Why I like the Princess and the Frog, they invert this and have the father be the missing piece without degrading Tiana's mother, but it still feeds into Tiana's character and motivations. Treasure Planet is similar but showing a different damaging effect on a father who is absent for different reasons. Brave is centred around a mother-daughter relationship that shows mothers are not always perfect and make mistakes like fathers do. Frozen is a rather funny example as there seemed to be more damage done when both parents were present and the sisters could only come together after they were both gone. Basically with most Disney films I am always interested to see what direction they are going to take the main character's interactions with their family, or lock of thereof, about.
A good example of a Disney movie where the main character has a mother is Treasure Planet. Jim's mom is in the movie, but she doesn't have an active role in the story. She stays behind, while Jim goes on his adventure. She's actually His motivation for going on His adventure, wanting the treasure to give her a new business. His father, on the other hand, didn't die, like in most stories. He just up and left.
Dead and buried before we get there. They gave Bambi a mom and we know how that went. Good points- Lilo and Stitch illustrates how hard it is to be a mom with watercolors and Elvis as well as being the only Disney movie I ever connected to and watched more than once
Even some of the male characters like Aladdin seem to suffer from this trend. In his case, his mother is dead (typical Disney) and his father was basically the head of a crime syndicate.
"Okay guys, we need a way to show our appreciation fo mothers in our movies. What can we do? "We could martyr them." "Brilliant! Get this man a raise" "Actually sir, it was Sheila's idea." *Cocks gun* "You know what to do." (I'm so sorry, this comment turned out to be way darker than what I thought was. I love my mother.)
Council of Geeks Hypocrisy at it's finest. Also, third comment to get liked by you. This is the most attention I've gotten from any youtuber. I like it.
This has definitely been a thing in past movies in general. Included in this 'genre' are some of the great multi-Oscar winning titles like; Mary Poppins and also The Sound of Music and Oliver (not just Disney), so its not just animated stuff. Having a missing parent or none creates the impression of our character being the underdog in life....and who doesn't like to see the underdog win? Both Snow White and Cinderella wouldn't even exist if not for missing parents. It may be a cheap trick but when done well reaps its just rewards.
ilovecatweazle actually the kids in Mary Poppins had both parents but they were so busy, the father with his banking and the mother with her women's suffrage movement.
The Princess and the Frog is a rare exception. Mom lives. Dad dies. However Tiana is doing all right and her mother gives her great advice about love. The only problem is that she has no money. Fathers usually serve the provider role so this makes sense.
The incredibly stupid father/smart mother pairing was first popular on TV in the late 40s when television was just starting. Then the 50s got tired of that and decided to flip the script and thus you got a bunch of shows with smart father/stupid mother dynamics which remained popular through to the 70s. Then came the 80s when practically everyone was stupid--hell, everyone was equal opportunity stupid. Then came the 90s where if there were any kids in your show they were typically the clever ones and the parents were either tough love or not all there. And then come the early 2000s, we went back to the early days of 40s TV.
Bewitched, Nanny and the Professor, One Day at a Time, Alice, Facts of Life, etc. The dumb dad is right up there with the dumb blonde as far as being a over used storyline.
In ghost or haunted films, the mother always has been through some kind of trauma or has mental issues, that's how they explain away the fact that no one believes her, they don't believe the kids, because they're kids, but the mother is more likely to listen to her child and not dismiss the idea of ghosts, so the mother then has to be exposed to to the ghost. Because of her "issues" it allows the plot to continue, because she isn't believed. The father is always usually carrying some kind of guilt, either he's cheated, and she's forgave him, or it's him that's uprouted the family who didn't want to move, that's how they explain, the fact that the husband, just dosent take his wife to a doctor. 1 because he's got something to hide, or because he feels it's his fault his wife and children are "looseing it" so he has to put things right on his own, or gain her trust back. Again it just helps the viewer understand alot more, without having to explain everything.
As a single father with a child with an absent mother this makes me a bit sad that there isn't a single father in Disney that has got it together, need representation.
KerstinMamma What about Triton? I mean yeah he and Ariel had conflict, and he didn't have to break all of her shit, but he did it out of love..He was ruler of the entire sea and a single father of like 8. I'd say he had it together.
