If i ever stop practising on my own (which i have been for a few years now) and get a teacher, i sure hope he's like you. I get easily hung up on technicality and lose motivation when I get stuck for longer periods, but this way gets through the piece while still retaining the crucial information on how it "should" sound as you move through. Truly inspiring. Thank you! Now, I realise there is only one Boris Giltburg in this world but one can dream haha - I just love how he expresses the music with words.
Very interesting to hear Boris speak about the piece. Great advice to learn the 'start' point and 'finish' point of the glissandos. This advice can be applied to many 'difficult' sections, which is to learn the extremes, the key chords of the passage, and map the important markers without all the flash. Then your hands and body already recognise their position, and you can later fill in the gaps. Also great that we have a superb modern pianist actually taking time to teach people in an open video, which was never undertaken by any of the previous generations. Kudos to him for posting this.
Played this in my early 20s and now it is seems impossible as does most- at 65 yrs everything is a complete challenge which escapes my ability and patience
Thank you!! Your sharing is so precious. Some of the techniques and experience I have never even heard about them. French composer has the hardest work!
Having performed this many times on many different pianos throughout the years, I can tell you that the success of the glissandi and the repeated notes all depend on the easiness or sluggishness of the action ( and also a bit on having a good technician present ). Especially if you're wanting to play the repeated notes softly and quickly at the same time, as many of them are marked to be played in this score. An additional problem with the glissandi is the smoothness, or lack thereof, of the surface of the keys. I had the misfortune once to play on a beautifully restored 1893 model A Steinway that has the original ivory keys. The ivory was very hard to slide/glide over. In fact, when just playing with only the fingertips in any other passage, you can feel the slightly rough, dry ivory sticking to your fingers, and can even hear a squeaking sound as you pull your finger from the key. The front and side edges of the white keys were also quite thin, and therefore somewhat sharp. A single note glissando was doable, but only if the hand was held just so, and if the pianist has an ample fingernail. Dipping even slightly too low caused cuts in the cuticles from those edges. So you can imagine what a double note glissando was like. And yes, as has been mentioned below, measure 210 should be A# on the grace note just before the second note of the final quarter note duple of that bar, and additionally, in measure 212, the final descending diminished arpeggio begins on the F# grace note, not the A above it as is played in this video. But still, many good ideas presented here!
Great video! Technically, the first and third parts of the piece are extraordinarily difficult, but the middle part is very strange musically, I wish you could tell us more about it!!!
To me, the middle is the song, the alborado. It is emotional and pleading. if Ravel wasn't just playing with words and sounds in his titles, as he often did, the morning song of the jester is coming from the bottom rank of a royal household, for whom he must gear up and perform to, every day. The beginning and end are the pageantry outside his door, which he triumphs over again for that day. Maurice maybe had no such idea in its composition, but this was always my experience of this.
The middle is, in fact, the alborada (or "a song of lovers parting in the morning") and the Gracioso is accompanying himself with Spanish guitar strums (:
You are one great teacher; a pleasure to watch and listen too! It is not always easy to articulate technique and intent as well as you do...kudos and bravo to you.
If Boris tells you not to practice it with slow tempo, cold hands etc, he really knows what he took himeself into before coming to that conclusion. He looks like a practice experimentalist
Whenever I practice these sorts of glissandi, I have a special pair of cotton gloves. It greatly reduces friction, and enables a pianist who may be totally unfamiliar with double glissandi, to practice them, without stressing out the action of the piano, or tearing the skin off your fingers. Thin cotton gloves;)
ı think the reason he wrote the glissandi with 2-4- fingering is because you are suppose to play with your hand inverted. your palm looking up, back of the hand looking down at the piano
@@wuwupiano Nope, the nails. Both Ravel’s fingering and the one in the video are effective, Giltburg’s alternate approach feels like you have more control though since it’s more ergonomic. But it definitely can rip up the side of your 4th finger on the descent if you’re not careful, and depending on the piano.
