Lmao, love this, though from personal experience I was a curious- or I guess by Christianity standards I would be considered “doubtful” against the word of god.
@@joshsmith9200I think the OP's statement applies in the case of no experience as well. In the video, they talked bout their friend reinterpreting past experiences though the lens of faith without having a "new" experience. One explanation for that may be that he was newly open to recognizing the presence of God, but another plausible one is confirmation bias. In the same way that people in other religions look at their lives and see the presence of their god(s), it's a possibility that their friend did the same.
3:12 Even as a Christian, I've always hated the portrayal of atheists as being "angry". Drop it. Not only is it not true, it's a very warranted response for a lot of people in their respective situation.
Same. I was a Christian for my entire childhood, and people saying that you must believe in something that you are angry at never made sense to me. There is a difference between being frustrated that the Christians around you refuse to entertain your issues with the faith and being in denial of some secret belief in God.
Alex has become more civil and grown some dignity in the way he presents himself due to his evolution and journey of multiple debates and conversations with both Theists and Atheists alike. He’s essentially become more well-mannered as a person while still holding his previous views per se. But yes, i guess he has a more open mind towards different interpretations of Theistic views etc, i’d imagine.
Ex-believer here. It is very difficult to genuinely believe an invisible beling actually exists based on our feelings. The actions of god is almost entirley in the hearts of people who have hit rock bottom, needy or drawn into repetitive rituals or rock concerts. This is too easy to attribute to psychology. My epiphany was a sudden realization that I was making all this up. The physical world and human psychology explains away religion for me. Like Alex, I would like to believe (again) but the argument from absence is insurmountable for me.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your story. I pray that you would come back to Jesus with a genuine faith and sense His love, grace, and forgiveness in a way you never have before. God bless!
"I came preaching to you nothing but Christ crucified and a display of the Spirit's power, so that your faith would not be based on human argument, but on God's power."
Few things: We’re angry at god, we don’t think he exists. We’re angry that people not only worship what we consider a fictional being, but such a clearly evil one. It’s like if everyone started not only claiming Voldemort was real, but that he was also the hero of the story. Belief isn’t a choice, so referencing people choosing what to believe doesn’t make sense, it’s passive. What’s the point of praying for something? Either the thing being prayed for is part of god’s plan, or it isn’t. Are you asking god to change his plan for you? Do you know better than him? And wouldn’t he know what you wanted anyway and already have decided whether you had it?
You seem to know of a caricature of God rather the God of the Bible. He is sovereign and allows to have the freedom of choice at the same time. Also, great Harry Potter reference…I am a big fan of the series! God bless!
Would you want your child to never ask you for anything even though you already have their day planned for them? Personally, I love when my daughter, for example, asks to eat something even though I’m already planning on making her food. It builds relationship and love.
@@joshsmith9200well I don’t know him personally (I don’t think anyone does) I just read the Bible. Tell the story of the flood to a child not yet indoctrinated and then them if it was done by a good guy or a bad guy. He knew what the world would be like, he knew what humans would do with ‘free will’ (which doesn’t really exist, does it?) and he made the earth that way. He could’ve made a world where people can still make their own choices but not harm other people. He could’ve made it where children can’t get cancer. He could’ve made a world without suffering. The fact that he didn’t is enough to show his true character.
@@dry777but is that really your answer? It’s nice when people ask for stuff they’re either already getting or already not? “Dear god, please save my child.” “Hahaha nooo way… fun that you asked though.”
“If your basis is experience, then you’re actually more about self service than self sacrifice” *full agreement from all* This is SO SO SO incredibly conceited and dismissive. What if somebody is willing to give everything, but they just want to be sure that they’re sacrificing everything for something that exists? What a horrendous thing to accuse people of. Sounds to me like these guys are just scared of God not existing so they belittle people who don’t have BLIND faith.
The point about a person building the foundation of their faith on experience being about self-service was not aimed toward non-Christians but Christians. The idea is if someone only wants to be with God to feel something then that is selfish and ultimately a shaky ground to build their faith on. We do not support blind faith but a reasonable faith. We will never claim to have all the answers but we do believe there are reasonable explanations that can one toward having faith in Jesus.
there's a difference between being open to experiences/arguments and take them seriously and confirmation bias. It can be a bit of a slippery slope but be open and honest. Don't neglect your rationality but don't reject the possibilities that you might not currently believe exist.
