Ottoman Grand Bombard still totally useless joke after 1.5 years.. Janissary simply ridiculous. Devs really dislike Delhi man, elephants are not fun to play at all.
For Ottoman, i think separating the Janissary form the Handcannoneer would be a good buff for there imperial. Ottoman lose out of one late game finisher unit is a big disadvantage. Let them have Janissary and Handcannoneer, both would compliment each other realy well. Also remove the stupid 50% Damage taken from range attacks and change there unit tag to light Infantry, so they take only bonus damage from archer. It makes no senes, that any thing (Units, Siege, Buldings, Ships) all do 50% more damage to them.
@@AgentLando thats true, but thats just a minor advantage compared to the disadvantages. A Culverin oneshoots janissary, same as bombard implacements in Towers and keeps.
Finally, you're being honest about Delhi...Fr, they have been getting shafted every single update since the beginning. Anyone that thinks Delhi stands a fair chance against English is lying. When do you see Delhi beating English at a high level on a regular basis? When do you see Delhi beating any civ on any map on a regular basis? It is a 3 star difficulty civ and it has serious disadvantages. What is the point of having difficulty to civs if the easiest ones are the strongest?? It should be the opposite, or they should all be equal...I'm convinced the devs would rather have ppl w/ 50/50 win rates rather than see certain ppl excel at what they attempt to master. Over time they've made stone towers/walls basically obsolete, as well as keeps recently, which seriously effects some civs more than others, (like the delhi). It's honestly a joke...Any Delhi player has to play a full league ahead in skill just to maintain against an English player. That's just using English as an example, then you have HRE, which is only a two star civ, equally as hard of a counter. Now Rus and Abbassid are crazy strong. China late game, strong as always...Where is the Delhi? Left to have to fight for SS's, relics, berries, basically the entire map, all while maintaining a perfect economy and fending off any raids...I dare any dev of this game to climb from bottom to conqueror using Delhi ONLY. If you can't...something is wrong with ur game! And if you can, youtube it, cause I gotta see it.
@Tom3K_grabarzzzz yea when I first started playing dehli I was having like 13-15 scholars garrisoned in Imperial, which seemed to make it comparable to normal research times. Maybe with the dome of faith change I can go back to this? Idk tho the thing is scholars take pop space too so having a bunch in buildings a some in your army takes up some space. I'm also confused on madrasa up grades like are their times not affected by scholars garrisoned in mosques? It seems like the increase in research time is heavily compounded if they are garrisoned in the madrasa itself.
Using my sacreds gold to make my productions better and save wood so i have more units is something i really like about delhi, problem is its waaay too much macro to get those scholars out and in when i need research time so i would realy love that change
Let me tell you, with hard numbers, that the research time, is not the problem for delhi. - Incomparrison, having 20 Schoolars ~= 1min longer research time, for an imperial tech like Chemistry or Bloodlines. 2:26min in total comparred to the 1:30 for all other civs. - An Elite Upgrades takes 37seconds longer then for all other civs. 1:37 seconds in total. - The Dark Age Tech "Efficient Production" cuts tech time for all unit upgrades in half. The Elite Man at Arms Tech only takes 48 seconds to resarch. 12 seconds faster then for all other civs. - Lets say, you dont want more then 20 total schoolars. You put 15 in Mosque/Madrasa and 5 in you militry puduction buldings to get the techs faster. In that set up, you get your elite upgrades in 1:11min. So 11 seconds slower then for all other civs. With 15 Schoolars in Mosque/Madrasa, Blodlines and Co. take 3:17min to research, so a bit more then double the time for all other civs. - With the Dome of Faith and constand production in it, you can have 20 Schoolars at minute ~14:30 for a total of 1600 Gold. - Production in normal Mosque takes just as long but will cost you 2600 Gold. Having 20 or even 25 Schoolars in imperial shouldnt be a problem. The Problem is, that ppl are gready and dont make schoolars at all to boost they resarch time and then complain, that techs take for ever to be finished. As an Dehli Player, imagine for a moment, you need to pay 1000res upfront just for one elite Upgrage.
