Does Protein Distribution Matter?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- #ProteinDistribution #MuscleGrowth #Biolayne
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Fasting may be suboptimal for lean mass however I think it's still really important for some people who are trying to start losing weight because it's such a psychological game changer for a lot of people. I think my experiences with fasting have given me a broader perspective as to what hunger feels like and I'm now much more aware of when I feel actually hungry vs when I want to eat because I'm bored. I think fasting is a really good tool for teaching people the difference between actual hunger and just being bored and wanting something, and when people know how those feel different, they can make better choices in their diet more often.
Very important point. Addiction is the issue, and as always the first step is to remove the source of temptation. I was never obese, but I wasn't where I wanted to be. Several 5 to 7 day water fasts and two years of IF later, I have complete control over what and when I eat. I can always eat. Food is fun! But I don't NEED to eat.
A fasting window can be a great tool, but if you already struggle with binge eating habits and aren’t accurately tracking, it can take you down. Hard.
I started with IF to avoid bored eating and stress eating and late night eating. Yes, it was effective to a certain extent, but I’ve found IF is increasingly moot.
1) to get my protein goal down (210g/day), I have to eat a lot of small meals to utilize it (as exemplified by this video). I had to adopt larger and larger feeding windows to the point it doesn’t matter anymore.
3) I cycle between high and low calorie days on my plan. 5 days a week I eat low calories, so I don’t have a lot to play with (210g protein goal, again). This means I get as much out of my budget as possible and eat as many single ingredient foods as I can.
Once I’m done with calories, I’m done for the day. Frequent meals keeps me from snacking and I’ve taken shit food off the mental menu. I don’t need IF to protect me from that old habit.
3) I train an hour or so per day. Some is high intensity followed by recovery days. Some is low intensity for long periods of time.
This constant activity demand on my body puts me to bed earlier at night. I don’t have the anxiety I had, so I sleep well… ergo, I don’t do the late night mindless eating staring at the clock on the coffeemaker anymore.
All this said and done, IF can be an effective tool for certain people, but the more you dial in your diet the less important a tool it becomes.
In other words: IF can help establish good habits, but the more advanced you become the less significant the contributions of IF… and honestly, the more pointless it becomes.
Very much agree with this. Though I don't generally fast now, it was effective for helping me learn to better interpret my body signals.
Yeah it is. It’s called skipping a meal and consuming less calories
@@tehphoebus you’re repeating what he said
More evidence to make me think it might be more optimal to maximally spike protein synthesis 3-5 times per day than total consumed protein is on muscle building. Great stuff man
2.5month study done on NOOB lifters....
'Thirty-three healthy young men (aged 18-26 y) were recruited...who had not undergone any RT program for ≥1 y." Great study for discussing long term muscle growth 👍
How he can make the claim 'intermittent fasting (probably) isn't the most optimal thing for building muscle' is silly. I agree with his main claim though, 'theory, theory, theory.' That's all that can be concluded from this.
@FranLesPaulgreat way to deflect from the point I made challenging his claim against IF and the WEAK study he used to justify his narrative👌
But:
50g of almonds (or about 1/2 cup is 250 calories. Double it and you're at 500 or do mixed nuts) Get creative with your food sources bro. If you can't eat in a surplus its not the window, its what you're eating....
Not suggesting you eat pizza but 2 slices of the average pizza is about 500 calories. You have a limiting belief. Try a 6hr eating window for 2 months and experiment with different food sources. It's easily doable if you want to do it!
@@HungarianExperiment lol cant believe that ur actually trying to say that fiting 4k in 8hrs is as easy as in 16hrs lol. Its not even for debate. It can be done okay but you obviously have to eat more junk and will have different macros/micros in a day because of calorie denser food. I don't call it bad food but if I would eat 4k in 8hrs I couldn't eat any of fruits because of satiety. So that diet will be probably defficient in fiber or vitamins.
@@HungarianExperiment how many people were in the study? How much protein did they eat? What was the p value of your specific claim? How was the change measured and did they track and equate for caloric or protein intake? Or even better, can you link the study?
