Do Latter Day Saints and Christians Worship the Same God?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- How Christian is Mormonism at its core? And should "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" be considered an orthodox denomination of the Christian faith? Frank highlights some doctrines in this video that put Mormonism and Christianity at odds.
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@@CrossExamined once again a preacher trying to sell books to make money in the name of Jesus!
Brothers and sisters.
Please pray for me. For about 15 years I have been struggling with debilitating sickness that's made my life unberable. I am in my mid 30 and would love to still have streingth to serve my Savior and Lord.
Jesus is my Healer. Thank you all 🙏🏻
Please also pray that God grants me strength to go through this valley with humility and thankfulness.
Please also pray that the fire of Holy Spirit would be with me.
We must be *BORN AGAIN* - first physical birth then spiritual birth to enter into the Kingdom of God. John 3:7 & John 3:36.
Amen!
@@boris8787 that doesn't even make sense.
The concept of being Born Again is absolutely not taught in the Law of Moses nor in any of the Prophets. Tjhe prophets taught that if you did not obey the Ten commandments from birth to death you were evil and you were going to hell. It literally tells you that in Isaiah and Ezekiel. Moreover, Ezekiel directly rebuked the doctrine of Original Sin and said tht absolutely was not true. Your fake pastors claim to be speaking for God and teach complete balsphemy and nonsense.
*_Deu 31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed._* *_- KJB_*
*_2Ti _**_3:16_**_ All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:_* *_- KJB_*
This is a very important topic where I live in Utah! I was lds my entire life of 42 years when I left. I am now a Born Again Christian for the past 17 years now, and have many family still in it, but many family and friends have left the church for Biblical reasons. Wow the truth that comes out once you open your eyes and actually LEARN about the doctrine and it goes against everything Biblical. Pastors keep teaching the truth. I am in Southern Utah surrounded by great people, they are just lost like I once was. Jesus is ENOUGH!!!!
He is, but the best way to have a lasting covenant relationship with him is in the ordinances and principles of his gospel, as taught by living prophets, notndead ones.
@@jessekoeven3757 the first problem is you believe their prophets.
@SheepAmongG.O.A.T I do, but "their" is possessive, not the conjunctive, that one is "they're"
@@jessekoeven3757 I know the difference between the 'theirs'. Sometimes I slip. That wasn't a self reassurance thing was it? ;)
@SheepAmongG.O.A.T not at all. You did not address why I believe or why I should not believe that the same God who spoke to Moses on Sinai would not love the people of earth enough to call living oracles today to give us his living will and word to address the chaos of the world.
My sister made the funniest comment of Mormons not being Christians I've ever heard (and with a serious tone, wich made it funnier)
"The book of Mormon is so weird. It is a poorly written fan fiction of the bible made by ppl who don't like the bible. Kinda like star wars under current lucasfilm." 😂😂😂
Love my sis
And about as accurate as Kathleen Kennedy's take on Star Wars. It's obvious she hasn't read it if she calls it fan fiction. As such, she bears a false witness.
@@Charistoph What's wrong with her take?
@@Charistoph How is it wrong. Merely comparing it to something doesn't make it the same. And one can disagree with Kathleen Kennedy's take on Star Wars, but you can't say it's wrong. Both are fiction. Meanwhile, the Bible is not fiction like the original version of Star Wars is.
Sounding very prideful there with your mockery and ridiculing of others.
@@Thyalwaysseek _Sounding very prideful there with your mockery and ridiculing of others._
As if that wasn't prideful. What if it's justified? And it's not prideful for Joseph Smith to say Christianity is wrong and he has the corrected version?
If you change Jesus you change everything and He is absolutely changed in mormonism🌻 just another "ism"
Short answer: Nah
Long answer: hell nah
@@Jackthat1 it is bit longer I guess.... 😅😅
You are correct. 'Mormons' follow scripture. 'Christians' follow the 'church fathers' and creeds
@@TheRastacabbage Morms follow JS who is a proven fraud and abuser.
@@TheRastacabbage ? Creed itself has a Biblical tradition. It was necessary to have to defend against heretics at that time; therefore, the creed was necessary. The fact that rejecting the creed is both denying scriptural doctrine. Those extra texts that Mormons added are not scripture, and polygamy is wrong.
I was once in the LDS faith, from the early 1980's ~ 2000's, and I can tell you from personal experience, after falling away from that faith first, and then later in life actually spending time reading and studying the Bible, and finding true Christian pastors to listen to, my eyes were opened and discernment given by God. It was a night and day difference! Sadly, the LDS faith has had a lot of time over the years to string together very carefully and cunning word play on Bible passages and even circular reasoning in their own conferences where they try to redirect the attention of the serious issues of their core doctrine.
The key to the LDS faith starts with their belief that: The Bible was corrupted and precious truths lost, and that God is nothing more than an "Exalted" man and Jesus was created through some form of celestial sex, between a heavenly father and mother, and Lucifer was also created the same way, making Jesus and Lucifer "brothers".
It breaks my heart to understand the real truth of God's inerrant word, (Bible), which was never corrupted, no precious truths lost, and I have learned that no matter how much proof you give someone in the LDS faith, no matter what facts, evidence, etc, you provide, they will not believe it. Why? Because many in the LDS faith proclaim to have had many different spiritual experiences and contribute that to their LDS faith, when the Bible tells us that God helps all people and we have what is known as "common grace" as God gives us all many chances to repent and come to the one true Jesus of the Bible.
Gordon B. Hinckley (one of the past prophets of the LDS faith) even openly declared that He and the LDS church does not believe in the "traditional Jesus" that Christians believe in, but then goes on to proclaim the "Jesus" they believe in is the one that was revealed to Joseph Smith Jr in the woods when they use the 1 "first vision" account (out of half a dozen first vision accounts) in which they proclaim he saw a heavenly father and Jesus, both as flesh and bone.
The LDS faith has attempted to distort God's word by placing their own creative overlay and personal interpretations of select Bible passages, in order to make it fit their theology. Pray for them, for many are ending up in hell because of this, and yes, even good people who believe in any other gospel then the one already once for all delivered to us by Jesus and his apostles will send many to hell.
Jesus himself warned us, to strive for the straight and narrow gate, for many will try but only few will make it.
I lived in Utah for many years. I hope that many Mormons come to salvation. I had to learn the differences why I was a Christian, and my faith was different than Mormons.
Romans 3 KJV 🩸
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
1 Corinthians 15 KJV ✝️🩸
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Galatians 1 KJV
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Maybe the Book of Mormon is God's Word. And you're so badly deceived that you just can't see it.
How would you know?
@@mattr.1887 ♥️KJV is the 7th bible translated into English. Christians have the perfect word of God.
Psalms 12 KJV
6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
1 John 5 KJV
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
@@AlexanderBrown77Muslims get mad at the Gal 1:8-9 verses too. I tell them the earliest manuscript we have is papyrus 46 from 200 AD and it predates the Quran by 400 years and they still don’t listen to reason.
@@mattr.1887 I always think it's funny when mormons say this, because if you believe every word of the Bible, you shouldn't be deceived, but if you don't believe every word, you can easily be deceived. Like if your mom wrote a book about herself and some people know that every word is truth about her, but others change things and say "it's only correct as far as it's translated correctly", then they have very good chance of being deceived. What you are saying isn't the logical way to look at it.
Christian means worshipping and following Jesus Christ. It does not necessarily entail subscribing to prevailing theological tenets.
What Frank should have said is that those doctrines make them an outlier. There is no shortage of doctrinal discord between the more prominent Christian denominations, anyway.
I love how you called denominations created only a couple hundred years ago “traditional”. Very ironic
ikr! Not historical context here.
Traditional in the sense that they have the same core beliefs as the church did 1700 years ago. You can take the Nicaean creed into any Baptist or Presbyterian church and they'll agree to almost all of it. Or at least they would have 50 years ago. The Mormons would disagree on more than half of it.
@@SimonASNG they might say they believe it, but if you ask what it means you get more questions than answers. I've learned that from personal experience.
Do Mormons believe that one day you will be a god of your own planet?
No, this is a characterization of some of our beliefs that are often misunderstood. Like a meme, it hits on some unique beliefs that we have, but is not correct.
We believe that the human race is the offspring of God, as Paul taught to the Romans in Romans 8:16-17 (KJV):
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
We believe that God is our father, and just like in our earthly families, our father will always be our father. But the hope of a father is that his sons will grow up to be like their father, and to help as partners "with the family business," not just to be a servant or pet indefinitely.
So do we believe we will be a God our own planet? No, but we do believe that we will jointly become heirs to God's kingdom and with Him take part in his glorious purpose, which is to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man," or in other words, to bring the maximum amount of joy to all of his family. We don't know details about what kind of assignments we'll have in the eternities to help God in his work, but our belief about heaven is much more than just being angels singing praise to God and basking in his eternal glory. We believe there will be lots of work - glorious, purposeful, joyful work - extending the creation of the universe populated with the family of God, and helping all of our family grow up in stature to also take their place in that same work.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Thank you CE
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As an ex-mormon and a born again believer, I can testify that if you believe in the Bible, you canNOT believe in the Book of Mormon and vice versa. NO way possible. Fundamentally through and through two completely different gospels. Opposite sides of the battle.
Well. It's easy being saved by grace. But how Christ-like are you?
As a former Mormon myself I second this.
@@kaptnneemo6248 What does that have to do with the comment??? What a very mormon thing to do... go OFF the subject, then ask a question that isn't something a christian would say (AND use typical mormon lingo). When mormons say "christ-like", it proves they don't know how the gospel works. Back into the works of the mormon grind, and appearance of looking like Christ while spitting on His nature, gospel and children.
So if you're a former ex-mormon are you Mormon again LOL
@@glennjohn3919 Praise God the truth sets us free.
Jesus exalts us when we trust and believe only in Him for salvation, becoming born again.
John 3:3
"Jesus exalts us"
Well, he might; but what is exaltation?
Whenever talking to a Mormon, you must ALWAYS define the terms. Because what the Christian church has believed since Jesus rose from the dead about exaltation is NOT the same thing as how the Mormons use that term.
@@GhostRyder2008 "you must ALWAYS define the terms"
That spoils the fun! Hardly anyone defines "God" making it impossible to prove but also impossible to disprove.
@@thomasmaughan4798 We do it all the time. I've heard it and done it many times. I was getting at defining terms that describe God as well as theological terms like exaltation, salvation, glorification, and so on. Mormons and Christians use many of the same terms, but Mormons attribute different meanings to those terms and we end up talking past each other like the Abbott and Costello skit "Who's on First"
Seems tyrannical
Ex-Mormon here. Agreed that Mormonism is polytheistic. So many teachings of the faith lead away from what is taught in the Bible.
