From Australia, just back from Norway (Jul23) where we rented a ID3 from Hertz. Your video brought back memories. Standing at the brand new Eviny charging station with 20 chargers and not being able to get the app to work as it would not send the SMS to an Australian phone number. Plugging in the car to find the car and the charger would not talk to each other. Driving up the mountain and watching the range suddenly drop. Luckly we got the MER App to work and the Elton App worked at Recharge. Also Hertz must have taken one or you suggestions on board. When we picked up the car I asked "what is full for an EV", they said over 75%. But at the end of the Day, did I enjoy driving an EV around Norway, loved it, loved it. Now would I do it in Australia...??
I just rented out a VW ID4 or similar from Hertz in Ålesund. That is what I end up with. Thank you for the video. Have all the apps installed and hoping for a care free trip 🤞
If someone calm like you wants to swear in frustration there is no chance for us.. I think you took on a real challenge on those roads and dealing with EV issues in a foreign language country... Rental cars are always a pain so an EV one in Norway and freezing conditions was a big ask.. Well done both of you..
Public chargers in Norway are quite confusing unless you've researched them in advance. Recharge for example is primarily just a charger network; while you can now pay directly using them this has not always been the case. Recharge is quite the open network where you can use numerous other apps or services to pay/use the charger. This is of course not easily explained at the charger. Out of all the apps, Elton is by far one of the apps that include the most chargers. Apart from the odd charger here and there and Tesla superchargers they seem to support them all. Drop-in charging is a real pain point in Norway, most charger networks love the whole "pay with an app" or rfid-tag. However, new laws were recently passed so that all newly ordered charging stations required a card reader so hopefully it will become as easy as just tapping your card in the future.
The concept with Recharge was fine when using the qr code. Indeed that was the most reliable charger once I figured out that it was the car that was misbehaving. But as your say their website is unclear. I reviewed the Elton app, and I found that prices for my hotel charger were more than double the price charged by Recharge. The eon charger was even more outrageous on the Elton app. The Eviny charger I don’t think was on the Elton app at all, so I would have still been stranded at Lyngseidet if they weren’t so cooperative. Contrast all that with my petrol hire cars. I’ve filled up in Germany, Norway and Canada. The experience is almost the same in all places, you have a familiar payment method, and there’s no need to switch on (expensive) data roaming on my phone. There’s now draft legislation in the uk requiring all new AC chargers above 8kw and all existing DC chargers to be retrofitted with card readers. Sounds very similar to the Norwegian legislation. Hopefully it will massively improve the user experience and accessibility.
I know there are som rentals in Norway, where you can rent a Tesla and use the app, but I believe they are long term rentals (not just days, but several weeks). I totally agree with the Tsla experience being better with the app, however I don't think just using keycard is too bad either. I think its more like the app giving an improved experience, and not like no app giving a bad experienc
I had booked the same car when I go there in August. This video is just a blessing! Thanks a lot. I will absolutely get a hybrid and not a pure Electric. Thanks a lot.
I think the main issue for you was not having downloaded and prepared all needed aps before arriving in Norway. Have done several European trips with EVs and that is the only solution that works. Being absolutely prepared! Tesla supercharger worked for you because you already had a user with the right credentials. It is just as easy with the other charging brands as long as you also there have the app with you credentials. :)
If we take the Eviny (and Circle K) chargers for example: I tried registering my account when I was back home. The registration attempt still failed. Those chargers are available exclusively only to Scandinavian telephone numbers.
There are thousands who have no problems at all with the software of the IDs, me included. It's not the car's fault if you don't press the obviously highlighted button on the left. And it was your own car, you had customized the shortcut buttons for sure to get quick to the radio.
