The ‘mythical’ vanished island scientists think is real | ABC News
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- Опубликовано: 9 май 2024
- The mythical story about the lost island of Teonimenu has been told for generations in central Solomon Islands. Scientists now believe this oral history is actually a credible record of a sudden, catastrophic event which caused the island to disappear several hundred years ago. They believe they’ve pinpointed the exact location of Teonimenu and what likely caused it to sink into the ocean forever.
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A really well made piece on an interesting subject! I'd like to see more stuff like this.
You need to investigate Hy Brasil next. An island off the west coast of Ireland that is shown on old maps, and even on old globes in the Vatican. The island does not exist today
Fascinating. Highlights the importance of oral tradition and culture.
Kernel of truth, but lots of romantic nonsense thrown in.
@@Christina-sf4pysounds like life mane
@@Christina-sf4py Eurocentric
@@Christina-sf4pywhat's romantic about losing an island? You're weird
@@shawnlinton4202reeeeeee
Tolkien said that many old wives tales are stories the wise should have remembered
Some of the aboriginal oral history has been proven to based in fact. One story (I think in Queensland) has been shown to be telling the story of a specfic sea flood some thousands of years ago. What fascinates me is how little the stories seem to change over so many generation's that actual history can be found and proven.
It’s amazing how oral traditions can keep knowledge going in one form or another for possibly up to tens of thousands of years! It’s sad to lose so much of that oral history. There’s a fascinating story on the ABC website with the title:
“Research findings back up Aboriginal legend on origin of Central Australian palm trees”
The scientific world is stunned by research which backs an Aboriginal legend about how palm trees got to Central Australia.
Several years ago Tasmanian ecologist David Bowman did DNA tests on palm seeds from the outback and near Darwin.
A striking example of how traditional ecological knowledge can inform and enhance scientific research.
The results led him to conclude the seeds were carried to the Central Desert by humans up to 30,000 years ago.
Professor Bowman read an Aboriginal legend recorded in 1894 by pioneering German anthropologist and missionary Carl Strehlow, which was only recently translated, describing the "gods from the north" bringing the seeds to Palm Valley.
Generation's? Who taught you how to use apostrophes? They don't make words plural.
@@slappy8941is that what you took from that comment huh…
Because the same story told as a culture over an entire population probably has self correction mechanisms. It will tend to maintain a structure similar to the original, as people retell it, correcting the details with each other. It's a stable self correcting narrative which would be an interesting area of study for mathmaticians, with ramifications into noise theory and probability. We see this with the flood and the Atlantis myths and the similar stories and timelines over various cultures. This mythical historical transmission mechanism is actually larger in scope than any one culture.
@@slappy8941 at least you get it 😂
It’s a balance between “science corroborating oral history”, and “oral history informing scientific inquiry”. Ownership of the “truth” is often the basis of moral power and determinism. It cuts both ways and needs to be subject to constant challenge to avoid dogma.
I use big words on RUclips to sound intelligent.
"moral power"? LOL. Wut?
@@Nick9Three... mad because you don't know any "big" words?
Absolutely brilliant comment. I am going to plagiarize it often! Thank you!
Aboriginal Australians have oral legend about land that is now the Coral Sea, with detailed information about its features which are now reefs, that means that this information has been carried for at least 12,000 years, so a few hundred years is easy.
The island's were named Mu and there were islands that existed between Hawaii and Rapanui or better known as Easter island.
@@jimi8393 Yeah there’s no basis for that in reality.
@@rlt9492 in Maori culture, Rapanui culture and also in the epic of Gilgamesh which are 4,000 year old cuneiform clay tablets. The beings that already lived there were advanced spiritually but not in technology.
Also they were at war with the gods and the gods won and ruled over earth when it was called Atlantis
Also Zeus or Deus or Enlil was making the attacks on Mu which caused the islands to sink
Many people don't dismiss biblical stories why should we dismiss oral Histories of Pacific nations?
Hebrew myth is just that
Hindu mythology uses ridiculous numbers, so it's difficult to understand what they mean. But on the other hand, I believe it's Mayans who recorded battles so accurately that they never found two claiming to be a victory at the same battle. It depends on the culture, but i think generally indigenous stories are a great place to start looking for archaeological clues.
A similar natural event highly likely happened to Hawaiki. Can't be found on a map yet my ancestors voyaged to Aotearoa from there.