Tier lists for lower leagues doesn't really make sense cause anything S tier in gold will put the player in platinum making it no longer a gold strategy. Same would be true for anything but conqueror 3
Hey Beasty, Otto is C-tier on your list, but it's the strongest performing civ at all ranks except conq, where they're still 3rd at 53% win rate. Why do you think this is?
Beasty's tier list is based on top pro play. So it doesn't really matter what the winrate is below that. I think that Ottoman unit spam is probably an easy strat to do in lower leagues
agree with the list overall, but I think HRE / China being A tier might be a slight bias as beasty does like both civs / fit his playstyle yet both of them seem to have significant issues in the current meta looking at the stats.
@@derynheyaniwamoto4492 true, but as Beasty rightfully said, HRE is certainly one of the civs relying on keeps the most albeit being able to complement with towers. China does not suffer from the nerf as much so I could see an increase in their standings relatively speaking.
HRE has some good maps this season. Same with abbassid. So even if beasty alone plays those civs well, everyone else on the ladder still benefit from their map advantages. Aa for stats, Fremch has the worst WR, I dont see you or anyone else talking French being underpowered this season
delhi feels really bad after keep nerf. boiling oil is an absolute joke now. I really like the dome change, but its just marred by too many problems, and ghazi raiders just don't make up for all the nerfs. maybe, just maybe if they were straight up better horsemen. I'm basically a delhi one trick but I'm just going to move on at this point.
@@goldythuglife7621But slightly weaker. They have better attack speed than handcanoneers and are much cheaper in food. They actually schred through horses, including knights. Im kinda wondering why people use them so rarely..
@@BB_Cray they deal 20 damage compared to the 35 of hand so they lose to other ranged units which makes them weak tbh bec they will lose to archers etc and they r very expensive
i dont feel a big difference between keshik and horsemen tbh i still feel that it is a big nerf for mongol that they just deleted lancers for them, french knights with keep reduced cost is a whole different level
Dude, Keshiks are ~17% Weaker then a normal Knight in any term beside HP (24% less HP then a knight) and Armor (same as Knight) but to make up, they have 2.1 HP/s combat healing. They do have less Attack but a much higher Attackrate, which results in basicly the same DPS, they are only worse against other armored units because of that. BUT you pay 40 res less then for a normal knight. I think ppl always forget, That you can affort them faster and train them faster, making them much easyer to mass then normal knights.
@@donkey9113 so we gonna ignore, that the french player has to be in castle first, build a keep in Addition and needs to make 18 Knights just to be net Zero with Initial investment? Keshiks are not desinged to beet knights, especially not french knigths, which are the strongest in game. Beside that, keshiks become even more powerfull in imperial, with steppe lancer tech and haven then even more dps then regular knights. Comparing keshiks with french knights is like comparing HRE man at Arms with abbasid gulam.
perhaps this tier is for 1v1 pro, 4v4 noob playground deli mass elephant still op. you get decent change to boom and get mass elephants in some map in 4v4.
This is why I love the game. It is rather balanced even though people individually think otherwise. But the fact that even pros don’t agree on the tiers shows that there can’t be too big differences. Otherwise all pros would agree which civ is op.
Beasty basicly never makes any Schoolars, thats why he complains that there imperial sucks. If you want a reasonable tech time for dehli in Imperial you need atleast 20 Schoolars.
Abbasid is why we should take tier lists with some grain of salt. Abbasid went from D (in your May tier list) to B with nothing about the civ changing, but players got better at playing them.
Also shows that those tier lists are about the meta and not the civs. The civs aren’t good or bad. It all depends on what people think and how they play them and you can always find new ways to make a civ work.
Can't agree that French got any benefits from keeps nerf. This is the only civ, that is forced to make shitty(from this patch) keeps to be able to keep its economy alive while mass producing units. Other civ can build a wall through the whole map, while French is forced to build keep which defends nothing. imho.
Ottoman Grand Bombard still totally useless joke after 1.5 years.. Janissary simply ridiculous. Devs really dislike Delhi man, elephants are not fun to play at all.
