this world then maybe he has more power or longevity that we expected haha. Anyhow, great video, I think im slightly leaning towards termina being real, but only by a smidge, would love to hear your opinion!
"The events of Majora's Mask have no affect on any of the later Zelda games" The Skull Kid from TP is the same one from Majora and Oot. Heros' shade is the same Hero of time who learned the song of healing in Termina, The giant statue of Darmani in botw, And Majora's mask it'self being in a Link between worlds. The fused shadow may or may not have been majora's mask (That ones still just a theory.) List can go on.
Despite the Official Zelda Encyclopedia saying that Termina is just an illusion that disappears after Link leaves, or some weird thing like that, I'm of the opinion that Termina does, in fact, exist, since official sources before used to refer to Termina as existing in a parallel world; and Link's time in Termina seems to have still had an impact on Hyrule, itself. Other characters, such as the Skull Kid, Tatl and Tael, and even Epona were in Termina before Link even arrived there, and the Skull Kid, along with Tatl and Tael were even in Termina BEFORE the Skull Kid stole Majora's Mask from the Happy Mask Salesman (who may've been in Termina before Link, too). And, let's not forget the fact that Link was not only able to take items out of Termina, but also remembered important songs from Termina, too. Also, if Termina was all in Link's mind, then why are the Terminian counterparts of Twinrova benevolent witches who brew and sell healing potions to people in the Southern Swamp (and give guided tours that keep the tourists safe), while the Terminian counterpart of Sakon is a dirty thief who preys on people who look vulnerable, such as Kafei in the body of a child and the old lady from the Bomb Shop?
I think a lot of people forget that the stal branch of monsters are catorgised as undead/living dead monsters meaning stalchildren don't age so Stalkid could easily be thousands of years old and could easily have met the four giants a long ass time ago.
Termina as a fabrication makes the most sense, honestly. It means Termina is both real and a dream. According to the manga, the mask grants wishes. According to the game, it's also sapient and malevolent. So, to do its evil, it has to work off the desires of its wearer, at least at first. When Skull Kid stole the mask, both it and he needed an escape route, so it created a portal to a reality based on Skull Kid's thoughts/feelings/memories. Tattl and Tael follow and the Happy Mask Salesman gives chase. Then Link falls in and Epona follows him. The Giants aren't *actually* Skull Kid's friends. They're representations of his friends created from memory and emotion. Like in a dream. At the end, Majora's Mask loses its power and soon Termina ceases to exist, dumping all the "real" people back in the Lost Woods. Because Termina physically existed, all the items in it did too, so Link was able to keep them. (Because the power of Majora's Mask was only needed to keep a pocket reality from collapsing, not to keep objects it created in existence.)
My only issue with it all being in Link's dream is that actually narratively doesn't make sense. World/Story/History wise, the only thing that would point to being all in Link's head is the people. Everything else, seems to point to something other than Link being responsible. - The Moon falling - Majora itself - The 4 giants and the 4 locations - The masks having power - Enemies and bosses not seen in Ocarina of time - The Ocarina of time and its specific abilities of time travel, when the only way it did that in OoT was the time blocks. I just do not understand how Link could've crafted this entire adventure on the sole reasoning that he bonked his head and fell asleep. At most Link gave some information to creating Termina but could not be the sole contributor. Which is weird because it feels like the only reason to dismiss the supposed Zelda books is because Termina couldn't have been created by Majora's mask, which I feel like is a weird perspective to have, when it absolutely would make more sense that the Majora's Mask as well as Link's partial influence would make a hell of a lot more sense than solely originating from Link's mind.
For all of you out there on the fence for Raycons, I bought some recently, and while they’re pretty good for the price! They’ve been really unimpressive. I even got the more expensive pair, the black E55’s. The pain chips on these things like no other, you might as well just get white. I’ve dropped it once btw. My nails just catch the paint sometimes. Also, you’ll probably find yourself cleaning the film off of the pads often. If you don’t, it will cut off almost all sound. I do like my Raycons, but I felt sorta tricked about the little things. Not as high quality as everyone says. The sound is nice! But the E55’s make my ears sore after a couple of hours. It’s a very tight fit with the hooks. However, I do love the noise cancellation. I also got it for $85 so it’s pretty cheap. I’m not saying don’t buy them, I’m just sharing my testimony to those who were thinking about trying them, like me. Have a great day guys!
I’m going with Real Enough-Koholint existed despite being a whale kami’s dream construct so long as said kami stayed asleep. Also, the lost woods are WEIRD and literally have shroomz as a sidequest item-aka prolly the REAL reason why people get lost and eventually transformed (regardless of the Deku Tree’s “protection” or not) So...Link faints from breathing in too many spores and shares a lucid dream with the Skullkid? (And it’s not uncommon for dreams to have yet another dream inside them.) Which, the Woods also function as a sort of early Fast Travel in OoT but...I’m just gonna go with Very Powerful Trip having Link randomly wander to where he needed to go by chance or something
He said proving it doesn't exist is easier but then only made speculative points. Like he "probably hit his head" and "he's probably still just dreaming at the end". It can't be proven wrong but it can't be proven right either. This is some new game theory levels of evidence
My take on it is that it IS a "made up world" created by Majora's Mask (much like the Wind Fish's Koholint only more sinister), but that it's affected by whoever enters it. It's clearly heavily influenced by Link's memories, but also by the Skull Kids' (I can't say much about Epona, Tatl and Tael or the mask salesman though). The Skull Kid, Tatl and Tael spent some time in Termina before acquiring Majora's Mask, but it's not implied to have been very long. Perhaps they were baited there by Majora, presumably carried by the mask salesman traveling nearby. I think the Skull Kid being abandoned by his friends is something that happened in Hyrule, but the trauma manifests itself in the form of the four giants and the mythos of Termina (intermingling somewhat with the backstory/memories of Majora himself). On some level I think the Skull Kid is aware that the four giants aren't literally his friends in the flesh but more symbolic, but they're real enough to him. So what would the ramifications of the moon falling on Termina be, then? Perhaps it would destroy the dream world and set Majora free from his mask (once again sort of like Koholint but more sinister), free to roam Hyrule as presumably in the ancient past? Perhaps hosts and visitors such as Skull Kid and Link were required for Majora's power to take form enough to free itself? That's my take, anyway. I like it far better than Termina being either real or a dream... =') And if Termina existed physically for a little while, it's possible for Link to carry items made in the world out of it again, right? Or maybe Termina disappeared shortly after and the items with it, but this event taking place after the credits.
I like the "Terminal is Real" idea better. And for your information, I DEFINITELY count that Majora's mask in breath of the wild! XD the mask salesman said the evil power was gone at the end of the game, who says it can't still be kicking around!
Termina is a real place in the Zelda multiverse. Tatl tells you that she and her brother meet the Skull Kid in Termina. It’s also theorized that the Skull Kid in Twilight Princess is the same Skull Kid from Majora’s Mask. If true that means that Skull Kids are capable of living for a long time so the Skull Kid being from ancient times isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
The flower by the tree stump where the skull kid drew link and himself could be the silent princess flower only back in the past before thought to die out
What's your favorite mask from Majora's Mask? Mine is... the Stone Mask! So creepy.
EDIT: I am REALLY enjoying all the diverse feedback!! This really was a topic that hits differently with everyone! Please remember to be kind when debating, ya'll
Mine is Romani mask due to me wearing it often
If you count it as one: The Bunny Hood.
I don’t know how I could run around without it lol
Majora's Mask xD
Giants mask
I like the korok one!
I always hated the "Termina was a dream" theory. Here are some points against it.
1. Link's Awakening. In that game, the island and everyone on it is just a dream. Throughout the game, bosses, NPCs, and a painting all hint (or outright say) that this isn't real. Majora's Mask has none of that.
2. The books say Termina stopped existing after Link left. The credits of Majora's Mask show otherwise.
3. A director's interview exists somewhere where the game's director mentions it being real. Granted, as different people are brought on to work on new games, lore can change, but this would mean all lore in MM itself was supposed to be real while in development.