@@wuwupiano What worked best for me is to play palms up (supinated) on the ascent, but with fingers 3 and 2 (on the A and D respectively). I used 3 instead of 4 because it's a stronger finger; but with my palm raised higher than my fingers (almost like reaching into an oven with an oven mitt), to make the stretch between 2nd and 3rd fingers more comfortable. Then flipping my hand over to normal (pronated) position for the descent, on fingers 1 and 3. Any resulting "gap" between the ascent and descent really isn't audible. If I tried to ascend on 1 and 4 in a normal pronated position I would totally tear up my skin. Same approach for the glissandos in thirds. But everyone has to experiment here and find what works best for them.
I would like to play for you .. I m playing it, where do you teach? Is this piano best play repetitions? And why, having harder time playing on Steinway
There are workarounds to that: add pedal and play the lower part with the left hand most of the time. It wouldn't work to add a fingering here, but I think you can figure it out.
Just sightread this last night. Great piece! I've played Gaspard de la nuit probably a 1000 times & on my very 1st concert program so I intend to claim this as well. I'm poised to pounce. Been playing Petroushka & Islamey non-stop for over 2 years w Gaspard...... it seems to make everything else easier by comparison. I just finished the 12 Liszt Transcendental Etudes coz I played the 27 Chopin Etudes everyday for 3 years! ( it occurs me, I may be extreme!!)
the notes in bar 179 do NOT equal a true glissando as several of the chords are left out of the scale for example bd, eg, ac... bar 180 IS in fact a true glissando
This piece is obviously geared towards very advanced students, but does tonebase have enough material for someone like myself who is in the ABRSM grade 5ish realm? If there are just a few classes and it isn't a focus of the platform, it probably doesn't make sense for me. Any thoughts from Tonebase users? One other thing is that I took lessons between 11-16 and worked on my own from time to time since then (I'm 38, right now). I'd be curious to learn what is the best way to structure one's practice.
I'd recommend watching as many videos from Edna Golandsky as possible and to get familiar with the Taubman approach. Never in my life have I improved as much in 2 months as when I discovered it. I went from struggling with the Alborada to racing through La Campanella lol
I had to go to the hospital after practicing those glissandi... well, ok, not the hospital exactly... more of a... um, what are they called again?.. oh yeah, a nail salon. I Had them coat my cuticles and nails with liquid steel which, once cooled, prevented any further accidents...
I actually studied some performances slow motion on RUclips (especially that of Vitaly Pisarenko) and experimented. Because of this, I did actually practice the glissandi relatively often - stopping when things got too painful and never without a day's rest in between. (I don't remember if I really rested, but it was my intention.) It worked. Basically like any other glissando, you want your fingernails facing the keys. So perpendicular to the key and sideways to exactly face the next keys. I actually did use the 2-4 and then on the way down 1-3, and I played all the glissandi this way. Like all movement at the piano: study your teacher's approach/another performer or author's approach, and try to find your own most natural movement for the task. If you resolve to solve the issue no matter what, and you have the rest of the technical capacity to play the piece, a piece should almost always be possible. -graduated master's with this piece, among others
Take a lead out of Zhdanov’s lessons, he’s able to slow down a little and show his hand playing from above whilst illustrating at a level all levels of interest can understand. This video is stereotypical and grandiose virtuoso pianist that can no longer relate to anyone unless high intermediate to advance. I learnt a little but nowhere as much had this been taught by someone that can teach for all lessons. Is why certain pianist attract all levels whilst others attract just elitist or well advanced even high intermediates. You must always show the hand playing from above because side view angles does nothing! A greatly missed opportunity.
There's just too much happening in the score to explain to other levels without making this video extremely long and boring for the level it's meant for. A lot of the intended audience would click off the video if it were like you described. The videos taken from above look kind of weird imo
For pianists with sensitive skin it is the best advice. Once you practice glissando it can torn the skin and you can get too sore and not doing it well during performance. When I have glissandos I practice them once a week and never in the day before of the performance. So this advice makes perfectly sense.
What an intriguing piece, presented with charms and energy, and so vitally performed. Bravo!