Hawaiki is Taiwan
No that was a bold claim that was made in 2005 based on a genetic study that confirmed through genetics that approximately 5000 years ago the ancestors of Māori were closely related to indigenous Taiwanese people and therefore the descendants of both are distant cousins..it didn't have any actual evidence to conclude Taiwan "is" Hawaiki which is why it is simply a bold claim..what the study did prove was that the ancestors of modern day Polynesians including Māori migrated to Hawaiki from the Taiwan area approximately 2 and half thousands years ago. The exact location of Hawaiki has never been officially identified and confirmed, however oral history suggests the location is most likely somewhere in the vicinity of what is known today as French Polynesia but it still hasn't been found....even in the modern world. Which points to the logic behind the occurrence of a probable natural event sometime after the voyages to Aotearoa 600-700 years ago.
@@tainedonovan4983 there is no other Urheimat for my people, our ancestors sailed from Taiwan across various archipelagos until they made it to Tahiti from which Maori, Rapa Nui, and my people the Kanaka arrived to their current homelands
Thats why various versions of Hawaiki are all over thr pacific: ‘Avaiki, Havai’i, Savai’i, Hawai’i, Kahiki, Hiva, etc all share a common root
It is agreed that Taiwan is definitely the original location of the world that the ancestors of Polynesians came from however that migration happened at least two and a half thousand years prior to the ancestors of Māori (my ancestors ) voyaging in Waka to Aotearoa, the voyages of my ancestors happened within the last thousand years approximately 600-700 years ago where they came from Hawaiki... they were descendants of those who came from what is now known as Taiwan. Taiwan has a written history of people from china having contact with Taiwan indigenous by the time of the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) which is a time frame in which a number of my ancestors hadn't left Hawaiki yet. there is no oral history of them having contact with the Chinese and no written history in China of the Chinese having contact with them...all of the above indicates that Hawaiki and Taiwan are two different places. Both of our ancestors voyaged across the Pacific and reached an island somewhere in what is now known as French Polynesia that they called Hawaiki, they math works out that they lived there for many many many generations before tribal wars broke out which lead to another great migration across the Pacific. With more studies and evidence to back it up I would get behind and agree with the Possibility that IF Hawaiki still exists it could be what is now known as Taihiti as its in French Polynesia, Hawaiki is also sometimes associated with the Tahitian island Ra‘iātea (Rangiātea, in Māori) Hawaiki and Taihiti could be the the same place. However If it doesn't exist anymore it has to be the result of a natural event.
I used to work in bathymetric survey.
Seeing the reporter draw on the bathy chart with red Sharpy made me flinch 😫
Because there exists only one bathy chart and now it's ruined forever?
@@TheWanderingFinneganyoure a cornball
those charts are expensive to buy, I searched online and think that particular one is SLB305- San Cristobel Island to Malaita Island and is ranging from AU$40 through to USD$55 depending where you buy from.
Anyone using nautical charts for navigation would typically protect them at all costs from spilling food, drink and other dirt or liquid on them and any notes would only be drawn lightly with pencil. The only permanent writing would be transcribing official "Notice to Mariners" to mark where new rocks or shoals or other dangers have been officially surveyed.
Drawing on it with a permanent marker like that is pretty much like using a nail to scratch a circle around something of interest on the screen of your GPS :(
using science to corroborate oral history is a thought provoking cocept
My partner is a geneticist and has worked with the people of Pukapuka. She found some very interesting results and relayed the findings back to them. An elder told her the story of how their people first came to the island and it lined up with the results of the research. Being Pacific Islanders ourselves, and raised with oral traditions, we found it so cool confirming an old Polynesian story with science.
It’s a great combination
Inbreeding and seismic myths are related? Interesting
@@davepowell7168youre white. Youre inbred
2:30 you know 9 meters isn't that deep you could dive the location with cameras and find it
Of course they know its there, its use as a lived on island is what remained unknown
I agree that we should consider the stories of our forebears!
I reckon the disappearance of Atlantis (an even older memory of our ancestors) had more to do with the isostatic (post-glacial) rebounding of the land under the Laurentide Ice Sheet. As the ice melted, the rebounding could have caused isostatic depression or some sort of of corresponding drawing-down force on the Mid-Atlantic. Simply put, with the great weight removed, the north of North America went up and the Azores area went down. Atlantis disappeared not so much from sea level rise but from land level fall. Maybe this happened slowly, but - if the stories are to be believed - it could have happened suddenly if the North American rebound was also sudden, as it would be from a hypothesised comet impact on the glacier.
It was strange commenting on an ABC video. How gracious of you to enable comments!
The part of the story that mentioned the giant waves backs up the geologic slippage. The vast quantity of falling debris creates a surge of water. If the island came apart in eight breaks, there would have been eight big waves of water surging up.
