3D hall effect joysticks, new tech for the future?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Welcome to this video on 3D Hall Sensors, a revolutionary technology that has the potential to change everything in the world of gaming controllers. These sensors, which were first introduced in 2020/2021, offer unparalleled accuracy and performance, making them a game-changer for gamers everywhere.
But despite their impressive capabilities, few people seem to be taking advantage of them. In this video, we'll take a deep dive into 3D Hall Sensors and explore what we can expect from this technology.
We'll also discuss the potential for using these sensors to create something truly special in the world of gaming.
So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn all about 3D Hall Sensors and how they could potentially change everything in the world of gaming controllers.
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One thing to look out for is that the magnetic field generated by your motor may create noise in your hall effect sensor. Looking forward to seeing it develop, sounds like an interesting project!
Yeah that is very true. My hopes is the sensor can be inside and motors on the outside. I will test and find out.
@MariusHeier1 you can sheild it with aluminum maybe?
this is really cool! seeing motorized joysticks that are as small as current sticks is really awesome! one of the coolest things i've seen in a while for game controller tech.
What the heck? You're a mad scientist! This here is great stuff!
Haha thanks! One of the greatest compliment today so far. ;) Just getting started!
Wow, what a chance to see the beginning of a big content creator from a sub 5k subscriber channel. Anyway, very good content.
Thanks for the kind words. :)
Brilliant work. Controllers are in serious need of modernisation.
I've been hacking on an RC pistol style controller for sim racing using hall sensors.
The lego prototype is already much better than a gamepad for this use case.
Ultimately want to do ffb too but it's slow progress as a hobby effort.
Thank you so much! Sounds awesome! I also checked out your ds4webhid. Very cool stuff and nicely implemented!
@Marius Heier Wow thanks! Would love to develop some web games with advanced controller support via Web USB. Too many projects. Too little time.
make this work in a dualshock 4 shell which works with ps5 games and i would pay you 200€ for the controller :D great video!
That's amazing. Still waiting for that JDS-011 Type-C board, as soon as i see it available i will be buying one.
That will hopefully happend very very soon :)
I just got the jds-40 board the connector was smashed in however i was able to fix it and its amazing thank you for ur hard work
Oh really, im glad you manage to fix it. Send me a picture. itsme@mariusheier.com . Would be interesting to see. Glad you like it :) 😊
@@MariusHeier1 i was able to install it its just the 12 pin connector got smashed in maybe the best solution is to put the boards with some foam that would be the beat solution
Great job 👍
Thank you :)
You should make a patreon, or add RUclips memberships to the channel. I'd love to be able to support you monthly!
It makes me so happy to see hall sensors making a resurgence after being left by the wayside for so many years. The fight against corporate greed is going our way!
Thanks man :) Let's do it! We are gonna win, irresistible!
This could be great for a cheap 3D mouse for CAD and Blender
Yeah. What is a good one which is popular?
this is fucking awesome dude! Already bought 2 USB-C boards from you and will gladly buy them joysticks if you end up selling them!
Awesome. Thanks fot buying:)
Good work! I thought the hall joysticks were just something you could buy off the shelf.
Thanks! I havent seen anyone sell them. Other han the gullikit mentioned in the video. But they dont fit the "standard" footprint.
Great to see the next level of your developments .. good luck 🫡
Thank you 😊
If you want to know everything there is to know about PCB magnets and motors talk to Carl Bugeja right here on youtube
I think Sega did this over 20 years ago of the Dreamcast the only difference is they only had four sensors instead of having one
I'll wait for u to make ur own controller.. Amazing videos 🤩
Thank you so much! Me too!
Interesting. This is beyond what the current Gulikit analog sticks can do. But I do wonder if it'll maintain PS4 compatibility, as Gulikit seems to only limit themselves on the Switch, mobile devices, and PC, which leads me to believe they don't have the licenses to connect to PS or Xbox.
I also think that the stick feedback would be another whole can of worms that you would need to solve, as I think no game has this functionality yet. The haptic trigger had to be programmed by the game devs, and I believe this would be the same, unless you can make the process easier and get the data from Rumble
Gullikit needs to have the magnetic sensor on a pcb. And because its not part of their joystick. So thats probably a reason why there is no kit yet. And you would probably need to run another microcontroller to feed the original controller with the voltage levels it wants. My first idea for feedback would be to use it instead of rumbling motors. Maybe a good start. Its gonna be fun to order my own pcbdesign for the ps4 controller and experiment with that as well. Thabks for you comment
So we had the same idea. So it's probably a good one :)
the only downside I can see to them is they still use a spring-loaded analog stick with plastic around it that is still gonna wear out and become loose over time just gonna take 3 times as long to be loose and wobbly but it will eventually start happening from loose analogs with weak springs but other than that concern I'm loving them things.