Like when Stephen looked up as he was being stoned and saw the Father and the Son as separate beings? And when Jesus prayed to the Father? And Christ physically resurrected and Paul promised that we would all do the same? Disagree if you must, but Latter-day Saints do not lead people away from what is taught in the Bible. They clarify it.
@@phav1832 The Book of Mormon IS NOT the Bible.
@@phav1832 All of what you just described was well explained in the Trinitarian view also, clearly and simply, well before Mormonism came along. So it clarifies nothing, but twists scripture to support unbiblical teachings.
Joseph smith was a treasure hunter, seems like he just found another way to get that booty.
@@MattTheBandGuy Christianity is polytheistic. Trinitarian is a later cope to merge Christianity with Jewish monotheism.
OUTSTANDING 3 minute video
THANK YOU Frank.
Will check out "Conversations with the faiths"
God Bless y'all!
Nope. Paul said if he or anyone preached a different Gospel, let them be damned. Mormonism twists the Gospel into something that denies its fundamental principles.
The Mormon faith cannot save.
Exactly. And to add to that, Paul said even if an angel from heaven preaches a different gospel than what Jesus has given, let them be damned. Mormonism came to Joseph Smith from an angel. Just like Islam came to Muhammed. What angel? Would almost certainly be Satan. He's not an ugly, pitchfork-carrying dude in a red suit...He's the most beautiful angel of all, and the father of lies.
We've had the different gospel since 200 AD - You think the Galatians couldn't keep it straight with Paul in their midst but YOUR pastor can? uhm kay.
Is there a greater arrogance than expressing you have some sort of relationship with a deity?
Question: How can you possibly take faith seriously? How can anyone in their right mind ask others to believe in the existence of a Deity who makes Mormons so Christians will know how Jews feel, having had their literature hijacked. Nothing fails like prayers in a children's hospital & indoctrinating children is criminal. The faith vocabulary causes the user to be avoided like the old woman with too many cats. Faith "comes not with peace, but sword." Faith comes with wolves dressed as sheep & preaching to the choir. Faith trades the last cow for a pocketful of magic beans & then expects everyone's appreciation. Jesus said, it is a wicked generations which seeks signs such as resurrection. Faith is as worthless as fantasyland magic, since you can't tell mountains to move. The "only sign given" in reality "is Jonah": A believer murdered by other believers because he is outnumbered. The context is Jesus seeing a gathering crowd.
@@Stupidityindex apparently there is a greater arrogance. Good question and better answer.
What is the gospel that Paul preached, and how do Mormons teach otherwise? Please provide proper references.
He doesn't understand that Mormons belief it is by grace we are saved. The Book of Mormon is clear on that issue. But the myths that we believe we are saved by our works is false. What we do say is that a true believer will obey His commandments because he our she has been born again. Christ says in the gospel of John that greater love is there than when a man lays down His life for His friends. He then says that if you are his friend, then you should keep His commandments. Obedience follows this who truly believe that Jesus is the Christ. Else why does Jesus teach us to keep His commandments. We strive to do our best to keep His commandments, but we often fail to so. So, we must continue to repent daily. Sine have said that a saint is a sinner that keeps repenting and trying to become better each day. Christ's mercy justifies the truly penitent who strive to be committed disciples of Christ.
John 17 is a great place to learn about Jesus Christ and His Father and how Christ prays for His disciples to also become one with Jesus Christ and the father.
Finally, we have no scripture that says we're going to get planet of we're good boys and girls. We believe in what Paul says in Romans 8:16-17. Eternal life and exaltation are given to those who qualify, as stated therein by Paul. We become joint heirs with Christ.
I believe if he truly knew what we believed, he might have a different opinion than he currently has.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
This is an area where Christians and Mormons talk past each other. True that Mormons don’t believe you have to do works to be initially saved and go to the heavenly kingdoms, but they do believe you need to do certain practices to get into the Celestial Kingdom. Christians don’t believe in the Celestial Kingdom and believe that salvation is being with God in eternity. If I understand correctly, those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms are not in the presence of God, so in essence, Christians are still correct since it takes works to get to the Kingdom that would be in God’s presence.
@TheHcjfctc Will all men go to heaven? I don't believe other Christian denominations all men will live with God except those who believe in Christ and accept Him as their Savior. It is m man's choice to decide to have faith in Christ. If they don't, then they choose to cut themselves off from the presence of God. Damnation is existing without God's presence which is described as an never ending fire (hell). Such is the case of those who choose to reject Christ as their Redeemer.
Here's the crazy thing about people saying that the word of God is corrupt God Is Bigger Than The Universe he spoke everything into existence he lives outside of time he has no beginning or no end he is all-powerful yet to some people he doesn't have enough power to keep his word pure that's just plain ridiculous
Well God did willingly choose to limit his power and control over us...people manipulate his words all the time...
But yes,if Christianity was indeed as "lost" as Joseph Smith claimed...God wouldn't have waited 1500 years just to pick a well known liar and braggart to speak on his behalf.
Or god only exists in the minds of his followers so can only do what they are able to do (The logical answer)
@@truthgiver8286 when you die you tell him that face to face see how far that gets you
@@timothy4131 Is your mind going to be there because that's where he lives.
@@truthgiver8286 I'll be there before him all right every person will be there before him you can deny his existence all day long you can lie yourself all day long you can make yourself feel good in your lies but at the end you still will be before God and there will be no excuse you have to pay for all the evil that you've done it will be a hard price to pay and the sad thing is it doesn't have to be like this Jesus loves you at the end of your life you can either face him as your judge or your savior it's up to you God bless you
"Traditional" does not mean that it's correct.
what would that mean then, because for about 2000 years Christianity has been trinitarian. coucil of nicaea destroyed arius and his followers and their claims that Jesus wasnt God. He was God, and plain in text all over the Bible.
@@AndonisG2G "Tradition" only means something has been widely accepted and assumed as a truism. It does NOT inherently make it true. The Orthodox Jews in Christ's day practiced certain traditions for centuries, but Christ exposed them as false doctrines that contradicted the law of God. The trinity has _never_ been a foundation of true Christianity because it is a staple of all the religions that came from Babylon.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 so was Christ lying when He said that He would preserve His Church? That would mean everyone would agree on a certain rule set/ belief on the Bible. Just because they all agreed does that make them instantly wrong? no. you are look at it from a 21st century perspective.
heres the scripture proving Jesus was God.
C. Jesus has many other names or titles of God
1. Titles belonging only to God
a. The First and the Last (Beginning and End, Alpha and Omega): Rev. 1:7-8, 17b-18; 2:8; 22:13; cf. Is. 41:4; 44:6; 48:12; Rev. 21:6
b. King of kings and Lord of lords: Rev. 17:14; 19:16; cf. Dan. 4:37; 1 Tim. 6:15
2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God
a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Phil. 3:20; 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18; 1 John 4:14; cf. Is. 43:11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Ps. 118:14, 21
b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Ps. 23:1; Is. 40:11
c. Bridegroom/Husband: Matt. 22:2; 25:1-13; Mark 2:19; John 3:29; 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:25-27; Rev. 19:7-9; 21:2, 9; cf. Is. 54:5; 62:5; Jer. 31:32
d. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Is. 44:8
3. Jesus’ self-declarations-his “I am” sayings
a. Jesus’ “I am” (egô eimi) sayings with a predicate declare his divine functions: “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35, 48; cf. 6:41, 51), “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12), “I am the gate” of the sheep (John 10:7, 9), “I am the good shepherd” (10:11, 14), “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25), “I am the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6), “I am the [true] vine” (John 15:1, 5). In these sayings Jesus essentially claims to be everything his people need for eternal life.
b. Jesus’ “I am” (egô eimi) sayings without a predicate declare his divine identity as the divine Son come to be the Messiah: “I am [he]; do not fear” (Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20; cf. Is. 43:2, 5); “I am [he]” (Mark 14:62); “I am [he], the one speaking to you” (John 4:26, cf. Is. 52:6); “unless you believe that I am [he] you will die in your sins…then you will know that I am [he]” (John 8:24, 28, cf. Is. 43:10-11); “before Abraham came into being, I am” or “I am [he]” (John 8:58, note v. 59); “I know the ones I have chosen…you will believe that I am [he]” (John 13:18-19, cf. Is. 43:10); “I am [he]” (John 18:5, cf. vv. 6-8). Note the many parallels to the “I am” sayings of God in Isaiah, which virtually all biblical scholars agree are echoed by Jesus’ “I am” sayings in John. Some scholars also see at least an indirect connection to God’s declaration “I am who I am” in Ex. 3:14 (especially for John 8:58).
4. The NT gives an extraordinary emphasis on Jesus’ “name,” stating that it is the highest of all names, Eph. 1:21; Phil. 2:9-11; referring to it as “the Name,” Acts 5:41; 3 John 7; glorifying his name, Acts 19:13-18, cf. Ps. 20:7. Christians call on his name for salvation; they get baptized and receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life in his name; they cast out demons in his name; they suffer and risk their lives for his name; they do everything in his name: Matt. 7:22; 10:22; 19:29; 24:9; Mark 9:38-39; 13:13; Luke 10:17; 21:12, 17; John 1:12; 15:21; 20:31; Acts 2:21, 36, 38; 3:6, 16; 4:7, 10, 12, 17-18; 30; 5:28; 8:16; 9:14, 21, 27-28; 10:43, 48; 15:26; 16:18; 19: 5; 21:13; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:13-15; 6:11; Col. 3:17; 1 Pet. 4:14; 1 John 2:12; 1 John 3:23; 5:13; Rev. 2:3, 13; 3:8.