As an agnostic, I'd love to offer my perspective on the "Angry at something you don't believe in" point I think the best way to present it is in an analogy. Imagine you are told that you have a doctor who is supposed to prevent random illnesses from happening. You have no evidence of him, and you don't believe he exists. Now imagine everyone in your life is confident the doctor exists, you get cancer, and people start to say that you must have deserved to get cancer or else the doctor would have prevented it. You might say something along the lines of "If this doctor wants me to be healthy, why would giving me cancer even be an option? This guy must suck!" This isn't as much an admission that you believe the doctor exists as it is the statement that IF he exists, then you wouldn't like him.
To be honest, I was not making an argument from that statement. It was more of an off the hip remark but it seems like it has touched a nerve with some people. Appreciate you sharing your analogy. I agree with it.
Hey, solid convo! Couple of critiques - at one point, you talked about choosing to believe, but I don’t know if we can do this. I can’t make myself believe that (for example) Al Gore was president of the United States for a single solitary second on July 19th 2005. A sense of reality seems to be necessary to really form a true belief, and whether or not we experience that sense of reality seems involuntary. Also, you bring up the shroud of Turin, interestingly enough right after speaking about how physical evidence of god shouldn’t be necessary - it reminds me a bit of how you mentioned that atheists don’t believe in god but are angry at him, a sort of contradiction. I think that on balance the shroud is far more likely to be yet another medieval forgery, one amongst tens of thousands of fake relics produced during that time, and generally the scientific analysis of it seems to back that view up. Why stand by the shroud in the first place of physical evidence isn’t needed? Why would god allow such an artifact to exist in the first place when we have things like the story of Thomas touching the wounds to show that it isn’t necessary?
the latest research is opposite of what you say regarding the Shroud. The carbon dating was done on a corner that was a repair done in Medieval times. Lot's more updating things that cannot be explained away.
As someone who considers themselves an atheist, for me it’s hard to believe that some higher entity out there would cause me, as well as other human beings suffering, despite this the Christian God is, “All loving.” I accepted my atheism just late last year. I can’t tell you enough how much religion impacted me, I hated myself because I knew I was losing my faith, I didn’t want to live anymore because of it. I was only 13-14 year old when this happened. I am now 15 years old striving to educate myself on all aspects of life, which includes religion. This year has been the best year, I now feel so free because I let go of religion. To any Christians or Religious people who read this comment, stay curious don’t let others think for you. I would know.
The thing about «feeling the love from Jesus» is such a complicated topic if you’re gonna take everything into consideration. Are you feeling the love of God or are you feeling a self induced feeling (placebo) of what you «think» is God ? It’s pretty evident that our brain is able to fool ourselves way more than people are aware of. We see this with for example drugs, you can trick somebody into feeling high if you say you’ve slipped a pill into somebody’s drink. We can also feel a sense of love from somebody just by «thinking» that the other person loves you, even though he/she may actually not love you and is only playing you. So i wouldn’t say that a claim of «feeling» anything is truly reliable. Because the source of that feeling may not come from what you think and claim it does.
Starting out with strawmanning his reasoning for changing his handle from Cosmic Skeptic because he isn't a skeptic anymore is parhetic..... then it was suggested that he is angry at a god that he supposedly doesn't believe in..... meet us where we are people. The whole point of Alex saying what he said was to demonstrate that he is acting in good faith with you guys. He wouldn't discredit ANYONES experience, including your religious expriences.... but he respects ALL religions in that way. If you'd actually address what hes is talking about it might ACTUALLY convert some of us over to your side. But Christianity is in decline because of horrible tactics like this.... preaching to the choir is all that is happening here. Sad
Lol, not gonna lie, these three are so dumb it's kind of funny, so I say we should sub just to watch them have intellectual discussions about the sky being red when it's really blue. They're like Patrick star, Beavis, and Butthead. New reality tv.