So interestimg how a myth or legend gets created. The whole backstory on how it got sunken, is such an insite to how myths are created.
A memory and a oral story. Are not the same. For it to be a memory. Someone must have survived it to remember it.
Great work
Excellent video
Great story, good work restoring the history
Or the island's disappearance could be explained by several tsunami.
Fascinating video.❤
Finally get to comment on a abc news video
I adore the ABC - what an amazing piece. Thanks.
Fake news is easier to spot after we have learnt the alphabet
Thank you Tony for the cultural explanation and Professor Nunn for giving us a scientific perspective
Some Maori settlers (NZ) came directly from islands that sank or were sinking.
Are you referring to the mythical land of Hawaiki?
@@bugmouthready529 Hawaiki is not a mythical place but the lands Polynesians lived in before settling the Pacific. However to answer your question, maybe.
I know some lands sank, but I think Hawaiki still stands.
The Hawaiki my ancestors migrated from was destroyed by war. My ancestors being some of the last to leave before our lands were eventually lost . I think nowadays all lands Maori moved from are considered Hawaiki but this is not the case traditionally. There are also 3 Hawaiki so that adds complication (Hawaiki's roa, nui, pamamao)
But know of people moving to these lands because theirs were suffering war, famine, disease, poverty, seeking shelter, seeking family and also the sinking of their lands. It doesn't help we named most lands we moved to after those we left. Hawaiki, Hawaii, Savaii, Havai etc
@@damink_8508there is a "Ava'itii" and "Va'itii" -even a hyphenated form of "Maui", high up in the mountains of Papua New Guinea, but it's not in Austronesian territory.
My father's people are Papuans who don't speak a language related to Polynesians, the culture is different and we don't look mixed, yet we have Polynesian in our DNA. Maybe it was a settlement long ago, because place names are not randomly chosen.
I have refused to believe long ago that white men were the first "outsiders" in the remote regions of Papua New Guinea.
Beautiful people. Thank God they made it off the island. Such a tale to pass on. And sharing it with all of us.
Haven't cried in a long time. Thanks Dolly.
The locals retain the memory of the RECENT disappearances of islands,
but no one remembers when the entire Pacific Islands was ONE LAND MASS
and then broke apart.
Great to see Professor Paddy Nunn still doing what he loves!
Shangrila shambala must be research
Facinating.
They might want to send a Sonar Device down to where the island is as I think there is more going on than what is told, like a giant lava tube and such
Out of curiosity and nothing else. Why didn't scientist believe oral stories. Facts for example easy ones.
1. We know mount Gambia an Mount Shank use to be inhabited by Aboriginals. They stated what happened in their oral history. An we know Mount Gambier errupted about 10,000 years ago an Mount Shank Errupted about 5000 years ago. Mount Shank being the most recent in Australian history on the mainland.
2. We know 13,000 years ago there was a melting of the ice age which caused a massive world wide flood. This drowned Dwarka a Indian religiously important city an every culture on Earth had a flood story even the Aboriginals. So we know this actually happened.
3. We know a City called Atlantis existed at one point was likely a trade island in the Greek archipelago which probably errupted an flattened the island leaving no trace of its existence. Yes i will conceed the story puts it closer to Africa but what African city has ever had a Greek name so i don't agree with that.
4. Troy once thought a Myth proven to exist.
5. Jericho thought o be a myth proven to exist an have its walls crumbled or been climbed over.
So again with all this evidence showing over 5 cases or stories proven true. Which is a gold standard in evidence based practice. How can anyone dismiss a story told in oral tradition.
Self importance
Unless they find something there they don’t want to see of course
Don't believe that it sank at once. And therefore people left before it desappeared.
Interesting. 🤔
Legends and myths are our remote history . We must be respectful and aware
I didn't know a island could sink. I thought volcano
"I think there's a tendency for western science and historians to dismiss these things as kind of fantasy as myth or legend"
Completely incorrect in Modernity. Maybe historically people would dismiss local legend and myth, But nowdays the FIRST thing historians do in those parts of the world is seek out the stories and oral histories for analysis.
Almost all Historians agree that Myth and Legend can often be rooted in reality, There's a whole science called Comparative mythology that's been employed for decades as a tool for analysis and academic purposes.
The great tragedy about the Solomons is much of the Oral History was lost during the period where the Europeans pillaged the islands for Slaves. It's essential that those remaining stories are sought out before they disappear.