D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone
1. Honor: John 5:23; Heb. 3:3-4
2. Love: Matt. 10:37; Luke 14:26; John 14:15, 21; 15:10; Eph. 6:24
3. Prayer: John 14:14 (the word “me” in the text is debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); 9:14; 22:16; Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 16:22; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where “the Lord” must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; Rev. 22:20-21
4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 2:2, 11; 8:2; 9:18; 14:33; 15:25; 20:20; 28:9, 17 (cf. Matt. 4:9-10); Phil. 2:10-11 (cf. Is. 45:23); Heb. 1:6 (cf. Ps. 97:7); Rev. 1:17; 5:14 (cf. Rev. 19:10; 22:8-9)
5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Dan. 7:14; Rev. 22:1-3
6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; Heb. 13:20-21; 1 Pet. 4:11; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13
7. Song: Eph. 5:19; Rev. 5:9-10; cf. Ps. 92:1; 95:1; 96:2; etc.
8. Fear/reverence: 2 Cor. 5:10-11; Eph. 5:21; 6:7-8; Col. 3:22-25; 1 Pet. 3:14-16; cf. Deut. 6:13; 10:20; Prov. 1:7; 2:5; 9:10; etc.; Is. 8:12-13
9. Faith: Matt. 9:28; John 1:12; 3:15-18, 36; 6:35, 40; 7:37-39; 8:24; 11:25-26; 14:1; 20:31; Acts 3:16; 10:43; 16:31; 20:21; 22:19; 24:24; 26:18; Rom. 9:33; 10:11; Gal. 3:26; 1 Pet. 2:6; 1 John 3:23; 5:1, 10, 13
E. Jesus does the works of God
1. Creation: John 1:3, 10; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2, 10; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler or head); on “through” and “in” Christ, cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Is. 44:24
2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12
3. Demonstrating divine sovereignty over nature: Matt. 8:23-27 par.; Matt. 14:13-33 par.; Matt. 15:32-39; Matt. 17:24-27; Mark 5:19-20; Luke 5:1-11; 7:11-16; John 2:1-11; John 21:1-14
4. Speaking with divine authority: Matt. 5:20-22, etc.; 7:24-29; 24:35; Mark 1:22; 13:31; Luke 4:32; John 4:26; 7:46; cf. “Amen I say to you” (74 times in the Gospels); “the word of the Lord,” Acts 8:25; 13:44, 48-49; 15:35-36; 16:32; 19:10, 20; 1 Thess. 4:15
5. Salvation:
a. In general: See C.2.a. above
b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against him.
c. Sends the Spirit and his gifts: Matt. 3:11; Luke 24:49; John 1:33; 4:10, 15; 7:37-39; 15:26; 16:7-14; 20:22; Acts 2:33; Rom. 8:9; 1 Cor. 12:5; Eph. 4:8-11
d. All spiritual blessings (with the Father): Eph. 1:2-3; 2 Thess. 2:16-17; 1 Tim. 1:2; 2 Tim. 1:2; 2 John 3; Rev. 1:4; etc.
6. Raising the dead: John 2:19-22; 5:28-29; 6:40, 54; 10:17-18, 27-28 (cf. Deut. 32:39); 11:25-26; Acts 2:24
7. Judgment: Matt. 25:31-46; John 5:22-23; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom. 2:16; 1 Cor. 4:4-5; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Thess. 1:7-8; 2 Tim. 4:1; Rev. 2:23
8. All of them: John 5:19
F. Jesus has all the attributes of God
1. All of them: John 1:1; 12:45; 14:7-10; Rom. 8:29; 2 Cor. 4:4; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:13, 15, 19; 2:9; Heb. 1:3
2. Self-existent: John 5:26
3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8
4. Eternal: John 1:1-3; 8:56-59; 17:5; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2, 10-12; 7:3
5. Omnipresent: Matt. 8:5-13; 18:20; 28:20; Mark 7:24-30; Luke 7:1-10; John 1:47-49; 3:13; 4:46-54; Eph. 1:23; 4:10-11; Col. 3:11
6. Omniscient: Matt. 9:4; 11:21-23; 12:25; Mark 2:6-8; 8:31-32 (etc.); Luke 6:8; 10:13-15; 21:20-24; John 2:23-24; 4:16-18; 11:11-15; 13:10-11, 21-29, 36-38 par.; 16:30-31; 21:17; Acts 1:24; 1 Cor. 4:5; Rev. 2:23; cf. Mark 13:30-32
7. Omnipotent: Matt. 28:18; John 2:19-22; 10:17-18; 1 Cor. 1:23-24; 2 Cor. 12:9; Eph. 1:19-21; Col. 2:10; 1 Pet. 3:22
8. Loving (in a preeminent, unlimited way): John 13:34; 15:9, 12-13; Rom. 8:35-39; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 3:19; 5:2; Rev. 1:4; cf. Rom. 5:8
9. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27
@@AndonisG2G Actually, Arianism became law after Nicea. Arian lost the official vote but Arianism gained popularity and became the official stance of the church and then the law under the next king. Then, eventually, Trinitarianism took over. Trinitarianism wasn't well established until 500ish AD. Or maybe a little before that. In any case, a vote under threat of exile and excommunication isn't the best way to determine the truth.
@@loudogg73 imagine trying to argue Trinitarianism is a late idea, when morms didn't start until over 1000 years after he claims Trinitarianism was established 💀
Obviously not. How can they be one and the same when one is clearly not a Trinity?
Because they believe in Jesus and the same God as more mainstream Christians.
The big difference is that they think Joseph Smith was a modern day prophet.
That is the problem with denominations, not following Jesus
Should they be following Jesus or Yahweh?
@@colinpierre3441 Jesus is the Eternal. And yes, Paul teaches that a Christian ought to follow Christ since He is the Head of His Church. God's government demands it. The Father leads through Christ. That's why He is set over the Church. If somebody is following Christ, they're following the Father.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 Well, when Paul talks about following Christ it surely has to be referring to following in his footsteps. The reason I mention that is because quite a number of Christians talk about Christ and sanctify his name consistently. However, the prophets of old sanctified and prayed to Yahweh (YHWH). While it's true that Yahweh installed Jesus as King of heaven and earth, it's important to remember that our worship must go to Yahweh alone since He is the most high (Psalm 83:18). Also, if we don't use His name it becomes lost, and then people may start to assume that Jesus Christ is Yahweh.
@@colinpierre3441
In Philippians 2:9-11, it states:
“Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
The passage emphasizes that God has given Jesus a name above every name, and that every knee should bow and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. The term “Lord” (Greek: Kyrios) is significant here as it often translates the Hebrew “Yahweh” in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint). This means that in calling Jesus “Lord,” the text is ascribing to Him the divine name and authority, indicating His divinity and supreme status.
@@JohnAdams-zh4tz "Lord" (Kyrios) in some Bible translations is used to replace the divine name as you said. However, when used to replace the divine name it is written with all-capital letters rather than the way it's used for Jesus. God has given Jesus authority in heaven over all the other angels, but God is still the "most high" (Psalm 83:18). For example, Pharaoh gave Joseph authority over "all the land of Egypt" (Genesis 41:41), however Pharaoh still held the highest authority.
The sad part of 99.99%of ex mormons is that
1. they never search for true gospel after they leave.
2. They never leave because they are always coming back and talking about the church.
3. They stop praying, reading scriptures,doing service, helping others.
4. Give into wordly temptation, keep the sabbath day unholy...
5. Revert quickly back to the natural man.
I love Frank's work and come back regularly to hear him out on things. What I find frustrating are these intrusive illustration clips they keep putting in. It takes me out of what is being said and I don't think it's necessary in my opinion. If Frank talks about anger, I don't need to see high quality stock footage of an actor screwing their face up. If he talks about a man eating breakfast, I don't need to literally see a man eating breakfast to know what he's talking about. It's like reading a book with constant lift up flaps. Just give me the actual debate footage please. (disclaimer: not meaning to rant, just my preference)
Whenever you think book of Mormon remember south park.
They were accurate.
Yes they were, along with scientology and Catholicism.
Yup 🙂
False.
South parks depiction is made the f up. If you want to say so is the book of mormon. Fine. But your claim is still false.
Like the hat thing for example. Little is known about the actual process of translating the record, primarily because those who knew the most about the translation, Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, said the least about it. Moreover, Martin Harris, David Whitmer, and Emma Smith, who assisted Joseph, left no contemporary descriptions.
@@a-atheist Omg we have one.
@@a-atheist "South parks depiction is made the f up"
So it is 🙂 Hilarious! But it reveals the arrogance of everyone that claims to be the True Christians (having no "works" to prove it).
As a Mormon you likey don’t believe the way I do. But I worship God with all my Heart. And his Son Jesus Christ. Call me what you want. I’m still going to follow the 10 commandments and try to be a good person. If you think, I’m misguided or wrong that’s ok. If you think I’m going to Hell for believing in Jesus Christ then I think your judgement is clouded. I know I cannot earn my way into Heaven, I am saved by Grace after all I can do. I have to repent and try harder but I do try. I have many friends who are Baptist, or of other faiths and I love them and I know God has reserved a special place in Heaven because they are absolute angels on this earth. Such good people. But if you look at me with eyes of judgement because I believe The Father and the Son are different entities then like I said that’s ok. I happen to believe the account of the 14 year old boy named Joseph Smith who actually saw The Father and the Son. Hate me for that belief if you will, but just know what I return to you is Love my friend!
😂😂😂, dude the Bible says God allows ppl to believe what they want and worship false gods and false teachings and that's exactly what you are doing
I'm glad you made this video,Christianity is all about sacrifices, what you can sacrifice for God and humanity. l've always trusted God, and when I prayed, he answered me even when I was homeless and financially unstable
he sent a helper, Ms. Deborah Lee Clark, who advised me financially, and now I make 34k every 3 weeks! I can now give back to the locals in my community and also support God's work and the church. God bless🇺🇸❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
God is more than enough for us, and his
mercy is new every morning. Hallelujah🎉🎉❤️
Isaiah 45:3 speaks of a transference of
riches from the heathen to the righteous... will give you the treasures of darkness and the riches hidden in secret... I received this for my household in Jesus' name. Amen!
Thank God for your life, God bless you and your family more abundantly, Amen!
But then, how do you get all that in that
period of time? What is it you do please, mind sharing?
@@Anthonyp12721 Thank you, brother,
God bless you, too. Amen
If you flip the question and use this commentators reasoning (our beliefs vs theirs) then Mormons could consider Frank not to be a Christian. I think he would be abhorred at the thought that someone would consider him not Christian.
Let's not be exclusive about who can be Christian. We are better together in Christ than divided.
So Christianity doesn’t really have anything to do with believing in Christ, which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are literally founded on?
A different "Jesus." Not related at all to the real God.
@@mikefranklin1253 That literally makes no logical or rational sense at all. Having different beliefs about God doesn't mean it's a different God. And who are you to know what the real God is? Have you met him, talked to him?
Amen✝️🕊️
I love the words of Apostle Paul. He wrote the Roman's and said, The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Roman's 8:16-17)
This verse teaches a few items. 1) we are all children of God. 2) we are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ to what God has to offer as we join and follow Christ (practice faith), who showed us the way back to God. 3) God and Jesus are separate individuals who are unified and one in purpose.
Apostle Paul words separate God and Jesus in this text. The same principle is shown in Acts 7:55 while Stephen is being murdered. The scripture reads, "he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God," Again, why separate God and Jesus this way if they are one individual?
I have many friends from different religious backgrounds. I've found that it is best for us to unify in our common beliefs, see the good from one another, and practice the good and righteous living that each has to offer.
When Paul said we are children of God he didn’t say we are ALL children of God. Only those who are born again and saved, filled with the Holy Spirit are God’s children and He then becomes our Father. When you are sealed with the Spirit of truth then you will know that the only God of Salvation is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. This is the only way and all those other religions will lead you to be eternally separated from the one true God. Jesus is Lord.
Why do they always put background music when it’s not needed? V annoying
" V annoying"
Yes, like being so lazy you can't spell out a simple word that has only 4 letters.
@@Packhorse-bh8qn Lke ths?