The company's worst nightmare: a product that lasts forever
You should work with virpl joystick and make a force feed back flight stick. You might even be able to make a 6dof force feedback tick base for space Sims
Please take my money! Great content Marius.
The big companies don't use them, because they would make less money...
That's why you have those shitty ones, that break faster = buy a new controller :)
Yes. Im afraid you have alot right in that.
@@MariusHeier1 not sure who it was again, but Sega or something had hall effect ones in the 90s already :)
@@BornInArona yup. It was sega
nice tease on the jds-11, can't wait to order those. love the quality of your videos (the music is a tat to loud) i'm curious what will come next keep up the great work (:
Thanks for the feedback. Im still experimenting with that sort of stuff. (Music volume). Thanks for the compliment. After the poll it looks like its gonna be hall sticks first ;)
In stock now ;)
Both SEGA Saturn and Dreamcast had hall-effect joysticks in their controllers. Hall-effect sensors is not something new.
Its the 3 in one package that is new. And that they do the math to output rotational angles of all three fields.
SONY: We need to hire him for PS10
Great work! I am searching for a small formfactor forcefeedbackjoystick for a while now. Your work would enable to fly a realistic flightsim from the couch without the need of a cockpit replica. Especially flying Sailplanes virtually is quite dependent on the forcefeedback wich makes a decent simrig expensive. I am following your project with great interest. I came here from the Hackadayblog.
Awesome. Thank you! One challenge of force feedback and small form factor are batteries. Would probably need a bigger pack or cable. What sims have sailplanes? Sounds really cool. I use to fix airplanes as a job many years ago.
jooo! that force feedback is amazing. you should work with sony fr fr
Im not sure my garage factory would be able to supply the numbers they need. Haha. But thanks gor the compliment
When is PS4 USB-C coming back in-stock? My Dualshock 4 Micro USB port is literally starting to break and I have to keep moving the charger for it to work. I don't want to order anymore Micro USB too so I don't want to buy a circuit board of Micro USB and I really need this. Please! I've been waiting for the item to go back in stock since July and it's still Sold-Out. I live in Canada.
This could be the thing to the future generation of the console gaming in 2030
I say we make it in 2023 :o
Great video but a small nit-pick, the sound effects are way too loud compared to your voice, same with music. This is especially noticable on phone speakers
Do not make a rotating joystick for a controller it's absolutely horrible. My PS3 controllers all go it after a half a year of use and they spun when trying to use the joysticks.
If you could make a drop in replacement hall joystick for Xbox I bet you could sell a decent amount of them. I know I would buy a couple.
Already working on that :) 😉
@@MariusHeier1 alrighty then, I'll be subscribed and waiting
that looks amazing
Talk to Carl Bugeja! He designs PCB actuators and motors
Good tip! Thanks
I think you're on the way to making a new way to manipulate 3d models in CAD. I don't know if this has been done before, but that twisting motion would be VERY HELPFUL in fusion 360.
Yeah i never thought about that. But its very true! I always find it super hard to pan around what im working on like that.
3Dconnexion Spacemouse is a big player in the CAD world.
The space navigator has this function in a different implementation. You can twist it a little bit to trigger things, both sides. And since it has the perfect force to push itself back to its base position its actually quite nice to use.
Wouldn't it be able to track a complete 6dof motion. By tracking rotation and position simultaneously in 3 axis, it would allow for a gimbal controller coming off of a single unit, probably not viable for a joystick, but opens up possibilities for simulation rigs.
If you can use the motors to hold the stick in any position then you can make the stick act like a throttle lever by allowing it to move up and down and hold position there but re-centering it if it goes off in the y axis. You could maybe even create some custom resistance maps to make it behave in more complex ways depending on it's position, like making it stimulate a gear shift - so it will hold a few specific positions but if you push it outside of those positions it will return to the nearest one (or maybe use some more complex pathing to determine which one to return to).
Every controle makes missed a golden shot on making the best controller.
But they are competing to make the most expansive shit with the most cheapass parts.
True. It seems like they mostly just copy each other and the only variety is colors and button placements.