The button on the left did not say “nav”, “radio” or anything else obvious. It was just a small vw icon. That doesn’t say anything. It’s certainly not obvious what it did. Now I eventually figured it out, and then it was easy. But Sandy Munro once said something along the lines of: “All cars should be designed for people who are in a hurry, and are renting them at the airport for the first time”. Now by that measure, I had to dig the google maps out of my phone and use that instead. Now compare that to my old mk7 golf. Nice physical buttons, with single words making it obvious what each function was. That’s an example of good design. Conversely while my Tesla is a great car to own, it’s a terrible car to rent simply because the learning curve is far too high for someone at the airport who’s never driven one before. I knew what to do with mine simple because I read the instructions before taking ownership. Renters don’t have that level of time or patience. My most recent rental experience was a Toyota Corolla out of an airport. It was perfectly standard stuff, and within 2-3 minutes I had everything setup as I wished it, including the radio, without having to dive into the manuals. (Figuring out the fuel cap later on though was a trial admittedly).
@@anthonydyer3939 I just found it kind of strange you did not even try that VW-button in the video. But you're right. I prefer physical buttons too. VW design was getting worse. I tried Model 3 two times, but wipers and glove box over the screen? No, thanks. The Kia EV6 or new E-Niro did it better imo with the shared button for climate and radio stuff. We still have our first EV, an Ioniq eletric. Physical button for everything. This car is so easy to operate. Still love it.
I really don´t understand why the chargers are not as a gas pump where you just swipe the card and charge. I Have rented electrics in Spain, Portugal and Italy. All are very very hard to use. I don´t recommend.
i rented a model 3 LR in Norway last summer, went Oslo to Bergen Return, AC charged (for free) overnight in car park in Bergen , parking cost 20 euro approx , it was perfect. but the Range of the LR is superb compared to the ID3. winter might have been worse, but the superchargers would have helped big time. i didnt have access to the tesla app , just the card
Model 3 will have a better range but only by virtue of having a bigger battery. In terms of wh/mile, my model 3 would be in the same ballpark as the id3 for those temperatures. There's no doubt that cold temperatures really are toilsome for today's NMC battery chemistries.
Would the experience be any better renting an EV in the UK. And if you have a non-UK mobile? Isn't the charging infrastructure here equally fragmented?
I’d say it would be much worse. The foundation of any ev renting experience has to be hotel charging. I wouldn’t have rented an ev in Norway if the hotel didn’t have charging available. I’ve seen precious few hotels offering chargers in the uk. And as far as charging infrastructure is concerned, it’s far less developed. There’s more 100kw+ chargers without an hours drive of Tromso than there are near Aberdeen, and Aberdeen is a far bigger city than Tromso. That said, renting a cottage is easy with an EV. Just bring a normal 3 pin plug and your’re sorted. Right now out of Aberdeen airport, none of the hire car companies offer EVs. Rather perversely, it’s far more expensive to rent a car in Aberdeen now than the same size car in Tromso. It used to be the other way round.
I’m used to wrong side driving. It’s other rules that can catch me out. Yielding to cars entering from the right is not a hardwired action for me. Having to dynamite my brakes for suicide pedestrians who pop out behind a wall and walk straight onto a pedestrian crossing without so much as waiting for drivers to slow down is common place too. All told the yielding to pedestrians does certainly create abrupt driving styles, and it’s not just me.
@@anthonydyer3939 ..ha, i often end up on the wrong side of the road driving in the snow! As a pedestrian / cyclist in Norway it is almost embarrassing how the drivers give way. Norway is the best place I have cycled with regards to considerate drivers.
Indeed, all over, the difference between Tesla and the other EV auto makers is beyond. Tesla just works, yet with the usual auto makers there are a lot of issues…. and Biden instead of helping Tesla become wider is fighting it…. interest before the planet, quality of life of citizens and other positive issues….. well done for Norway.
The hire company have to get their money back somehow because it will be worth bugger all when they try to sell it on. But what if you don't have one of those ridiculous not so Smart phones? I'll stick with my reliable diesel Defender thanks.
I think the hire car company would get even more money back if the experience of renting an ev wasn’t so dire. I don’t know how high or low their utilisation rate for their cars are, but that would be the first point of focus for getting the most money out of a vehicle, not the service fees for a few seconds of time taken to plug it in.
From what I can see, the difference between an EV and an ICE rental vehicle is with the EV you are essentially planning your vacation around charging your car. With an ICE vehicle you go wherever you want to go, whenever you want to go and can easily refuel when low on petrol.