So does Patrick breathe above water or do Beavis and Butthead breathe underwater? Scuba gear, hold their breath?… good heavens….your comment brings a considerable about of questions. Also, I believe “star” should be capitalized. Looking forward to clarity and context from an intellectual perspective…. TIA
“There are people that saw Jesus doing miracles in the flesh and still didn’t believe” That’s called a claim, kiddo, and it’s assumptions like this why nobody who doesn’t already agree with you takes these kinds of discussions seriously. “BUH MY BOOK SAY IT HAPPEN!” Isn’t evidence. I had a relationship with Jesus. I’m a confirmed Catholic that attended many many religious events, camps, etc throughout my life. I thought I had experiences with God, but in reality it’s just as likely that I felt those things because I wanted to. Add that to the horrible monster the Bible describes? Yeah, organized religion is a scam.
You are right that it is a claim and honestly, we did not do much to support that claim with arguments. The goal of this podcast was to have an unplanned and unfiltered conversation with one another about the role of experience in a person’s faith journey. I believe there is good evidence out there, but it is meaningless if you are too skeptical to consider any of it. It seems like Alex respects the Christian arguments now so maybe you should consider doing the same. Glad you listened in and God bless!
@@joshsmith9200I think the best option for Christians is to stick with the basis of faith. If you have evidence, then you don’t have faith, you just have good reason to believe. Do you honestly, seriously, genuinely think there is good evidence of these supernatural claims? If you say you have faith, that’s good enough for me, but evidence is evidence and we shouldn’t have different standards for it based on what we already believe.
@@chipsneak1348 I do genuinely believe there is good evidence that there is God and that His name is Jesus. It is important to note there is a difference between evidence and proof. I do not have 100% proof that Christianity is true but I do believe there a several lines of evidence that make my faith reasonable rather than blind. Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts and pray that you would genuinely experience the love of Jesus in your life.
@ can you give me a couple of examples? I agree, but I’d say the vast majority of people with faith found evidence to confirm their beliefs rather than being convinced by evidence. I thought his name was Jehovah, Yahweh or Allah? I can promise you if there was evidence for it I would believe. However, I do think the biblical god as a character is an extremely evil and sadistic entity, so I would not worship. Don’t bother praying, god’s already decided whether or not I’ll find Jesus, so praying in general is just pointless. I appreciate the thought though.
@@joshsmith9200 yes, if you wouldn’t mind providing an example of evidence. I would love to return to the fold immediately if I found convincing evidence. I’m looking, haven’t found it. And no “opening my heart to the Lord” type stuff. Been there, done that.
I literally couldn't keep watching the second you tried mocking him for "bEinG AnGeRy aT goD eVeN tHoUgH hE tHinKs hE dOesN't ExSisT!" immediately poisoning the well and immediately telling me "oh you don't actually listen to what this person says" and that you only engage with Atheism at the most BASIC levels! Odds are that you don't realize and never will comprehend that he is saying there are no "miracles" that convince a truly skeptic person, because advanced enough science will always look like a miracle and just because I personally understand it, doesn't mean that it's a miracle. If you want people to watch your videos, maybe don't be so clearly bigoted.
Sorry you feel that way. I probably could’ve worded it better. What I meant to communicate was that a stereotypical atheist is angry toward God or Christians which I think Alex did fir that mold when he was younger. Now he doesn’t. I know a lot of atheists that are very nice people and I am sure you are one of them. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great day!
@@joshsmith9200I watched a lot of his videos growing up. I don’t think it is truthful to say he “hated” God/Christians. If anything he mostly pitied. I think he’s gone from the old position that religion is all bad to a new position, religion has bad and good, but ever saying that Atheists are these “God or Christian haters” tells me that you don’t actually listen to what we are saying.
I love both of those books a lot. Read both in their entirety. The Bible is for sure pretty different. Even if you are an atheist, comparing the Bible to pure fiction is absolutely insane. The Bible contains more history in it than I think you are aware.
Interesting, as soon as you force yourself to believe, you start finding confirmation for that belief. I think there’s a name for that…
It’s called confirmation bias which is why we said experience should not be the foundation of one’s faith :)
Lmao, love this, though from personal experience I was a curious- or I guess by Christianity standards I would be considered “doubtful” against the word of god.
@@joshsmith9200I think the OP's statement applies in the case of no experience as well.
In the video, they talked bout their friend reinterpreting past experiences though the lens of faith without having a "new" experience.
One explanation for that may be that he was newly open to recognizing the presence of God, but another plausible one is confirmation bias.
In the same way that people in other religions look at their lives and see the presence of their god(s), it's a possibility that their friend did the same.