4. There is the statement many make that things from Termina are just recreations of things Link or Skullkid saw in Hyrule (Malon to Romani, etc). But then there is enemies like Gyorg. Gyorg has many similarities to Gyorgs seen on Wind Waker and Phantom Hour Glass (purpleish pink body, dark gray face with a horn on it, roughly ship sized). Gyorgs tend to live far at sea in the series and Link in Oot never even visits the coast. The closest he gets to seeing something like Gyorg is the regular shark in Lake Hylia's laboratory. Then there's the question of whether Skullkid would have seen one, which... I don't really know.
5. One of the memories of Skullkid takes place in Termina. We can even find said spot in Termina. Skullkid also knows Termina's four giants, and was friends with them.
6. Many characters that Link has never seen before. One is obviously Tingle. Some have claimed that Tingle is a weird memory of Link, yet Tingle re appears in other Zelda games set in Hyrule Wind Waker, Swords Adventure, outfit in Triforce Heroes). Some others are Kafei, his parents, and the blacksmiths, all who have zero counterparts in Hyrule.
7. Phantom Ganon. In Wind Waker, Phantom Ganon returns (I assume Ganon was re-hiring). In this game, he has a sword. On this sword is writing, which translates to the names of the blacksmiths from Termina (uniquely, the same design for Phantom Ganon is used in Four Swords Adventure, the timeline where Phantom Ganon wasn't banished. There, he doesn't have the names on the sword).
8. Ganon has no Termina counterpart. Ganon has haunted the thoughts of some Links, including Link to the Past Link. In Link's Awakening, the final nightmare takes the forms of some of Link's foes, including Ganon and his disguise Aganim. If Termina was made from Oot Link's mind, you think something similar would happen.
9. Fierce Deity mask returns in Triforce Heroes (admittedly, this point is a little weak). Triforce Heroes had an update that added the Pit of Trials. At the end, you gained the Fierce Deity costume. If Termina wasn't real, then why would this be here? (This point is weak because it was added in an update, and wasn't part of the base game, so it's canon is ambiguous).
10. Lorule. One of the biggest points people tell me is that Termina had people who looked exactly like those from Hyrule, so it must be a dream. Did anyone remember A Link Between Worlds? Lorule is an alternate version of Hyrule, complete with alternate people. Quite a few look exactly the same or have the exact name (Dampe is still named Dampe, just like MM. His only difference is that he's purple. The priest in the temple two feet from him is exactly the same as Hyrule).
*yes*
BUT like MM, the Wind Fish appears after Link in Links Awakening wakes up so its similar
This... is all actually really solid evidence. This actually convinced me.
Ganondorf was going to be in one of the fishing holes in MM3D, but was scrapped.
@@YodaSphinx Wasn't the Wind Fish real? The island was a dream, specifically the dream of the Wind Fish, but the Wind Fish himself was a real entity.
Ah yes, Termina, otherwise known as Schrödinger’s Realm.
Ok I’m actually watching the video now I just had to let that out.
My favorite realm! Or is it?
Lmao
Kek
best one xD!
Oh, boy. I love your theories, Bandit, but as somebody who devoted nearly a year of his life to studying this game...there are some major oversights here.
It’s actually impossible, according to the game, for Termina NOT to be real. See, Skull Kid meets the fairies in Termina-something Tatl remembers-long before he had Majora’s Mask. And Tatl clearly is shown existing before Link is thrown from his horse-she’s the reason it happens!
Skull Kid is clearly ancient. For one, he is likely also the one from Twilight Princess, which takes place long after MM. Him jumping between worlds is not much of a stretch, considering we see him do it repeatedly.
There is also a lot of evidence that Majora’s Mask itself originated from Termina. In addition to the obvious inclusion of its shape in Stone Tower, the Secret Shrine is filled with knockoff heart-shaped-masks and schematics to open Stone Tower. Everything in Ikana is repeatedly stated to have happed long ago-Dampe’s grandfather spoke of it as ancient history. (Stone Tower and Snowhead Temple both have artwork of the giants, too.)
Skull Kid’s entire reason to stealing the mask is predicated on his relation with the Giants.
The trippy world-transition is similar to other world transitions. Look at A Link Between Worlds-it’s literally interdimensional paint.
The Hero’s Bow comes from Termina, and also appears in Twilight Princess.
Epona was not sent to Romani Ranch-as I recall, Romani mentions that she found the horse lost and took her in.
The whole War of the Garo clearly happened long ago-and Skull Kid did not set off Ikana’s demise (that was likely the Garo Master releasing Gomess). Skull Kid merely renewed the spirits’ restlessness.
I could go on for hours. But I’ll stop here. The game itself, Link becoming involved, none of it would have happened were Termina not already real. Besides, the developers clearly intended it to be real-not only did the manual say so, but they spent so much time on subtle world building DESPITE the development limits...
Thanks for reading!
I'd like to believe Termina is a true parallel to Hyrule like Lorule. But your arguments are flawed.
You can't use evidence from the "dream" section of the game to argue against the theory. With only the intro immune to an easy refutation of "But that was just part of the dream". Your much better off picking apart the assertion that it is a dream at all.
I typically don't think about it too much, but I have noticed that when I was tinkering with various game maps to figure out how Hyrule's borders have grown over the thousands of years of its history, I've found that the map in OoT vaguely resembles parts of the Great Plateau and a little further north into the "capital region" of Hyrule in BoTW (I can't remember what it's called). Parts of the SS surface map vaguely resemble other parts of the Great Plateau and a fair bit of Faron Woods, though the desert appears to have been moved. Termina's map vaguely resembles the southwest-ish area from the Great Plateau and the "capital region". TP's map also had its own vague-ish place. There are enough differences that I'm likely talking from behind myself, but those differences could also be explained away as a combination of various main settlements being moved around in whole or in part and geographical changes that happen to large pieces of land over time. I've also speculated in my own head as to whether or not the Great Sea is also further out into the oceans past those particular map borders, but that makes no sense to me.
I have tried laying a map of the Great Sea over BoTW's Hyrule to figure out which islands are which mountains, but next to none of it lined up. I tried this because there are so many easter egg-type inclusions from WW in BoTW that it got me wondering. I never did try laying it over other maps, though.
Got off-topic again. Anyhow, yes I believe Termina is real. As for the acid trip, I also have an idea for that one. Link hit his head when he fell from his horse, but I don't think it would have knocked him quite that silly, for the beating he took throughout OoT (depending on the player's experience, but technicalities aside). Since he was sensitive to the spiritual goings-on and general unrest that was creeping across Hyrule at the start of OoT and had nightmares from it, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for him to have picked up on Termina's own unrest during his unconscious state, but it probably didn't come through as clear as it did in Hyrule because he was a foreigner in Termina, and Hyrule was the land of his birth so there would be a stronger spiritual connection to it and the beings (physical and non) that lived there.
I'm interested in other peoples' takes on this.
I believe it's another mirror like Lorule I believe Majora is ganon counterpart sealed away same as Link in fierce diety there is no princess so possible that the ressurection curse chain was broken because the villian and hero are now immortal sealed away and the princess died eventually. In BoTW and BoTW2 trailer they have attempted different ways to break this cycle/curse and I think that this one was more or less successful.
I also can believe that it could be a neighbor country to Hyrule that is unknown because of its through the lost woods.
@@Durthane this is exactly why no one likes dream theories. they're too easy to find some kind of evidence of and too difficult to disprove because everything can be written off as part of the dream
THANK YOU ! Finally someone is making sense out of it !
The Hero's Bow found in Goron Mines during TP is a physical object from Termina.
Right, because Link got it in Termina, then gave it to the Gorons between MM and TP.
No it's actually the bow from Skyward Sword. It's also found in the tower of gods in Wind Waker so it definitely isn't from Termina
@@Zeldom Those are games that came after MM. Not canonically (except TP), but still.
@@CookiePieMonster Exactly. The lore of Zelda changes as each game comes out. Developer intent doesn't really play much of a factor into the lore which is even said in the Zelda Encyclopedia. Meaning that the same Bow appearing in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword all have altered the significance of the bow. Until Skyward Sword I think the argument for the bow would be valid in favor of Termina's reality, but I think that the lore of it presented in TP and SS make it very difficult for that to be the case.
Zeldom okay but if the first iteration of the hero’s bow was in skyward in the lore, and we’re going with the assumption that it’s the same bow each time we see it, doesn’t that still prove the existence of Termina?