For EV renters, you’re right. Renting an EV is very much a pioneering endeavour. But owning an EV is easier simply because you are also investing in home charging. In time, I think all hotels that already offer parking will also offer 7kw charging in abundance (but with outrageous pricing for big brand hotels). At that point planning a vacation/ business trip with an EV becomes as easy as looking for a hotel with wifi included.
I think you are being deliberately obtuse about the ID.3. "locations" are clearly not a map. The charging speed at low temps is much lower than the headline speed which is tested at 25C, this is basic physics and will be the same in a Tesla unless navigating to a SuperCharger (pre-heat). Watch a few Bjorn Nyland videos for charging in the cold in Norway. Your problems charging at non-Tesla locations would be the same no matter what vehicle you are in, including a Tesla. With regards the software, your car is on an older version of the ID software, after 3.1 charging kW is displayed and battery % is in the dash display. BTW what is your Tesla's range in Norwegian temperatures? Not the numbers you state in your round up! Come on, compare apples with apples! I think Hertz probably did not give the customer a good experience by not providing a means to charge in the local area. (your idea on RFID cards is a good one) I feel you are being disingenuous about the actual state of a non-Tesla vehicle. Shame, I have found some of your videos very informative but unlikely to watch any more. (Yes I own an ID.4 🙂)
Yes, the Model 3 range is reduced a lot at minus 8 degrees, but it's still a decent range. I still have enough charge to get to/from Inverness with plenty of spare charge once I returning home. Regarding the user interface: I say what I see. It's a first impression and it's measured against the experience I had with the Mk 7 VW Golf that I had before. The basics of having a map and a radio available were not instantly obvious as they were on earlier VW's. You're right about charging speed, but again: The battery was slowly warming up, as evidenced by the slowly increasing regen capacity as I was driving, so it's it's ability to take charge despite the cold weather should have been improved.
Winter tyres are mandatory certainly. But studless winter tyres are certainly legal elsewhere in Norway. I haven’t heard of studded tyres being mandatory in particular localities.
I don’t know how much contactless readers cost, but I imagine it would be a minor cost compared to the overall charger assembly and installation cost. The recharge branded charger was closest to any easy payment experience, but such a shame the plugging in procedure was the wrong way round. But qr codes are insecure. It’s not hard to insert Rick Astley into charging attempts! There have been instances of ionity qr codes being replaced with fake phishing codes in the uk.
Headache coming on, find a charger find a charger find a charger, time and money, and Norway a terrible land for travel, Tolls and tolls and unfare subsides for electric cars, no free markets there, lived in Norway and Scandinavia for 30 years
The road tolls would certainly be a headache to suffer on a daily basis, but I’d contend that electric cars aren’t subsidised over there. They just aren’t taxed to the same extent as petrol cars. A lower tax isn’t a subsidy, it just feels like one. But you’re right: Travel isn’t cheap. That said, check out the hire car prices in Aberdeen airport. It’s nearly double the Tromso rates. The thing that gets me over there is the cost of food. 50kr for an 800gram loaf of bread!
@@anthonydyer3939i was in Tromso this summer (on bike), the choice of excellent bread at most supermarkets was amazing, yes a bit more than UK, but not that much. I was camping, cost about £12 a day on food.
I’ve been in Norway last year and didn’t had any issues because I used Elli that had accessed to the entire Norway charging providers.
This is basically why we decided to drive to Norway from the UK in our own Model 3 - although granted we only went as far North as Bergen.
well done….that is the way to go.
From Australia, just back from Norway (Jul23) where we rented a ID3 from Hertz. Your video brought back memories. Standing at the brand new Eviny charging station with 20 chargers and not being able to get the app to work as it would not send the SMS to an Australian phone number. Plugging in the car to find the car and the charger would not talk to each other. Driving up the mountain and watching the range suddenly drop. Luckly we got the MER App to work and the Elton App worked at Recharge. Also Hertz must have taken one or you suggestions on board. When we picked up the car I asked "what is full for an EV", they said over 75%. But at the end of the Day, did I enjoy driving an EV around Norway, loved it, loved it. Now would I do it in Australia...??