It's hard to actually conduct a good long term study without many limitations, because how can you track someone for a whole year?
@@HungarianExperiment i mean you say it's just "theory theory theory", but I don't see any pro bodybuilders that eat one big meal a day. Wanna know why? Because it's not optimal for building muscle. If you want to know what works, look at the top of the top and see what they are doing.
IDGAF to these minute details about protein synthesis,obsessing over protein intake etc.I have been training for 6 years consistently and have been eating 2 to 3 large meals a day.My strength and muscle mass is at its peak.Instead of obsessing over this why not just train hard CONSISTENTLY without skipping training sessions and hit your target calories and protein intake?
This is my problem with the so called "science based, evidence based" folks who focus mostly on a random 12 week study.
I am kind a 'science applied bro science guy'.
Consistency is the key
The low number of views of this channel in relation to others "fitness influencer" says a lot about RUclips audience. Accessibility to data and knowledge is not the issue. The issue is critical thinking in people.
Improved lean mass following an evenly-distributed protein diet makes sense, considering (as Layne noted) we don't have a storage mechanism for protein. Very cool to see studies specifically looking at this!
Informative as always; no bias and you keep it honest in accordance with the citations. Forever a fan!
I did intermittent fasting for 2 years (almost borderline OMAD where I'd eat 100-200g protein per meal over 1-2 meals), and got in the best shape of my life, naturally to the point I had people ask me if I took steroids. However, looking back, I wish I had been eating the 5 meals a day of protein instead. This is what I will do now.
I know this reply is late but it seems it worked out great for you. Did you try to eat 5 meals a day?
I also want to know if switching the eating time helped
Any updates?
@@goktugyil yeah he's dead now
It virtually doesn't matter
How many people are willing to prepare, consume and clean up after four or five meals per day, plus a serious exercise program, plus work, plus raise kids? After a few years of intermittent fasting and averaging two meals per day, it's hard for me to conceive of going back to that lifestyle. But I don't have ambitious goals with my weight lifting (proper chin-ups, bench press own body weight), so I'm probably fine.
Exactly what I've been trying to find out the last month and a half. Thanks Layne!
I thought I would never give up IF, but perhaps based on the advice here, I can do something like 14:10 with three evenly spaced meals and make sure to get a minimum of 40-50g of protein at each meal. With blood sugar, it is often recommended to exercise (e.g. walk) for 10-30 minutes AFTER eating to lessen glucose spikes after eating, but in terms of metabolizing protein, common sense in weight lifting and exercise is to consume protein AFTER a work out. So contradictory. I guess they can both be right for different purposes. I think I'll try moving from my 18:6 two-meal eating pattern with 2g/kg of protein per day to 14:10 with the same amount of protein split into 3 meals, and still walk after the meal. This video was definitely food for thought!
I think it's important to emphasize that building muscle is really not the only point of eating a certain way. I'm a bodybuilder but I'm generally fine with the mass I've acquired thus far so doing 16 hour fasts some days is actually really cool.
Obviously not. He just said it's likely not optimal for building muscle, and is likely fine for losing fat. The takeaway is that spiking mps regularly and evenly throughout the day seems to be more optimal for building and retaining lean tissue. Do what you like but if you're a bodybuilder and you're fine with what you've built then optimal isn't what you seek, right?
When I do IF I try to spread my protein intake into three meals at 0, 4, and 8 hours of my eating window. Hopefully it's enough MPS events
Good idea. Do you alter types of protein at different times of day based on protein digestion rate? For instance whey early or casein at night bc of IF?
Thank you so much for the detailed breakdown! Just what I needed - would be nice to know the diff when they do 0.8g protein per LB body weight, but this was helpful nonetheless
How much could the rats bench though?
The study says that the weaker could bench 100kg for 271810 reps
over nine thousand
Velho Anzol impressive
405
Tree fiddy
This is great stuff, exactly what we need in a world full of bs. Please do not ever stop making this style of informative content we your audience appreciate it very much!
Great video Layne.