3:12 Even as a Christian, I've always hated the portrayal of atheists as being "angry". Drop it. Not only is it not true, it's a very warranted response for a lot of people in their respective situation.
Same. I was a Christian for my entire childhood, and people saying that you must believe in something that you are angry at never made sense to me.
There is a difference between being frustrated that the Christians around you refuse to entertain your issues with the faith and being in denial of some secret belief in God.
Alex has become more civil and grown some dignity in the way he presents himself due to his evolution and journey of multiple debates and conversations with both Theists and Atheists alike. He’s essentially become more well-mannered as a person while still holding his previous views per se. But yes, i guess he has a more open mind towards different interpretations of Theistic views etc, i’d imagine.
Ex-believer here. It is very difficult to genuinely believe an invisible beling actually exists based on our feelings. The actions of god is almost entirley in the hearts of people who have hit rock bottom, needy or drawn into repetitive rituals or rock concerts. This is too easy to attribute to psychology. My epiphany was a sudden realization that I was making all this up. The physical world and human psychology explains away religion for me. Like Alex, I would like to believe (again) but the argument from absence is insurmountable for me.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your story. I pray that you would come back to Jesus with a genuine faith and sense His love, grace, and forgiveness in a way you never have before. God bless!
4:19 that impression was spot on 💀
Keep up the good work guys! Love the pod!
Thank you 🤝
"I came preaching to you nothing but Christ crucified and a display of the Spirit's power, so that your faith would not be based on human argument, but on God's power."
Amen!
So, based on something for which there is zero evidence? Great.
A book says a thing...... *YAWN*
Few things:
We’re angry at god, we don’t think he exists. We’re angry that people not only worship what we consider a fictional being, but such a clearly evil one. It’s like if everyone started not only claiming Voldemort was real, but that he was also the hero of the story.
Belief isn’t a choice, so referencing people choosing what to believe doesn’t make sense, it’s passive.
What’s the point of praying for something? Either the thing being prayed for is part of god’s plan, or it isn’t. Are you asking god to change his plan for you? Do you know better than him? And wouldn’t he know what you wanted anyway and already have decided whether you had it?
Lmao, first time Im hearing the last argument. Fun view on praying
You seem to know of a caricature of God rather the God of the Bible. He is sovereign and allows to have the freedom of choice at the same time. Also, great Harry Potter reference…I am a big fan of the series! God bless!
Would you want your child to never ask you for anything even though you already have their day planned for them?
Personally, I love when my daughter, for example, asks to eat something even though I’m already planning on making her food. It builds relationship and love.
@@joshsmith9200well I don’t know him personally (I don’t think anyone does) I just read the Bible. Tell the story of the flood to a child not yet indoctrinated and then them if it was done by a good guy or a bad guy. He knew what the world would be like, he knew what humans would do with ‘free will’ (which doesn’t really exist, does it?) and he made the earth that way. He could’ve made a world where people can still make their own choices but not harm other people. He could’ve made it where children can’t get cancer. He could’ve made a world without suffering. The fact that he didn’t is enough to show his true character.
@@dry777but is that really your answer? It’s nice when people ask for stuff they’re either already getting or already not?
“Dear god, please save my child.”
“Hahaha nooo way… fun that you asked though.”
Great pod!
“If your basis is experience, then you’re actually more about self service than self sacrifice” *full agreement from all*
This is SO SO SO incredibly conceited and dismissive. What if somebody is willing to give everything, but they just want to be sure that they’re sacrificing everything for something that exists?
What a horrendous thing to accuse people of. Sounds to me like these guys are just scared of God not existing so they belittle people who don’t have BLIND faith.
The point about a person building the foundation of their faith on experience being about self-service was not aimed toward non-Christians but Christians. The idea is if someone only wants to be with God to feel something then that is selfish and ultimately a shaky ground to build their faith on. We do not support blind faith but a reasonable faith. We will never claim to have all the answers but we do believe there are reasonable explanations that can one toward having faith in Jesus.
there's a difference between being open to experiences/arguments and take them seriously and confirmation bias. It can be a bit of a slippery slope but be open and honest. Don't neglect your rationality but don't reject the possibilities that you might not currently believe exist.
Always interesting watching 3 dudes who get high and think they have insightful conversations try to start a podcast.