I thought there was no mums in the movies because when Walt Disney got a lot of money, he brought his parents a house. The gas was leaking and the house exploded and his mum died. Walt was so upset that he transitioned his pain into the movies - but your reasons make a bit more sense
The incompetent Dad cliché grew in the late 80s and early 90s as a response to or deconstruction of the "Father Knows Best" attitude. You could probably argue the trend started as early as I Dream of Genie or Bewitched because those were shows in which the disparity of power favoured the women. Even a woman who only wanted to please her man was still emasculating if she had more power. But it indicted the hypercompetent father figure, a staple of a lot of the earliest TV the generation writing these shows remembered. Many of the early leading women of TV were incompetent and fell apart without their man to run things.
And let's not forget Pinocchio, where there's basically no mother (although there is something of a mother figure with the fairy) and a cricket gives more moral guidance than the father can. In terms of single mothers, we have the earlier parts of Dumbo, where the father doesn't exist for some reason and the mother becomes fiercely protective of her son when he's mistreated for his appearance. Although later in the film, like in Pinocchio, we have a mouse looking after Dumbo after his mother is locked up pretty much for doing what any mother would do if her child were threatened.
Honestly, when you get right down to it : a child or teen protagonist with *two* parents is just piling on extra work load for both animators and writers. The end result will lead to the story dragging on OR becoming awkward, because now you have an important character in the protagonist's life whose just *there* and contributes nothing to the plot. Disney wants to make animated feature films roughly 98 minutes *MAX* not 155 minutes. The conflict between Ariel & her father in "The Little Mermaid" was compelling and memorable. Just perfect. Involving another parent's reactions and input would've spoiled the moments and focused too much attention on her family and away from, y'know, winning the Prince & defeating the Sea Witch. The last 2-D Princess movie they kept the protagonist's mother, but the *father* was disposed of within 2 minutes of the movie. Why? Because it's an animated 90 minute musical, and again : there are adventures to be had, songs to be performed. Do we really need the opinions and reactions of 2 parents? This same logic can be applied to Belle, Jasmine Pocahontas, and Mulan. It's not a Disney movie but "The Iron Giant" operated on the same logic, except Hogarth had his mother, not his father. As for why it's usually mothers and not fathers who are "erased" : probably due to keeping up with the "Daddy's Little Girl" trope and not having too many female characters in the movie. That kind of thing turns a segment of audiences off on a subconscious level, even if they don't come out and say it.
Fun talk. I also see it less often of opposite gender parent-child is shorthand for trouble, like in non-Disney Iron Giant. Mom-son is not as often, but still understood. Dad-daughter happens a lot in Disney specifically with the princesses and all. Hmmm.
One of the first things Walt did with his Snow White money was buy his mother a house. Tragically, her house burnt down, killing her. Walt, understandably, took it hard. If I had to guess why it started in Disney, it might have been an attempted coping mechanism to him. Then after...you probably hit the nail on the head with this video.
In England we have Mothers Day in March not May. Me and my brother cooked for our mum cus she is amazing and deserves the world. But we are in 2018 we should see more representations of different types of family dynamics in all kinds of films not just animated films. single mum's single dad's, a kid being raised by grandparents or aunts and uncles, foster families, adoptive parents, same sex parents, kids being raised by older siblings. we need to show the diversity of family and show that not all families are a mum and dad and their 2 children and maybe a dog.
Well we do get other representations (Big Hero 6 is an aunt, Princess and the Frog has a widow, Lilo & Stitch has an older sister as parent, etc.) The problem isn’t just representation, but rather that anything that ISN’T two biological parents is always shown to be somehow broken or dysfunctional in some way.
The trend of "stupid fathers" on TV was mostly a reaction to the paternalistic sitcom dads of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, who always knew best and were typically used to deliver the moral lesson of the episodes. IE humor derived from inverting a trope.
Coroline has an interesting dynamic. Although both her parents are alive and well, it still focuses more on corolines relationship (Or lack of it) with her mother. Kind of shows just because, mothers arn't all sunshine and daisy chains, beautiful, cake baking, hair brushing, dress making, song singing, wisdom giving, hugging, kissing, soft spoken, Angels as they are usually depicted in such films, doesn't mean they arn't good mothers, just trying their best.
