I saw this in person this weekend, and the work was really impressive. Nice, bright colors, details were reasonably sharp, and overall an amazing conversion. I enjoy this type of content... sort of an "insider look" at how these things work. If you'd like the video running side by side or PIP for comparison purposes, let me know.
My dad was a manager at a factory that was opposite from the Sony CRT plant. One day he came home with a top of the line 60hz RGB scart Trinitron for the living room. That thing hosted all my imported Japanese consoles over the years. I really miss that TV man.
Quoting - "They [Sony PVMs] needed to be precision instruments, which is why they cost so much money". 80% agreed. But as someone working in broadcast/TV/film, I can tell you now a lot of the cost of Sony equipment is simply because Sony can get away with charging what they do. The same thing happens today. You can buy a Sony OLED for the cost of a car (we have displays in production that cost $35K or more), or a different brand for 1/10th the price at 90% the quality. Some of that cost goes into the "law of diminishing returns" on components and increased quality. Some of it is just because there's a Sony badge on the front. Same goes for any recognizable brand - Apple today, or Nike/Reebok in the 80s and 90s. Dollar cost doesn't always equal the actual improved value of the product, especially in markets with little-to-no competition, or where hyped brand recognition keeps the perceived cost high. Consider that late model PC CRTs have the similar dot pitches or line counts as PVMs and BVMs for a fraction of the price (I'd challenge anyone to tell the difference between a 240p@120Hz 21" PC monitor, and a 240p@60Hz ~20" BVM with the naked eye) . Also, arcade operators have been turning to Chinese and Mexican tubes and chassis for years, as well as consumer TVs for parts for ages. While certainly nowhere near the dot pitch of a PC CRT monitor pr PVM/BVM, it's more than adequate for commercial gaming applications. If you want to see a huge array of RGB/SCART screenshots from the 80s and 90s, check out British magazines like "Mean Machines". They took screenshots exclusively on RGB/SCART televisions with real film cameras for all of their 8 and 16bit reviews - www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/ . You can see the quality is amazing, and it's what any Europeans would have considered "normal" back in those days.
NiggelMyNiggel Mean Machines, Mean Machines Sega and CVG (Computer and Video Games) were all similar teams. Many of them work for Retro Gamer Magazine, a modern UK print magazine. All worth reading for a different perspective. I'm in Australia, and growing up the UK had more influence on gaming here than the US (EGM, GamePro, etc) due to the PAL relationship. That's why RGB gaming and SCART is less foreign here too. Always worth a smile when people discover it 30+ years later.
Funny that your comment mentions my almost a year "struggle" with CRTs (in a "cheapo" way XD). When I got my Nintendo Wii, I picked it up simply for the fact that it could emulate most retro consoles, and at 240p nonetheless, with component cables for the best quality (it can offer). My first hunt for a display was of course a CRT, since I knew already that it would give a better picture for old games. And my eyes were on none other than the SONY brand, because the whole internet say they're the best. The one I ended up taking was a 29" SONY WEGA that I payed almost 1.5x more than my second option, that at the time was a similar LG. But when I finally set it all up, I regrettably perceived too late that the tube was dying. The convergence was off in the corners, and it gave a pinkish hue when brightness was over 50. I was pissed at myself for paying more for something that was about to get scrapped, but I ended "fooling" someone else by selling it and getting some of the money back XD... Actually, I didn't fool the guy, because the first time I used the TV it was with composite cables and of course the little defects would be that more pronounced, and the guy that bought it used component cables for his custom arcade board, which really showed what that tube was capable of... I still regret it a little for parting ways with it, though (maybe a way of making myself better for practically still fooling the guy XD). But moving along, after the SONY fiasco, turns out I found a similar 29" LG tube that was my second option, and so I grabbed that. How perfect that tube is (for my current standards now)... I payed around 70% of the price I payed for the SONY (which now I can only find the same model for around double the original price I payed), but the quality is impressive. I always had luck with LG displays, and given my later CRT acquisition I'm telling, that's true. Almost a month later, I broke my perfectly fine LCD PC monitor, that was only 2 years. By luck, I came across a 2006 LG CRT monitor, and holy! As cheap as it was, I feel bad for the person that sold it not knowing of its "hidden" capabilities. Being a retro "advocate" (of sorts), I can say that late PC monitors are the holy grail of retro emulation. Compared to my 29" tube with component cables, games look at least double as sharp, and also by the high amount of resolutions and refresh rates it's capable of displaying, the small variations in quality settings, aspect ratios, scanline thickness, etc., are so vast, it makes it the best thing I ever bought, like, ever! I was able to set Sonic Mania's "native" resolution and play it in 16:9 240p (@122hz for the matter) just by scaling the picture in the monitor's controls. And I was also able to play the original DOOM, using most of its original aspects through the Chocolate DOOM source port, by setting this thing to 320x200@144hz! It's just amazing that such a low resolution makes DOOM look new compared to the dozens of other ways I played it before...
TheDimensioner i have not been impressed with the video quality of crts and emulation. I have a RPi hooked up via rgb to a bvm and it doesn't look so good. It's comprable to composite with original hardware ran through a comb filter on a bvm. I am comparing 240p games
If RPi via RGB to a PVM is giving you poor output, you've done something very wrong. Getting visual quality indistinguishable from real hardware (ignoring lag) is a trivial thing to achieve right now, with current gen tech and cables.
I've done about a dozen of these mods. I don't lift the legs on the jungle IC when I do it. There's always a small cap or resistor on the bottom of the board nearby those RGB/FB input pins and I remove those and install a matching through-hole component on a breadboard. I solder to the pads where I removed the surface mount caps, but it is possible to rip them off if you are too rough, so the backup plan is the leg of the jungle IC on one end and there are numerous spots (test pads, links) where you can splice in the OSD line on the other side of that last .01u cap. Whatever that resistor value is on the fast blanking line, I pass both the OSD and always-high through that resistor. Also, I feed the sync into the luma pin on Sony TVs, because I have found there is some weird checkerboard pattern interference as well as comb lag on the composite video pin. This is a crude schematic I share with people who want to do something like this: gadgetscope.com/rgb/rgbschematic.png It's very important to terminate 75 ohm to ground each of the RGB from your input. Some SCART cables do this for you inside the cable, but some do not.
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 i have pal 60 hz, its nice motion ruclips.net/video/bVEzdZmg_e0/видео.html 50 hz has black borders on top and bottom on pal..
Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are also PAL region, but we got Multi norm TV without scart cuz it was more cheaper to import from Mexico, and USA than Europe, and also Sony and Phillips from Arg and Bra didn't fabricate TV's with scart... 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Exactly what I'd like to see. I have 240p running through a scart to component converter on a 29" Sony consumer grade CRT. Would love to find out if the RGB mod lends a higher quality picture or if it's just equivalent to what I'm currently running.
I am happy that we got RGB SCART available standard in Europe and it's stock on pretty much any TV that's not ancient. While I agree it looks fantastic, to claim it looks like a $1000 BVM is a large stretch as the title suggests. I think a good calibrated BVM is a very large step up from a consumer set, even with RGB. Maybe a lower end PVM wouldn't be worth it as those don't outperform a consumer grade RGB CRT by much.
W MJ third comment like this ive replied to! No, most European consumer grade CRTs didn't support RGB. The scart connectors on the back were only for carrying composite signals.
I live in Europe and all CRTs I have had/seen with other people that were made in the late 90s or later all had RGB/composite SCART inputs (that carried both signals), even the very cheap ones. S-video was much more uncommon in my experience. In the 80s it wasn't uncommon for a CRT to only have RF or composite. I'm in The Netherlands maybe not the same for other countries...
yep, never seen one without RGB, though often seen people use cheaper SCART cables that are not wired for RGB even though the TV and device plugged into it supports it.
Yep, virtually all TVs sold in the UK from around 1991 that had SCART also supported RGB. It was especially common to see sets with Teletext or On-screen display that had RGB input as well.