@@brendanwong4907 Even worse. Not only are you lazy, you are proud of being lazy.
LDS defines God as the chief executive, divine authority. This is more like the Hebrews' understanding of God. In the old testament, "Elohim" is used as almost every reference to "God" or "Lord" in English. This Hebrew word means there is plurality to the individuality of "God." There is one divine authority, a plural executive including distinct beings: the Father, Jesus Christ as a manifestation of the essence of the Father, and the Holy Spirit. It's not actually that much different than the trinity, it's just better defined and makes more sense according to the actual text of the bible.
Actually your completely wrong: The TWO Powers in Heaven israelite theology of the 2nd temple period point out a Duelistic nature of YHWH.
One an invisible Father YHWH and two a Visible YHWH who is the Pre-incarnate Jesus and why Jesus says " I am " and existed before Abraham.
Genesis 19: 24 has BOTH persons of YHWH in it.
And God's Spirit is also spoken of in the Hebrew Bible.
Roman's 8: 9 -11; calls the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God and of Christ that is living in Christians, and that is only possible with the Trinity.
Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all separate distinct beings, correct. We call it the Godhead not Trinity. We don't believe Jesus was talking to himself when He talked about Heavenly Father. Jesus Christ created Earth under guidance from Heavenly Father so when Jesus said He was before Abraham He wasn't lying nor was He claiming to be God.
@davidjanbaz7728 that's kind of an arbitrary interpretation, and it doesn't actually refute my point.
What else can we do to divide this country. Even we as Christians cannot unite because the Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc, etc, cannot get along.
Absolutely not!
Yes they do! Lol
Short answer: "No, they don't. "
@@jamesw4250
You've commented with an abundance of ignorance as usual.
@@jamesw4250 They falsely believe that both God and Jesus were once NOT God, this is NOT Judaism or Christianity who both correctly teach the Eternality of the True God, Yahweh, Who Himself even emphasizes His Own Eternal Nature by the Name: "I AM".
See John 8:58, Exodus 3:14 and John 1:1-4
@Remy4489 it's the same god of Abraham. Same one the Muslims and jews worship. You are quite simply wrong. Just because their interpretations are different doesn't mean they believe in a different god.
..let him be anathema!
Catholicism is not Christianity either❗️✝️ 😇
Then there is no Christianity, for Protestantism depends on Catholicism for everything it has.
"Catholicism is not Christianity either"
A billion Catholics wonder at your arrogance.
Wrong! The church started after Christ's ascension and that church was the Church of Antioch. The apostate RCC didn't become official until the late 590's AD with pope Gregory. Furthermore, RCC is the church that heavily persecuted genuine Christians and initiated the Crusades. This false church brings great shame because they aren't teaching the Gospel/GOOD NEWS they teach a works righteousness religion like all the other false religions.
@@beadoll8025you forgetting the Council of Nicene?
@@Christian_Tango_Christ I think you just misspoke. Since protestantism comes after Catholicism.
King Follett discourse, read it and you will know!
Different Jesus altogether. There’s a reason there are no maps in the back of the Book of Mormon. It’s a fictional story.
"It’s a fictional story."
So what parts of the bible can be proven not fictional? You, and everyone here, chooses what to believe.
Was not the Protestant Jesus Jehovah before He was born?
Was not the Protestant Jesus born of the virgin Mary?
Did not the Protestant Jesus grow in spirit as a child both in Egypt and Nazareth?
Did not the Protestant Jesus fast for 40 days and 40 nights then be tempted by Satan?
Was not the Protestant Jesus perform miracle after miracle to glorify His Father?
Was not the Protestant Jesus given up to the council by one of His own?
Did not the Protestant Jesus start suffering in Gethsemane asking this cup be taken from Him?
Was not the Protestant Jesus crucified as an innocent while a know criminal was set free?
Did not the Protestant Jesus suffer and die to pay the price for our sins, then rise again the third day to conquer death?
Was not the Protestant Jesus one with the Father as Jesus expects His disciples to be?
Did not the Protestant Jesus go to other sheep which were not of His fold in Palestine?
For thus the Mormons teach. And if this is not your Jesus, then you are correct, we have a different one.
@@Charistoph the “Protestant” Jesus is God in the flesh.
The “Mormon” Jesus is Satan’s brother
Big difference
@@johndardi1334 Yeah he conveniently skipped the most important differences. Incredibly dishonest. Jesus is not the same in Mormonism or Islam.
Look up the Heartland people or mound people. Its pretty interesting. A whole people in america that just vanished.
Of course not
Early on in Genesis the reader is introduced to cosmic evil and the nature of that evil when the serpent instructs Eve with "you too can be like God". What religion tells their believers that they too can become gods? MORMONISM
So it's wrong to be like God?
@@mattr.1887Yes! We are not like God nor can we ever become like Him, ever.
@@mattr.1887 We can't. We are not eternal, not all knowing, not all powerful, did not create all matter, and are not sinless or perfect love. LDS and Satan sell something we cannot be.
The lie Satan told was that “ye shall not surely die.” Genesis 3:22 says, The lie Satan told was that “ye shall not surely die.” Genesis 3:5 says, “ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.”
If children then heirs of God and co heirs with christ. 'Mormonism' follows scripture
Forget the planet idea. I am a seventy-eight yr old Latter -day Saint. I clearly am not taught the "my own planet" concept.
But, you are taught that Jesus and Satan are brothers...right?
@@edadan When people have the same father, typically they are considered brothers.
@@HaleStorm49Jesus created lucifer. He’s no more his brother than my father is my sibling.
@@HaleStorm49 As someone just posted, Satan(Lucifer) was created by Jesus. This is why you're not a Christian. You don't believe God's Word. You believe the lies of a false, man-made religion that promises to make you a God when you die. Is this not exactly what Satan wanted for himself...and the very reason that he was cast out of Heaven?
@@justojust Jesus created a being of pure evil to crucify Him and lead most of humanity to hell? No wonder we have so many atheists.
Seventh day Adventist is a doctrine of man invented in the 1800s
A lot of ex-mormons here. Its so wild how little ex-mormons really understand about the religion they claim to have belonged to. This guy gave the best answer he could with the information he had, so i can't fault him for that. He doesn't make the claim that Mormons aren't Christian, he claims that they're not traditional Christians, which I guess depends on your definition of "traditional". We believe in God the Father, in his Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. They are 3 distinct individuals, yet one in purpose. We don't worship Joseph Smith, or Moroni, or the current President of the Church. To claim that Mormons aren't Christian is to ignore the literal name of the church: The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints.
Just like how people “ignore” the literal name of NORTH KOREA!!! - “democratic people’s Republic of Korea” 😂 cuz a name is totally always accurate 👌🏾
To be clear: Are you saying that Mormons do not believe that men can become gods or a sort of eternal progression?
@@ProjectKneepads no of course not, but that's usually something detractors bring up and it lacks context completely. They point to it and say "look how crazy the Mormons are, thinking they can be like God". If you're actually interested I can give you the context and what we actually believe in and the doctrine around it, because it's very simple and all contained in the Bible and backed up by the Book of Mormon. But people don't usually want to know. They just throw shade and hate.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
I'll stick with what the Apostle Paul says that if any man comes to you with a different gospel than the one we first present let that man be cursed again I say If any man comes with a different gospel if an angel comes down from heaven with a different gospel let that one be accursed
That might hold some water if christians could agree on the Gospel. They can't. Many different versions. So lots of accursed folks who got it wrong.
Jesus came preaching the gospel o kingdom and said that until heaven and Earth pass, nothing shall be removed from the Law of God.... Yet you have most of Christianity twisting Paul's writings to say we don't have to obey the law of God anymore....
This is the work of the anti Messiah
@@SG-jv5zi there's a big difference between observing the law and being under the law the law of Moses was written for the Jewish people not for Gentiles unless they were willing to put themselves under the law but any man that puts himself under the law puts himself under a curse because cursed is him who doesn't continue in all these things
@@SG-jv5zi I can sum it up in the beginning of a song that I once heard it goes they talk about the law the twisting the law the law doesn't save us it just shows us our flaws the law is the tutor that leads us to Christ by faith Justified and he gives us life
@@redplanet76 that's why I'm not supposed to follow Christians I'm supposed to follow Jesus and keep my eyes on him when I take my focus off of him that's when I fall I'm not supposed to look at my circumstances and my situations even though I do sometimes but my personal belief is that the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is the true word of God
I'm pretty sure exaltation is foundational to Mormonism. Any Mormon rejecting it would likely be rejected by their church should they fail to change after being corrected.
There is no rejection. We believe all will go where they perfectly belong in the heavens. This is according to they laws they choose to follow in life.
@@Cumeni-Ha teaching God is created is not Christian
@@JadDragon you define or God defines?
@@Cumeni-Ha God. He defines Himself as uncreated. You don't. I trust God, not you.
@@JadDragon that is correct, God defines.
You answer that question perfectly my friend
No, he didn't. He answered it in prejudiced ignorance. We do not reject grace. We, like the NT saints, let our actions prove our faith out of love for the Lord and his Father. We are tritheistic or even polytheistic. We worship only one God, that God is Jesus' God and our Father and his Father. Just because we interpret the Bible without the Creeds as a lens does not make us wrong, that is called arbitrary gatekeeping and it is wrong.
What would you rather have, someone trying to be a Christian, or someone proclaiming they are Christian while tearing down others who are trying to be Christian? Look in the mirror and be careful not to break your own glass while throwing that stone!
It's not about throwing stones. It's about calling people out of the cult of mormanism and into true faith in Jesus Christ.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the dis ciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Nope, LDS is not Christian.
Said by a gatekeeper with no authority.
"Nope, LDS is not Christian."
Fortunately, you are not the judge of such things (and neither is anyone else here). Christ will decide who is Christian, and one element of that, is NOT judging others. So consider carefully your judgment of others.
@@thomasmaughan4798 God's word is not to be added to or taken away from. LDS believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings doing the same job. Jesus said "I am the beginning and the End" "Alpha and Omega" "First and Last." Jesus IS God. And you all may have outlawed polygamy but you still pay reverence to joseph Smith and Brigham Young. The main point joseph Smith MADE UP the religion was for plural marriage. And btw, John 7:24 says "do not judge by appearances, but judge with righteous judgement." So I will obey that and I will ALWAYS defend Christianity, true putting Jesus first Christianity!
@@Charistoph _Said by a gatekeeper with no authority._
From you who has no authority either to say it is. But the Bible is the authority and it isn't Christian.
@@thomasmaughan4798 _Fortunately, you are not the judge of such things (and neither is anyone else here)._
Neither are you, so stop judging. But since the basis isn't our judgment but the Bible's judgment, we don't have to be. We just have to accept what the Bible says.
Mormonism teachings sounds like new age teachings. If you read just a little bit of the Bible as a born-again believer, the Mormon teachings should sound so ridiculous to you, truth from error. Praying for the loss sheep in these cultish organizations, only God knows each individuals heart.