I just rented out a VW ID4 or similar from Hertz in Ålesund. That is what I end up with. Thank you for the video. Have all the apps installed and hoping for a care free trip 🤞
How was it?
@@naseelbasheer1783 overall good. Charged at the places I slept and used mainly the Tesla Supercharger network.
If someone calm like you wants to swear in frustration there is no chance for us.. I think you took on a real challenge on those roads and dealing with EV issues in a foreign language country...
Rental cars are always a pain so an EV one in Norway and freezing conditions was a big ask..
Well done both of you..
Public chargers in Norway are quite confusing unless you've researched them in advance. Recharge for example is primarily just a charger network; while you can now pay directly using them this has not always been the case. Recharge is quite the open network where you can use numerous other apps or services to pay/use the charger. This is of course not easily explained at the charger.
Out of all the apps, Elton is by far one of the apps that include the most chargers. Apart from the odd charger here and there and Tesla superchargers they seem to support them all.
Drop-in charging is a real pain point in Norway, most charger networks love the whole "pay with an app" or rfid-tag. However, new laws were recently passed so that all newly ordered charging stations required a card reader so hopefully it will become as easy as just tapping your card in the future.
The concept with Recharge was fine when using the qr code. Indeed that was the most reliable charger once I figured out that it was the car that was misbehaving. But as your say their website is unclear. I reviewed the Elton app, and I found that prices for my hotel charger were more than double the price charged by Recharge. The eon charger was even more outrageous on the Elton app. The Eviny charger I don’t think was on the Elton app at all, so I would have still been stranded at Lyngseidet if they weren’t so cooperative.
Contrast all that with my petrol hire cars. I’ve filled up in Germany, Norway and Canada. The experience is almost the same in all places, you have a familiar payment method, and there’s no need to switch on (expensive) data roaming on my phone.
There’s now draft legislation in the uk requiring all new AC chargers above 8kw and all existing DC chargers to be retrofitted with card readers. Sounds very similar to the Norwegian legislation. Hopefully it will massively improve the user experience and accessibility.
I know there are som rentals in Norway, where you can rent a Tesla and use the app, but I believe they are long term rentals (not just days, but several weeks).
I totally agree with the Tsla experience being better with the app, however I don't think just using keycard is too bad either.
I think its more like the app giving an improved experience, and not like no app giving a bad experienc
I had booked the same car when I go there in August. This video is just a blessing! Thanks a lot. I will absolutely get a hybrid and not a pure Electric. Thanks a lot.
get a Tesla
Or go for a better EV I suppose
I think the main issue for you was not having downloaded and prepared all needed aps before arriving in Norway. Have done several European trips with EVs and that is the only solution that works. Being absolutely prepared! Tesla supercharger worked for you because you already had a user with the right credentials. It is just as easy with the other charging brands as long as you also there have the app with you credentials. :)
If we take the Eviny (and Circle K) chargers for example: I tried registering my account when I was back home. The registration attempt still failed. Those chargers are available exclusively only to Scandinavian telephone numbers.
To me I just stick to normal ICE Car when I drive in a foreign country.. its so easy and straightforward! :)
There are thousands who have no problems at all with the software of the IDs, me included. It's not the car's fault if you don't press the obviously highlighted button on the left. And it was your own car, you had customized the shortcut buttons for sure to get quick to the radio.
The button on the left did not say “nav”, “radio” or anything else obvious. It was just a small vw icon. That doesn’t say anything. It’s certainly not obvious what it did. Now I eventually figured it out, and then it was easy. But Sandy Munro once said something along the lines of: “All cars should be designed for people who are in a hurry, and are renting them at the airport for the first time”. Now by that measure, I had to dig the google maps out of my phone and use that instead.
Now compare that to my old mk7 golf. Nice physical buttons, with single words making it obvious what each function was. That’s an example of good design.
Conversely while my Tesla is a great car to own, it’s a terrible car to rent simply because the learning curve is far too high for someone at the airport who’s never driven one before. I knew what to do with mine simple because I read the instructions before taking ownership. Renters don’t have that level of time or patience.