DrLilo 95% of all consumer CRT TVs I saw in the UK in the 90s had RGB input on at least one of the SCART sockets. I used to repair TVs / monitors / VCRs too, and don't think I ever saw a SCART TV after about 1991-92 that didn't support RGB, especially if it had Teletext or OSD. I can't entirely vouch for sets sold around the rest of Europe, but I seem to recall a similar situation there? Maybe specific Countries, they often sold sets without RGB, but I find that a tad strange. But, it is true that there were a lot of cheap crappy SCART cables that only hooked up the composite and audio pins, and that was mainly for connecting a VCR, and they only worked with composite. That was still an issue even when the first DVD players started to appear, so you had to make sure you bought a decent "Full SCART" cable if you wanted the best RGB image from DVD.
Very cool. The results look similar to the improvement that I see when using HD Retrovision's component cables with my unmodded $20 CRT. Of course, as you noted, RUclips's compression impacts the visuals.
Hi, it's kinda makes us square, we in Europe had 50hz games, and heavenly RGB (God, I do still remember this crispness and vividness of image,) You in the US , had those 60Hzs and many many upon many games that never got released over the pond, like Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 4. And as of today, many a American retrogamer discovers what people over here considered normal back in 90's. Cheers and good luck!
This was a really great video and these types of videos are exactly what all us beginner CRT enthusiasts need more of. My suggestion would be to do something like this on a high end SD consumer CRT shadow mask set such as a JVC I'Art. On a similar note, it would be cool to see comparison pictures between high end CRT pro monitors with shadow masks vs PVMs/BVMs.
I work in medical imaging. These old pvms were used for ultrasound and for oscopy (thats were they shove a camera up your butt or down your throat). The pvm 2030 was usually used on oscopy and the pvm 20mu, 20m2mdu and similar models were used for ultrasound. I got a flat screen on my ultrasound unit now. I honestly think that the crt monitors give a superior image that is more diagnostic and I am not the only one who feels this way. I am not sure why everyone has switched to flat screens but I can guess...
I was having a good read on the topic until you talked about what the PVM was used for, then I started thinking of some stupid @#$% relating to Beavis and Butt-Head. Thanks a lot. :P
voltz15 Yeah dude the pvm 2030 i got was used exclusively for colonoscopies (butt probeing) at my work. I tell people this while we are playing Street Fighter to throw them off their game mwahahaha
Dollar cost dictated the switch initially. Same goes for most industries. I work in broadcast/VFX/film, and we did the same switch for the same reason. And, to be fair, keeping an LCD/OLED colour corrected is a lot easier than a CRT as well, with colour drift being far less of an issue (important for creative work).
Dan Mons yeah im sure the flat-screens that come with the new ultrasound units are way cheaper than the pvms. we pass through the monitor on the unit to a consumer grade television mounted on the wall during procedures and the television has a sharper image. This leads me to believe that the monitor on my $200k ultrasound unit is a cheap consumer grade monitor. I guess you could look at it the other way around and think its amazing that the old units had pvms and not cheap monitors...i think the situation in diagnostic imaging is a little different than broadcasting. There has been a push to make these units as small, light, and sexy looking as possible in the last 15 years. Also, i don't know what it is but women seem to loathe large crts. Every women i have ever worked with has complained about how ugly and heavy the old ultrasound units are with the crt monitors and there are far more women working than men... Your right about the maintenance. The crts used to get calibrated every three months and by a technician. The flat screens are never serviced. I guess they don't need it.
The white/light-gray versions of PVMs (with MD in the model number) were manufactured to meet medical reg. specs and used in medical settings. The majority of gray/black PVMs and BVMs were made for broadcasting, video editing, film/TV studios, etc., and never set foot in any hospital. I mean it is funny to throw someone's game off by telling them they're playing on a poop viewing CRT, but it's generally not true. :p
Booster McBlast good luck shipping one from there. I lost two pvms shipped locally inside the US arrived broken at my door. this mod is great for people who can pick up a tv locally and add rgb.
Although we only had the PAL 50 Hz here in Europe, I am glad that we got RGB out of the box with our CRTs. All we had to get back then was a proper RGB cable (most of the consoles) and we were ready to go. Now in the late 2010s, we are able to experience best of both worlds.
Again, this is a common misconception. The majority of consumer CRTs in Europe did NOT support RGB, they only had SCART connectors for carrying composite video, as SCART is a multi-format connector.
We always had rgb in Europe .... It's just a buzz word for Americans because they never have...it's good that they have a cheap option , I always laugh when I hear people using frameisters in the UK ...could have about 20 crts for the price.
@DrLilo depends in which european country you live I guess. I live in france and I've never ever seen a TV that didn't handle RGB SCART. @Peter M Just like us ^^ Too bad Sega, sony, nintendo, etc didn't get it until the early 2000's ...
The reservoir cap(s) in the SMPS can pose a risk too. More modern sets will often self-discharge that cap after a while of being switched off, but that's definitely NOT guaranteed. The charge on the anode cap / CRT itself is obviously a greater hazard, but the smoothing caps on the main board shouldn't be ignored either, as they can give quite a jolt. I always check the voltage across the main reservoir cap(s) on any PSU before working on something. It's very quick and easy to do with a multimeter, and the cap(s) can be safely discharged via a resistor. (or just shorted directly if the voltage is fairly low, but that may actually cause very slight damage to the cap, not to mention the pins / pads / solder joints, and even the screwdriver or whatever you're using to short the cap. The peak currents involved can be VERY high, even if the voltage on the cap is only around 20-30 Volts.) It's a worthwhile mod, but it's a bit strange as a Brit, as we've always had RGB SCART on 95% of the CRTs since the early 90s. hehe I chipped-in with a friend to buy an RGB SCART cable for his SNES around 1992, and I also added some RCA cables to it, so we could experience stereo sound on games like Starfox for the first time. It was pretty awesome. I always tried to build RGB cables for as many of my other "retro" machines as I could back then, and that obsession for the best audio / visual / gaming experience has continued ever since. Which is why I love this channel. :p
Also, as somebody pointed out in another comment - directly shorting the tube to chassis Earth can actually damage the HV diode(s) in certain types of monitor. It's probably safe enough on most colour sets, but some B&W monitors / TVs (especially vector monitors, like the Vectrex) can be damaged by the sudden current spike, or some back-EMF effects of the flyback trafo. Like with discharging smoothing caps, a more ideal method would be to use a power resistor of say 10 Watts, and a value of around 2K or so to discharge a CRT. The only drawback is that it will obviously take longer to completely discharge the tube (maybe 15 seconds or more), and a standard multimeter won't handle testing of the residual anode voltage either. To be fair, I've repaired hundreds of CRT TVs / monitors over the years, and I've generally only used a resistor for discharging larger caps. I've never personally seen a damaged HV diode nor flyback from simply shorting directly "across" the tube (ie. from the anode cap to chassis Earth), but you never know.
One man in Brazil, he made it. he put and rgb sign on sony TV. he amplified the TV video signal so as to receive the rgb signal. in the end, the imagem look much better.
Bob's shock at how good consumer TV's can look in RGB makes me smile because it reminds me of when I first saw RGB back in the 90's. I was fortunate to have grown up with RGB so to me, im used to how good it looks
That's pretty awesome. One of my coworkers, who restores arcade cabinets, and I were discussing using an arcade monitor to display RGB video from a SNES. I took a quick look on your site but couldn't find anything about it. Have you tried to use an arcade monitor with a console before? It sounds pretty ideal since he said his extra monitor that he has accepts RGB @ 240p.
I watched The 8-Bit Guy do this on a standard Composite TV, so it's VERY nice to know that the same can be done on a Trinitron of all TVs. THAT SAID, I'm curious: Do you think the same could be done on a Sony Trinitron KV-8AD11? Because that I believe would be my dream TV.
12:20 Is it just me or does the RGB hack look the best? It actually looks right. I don't remember scanlines as a kid, so the BVMs look strange to me. Although, from far away, that may be a different story.
That's not correct. The VAST majority of consumer grade TVs here in Europe actually don't support RGB at all. They have SCART inputs, but they are only for accepting composite video over SCART cables.
Thats true, scart is a cable connector type not a video format. Scart it self is a cable that happen to support multiple formats that include a 15khz RGBs video as well as component and bi-directional composite.