Great video man thanks
Thats why i spread my proteib throughout the day but just do IF with my fats/carbs. Just have a shake or some chicken breast or egg whites a few times a day, then enjoy all my macros at night
SuperHippo95 thats a fine way to do it
SuperHippo95 I’ve done this before towards the end of a cut. It’s fine if you work out in the evening.
Those are very low protein diets! It also matters what the subjects ate with and aswell as the protein also the protein source. Also the longer you go without protein as in IF the more the body can assimilate when you finally ingest protein. I am currently doing better (strength, lean mass, more satiety, less carb cravings) on 2-2.5g/kg in 2 meals. I think this is more like how we are supposed to eat.
Thoughts from me. 1) We do have a storage site for amino acids in the gut, and there is not yet research to test for the significance of this on muscle protein responses. 2) Even though it is not a 'storage site', larger protein intakes at single meals will be absorbed slower and therefore partially replicate a greater frequency of lower protein intakes 3) You have to take into consideration muscle protein breakdown, seen as net muscle balance is the balance between synthesis and breakdown. 4) If you are talking broadly about distribution, this has to apply to tissues outside of muscle such as connective tissue which are crucial to athletic performance.
complementary to what you stated( since it's perfectly correct as i learned so far ) however there's a missing point here and that is the MPS pointcut. i do understand that MPS is stimulated as @Layne states regardless of the net protein intake between ~ 30 - > XX grams. and if one decides to eat more protein at a single meal, that will ONLY stimulate the protein synthesize process once not "partitioned" per 30 grams of the total intake protein. and since the process is NOT bootstrapped then the XX - 30g protein => might be say 20g protein is used for other process not for hypertrophy.
@@claudiucosar I'm not understanding your point. Sorry.
I always get confused, when people say we don’t have a storage system for proteins… what about serum albumin? 50g/L is not an insignificant amount of readily available source of aminoacids and there is an observed increase in albumin synthesis after a protein rich meal.. yes, the storage is not as big as for fat or carbs, but i just don’t buy the need for constant protein intake.
+ depending on your protein source, the digestion alone can take a long time - long enough for you to reach the next meal.
I’d love to be corrected if i missed something :D
A very trusted source that go to for IF info actually agrees with you. As a compromise he suggests people should try the 16-8 method and even the protein distribution as much as possible.
For IF guys you could just have small pure protein servings like bars or shakes or yoghurt or whatever, evenly spaced and save your meals for your eating windows. I know, its not really IF anymore, but at least the eating pattern doesn't need to change much if thats why you're doing IF. Great video thanks!
Then thats not fasting anymore, its PSMF, i do that when i'm going to have a cheat meal that day, 1 big cheat meal and rest is just protein servings
People that follows IF have this belief that the less insulin in the body the better (and all of this thanks to the Nephrologist Jason Fungus and "Dr" chiropractor Eric Berg), they see "insulin spikes" as the devil, all the meals spike insulin production normally unless you eat shit like cookies, a lot of pasta, bread, pizza etc.
Great stuff. Ever since you appeared on Hubberman Lab and Attia Drive I decided to stretch my intermittent fasting window to accommodate 3 instances of protein intake instead of 2.
Also, Don Layman convinced me to have the bulk of it for breakfast. It appears my lean mass has increased by a few % over the course of 6 months because of this intervention alone, which on my level is not a small thing from essentially nothing else than distribution.
I appreciate your knowledge to help all of us be better
Another top video delving into a topic based on actual research
I just walk around with an IV of Kali Muscle's BCAAs all day long. Constant gains brah.
I have found that eating a quarter of my protein, 50 g, first thing in the morning helps me be less likely to binge later in the day.
Cool stuff! I wonder if the meals were equal in calories after protein was modified in them and if it plays a role. For example, if both groups started with 500 kcal breakfast and 30g of protein, then group A had their protein lowered to 10g, was their breakfast modified by adding additional carbs/fats so it still contains the same energy amount? Same goes for other meals, wonder if lower/higher calories in those meals play a role, aside from protein itself. Hope that makes sense.
The answer is, and always be 'spread it'.