I really feel like that tree was a portal to Termina and portals to other worlds are a very common theme in Zelda. Termina can very likely be a world that exists in the far past from when Majora wasn't sealed. Since the entire game is centered around time and the goddess of time Termina can exist anywhere at any point in time. The only set time is when Link entered the portal. Also the part with Epona: Since she and skull kid entered before Link did any amount of time could have passed in Termina before Link arrived.
Also, majora is powerful and if it had the power to move the moon I’m sure it possessed a powerful to simply have epona teleported into termina field where epona was lured by the song that can be heard in the farm.
Given that the Lost Woods gives me similar vibes to the Wood Between the Worlds in The Magician’s Nephew, this makes 100% sense to me.
Like going the right way in the Lost Woods can bring you anywhere. Or anywhen.
I really like that theory it is pretty much handcanon for me
In my opinion. Termina is real. I can't think of any other reason for The fused shadow to have matching eyes to Majora's mask.
Majoras mask existed in hyrule at one point, before the happy mask salesman was attacked by skullkid. So termina doesnt have to be real because of the fused shadow’s eyes
Edid: but then again, i think it is real because skullkid was there before he got the mask
Maybe majora's mask was inspired by the fised shadow. Besides, those eyes look totally sheikah
@@Max-si2zn twilight princess came AFTER majoras mask in game development, the fused shadow's eye was a detail to majoras mask by nintendo staff
@@nickolasgacha7185 lore wise though they are both ancient artifacts
@@askinnyball785 Exactly, that's exactly it! The *game itself* shows us Skull Kid playing with the fairies in Termina *before* it got the mask!
So the whole "Termina was created by Majoras Mask using its dark magic and Skull Kid's memories"-thing is complete nonsense, the only thing from the Zelda Encyclopedia I don't take seriously.
I think it is real, let me add something to the "carrying items out from Termina." The Hero's Bow from Twilight Princess has a direct connection to Majora's Mask. The in game description from TP is "You got the Hero's Bow! This treasure of the Gorons is said to have once belonged to a Hero from the past." The connection here is, Link in OOT needs the bow from the Forest Temple onward so in the child timeline he never has a need to go and get it. This bow is also called the "Fairy Bow." The Fairy Bow is then still locked away in the Forest Temple at the time of TP and since the bow he receives even states that this once belonged to a Hero from the past it could be one of 5 games before it, Skyward Sword, Minish Cap, Four Swords, OOT or MM. MM fits the best here due to it being the only one with the same name. Granted this does have holes in it, people can just rename a bow, simple enough answer and the name of the bow from Wind Waker is the same. Also as someone stated in the comments, why is a Skull Kid guarding the Master Sword in TP? Or the better question, What makes this Skull Kid important to the previous hero to have his trust to do so?
I never thought of that, and had i done so, should have put it in my comment
Kinda went ham with my reasoning lol
@@RikenzuPlays you did hit a lot of good points in yours. Your 4th point is a perfect example of showing how Termina is easily real in that sense with using other games as examples. I think LBW is the best example of that, because it shows that the travel can happen you just need to find the way through. Overall enjoyed reading yours.
I really love the points you provided, I would like to add that even if Termina doesn't exist you asked why would the Hero of the Past be so important to skull kid? Well I feel like there's two reasons 1) in OOT as a small part in the Mask side quest, Link actually meets and be friends Skull Kid and gives him a Skull Kid. One could even say skull kid only obtained the name Skull Kid after he got the Mask from Link. I have no evidence to back that up tho. The other point is that Link and Skull Kid share a key connection, they were both friends of Sahria. Maybe when she knew that she needed to attend her duties she told skull kid to guard the master sword until the Hero that is destined to wield the master sword appears. Just small ideas
It can’t be wind Walker since it’s on a different timeline. And I don’t know much about ss so I don’t know but I don’t think he had that much connection with the Gorons unlike the hero of time. Darunia literally named his child after him and calls him a true brother so it makes sense he left it with them
Just one minor fact-check: The Triforce can actually be found in Termina. It's on the bottom of the block-shaped statues that are found in the Stone Tower. There are some images of it and a theory in this pretty old Zelda Universe article - zeldauniverse.net/2006/11/03/the-stone-tower-why-termina-was-doomed/
Thank you, I just read that and it was awesome 😊
@Flying Melon Yeah. I don't think a Skull Kid ages (if at all), similar to Stal enemies.
In Skyward Sword, it is said that the TriForce can not be weilded by gods. So it makes sense that they created Termina (like they did with Hyrule), their creations turned against them and the Golden Goddesses tried to destroy it (or let them destroy themselves) but other Gods (the 4 giants) prevented the end of Termina.
A few thoughts:
One thing that makes me want Termina to be real is the Happy Mask Salesman. I don't honestly think Link could "imagine" him with the perspectives, attitudes, and motivations he has in MM, just based on his actions in OoT. And considering where Link finds him and what he knows, Happy Mask Salesman also CAME to Termina knowingly.
Secondly, I know it's kinda "tetraforce"-y, and on the whole I take the creators' word that the tetraforce isn't a thing, but I think it makes sense that Termina is a land where Hylia is important, but Din, Farore, and Nayru aren't. And in that sense, it's not a "dark" world or an inverted world, but rather a world dominated by a fixation on *time*. Sure, the moon crashing into Termina and our ability to turn back time are circumstantial, but Ikana is reenacting an eternal war regardless. The historic events of Termina feel like they could have been 1000 years ago or yesterday. And I feel like that's by design. Time is cyclical in Termina by nature, and it's living in a state of perpetual repetition of a late-stage whether the moon is crashing or not. Us actually resetting time is just another layer. That's my impression anyway.
I personally think it was a dream state practice run during the seven years he slept in the chamber of sages. That's why he got to do it over and over until he got it right.
It's definately real. Otherwise the hero's shade would've never sung the song of healing
This isn’t the best evidence even if it were a dream. He could’ve just remembered the song from his dream. I don’t agree with the dream theory, but there is much better evidence to disprove it than this.
But he would have remembered it from the dream that I’d Majoras mask
I think Termina is real too, but if Link really was just unconscious the Happy Mask Salesman could be a subconscious concept that Link may have been inspired to composed the Song of Healing himself whilst dreaming of Termina and all it’s inhabitants that resemble Hyrule’s. Just a thought.
Sang
Andrew Healis the best evidence is that Aonuma himself said that it was supposed to be another land.
As a hysterical wrestling fan once said at a convention....”it’s still real to me, damnit!!!”
Fuckin feels!
MARKS!!
Yaaaas boi/gurl
One of the developers of Majora’s Mask said that Termina lies closely to Hyrule.
I don't get why they just can't leave it as "Termina is a parallel world". How would it be in the same universe if most of the NPCs look exactly like characters from OoT. There's just so much that implies it's a parallel world and not some other country. The whole "it was just a dream" explanation is honestly lame if you ask me.
Oooh that is interesting I wonder if the mario has somthing similiar to Termina
It could be "close" to Hyrule in the sense of some Parallel Worlds/Dimensions being "close" to some more than others.
Imagine every Parallel World is suspended, or floating, in some void, like our Solar System. Some worlds would be closer than others, just like how Earth is much closer to Mars than Neptune.
What if just like in Mario 64 with all the paintings, the lost woods are just portals to parallel world's?
@@elitegamer9310 To be frank, they wanted to make a new game but were forced to reuse assets and crunch to put out a game in under a year. This was their tradeoff for not having to make an Ocarina of Time expansion. They clearly intended Termina to be a new and very real place.
Speaking of who created Termina, when you speak to that giant turtle in great bay, he says that the gods might allow him enjoying Lulu's voice before watching the world in his slumber. So that implies that there is gods in Termina.
Majora's Mask is definitely real. The analysis of the lost woods is too thin. If we think about the connection between skull kid; the endless, multifaceted, and unknown elements of the lost woods; as well as the deku Butler and his son and how the son is found in the first portion of the game and the deku scrub symbol closes us off from the early section then it is easy to see the lost woods connecting different worlds just as it did in the ocarina of time and how epona could have her own route to termina (undisclosed to the player).
Also it is the best game so it has to be real.