Contact between Pacific islanders with Europeans certainly had its drawbacks, but it wasn't all bad. For one, Europeans often codified languages into written form. This allowed languages and oral traditions that might have otherwise died out to be preserved. The Chinese have a saying: "The faintest ink is superior to the strongest memory".
Well if you found it it isnt that lost anymore
Does that mean the Solomon Islands are unstable?
Probably some of the smaller islands yeah.
Im the kind of guy that could live in a culture like this
This is why i trust oral traditional cultures more than contemporary ones.
Many native American tribes had the oral history that earth is on a turtle shell.
A lot of Islands will desappear very soon.
A Subduction.
The Darma initiative is responsible for most disappearing islands.
Can you do one on the ancient aryan story of Atlantis please?
Atlantis is in Africa Mauritania Adjacent to the "Atlas" mountains.
Aryans we’re not originally white
Perhaps this is what happened to Atlantis.
Atlantis was destroyed due to greed and forgoing the gods
Also there's reason to believe Atlantis sunk around the time of Moses and the exodus
Atlantis is already found. Eye of the Sahara desert
@@HMNNO not according to Plato
@@heatherturner2366 It matches a lot of what plato says though and there's lots of evidence and signs it was right there
If it's FOUND, it's not MYTHICAL, it's FACTUAL.
Simple ideas for the simple-minded.
Thats wacky. Nine meters to Six kilometers. Im American so whats that like 3 cubits to a half a parsec?
So narcissistic to kill everyone just because your wife left you!!!
Lmao right as soon as it got to that point i was like wonder why she left
also rising sea levels.
But no, let's make a story blaming a woman for infidelity - women, so powerful they can control the sea levels of Earth!
fasinating!
Oral histories are often ridiculed, but this sex scandal might be within days of disaster thus attributed!
wonder what deviations or other stories there are.
I’m surprised they didn’t try to blame this on climate change. 🙄
It's ABC Australia not CNN
That would mean they would have to admit climate change is a natural phenomenon and not created by man. It doesn’t fit their narrative. No cars or cow farms back then.
If only the rest of the ABC had some substance to it..
More of this and less propaganda please. oh wait..
One piece
must have been global warming
From Africa 🇬🇭 greetings to our Ancestral cousin's the aboriginals who were the very first explorers from the books of exodus..
?? 😂😂😂 neither Africans or People in the solomon islands have anything to do with the book of Exodus.
In the days of the Exodus Egypt was the empire involved... Egyptians aren't Black or even dark skinned.... only further south was a smaller empire called the Nubian.. they where black...
The Jews of the Exodus were the descendants of Abraham who came from Ur in Chaldea.. the area of Babylon... once again not Africans, or black... but Chaldean then made (by God) Into the Jews. Or the name Hebrew - which derives from the place God led Abraham to in the promised land and established covenant and that was a place called Hebron.
So this isn't a racist post... but just historical fact... Jews weren't white or black but Middle Eastern....
Egyptians were not white or black, but middle eastern.
Europeans didnr believe because it wasn't ment for them.
So is this where the missing Malaysian flight landed ?
China building military base there soon.
It’s always over a woman ain’t it. 😂
They dont vanished but rejected collonials country😂
wut?
You cant loose an island, nor find a lost one 😂
The story sounds fake its as if sank overnight.. Its very gradual to a point that u can have enough time to leave safely
Western science finally catching up 🙄 still told with an under current of condescension, with the added total and complete disrespect of absolutely zero attempt to pronounce place names in our languages correctly.
Unfortunately it's often quite difficult for some languages to pronounce words from another
@@darkbearmoon not true in this case. Each sound can be re-created from sounds used in the english language. And it is very apparent when people make absolutely no attempt like this guy.
@channelKJM Nobody cares. Pronunciation isnt important.
You know it, these people are insufferable
Our science in the United States sadly has strictly become Human Secularism... its all about anti God or anti Supernatural, or anti reason...
Yet everything they base their so called world view on is completely theoretical... it's absolute hypocrisy.
It's called the act of God, he can do all and he can destroy all that he's created, always believe in the Holy Father, God bless all of us in the world we call home together ✝️🇺🇸❤️
....and as always, it's the woman's fault, lol....
Scientists need to pay more attention to oral history. The Innu knew for centuries where the ships of the Franklin expedition sank, and told tales of it in their oral history, but it wasn't until quite recently that The Erebus and The Terror were found, thanks to scientists finally listening.
The Whole World reports such an Island that vanishes & not surprising & God Bless Australia & New Zealand & Everyone who Loves Jesus Christ Who Wants to Save ❤
Maybe that island sunk not by a curse but a tsunami like event