If i ever stop practising on my own (which i have been for a few years now) and get a teacher, i sure hope he's like you. I get easily hung up on technicality and lose motivation when I get stuck for longer periods, but this way gets through the piece while still retaining the crucial information on how it "should" sound as you move through. Truly inspiring. Thank you!
Now, I realise there is only one Boris Giltburg in this world but one can dream haha - I just love how he expresses the music with words.
Very interesting to hear Boris speak about the piece. Great advice to learn the 'start' point and 'finish' point of the glissandos. This advice can be applied to many 'difficult' sections, which is to learn the extremes, the key chords of the passage, and map the important markers without all the flash. Then your hands and body already recognise their position, and you can later fill in the gaps. Also great that we have a superb modern pianist actually taking time to teach people in an open video, which was never undertaken by any of the previous generations. Kudos to him for posting this.
What an amazing and generous pianist!!!
I’m decades away from being able to even approach this piece, but still fun to learn and listen to this charming man
This presentation was AMAZING! Wow
Great video and content ! It's great to hear this quality on YT :)
A real pleasure to watch, even though I'll never be able to play this I really like such deconstructions! Thank you!
Thank you. I will surely never even try to abuse this fantastic piece but this video helps me to embrace its complexity.
I played this on one of my undergraduate recitals. All of this advice is 100% spot on.
Excellent presentation and demonstration. Well done! Thank you!
Great video I was just listening to Boris Giltburg playing Rachmaninoff.
Professional approach 👌🎶
What a brilliant performance by a brilliant performer 👏👏👏
I love his attitude and enthusiasm! What an amazing song!
Played this in my early 20s and now it is seems impossible as does most- at 65 yrs everything is a complete challenge which escapes my ability and patience
I’m sorry my friend… the old enemy age waits to rob us all. Honestly amazing you ever managed to play this monster
I get you! I am 70 and working to recapture my earlier skills!
Thank you!! Your sharing is so precious. Some of the techniques and experience I have never even heard about them. French composer has the hardest work!
Having performed this many times on many different pianos throughout the years, I can tell you that the success of the glissandi and the repeated notes all depend on the easiness or sluggishness of the action ( and also a bit on having a good technician present ). Especially if you're wanting to play the repeated notes softly and quickly at the same time, as many of them are marked to be played in this score. An additional problem with the glissandi is the smoothness, or lack thereof, of the surface of the keys. I had the misfortune once to play on a beautifully restored 1893 model A Steinway that has the original ivory keys. The ivory was very hard to slide/glide over. In fact, when just playing with only the fingertips in any other passage, you can feel the slightly rough, dry ivory sticking to your fingers, and can even hear a squeaking sound as you pull your finger from the key. The front and side edges of the white keys were also quite thin, and therefore somewhat sharp. A single note glissando was doable, but only if the hand was held just so, and if the pianist has an ample fingernail. Dipping even slightly too low caused cuts in the cuticles from those edges. So you can imagine what a double note glissando was like.
And yes, as has been mentioned below, measure 210 should be A# on the grace note just before the second note of the final quarter note duple of that bar, and additionally, in measure 212, the final descending diminished arpeggio begins on the F# grace note, not the A above it as is played in this video.
But still, many good ideas presented here!
All depends on the piano and action I agree
Great video! Technically, the first and third parts of the piece are extraordinarily difficult, but the middle part is very strange musically, I wish you could tell us more about it!!!
To me, the middle is the song, the alborado. It is emotional and pleading. if Ravel wasn't just playing with words and sounds in his titles, as he often did, the morning song of the jester is coming from the bottom rank of a royal household, for whom he must gear up and perform to, every day. The beginning and end are the pageantry outside his door, which he triumphs over again for that day. Maurice maybe had no such idea in its composition, but this was always my experience of this.
The middle is, in fact, the alborada (or "a song of lovers parting in the morning") and the Gracioso is accompanying himself with Spanish guitar strums (:
Dearest!!! You are amazing!!!! Thank's very much indeed !! Abrazos desde Brazil⚘
You are one great teacher; a pleasure to watch and listen too! It is not always easy to articulate technique and intent as well as you do...kudos and bravo to you.