The kokiri forest is also set apart from Hyrule because it connects a few different worlds and serves as the first town in twilight princess and is connected to southern swamp in Majora's Mask.
Later we will find that Majora's Mask was created by the zonai
The zonai may aswell have created Lowrule, The sacred realm and the twilight realm while they’re at it
Considering that originally it was considered a parallel world (even in the game's manual) then I would say it is 100% real. There's also the Ikana, the Garo, Kafei, Mayor Dotour, Madame Aroma, and so many other new characters and elements in the game that aren't from Hyrule.
As for the Encyclopedia, it's specifically mentioned that it is the interpretation of the authors. Not canon. As with everything in the series, interpretation takes a large part in the idea that it's not real, but since most of the evidence for it not being real is speculation while the evidence for it being real is specifically given in-game, I think it's safe to say that Termina is VERY real.
So is it a parallel world? And not some other country that for mysterious reason has characters that look exactly like those of Hyrule
@@ChaoticHoly Gotta agree with you there. It's a shame we never saw a Terminian equivalent to zelda though
@@ApersonIguess-rb6fu There's even some slight hints that Kafei, the man who was turned into a child (sound familiar?) is parallel to Link, the Hero of Time.
Quit taking one piece of one quote in one of the Goddess Trilogy books out of context to support your headcanon. The Encyclopedia IS canon. It was thoroughly and carefully supervised, authorized, and helped made by the Zelda devs themselves. That IS the official explanation for Termina’s existence - it was indeed a real parallel world, but one which ceased to exist after Majora was defeated.
@NinjaGamer13 "Where necessary, the writers [who aren't Nintendo] of this book added their own interpretations and expanded upon the games' stories. It should be noted that the events described here are also subject to revision, as new trials may await the people of Hyrule in ages to come."
-Quote from Hyrule Encyclopedia
They literally admit that some of this stuff is never confirmed, and the writers either made up or drew conclusions which they used in the book. I'm not saying that the book is useless, I've read and enjoyed it for some time now. But the games are the true canon, not the extra reference sources. The developers have stated over and over about how the series is open to interpretation, and I doubt they'd just throw that away and say "forget it, listen to this book now."
therapist: Termina isnt real.... it cant hurt you.
Grinning Moon: 🌝 THREE DAYS! I WILL CONSUME!!!
An argument for proving that Termina is real could be that the Hero’s Shade sings the Song of Healing to Wolf Link. How could The Hero of Time have learned this without actually being in the world of Termina?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._7_(Bruckner)
Just one example, but there are many of people dreaming not only new pieces of music, but even mathematical formulas and breakthroughs.
There's also that in Twilight Princess the Hero's Bow was said to be left behind by a previous hero and guarded by the Gorons as a sacred treasure. Who had the Hero's Bow before TP Link? The Hero of Time. Who had a strong relationship with the Gorons and was the chief's "sworn brother?" The Hero of Time. The Hero's Bow was only in Majora's Mask. In Ocarina of Time it was the Fairy Bow meaning if Majora's Mask never happened and was only a dream, the Hero's Bow wouldn't exist
Yeah okay, I'm sure after all that brain damage Link can really remember several songs that he learned in a single dream. Not only that, but remembering these songs past death sounds ridiculous.
Sam Brown yes yes yes yes yes
during the "Termina isn't real" part of the video I was just screaming "TALK ABOUT TINGLE COWARD"
that combined with things like Tatl existing before Link hits his head, and how the Twilight Princess Skull Kid is likely the same one, i don't see how it can't be real.
The mayor isn’t the only brand new character though. The bombers are brand new aren’t they? And most of the unique Gorons and Zora are new. ALL of the unique Deku Scrub tribe are new. I also find it strange that, if Termina is a figment of Link’s delirium, why aren’t there any Kokiri or characters based on them? Surely those characters would be extremely important to Link (especially Saria) and would play big roles in his dream?
Nah, my vote definitely goes to Termina being an alternate reality. The entrance being located in a tree isn’t that surprising if you think about the forest that tree is found in: the Lost Woods. A place chock full of magic and mystery.
The bombers were created from the model of the kid in the graveyard that wants to be like Dampé... but other than that I think you're right about all the other new models.
I believe there is actually someone who could be based on Saria, though she's an adult and not a child.
Yes, Lost Wood is full of magic and mystery! Portals to other worlds may very well exist there. Remember, in OoT there were two portals there as well; one to Goron City and one to Zora's River.
I do believe that Termina is real, the "Termina is a dream" arguments are just too easy in my opinion, even if "the" skullkid being there is weird, but like Navi in OoT says, children in the lost woods can become skullkids, which implies there can be more than one skullkid, so the skullkid in MM doesn't necessarily need to be the OoT one, right? Edit: ok yes he could be the same one haha good points guys
In addition I don't believe the Termina characters are counterparts of OoT characters. I tend to keep in mind that MM was made in a very short amount of time and they just reused all of those character models without them being the same character per se, haha.
There are three skull kids in OoT so there are definitely multiple skull kids.
"You're that kid who taught me that song in the forest." I'm paraphrasing, but it's in the game.
In the end of MM the skull kid said to link "you have the same smell as the kid who taught me that song in the Forrest." So he's definitely the same SkullKid
As an Aside, that SkullKid could be the same one from Twilight Princess as well, being that he knew Saria's song and played it throughout the Forrest while guiding twilight link to the secret place to pick up the Master Sword, and temple of time.
Just saying, Link would have the same "smell" as Saria so to speak since they both grew up in the Kokiri Forest. Saria could have taught her song to the Skull kid, and then Skull Kid from MM simply recognized the smell.
@Legend Zone, doesn’t that still mean that the skull kid in termina was originally in hyrule since saria is in hyrule?
I think it does exist, in Links Awakening they tell you directly that its a dream, while they dont in majoras mask.
Also parallel worlds are cool :D
I've always thought that not only is Termina real, but it is in fact Northern Hyrule; the starting point for The Adventure of Link!
We've got Ruto and Rauru Towns in the northern mountains, Mido Town and the King's Tomb in Ikana Canyon, and Saria Town by the Zora's Bay! And there's a swamp, too!
... Alright, so the geography doesn't match up perfectly, but remember how Death Mountain used to be to the west? And Spectacle Rock used to be to the North? Just sayin'...
As far as I’m concerned with the Zelda franchise, geography not lining up doesn’t mean it’s not the same place. Most Hyrules have pretty different geographies from one another.
Termina is an alternate universe. There are many characters that only appear in it, Skull Kids seem to be immortal, and the lost woods seems to never end in almost every game it appears in.
Termina is Real 2401
:D
My headcanon has always had this down to a simple statement;
Hyrule has an immense, impassable desert to it's West
Whereas Termina (thanks in big part to the Twinmold fight location confirming it) has an immense, impassable desert to it's East
Has anyone ever actually scrutinised this particular idea?
Also, my "Termina is not real" headcanon is basically - Termina is a land where all kids lost in the Lost Woods will visit. Whether they escape and stay as a human or become a fully-fledged Skull Kid is entirely dependent on them traversing this land and finishing the quest set out for them. Termina represents "The Self", and the fate of the Moon crashing down signifies the destruction of "The Self" and the rebirth as a Skull Kid - Skull Kid himself in this theory representing "The New Self", the thing Link will become if he cannot overcome the obstacles placed before him
Thats very deep and very interesting way to interprate the world of majoras mask
I really like both of those
The "deserts being connected" logic doesn't really fit... If the Desert Colossus in Hyrule was connected to Ikana Valley in Termina, then how did Link get there from the Lost Woods? You gotta remember, Kokiri Forest and the Lost Woods were on the opposite side of Gerudo Desert in Ocarina of Time's Hyrule. Going east to get to a country that is in the west makes no sense at all, especially if your entry point puts you in the center of said country.
But to the people saying "Termina isn't Real", then wouldn't that mean that the Lorule isn't real either? They are both alternate dimensions that exist parallel to Hyrule, and they each have dopplegangers of people who exist in Hyrule. Link, Zelda, Ganon and Dampe had counterparts in Lorule, and pretty much every lesser NPC (excluding the Kokiri) in Ocarina of Time's version of Hyrule had a counterpart in Termina.