Galatians 1:8
“But should we, or an angel from Heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.”
"Praying for the loss sheep in these cultish organizations,"
Isn't the saying something like "Religion = Cult + Time"? You may think Mormon beliefs sound ridiculous, there are likely many who may think the same of yours
@kinggenius930
You have to be born again by the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Bible, as stated in the original comment. Truth from error. Everything about God sounds ridiculous to nonbelievers because they have scales over their eyes, and some don't want the truth.
@@NewCreationInChrist896 "You have to be born again by the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Bible"
So in order to accept the Bible and see that it is true, you first have to accept the Bible as true.
That seems like remarkably circular logic.
What is the gospel that Paul preached, and how do Mormons teach otherwise? Please provide proper references.
"Mormonism teachings sounds like new age teachings."
Yes, it is certainly newer than things that are older. Most Christians have no answers for modern problems, and no way to get answers -- well, not at a denomination level. Anyone can get answers from God. But only a prophet or apostle can speak authoritatively for a denomination or church.
If you want to know what Mormons believe, ask a Mormon. You don't ask a Mormon what Frank believes in.
I was raised Catholic, but I never get an honest answer when I talk to Catholics about Mary. Likewise, I've talked to quite a few Mormons and I never get a straight answer from any of them. Why is it that they don't want to admit what their true beliefs are when talking to "outsiders"?
Definition of a cult is they deny the deity of Christ
Or you can just read it for yourselves. I have a Book of Mormon written in the 1960’s, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants written in the 1920’s and they don’t read the same as my 1991 and later versions; they have been rewritten in many areas
Mormans believe in a man who completely lied to them. So many contradictions. I don't get how anyone could believe that non sense.
@@edadanthrow out any questions
Is there anywhere i can watch the full thing. These clips low key make me angry because its to short im trying to listen to it all while playing a game or woodworking.
I know what you mean.
Frank, how would you respond to those who think that “only weak people rely on God”?
Nope and neither are Unitarian’s
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I'd like to post a more accurate perspective from the one presented here. I'm sure both of these guys have good intentions. But they are sadly misinformed. I'll touch on three of his key points.
1. We DO NOT believe that we are traditional Christians. He is absolutely correct in that point. But the reason we do not, is because the early church apostatized from the original foundation within 200 or so years of the time of Christ. This shouldn't shock anyone. It was prophesied of in the NT repeatedly. In fact, Acts 3:20-21 prophecies that Christ will not return until the restitution (to make whole of things that were lost) of ALL THINGS. There was never a restitution of something that didn't need to be restored. There are many other NT verses supporting the falling away. We do not want to be considered traditional Christians, who were caught up in the Hellenization of Christianity.
2. He repeatedly accuses us of being polytheistic. This is technically incorrect. We worship one God. Polytheism involves the worship of many gods. However, I believe his intent is to infer that we believe we can become gods ourselves. I agree that this is a fundamental difference in our respective theologies. Yet the Bible repeatedly teaches that we can partake of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:4-8), become one with the Father and the Son, but not in essence as taught by the non-biblical trinitarian doctrine (John 17:2-23, 1 Tim 2:5, Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 6:17) and become like our Father in Heaven (Ps 82:1-6; John 10:30-36, Matt 5:48, Acts 17:28-29, Romans 8:15-18 and more).
3. It was hard to choose a third point but I'm going to explain our understanding of salvation by grace. This sometimes becomes frustrating because I explain WE DO BELIEVE IN SALVATION BY GRACE, NOT BY WORKS! But Evangelicals often refuse to believe me, or they pull out some quote that shows we believe in works. And we do. I'll explain. We are saved by grace but the question is "saved from what?" We are saved from the wrath of God, which is a natural result of our fallen natures and sin. The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus Christ will save us from that wrath if we believe in Him and trust Him to do what we cannot. BUT THIS IS NOT THE SAME THING as qualifying for Eternal Life. As the rich young ruler found out, it takes a lot more than just salvation from wrath to gain Eternal Life. That does require our effort. It's what James was talking about in James 2. It's what Jesus told the rich young man. It's why we have the Beatitudes and virtually the entire NT. Those things aren't nice suggestions. They are what the Lord desires from us and when we fall short, we can repent. But eventually in His time and according to His enabling grace, we can become like Him (1 John 3:2-3).
I want to point out that if I want to know what Republicans believe, I'm not going to get the real story from a Democrat (and vice versa). If I want to know if science and religion conflict, I'm not going to get the best answer from most scientists. And the same is true here. You are NOT going to get the correct version of our beliefs by asking one who is critical of what we believe. It doesn't work that way.
I hope you all have a great day and thank you for taking the time to read a few clarifications on what we believe.
Polytheism is not the worship of multiple gods just the belief in them. You are polytheistic. You teach God was a created being and there are gods over Him.
You aren't remotely Christian.
@TheRealDonLayton I appreciate you wanting to share and set the record straight on what you believe. However I am puzzled by a few things.
#1 if mormonism is not a polytheism religion, yet teaching that there are 3 individual God's, how is that not polytheism?
#2 What is Polytheism to you, since 3 individual God's is not your definition of polytheism?
@@JadDragon Call it what you want. Polytheism is defined as the "belief in or worship" of multiple gods. I favor the limited view but if you want to include the more liberal view, that's fine. But be consistent because if you accuse LDS of polytheism under that definition, you had better agree that the Bible is polytheistic. (And yes, I know what it says in Isaiah about one God. Interesting though that each time, the prophet is speaking in the context of idolatry, not in the divine nature.) And it's not within your authority to tell other people who are and are not Christian. You're trying to make yourself into God. He alone is judge. How utterly "Christian" of you.
@@dman7668 We're probably dealing with semantics. Polytheism is defined as "the worship or belief in" multiple gods. To me, it's the worship of multiple gods. To you, it may include the belief in multiple gods. Whatever it is however, my point is that my belief is consistent with the Bible. The passages I shared are only a few of the dozens that point to the divine nature of man.
@TheRealDonLayton
No, I do not think this is semantics. You believe there are 3 God's. That is absolutely polytheistic. I just don't understand how a person can say it is not Polytheism while at the same time say they believe in 3 seperate God's. That's very confusing on my end with all complete respect and due honesty. I don't personally think Christianity has ever embraced the idea of multiple God's prior to mormonism. Perhaps you can find some historical basis for this asserted but not substantiated Christian idea?
They are by definition NOT Christian’s.
Jesus is God, not one of manny.
By whose definition?
What about God the father?
Christianity is dogmatic and has historical hierarchy and authority over what is defined to be a Christian denomination. Mormonism *is not* by any stretch of imagination, and what "non-christians" think can not change Christian dogma.
@@Ruby_Villain . God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit. The trinity.
@@wes2176 The Trinty is biblical.
Here is an interesting thought to ponder. Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, and Muslims are not Christian by evangelical, theological definition, but, they are all offspring of God and included in the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ.
Humanity was not saved by believing a particular theology, we were saved, justified, redeemed, reconciled and begotten again by the death, blood, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The working out of this objective truth into subjective experience is what Father, Son, and Spirit do in the life of every human.
This is the gospel. No bad news at all.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those discip les, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@@trentitybrehm5105 This comment appeared under a comment that I made and it has nothing to do with what I said.
Did you respond to something else and put it under my comment by mistake?
Mormonism emerged during the Second Great Awakening and given the time it makes sense that Joseph Smith would co-opt Christian language and concepts to define his unique cosmology. I have to wonder if Joseph Smith was born 100 years later would he instead use the language of science and technology and produce something more akin to Scientology.
Nope not even close to a disciple of CHRIST JESUS.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved
Any person that tells me that Jesus and the devil are brothers is the devil because he is a liar Jesus is God the whole universe can't contain him the Devil is a created being a speck to God's littlest toe
Perhaps you can quote from the Mormons, like in their scriptures or something, where it says Jesus and the Devil are brothers.
Why did God create the devil?
@@mattr.1887 you know you can ask him yourself I could give you what I think is an answer but I don't know what the mind of God is but I do know this that even the devil serves God everything in creation serves God
@@redplanet76 are you claiming that you don't teach we are all spirit siblings, including Jesus and Satan?
@@JadDragon The comment thread we were discussing on seems to have gotten deleted so I’m replying here. Context isn’t self evident or there would be no need for pastors, or biblical degrees. If you truly trust that they got it right for 2000 years then you are catholic and reject the reformation. If it was self evident there would be no need for literary analysis or creeds. Or Paul correcting the saints because of their false understandings. The Protestants condemn the Catholics so the misinterpretations must have been egregious.
NO! Mormonism is nutbar factor 6!
Those in glass houses should not throw stones.
@@Gek1177 I'm sorry I worship the True and Living God Jesus Christ and I don't believe Jesus is Satan's brother and furthermore I don't believe it's possible for a mere mortal to become a god or gods of their own planet.
Please Develop a relationship with the true Jesus Christ and be Saved for your sake.
@@beadoll8025 no, you worship what you believe to be the true and living God.
What you can't do is be intellectually honest about how your beliefs compare to Mormonism.
And your beliefs are perfectly reasonable?
I read the book of Mormon. It had no power. Was a bit boring and seemed as if someone was trying to create something to rival the bible. Just my opinion.
All Glory to GOD
As to the glory John 17:22.
They're pretty much the same as Jehovah's false witnesses.
100% wrong
In that they’re both not christian’s so yes
Mormon theology is very different from what we as Jehovah's Witnesses believe. We believe that only the Father is God. God’s personal name is Jehovah (Psalm 83:18). Jesus is God's son. Jesus was "begotten" by God, or produced by God. He is God's "firstborn" (Col 1:15) and the beginning of the creation by God (Revelation 3:14). God the Father, on the other hand, does not have a beginning. (Psalm 90:2) 1 Corinthians 8:6 states, "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." Jesus is rightly called Lord since God is the one who made him Lord (Acts 2:36) and exalted him to the highest position (Phil 2:9) and gave him all authority over heaven and earth (Mat. 28:18), but Jesus is not the same as Almighty God. Jesus even refers to his Father on more than one occasion as "my God". (John 20:17, Rev 3:12) In John 17:3, Jesus called his Father in heaven "the only true God."
@@jollyrancher521 what happened in 1975 ?
@@jollyrancher521 Well said Brother. ❤
Mormon guy here. This is something I could never understand about Protestant Christianity. The arrogance! Who are you to tell me I’m not Christian?!?
As a Mormon missionary my favorite thing to teach was that many people believe in God. Though we may call him by different name, most people believe in God. Look for what we have in common.
These same Protestant Christians say the same thing about Muslims. I could never imagine telling someone their belief is wrong like that. Very strange to me
I was a Mormon for years and it never occurred to me I wasn’t a Christian.