Yeah I always wondered what video formats the scart connectors in Europe on the CRT's carried. So most didn't support rgb on them over there? That's interesting....
DrLilo I don't know of any data that supports this but I've only ever come across the very odd CRT TV that struggled with displaying RGB. A much more common issue - especially with much older TVs - is their inability to deal with 60hz RGB, from what I've found.
I have done this several times for retro computers and multi arcades from scratch builds. None were Trinitrons yet. Hard to find larger ones in this area
Looks like a nice two stripes per pixel horizontally and visible but thin scan lines. I think a 450 line display might actually be BETTER for playing old consoles like this (once modded for RGB) than trying to play on a top notch, but really meant for HD mastering, D32E1WU. On the 32, 2/3rds of the picture is inactive and 1/3rd is active. I "get" the desire to have scan lines, but I think like all things, there can be too much of a good thing. I have a PVM 20L2 myself ("only" 600 lines) so it mostly splits the difference between that 900 line D20F1U and the consumer TV. Sharp without having bigger scan lines than active lines. Of course, if I had that 32 i'd do other things with it like hook up a PS3 and run HD through it - thats where a D32 would really shine.
Hey Bob, do you know if Jose or anyone else is compiling a database of the various jungle IC's and their pinouts? If not, would you be willing to start one on your site? Not that I want to give you even more work to do. But this could be incredibly useful to people in the future.
Great video I wish I had someone to mod my TV like this. Meanwhile would be fun to gather and centrelise as much information on CRT for your new website : how to rgb mod, calibrate and repair those old monitor :)
Awesome, been looking forward to this - One request, can you PLEASE test a lightgun on that next one? I know technically it should not work if the TV has Component input, because of processing, but maybe in RGB? Also input lag _ I would expect there to be none, and guns to work, but would be great to see in action!
Thanks for the response. I think the whole light gun compatibility thing is a little murky (hey, good reason for that new site, huh?), but isn't it that CRTs that do HD won't work? I don't recall where the cutoff is - will "Enhanced Definition" (480p) TVs work? I'd be extremely curious to see if a Jungle Mod could be the piece of the puzzle to allow 240p RGB, and 480p/720p over component for some the later systems... it's good to dream, right?
The brightness problem is the same I had on my sony trinitron but what I did was removed the 75 ohm termination resisters and used 200 ohm variable resistors in termination on the rgb lines and got the brightness down a good amount. There has to be a better way than what I did. I used 200 ohm because that's what I had on hand and also on mine I can't adjust the color as the rgb mod disables it,bet yours is the same as well.
There are so many easy to find 36 inch trinitrons for free with component that it’d be more worthwhile to find a new one granted you have the means to move it
Really looking forward to your RGB shift Circuit solution. Would have been cool if you had placed a small pot on the back for manually shifting horizontally! EDIT oh, you were just talking about adjustments. Did you do it via service menu?
Wow, this sounds really amazing. Where will we be able to find the DIY steps? the concept looks simple enough but the results, well I certainly believe that they are amazing. I really look forward to the DIY. Where is Jose's site? The guy is brilliant!
That's seriously awesome! Hopefully RGB modding these cheap and plentiful TVs makes high quality CRT output much more accessible to everyone. I think the BVM comparison is a touch exaggerated due to lower line count, but it does look very close to a PVM of comparable size. The arcade monitor replacement idea is very exciting, since finding replacements for stuff like candy cabs (and in my case, a DDR machine) is much more difficult than finding broadcasting monitors. I know there are high line count consumer CRTs out there, but most likely they rely on a digital signal. I wonder if it's possible to RGB mode those as well?
AtomicZepherino Very likely that most CRTs can be modded for RGB input, but the main issue with many "digital" or "flicker-free" / 100Hz / 120Hz CRTs is the difference in the scan rate. That often went hand-in-hand with the high line count thing obviously, as it required a higher bandwidth input signal to take full advantage. Those sets often used a framebuffer to do de-interlacing and other "enhancements" like SVM, and would then drive the CRT at a higher Sync freq, like a big VGA monitor. (although some of those enhancements looked terrible in the late 90s and 00s. lol. Seriously grainy, or weird motion blur / ghosting added.) So, for those sets, you'd have to drive the deflection differently for a 50 / 60Hz Vsync and ~15 KHz Hsync input, which obviously makes things really tricky. Quite a few of those sets had VGA or Component input already though, so it depends if a direct RGB mod would result in a cleaner image or not.
Great video as always. I'm actually curious if there's any known mod upgrade to the original Xbox console. Do you happen to know of any besides the softmod?
I agree - not so much for the color, but because I feel that the clean signal cutting out Composite garbage compression is even closer to "intended" or "period correct" than an ungodly expensive "professional imaging instrument". Totally closer to an arcade monitor...
Great video despite the focus in certain parts. Oh well, makes it so they have to get the service manual to find the pin-outs. I have a question but. In the video you mentioned the picture originally was shifted. I understand this is to do with a horizontal sync issue but how did you fix the problem?
Is Jose offering this mod service? Since every CRT is different, they need to read the manuals and check if the TV is able to be modded. The CRT in question is a KV-27FS100. Or maybe someone else is offering the service
Does he do this enough that it would be worth him making in interpose board for the jungle chip? It would make it so much cleaner. Pulling pins up like that all just seems wrong to me.
There should be caps somewhere along the line between the OSD output and the jungle's RGB in. No need for an interposer, just use the holes the manufacturers gave you.
It is all good and fun. Yet if you find a Denver 14 inch CRT television from europe with DVD player build in. From circa 2005/08. Then it will have two scart connectors. One are for sound output and image output. The other is a way different thing. It is the input, and it have a special Scart-RGB mode. It can take normal Video over Scart as well. Then it have Composit on the front of the TV as well, and it has stereo speakers. Not the best speakers, yet that is what the scart out is for. Yet when in RGB mode, the TV delivers a stunning picture quality.
The brightness issue is something I had with my RGB SCART TV when I got a cheap SCART cable for my Mega Drive 2, no matter how much I lowered the brightness it still didn't look right; very bright and washed out. It turns out that the guy on the production line for these cheap cables must have been having a bad day because he had added the capacitors to each of the RGB lines in the SCART cable, but didn't add the resistors in line. I added the appropriate resistors and reset the brightness on my TV and the image came up absolutely perfect!! Thought I'd mention this, and that the brightness issue might be just "too much" signal through the RGB lines and just need to add some resistors.
Thank you for this video Bob! The bottom line I get after actually seeing the mod is that it's super easy if you know where to tap the signals. Also, the image shifted to the left were because of sync signal problem?
Too many comments to reply to individually.. Just wanted to admit I was wrong on this one and apologise. Guess I just encountered a few cheap/old models without RGB and jumped to conclusions. Woops!
One big question I have always had: the SCART home 15 kHz TVs that accept RGB are basically 50 / 60 Hz devices and if you are going to feed them with something specific to arcades like Irem's R-Type that runs at 55 Hz it is going to cause "panic" to that TV logic board... So from this point of view I have always thought the most professional solution would be to use genuine 15 kHz arcade monitor logic that drives the CRT picture and is designed to accept anything between 50-60 Hz...
At work we had to fix one since the company is too cheap to buy a new one. My engineer left it on the work table for 2 days to make sure it was discharged properly.
8bit guy was it? he soldered a lead across some pins on the pcb, something about disabling the box around the closed caption.. does that apply for all TVs?
Ahh. I've been wanting to RGB mod my sharp 32" tv for awhile. I already researched it and have an appropriate jungle IC, just not sure on what circuit I need. There is also this monster known as college impeding my progress on doing anything related to console modding. And my lab is an hour away. -.-
For CRTs that only have mono input, would there be any audio degradation if the stereo input from scart was summed into mono using 1k ohm resistors on each channel? I plan to use a gscartsw 8:2 with one output going to a retrotink 5x for game capture and the other going to a RGB modded CRT. So stereo sound would be desired for the PC.