Emergent!!! I recognized that from somewhere. It still should be called URGENT Beasty!
RedTurk
For Ottoman, i think separating the Janissary form the Handcannoneer would be a good buff for there imperial. Ottoman lose out of one late game finisher unit is a big disadvantage. Let them have Janissary and Handcannoneer, both would compliment each other realy well.
Also remove the stupid 50% Damage taken from range attacks and change there unit tag to light Infantry, so they take only bonus damage from archer. It makes no senes, that any thing (Units, Siege, Buldings, Ships) all do 50% more damage to them.
Not most siege, siege that has siege type attacks that ignore armor don't do bonus damage to Jans. For example, mangos don't do more damage to jans
@@AgentLando thats true, but thats just a minor advantage compared to the disadvantages. A Culverin oneshoots janissary, same as bombard implacements in Towers and keeps.
Finally, you're being honest about Delhi...Fr, they have been getting shafted every single update since the beginning. Anyone that thinks Delhi stands a fair chance against English is lying. When do you see Delhi beating English at a high level on a regular basis? When do you see Delhi beating any civ on any map on a regular basis? It is a 3 star difficulty civ and it has serious disadvantages. What is the point of having difficulty to civs if the easiest ones are the strongest?? It should be the opposite, or they should all be equal...I'm convinced the devs would rather have ppl w/ 50/50 win rates rather than see certain ppl excel at what they attempt to master. Over time they've made stone towers/walls basically obsolete, as well as keeps recently, which seriously effects some civs more than others, (like the delhi). It's honestly a joke...Any Delhi player has to play a full league ahead in skill just to maintain against an English player. That's just using English as an example, then you have HRE, which is only a two star civ, equally as hard of a counter. Now Rus and Abbassid are crazy strong. China late game, strong as always...Where is the Delhi? Left to have to fight for SS's, relics, berries, basically the entire map, all while maintaining a perfect economy and fending off any raids...I dare any dev of this game to climb from bottom to conqueror using Delhi ONLY. If you can't...something is wrong with ur game! And if you can, youtube it, cause I gotta see it.
Give back my Dehli! :(
To buff Delhi maybe make scholars garrisoned inside production buildings also contribute to research time
they should reduce imperial research time or instead increase the buff from garrisoned scholars.
@@Kwambomb23 maybe the buff to research should scale with ages so it requires less scholars to get faster research
@Tom3K_grabarzzzz yea when I first started playing dehli I was having like 13-15 scholars garrisoned in Imperial, which seemed to make it comparable to normal research times. Maybe with the dome of faith change I can go back to this? Idk tho the thing is scholars take pop space too so having a bunch in buildings a some in your army takes up some space. I'm also confused on madrasa up grades like are their times not affected by scholars garrisoned in mosques? It seems like the increase in research time is heavily compounded if they are garrisoned in the madrasa itself.
Using my sacreds gold to make my productions better and save wood so i have more units is something i really like about delhi, problem is its waaay too much macro to get those scholars out and in when i need research time so i would realy love that change
Let me tell you, with hard numbers, that the research time, is not the problem for delhi.
- Incomparrison, having 20 Schoolars ~= 1min longer research time, for an imperial tech like Chemistry or Bloodlines. 2:26min in total comparred to the 1:30 for all other civs.
- An Elite Upgrades takes 37seconds longer then for all other civs. 1:37 seconds in total.
- The Dark Age Tech "Efficient Production" cuts tech time for all unit upgrades in half. The Elite Man at Arms Tech only takes 48 seconds to resarch. 12 seconds faster then for all other civs.
- Lets say, you dont want more then 20 total schoolars. You put 15 in Mosque/Madrasa and 5 in you militry puduction buldings to get the techs faster. In that set up, you get your elite upgrades in 1:11min. So 11 seconds slower then for all other civs. With 15 Schoolars in Mosque/Madrasa, Blodlines and Co. take 3:17min to research, so a bit more then double the time for all other civs.
- With the Dome of Faith and constand production in it, you can have 20 Schoolars at minute ~14:30 for a total of 1600 Gold.