Believe it or not, I have actually never been high before
As an agnostic, I'd love to offer my perspective on the "Angry at something you don't believe in" point
I think the best way to present it is in an analogy. Imagine you are told that you have a doctor who is supposed to prevent random illnesses from happening. You have no evidence of him, and you don't believe he exists.
Now imagine everyone in your life is confident the doctor exists, you get cancer, and people start to say that you must have deserved to get cancer or else the doctor would have prevented it.
You might say something along the lines of
"If this doctor wants me to be healthy, why would giving me cancer even be an option? This guy must suck!"
This isn't as much an admission that you believe the doctor exists as it is the statement that IF he exists, then you wouldn't like him.
To be honest, I was not making an argument from that statement. It was more of an off the hip remark but it seems like it has touched a nerve with some people. Appreciate you sharing your analogy. I agree with it.
Hey, solid convo!
Couple of critiques - at one point, you talked about choosing to believe, but I don’t know if we can do this. I can’t make myself believe that (for example) Al Gore was president of the United States for a single solitary second on July 19th 2005. A sense of reality seems to be necessary to really form a true belief, and whether or not we experience that sense of reality seems involuntary.
Also, you bring up the shroud of Turin, interestingly enough right after speaking about how physical evidence of god shouldn’t be necessary - it reminds me a bit of how you mentioned that atheists don’t believe in god but are angry at him, a sort of contradiction. I think that on balance the shroud is far more likely to be yet another medieval forgery, one amongst tens of thousands of fake relics produced during that time, and generally the scientific analysis of it seems to back that view up. Why stand by the shroud in the first place of physical evidence isn’t needed? Why would god allow such an artifact to exist in the first place when we have things like the story of Thomas touching the wounds to show that it isn’t necessary?
Thanks for sharing! Appreciate you 👊
the latest research is opposite of what you say regarding the Shroud. The carbon dating was done on a corner that was a repair done in Medieval times. Lot's more updating things that cannot be explained away.
As someone who considers themselves an atheist, for me it’s hard to believe that some higher entity out there would cause me, as well as other human beings suffering, despite this the Christian God is, “All loving.” I accepted my atheism just late last year. I can’t tell you enough how much religion impacted me, I hated myself because I knew I was losing my faith, I didn’t want to live anymore because of it. I was only 13-14 year old when this happened. I am now 15 years old striving to educate myself on all aspects of life, which includes religion. This year has been the best year, I now feel so free because I let go of religion.
To any Christians or Religious people who read this comment, stay curious don’t let others think for you.
I would know.
The thing about «feeling the love from Jesus» is such a complicated topic if you’re gonna take everything into consideration.
Are you feeling the love of God or are you feeling a self induced feeling (placebo) of what you «think» is God ? It’s pretty evident that our brain is able to fool ourselves way more than people are aware of. We see this with for example drugs, you can trick somebody into feeling high if you say you’ve slipped a pill into somebody’s drink.
We can also feel a sense of love from somebody just by «thinking» that the other person loves you, even though he/she may actually not love you and is only playing you.
So i wouldn’t say that a claim of «feeling» anything is truly reliable. Because the source of that feeling may not come from what you think and claim it does.
Starting out with strawmanning his reasoning for changing his handle from Cosmic Skeptic because he isn't a skeptic anymore is parhetic..... then it was suggested that he is angry at a god that he supposedly doesn't believe in..... meet us where we are people. The whole point of Alex saying what he said was to demonstrate that he is acting in good faith with you guys. He wouldn't discredit ANYONES experience, including your religious expriences.... but he respects ALL religions in that way. If you'd actually address what hes is talking about it might ACTUALLY convert some of us over to your side. But Christianity is in decline because of horrible tactics like this.... preaching to the choir is all that is happening here. Sad
Praying for Alex!
That’ll help
@@chipsneak1348😂😂
@@chipsneak1348 Best idea ever, I agree.
Great podcast guys 🙏
Very interesting 1:30
Want to experience God. Look outside. Also ask God He listens to all His children
Lol, not gonna lie, these three are so dumb it's kind of funny, so I say we should sub just to watch them have intellectual discussions about the sky being red when it's really blue. They're like Patrick star, Beavis, and Butthead. New reality tv.