My most recent rental experience was a Toyota Corolla out of an airport. It was perfectly standard stuff, and within 2-3 minutes I had everything setup as I wished it, including the radio, without having to dive into the manuals. (Figuring out the fuel cap later on though was a trial admittedly).
@@anthonydyer3939 I just found it kind of strange you did not even try that VW-button in the video. But you're right. I prefer physical buttons too. VW design was getting worse. I tried Model 3 two times, but wipers and glove box over the screen? No, thanks. The Kia EV6 or new E-Niro did it better imo with the shared button for climate and radio stuff. We still have our first EV, an Ioniq eletric. Physical button for everything. This car is so easy to operate. Still love it.
I really don´t understand why the chargers are not as a gas pump where you just swipe the card and charge. I Have rented electrics in Spain, Portugal and Italy. All are very very hard to use. I don´t recommend.
i rented a model 3 LR in Norway last summer, went Oslo to Bergen Return, AC charged (for free) overnight in car park in Bergen , parking cost 20 euro approx , it was perfect. but the Range of the LR is superb compared to the ID3. winter might have been worse, but the superchargers would have helped big time. i didnt have access to the tesla app , just the card
Tesla has some of the best thermal management. Chances are a model 3 would have slightly better range.
Model 3 will have a better range but only by virtue of having a bigger battery.
In terms of wh/mile, my model 3 would be in the same ballpark as the id3 for those temperatures.
There's no doubt that cold temperatures really are toilsome for today's NMC battery chemistries.
hello from norway, eventhough I have all the apps, all the thingys, and .. I'm a native, I dont do EV's for rental here. (my daily is an EV)
Your daily is an EV? Oh dear.
Would the experience be any better renting an EV in the UK. And if you have a non-UK mobile? Isn't the charging infrastructure here equally fragmented?
I’d say it would be much worse. The foundation of any ev renting experience has to be hotel charging. I wouldn’t have rented an ev in Norway if the hotel didn’t have charging available. I’ve seen precious few hotels offering chargers in the uk. And as far as charging infrastructure is concerned, it’s far less developed. There’s more 100kw+ chargers without an hours drive of Tromso than there are near Aberdeen, and Aberdeen is a far bigger city than Tromso.
That said, renting a cottage is easy with an EV. Just bring a normal 3 pin plug and your’re sorted.
Right now out of Aberdeen airport, none of the hire car companies offer EVs. Rather perversely, it’s far more expensive to rent a car in Aberdeen now than the same size car in Tromso. It used to be the other way round.
Driving on the wrong side of the road, covered in snow, so you can’t see any road markings….stressful ?
I’m used to wrong side driving. It’s other rules that can catch me out. Yielding to cars entering from the right is not a hardwired action for me.
Having to dynamite my brakes for suicide pedestrians who pop out behind a wall and walk straight onto a pedestrian crossing without so much as waiting for drivers to slow down is common place too. All told the yielding to pedestrians does certainly create abrupt driving styles, and it’s not just me.
@@anthonydyer3939 ..ha, i often end up on the wrong side of the road driving in the snow!
As a pedestrian / cyclist in Norway it is almost embarrassing how the drivers give way. Norway is the best place I have cycled with regards to considerate drivers.
I wont be buying an ID3 or ID4 any time soon. You have my full sympathy, Anthony!, I really hate these Apps!
Indeed, all over, the difference between Tesla and the other EV auto makers is beyond. Tesla just works, yet with the usual auto makers there are a lot of issues…. and Biden instead of helping Tesla become wider is fighting it…. interest before the planet, quality of life of citizens and other positive issues….. well done for Norway.
There's a reason people buy (and rent) Tesla's.
Pity the ID3 charge port is on wrong side.
They need AC charging points at the rental hub.
The hire company have to get their money back somehow because it will be worth bugger all when they try to sell it on. But what if you don't have one of those ridiculous not so Smart phones? I'll stick with my reliable diesel Defender thanks.
I think the hire car company would get even more money back if the experience of renting an ev wasn’t so dire. I don’t know how high or low their utilisation rate for their cars are, but that would be the first point of focus for getting the most money out of a vehicle, not the service fees for a few seconds of time taken to plug it in.
