I don't know if my earlier comment came through or if it was deleted but here are my thoughts: - Great video, I don't know much about calculations themselves but I love this because it also seals the deal on Jiu vs Windsong. - I think calculating Windsong with [Measure] at max stacks is generous because each stack has an individual 2 round duration. Its rare that you get more than 5 stacks at a consistent pace. - I think the fundamental question of who is better between Windsong and Lucy is only relevant if we make the assumption that they're balanced to our current content difficulty, which they aren't. Both these characters hit way above the required damage ceiling, effectively rendering their "specialties" irrelevant until the content catches up to them. - Even in CN, the current Limbo6 bosses (Isolde and Kakania) have 70k and 80k health respectively. Windsong, despite being a so called "Raid Unit" can easily AUTO this within 3-5 rounds, this is comparable to Lucy. Again, if the totaled HP of the Limbo boss is 200k, and these two hit for 9 bajillion damage, it stops mattering who the damage is coming from (or in what form). - Both of these characters are so good that they can hit a Raid S within 15 turns even if them and their entire team is i2 lvl50 P0 (tested by yours truly when Windsong first released in CN and later when Lucy did). - Saying Windsong requires a huge amount of preparation to do anything is a bit disingenuous. The 1.9 Tuning and the increasing of player skill in general has allowed us to do still amazing damage even in other types of set-up such as 5 round Ultimate cycles. - Fundamentally, you can categorize Windsong as a "Raid" unit and Lucy as a "General" unit based on that Windsong is single-target oriented and Lucy has a neutral Afflatus + Pragmatist + waveclear oriented kit, that's fine, but I don't see it as a defining argument in favor of either of the characters (they can do what the other can just fine). - I still think Lucy is higher priority than Windsong given that Lucy is a limited character (and a bit more versatile given her Afflatus) but it ultimately comes down to the individual player preference and both will perform extremely well.
@@gordan_varn hey Gordan!! Thx for dropping by, haha to be honest one of the reasons I started calculating their damage was due to your post and Jakazin's video on the argument on Windsong Vs Lucy. I watched some video from CN side on the new tuning and seeing how frequent we are able to use the function to grant 2 copies of precast S1 and S2 really made Windsong OP and easy to set-up. So players for to beware that Windsong in 1.8 and Windsong in 1.9 will feel and play differently. Most I believe dislike Windsong playstyle is due to the RNG aspect of getting incantations and we be moving incantations around, merging them and all. But there is no need to stack until there are like 10 rank 3 incantations, but with smart use of the tuning and using her Ulti every 2-3 rounds (like any other DPS) she still does amazing dmg. I dare say on a dmg per round basis, using her Ulti every 3 rounds or so is better than waiting and continue to merge incantations. (Unless it's raid, then is different story, due to the Def reduction and Dmg reduction mechanics). Anyway, I totally agree with you that they are currently way ahead of content difficulties and probably will last at least 6 months down.
@@gordan_varn oh by the way, your earlier comment didn't came through, cause I didn't receive any notification on it. Surely didn't delete your comment hahah
@@Destr0th Haha I'm honored to have inspired more discussion surrounding these two rather than just writing one off for the other. Ultimately it just comes down to who people like more, but since they're both mother it's difficult to decide :P
one thing to note, the enemy recently have a specialized resistance/defence based on the damage type (reality or mental). and now, very few I see that an enemy that has a big resistance for a certain affliatus. For example like a boss that only strong against plant/star unit. The calculation in the video will change based on the enemy's resistance. So, It is better to have characters that deals various damage. (reality & mental dmg).
@@spraygospel5539 the calculation is for comparison, of coz for different boss fights it will have different dmg output, but % wise, it should be the same. Big resistance for certain afflatus never exist since day 1, its always the case that we have afflatus advantage (deal 30%) more dmg against a certain afflatus. Plant deal more to star, star to mineral, mineral to beast, beast to plant. Intellect and spirit. Never we deal less if plant was attacking beast, beast attacking mineral. We just received more dmg from enemy we weak against.
And while we're crunching all those numbers Charlie can still SSS Mane's bulletin especially now that Vila is out and turns her into a Crit machine. And soon Semelweiss, which we'll get for free, with her HP sap will buff her even more and make sure she always meets her HP condition on top of it. Personally I want Windsong to have a "F*** off I win" unit if I struggle on Mane's bulletin because she's designed to mostly trivialize raids and I'm very ok with that. Lucy is true limited and doesn't share pity, bait, not interested. When true limited start sharing pity I'll look at them but if I don't get her with the free decalog, I'm not gonna cry over it. And after Windsong I skip everything until Tuesday since either I don't have the units to work well with them or I'm just not that impressed with their kits. And also by that time we'll have the first batch of Mane's bulletin character reworks and some of them get a real glow-up.