@@user-pe2wq8rm1k
Did it ever occur to you that a god doesn't actually exist?
But,it is though.. so why not attempt to inform them? Means that one doesn't care about another's salvation to not inform them.
I care enough about your salvation to say that Joe Smith was a fraud. That Mormons are not really "Christians. Their Mormons,.. just like they claim to be. Simple. You said it yourself" Mormon guy here" .
If the Bible is so corrupted,show me in the dead sea scrolls the differences and the date of the changes?
My dead sea Bible correlates with the KJV with absolute accuracy. How come they are totally different from the book of Mormon? The dead Sea scrolls predate the KJV by 1800 years , and Joseph Smith by over 2000 years. But yet are perfectly matched to the KJV,but nowhere near the book of Mormon.
Personally I think the book of Mormon is right there along with the book of Enoch in terms of biblical reliability and reference. It's simply not biblical. Any religion that thinks that a human could receive a better revelation than Jesus is a false religion, .. period. That includes Islame as well.
This is not a protestant neither, I'm Christian.. period. Show me the scriptures that show where all the denominations are separated at the gates of heaven? There are none. Faith in Christ Jesus is NON-DENOMINATIONAL!
The Bible tells you that you are not Christian.
Simple question for you. Who is Jesus?
It's very hard to answer this question correctly when Frank's core beliefs about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are dead wrong. Polytheistic? Please.
Do mormons believe that Jesus is God?
LDS has been very clear since Joseph Smith. As man is God once was. This is a direct quote. LDS believes in endless Gods. It worships a different Father and Son. God bless.
@@brettpinion4233, there is but one God. The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are united in ways that marriage is to be akin to (Genesis 2: 24). In that unity, they are all God. What one says, it is if all were saying it. Jesus points this out a couple times in His great Intercessory Prayer in John 17. "...Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." -v11, KJV. "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." - 21, KJV.
We are expected to become one with Jesus and the Father. In so doing, we become God, just like John said, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." -1 John 3: 2, KJV.
Joseph Smith, Jr, was just speaking in modern English, not English from 300 years before translated from Greek.
It's clickbait. Things were getting a bit slow in Christian Chaos land.
@@brettpinion4233 "LDS has been very clear" is inaccurate. Opinions by early church leaders has been, uh, mixed. Polygamy and prohibition of black men to the priesthood are two that come to mind. One could just as easily cite those and claim they're current doctrine. So no, the church is not polytheistic. It does not promise we will become gods with our own planets. It does not claim God was once a man.
I went to a college in a small town where there were three churches on the corner of an intersection, like competing fast food restaurants. The older professors told of a time not too long ago where Methodists, Lutherans, and Baptists on each corner believed the other two denominations’ churches were going to hell for their poor theology.
It is impossible to say if they worship "the same god." It does not matter; if they say they worship god, they do. Since no one has ever shown that a god actually exists, we have to accept that they worship some god of their own creation, just like all other folks of all other religions.
One thing all religions have in common, they all think they're right, and everyone else is wrong, when they are probably ALL wrong.
The right one are those who have the scripture (guidance) revealed from god Himself; ie. authored by god Himself. Such scripture is flawless and protected against corruption.
@@sethsuleiman4419Then we need a God to come forward and explain (to everyone) which scripture actually comes from him. A real God should be able communicate to its people better.
@@hhh-et2vi God's way is to appoint and reveal guidance to prophets who then conveyed to the people (in human terms). He has done it over the ages since noah.
@@sethsuleiman4419 That's a terrible way to pass down information, if your God was all powerful he wouldn't play the game of telephone, you would never trust me if I claimed to be a prophet.
@@sethsuleiman4419 Then you mention Noah, wasn't he 950 years old, hmmmmmm
The funny thing is, no proper Mormon has claimed that they are traditional Christians. That is because what is considered a traditional Christian has been led astray by the philosophies of men mingled with scripture, aka The Creeds. That is why Mormons consider themselves Restoriationists. There is as much traditional Christianity in Mormons as there is traditional Judaism in any Christian. Well, may be a bit more.
One other point, it seems that the speaker is either not familiar with notable parts of The Bible, or has a misunderstanding of what Mormons teach. I doubt Dr Brady Blevins is properly informed either, as they both filter Mormon words through their own views without properly attempting to understand them.
Both Jesus Christ and James have words about those who think simply believing will provide salvation with nothing more being needed. In Matthew 25, Jesus gives 2 parables, the Parable of the Talents and the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. In both cases there was someone who believed, but did nothing more, and so were cast out. James (emphasized in chapter 2) warns that those do nothing more than believe will have dead faith, and it won't help them.
One last note, there is but one God. The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are united in ways that marriage is to be akin to (Genesis 2: 24). In that unity, they are all God. What one says, it is if all were saying it. Jesus points this out a couple times in His great Intercessory Prayer in John 17. "...Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." -v11, KJV. "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." - 21, KJV
Nothing about the Trinity is spoken in this, unless the speaker is suggesting that we will all become one conglomeration in Christ?
We are expected to become one with Jesus and the Father. In so doing, we become God, just like John said, "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." -1 John 3: 2, KJV.
"no proper Mormon has claimed that they are traditional Christians."
Thank you. I am certainly a Christian, but using the word in ordinary conversation is imprecise since thousands of different Christian churches exist with many deep differences.
I find the creeds to be incomprehensible; apparently by design.
@@thomasmaughan4798 If you're morm you aren't Christian. You don't have truth.
You teach God is created, you aren't Christian. You have no truth.
@@JadDragon, your statement is lacking context and therefore false. Try learning of our teachings from us rather than from those who sell religion for money.
Correct. Restore and revert. Not convert. Everyone on planet Earth once knew about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ unfortunately over time here on Earth people have been led astray.
I love a lot of Frank's work but this is a major blind spot in his understanding of the gospel and the Bible as a whole.
Please elaborate for the rest of us.
@@kingbradley9066 There is a lot that could be said but let's just look at the issue of what he refers to as "polytheism". In short, I think it's a mistake to suggest that Christ did not mean what he said when he quoted Psalm 82. (Psalm 82 is a powerful one and worth your read if you really want to understand.) Jesus quotes it to great effect when the Jews accuse him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God. He refutes them by teaching them the scripture they already have. He says, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?"
We are created in God's image and we are His heirs. As Paul explains to the Romans "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ."
Christ reiterates this in Revelation 3:21
when He says, "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."
This is much different than what much of the rest of Christianity teaches but it is what Christ Himself teaches and it is what his apostles.
Frank does fantastic work, he just misses this very fundamental message in the gospel despite the fact that it is clearly and repeatedly taught.
@@loudogg73 if you teach a different God and a different Jesus, you aren't Christian. And morms do, so they aren't
@@JadDragon We worship the Jesus of the Bible. If that’s who you worship too, then that’s wonderful. If that’s not who you worship, then that does not change who we worship.
@@kingbradley9066 There is a lot that could be said but let's just look at the issue of what he refers to as "polytheism". In short, I think it's a mistake to suggest that Christ did not mean what he said when he quoted Psalm 82. (Psalm 82 is a powerful one and worth your read if you really want to understand.) Jesus quotes it to great effect when the Jews accuse him of blasphemy for claiming to be the Son of God. He refutes them by teaching them the scripture they already have. He says, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?" We are created in God's image and we are His heirs. As Paul explains to the Romans "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ." Christ reiterates this in Revelation 3:21 when He says, "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." This is much different than what much of the rest of Christianity teaches but it is what Christ Himself teaches and it is what his apostles. Frank does fantastic work, he just misses this very fundamental message in the gospel despite the fact that it is clearly and repeatedly taught.
I have a sensitive question that's important for me given my current thological studies:
Knowing that you can't use tradition alone, and fear through pathos as valid points:
if there were many persons who carried the title of Angel of Yhwh beside of Jesus, still fitting the echad attribute of the Shma,
- would that make the Son a shared title?
- if no, then would that break the concept of the Trinity, and why?
I googled Conversations with the Faith, but what I found are paid lessons and resources. I am looking for free information.
The Angel of the Lord is called God and worshipped as God, yet is a distinct person from God.
[[Exodus 3:2-6]] {burning bush}
And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
4 So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father-the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.
[[Genesis 16:7-14]]{Hagar}
Now the Angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. 8 And He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
She said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.”
9 The Angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.” 10 Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, “I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.” 11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”
13 Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for she said, “Have I also here seen Him who sees me?” 14 Therefore the well was called Beer Lahai Roi; observe, it is between Kadesh and Bered.
[[Genesis 22:11-18]]{Abrahm scraficing Issac}
But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!”
So he said, “Here I am.”
12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
13 Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of the place, The-Lord-Will-Provide; as it is said to this day, “In the Mount of the Lord it shall be provided.”
15 Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, 16 and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son- 17 blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18 In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”
[[Judges 2:1-2]]
Then the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. 2 And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this?
[[Judges 6:11-24]]{Gideon}
Now the Angel of the Lord came and sat under the terebinth tree which was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress, in order to hide it from the Midianites. 12 And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him, and said to him, “The Lord is with you, you mighty man of valor!”
13 Gideon said to Him, “O my lord, if the Lord is with us, why then has all this happened to us? And where are all His miracles which our fathers told us about, saying, ‘Did not the Lord bring us up from Egypt?’ But now the Lord has forsaken us and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites.”
14 Then the Lord turned to him and said, “Go in this might of yours, and you shall save Israel from the hand of the Midianites. Have I not sent you?”
15 So he said to Him, “O my Lord, how can I save Israel? Indeed my clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father’s house.”
16 And the Lord said to him, “Surely I will be with you, and you shall defeat the Midianites as one man.”
17 Then he said to Him, “If now I have found favor in Your sight, then show me a sign that it is You who talk with me. 18 Do not depart from here, I pray, until I come to You and bring out my offering and set it before You.”
And He said, “I will wait until you come back.”
19 So Gideon went in and prepared a young goat, and unleavened bread from an ephah of flour. The meat he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot; and he brought them out to Him under the terebinth tree and presented them. 20 The Angel of God said to him, “Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth.” And he did so.
21 Then the Angel of the Lord put out the end of the staff that was in His hand, and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire rose out of the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. And the Angel of the Lord departed out of his sight.
22 Now Gideon perceived that He was the Angel of the Lord. So Gideon said, “Alas, O Lord God! For I have seen the Angel of the Lord face to face.”
23 Then the Lord said to him, “Peace be with you; do not fear, you shall not die.” 24 So Gideon built an altar there to the Lord, and called it The-Lord-Is-Peace. To this day it is still in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
[[Judges 13:3-22]] (This one's important){Manoah and his wife, Samson's parents}
And the Angel of the Lord appeared to the woman and said to her, “Indeed now, you are barren and have borne no children, but you shall conceive and bear a son. 4 Now therefore, please be careful not to drink wine or similar drink, and not to eat anything unclean. 5 For behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. And no razor shall come upon his head, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.”