@@meleefox3218 your point about the desert is completely valid, however when entering the Twinmold battle from Stone Tower Temple, you get to the desert through a kind of portal. The entrance to Termina through the Lost Woods could also exist as a portal, with all it's weird colourful clocks and masks.
My theory is that Termina is real, not so much as a parallel universe but a distant land, and the only reason Link manages to get there is because of the strange portal. It's not entirely impossible as warping to other locations within the same world is VERY commonplace in the Zelda series, inlcuding in OoT and MM themselves. Termina could quite well be on the other side of the world from Hyrule. I know this doesn't explain the counterparts of Hyrulean citizens like Malon/Romani and so on, but I think there were enough new models in MM to suggest that the reused models are not supposed to be parallels, but was just a result of the time constraints the developers were under.
Anyways, I think Termina is real in some shape or form, and more MM content is always appreciated. :)
@@meleefox3218 The thing is, we see Link travel to many different lands throughout the whole series and through many different ways
Portal through the Lost Woods into Termina
The Triforce itself transporting Link to Holodrum (Oracle of Seasons) and Labrynna (Oracle of Ages), and then the further land of Subrosia which, even though it's physically located underneath Holodrum, is only accessible via Portals
Subrosia is important, because it sets the precedent that just because a landmass exists, doesn't mean it's easily accessible, or even accessible at all through normal means - Even though Subrosia is literally below Holodrum (we know 100% that Subrosia is below Holodrum as the Temple of the Seasons is sunken from Holodrum and ends up in Subrosia), you can't dig your way into it. You can only get there via the Portals presumably created by the Subrosians
Similarly, if you can't dig your way through Holodrum into Subrosia? Maybe you can't cross the Gerudo Desert into Termina. For whatever reason yet unexplained, portals are the answer to many of Link's problems :P
Personally, I like to believe that Termina is real, both because I don’t like “it all happened in their head” theories, as well as the fact that the Happy Mask Salesman is one of my favorite characters in the series, and the level of creepy and evil aura that he just has to him is amazing and I love to believe that that’s real.
“It all happened in their head” Can work for literally any game, film, or even for real life!
Basically, life is just all that happens in your head.
Just because a dream isn't real doesn't mean that it was based on real things a lot of what happened in MM could have reflected link's trama in OOT of losing his friends like Sariah and that is why death is a common theme in this game.
I can agree that the Masked Salesman is a mysterious and supernatural being, but not evil. That doesn't square the the MS conversation with link at the end of MM, where he states Link was able to "make a lot of people happy" and congratulates him for it. That would indicate he is some sort of angel-like or possibly god-like being sent as a "guardian" or "aid" to Link.
If Termina is real, and all that really happened, and the Skull Kid really is ancient, then it also explains his appearance in Twilight Princess. Guarding the Master Sword, because Link asked him to.
Well the idea that the Skull Kid is ancient, therefore being possibly immortal, would explain his possible appearance in Twilight Princess, which is set centuries after Majora's Mask.
I still like to think that Termina is real and NOT a figment of Link's imagination
I think that the events of Majora's Mask are real. Link's Awakening(GBA and Switch) had an ending scene with Link waking up with nothing. If Link woke up in Majora's Mask, Link wouldn't have his equipment in the credits, unless there was a scraped end credit scene.
In the wise words of Dumbledore: : "Of course it's happening inside your head. But why does that mean it isn't real?"
Im not sure if Termina is real BUT i think it should be used for theories either way because it still holds tangible lore that relates and ties into other games
Guy1811 good to see one with appreciation for both the Harry Potter and Zelda universes.
It’s a bit hard to dismiss as a dream when the franchise has done 100% real universes other than Hyrule so, so many times. That is definitely not concrete evidence, but I definitely lean towards the “real” side
The skull kid in twilight princess could also be the same skull kid from majora's mask. Also the bow you get in twilight princess shares a name with the one in majora's mask.
Sleepy B0i
The bow is assumed to be from termina and then given away in hyrule
"the woods go on forever"
it's the lost woods! looping in on themselves is 100% the norm. Termina is real
Koholint was more than just a regular dream, thanks to the power of the Wind Fish. It had its own reality. I believe that Termina also "exists" in some sense, and does have some impact on the Hyrule we know.
It's somewhat implied that in twilight princess the skull kid protecting the master sword is the same skull kid from ocarina of time / majoras mask, under that impression it's pretty easy to believe that the skull kid is in fact ancient, and could have been alive for thousands of years both before and after the events of ocarina of time / majoras mask.
Im so glad you did a theory on Majora's mask it's my favorite game of all time
I like your profile picture
There's no "theory"
It was confirmed to be a parallel universe.
End of story.
"When did I make this many videos??"
I don't know, but I'm glad you made all this Zelda content 😄
I personally believe that Termina exists as the kingdom west of Hyrule in OoT. So let's combine the two maps and see how close we get. The biggest border similarity is the ruined kingdom of Ikana and Gerudo Desert/Valley. The Lost woods is most likely far greater in size than we anticipate as well. I presume it wraps around the southern side of Lake Hylia. And a quick reminder that the Lost Woods is connected to both Death Mountain and Zora's Domain. Now what if a little more westward Lake Hylia and the Lost Woods merge together? Combine a forest and a large body of water and you get a swamp which just so happens to be right around Woodfall. And to top it all off a Northwestern ice mountain...hmmm. That map sounds relatively familiar. It just so happens to be almost the entirety of Hyrule in Botw. The freezing heights and plateaus are the remants of Ikana, the Gerudo desert being south of that, and Snowhead being north of that. And east of the gerudo desert is a covered wooded area south of Lake Hylia no less. If the land expanded further west, you'd likely find Clock Town more swamp area further south of the desert, and of course furthest west being Great Bay. And across the several thousand years that have passed since the hero of time are likely the cause of any further map discrepancies.
As for the counterparts of characters, well all I can say is that Termina and Hyrule are on the same continent leading to people having the same races. Whether it be immigration, or natural occurrence I couldn't say, but I lean towards immigration due to the Goron's no way thriving in Snowhead in comparison to Death Mountain, meanwhile the Zora's would thrive much more in Great Bay over Zora's Domain. And Darmani was carved on Death Mountain in Botw too. So it's likely Daruk was just as much of a significance to the Death Mountain Gorons as Snowhead. (I wish I could throw Twilight Princess mapping into this since Botw 2 is apparently going to have quite a significance from Twilight Princess but my history is too rocky with the game. I play the Wii version just as much as the WiiU version and I don't really know the canonical map nor could I say which one belongs to which game. XD )
Don't forget, in one of the games after,(I think TP) MM has the Hero's Bow, which adds credence to the idea he brought his Termina gear with him
Please talk about Terminian counterparts in all future videos!!!
Also amazing Raycon promo, was super creative!!
I liked the ad too
Don't see why it's hard to imagine Skull Kid being much older than he looks and sounds, considering that the one you meet during Twilight Princess plays Saria's song, and the game being set in the child timeline along with Majora's Mask. The only thing that really throws some doubt into the mix is how his face appears to have changed from the scarecrow-like one from the N64 games, to something that sort of resembles the mask that once controlled him, though that could be chalked up to a stylistic difference given Twilight Princess was meant to be "realistic" looking due to the clamor of some fans.
Sadly to break the 666, I totally believe Termina Exists. Zelda has a lot of weird stuff, Termina has to exist.
I think Termina is real honestly, cause the Lost woods can be seen as a portal to other places too
Personally I believe that Termina is like the Wind Fish’s dream, fake at first but became real to those who stumbled across it. Most of Termina may have perished once Link was able to stop the Mask and thus save the land, but pieces such as Link’s gear, Epona, and the Skull Kid were able to be saved from the ending dream because of they either already existed before or were had strong ties to the hero.
As for the Happy Mask Salesman and •groan• Tingle •gags•, the HMS was the one who created Termina (not my theory, someone else’s - please check it; it’s pretty good) so it explains why he wasn’t all that effected and even was aware of almost everything that happened. As for Tingle.... I dunno. Maybe it was supposed to be his dream until HMS made it into the Mask’s prison. Maybe there even is a real place and Tingle was on his way there until HMS made his dream a trap and prison for the Mask. Quite frankly, I don’t care about Tingle very much. His creepiness outweighs HMS’s shocking psychotic tendencies for me....-_-;
I mean one of the creators (Miyamoto If I remember right) of MM did say in interview that, it was not a dream, it really happened and is in fact a real place link traveled too..