Coraline does have a similar premise with effectively absent parents. But the big difference was that the film put a bit of time into establishing why they weren't as active with Coraline even though they were physically there, rather than just going "because they're dead."
It would have been so much easier to have her mother dead though and coroline pining over a perfect mother that probably never existed. Her perfect mother living in the other world. Probably would have added to the creepy factor too, if she would have been dead. Instead it shown a child pining for a family that she already had. It was still the mother that was the main focus, she was the leading force, it was her coroline craved attention from, and the dad was basicly just doing as we was told in both worlds. Did you know it was Mark gatiis who wrote coroline?
Animation fathers are usually dead/absent, incompetent, or jerks/evil, while the mothers are typically dead or widows. While technically not a Disney, film, “The Secret of NIMH” had a single mother as the main character. “Lilo & Stitch,” too.
Simple explanation is Walt bought his mother a house when he made his first successful film and the furnace was not installed correctly and she died from carbon monoxide poisoning, that's why there are not many mothers in Disney films
That only accounts for a handful. Absent mothers aren’t part of the original versions of Little Mermaid, or Aladdin or Chicken Little and then there’s all the original stories they have it happen in like Finding Nemo or Lilo & Stitch.
To be pedantic; it is never "Mother's Day" here. The US Mother's Day is secular and a celebration of mothers and motherhood. Our's is Mothering Sunday, a tradition of our state religion.
Why I like the Princess and the Frog, they invert this and have the father be the missing piece without degrading Tiana's mother, but it still feeds into Tiana's character and motivations. Treasure Planet is similar but showing a different damaging effect on a father who is absent for different reasons. Brave is centred around a mother-daughter relationship that shows mothers are not always perfect and make mistakes like fathers do. Frozen is a rather funny example as there seemed to be more damage done when both parents were present and the sisters could only come together after they were both gone. Basically with most Disney films I am always interested to see what direction they are going to take the main character's interactions with their family, or lock of thereof, about.
The only thing more dangerous than being a redshirt..is being a Disney parent
Except it's usually the women in red shirts who survive, isn't it? ;)
A good example of a Disney movie where the main character has a mother is Treasure Planet. Jim's mom is in the movie, but she doesn't have an active role in the story. She stays behind, while Jim goes on his adventure. She's actually His motivation for going on His adventure, wanting the treasure to give her a new business. His father, on the other hand, didn't die, like in most stories. He just up and left.
Dead and buried before we get there. They gave Bambi a mom and we know how that went. Good points- Lilo and Stitch illustrates how hard it is to be a mom with watercolors and Elvis as well as being the only Disney movie I ever connected to and watched more than once
Even some of the male characters like Aladdin seem to suffer from this trend. In his case, his mother is dead (typical Disney) and his father was basically the head of a crime syndicate.
"Okay guys, we need a way to show our appreciation fo mothers in our movies. What can we do?
"We could martyr them."
"Brilliant! Get this man a raise"
"Actually sir, it was Sheila's idea."
*Cocks gun* "You know what to do."
(I'm so sorry, this comment turned out to be way darker than what I thought was. I love my mother.)
Hey. Sometimes things take a turn.
Council of Geeks Hypocrisy at it's finest. Also, third comment to get liked by you. This is the most attention I've gotten from any youtuber. I like it.
Holy shit it is mother’s day tomorrow!
This has definitely been a thing in past movies in general. Included in this 'genre' are some of the great multi-Oscar winning titles like; Mary Poppins and also The Sound of Music and Oliver (not just Disney), so its not just animated stuff. Having a missing parent or none creates the impression of our character being the underdog in life....and who doesn't like to see the underdog win? Both Snow White and Cinderella wouldn't even exist if not for missing parents. It may be a cheap trick but when done well reaps its just rewards.
ilovecatweazle actually the kids in Mary Poppins had both parents but they were so busy, the father with his banking and the mother with her women's suffrage movement.
The Princess and the Frog is a rare exception. Mom lives. Dad dies. However Tiana is doing all right and her mother gives her great advice about love. The only problem is that she has no money. Fathers usually serve the provider role so this makes sense.
The incredibly stupid father/smart mother pairing was first popular on TV in the late 40s when television was just starting. Then the 50s got tired of that and decided to flip the script and thus you got a bunch of shows with smart father/stupid mother dynamics which remained popular through to the 70s. Then came the 80s when practically everyone was stupid--hell, everyone was equal opportunity stupid. Then came the 90s where if there were any kids in your show they were typically the clever ones and the parents were either tough love or not all there. And then come the early 2000s, we went back to the early days of 40s TV.