As always thank you Layne for spreading your knowledge 🙏
This is a question I’ve had for a few months now. Thank you
I have an IV drip with whey isolate. It's got wheels so I can walk around with it. Anything for the gainz.
Thanks for the reminder! I was distributing just to get it in and this is much more effective!
Protein grams should be adjusted for is amino acid profile, bioavailablity and individual's anabolic resistance. Beef and chicken have the ideal profile but other sources such as whey and plant need to be adjusted upwards to match the ideal amino acid profile of beef and chicken. Whey should be increased by 25% and plant sources by more. The age of the individual determine's how much protein is not absorbed because of anabolic resistance. A 20 year old would have no anabolic resistance and an 80 year old would have a lot. More anabolic resistance means the grams of protein consumed need to be increased to meet ideal level.
Great topic and approach! Keep up the good work!
I can do IF AND distribute protein intake through 3 meals: 33% at 9 a.m. after training fasted, 33% at noon and 33% at 14:30 p.m..
On intermittent fasting, what's missing is how long the anabolic effect of a meal is, if it's,for example, 2 hours, then IF is perfectly viable, if it's 5+ hours, then it's indeed probably suboptimal.
I've always wondered about this. Good to know how it works out.
A follow up question that I have is: What is considered a "Meal"? Is it a time window? Is it a certain quantity of food?
If my "meal" or "protein feeding" lasts 2 hours, does this still apply?
Good question!
I think you just go something like "I eat 200g of protein, in 5 meals that's 40 grams per meal"
It's definitely a time window, not a caloric amount. You spike mps with protein consumption, right? Two hours likely counts as one spike of mps
@@rockyevans1584 Thank you! So that means I can probably nibble on something like beef jerky for an hour or two and still trigger MPS.
@@thepurplebox380 totally, and no worries!
You say protein distribution might matter more when protein intake is lower, but if protein storage is the limiting factor then the same study with higher daily protein intake might see a larger rather than smaller difference between the two groups. If our bodies can't store 85g efficiently, then 250g might be even less efficient when compared to the other group.
Last week I started lifting again and incorporating 6 to 7 meals a day, so far so good
Very informative video. Thanks Layne
clear and concise! 👏👏
Thanks for info bro!
What camera are you using Layne? Looking crisp
Camera type is irrelevant. Light and makeup makes the trick.
High intake with weight training aaaaaaaand on gear and not on gear would be a highly valuable study. Also what about directly after a workout?
Very informative, thank you!
You have to applaud the scientists that so easily can say " here are the limitations or the possible problems with my conclusion" . I think if this study was ever done it also be good to see the difference between evenly split two meals and not skewed where it's super light and then gets heavy at one say you're having two hundred grams a day and you have a hundred at noon and then another hundred at 6:30/7 p.m. for dinner.
Hey man, I noticed you are always mentioning your Phd but can recall I which institution and which positions you got in the ranking of the promotion, where could I find your tesis and curious regarding what mention you got! Keep the good job
I drink a shake (75gs) and a 60gs dinner after my workout in the night (135gs). My other 45gs (180gs total) is spread through the day. Ive been getting good results, but ive never not done it this way so idk.
Thanks for the great info!
I weigh 155 pounds. I try to get about 160 grams of protein every day. I usually eat 4 meals, each meal with around 30-50 grams of protein. If I only eat 3 meals in a day, I usually have a snack of just a protein shake, which is about 20-25 grams of protein.
Great video!
👍 thank you! Nobody ever talks about this
You're speaking my language, I've been working wit h people for 30 years, and anecdotally, I agree with this premise!
250g a day at 5 meals a day is 50g a meal so that's round about when the real questions come in. If you're 240lb+ lean on gear trying for your 1g/lb and you want to eat 4 meals a day you will be at 60g per meal, and 8 meals a day seems awfully inefficient.
Great vid man! Was wondering where you got that shirt from lol
As you said multiple times, theory/theory/theory....
That's all we can do here is theorize based on limited short term studies and results done on rats and 'strength' output/lean mass done for 2.5 months on NOOB lifters or people who haven't lifted for over a year....