Ling Lings would not appreciate you saying not to practice it :) Thanks for the video!
real ling lings keep practicing through the burning skin
this piece kicked my butt in my 20s!!
Great piano teacher& pianist of our time:)
i was patiently waiting for a good tutorial, wow, got one from the master, I love his Carnaval and Rach.
Great! Thanks for breaking it down!
Very useful tips thank you
Fantastic pianist!!!!
Harpist here - this is fascinating!!
Wonderful!
I only discovered him a year or two ago. I think he's sensational.
As an amateur, no idea why I wasn’t subscribed to this channel before
Bravo!!!
I started to love this piece because of him Thank you!!
If Boris tells you not to practice it with slow tempo, cold hands etc, he really knows what he took himeself into before coming to that conclusion. He looks like a practice experimentalist
Love your lesson. U cover everything.
This is exactly how I used to practice and play it many years ago at high school . It works but a good light action is needed on the instrument
Great ! 🙌
Thank you.
Well done.
YOU AFE A FABULOUS MUSICIAN. and a pianist
❤❤❤❤ thanks a lot
Pretty interesting! Bravo 👏🏿
Excellent!
Every word worth attending to.
12:20 this is insane advice
Whenever I practice these sorts of glissandi, I have a special pair of cotton gloves. It greatly reduces friction, and enables a pianist who may be totally unfamiliar with double glissandi, to practice them, without stressing out the action of the piano, or tearing the skin off your fingers. Thin cotton gloves;)
After you get the hang of it with the gloves, then for the performance you just "go for it" and have faith it will work;)
Thanks Boris! So helpful! Now have you done one for "Une Barque sur l'Ocean"?
Very detailed and instructive video, is it possible to fix all the typos in the presented score?
I usually play those glissandos with my hand inverted like I was spiderman. Works for me!
Ok you need to post a video of this!!
Dear Boris Giltburg,
The A natural appoggiatura in m. 210 should be an A sharp (:
You're not only an incredible pianist but an excellent teacher. Do you teach privately online?
I can't play this piece, but I love to practice double note glissandi for fun. I didn't know you weren't supposed to lol.
ı think the reason he wrote the glissandi with 2-4- fingering is because you are suppose to play with your hand inverted. your palm looking up, back of the hand looking down at the piano
So the middle joint of the finger is the part that makes contact with the keys?
@@wuwupiano Nope, the nails. Both Ravel’s fingering and the one in the video are effective, Giltburg’s alternate approach feels like you have more control though since it’s more ergonomic. But it definitely can rip up the side of your 4th finger on the descent if you’re not careful, and depending on the piano.
@@tyler5545 Not sure how anyone could bend their wrist back far enough for this approach!
@@wuwupiano What worked best for me is to play palms up (supinated) on the ascent, but with fingers 3 and 2 (on the A and D respectively). I used 3 instead of 4 because it's a stronger finger; but with my palm raised higher than my fingers (almost like reaching into an oven with an oven mitt), to make the stretch between 2nd and 3rd fingers more comfortable. Then flipping my hand over to normal (pronated) position for the descent, on fingers 1 and 3. Any resulting "gap" between the ascent and descent really isn't audible. If I tried to ascend on 1 and 4 in a normal pronated position I would totally tear up my skin. Same approach for the glissandos in thirds. But everyone has to experiment here and find what works best for them.
Thank you so much for this video! Do you have any advice on how to adjust to pianos with slower or inconsistent key repetition?
OMG that's a difficult piece !!!
I would like to play for you .. I m playing it, where do you teach? Is this piano best play repetitions? And why, having harder time playing on Steinway
It can be played 2-4, but with remark that 4 will be at lower note and 2 at higher. Look how Richter deal with this place and what fingers he use
How about the octave glissando in the coda section of the finale of Beethoven's Waldstein Sonata?
It's not in English, but check out this video of Zimmerman teaching that section. It helped me a lot: ruclips.net/video/VgLQwHR5BFo/видео.html
There are workarounds to that: add pedal and play the lower part with the left hand most of the time.
It wouldn't work to add a fingering here, but I think you can figure it out.