Bewitched, Nanny and the Professor, One Day at a Time, Alice, Facts of Life, etc. The dumb dad is right up there with the dumb blonde as far as being a over used storyline.
And then you have horror films where the mothers are often a large part of the story.... (Jason, Norman bates etc.)
In ghost or haunted films, the mother always has been through some kind of trauma or has mental issues, that's how they explain away the fact that no one believes her, they don't believe the kids, because they're kids, but the mother is more likely to listen to her child and not dismiss the idea of ghosts, so the mother then has to be exposed to to the ghost. Because of her "issues" it allows the plot to continue, because she isn't believed. The father is always usually carrying some kind of guilt, either he's cheated, and she's forgave him, or it's him that's uprouted the family who didn't want to move, that's how they explain, the fact that the husband, just dosent take his wife to a doctor. 1 because he's got something to hide, or because he feels it's his fault his wife and children are "looseing it" so he has to put things right on his own, or gain her trust back.
Again it just helps the viewer understand alot more, without having to explain everything.
As a single father with a child with an absent mother this makes me a bit sad that there isn't a single father in Disney that has got it together, need representation.
KerstinMamma What about Triton?
I mean yeah he and Ariel had conflict, and he didn't have to break all of her shit, but he did it out of love..He was ruler of the entire sea and a single father of like 8. I'd say he had it together.
I thought there was no mums in the movies because when Walt Disney got a lot of money, he brought his parents a house. The gas was leaking and the house exploded and his mum died. Walt was so upset that he transitioned his pain into the movies - but your reasons make a bit more sense
The house never exploded, his mother died from the silent killer otherwise known as carbon monoxide poisoning.
And then you have TLK, in which both parents are there. And the father dies and the mother stays alive. ;-)
Good video XD
The incompetent Dad cliché grew in the late 80s and early 90s as a response to or deconstruction of the "Father Knows Best" attitude. You could probably argue the trend started as early as I Dream of Genie or Bewitched because those were shows in which the disparity of power favoured the women. Even a woman who only wanted to please her man was still emasculating if she had more power. But it indicted the hypercompetent father figure, a staple of a lot of the earliest TV the generation writing these shows remembered. Many of the early leading women of TV were incompetent and fell apart without their man to run things.
And let's not forget Pinocchio, where there's basically no mother (although there is something of a mother figure with the fairy) and a cricket gives more moral guidance than the father can. In terms of single mothers, we have the earlier parts of Dumbo, where the father doesn't exist for some reason and the mother becomes fiercely protective of her son when he's mistreated for his appearance. Although later in the film, like in Pinocchio, we have a mouse looking after Dumbo after his mother is locked up pretty much for doing what any mother would do if her child were threatened.
Honestly, when you get right down to it : a child or teen protagonist with *two* parents is just piling on extra work load for both animators and writers. The end result will lead to the story dragging on OR becoming awkward, because now you have an important character in the protagonist's life whose just *there* and contributes nothing to the plot. Disney wants to make animated feature films roughly 98 minutes *MAX* not 155 minutes.
The conflict between Ariel & her father in "The Little Mermaid" was compelling and memorable. Just perfect. Involving another parent's reactions and input would've spoiled the moments and focused too much attention on her family and away from, y'know, winning the Prince & defeating the Sea Witch.
The last 2-D Princess movie they kept the protagonist's mother, but the *father* was disposed of within 2 minutes of the movie.
Why? Because it's an animated 90 minute musical, and again : there are adventures to be had, songs to be performed. Do we really need the opinions and reactions of 2 parents?
This same logic can be applied to Belle, Jasmine Pocahontas, and Mulan.
It's not a Disney movie but "The Iron Giant" operated on the same logic, except Hogarth had his mother, not his father.
As for why it's usually mothers and not fathers who are "erased" : probably due to keeping up with the "Daddy's Little Girl" trope and not having too many female characters in the movie. That kind of thing turns a segment of audiences off on a subconscious level, even if they don't come out and say it.
Bambi famously had a mother. Even if you havent seen Bambi you know hes got a mother because of what happens to her in the movie.