I only got Spathodea and Jiu as my dps, and Jiu has been a solid carry who can bruteforce most contents. I feel like Afflactus is not as important as damage types. 🤔
Im F2P and my account already heavily invested in the Reality teams, so Lucy seems to be the only sensible choice here to finish it off, and then after that I'll be able begin building the Mental teams.
Awesome and really informative and useful video, will be P1ing Windsong and P5ing Lucy into P5 Mercuria as i have saved hard to make it possible and i think its the most bang for my buck.
@Destr0th i have spent around 150 and saved very efficiently only investing anything more than necessary on p2 getian to maximize lucy so im sitting at 900 pulls atm. Thank you very much good sir! And i hope you get what you want too
windsong's unique mechanics makes me wanna pull for her and skip lucy, since lucy is just a killing machine and nothing really interesting on her kit other than her DMG maybe, so she's a skip for me. she's just another clicking simulator character tbh.
@@softyst if you have a solid roster already is not wrong going for either... Windsong does give you the satisfaction when clearing raid with millions of DMG
@@Destr0th i would say i have decent units so far, not at a point where I'm carefree but that doesn't matter, since i wanna enjoy the game with my fave chars instead of getting someone who just 1 shots everything which i honestly find boring.
@@naufalsyauqifillah6388 unfortunately not everything, lucy being able to solo raid bosses already says a lot and that's something windsong can barely do. Literally, every DPS in the game can one shot, but when I'm talking about 1 shots coming from Lucy then it's different to compare to other DPS.
Yes and no, Getian provides 40% dmg bonus to reality and reality Def down 15%, his debuff doesn't overwrite those from bkorn meaning they can stack, making him unique in that sense. But let's talk about team comp Lucy, Vila (she buff her incantations to deal more damage) then we have two more slots. Then maybe Getian and Isolde? But me who doesn't have Getian, I can add Pickles in, or Necrologist for dmg bonus. Or you can even have Bkorn in as well. Not a big lost if you got no Getian, don't worry about it. I am pretty sure also me having Pickles in the party as sub DPS will allow me to deal more dmg compared to Getian.
@@Destr0th yeah Lucy isolde getian vila sounds like the strongest team. I dont have getian but i plan to skip Windsong for (hopefully) P2 Lucy. Is getian rerun in 1.9? N between Lucy P1 or P2, which one do you think worth the most for f2p player?
@@MuhammadFariz69 I think Lucy P0, P2 Lucy make it easier to manage her buff as her buff is 3 rounds instead of 2 rounds. But if you check the rotation I show in the video, spam a lot of her incantation in the same round after she uses her Ulti, and then in the next. You can even get her Ulti ready just as the buff ends. So P2 felt a bit suboptimal in that sense. If you must go for portray P1 should be enough. Jiu I went for P3, cause I used her at P1 and I get so frustrated with the buffs lol
@@Destr0th True, n Lucy already strong on P0 anyway 😄 my pulls is limited so if i lose 50:50 maybe i just go for P0 n if i got lucky ill go for P1 then. Needs to save for Kakania n Getian if he rerun on 1.9 coz i dont have any beast support but Kakania is top priority. Ty for the info n great video bro 👍👍👍
Watching this video because I'm struggling with not having a good DPS, I just joined this last patch and managed to get Vila, who do you think is the better DPS in all content between Lucy and Windsong?
which psycube you recommend for a p5 lucy her signature amp 5 level 60 (consider the psycubes to their max potential) Steps Forward, Long Night Talk or Blasphemer of Night.
Steps Forward, especially because psychube effect uptime is increased with P2. Blasphemer of Night and Long Night Talk should perform similarly, but Steps Forward allows much more flexible team comps. Knock on the Door is decent if you run Isolde.
I recommend steps forward, the buff it provide is really good for her. Just that that one part of the stats I think bout 6% incantation might and 9% crit is tied to her Ulti [Forcefield] which last for 2 Rounds (including the round you casted the Ultimate), and fully maintain her Ultimate and buff active continuously is quite difficult at P0. But since you pointed out P5, then shouldn't be an issue at all.
I started playing a month ago and currently have druvis, an an lee, vila, eternity, and isolde. Should i get windsong or lucy? I don't have many mental dmg chars like Windsong but Lucy has a neutral afflatus so I'm not sure.
@@bakaman3441 I think save, if you check my suggestion or the rotation I lost in my excel, if done right, she can get her Ult pretty quickly and maintain her buff, but she will be really AP hungry, P2 make the management of the buff more comfortable. So if you learn her rotation, P0 should be good enough
Should I pull if I'm a new player? I've been using Regulus, Marcus, Isolde, Centurion and Vila for everything and haven't found any problems yet so idk if I need meta characters for other game modes
I'm actually triggered and angry right now. They promoted Jiu Niangzi as the strongest character to date even for future patches as she is Chinese and had a special promoted banner, which means, she might rerun again next year. And right after that, with that damn Russian event, we getting Windsong which is ten times stronger and better than her. What the actual fuck? Are they so much in love with fucking Russia that they start throwing shit to their own Chinese characters?