If you want to stand basically naked with a bunch of other dudes on a stage 1 time a year and dedicate your life to growing muscle as your main priority then your 'theory' based on WEAK SCIENCE may be plausible but in general there is no discussion here on the long term hormonal effects of intermittent fasting which greatly benefits muscle growth, long term health/life longevity and disease prevention which would benefit the 99%
who won't get on a stage.
Although I am quite glad to hear you cleaning up your verbiage in regards to the results you discuss by saying 'theory' often you definitely have a narrative against intermittent fasting and from my understanding (please prove me wrong if I am here) you have not experimented with it long term so besides using WEAK STUDIES there is still no conclusive justification to the claim you yet again make that 'intermittent fasting (probably) isn't the most optimal thing for building muscle.' You don't disprove this claim, you just found another weak justification for your narrative.
...
here's another zealot of IF 😂@biolayne
good speaker, thanks
Dope Analysis
I've been reading studies and listening to scientists, athletes and nutritionists talk about this shit for 15 years. We are no where near a consensus. There's too many variables to control.
You go, doc!
Great video
If I eat 30-50 per meal that’s way over the 2.5 per kilogram of lean body mass for me ! Too much protein shoots my blood sugar up ! I’m 55 and menopausal so I do lift weights but I’m not trying to be a bulked body builder in competition!
Good info.
8-10% Seems pretty damn significant...?
In rats though, the change in humans could be less than 1%.
Is protein distribution evenly throughout the day important or just around workout, what about a intermittent fasting group where you take around 40g(or 30g) before and after workout and maybe 20g for a snack far from the workout, compared to someone taking evenly during the day the same total protein
fasting produces HGH which acts as protien. if you eat breakfast, even low carb, you're no longer in a fasted state and no longer producing higher amounts of HGH. This 100% needs to be taken into account as the studies you showed had breakfast for the uneven distributed testing.
Why didn’t the increased lean muscle mass lead to increased strength?
That's a good question!
I wonder if lean body mass was measured as a percentage of total body mass? I am wondering the same.
From what I've learned from working on commercial fishing boats, and the one powerlifting trainer I had, there is a diff between body building and strength training... bulky muscles do not equate to actual muscle strength.
Layne! How does digestion impact this? Foe example is there any benefit to eating 50g of meat protein mixed with a load of fibre as opposed to 50g of whey with water?
In another vidio I saw another expert or "expert" stating you cannot effectively lose fat and build muscle at the same time anyway. So that makes that point about intermittent fasting very much moot.
The dairy industry scientist (forgot his name) thinks that we need lots of protein in our first meal of the day to start muscle synthesis for the day. According to his theory, smaller amounts of protein in later meals of the day will continue muscle synthesis. In Lane's study, the people had their high protein meal in the evening. So we can't know if they had the same success as the every meal high protein group if they did their protein meal in the morning. It feels to me like the study was designed to manipulate us. I am no low protein advocate, I am unhappy with this study.
I wake up and take some BCAAs during my intermittent fasting window and while I do my morning workout (i like to train with just BCAAs instead of a full meal). Then a whey shake after workout and then first meal at 12 - 1pm. Hows that you think?
Technically you are breaking your fast with bcaas...
Essential amino acids would be better during a fast
@@MrSecyrb13 Yeah exactly, I take them morning with my caffiene to fuel my workouts before my first meal.
@@gminors BCAA you are wasting your money. Use EAA's.
BCAAs are a waste of time and money. Watch shredded sports sciences video on it. You're better just taking a pre workout with creatine to give you energy and fuel the workout.
Is there a way to estimate the protein cap with weight and gender?
So if we establish that, with an equal amount of protein intake per day, equal distribution is slightly superior than unequal distribution, than might slow digesting protein be superior to fast digestion?
Great video. Quick question I'm still new to the whole paying attention to what I eat right now I'm at a 40%carbs 30 %fats and 30%protein split i spread my meals over a whole day 7am to 10pm but my protein average is around 230 g per day i only weigh 180 i know this is way over 1g per lbs so my question is does consuming this much protein hurt you in the long run health wise or is it ok ?