12:25 that must be some good composite video, because it looks more appealing than the others. Maybe because it's a 3rd gen game. It gives the illusion of there being more detail in the game, more texture, softer edges. I'd go with S-video at the most, and lower sharpness setting than if using composite. The BVM look can (almost) be achieved with a 4k OLED and the right filters. If u ask me, composite is even acceptable for 4th gen (and for silent hill 1 on ps1). For 4th gen in particular, S-Video might be ideal if available, and good enough even for 5th gen titles like MegaMan X5 and arcade titles like Metal Slug. High quality RGB, like seen here, on a good consumer set, is the maximum I'd consider for 4th gen games, like "a link to the past". In that case, composite would create the illusion of more detail, S-Video would be balanced, and RGB would make sure that all the detail there is, you get to appreciate. All valid imho. For 6th gen, RGB is a must, and that's why I'm here.
No, I'm very sorry, we haven't had time to make the guide. I recommend checking out this channel. His videos are great and can help with the modding: ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw
Here is such a compiled list, and much more info on these mods: shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155 I want to do some of these mods myself soon.
For gaming and old computers. I prefer the RGB modded over thos BVM ones. Sure there are less lines. Yet the pixels for some reason, looks way more sharp. It is as if the BVM's are too high in quality, that they smear the picture. A bit like why you dont want to use LCD's.
@@RetroRGB Alright thanks! Not very knowledgeable about CRTs. Recently acquired a Sony KV-27V42, and saw a lot of info on RGB/Component Mod on it online. That of course would be very nice if I could find someone that can skillfully mod it but I need to be able to capture audio/video.
Hey Great video, I have a question? What exactly do you do to shift the image after it showed up all the way to the left? I did the same mod yet have the same problem. If you can help me with exactly what you did I will buy a shirt. Sounds fair?
Hello, How do you make yourself a convergence tape, please tell me, all my tvs need some in a the cornes and i cannot buy them anymore, how to i attach them to the tube? do i paste them onto the tube? I'm not sure, please help me!
Hi, I have a PC with games and I want to connect it to my crt using a VGA to AV converter, the Crt TV is a Sony 25 "trinitron. By making this connection it looks black and white. Why? I connect it to an LCD and it looks good in color. could you help me please.
Do you want to come upstate and test HDMI on a CRT TV? :P I got lucky this weekend and picked up a 34" Sony CRT that has HDMI. I haven't been able to get it in my house yet to play with it because it weights 200 lbs...
I have one at the office. There's about 2 frames of lag, since the TV has a video processing board for all signals. Also, it interprets 240p as 480i, so old games don't look that good.
That stinks about the lag. I read good things online including a Tested article calling it a really good TV. Is it the KD-34XBR960 that you have in the office? That's the model I picked up.
I found a schematic for my tv, has all the necessary pins on the IC... But the TV is coaxial only to begin with. Ugh.. Is there no way to force the TV to enter composite (av1 etc) or can that be done manually somehow? Or can I simply use the coaxial as a sync point where normally I would have used the AV input as sync.
I modded a Zenith RF-only set. The jungle IC had RF input on one pin, and composite video output on another pin. So, the RF went into the jungle IC, and was converted to composite video, came out of the IC, and went back into a different section of the same IC. It seems like this arrangement is used on TVs where there's an RF configuration and another RF plus composite input configuration, and the TV switches between RF loopback composite and external composite input. The switch is done with a software bit which I would not be able to access without reprogramming the MPU - so instead, I just put the RF loopback through a toggle switch where one side is the original video and the other side is the sync signal from the SCART connector (I also use a SCART dongle to connect composite to this thing). The sound went through a separate sound decoder which also has a loopback circuit - and amazingly supports stereo sound even though it's an RF only set.
Hello guys, I watched the video, but i have to ask if there is another way how to connect my CRT TV as a secondary monitor to my Desktop PC via the graphics card (Radeon 7950)'s DVI-I port or via the MiniDisplayPort. I intend to use the CRT for games that require racing wheel, also i am using the tv for my older generation consoles, i am looking to get a quality of picture something similar to the PlayStation 3's AV output. On my older PC the Radeon 9550 had an built in TV out that allowed me to output picture on the CRT, but nowadays graphics card don't have it anymore. I have seen and found numerous converters and cables but I am not sure how to proceed, I have already done some damage to the PC's Hard Disk with an miniDP cable to HDMI that made some electrical issue. So I don't wish to experiment anymore, I am looking for a straight solution something that has been tested and known to work. If you offer something as a solution or have some advices I will be happy to know. Thanks.
I wish there was someone around here that could do that :( My CRT seems to have a weird Flickering on bright stuff like white text..is that something that I can fix with setting sin service menu? Seems to happen on PS2 more than other systems though.
I saw this in person this weekend, and the work was really impressive. Nice, bright colors, details were reasonably sharp, and overall an amazing conversion. I enjoy this type of content... sort of an "insider look" at how these things work.
If you'd like the video running side by side or PIP for comparison purposes, let me know.
My dad was a manager at a factory that was opposite from the Sony CRT plant. One day he came home with a top of the line 60hz RGB scart Trinitron for the living room. That thing hosted all my imported Japanese consoles over the years. I really miss that TV man.
That’s awesome!
Quoting - "They [Sony PVMs] needed to be precision instruments, which is why they cost so much money". 80% agreed. But as someone working in broadcast/TV/film, I can tell you now a lot of the cost of Sony equipment is simply because Sony can get away with charging what they do. The same thing happens today. You can buy a Sony OLED for the cost of a car (we have displays in production that cost $35K or more), or a different brand for 1/10th the price at 90% the quality. Some of that cost goes into the "law of diminishing returns" on components and increased quality. Some of it is just because there's a Sony badge on the front. Same goes for any recognizable brand - Apple today, or Nike/Reebok in the 80s and 90s. Dollar cost doesn't always equal the actual improved value of the product, especially in markets with little-to-no competition, or where hyped brand recognition keeps the perceived cost high.
Consider that late model PC CRTs have the similar dot pitches or line counts as PVMs and BVMs for a fraction of the price (I'd challenge anyone to tell the difference between a 240p@120Hz 21" PC monitor, and a 240p@60Hz ~20" BVM with the naked eye) . Also, arcade operators have been turning to Chinese and Mexican tubes and chassis for years, as well as consumer TVs for parts for ages. While certainly nowhere near the dot pitch of a PC CRT monitor pr PVM/BVM, it's more than adequate for commercial gaming applications.
If you want to see a huge array of RGB/SCART screenshots from the 80s and 90s, check out British magazines like "Mean Machines". They took screenshots exclusively on RGB/SCART televisions with real film cameras for all of their 8 and 16bit reviews - www.meanmachinesmag.co.uk/ . You can see the quality is amazing, and it's what any Europeans would have considered "normal" back in those days.
Checked out some mags. Being from the usa. I have never heard of it. Looks like it is written for mature audience. Pretty cool thanks
NiggelMyNiggel Mean Machines, Mean Machines Sega and CVG (Computer and Video Games) were all similar teams. Many of them work for Retro Gamer Magazine, a modern UK print magazine. All worth reading for a different perspective. I'm in Australia, and growing up the UK had more influence on gaming here than the US (EGM, GamePro, etc) due to the PAL relationship. That's why RGB gaming and SCART is less foreign here too. Always worth a smile when people discover it 30+ years later.
Funny that your comment mentions my almost a year "struggle" with CRTs (in a "cheapo" way XD). When I got my Nintendo Wii, I picked it up simply for the fact that it could emulate most retro consoles, and at 240p nonetheless, with component cables for the best quality (it can offer). My first hunt for a display was of course a CRT, since I knew already that it would give a better picture for old games. And my eyes were on none other than the SONY brand, because the whole internet say they're the best. The one I ended up taking was a 29" SONY WEGA that I payed almost 1.5x more than my second option, that at the time was a similar LG. But when I finally set it all up, I regrettably perceived too late that the tube was dying. The convergence was off in the corners, and it gave a pinkish hue when brightness was over 50. I was pissed at myself for paying more for something that was about to get scrapped, but I ended "fooling" someone else by selling it and getting some of the money back XD... Actually, I didn't fool the guy, because the first time I used the TV it was with composite cables and of course the little defects would be that more pronounced, and the guy that bought it used component cables for his custom arcade board, which really showed what that tube was capable of... I still regret it a little for parting ways with it, though (maybe a way of making myself better for practically still fooling the guy XD).