From what I can see, the difference between an EV and an ICE rental vehicle is with the EV you are essentially planning your vacation around charging your car. With an ICE vehicle you go wherever you want to go, whenever you want to go and can easily refuel when low on petrol.
For EV renters, you’re right. Renting an EV is very much a pioneering endeavour. But owning an EV is easier simply because you are also investing in home charging.
In time, I think all hotels that already offer parking will also offer 7kw charging in abundance (but with outrageous pricing for big brand hotels). At that point planning a vacation/ business trip with an EV becomes as easy as looking for a hotel with wifi included.
Only if you travel with non Tesla.
You're also tracked through all of these apps you need to download onto your phone.
Maybe the rain deer could pull your ev after it dies
I think you are being deliberately obtuse about the ID.3. "locations" are clearly not a map. The charging speed at low temps is much lower than the headline speed which is tested at 25C, this is basic physics and will be the same in a Tesla unless navigating to a SuperCharger (pre-heat). Watch a few Bjorn Nyland videos for charging in the cold in Norway. Your problems charging at non-Tesla locations would be the same no matter what vehicle you are in, including a Tesla. With regards the software, your car is on an older version of the ID software, after 3.1 charging kW is displayed and battery % is in the dash display.
BTW what is your Tesla's range in Norwegian temperatures? Not the numbers you state in your round up! Come on, compare apples with apples!
I think Hertz probably did not give the customer a good experience by not providing a means to charge in the local area. (your idea on RFID cards is a good one)
I feel you are being disingenuous about the actual state of a non-Tesla vehicle. Shame, I have found some of your videos very informative but unlikely to watch any more.
(Yes I own an ID.4 🙂)
Yes, the Model 3 range is reduced a lot at minus 8 degrees, but it's still a decent range. I still have enough charge to get to/from Inverness with plenty of spare charge once I returning home.
Regarding the user interface: I say what I see. It's a first impression and it's measured against the experience I had with the Mk 7 VW Golf that I had before. The basics of having a map and a radio available were not instantly obvious as they were on earlier VW's.
You're right about charging speed, but again: The battery was slowly warming up, as evidenced by the slowly increasing regen capacity as I was driving, so it's it's ability to take charge despite the cold weather should have been improved.
Studded tyres are mandatory in winter, so it will have them
Winter tyres are mandatory certainly. But studless winter tyres are certainly legal elsewhere in Norway. I haven’t heard of studded tyres being mandatory in particular localities.
@@anthonydyer3939 correct I guess. Most seem to use studded tyres
Why would you make a car where it doesn’t just wait for the other end to start communicating? Utter nonsense by VW!
They are probably trying to prevent the 12v battery from going flat but they could have given it a little longer, that's for sure.
I think your cheap rental car is too cheap to have maps and radio 😁
Cannot believe how much trouble you had in a country with so many electric cars. Surely more chargers should be contactless!!
I don’t know how much contactless readers cost, but I imagine it would be a minor cost compared to the overall charger assembly and installation cost. The recharge branded charger was closest to any easy payment experience, but such a shame the plugging in procedure was the wrong way round. But qr codes are insecure. It’s not hard to insert Rick Astley into charging attempts! There have been instances of ionity qr codes being replaced with fake phishing codes in the uk.
Headache coming
on, find a charger find a charger find a charger, time and money, and Norway a terrible land for travel, Tolls and tolls and unfare subsides for electric cars, no free markets there, lived in Norway and Scandinavia for 30 years
The road tolls would certainly be a headache to suffer on a daily basis, but I’d contend that electric cars aren’t subsidised over there. They just aren’t taxed to the same extent as petrol cars. A lower tax isn’t a subsidy, it just feels like one. But you’re right: Travel isn’t cheap. That said, check out the hire car prices in Aberdeen airport. It’s nearly double the Tromso rates.
The thing that gets me over there is the cost of food. 50kr for an 800gram loaf of bread!
@@anthonydyer3939i was in Tromso this summer (on bike), the choice of excellent bread at most supermarkets was amazing, yes a bit more than UK, but not that much. I was camping, cost about £12 a day on food.