I think termina is real. Especially with the flashback the fairy companion has about she and her brother meeting the skull kid for the first time.
i think WE’RE not real. 😳
(no no but seriously i think.... that termina does exist)
One thing I can say about the epona theory is that time works differently in termina than it does in Hyrule, from the time link bumps into skull kid to when he meets majora down the tree stump it was only a few moments for the player but to majora it must’ve been at least a few days since he was able to cause a lot of trouble for the people of termina. when first meeting skull kid at the beginning of the game he wasn’t being controlled by majora just yet , so it could’ve been a gradual process. When meeting with majora at the bottom of the tree stump I would assume it was shortly after he got full control of skull kids body considering tadl and tale were still with him , unlike at the end of the game where he ends up abusing tale and tadl renouncing their friendship , giving light that tadl had no idea about skull kids possessions and also showing how scared tale is of majora. Saying all that , it’s more likely termina is in an alternate dimension, lots of the characters from ocarina of time to majoras mask have their personality reversed . It wouldn’t be the first time a Zelda game had alternative counterparts for the characters of the game ,there should be enough time before skill kids full possession to have “ gotten rid “ of epona, all skull kid did was play pranks.
MNB: *makes a video*
Raycon: It’s free real estate
I think the fact that the music and some of the relics still exist after Majora's Mask, mainly in Twilight princess, and that I believe that the Twilight Realm has connection Majora's origins, Termina was real or at least as real as the island in Link's awakening.
Even if the world no longer exists, it was tangible and had true life in it.
I have multiple theories on Termina, and only one of them even comes close to the "dream" idea.
I rolled my eyes at MatPat's Link is dead theory, but it did get the gears in my brain turning. I came up with a theory that Termina was the Hero of Time's purgatory. He lived his whole life, had children, but died with regrets, and his own personal purgatory threw him back to the time his regrets manifested. After returning to his own time and living in a reality where no one would ever know his name or his deeds. It sticks him in a 3-day loop of dealing with that exact issue over and over and over again. He throws himself into danger time and time again, only to be forgotten again in the end. It's almost like a healing process, teaching him the impact of his actions are more important than the legacy he leaves behind. This is why there's so many familiar faces and the world is so surreal. It's his own personal hell. I don't believe this is really what Termina is, but man, it's fun to think about
It's more likely an alternate dimension specifically ruled by the goddess of time. When it's in peril, she drags Link there with the Ocarina of Time to prevent it's downfall.
Alternatively, it's a very, very, VERY distant modern future and Link merely jumped through a wormhole.
I stand by the alternate dimension theory though.
How about the fact that in The Wind Waker, it is said that the triforce of courage broke into pieces and scattered throughout hyrule, when the legendary hero left the kingdom of hyrule for new adventures.
If Termina is a seperate world, then it could explain why the triforce shattered and spread throughout hyrule, since the triforce is power of the gods left behind for Hyrule. It could also explain why the hero in The Wind Waker had no connection to the legendary hero in Hyrule legend.
In Twilight princess, the dead legendary hero who teaches the current incarnation of the legendary hero, has an unknown kind of armor not from Hyrule. It could be that armor is actually from Termina, or at least another kingdom Link had travelled to after leaving Termina.
It’s shown in Ocarina of Time that the great godesses passed over Hyrule, granting it life. Perhaps they went on to forge other worlds, such as Termina. Their power could easily bridge multiple worlds together. This is proven by the mirror of twilight, which is a gateway to another existence, the twilight dimension.
While I pretty much agree with you, I believe that the hero's shade as well as that game's darknuts is actually knights of hyrule, making that unfamiliar armor hylian armor. NBC has made a video covering this theory called "How Link is RELATED to DARKNUTS!"
MaskedNintendoBandit: "Termina is made up."
Thor: "All worlds are made up."
The flower next to the tree stump with the drawing on it sort of reminds me of the silent princess flowers from BOTW.
My headcanon is that Termina is simultaneously a dream, an actual area in Zelda's world, and a parallel, future version of Hyrule.
First of all, Majora's mask reuses assets in the same way a dream would often include distorted versions of familiar faces. Masks are a trend in OoT, and so it would be pretty easily to imagine that someone would have a nightmare about them. Some masks are even shown to have magical properties. MM also includes many different dream-like elements, including falling for a very long time into a pit, searching for something, arbitrary conditions and constraints, etc. So it can be concluded that MM is actually a nightmare Link has based on his previous adventure.
However, prophecy, telepathy, and other predicting abilities have been shown to exist in Zelda, and there's absolutely no reason for Link's dream not to be prophetic. We can see a very similar land to Termina in a later game-Lorule. Lorule seems almost like Hyrule's bleak future, where the Triforce is gone. Monsters are everywhere; religion and the belief in the Triforce have all but vanished; people are hopeless and vulnerable to dark magic's corrupting energy; and masks are everywhere, used as a means of protection. Termina may be a vision of Lorule's future. Perhaps, Termina was a warning to Link. Perhaps, the goddesses gave Link this vision to show him what Hyrule could become if the hero's spirit dies, thus leading him to take action, teaching the new Link his techniques and moves as the Hero's Shade. And (/or) perhaps, maybe this dream, across lifetimes, allowed Link to gain the urgency to save Lorule in LBW. This works especially well if it were a dream, since it could have been any Link who dreamed it.
As well, if you use camera mods and zoom out as far as you can in Breath of the Wild, you'll notice something. The Gerudo Desert extends far beyond where it needs to, the sand extending for miles beyond the field of play. Once zoomed out, you can clearly make out, encompassing the entire desert, four identically-sized circles, meeting in the center of the desert. And the eastern circle has a cutout to the ocean in an oddly familiar way. One can assume that this area is actually Termina, long before, or long after, anyone lived there.
Combining these, maybe in a darker timeline, Hyrule's Triforce was destroyed as a last resort, or stolen by invaders. Because of this, Hyrule enters a long state of decline, eventually being renamed Lorule. Sheikah culture resurges, with masks gaining a heavy cultural significance, not to mention magical powers. Without the Triforce, even the decidedly un-shadowy Hylians (Lolians?) take on traits similar only to those who spend their lives exposed to shadow magic. The normal Hyrule's Link of the time is shown a prophecy of this timeline's, or rather the inevitable future's, logical conclusion, as a warning, or as a call to action: fleeing the monsters that swarmed Hyrule when the Triforce stopped existing, the people of Hyrule fled deep into the Gerudo Desert, settling in its center. Without any hope in religion or magical relics, the Loruleans had advanced their technology, and now used it to fortify their capital. They created magical relics of their own, with their new cultural iconography, masks. They trapped evil in these masks, to seal it away, but eventually a curious Skull Kid used the evil powers of one such mask in order to accelerate the ruin of the land. Eventually the dying land is fully destroyed. This vision is shown to Link perhaps to imprint on his memory what could happen in the far-off future. Or maybe it isn't shown to OoT Link at all, but instead to LBW Link, to warn him of what could befall the world if he does not save Lorule.
I like the *Termina is real* theory. “It never happened” theories are just…I hate them so much. It’s just so dismissive, and boring! The game is WORSE (in a meta way) if it never happened! Everything becomes so pointless!
It drives me mad, genuinely. All that time and effort the story writers and lore team put in and everyone just says “lol never happened, you can just ignore that one’s existence and just play the other games.” It devalues so much of the effort they put into it
AT THE VERY LEAST, Termina being a dream was a dream made into reality by the Mask, which is why the Skull Kid shares the same dream, and why Link’s shield and sword come back with him to reality. I mean, the Mask can create the world on the moon, and the room you fight it in for the final battle. Why couldn’t it literally, physically manifest Termina?
That’s the only “it’s not real” theory I will ever accept
When links mother left him with deko tree she became a skullkid
So when young link was fighting off the skullkid curse of the lost woods. Winning means he enters the Twilight attack
I haven't even watched the video yet, but I'm gonna say Termina does exist, because I would love to see you include it in more theories.