But moving along, after the SONY fiasco, turns out I found a similar 29" LG tube that was my second option, and so I grabbed that. How perfect that tube is (for my current standards now)... I payed around 70% of the price I payed for the SONY (which now I can only find the same model for around double the original price I payed), but the quality is impressive. I always had luck with LG displays, and given my later CRT acquisition I'm telling, that's true.
Almost a month later, I broke my perfectly fine LCD PC monitor, that was only 2 years. By luck, I came across a 2006 LG CRT monitor, and holy! As cheap as it was, I feel bad for the person that sold it not knowing of its "hidden" capabilities. Being a retro "advocate" (of sorts), I can say that late PC monitors are the holy grail of retro emulation. Compared to my 29" tube with component cables, games look at least double as sharp, and also by the high amount of resolutions and refresh rates it's capable of displaying, the small variations in quality settings, aspect ratios, scanline thickness, etc., are so vast, it makes it the best thing I ever bought, like, ever! I was able to set Sonic Mania's "native" resolution and play it in 16:9 240p (@122hz for the matter) just by scaling the picture in the monitor's controls. And I was also able to play the original DOOM, using most of its original aspects through the Chocolate DOOM source port, by setting this thing to 320x200@144hz! It's just amazing that such a low resolution makes DOOM look new compared to the dozens of other ways I played it before...
TheDimensioner i have not been impressed with the video quality of crts and emulation. I have a RPi hooked up via rgb to a bvm and it doesn't look so good. It's comprable to composite with original hardware ran through a comb filter on a bvm. I am comparing 240p games
If RPi via RGB to a PVM is giving you poor output, you've done something very wrong. Getting visual quality indistinguishable from real hardware (ignoring lag) is a trivial thing to achieve right now, with current gen tech and cables.
I've done about a dozen of these mods. I don't lift the legs on the jungle IC when I do it. There's always a small cap or resistor on the bottom of the board nearby those RGB/FB input pins and I remove those and install a matching through-hole component on a breadboard. I solder to the pads where I removed the surface mount caps, but it is possible to rip them off if you are too rough, so the backup plan is the leg of the jungle IC on one end and there are numerous spots (test pads, links) where you can splice in the OSD line on the other side of that last .01u cap.
Whatever that resistor value is on the fast blanking line, I pass both the OSD and always-high through that resistor.
Also, I feed the sync into the luma pin on Sony TVs, because I have found there is some weird checkerboard pattern interference as well as comb lag on the composite video pin.
This is a crude schematic I share with people who want to do something like this: gadgetscope.com/rgb/rgbschematic.png
It's very important to terminate 75 ohm to ground each of the RGB from your input. Some SCART cables do this for you inside the cable, but some do not.
OMG a week ago, I spent more than an hour looking this video. It was on my feed today. Those shots are incredible as reference for CRT shaders.
Makes me glad I live in europe with the glorious RGB scart standard
De rien ;)
Too bad your standard is 50hz, pal60 TVs are rarer so....
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 i have pal 60 hz, its nice motion ruclips.net/video/bVEzdZmg_e0/видео.html 50 hz has black borders on top and bottom on pal..
Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay are also PAL region, but we got Multi norm TV without scart cuz it was more cheaper to import from Mexico, and USA than Europe, and also Sony and Phillips from Arg and Bra didn't fabricate TV's with scart... 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@@jackbootshamangaming4541 not really
Should keep in mind some older CRT will toast the rectifiers if you dont short through a resister
Yes do side-by-side with the component converters.
Exactly what I'd like to see. I have 240p running through a scart to component converter on a 29" Sony consumer grade CRT. Would love to find out if the RGB mod lends a higher quality picture or if it's just equivalent to what I'm currently running.
LaC64 That's EXACTLY what I want to see to be honest
LaC64 The HD Retrovision component cables should be included in that comparison video too!
Agreed! Component, converters, and HD Retrovision!
I may be in the minority, but I actually prefer the moded 450 line tv over the look of the BVM. It just feels warmer and more authentic.
I agree with you. Color temperature is better in the 450 TVL.
im with you
@@lmk10000 you can adjust color temperature in PVMs and BVMs . Mine can.
In the comparisson screenshot the modded tv really looks much better, the only advantage of the bvm/pvm is the more defined scanlines, nothing else.
Consumer looks better
I am happy that we got RGB SCART available standard in Europe and it's stock on pretty much any TV that's not ancient. While I agree it looks fantastic, to claim it looks like a $1000 BVM is a large stretch as the title suggests. I think a good calibrated BVM is a very large step up from a consumer set, even with RGB. Maybe a lower end PVM wouldn't be worth it as those don't outperform a consumer grade RGB CRT by much.
W MJ third comment like this ive replied to! No, most European consumer grade CRTs didn't support RGB. The scart connectors on the back were only for carrying composite signals.
I live in Europe and all CRTs I have had/seen with other people that were made in the late 90s or later all had RGB/composite SCART inputs (that carried both signals), even the very cheap ones. S-video was much more uncommon in my experience. In the 80s it wasn't uncommon for a CRT to only have RF or composite. I'm in The Netherlands maybe not the same for other countries...
yep, never seen one without RGB, though often seen people use cheaper SCART cables that are not wired for RGB even though the TV and device plugged into it supports it.
Yep, virtually all TVs sold in the UK from around 1991 that had SCART also supported RGB.
It was especially common to see sets with Teletext or On-screen display that had RGB input as well.
DrLilo
95% of all consumer CRT TVs I saw in the UK in the 90s had RGB input on at least one of the SCART sockets.
I used to repair TVs / monitors / VCRs too, and don't think I ever saw a SCART TV after about 1991-92 that didn't support RGB, especially if it had Teletext or OSD.
I can't entirely vouch for sets sold around the rest of Europe, but I seem to recall a similar situation there?
Maybe specific Countries, they often sold sets without RGB, but I find that a tad strange.
But, it is true that there were a lot of cheap crappy SCART cables that only hooked up the composite and audio pins, and that was mainly for connecting a VCR, and they only worked with composite.
That was still an issue even when the first DVD players started to appear, so you had to make sure you bought a decent "Full SCART" cable if you wanted the best RGB image from DVD.
Very cool. The results look similar to the improvement that I see when using HD Retrovision's component cables with my unmodded $20 CRT. Of course, as you noted, RUclips's compression impacts the visuals.
Michael Baker I would be SERIOUSLY interested to see the comparisons between those
Hi, it's kinda makes us square, we in Europe had 50hz games, and heavenly RGB (God, I do still remember this crispness and vividness of image,) You in the US , had those 60Hzs and many many upon many games that never got released over the pond, like Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Front Mission 4. And as of today, many a American retrogamer discovers what people over here considered normal back in 90's. Cheers and good luck!
This was a really great video and these types of videos are exactly what all us beginner CRT enthusiasts need more of. My suggestion would be to do something like this on a high end SD consumer CRT shadow mask set such as a JVC I'Art. On a similar note, it would be cool to see comparison pictures between high end CRT pro monitors with shadow masks vs PVMs/BVMs.
I'd love to find time for all of that! Hopefully someday.
@@RetroRGBhas that someday arrived yet owo
Wow this looks absolutely awesome!
I work in medical imaging. These old pvms were used for ultrasound and for oscopy (thats were they shove a camera up your butt or down your throat). The pvm 2030 was usually used on oscopy and the pvm 20mu, 20m2mdu and similar models were used for ultrasound. I got a flat screen on my ultrasound unit now. I honestly think that the crt monitors give a superior image that is more diagnostic and I am not the only one who feels this way. I am not sure why everyone has switched to flat screens but I can guess...
I was having a good read on the topic until you talked about what the PVM was used for, then I started thinking of some stupid @#$% relating to Beavis and Butt-Head.