@@MariusHeier1 and ergonomics. Switch and Xbox personally have the worst. PS5 all the way. Hall effect joysticks are superieur. That's why people love the steam deck. Aftermarket parts with the right joysticks. Or first party even.
make a controler with this joysticks and put it availeble to buy on ur web page...plz my friend i will buy them....i love ur way of thinking
Didnt the Dreamcast and PS3 use hall effect sensors?
Yes!
the content of this video amazing man is the music way too loud
Thanks for the feedback. I will adjust it for my next video. :)
Again, great Job , amazing aplication . The twisting funtion could be super intresting in gaming or other apps, also the feedback hall motor joistick funtion seen in action it,s very usefull . The cuality of the video explanation,CG demos , joystick implementation , great Job .keep pushing furder inovation.
Thank you so much for writing this comment. And appreciating all the work. You are right :) And lets keep pushing forward
Call me Veruca Salt! Cause I want it now! ❤
Im wont be Willy for long! Must work fast!
0:17 Now I know why they are not used. (This is the first time I've seen a part number.) Their quantization is horrible (at least for the part that is used here). They need to be 16bit. This part is 8bit. They are fine for triggers which Xbox uses. But this lacks the precision needed for joysticks for many games.
Is your code available to try?:-) Great Job!
Thanks 🙏. Code for the hallsensor? Or any of the other stuff?
@@MariusHeier1 No big deal, The hall sensor code, That looks like something I'd like to try with a robotic joint, to give multi angle feedback. (closed loop). I have been experimenting with 9 axis gyro sensors, but I think they are too noisy. I'm guessing magnetic fields may be more constant.
I got an idea about the force feed back stick, what abut car pedals? Force feedback for legs, you could make a handbrake! Soo many options!
Yes for sure.the same concept can be applied to many use cases. Endless ;)
the problem is
how can we use and when should we use. if i had to use one hand just to rotate that, it miss the point of being a controller.
don`t tease the JDS-011 I waaaaaannnttttttt😭
Xbox Elite controllers have an issue with the potentiometers this would be a game changer, I'd get a pair and mod it myself if you release the hardware!! Great stuff defo subscribed hope to see you rise in the future!!
Thanks. They all do! It needs to be fixed ;)
Great work Marius, I will be following this with great interest !...cheers and a Happy New Year to you and your's.
Thank you as always Andy. :) And the same back to you and yours.
soo the chip can detect the changing of the magnet field just by rotating a magnetic ring bellow it?(bellow cuz is the orientation of the chip in the pot) and its has good accuracy? if so this is a nice idea, and would be better if we could integrated easily in a normal controler
Yes. Its how we track axles on really expensive motors, for controlling gyros etc. They are far more accurate and precise than pot meters. The sensors im using is typically find in products that costs 100-300$. Pr sensor. This project needs 4. But i dont have any middle men here that need to make the extra money. Just straight from the factory
SFX and music are WAAAy too loud...
Hi, will you be making a dualsense version? I wouldn't mind paying 30 - 35$
Yes!
Biggest issue is the slop in the joystick module. The sissor mechanisum is just as much at fault as the potentiometer. You will ideally need to come up with a frictionless module.
Thanks for the feedback You swen this more than me! You mean the guide for the center stick? Or the recentering plastic pin with the spring?
@@MariusHeier1 yes correct the plunger and spring also the bottom plate the plunger skids on. I've see the whole mech be completley limp specially on certain PS3 controller that used the 4 pin hall pots. The whole analog module needs to be redesigned due to mechanical wear. They only have a certain finite life span. The Pots are only half the story IMO.
@@UberMicroRepairs yeah. I agree. kailh have made analog sticks and their springs are like 2x. Its gonna be in a upcoming video. Also doing cycle tests to get data. Just finished a cycle test rig.
@@MariusHeier1 could you make a magnetic spring that pushes the joystick to the center? ideally it would be at the top, not interfering with the magnet below.
@@l0k048 yeah .good one. thats an option i will probably try. Might not need a full motor..but just a coil and a magnet. Or.. just two magnets..for each axis!
bro the force feedback would be so great for fighting games, its like a built in gate you can change the shape of in software
EDIT: also the twisty knob thing would be awesome for flight sims and such as you can use the normal axes for pitch and roll and the twist for yaw
just purchased 2 of your usb c boards cant wait to get a hold of them, looking forward to see what you can do with these hall senors
Awesome! My favourite sentence 😊 They will ship out as fast as possible.