If you’re working out and feeling satiated and well no reason to tone it done. 230g is still ok because I know some people who eat 250g (they weigh 250lbs tho). If you have no prior kidney problems everyone I follow says you can eat without any worry. But if you’re concerned or you’re not doing any weight training, then maybe tone it down to 200 at least. I’m 160 and eat 140-180g per day for instance.
@@monikaboshkova139 thanks I do weight train 6 days a week and have one rest day
@@monikaboshkova139 There is no correlation between eating a lot of protein and kidney problems, except for the people that already have issues with their kidneys. I cant believe people still talk about this topic when it was settled long time ago.
Well shit, guess I need to start eating something for breakfast. Any recommendations for high calorie not terrible tasting protein bars?
So I'm a 200lb man eating more than 200g of protein a day, sometimes it's evenly spread sometimes it's not. 🙈
Hi! Does Casein help prior to fasting compared Whey, during Intermittent fasting to tide over the lack of dietary protein intake during the fasting period?let's say for someone doing 16:8 hours for example.. As Casein supposedly keeps amino acid levels in the blood up for longer than Whey..
well explained. Maybe use some graphs to make videos more visual... just a suggestion
Made me go eat lunch, thanks brother!
Intermittent fasting at 14 to 16 hours a day is fine for building maximal muscle
Good to see Layne not wearing a Vneck once in a while
I like the hair
I really do enjoy beginning my workouts during the 13th hour of a fast. I guess I’ll say goodbye to that Mr. Olympia title.
I'm searching for your PDCAAS video, do you have one? I would think if anyone should, it would be you.
Then what is the optimal window
I been doing 3 meals about 50-60grams per meal
I think that completely fine.
How far apart does protein intake need to be? 1-3 hrs? How does your body know this as it takes many many hours to break down protein such as steak! Something doesn’t make sense in saying you can only eat 30g of protein at a time! Idk sounds sus
right know i cut out the middle morning and middle afternoon snacks… so i just go with breakfast, lunch and dinner. In this way i’m more able to keep the calorie lower. Usually i get 70g of protein at breakfast, 70g at lunch and 70g at dinner (i’m a 72/74Kg guy) so at the end of the day i have an high protein diet.
do you think i should spread my protein intake more or is it ok with 3 meals?
Lane,
Can trace proteins be added to the total proteins for protein synthesis when mixed with complete proteins?
Example:
I can drop 20grams (50g originally) from my egg white total bc the amount of bread I’ll be eating has 20g worth ?
In an attempt to lower calories, but still hitting 50g
Most bodybuilders have 80-100g of protein in the morning for a first meal.
I have a protein shake during my workout around 9.30 -10 and then have dinner at around 11.30.
Would that also be suboptimal?
genius dan bilzerian eats 5 * 30g of protein a day, greg plitt 1 meal + 4 shakes a day ♥
Is there a percentage ratio or protein ingested of which goes to splanchnic mass vs muscle mass? So for example if I’m calculating my protein requirements I should aim err on the side of greater intake per kg of LBM? Do plateaus in muscle gain have anything to do with your bodies requirements for protein beyond muscle mass? Thanks
For me it’s not rocket science - Body building is a sport that requires you to build muscle and reduce body fat...
Since the 70s body builders have always eaten multiple meals with evenly distributed macros within their meals... which the top sports scientists in bodybuilding have not changed....
Intermittent fasting is a Fad ...
Hey Layne, what about carb backloading?
Ok fine so what is the time between meals before the body can use more protein. If I eat a meal with 30g of protein and then eat another meal 2hrs later with 25g of protein is that enough time between meals for the body to process the last 30g of protein?
1-Japanese people are very skinny and shorter so 80 g of proteins is like 125 g for an Occidental
2-Intermittent Fasting is not a diet, but an alimentary regimen (a Diet is where you establish what you eat, a regime is how do you eat it)
PD: If Thomas Delauere would have made those mistakes you would be screaming and laughing at him...nobody is perfect or is always right
do you have video explaining about protein sparing?