Thanks a lot. :P
voltz15 Yeah dude the pvm 2030 i got was used exclusively for colonoscopies (butt probeing) at my work. I tell people this while we are playing Street Fighter to throw them off their game mwahahaha
Dollar cost dictated the switch initially. Same goes for most industries. I work in broadcast/VFX/film, and we did the same switch for the same reason. And, to be fair, keeping an LCD/OLED colour corrected is a lot easier than a CRT as well, with colour drift being far less of an issue (important for creative work).
Dan Mons yeah im sure the flat-screens that come with the new ultrasound units are way cheaper than the pvms. we pass through the monitor on the unit to a consumer grade television mounted on the wall during procedures and the television has a sharper image. This leads me to believe that the monitor on my $200k ultrasound unit is a cheap consumer grade monitor. I guess you could look at it the other way around and think its amazing that the old units had pvms and not cheap monitors...i think the situation in diagnostic imaging is a little different than broadcasting. There has been a push to make these units as small, light, and sexy looking as possible in the last 15 years. Also, i don't know what it is but women seem to loathe large crts. Every women i have ever worked with has complained about how ugly and heavy the old ultrasound units are with the crt monitors and there are far more women working than men... Your right about the maintenance. The crts used to get calibrated every three months and by a technician. The flat screens are never serviced. I guess they don't need it.
The white/light-gray versions of PVMs (with MD in the model number) were manufactured to meet medical reg. specs and used in medical settings. The majority of gray/black PVMs and BVMs were made for broadcasting, video editing, film/TV studios, etc., and never set foot in any hospital. I mean it is funny to throw someone's game off by telling them they're playing on a poop viewing CRT, but it's generally not true. :p
Wow that looks fantastic!
We made an american $20 CRT look like an european $10 CRT. ;-)
Booster McBlast now that's funny
LMAO!
Booster McBlast good luck shipping one from there. I lost two pvms shipped locally inside the US arrived broken at my door. this mod is great for people who can pick up a tv locally and add rgb.
Lol you pay too much I get mine free ... :)
Booster McBlast They are restricted to 50hz though, no?
When's the instructional video coming?
Although we only had the PAL 50 Hz here in Europe, I am glad that we got RGB out of the box with our CRTs. All we had to get back then was a proper RGB cable (most of the consoles) and we were ready to go. Now in the late 2010s, we are able to experience best of both worlds.
Again, this is a common misconception. The majority of consumer CRTs in Europe did NOT support RGB, they only had SCART connectors for carrying composite video, as SCART is a multi-format connector.
DrLilo Sorry but you’re totally an utterly wrong. A CRT with SCART inputs almost always supports RGB. That’s been the case in the U.K. since the 90’s
We always had rgb in Europe .... It's just a buzz word for Americans because they never have...it's good that they have a cheap option , I always laugh when I hear people using frameisters in the UK ...could have about 20 crts for the price.
@DrLilo depends in which european country you live I guess. I live in france and I've never ever seen a TV that didn't handle RGB SCART.
@Peter M Just like us ^^ Too bad Sega, sony, nintendo, etc didn't get it until the early 2000's ...
Gabbiadini I already retracted that comment weeks ago...
The reservoir cap(s) in the SMPS can pose a risk too.
More modern sets will often self-discharge that cap after a while of being switched off, but that's definitely NOT guaranteed.
The charge on the anode cap / CRT itself is obviously a greater hazard, but the smoothing caps on the main board shouldn't be ignored either, as they can give quite a jolt.
I always check the voltage across the main reservoir cap(s) on any PSU before working on something.
It's very quick and easy to do with a multimeter, and the cap(s) can be safely discharged via a resistor.
(or just shorted directly if the voltage is fairly low, but that may actually cause very slight damage to the cap, not to mention the pins / pads / solder joints, and even the screwdriver or whatever you're using to short the cap. The peak currents involved can be VERY high, even if the voltage on the cap is only around 20-30 Volts.)
It's a worthwhile mod, but it's a bit strange as a Brit, as we've always had RGB SCART on 95% of the CRTs since the early 90s. hehe
I chipped-in with a friend to buy an RGB SCART cable for his SNES around 1992, and I also added some RCA cables to it, so we could experience stereo sound on games like Starfox for the first time. It was pretty awesome.
I always tried to build RGB cables for as many of my other "retro" machines as I could back then, and that obsession for the best audio / visual / gaming experience has continued ever since. Which is why I love this channel. :p
Also, as somebody pointed out in another comment - directly shorting the tube to chassis Earth can actually damage the HV diode(s) in certain types of monitor.
It's probably safe enough on most colour sets, but some B&W monitors / TVs (especially vector monitors, like the Vectrex) can be damaged by the sudden current spike, or some back-EMF effects of the flyback trafo.
Like with discharging smoothing caps, a more ideal method would be to use a power resistor of say 10 Watts, and a value of around 2K or so to discharge a CRT.
The only drawback is that it will obviously take longer to completely discharge the tube (maybe 15 seconds or more), and a standard multimeter won't handle testing of the residual anode voltage either.
To be fair, I've repaired hundreds of CRT TVs / monitors over the years, and I've generally only used a resistor for discharging larger caps.
I've never personally seen a damaged HV diode nor flyback from simply shorting directly "across" the tube (ie. from the anode cap to chassis Earth), but you never know.
I've been planning to do this mod too and this was a great help, thanks!
One man in Brazil, he made it. he put and rgb sign on sony TV. he amplified the TV video signal so as to receive the rgb signal. in the end, the imagem look much better.
Thanks to this video, I can rgb mod my KV 20-fs12
Very excited for the upcoming S vs. Component vs. RGB on CRT video.
Bob's shock at how good consumer TV's can look in RGB makes me smile because it reminds me of when I first saw RGB back in the 90's. I was fortunate to have grown up with RGB so to me, im used to how good it looks
Thanks for posting this! I can't wait for the howto.
That's pretty awesome. One of my coworkers, who restores arcade cabinets, and I were discussing using an arcade monitor to display RGB video from a SNES. I took a quick look on your site but couldn't find anything about it. Have you tried to use an arcade monitor with a console before? It sounds pretty ideal since he said his extra monitor that he has accepts RGB @ 240p.
It's much harder, as you'd have to build (or buy) a board that outputs the exact correct voltage to an arcade monitor.
Did my RGB mod on a Sony Trinitron KV-20SE40A and LG combi, great TV's
Would you be interested in doing a BVM vs PC CRT (w/ OSSC) comparison?
I watched The 8-Bit Guy do this on a standard Composite TV, so it's VERY nice to know that the same can be done on a Trinitron of all TVs. THAT SAID, I'm curious: Do you think the same could be done on a Sony Trinitron KV-8AD11? Because that I believe would be my dream TV.
12:20 Is it just me or does the RGB hack look the best? It actually looks right. I don't remember scanlines as a kid, so the BVMs look strange to me. Although, from far away, that may be a different story.
I'm so glad that here the majority of CRTs already have RGB Scart
That's not correct. The VAST majority of consumer grade TVs here in Europe actually don't support RGB at all. They have SCART inputs, but they are only for accepting composite video over SCART cables.
Thats true, scart is a cable connector type not a video format. Scart it self is a cable that happen to support multiple formats that include a 15khz RGBs video as well as component and bi-directional composite.
Yeah I always wondered what video formats the scart connectors in Europe on the CRT's carried. So most didn't support rgb on them over there? That's interesting....
DrLilo I don't know of any data that supports this but I've only ever come across the very odd CRT TV that struggled with displaying RGB. A much more common issue - especially with much older TVs - is their inability to deal with 60hz RGB, from what I've found.
most supported RGB only low end ones didn't
Did you ever show the closeups of Jose's work and the diagrams and such? Like you mentioned @ 10:04?
I have a 14” Grundig TV here in Australia that has a RGB scart straight from the factory. It’s made in Germany. The CRT is a Philips.
That's a good one, look after it.