😂
Very funny comment, the biology stud! Thank you for your perspective and subscription. Looking forward to your next comment 🫶
So does Patrick breathe above water or do Beavis and Butthead breathe underwater? Scuba gear, hold their breath?… good heavens….your comment brings a considerable about of questions. Also, I believe “star” should be capitalized. Looking forward to clarity and context from an intellectual perspective…. TIA
“There are people that saw Jesus doing miracles in the flesh and still didn’t believe”
That’s called a claim, kiddo, and it’s assumptions like this why nobody who doesn’t already agree with you takes these kinds of discussions seriously. “BUH MY BOOK SAY IT HAPPEN!” Isn’t evidence.
I had a relationship with Jesus. I’m a confirmed Catholic that attended many many religious events, camps, etc throughout my life. I thought I had experiences with God, but in reality it’s just as likely that I felt those things because I wanted to. Add that to the horrible monster the Bible describes? Yeah, organized religion is a scam.
You are right that it is a claim and honestly, we did not do much to support that claim with arguments. The goal of this podcast was to have an unplanned and unfiltered conversation with one another about the role of experience in a person’s faith journey. I believe there is good evidence out there, but it is meaningless if you are too skeptical to consider any of it. It seems like Alex respects the Christian arguments now so maybe you should consider doing the same. Glad you listened in and God bless!
@@joshsmith9200I think the best option for Christians is to stick with the basis of faith. If you have evidence, then you don’t have faith, you just have good reason to believe. Do you honestly, seriously, genuinely think there is good evidence of these supernatural claims?
If you say you have faith, that’s good enough for me, but evidence is evidence and we shouldn’t have different standards for it based on what we already believe.
@@chipsneak1348 I do genuinely believe there is good evidence that there is God and that His name is Jesus. It is important to note there is a difference between evidence and proof. I do not have 100% proof that Christianity is true but I do believe there a several lines of evidence that make my faith reasonable rather than blind. Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts and pray that you would genuinely experience the love of Jesus in your life.
@ can you give me a couple of examples? I agree, but I’d say the vast majority of people with faith found evidence to confirm their beliefs rather than being convinced by evidence. I thought his name was Jehovah, Yahweh or Allah?
I can promise you if there was evidence for it I would believe. However, I do think the biblical god as a character is an extremely evil and sadistic entity, so I would not worship.
Don’t bother praying, god’s already decided whether or not I’ll find Jesus, so praying in general is just pointless. I appreciate the thought though.
@@joshsmith9200 yes, if you wouldn’t mind providing an example of evidence. I would love to return to the fold immediately if I found convincing evidence. I’m looking, haven’t found it. And no “opening my heart to the Lord” type stuff. Been there, done that.
Sky DADDY is real btw
Amen! 🙏
Alex usually steelmans arguments. He does it even with people he disagrees with.
I wish more people would do that.
I literally couldn't keep watching the second you tried mocking him for "bEinG AnGeRy aT goD eVeN tHoUgH hE tHinKs hE dOesN't ExSisT!" immediately poisoning the well and immediately telling me "oh you don't actually listen to what this person says" and that you only engage with Atheism at the most BASIC levels! Odds are that you don't realize and never will comprehend that he is saying there are no "miracles" that convince a truly skeptic person, because advanced enough science will always look like a miracle and just because I personally understand it, doesn't mean that it's a miracle. If you want people to watch your videos, maybe don't be so clearly bigoted.
Sorry you feel that way. I probably could’ve worded it better. What I meant to communicate was that a stereotypical atheist is angry toward God or Christians which I think Alex did fir that mold when he was younger. Now he doesn’t. I know a lot of atheists that are very nice people and I am sure you are one of them. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great day!
@@joshsmith9200I watched a lot of his videos growing up. I don’t think it is truthful to say he “hated” God/Christians. If anything he mostly pitied. I think he’s gone from the old position that religion is all bad to a new position, religion has bad and good, but ever saying that Atheists are these “God or Christian haters” tells me that you don’t actually listen to what we are saying.
Harry Potter is a book of far-fetched stories and supernatural tales. So is the bible.
They should be treated the same
I love both of those books a lot. Read both in their entirety. The Bible is for sure pretty different. Even if you are an atheist, comparing the Bible to pure fiction is absolutely insane. The Bible contains more history in it than I think you are aware.