6 So the woman came and told her husband, saying, “A Man of God came to me, and His countenance was like the countenance of the Angel of God, very awesome; but I did not ask Him where He was from, and He did not tell me His name. 7 And He said to me, ‘Behold, you shall conceive and bear a son. Now drink no wine or similar drink, nor eat anything unclean, for the child shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb to the day of his death.’ ”
8 Then Manoah prayed to the Lord, and said, “O my Lord, please let the Man of God whom You sent come to us again and teach us what we shall do for the child who will be born.”
9 And God listened to the voice of Manoah, and the Angel of God came to the woman again as she was sitting in the field; but Manoah her husband was not with her. 10 Then the woman ran in haste and told her husband, and said to him, “Look, the Man who came to me the other day has just now appeared to me!”
11 So Manoah arose and followed his wife. When he came to the Man, he said to Him, “Are You the Man who spoke to this woman?”
And He said, “I am.”
12 Manoah said, “Now let Your words come to pass! What will be the boy’s rule of life, and his work?”
13 So the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Of all that I said to the woman let her be careful. 14 She may not eat anything that comes from the vine, nor may she drink wine or similar drink, nor eat anything unclean. All that I commanded her let her observe.”
15 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You.”
16 And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord.” (For Manoah did not know He was the Angel of the Lord.)
17 Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”
18 And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”
19 So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the Lord. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on- 20 it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar-the Angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. 21 When the Angel of the Lord appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the Lord.
22 And Manoah said to his wife, “We shall surely die, because we have seen God!”
[[Zechariah 12:8]]
In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them.
[[Zechariah 3:1-2]]
Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the Angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to oppose him. 2 And the Lord said to Satan, “The Lord rebuke you, Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”
Agree!
That whole spiel on the Trinity is the most confusing double-talk ever. To criticize the craziness of Mormons, while claiming three gods is really monotheism, is the biggest gas light in history.
The Trinity isn't 3 gods. It's 1 God.
Why are you pretending we teach something we don't?
@@JadDragon
How many "lords" are in your Trinity? Ephesians 4:5 says, one Lord, One Faith, one baptism. Your doctrine requires that there be more than one lord, more than one kind of Lord OR, God, the Father, is not the Lord. There are countless other contradictions built into this doctrine of men.
It's all confusion and double mindedness and, again, requires you to believe something that makes no sense. Our God, beside whom there is no other, Jesus Christ, is not the God of confusion but of peace.
@@The-F.R.E.E.-J. it's not confusion or double speak. You're purposefully misrepresenting what the Trinity is.
The Trinity is 1 God, not 3.
John 1:18 LSB
[18] No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
God holds God, there is 1 God.
Tell the truth about what we teach please.
@@JadDragon
Explain, ACCORDING TO THE TRINITY, Who are the "lords".
1) there are 2 or 3 lords?
2) there's different "types" of Lords?
3) there's 1 Lord so, the Father is NOT Lord?
According to the trinity, you must pick one which are all of confusion for, it denies / contradicts scripture.
I know you will not answer, you will only bring up some other scripture, which is a common technique of the religious, which makes us look like fools because you "prove" that scripture contradicts scripture. Trinity is idolatry & pagan & contempt for God, so you will not confess the One True & living God, Jesus Christ, who was & is & is to come.
@@The-F.R.E.E.-J. 4. The Father, Son and Spirit are all the same Lord.
As it's 1 God.
You are lying about the Trinity.
1. "Mormons are polytheistic" Right off the bat. Wrong. And yes they are monotheistic because they do in fact believe in one god. BY DEFINITION.
"relating to or characterized by belief in or worship of more than one god."
Mormons neither believe in, nor do they worship more than one god. As frank says, there's a difference between believing in, and believing that.
2. "As man is god once was." Wrong again.
The official Mormon position is NOT that man will ever become "equal" to god.
The Hebrew translation "“God”, “Eloah”, or “Elohim” are not a name, but a title that denotes power.
3. Even the first century Christians supports the notion that there are always indeed many gods:
"1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (ASV) For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many."
Clearly there's a "god" of North Korea. I guess if Christians acknowledge that fact they're not really Christians either.
Oh no! You mean if you're righteous enough you can be in charge of your own planet. How is that not christian exactly? Right. It doesn't contradict Christianity.
Oh because it denotes you're on the same level as christ?
No it doesn't, because thats a strawman of the mormon religion.
Also. Mormons do not believe that any human ever WILL become "god" lowercase g. All they say is its possible.
Oh so an all powerful god does not have the capacity to let someone rule over a planet and still worship him. Cool.
4. The essence and energy distinction solves things for you frank?
Thats interesting since that is still highly debated. No one is solving that anytime soon.
5. "You got grace and then you got to do more good works."
Nope. False. The Mormons hold the EXACT same view on that as Orthodox. So if thats true, then the orthodox Christians aren't christian either.
At least he said "Correct me if im wrong."
Well, he's wrong.
Everything you just said is false.
Why can morms not be honest about their own beliefs?
No audio. I think RUclips just censored you.
The fullness of faith is only found in the Catholic Church, but as a Catholic I’ve seen many Protestants that I see as closer to God than myself.
Don't you think that's a contradictory statement? If Catholicism is really the one true faith, why are "protestants" closer to God?
Mormons have the King James Bible as their main Bible. We believe in the trinity! Everyone I've talked to believes Jesus is of the father and the Holy Ghost.
You can't assume you know the BofM without living it.
Been reading the Book of Mormon Made Easier books and they all cross back and forth with the Bible.. There are things I don't yet understand but I'm still searching.
Jared Halverson a professional religious educator - BYU has great approaches for how to research approach faith crisis. James 1.5 if any of you lack wisdom let him ask.
Research Steven C Harper for questions on the Mormon faith, not a Christian who only assumes he knows what he's talking about when it comes to Mormons or what we are truly called, The Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints
We do not embrace the Trinity, we believe in the Godhead.
Trinity=3 beings one God
Godhead=3 beings united in all things except bodily, or as the 3-in-1 spirit essence that some Christians claim to worship.
It is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints with two "t"s, not "d"s
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@@jessekoeven3757 Jesus is the eteranl, uncreated, creator of all things. Ex Nihilo. Out of nothing.
@trentitybrehm5105 New World Archeology is catching up. There is plentiful evidence of all the things you just described among the Edina and Hopewell mound builder civilizations in the USA. As far as the "discrepancy" concerning Christ's birthplace. It was ancient practice if the audience of a speaker was not familiar with the geography of the area being referenced, to refer to the area as "the land of... then use a geographic place familiar to the audience as a reference and continue with the subject. Bethlehem is extremely close to Jerusalem, so this fits within the ancient practice. Besides, if Joseph had written the Book of Mormon, he would have invariably used Bethelehem, not "land of Jerusalem." I am not arguing historicity, but doctrinal consistency between the beliefs and practices of the Hebrews to the NT apostles, then to the Christian Church through its foundational years until it was renamed "the Roman Catholic Church" and with the embracing of the Trinity, among other doctrines and practices, that consistency goes away.
Nope.
True, it is just as "Christian", as Islam! 😂 Neither are Jehovah's witnesses.
Sorry but Satan will always fight against the truth which is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
It's not just Catholics or Mormons. Please read Revelation of Jesus Christ KJV. "I know your works, you say you have a name that's alive and you are dead."
God does not do dead things. (2nd commandment) Just Christian ever since Antioch, make NO mistake. ALL others are dead in antichrist.
Matt. 24:5 = 1 Jn. 2:18 KJV
The Bible describes the belief as being actually more Monolatristic.
Any of you Christians want to take on a Latter-Day Saint on what this gentleman has described? Just let me know. I have a zoom gathering every Monday and Tuesday at 6:00 p.m. Pacific time we can go at it as much as you want
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Isr ael,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Jesus is not plural.
Period.
The Bible doesn't teach the Trinity. Anyone can see this in both the New and Old Testaments. It does teach that we are potential gods being sons and daughters of God. This is a simple teaching that blinds many of those claiming to be followers of Christ. The followers/members or true disciples were called saints. LDS are the true Christians, while many of those calling themselves Christians, are actually following a false Christ. "Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me".
Where does the Bible say that people become God's? 😂😂😂.
Also, how can you say LDS are true Christians when the Bible refers to religions like Islam and mormanism as gospels not following the original word (Bible)?
Mormans give a different version of the Bible, yet the Bible deliberately says to reject anything that is different than in the Holy Bible..
Also, Joseph Smith wrote his own version of the Bible and wrote himself as a prophet into it. How ridiculous can you be to follow someone like this???
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit speak to each other and about each other like they are separate people.
There are passages where God speaks in the first person in the Old Testament, and Jesus will quote these in the first person about himself. He will claim things that are titles of God alone about himself and tells us he can not only hear our prayers but has the ability to answer them too.
Psalm 95:7 - for he is our God and we are the people of his pasture, the flock under his care. Today, if only you would hear his voice,
Isaiah 43:13 - Yes, and from ancient days I am he. No one can deliver out of my hand. When I act, who can reverse it?”
Deuteronomy 32:29 - “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Two of these are God speaking in the first person, one about God.
John 10:27-30 Jesus speaking, - 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
It continues to 33 with the Jewish audience picking up stones to kill Jesus, he asks for what good works do you stone me, and they say not for good works, but you being a man make yourself out to be God.
John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
John 5:19-23 Jesus said that he does everything exactly as he see the Father does and does everything the Father does and that Jesus will be judge and the Father will judge no one.
John 8, Jesus says that he saw Abraham and Abraham didn't try to kill him like the Jews were and Abraham was glad to see him. John 8:58, Jesus said that before Abraham was, I AM, which is what God told Moses his name was.
John 1:1,14 Jesus is the Word who was there in the beginning with God, and who was God, who took on flesh and dwelt among us.
Genesis 15:1-5 Jesus is the Word who came to Abram in a vision and gave him the promise of Issac, then verse 5 says the Word of the Lord (who is Jesus) lead Abram outside and gave him the promise of innumerable descendants, as many as the stars.
A human being is what I am. trenititybrehm is who I am.
God is what the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are. One God, who is three people.
The only reason the Trinity exists is because scripture teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus said, "Destroy this temple (meaning his body) and in three days, I will raise it up!" He did not say his Father would raise him, although the Father and the Holy Spirit are each explicitly given credit for raising Jesus.
Isaiah 43:11, God said there is no savior besides him. Titus 3:6 Jesus is called our Savior.
John 6:46, Jesus says no one has seen the Father, yet Abraham spoke face to face with God in Genesis 18:19, Moses spoke face to face with God in Exodus 33:11 and Moses and the elders of Israel went up Mount Sinai and saw the God of Israel seated on a throne and ate with him. Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:22-32.