I have done this several times for retro computers and multi arcades from scratch builds. None were Trinitrons yet. Hard to find larger ones in this area
Looks like a nice two stripes per pixel horizontally and visible but thin scan lines. I think a 450 line display might actually be BETTER for playing old consoles like this (once modded for RGB) than trying to play on a top notch, but really meant for HD mastering, D32E1WU. On the 32, 2/3rds of the picture is inactive and 1/3rd is active. I "get" the desire to have scan lines, but I think like all things, there can be too much of a good thing. I have a PVM 20L2 myself ("only" 600 lines) so it mostly splits the difference between that 900 line D20F1U and the consumer TV. Sharp without having bigger scan lines than active lines. Of course, if I had that 32 i'd do other things with it like hook up a PS3 and run HD through it - thats where a D32 would really shine.
I planned on doing this about 5 years ago and with the brightness issue, figured you had to put resistors and capacitors to get the brightness down.
I prefer this to a BVM actually. I prefer the thinner scanlines of a TV or arcade monitor
Hey Bob, do you know if Jose or anyone else is compiling a database of the various jungle IC's and their pinouts? If not, would you be willing to start one on your site? Not that I want to give you even more work to do. But this could be incredibly useful to people in the future.
That's actually something I wanted to host on the new site, so other people can contribute as well.
I thought he was just going to yank the whole chasis out and put an RGB arcade chasis in the TV case, but no, this was a LEGIT mod! Nicely done :)
I wish I knew how to find a local person or shop to tune my Sony CRT and do an RGB mod to it like this.
Great video I wish I had someone to mod my TV like this. Meanwhile would be fun to gather and centrelise as much information on CRT for your new website : how to rgb mod, calibrate and repair those old monitor :)
I love this video! Im on my 10th crt at this point and I want perfekt geometry. Do you ha e any plans for a crt geometry video?
Awesome, been looking forward to this - One request, can you PLEASE test a lightgun on that next one? I know technically it should not work if the TV has Component input, because of processing, but maybe in RGB? Also input lag _ I would expect there to be none, and guns to work, but would be great to see in action!
Actually, light guns should work fine. I'll definitely test next time. Should be zero lag too.
Thanks for the response. I think the whole light gun compatibility thing is a little murky (hey, good reason for that new site, huh?), but isn't it that CRTs that do HD won't work? I don't recall where the cutoff is - will "Enhanced Definition" (480p) TVs work? I'd be extremely curious to see if a Jungle Mod could be the piece of the puzzle to allow 240p RGB, and 480p/720p over component for some the later systems... it's good to dream, right?
You are correct about some HD CRT's, but RGB modding isn't changing the resolution. I'll post a video tomorrow to demonstrate though.
The brightness problem is the same I had on my sony trinitron but what I did was removed the 75 ohm termination resisters and used 200 ohm variable resistors in termination on the rgb lines and got the brightness down a good amount.
There has to be a better way than what I did.
I used 200 ohm because that's what I had on hand and also on mine I can't adjust the color as the rgb mod disables it,bet yours is the same as well.
was there ever a follow up video? I'm diving into modding my crts and these videos really help!
I have a 36' Sony Trinitron, I wonder if I could give it component inputs one day.
There are so many easy to find 36 inch trinitrons for free with component that it’d be more worthwhile to find a new one granted you have the means to move it
@@Mickdoodle1I'm not sure he'd want such a screen size downgrade from 36 feet to 36 inches
@@RWL2012 crt enthusiasts gotta be the unfunniest people i know on god
Really looking forward to your RGB shift Circuit solution. Would have been cool if you had placed a small pot on the back for manually shifting horizontally!
EDIT oh, you were just talking about adjustments. Did you do it via service menu?
Wow, this sounds really amazing. Where will we be able to find the DIY steps? the concept looks simple enough but the results, well I certainly believe that they are amazing. I really look forward to the DIY. Where is Jose's site? The guy is brilliant!
Very cool. I've been thinking about doing the same on my 27FV310 / 36FV310 or one of my smaller Trinitrons.
This is so awesome
I've got a sizable consumer Trinitron that I'd love to do this to.
I wonder why they didn't just build RGB CRT tvs back then?
That's seriously awesome! Hopefully RGB modding these cheap and plentiful TVs makes high quality CRT output much more accessible to everyone. I think the BVM comparison is a touch exaggerated due to lower line count, but it does look very close to a PVM of comparable size. The arcade monitor replacement idea is very exciting, since finding replacements for stuff like candy cabs (and in my case, a DDR machine) is much more difficult than finding broadcasting monitors. I know there are high line count consumer CRTs out there, but most likely they rely on a digital signal. I wonder if it's possible to RGB mode those as well?
AtomicZepherino
Very likely that most CRTs can be modded for RGB input, but the main issue with many "digital" or "flicker-free" / 100Hz / 120Hz CRTs is the difference in the scan rate.
That often went hand-in-hand with the high line count thing obviously, as it required a higher bandwidth input signal to take full advantage.
Those sets often used a framebuffer to do de-interlacing and other "enhancements" like SVM, and would then drive the CRT at a higher Sync freq, like a big VGA monitor.
(although some of those enhancements looked terrible in the late 90s and 00s. lol. Seriously grainy, or weird motion blur / ghosting added.)
So, for those sets, you'd have to drive the deflection differently for a 50 / 60Hz Vsync and ~15 KHz Hsync input, which obviously makes things really tricky.
Quite a few of those sets had VGA or Component input already though, so it depends if a direct RGB mod would result in a cleaner image or not.
Wow so coool I love CRT. Suscribed !!!
Great video as always. I'm actually curious if there's any known mod upgrade to the original Xbox console. Do you happen to know of any besides the softmod?
New stuff has come out for it now, line the “XboxHD” project and an ssd mod
.... The Sony KV 20FS12 kinda looks better in a wierd way if you like the color pallet more....
I totally thought the same thing. The colors looked brighter to me.
I agree - not so much for the color, but because I feel that the clean signal cutting out Composite garbage compression is even closer to "intended" or "period correct" than an ungodly expensive "professional imaging instrument". Totally closer to an arcade monitor...
"Period correct" is a great way to describe it.
Great video despite the focus in certain parts. Oh well, makes it so they have to get the service manual to find the pin-outs. I have a question but. In the video you mentioned the picture originally was shifted. I understand this is to do with a horizontal sync issue but how did you fix the problem?
Is Jose offering this mod service? Since every CRT is different, they need to read the manuals and check if the TV is able to be modded. The CRT in question is a KV-27FS100. Or maybe someone else is offering the service
Does he do this enough that it would be worth him making in interpose board for the jungle chip? It would make it so much cleaner. Pulling pins up like that all just seems wrong to me.
There should be caps somewhere along the line between the OSD output and the jungle's RGB in. No need for an interposer, just use the holes the manufacturers gave you.
It is all good and fun. Yet if you find a Denver 14 inch CRT television from europe with DVD player build in. From circa 2005/08. Then it will have two scart connectors. One are for sound output and image output. The other is a way different thing. It is the input, and it have a special Scart-RGB mode. It can take normal Video over Scart as well. Then it have Composit on the front of the TV as well, and it has stereo speakers. Not the best speakers, yet that is what the scart out is for. Yet when in RGB mode, the TV delivers a stunning picture quality.
The brightness issue is something I had with my RGB SCART TV when I got a cheap SCART cable for my Mega Drive 2, no matter how much I lowered the brightness it still didn't look right; very bright and washed out. It turns out that the guy on the production line for these cheap cables must have been having a bad day because he had added the capacitors to each of the RGB lines in the SCART cable, but didn't add the resistors in line. I added the appropriate resistors and reset the brightness on my TV and the image came up absolutely perfect!!
Thought I'd mention this, and that the brightness issue might be just "too much" signal through the RGB lines and just need to add some resistors.
Thank you for this video Bob! The bottom line I get after actually seeing the mod is that it's super easy if you know where to tap the signals. Also, the image shifted to the left were because of sync signal problem?
Too many comments to reply to individually.. Just wanted to admit I was wrong on this one and apologise. Guess I just encountered a few cheap/old models without RGB and jumped to conclusions. Woops!
Can you rgb mod a tv with only a coaxial in and if so can you make a video on it?
One big question I have always had: the SCART home 15 kHz TVs that accept RGB are basically 50 / 60 Hz devices and if you are going to feed them with something specific to arcades like Irem's R-Type that runs at 55 Hz it is going to cause "panic" to that TV logic board... So from this point of view I have always thought the most professional solution would be to use genuine 15 kHz arcade monitor logic that drives the CRT picture and is designed to accept anything between 50-60 Hz...