@@wolfsurvival2009 Thank you very much!
how to play double glissandi:
step 1 - have a fazioli
Just sightread this last night. Great piece!
I've played Gaspard de la nuit probably a 1000 times & on my very 1st concert program so I intend to claim this as well. I'm poised to pounce. Been playing Petroushka & Islamey non-stop for over 2 years w Gaspard...... it seems to make everything else easier by comparison. I just finished the 12 Liszt Transcendental Etudes coz I played the 27 Chopin Etudes everyday for 3 years!
( it occurs me, I may be extreme!!)
the notes in bar 179 do NOT equal a true glissando as several of the chords are left out of the scale for example bd, eg, ac...
bar 180 IS in fact a true glissando
This piece is obviously geared towards very advanced students, but does tonebase have enough material for someone like myself who is in the ABRSM grade 5ish realm? If there are just a few classes and it isn't a focus of the platform, it probably doesn't make sense for me. Any thoughts from Tonebase users? One other thing is that I took lessons between 11-16 and worked on my own from time to time since then (I'm 38, right now). I'd be curious to learn what is the best way to structure one's practice.
I'd recommend watching as many videos from Edna Golandsky as possible and to get familiar with the Taubman approach. Never in my life have I improved as much in 2 months as when I discovered it. I went from struggling with the Alborada to racing through La Campanella lol
11 days later and Tonebase uploaded their first Taubman video (go watch it!!!). Coincidence? :)
Great video, but health & safety warnings should be added to the score of this piece!
Well, practicing glissendi also thickens the skin !
I had to go to the hospital after practicing those glissandi... well, ok, not the hospital exactly... more of a... um, what are they called again?.. oh yeah, a nail salon. I Had them coat my cuticles and nails with liquid steel which, once cooled, prevented any further accidents...
A#
Gilburg variations
🌹🙏🌹
And I was hoping to be let into a special secret about how to play that gliss.😭
I actually studied some performances slow motion on RUclips (especially that of Vitaly Pisarenko) and experimented. Because of this, I did actually practice the glissandi relatively often - stopping when things got too painful and never without a day's rest in between. (I don't remember if I really rested, but it was my intention.) It worked.
Basically like any other glissando, you want your fingernails facing the keys. So perpendicular to the key and sideways to exactly face the next keys. I actually did use the 2-4 and then on the way down 1-3, and I played all the glissandi this way. Like all movement at the piano: study your teacher's approach/another performer or author's approach, and try to find your own most natural movement for the task. If you resolve to solve the issue no matter what, and you have the rest of the technical capacity to play the piece, a piece should almost always be possible.
-graduated master's with this piece, among others
Has anyone ever played it better than Dinu Lipatti?
richter
Yes
No, is that even a question !?
Meh. How hard could it be?....
Free Palestine 🇵🇸 ✨️ 💙
Take a lead out of Zhdanov’s lessons, he’s able to slow down a little and show his hand playing from above whilst illustrating at a level all levels of interest can understand. This video is stereotypical and grandiose virtuoso pianist that can no longer relate to anyone unless high intermediate to advance. I learnt a little but nowhere as much had this been taught by someone that can teach for all lessons. Is why certain pianist attract all levels whilst others attract just elitist or well advanced even high intermediates. You must always show the hand playing from above because side view angles does nothing! A greatly missed opportunity.
Interesting comment. I’m curious what brought you to this video and what you were hoping to get out of it.
There's just too much happening in the score to explain to other levels without making this video extremely long and boring for the level it's meant for. A lot of the intended audience would click off the video if it were like you described.
The videos taken from above look kind of weird imo
Doesn't actually sound very good. The hiccup between the upward and the downward gliss is bad and obvious
"Don't practice it" probably the dumbest tip you can give lol
But he's right.
Or have someone vacuuming the practice room while you're working on it... (GG)
@@TomCheer9 True😩
He’s probably aiming the advice for more advanced students with a well-rounded technique
For pianists with sensitive skin it is the best advice. Once you practice glissando it can torn the skin and you can get too sore and not doing it well during performance.
When I have glissandos I practice them once a week and never in the day before of the performance. So this advice makes perfectly sense.