Jesus is the one who ascends and descends out of heaven and the appearances of God throughout the Old Testament is Jesus. This is why he said before Abraham was, I am in John 8:58
Genesis 19:24 "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens." When LORD is all caps it's using God's holy name in Hebrew, and Abraham was just pleading face to face with God to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Gen 19:24 says Yahweh rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh out of heaven.
Jesus is the Yahweh who spoke to Abraham face to face and called sulfur and brimstone out of heaven from Yahweh the Father.
Jesus is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is what scripture taught from the beginning because it is from the scripture that the idea of the tri-unity between the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being God teaches. Not something come up with later.
Mark 1:1-4, the very first verses of the very first chapter of what is cited as the very first Gospel calls Jesus God. It references Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1 where Yahweh says he will send his messenger who will be like a voice in the wilderness to make the way before he himself comes to his temple. Mark says John is that voice in the wilderness, making the way for Jesus. John 1:23 , Matthew 3:3, and Luke 3:4 also say the exact same things. So all four Gospels call Jesus Yahweh in the first few chapters in the exact same way quoting the exact same Old Testament scriptures to do so.
In Mark 10:18, Jesus said,"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." Meaning: "You call me good when only God is good, do you understand what you are calling me?" To further the point, Christ then lists the 6 commandments that relate to how people deal with each other and asks the man if he's followed those. The man says yes. Then, instead of listing the 4 commandments on how to relate to God and asking if he's followed those, Jesus tells the man, "Follow me," because following and worshiping Christ is following and worshiping God.
In Mark Jesus heals the paralytic man, but first, he tells him your sins are forgiven. The Pharisees around thought in their hearts this was blasphemy, because only God can forgive sins. Jesus instantly know what they were thinking and called them out on it, and said to prove to you I can forgive sins, get up and walk and the paralytic could walk. Jesus proved he is God for only God can forgive sins, only God knows the hearts of men (Jeremiah 11:20 and 17:10), and only God can heal people. Jesus did all three in Mark's Gospel, which is often considered the oldest of the four.
Read Hebrews 1:8-12. Old Testament scriptures are quoted that are talking about God creating the universe, and Hebrews 1:8-12 quotes them and attributes the Father calling Jesus God, the Lord who created the everything, who is eternal.
Hebrews 1:10-12 Is directly quoting Psalm 102:25-27, where the Psalm is talking about Yahweh (God) and Hebrews is talking about Jesus, the Son.
Philippians 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Matthew 1:23
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means “God with us" )
Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God."
Revelation 1:17-18
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”
(God is speaking, saying he was there from the beginning, and that the Lord God and His Spirit sent him. The Trinity in the Old Testament.)
Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplic ation. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
These next passages are about the Holy Spirit being a separate person from the Father and the Son, and also being God.
Matthew 3:16-17
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 15:26-27
But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
John 16:13-15
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
2 Samuel 23:2-3 (David calling the Spirit God)
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me, And His word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spoke to me: ‘He who rules over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.
Acts 5:3-4 (Peter calling the Spirit God)
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the la nd for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created Lucifer and all things that are created. John 1:1-3 and Colossians 1:16-17
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
They have another Jesus, and that means they are a cult. They have another Jesus not the biblical Jesus.
LDS also deny the symbol of the cross.
😂
Tertullian in the 3rd century talked abiut the "emerging importance" of the cross.
The cross is just something that became popular over time. The cross symbol was meaningless at one point. It became mainstream when the evil and manipulative Constantine converted to Christianity.
@@jameseldridge4185 Symbol of the cross? It was - and is - an instrument of torture and death. In the early days of the church, the cross was not used for an identifier. It was the symbol of a fish. It was called the ichthys.
The Bible doesn't even mention the shape of the instrument Christ was hung on. It only says He was hung on a tree. "Christianity" appropriated the crucifix from the Tammuz cults and passed it off as a Christian symbol. Go ahead and look it up. They were using it as a phallic symbol long before Christ was ever born. Christ said that He would be placed on a pole like the serpent Moses was told to erect, and it wasn't placed on a cross.
That’s because they believe it was Jesus’ bloody sweat in the garden rather than His blood spilt on the Cross that was poured for our iniquities. I was utterly shocked when I found out that little detail.
Many verses have been supplied, that support, and plainly explain the Trinty. Still, many are blind to the truth . The Latter day saints, worship 3 Gods, which isn't biblical. God himself said, you shall have no other Gods. Catholics understand the Trinity , but also worship Mary. Their salvation, is also questionable. The JW, are another story, as is the Muslims, those who worship Buddha, etc, etc. Satan is the father of lies, ruler of this world, and does his job well. As the Bible says, the majority follow Satan, and will spend eternity, in the lake of fire. Only one God in Heaven, and will someday, call those who accepted him , as Jesus Christ, our Lord and savior , home. The rapture is soon. The signs of the second coming, are increasing daily, before our very eyes. Once you take your last breath, your eternity is decided. It's either eternity in Heaven, or eternity in the lake of fire. God wants you soul, Satan wants your soul. Whose will yours belong to?
@@saved217 The doctrine of the Holy Trinity came from the Catholic Church. It isn't soley based on the bible alone.
@@dman7668The Trinty came from the Bible, and is supported by much scripture. Who may, or may not, have coined the word Trinity, is illrelavent. It changes nothing. It's meaning is, the state of being three.
His position on grace is wrong. It is worth working through grace (or love). Gal 5:6.
I think there is subjectivity here. So what is the definition of a Christian? I would say someone who believes that Jesus Christ is God and in his role as the Savior. Mormons actual name is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints and the Book of Mormon is actually titled "The Book of Mormon another testement of Jesus Christ." They also believe in the bible. Yes they see the trinity as 3 seperate beings perfectly aligned in purpose. But I certainly think Christians would be the most accurate definition of Mormons.
Oh please, who would ask Judas for a fair and balanced view of Christ's teaching's? "I'm an ex Mormon" bs. It's great that no-one can be bothered to use the full title The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
All false religions: God didn’t say that, and you can be God.
It's not about a " christian denomination" but about being a FOLLOWER of Christ /a DICIPLE of Christ.
Many are followers of men and not Christ Jesus.
Mormons follow Joseph Smith.
Be careful you are not following your pastor.
Be careful you are not making diciples for yourself.
That's a good answer but weak in particulars. It means NO CHURCH for anyone; each person his very own pastor to himself, not seeking knowledge from anyone else. That is not efficient. God has sent prophets to advise humans; churches exist to provide pastors and evangelists to instruct humans.
WHAT words in the bible were written by Jesus' own hand? None! Nothing was written contemporaneously; well that's highly unlikely but nothing survived the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.
EVERY word you think you are following, was not written by Jesus, but by his followers. It is all second hand. That's pretty good, but you seem to place excessive faith in words written 70 to 100 years after Christ's birth.
Finally, Jesus preached for about 3 years. Do you really think that everything you need to know and do, he conveyed in those 3 years? Where does Jesus authorize you to be using a computer?
@@thomasmaughan4798 I really must ask this, what is your denomination?
@@ifiok-dan7926 "I really must ask this..."
and I really must answer! Ought to have been obvious on this channel; anyone NOT piling on the hatred of Mormons is doubtless one 🙂The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
My father was an atheist, my mother a polytheist (two decks of tarot cards for twice the good luck). So as a young adult I experienced the first conspicuous miracle in my life and discovered this church which has easy and simple answers to things most Christians consider unanswerable mysteries (and seem to prefer it that way; which is okay, their choice to make).
@@thomasmaughan4798 you have made your choice and so have others.
Those who are hated by others for the sake of Jesus Christ, know that they ought to rejoice.
The Potential of man is not static,…..with this teaching there’s no where to go after death as limited views abound. Titus teaches, Paul teaches, and as did Moses, as God created Man and Woman in their image, settles an aged old question of the Trinity, being birthed and the miracles that proceeded from that time. A restoration of all things, including the priesthood. If we’re so wrong then everyone is wrong except the Catholic’s, bc they’re nearer to the authority than anyone else, but this wouldn’t explain the apostasy or the dark ages of man’s inclination for power and deceit. The comes a 14 yo, who says what he said I he saw,…..two personages, distinct from each other and one introducing the other, ‘This is my beloved Son!” At that moment Joseph knew more about the Godhood than anyone on the planet. Learning of Joseph’s life and the hardships he and others endured has to be given some credibility as to its authenticity. I’m not a Mormon, I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and bear record that this is the Lord’s church upon the face of the earth.
During one Bible study, my Pastor had put up a Venn diagram showing the concept of the *_"Communion of Saints"..._*
_(Basically, every member of the Saved/Universal Christian Church..._ _both alive on Earth, and with the Triune One in Heaven.)_
And he had added some various whiteboard marker circles, at various places in & around this primary circle for those still alive on Earth.
Most of these circles had *_parts outside_* the Church, *representing* those *faux Christians* who might seem like Christians to others... but *_really reject Jesus Christ's Salvation_* and/or Authority in their Hearts. _(The smaller circles being Denominations, or various individual congregations._ _West Borough Baptist Church, being one with only a few true Christians, for example.)_
The relevant part, is when he starts asking us where we might place various other religions.
And we're at the point where even Atheists get listed as having those who secretly have Faith... when he asks us what might fit into the Venn circle that isn't even touching the Church one...
One of us Suggested Islam/Muslims. He draws another circle that actually has more inside the Church circle, then the West B. Baptist one. Says that at least Islam teaches One God, and how Jesus Christ repeatedly show's the way for individual muslims who might not know a whole lot... yet still trust Jesus Christ's Salvation.
Mormonism, on the other hand... actively teaches to reject Grace, and various Biblical Teachings.
I’m a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Some people say Mormon. I have so much Love for people of all Faith. We are all trying to get back to Christ. But to not be called a Christian is hurtful and simply wrong! Jesus Christ who died on the cross and atoned for my sins, as he did yours, is the same Jesus we worship. Now, we believe he has a Father. We pray to the Father in Jesus name. There are countless instances in the Bible, which we believe to be the word of God, we use the King James Version, in which Christ speaks to his Father. “Father if it’s possible let this cup pass from me” was he praying to himself? There are so many other instances like that. Regardless…being hated, made fun of, and persecuted is nothing new to us. I love my Savior! I can’t wait for the second coming, it is by his grace that I am saved but I will do many wonderful works of service and acts of kindness and charity because by so doing I am trying to please him and be a devoted servant to him. If you say I’m NOT Christian. I stand to correct you. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and his teachings. What’s more Christian than that? I love all of those folks in that room but fear you spread misinformation when you say we are not Christian. My 4 kids obey the commandments, never miss a Sunday at Church, pay tithing, don’t drink, don’t smoke, obey the law of chastity, don’t use foul language, and have such sweet spirits. Yet will you say they are not Christian? My dear friends we are Christians!
Was Pollyanna a polytheist?