At work we had to fix one since the company is too cheap to buy a new one. My engineer left it on the work table for 2 days to make sure it was discharged properly.
8bit guy was it? he soldered a lead across some pins on the pcb, something about disabling the box around the closed caption.. does that apply for all TVs?
Ahh. I've been wanting to RGB mod my sharp 32" tv for awhile. I already researched it and have an appropriate jungle IC, just not sure on what circuit I need.
There is also this monster known as college impeding my progress on doing anything related to console modding. And my lab is an hour away. -.-
ETA on the How To video?
All that effort for RGB signals. It's really cool but I feel for you guys not getting UK/EU Scart even if the connector itself was horrible lol.
Where can I go and get this done to one of my TVs. I live in Texas.
Might have to try this with my KV-36FS13 >:)
could you do an in depth tutorial
For CRTs that only have mono input, would there be any audio degradation if the stereo input from scart was summed into mono using 1k ohm resistors on each channel? I plan to use a gscartsw 8:2 with one output going to a retrotink 5x for game capture and the other going to a RGB modded CRT. So stereo sound would be desired for the PC.
No resistors are needed. Please check out this video for proof and more info: ruclips.net/video/DHoA2vVZh8Q/видео.html
12:25 that must be some good composite video, because it looks more appealing than the others. Maybe because it's a 3rd gen game. It gives the illusion of there being more detail in the game, more texture, softer edges. I'd go with S-video at the most, and lower sharpness setting than if using composite. The BVM look can (almost) be achieved with a 4k OLED and the right filters. If u ask me, composite is even acceptable for 4th gen (and for silent hill 1 on ps1). For 4th gen in particular, S-Video might be ideal if available, and good enough even for 5th gen titles like MegaMan X5 and arcade titles like Metal Slug.
High quality RGB, like seen here, on a good consumer set, is the maximum I'd consider for 4th gen games, like "a link to the past". In that case, composite would create the illusion of more detail, S-Video would be balanced, and RGB would make sure that all the detail there is, you get to appreciate. All valid imho.
For 6th gen, RGB is a must, and that's why I'm here.
Hi! Do you made the guide video for this mod? I was searching your channel but can't find It.
No, I'm very sorry, we haven't had time to make the guide. I recommend checking out this channel. His videos are great and can help with the modding: ruclips.net/channel/UCwOTvOtoAjiqQx1PCrfmTKw
Hi, do u have the complete scheme?
Is this a fire hazzard?
WOW!!!! So cool!
How was it determined the TV had the jungle chip required to do this?
We downloaded the service manual and searched for the jungle chip pinout.
RetroRGB a compiled list of sets that could be used for this would be an excellent tool.
Yup. That's part of the reason the new website is so important...so we can all contribute to a list like that!
Here is such a compiled list, and much more info on these mods: shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155
I want to do some of these mods myself soon.
For gaming and old computers. I prefer the RGB modded over thos BVM ones. Sure there are less lines. Yet the pixels for some reason, looks way more sharp. It is as if the BVM's are too high in quality, that they smear the picture. A bit like why you dont want to use LCD's.
How would work with a CRT that has a video out? Would you still be able to capture audio and video?
Good question. I've never tested, but I assume composite out wouldn't work, unless you're using sync-on-composite SCART cables.
@@RetroRGB Alright thanks! Not very knowledgeable about CRTs. Recently acquired a Sony KV-27V42, and saw a lot of info on RGB/Component Mod on it online. That of course would be very nice if I could find someone that can skillfully mod it but I need to be able to capture audio/video.
@@RetroRGB Also should I disable Velocity Modulation (VM). Gonna mainly use my set for 240p gaming like nes, SNES, n64.
You could always use a SCART or Component switch with two outputs: www.retrorgb.com/scartswitches.html
@@RetroRGB Very cool!
Thank god for PAL and Scart RGB :)
Hey Great video, I have a question? What exactly do you do to shift the image after it showed up all the way to the left? I did the same mod yet have the same problem. If you can help me with exactly what you did I will buy a shirt. Sounds fair?
how do you think, KV-29X1R model is good for rgb modding? chasis will be the same?
Hello, How do you make yourself a convergence tape, please tell me, all my tvs need some in a the cornes and i cannot buy them anymore, how to i attach them to the tube? do i paste them onto the tube? I'm not sure, please help me!
Hi, I have a PC with games and I want to connect it to my crt using a VGA to AV converter, the Crt TV is a Sony 25 "trinitron. By making this connection it looks black and white. Why? I connect it to an LCD and it looks good in color. could you help me please.
RGB vs Ypbpr on a consumer CRT!
Just did that one: ruclips.net/video/YABDisq0-nA/видео.html
Can this be done on any TV? For example a Sharp Game TV?
Hello, which switch should I use (On-On) or (On-off-ON)? Thanks
Either one will work but personally I would go with on-on as you will never need to use the off position.
Do you want to come upstate and test HDMI on a CRT TV? :P I got lucky this weekend and picked up a 34" Sony CRT that has HDMI. I haven't been able to get it in my house yet to play with it because it weights 200 lbs...
I have one at the office. There's about 2 frames of lag, since the TV has a video processing board for all signals. Also, it interprets 240p as 480i, so old games don't look that good.
That stinks about the lag. I read good things online including a Tested article calling it a really good TV. Is it the KD-34XBR960 that you have in the office? That's the model I picked up.
Can you mod it for component to?
I have the opportunity to pickup a sony kv x2972u in the UK for cheap. Would it be good for retro consoles or would another model be best?
Hi 😃
Do you know if old CRT TVs from the UK with Scart ports fitted as standard support RGB natively?! (I’m going to pick up an old SONY😝)
Well, just grabbed an old trinitron myself - it supports PAL and NTSC 50/60Hz..
I believe this to be true from the many comments I've read online.
I found a schematic for my tv, has all the necessary pins on the IC... But the TV is coaxial only to begin with. Ugh.. Is there no way to force the TV to enter composite (av1 etc) or can that be done manually somehow? Or can I simply use the coaxial as a sync point where normally I would have used the AV input as sync.
I modded a Zenith RF-only set. The jungle IC had RF input on one pin, and composite video output on another pin. So, the RF went into the jungle IC, and was converted to composite video, came out of the IC, and went back into a different section of the same IC. It seems like this arrangement is used on TVs where there's an RF configuration and another RF plus composite input configuration, and the TV switches between RF loopback composite and external composite input.
The switch is done with a software bit which I would not be able to access without reprogramming the MPU - so instead, I just put the RF loopback through a toggle switch where one side is the original video and the other side is the sync signal from the SCART connector (I also use a SCART dongle to connect composite to this thing). The sound went through a separate sound decoder which also has a loopback circuit - and amazingly supports stereo sound even though it's an RF only set.
Is there a big noticeable difference from Ypbpr to RGB?
Not exactly, other than a slight drop in color depth in Y Pb Pr.
Hello guys,
I watched the video, but i have to ask if there is another way how to connect my CRT TV as a secondary monitor to my Desktop PC via the graphics card (Radeon 7950)'s DVI-I port or via the MiniDisplayPort. I intend to use the CRT for games that require racing wheel, also i am using the tv for my older generation consoles, i am looking to get a quality of picture something similar to the PlayStation 3's AV output. On my older PC the Radeon 9550 had an built in TV out that allowed me to output picture on the CRT, but nowadays graphics card don't have it anymore. I have seen and found numerous converters and cables but I am not sure how to proceed, I have already done some damage to the PC's Hard Disk with an miniDP cable to HDMI that made some electrical issue. So I don't wish to experiment anymore, I am looking for a straight solution something that has been tested and known to work. If you offer something as a solution or have some advices I will be happy to know.
Thanks.
Bad time to try a new recording method.
TehTechnoGuy As much as I love his vids, that is true.
I wish there was someone around here that could do that :( My CRT seems to have a weird Flickering on bright stuff like white text..is that something that I can fix with setting sin service menu? Seems to happen on PS2 more than other systems though.