Personally I think it’s real look at the songs in twilight princess or the statue in botw.
ive got to say, i love the vibe of your videos. youre probably one of my favourite zelda youtubers
I do think termina is an alternate dimension for a few reasons- first, the way time works so differently. The ocarina of time has an even more pronounced effect there, despite not being in hyrule, so it could be a skewed version of Link's homeland, and time being different could explain why the skullkid seems to have been there so long. Second, The world itself, while not having the same lore as Hyrule is quite similar- a group of gods come together to create a land and peoples to populate its varied locations. They eventually leave, but promise to return to use their power if they are called ( gathering the triforce for a divine wish.) Majora is a demonic entity somewhere in the lands past that wants only to toy with the people and cause chaos and destruction (Demise) who is brought down by a stronger being (Fierce Diety?/Link) and held at bay for a period of time in a prison of sorts( mask/ reincarnation as Ganondorf) until they are released into the world again. Obviously this could easily be picked apart, but the timeline is nothing if not full of holes in logic, and I feel like the dream aspect is kind of a lazy way to justify the game.
I think Termina is an alternate reality that was created along side Hyrule.
I think it's distorted reflection of past events that involved Stalkid and Majora and came into and out of existence just as the Zelda Encyclopedia states. I also think the Encyclopedia leaves plenty of room for it to be brought back at any time.
Possibly same dimension as Lorule? If the Encyclopedia says it's it's own thing, then yeah. But perhaps there's a middle ground.
There's definitely more questions about Termina and the skull kid if it is real, so saying it was just a dream seems more plausible. But both sides would make sense
The Skull Kid being the same one CAN be explained through time displacement. The Skull Kid found the way to Termina after he met Link, but when he entered it, time slowed down for him, as he witnessed Termina being created, but when going back to Hyrule with the Mask on and seeing Link and Epona, not as much time had passed. So theoretically speaking, a year in Termina may be the equivalent to a minute in Hyrule
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On the first cutscene, you see link enters a twisted path then he end up in termina.
Kinda similar to the twisted passages for the Forest Temple in OoT. In concpet anyway; similar surroundings, but turned its head.
That's just a combination of the spinning camera angle and the strange but natural formation of the tunnel.
I think Termina is definitely real as a dimension separated from Hyrule and the rest of that world. A key point being that mysterious things happen in the Lost Woods that already can't be explained: Children and adults lost become Skull Kids and Stalfos (so how are stalchilds made?); the creepy guy that needs the medicine (during the biggoron sword quest line) disappears and is never heard from again; Link is always returned to the entrence if he gets lost; it contains multiple portals to take you to either Goron City, Zora's Domain, or Lake Hylia; and even the Kokiri fear the woods and don't know everything about it.
As Link arrives in Termina by way of a portal in the Lost Woods, it makes sense as we're already many portals in the previous game. Epona didn't necessarily fall down the hole like Link. Skull Kid (under the influence of Majora) likely just teleported the horse to a destination of his choosing (remember Majora doesn't COMEPLETELY take over until the end. Until then Skull Kid is behaving in an extreme version of its normal prankster personality (although some of those pranks had fatal casualties). So he only really takes Epona for his own pettiness and to toy with Link and watch him suffer a little.
Now as far as further theories I have...
We all know Link went to the Lost Woods to search for Navi and that's how he ended up in his Terminal predicament. But the irony is that searching for Navi (I'm sure as a reference to the term navigator) got him lost. Then once he meets Skull Kid, he encounters the faeries Tatl and Tael; a reference to the term: tattletale. Why is someone usually called a tattle tale? Because they did something wrong and they don't want others to know or punish them. That's essentially what Tatl does as she accompanies Link on his adventure to help free Skull Kid from Majora's Mask and stop him from doing more wrongs. In a way these faeries are Termina calling out for Link's help. It wouldn't be the first time the place itself guided Link to a destination to save itself (Link's Awakening anyone? Oracle of Ages/Seasons?)
Also my theory is that Termina likely used to be a part of the geography of the world Hyrule inhabits but was sealed away for a mysterious reason (likely Majora) with the only pathway to cross its barrier being held within the Lost Woods, a place where MOST people are unlikely to discover IT (HAPPY MASK SALESMAN knows everything).
If you haven’t already, look at the wall art in the crumbled Temple of Time in Twilight Princess. It looks like a women holding a dominion rod and another women holding a child (Young Link before taken to the Kokiri Forest???)
Why did notifications fail by minutes
If the events of MM are really in Link's head, the abductions at Romani Ranch imply Link believes in aliens. I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.
This is Simple: In Twilight Princess Link ( Hero of Time) teaches younger Link ( His descendant) the Song of Healing. The Song of Healing being something he only learned in Termina. Plus the Song of Healing also works in Twilight Princess.
You should keep termina in the theories because even in the future if they ever say it is real or not it gives your videos objectively better rewatch value.
Not only is it real, but Majora’s Mask is criminally underrated and deserves to be discussed more!
I believe in a slightly different version of the 5 stages of grief theory, I think link was on his deathbed from some sudden injury and in his last moments he created a world inside his head with himself from his first adventure using people he met from childhood to his final days, and the ending is him completing his adventure and finally willing to let go of his mortal life and become a ghost because he could never pass on his teachings and that is the last thing keeping him from a true afterlife and when he finished teaching his descendent his swordsmanship skills and he can finally pass on from his purgatory
I'm definitely in the camp that Termina exists as a parallel universe and is not Link's death or dream. I'm curious to see what the community ends up voting!
I thought MM was just Link's concussion dream lol. Some type of Alice in Wonderland scenerio. The game starts in Link's dream, reliving what lead up to him passing out and then going into his own little world. It was a representation of how he feels like his job as a hero is neverending. Zelda wasn't in the game, because he holds slight resentment towards her, needing a break from saving her, but just always feels like if not her, it is something, thus why you have a journal full of his side quest and you can never truly do them all in a day; they are there to haunt him and remind him that his work is never done. He finds splice with Epona, thus why she was in his dream. Him rewatching what led him to faint triggered his loophole situation.
My theory is that Termina is Lorule in the Child Timeline. Mainly because both have alternate versions of characters from Hyrule. Secondly, when Link falls down into Termina, we see trippy images which can be compared to ALBW with the cracks in the walls. Lastly, the cameo of Majoras Mask in Ravio's hut. That could be just an easter egg or Ravio's predecessor could have saved Termina / Lorule in the downfall timeline as Link was not there to do it. He claimed the mask and this explains entries in his journal as well.
Just because I want to clear this up: Ganon made Lorule. A Link Between Worlds is the sequel to A Link To The Past, and in the explanation of ALttP’s plot it mentions that once Ganon got the triforce, he used it to turn the Sacred Realm into the Dark World. The Dark World being a distorted mirror of Hyrule, landmarks and features all in the same place. Just like Lorule.
Skull kid's horn in TP are Deku pipes and the puppets are animated statues created from the elegy of emptiness, two things that can only exist if the events of MM happened, and because he guards the Master Sword for seemingly centuries, he would have to have some great debt or respect to the hero of time, such as being freed from a demonic mask.
and in every other game we stumble into another world (TP, ALttP, ALBW, SW, HW(albeit non-cannon))
I think Termina is pretty real, but theres a possibility that maybe it's meant to also be a dream world. It's fueled by the imaginations of both Link AND the Skull Kid, thus creating conflict in what would normally be an idyllic dream world
Link draws him defeating ganon and skull kid makes a masterpiece compared plus it could have been made by Cia if that was canon
Hey Masked, love the theories, and your channel single-handedly got me back into Zelda! (Just beat the Main Story of BoTW!)
But, I comment today to disprove the Dream Theory, if you care to give my comment a read. While I think it's mostly solid and indisputable, there actually is one big flaw with it - the Mayor. At 8:35 you mentioned how the Mayor was a completely new character amongst a sea of recurring characters. However, psychologically speaking, it's physically impossible for the brain to make something completely new up! :D
That's why dreams are made entirely of recurring things such as people you know, familiar places, etc - it's because you can't dream of anything else. So, the Mayor being a new character means that Link quite literally can't be dreaming, else the Mayor would have to be someone he already knew.
I really really hope you give this a read! Love your content! :)
Also, continuing on with that previous thought of Dreams being impossible to create new things - that also is supported by The Great Bay, Woodfall Temple, Snowhead Temple, etc.