- Production in normal Mosque takes just as long but will cost you 2600 Gold.
Having 20 or even 25 Schoolars in imperial shouldnt be a problem. The Problem is, that ppl are gready and dont make schoolars at all to boost they resarch time and then complain, that techs take for ever to be finished. As an Dehli Player, imagine for a moment, you need to pay 1000res upfront just for one elite Upgrage.
And Ottomans are supposed to have super late game, that was what made them fun in aoe2. Jannisarries are OP in aoe2 unlike this game
Gold tierlist:
S English longbow rush, Ottoman feudal all in
A Hre fast castle, French knight all in
D literally everything else
U missing Rus feudal 4 ranges ram push also S tier
Tier lists for lower leagues doesn't really make sense cause anything S tier in gold will put the player in platinum making it no longer a gold strategy. Same would be true for anything but conqueror 3
Hey Beasty, Otto is C-tier on your list, but it's the strongest performing civ at all ranks except conq, where they're still 3rd at 53% win rate. Why do you think this is?
Don't worry about it
@@crowxar copying Beastys usual replies I see
Beasty's tier list is based on top pro play. So it doesn't really matter what the winrate is below that. I think that Ottoman unit spam is probably an easy strat to do in lower leagues
agree with the list overall, but I think HRE / China being A tier might be a slight bias as beasty does like both civs / fit his playstyle yet both of them seem to have significant issues in the current meta looking at the stats.
The patch is barely out, so the stats are from before the patch obviously
@@derynheyaniwamoto4492 true, but as Beasty rightfully said, HRE is certainly one of the civs relying on keeps the most albeit being able to complement with towers. China does not suffer from the nerf as much so I could see an increase in their standings relatively speaking.
HRE has some good maps this season. Same with abbassid. So even if beasty alone plays those civs well, everyone else on the ladder still benefit from their map advantages. Aa for stats, Fremch has the worst WR, I dont see you or anyone else talking French being underpowered this season
delhi feels really bad after keep nerf. boiling oil is an absolute joke now. I really like the dome change, but its just marred by too many problems, and ghazi raiders just don't make up for all the nerfs. maybe, just maybe if they were straight up better horsemen. I'm basically a delhi one trick but I'm just going to move on at this point.
But Ghazi Raiders are just better horsmen, much better horsemen. But i agree, they Keep nerf hits Dehli more then any other civ.
hopefully a new abbasaid guide soon
yea remember in the last one he was saying, if you want to lose games open military wing haha no he's promoting it
i would like to see the match vs louemt. someone knows which stream?
This is why I love winning games with Delhi
as a Delhi player, not anymore lol ill try something new
Last season was my first season playing ranked AOE4, I got plat 2 playing main ottoman... Now Im strugling to get back to plat 1 with ottoman...
Well you did pretty well king
Your rank has nothing to do with the civ, trust me.
This season there are like half the ppl (accounts?) playing. So it’s a lot harder to get higher rank.
With Abbasid i go to wonder in gold rang
Yea, I just burn Red Palace with like 20 MAA (HRE), at the end I still has some about 8 MAA (true no garrison)
Mmm I dont think so, maybe your oponent dont know how to use red palace
Had to like just cause the thumbnail, great vids bro
Isnt elite Janissaries as good as handcannon ?
No they deal good dmg vs cav only againdt any other units they are weaker
@@goldythuglife7621But slightly weaker. They have better attack speed than handcanoneers and are much cheaper in food.
They actually schred through horses, including knights. Im kinda wondering why people use them so rarely..
@@BB_Cray they deal 20 damage compared to the 35 of hand so they lose to other ranged units which makes them weak tbh bec they will lose to archers etc and they r very expensive
@@BB_Cray also they take 50%more dmg from ranged units so if an archer does 10 dmg it deals 15 to them
@@BB_Cray and i think they have less range than hand but i am honesty not sure on this one
i dont feel a big difference between keshik and horsemen tbh i still feel that it is a big nerf for mongol that they just deleted lancers for them, french knights with keep reduced cost is a whole different level
Dude, Keshiks are ~17% Weaker then a normal Knight in any term beside HP (24% less HP then a knight) and Armor (same as Knight) but to make up, they have 2.1 HP/s combat healing. They do have less Attack but a much higher Attackrate, which results in basicly the same DPS, they are only worse against other armored units because of that.