Fun talk. I also see it less often of opposite gender parent-child is shorthand for trouble, like in non-Disney Iron Giant. Mom-son is not as often, but still understood. Dad-daughter happens a lot in Disney specifically with the princesses and all. Hmmm.
One of the first things Walt did with his Snow White money was buy his mother a house. Tragically, her house burnt down, killing her. Walt, understandably, took it hard.
If I had to guess why it started in Disney, it might have been an attempted coping mechanism to him. Then after...you probably hit the nail on the head with this video.
In England we have Mothers Day in March not May. Me and my brother cooked for our mum cus she is amazing and deserves the world. But we are in 2018 we should see more representations of different types of family dynamics in all kinds of films not just animated films. single mum's single dad's, a kid being raised by grandparents or aunts and uncles, foster families, adoptive parents, same sex parents, kids being raised by older siblings. we need to show the diversity of family and show that not all families are a mum and dad and their 2 children and maybe a dog.
Well we do get other representations (Big Hero 6 is an aunt, Princess and the Frog has a widow, Lilo & Stitch has an older sister as parent, etc.) The problem isn’t just representation, but rather that anything that ISN’T two biological parents is always shown to be somehow broken or dysfunctional in some way.
The trend of "stupid fathers" on TV was mostly a reaction to the paternalistic sitcom dads of the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, who always knew best and were typically used to deliver the moral lesson of the episodes.
IE humor derived from inverting a trope.
Coroline has an interesting dynamic. Although both her parents are alive and well, it still focuses more on corolines relationship (Or lack of it) with her mother. Kind of shows just because, mothers arn't all sunshine and daisy chains, beautiful, cake baking, hair brushing, dress making, song singing, wisdom giving, hugging, kissing, soft spoken, Angels as they are usually depicted in such films, doesn't mean they arn't good mothers, just trying their best.
Coraline does have a similar premise with effectively absent parents. But the big difference was that the film put a bit of time into establishing why they weren't as active with Coraline even though they were physically there, rather than just going "because they're dead."
It would have been so much easier to have her mother dead though and coroline pining over a perfect mother that probably never existed. Her perfect mother living in the other world. Probably would have added to the creepy factor too, if she would have been dead.
Instead it shown a child pining for a family that she already had.
It was still the mother that was the main focus, she was the leading force, it was her coroline craved attention from, and the dad was basicly just doing as we was told in both worlds.
Did you know it was Mark gatiis who wrote coroline?
Animation fathers are usually dead/absent, incompetent, or jerks/evil, while the mothers are typically dead or widows. While technically not a Disney, film, “The Secret of NIMH” had a single mother as the main character. “Lilo & Stitch,” too.
In lilo and stitch both parents are dead, lilo is being raised by her struggling teen sister.
Simple explanation is Walt bought his mother a house when he made his first successful film and the furnace was not installed correctly and she died from carbon monoxide poisoning, that's why there are not many mothers in Disney films
Many fairy tales have absent mothers and since many of the movies are based on fairy tales they would naturally carry that over.
That only accounts for a handful. Absent mothers aren’t part of the original versions of Little Mermaid, or Aladdin or Chicken Little and then there’s all the original stories they have it happen in like Finding Nemo or Lilo & Stitch.
you get a single mother in princess and the frog.
LandoWho. And with Dumbo
My mother is great for raising me by herself, wasn’t her choice but I care out... alright.
What about Brave?
what about brave?
You a parrot or something?
Buc Whovian cockatoo?
A mother (or a modern father) would have stoped a lot of the more dangerous stuff.
Its...its not Mother's Day in the UK is it?
no mothers day in the uk was in march lol
To be pedantic; it is never "Mother's Day" here. The US Mother's Day is secular and a celebration of mothers and motherhood. Our's is Mothering Sunday, a tradition of our state religion.
Does he sound like he's in the U.K.?
He does cover Doctor Who a lot so it could seem that way.
‘Ello guvnah. ‘Ave you seen me fish n chips?
*high fives self*
Nailed it.
Thank god disney has nothing against mothers . Maybe its just a coincidence that the fathers usaly do more
I blame third-wave feminism.
*disappears backwards into the shrubbery*
Don’t you be dropping grenades and walking away whistling!