There isn't anything quite like them in Hyrule, so it's impossible for Link to have dreamed about it (^3^)
In theory:
Skull kid
Wanted to
Be friends
With the moon
So bringing down the moon
Alive
So he can play but
It is a doomsday moon
I think you make good points on both sides, but a couple of the points you made for termina not being real I had a couple questions about if you see this :)
1. The portal between worlds being weird. Very much so, but I think the portals to lorule are equally quirky and trippy, so I'm not sure that proves anything for either side.
2 When you say the in the end cutscene that link could still be asleep and it explains why the woods seem to be endless. I think with it being the lost woods, especially on modern designs being more open and seemingly endless, it might just be a better interpretation of the woods from the sequel maybe?
3. In regards to the skull kid having been alive for so long, bearing in mind the crazy time distortions you can perform in termina, goodness knows what you could be capable of if you know how to play around with it. Weakest of my points I think but yknow, if he really has existed this long in this world then maybe he has more power or longevity that we expected haha.
Anyhow, great video, I think im slightly leaning towards termina being real, but only by a smidge, would love to hear your opinion!
"The events of Majora's Mask have no affect on any of the later Zelda games"
The Skull Kid from TP is the same one from Majora and Oot. Heros' shade is the same Hero of time who learned the song of healing in Termina, The giant statue of Darmani in botw, And Majora's mask it'self being in a Link between worlds. The fused shadow may or may not have been majora's mask (That ones still just a theory.) List can go on.
Despite the Official Zelda Encyclopedia saying that Termina is just an illusion that disappears after Link leaves, or some weird thing like that, I'm of the opinion that Termina does, in fact, exist, since official sources before used to refer to Termina as existing in a parallel world; and Link's time in Termina seems to have still had an impact on Hyrule, itself. Other characters, such as the Skull Kid, Tatl and Tael, and even Epona were in Termina before Link even arrived there, and the Skull Kid, along with Tatl and Tael were even in Termina BEFORE the Skull Kid stole Majora's Mask from the Happy Mask Salesman (who may've been in Termina before Link, too). And, let's not forget the fact that Link was not only able to take items out of Termina, but also remembered important songs from Termina, too. Also, if Termina was all in Link's mind, then why are the Terminian counterparts of Twinrova benevolent witches who brew and sell healing potions to people in the Southern Swamp (and give guided tours that keep the tourists safe), while the Terminian counterpart of Sakon is a dirty thief who preys on people who look vulnerable, such as Kafei in the body of a child and the old lady from the Bomb Shop?
I think a lot of people forget that the stal branch of monsters are catorgised as undead/living dead monsters meaning stalchildren don't age so Stalkid could easily be thousands of years old and could easily have met the four giants a long ass time ago.
Termina as a fabrication makes the most sense, honestly. It means Termina is both real and a dream.
According to the manga, the mask grants wishes. According to the game, it's also sapient and malevolent. So, to do its evil, it has to work off the desires of its wearer, at least at first.
When Skull Kid stole the mask, both it and he needed an escape route, so it created a portal to a reality based on Skull Kid's thoughts/feelings/memories. Tattl and Tael follow and the Happy Mask Salesman gives chase. Then Link falls in and Epona follows him.
The Giants aren't *actually* Skull Kid's friends. They're representations of his friends created from memory and emotion. Like in a dream.
At the end, Majora's Mask loses its power and soon Termina ceases to exist, dumping all the "real" people back in the Lost Woods. Because Termina physically existed, all the items in it did too, so Link was able to keep them. (Because the power of Majora's Mask was only needed to keep a pocket reality from collapsing, not to keep objects it created in existence.)
My only issue with it all being in Link's dream is that actually narratively doesn't make sense. World/Story/History wise, the only thing that would point to being all in Link's head is the people.
Everything else, seems to point to something other than Link being responsible.
- The Moon falling
- Majora itself
- The 4 giants and the 4 locations
- The masks having power
- Enemies and bosses not seen in Ocarina of time
- The Ocarina of time and its specific abilities of time travel, when the only way it did that in OoT was the time blocks.
I just do not understand how Link could've crafted this entire adventure on the sole reasoning that he bonked his head and fell asleep. At most Link gave some information to creating Termina but could not be the sole contributor.
Which is weird because it feels like the only reason to dismiss the supposed Zelda books is because Termina couldn't have been created by Majora's mask, which I feel like is a weird perspective to have, when it absolutely would make more sense that the Majora's Mask as well as Link's partial influence would make a hell of a lot more sense than solely originating from Link's mind.
For all of you out there on the fence for Raycons, I bought some recently, and while they’re pretty good for the price! They’ve been really unimpressive. I even got the more expensive pair, the black E55’s. The pain chips on these things like no other, you might as well just get white. I’ve dropped it once btw. My nails just catch the paint sometimes. Also, you’ll probably find yourself cleaning the film off of the pads often. If you don’t, it will cut off almost all sound. I do like my Raycons, but I felt sorta tricked about the little things. Not as high quality as everyone says. The sound is nice! But the E55’s make my ears sore after a couple of hours. It’s a very tight fit with the hooks. However, I do love the noise cancellation. I also got it for $85 so it’s pretty cheap. I’m not saying don’t buy them, I’m just sharing my testimony to those who were thinking about trying them, like me. Have a great day guys!
I’m going with Real Enough-Koholint existed despite being a whale kami’s dream construct so long as said kami stayed asleep. Also, the lost woods are WEIRD and literally have shroomz as a sidequest item-aka prolly the REAL reason why people get lost and eventually transformed (regardless of the Deku Tree’s “protection” or not)
So...Link faints from breathing in too many spores and shares a lucid dream with the Skullkid? (And it’s not uncommon for dreams to have yet another dream inside them.)
Which, the Woods also function as a sort of early Fast Travel in OoT but...I’m just gonna go with Very Powerful Trip having Link randomly wander to where he needed to go by chance or something
He said proving it doesn't exist is easier but then only made speculative points. Like he "probably hit his head" and "he's probably still just dreaming at the end". It can't be proven wrong but it can't be proven right either. This is some new game theory levels of evidence
My take on it is that it IS a "made up world" created by Majora's Mask (much like the Wind Fish's Koholint only more sinister), but that it's affected by whoever enters it. It's clearly heavily influenced by Link's memories, but also by the Skull Kids' (I can't say much about Epona, Tatl and Tael or the mask salesman though). The Skull Kid, Tatl and Tael spent some time in Termina before acquiring Majora's Mask, but it's not implied to have been very long. Perhaps they were baited there by Majora, presumably carried by the mask salesman traveling nearby.
I think the Skull Kid being abandoned by his friends is something that happened in Hyrule, but the trauma manifests itself in the form of the four giants and the mythos of Termina (intermingling somewhat with the backstory/memories of Majora himself). On some level I think the Skull Kid is aware that the four giants aren't literally his friends in the flesh but more symbolic, but they're real enough to him.
So what would the ramifications of the moon falling on Termina be, then? Perhaps it would destroy the dream world and set Majora free from his mask (once again sort of like Koholint but more sinister), free to roam Hyrule as presumably in the ancient past? Perhaps hosts and visitors such as Skull Kid and Link were required for Majora's power to take form enough to free itself? That's my take, anyway. I like it far better than Termina being either real or a dream... =') And if Termina existed physically for a little while, it's possible for Link to carry items made in the world out of it again, right? Or maybe Termina disappeared shortly after and the items with it, but this event taking place after the credits.
I like the "Terminal is Real" idea better. And for your information, I DEFINITELY count that Majora's mask in breath of the wild! XD the mask salesman said the evil power was gone at the end of the game, who says it can't still be kicking around!
Termina is a real place in the Zelda multiverse. Tatl tells you that she and her brother meet the Skull Kid in Termina.
It’s also theorized that the Skull Kid in Twilight Princess is the same Skull Kid from Majora’s Mask. If true that means that Skull Kids are capable of living for a long time so the Skull Kid being from ancient times isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
The flower by the tree stump where the skull kid drew link and himself could be the silent princess flower only back in the past before thought to die out
I feel like just like in Termina, he would of liked that everyone recognized him as the hero and actually remembered what he did for Hyrule 🤔