Sheesh this was awesome, keep up the good work bruv!
Thank you so much.
While I've no clue if it's feasable, wouldn't you be able to use them along with the shoulder buttons (R2 and L2) to get a precise reading of it's position? Not sure if there's space for the force feedback you mentioned, but that would be wicked cool if possible
Yes. You are right. Its on the plan for the future!
@@MariusHeier1 That's pleasing to hear! The PS4 controller of your design will be so damn awesome
This would be an incredible advancement in stock tech; good work! :D
Ps5 when ?
Ps4 first, then ps5 and xbox!
The sanwa jlm uses one
This is pretty good 😀
Try changing the length of the stick inside. It'll give you more or less travel of the magnet over the sensor and you could get it configured so that the range of positions that the stick takes at rest, are within a small enough target to minimize the "dead zone". With tolerances expecting the springs to wear out over their expected lifetime of course.
"Haven't seen them in any controllers" - Which are you specifically referring to? Many joysticks and other similiar products have had hall sensors for a long time. For example the cheap and cheerful T.16000M joystick for more than 10 years!
I refer to 3d hallsensors. Where 3 are in one package. Not hall sensors in general
@@MariusHeier1 Alright! The TM joystick indeed doesn't have rotation axis with a hall sensor.
This is so cool!!!
Thank you!!!
Dreamcast had them in 1999... Just saying 🙂
True that. But they had them in multiple packages. This is multiple sensors in one package.
You were talking about resolution per 1 degree with the hall sensor. This is significantly better than PlayStation analogue stick resolution.
I’ve noticed when aiming with a DualShock 4 or DualSense controller, that making very tiny adjustments is quite imprecise. Even with KontrolFreeks, the small movement accuracy seems to be quite limited with PlayStation controllers.
Would Hall effect sticks feel noticeably better? Like would you feel the increased resolution when trying to make small adjustments to your aim?
I think i will find out later today 🤠 Almost all gaming controllers made is using the alps alpine joystick. Which is 1$ joystick from the early 2000s. Because it is so noisy. Noisy being like the computer think it is constantly vibrating. (It doesnt vibrate, it just think it is because of the way the joystick make its signal). They usually add smoothing effect in the controller computer. This can make noticeable lag which can be manifested as you describe. Also many of the controllers use low resolution voltmeters/analog2digitalConverters for resding the joystick signal/output voltage. So even though the controller computer says its suppose to have 255 positions pr joystick axis. It might just have 127.
I should def make a video of every components/subsystem of a controller.
@@MariusHeier1 really good replies, thank you!
Would it be possible for you test the SnR ratio of different controllers and the real world positions per stick? It would be really cool to have this kind of data measured on a video, to spread awareness of how bad most controller analogue sticks are.
Thrustmaster make a controller called the eSWAP Pro. They sell improved analogue sticks with it, called NXG sticks. The RUclipsr called Rocket Science tested the stick accuracy and deadzone for many different controllers. What he found was almost every controller had noticeably imperfect stick accuracy and off-centre deadzones. PlayStation controllers fairer better than Xbox, but were still far from perfect.
The Thrustmaster NXG sticks were visually perfect. Accuracy was extremely good, with Deadzones almost perfectly centred.
Can you explain this? I know sticks need factory calibrating, but how are the Thrustmaster NXG sticks so much better? Better calibration? Better analogue stick ADC? Using hall sensors?
Controllers suck and will never compete with keyboard + mouse. Clickbait title.
Controller wins in my book when playing from my couch with legs on the table. I like mouse and keyboard when I wanne be sweaty and drop a 5 bomb in a bot lobby
Brain dead response. Figure out how to upgrade your tsr-80 to get with the times. Complacency will never be superior to innovation. (See what I did there, irony)
0:55 HECTOR⁉️⁉️⁉️
4:28 ;)
@@MariusHeier1 the greatest to ever do it
Would having 2 joysticks close to each other similar to the PS4 impact the sensitivity? Not sure if you can incorporate modularity similar to the Gulkit ones too. That said, you should patent your design once you get it right!
I will probably open source it. ;) I think they will be to far to have any significant impact. But we will have to see. When you have the magnet and sensor inside. It can be shielded as well.
I dont think it will be the future because if sony, microsoft and nintendo arent selling their controllers 😂
Hello, Nice to see you. Keep It up bro 🤍🔝✨'
Thank you fpr the feedback! 🙏😎