BUT you pay 40 res less then for a normal knight. I think ppl always forget, That you can affort them faster and train them faster, making them much easyer to mass then normal knights.
@@traductus3337 yes but french knights get cost reduced by keeps which makes them almost as cheap as keshiks
@@donkey9113 so we gonna ignore, that the french player has to be in castle first, build a keep in Addition and needs to make 18 Knights just to be net Zero with Initial investment?
Keshiks are not desinged to beet knights, especially not french knigths, which are the strongest in game.
Beside that, keshiks become even more powerfull in imperial, with steppe lancer tech and haven then even more dps then regular knights.
Comparing keshiks with french knights is like comparing HRE man at Arms with abbasid gulam.
@@traductus3337 i didnt say buff keshiks i just want lancers to be an option for mongols in castle age
@@donkey9113 you dont need lancer, the keshik is cheaper knight with more valiue compared to its cost.
At least the only way is up now #MAKEDELHIGREATAGAIN
Mongols might be A tier right now. They can end games so fast like early early castle with landmark push
Abbey of memes is good in English mirror especially if your opponent goes Council hall
perhaps this tier is for 1v1 pro, 4v4 noob playground deli mass elephant still op. you get decent change to boom and get mass elephants in some map in 4v4.
Not perhaps, it IS for 1v1
I just mix spear/maa with xbow, run through an elephant push and the Delhi player quits out lol.
Anything can be op in silver. 4v4 OR 1v1
For Vortix Dheli is S tier and ottoman the second best right now in pro league after rus
This is why I love the game. It is rather balanced even though people individually think otherwise. But the fact that even pros don’t agree on the tiers shows that there can’t be too big differences. Otherwise all pros would agree which civ is op.
Beasty basicly never makes any Schoolars, thats why he complains that there imperial sucks. If you want a reasonable tech time for dehli in Imperial you need atleast 20 Schoolars.
Abbasid is why we should take tier lists with some grain of salt. Abbasid went from D (in your May tier list) to B with nothing about the civ changing, but players got better at playing them.
Also shows that those tier lists are about the meta and not the civs. The civs aren’t good or bad. It all depends on what people think and how they play them and you can always find new ways to make a civ work.
Which is why I make tier lists once a month..so I can update them.
Huh
Save Delhi Beasty!! Show us a new path. Show us House of Learning + Hisar Academy into unlimited trash strat.
First!
Giga chad
Until this patch French could get a keep and a tc from the first small stone, otherwise this feels like a French buff with the Red Palace Arbs.
English has to make at least ONE Keep as well to research network of citadels
Make white tower
@@143kiruba doesn't have network pf citadels. English Keeps are different than their landmark keeps
@@jacobfsu bro check again i am an english main whitetower and berkshire have network of citadels upgrade
@143kiruba oh cool, it does. Another reason smooth brain players love English 😅
For high level, yes. For the bronze player, nothing change
For bronze player, every civ is S tier except the one they’re playing.
@@nosk7611 gold sentence
@@maxli5635 ☹️
Ayo I see my KEKW EEPS comment lol
KEKW EEPS
why did i read the title as aoe4 emergency repair
buff manguidai just a little. Maybe make horsemen faster and get a bonus to mangudai, so they have a decent counter
Can't agree that French got any benefits from keeps nerf. This is the only civ, that is forced to make shitty(from this patch) keeps to be able to keep its economy alive while mass producing units. Other civ can build a wall through the whole map, while French is forced to build keep which defends nothing. imho.
HRE towers can reach disgusting 3185 HP
Everything is false coming out of your mouth without the high quality Disclaimer section!
season 5 is the worst season ever. I mean i preferred the springald fest to this bs
Thanks for making this community even more toxic than ever. /s
Couldn't it also be that Ottoman don't match your playing style? You tend to play more greedy and boomy, and you can't play ottomans like that at all.