We've known about Windsong for a while and Lucy also and I think it's a bit weird to say Jiu was good because she was Chinese she was good because she was a Limited character, then people complained about a Limited character being too good, lo and behold Windsong releases 2 patches later.
Wow cool down haha Well to be fair I am not sure if this is what happened. But as I was calculating windsong's dmg, using the old tuning, she is actually not that much better than Jiu Niang Zi, and Jiu Niang Zi P0, when I calculated as well is with limited buff so she cannot throw out as much Follow-Up Atk, with support like 6 or sonetto or AAL, then Jiu Niang Zi at P0 is more comfortable to use and I think deal better dmg than a P0 Windsong. But due to complexity of Windsong kit (her kit is not as straightforward) she was really good in Raid but in most content, good luck landing on multiple copies of her incantations without wasting many turns, they introduce the new tuning to "fix" that and that end up making her really OP. I guess they overtuned her kit. But on the bright side is that if you have Jiu, especially higher portray, you are probably good for the new content as well. Limbo is easy, UTTU no problem, Roguelike also no issue for Jiu. And Limbo there is new one in 2.0 (not sure how Jiu is against that fight) but she is still relevant and one of the top DPS choice.
Thank for the analysis. And thank Bluepoch for not forcing us players to use the biggest baddest meta character to enjoy every content.
Welcome, so you pulling which of the two? Or skip all?
even that blue poch is generous enough so f2p can at least get one new chara every patch
@@elinamanansi5508 but I want every char in every patch ahhaha touch decision !
I don't know if my earlier comment came through or if it was deleted but here are my thoughts:
- Great video, I don't know much about calculations themselves but I love this because it also seals the deal on Jiu vs Windsong.
- I think calculating Windsong with [Measure] at max stacks is generous because each stack has an individual 2 round duration. Its rare that you get more than 5 stacks at a consistent pace.
- I think the fundamental question of who is better between Windsong and Lucy is only relevant if we make the assumption that they're balanced to our current content difficulty, which they aren't. Both these characters hit way above the required damage ceiling, effectively rendering their "specialties" irrelevant until the content catches up to them.
- Even in CN, the current Limbo6 bosses (Isolde and Kakania) have 70k and 80k health respectively. Windsong, despite being a so called "Raid Unit" can easily AUTO this within 3-5 rounds, this is comparable to Lucy. Again, if the totaled HP of the Limbo boss is 200k, and these two hit for 9 bajillion damage, it stops mattering who the damage is coming from (or in what form).
- Both of these characters are so good that they can hit a Raid S within 15 turns even if them and their entire team is i2 lvl50 P0 (tested by yours truly when Windsong first released in CN and later when Lucy did).
- Saying Windsong requires a huge amount of preparation to do anything is a bit disingenuous. The 1.9 Tuning and the increasing of player skill in general has allowed us to do still amazing damage even in other types of set-up such as 5 round Ultimate cycles.
- Fundamentally, you can categorize Windsong as a "Raid" unit and Lucy as a "General" unit based on that Windsong is single-target oriented and Lucy has a neutral Afflatus + Pragmatist + waveclear oriented kit, that's fine, but I don't see it as a defining argument in favor of either of the characters (they can do what the other can just fine).
- I still think Lucy is higher priority than Windsong given that Lucy is a limited character (and a bit more versatile given her Afflatus) but it ultimately comes down to the individual player preference and both will perform extremely well.
@@gordan_varn hey Gordan!! Thx for dropping by, haha to be honest one of the reasons I started calculating their damage was due to your post and Jakazin's video on the argument on Windsong Vs Lucy.
I watched some video from CN side on the new tuning and seeing how frequent we are able to use the function to grant 2 copies of precast S1 and S2 really made Windsong OP and easy to set-up. So players for to beware that Windsong in 1.8 and Windsong in 1.9 will feel and play differently.
Most I believe dislike Windsong playstyle is due to the RNG aspect of getting incantations and we be moving incantations around, merging them and all. But there is no need to stack until there are like 10 rank 3 incantations, but with smart use of the tuning and using her Ulti every 2-3 rounds (like any other DPS) she still does amazing dmg. I dare say on a dmg per round basis, using her Ulti every 3 rounds or so is better than waiting and continue to merge incantations. (Unless it's raid, then is different story, due to the Def reduction and Dmg reduction mechanics).
Anyway, I totally agree with you that they are currently way ahead of content difficulties and probably will last at least 6 months down.
@@gordan_varn oh by the way, your earlier comment didn't came through, cause I didn't receive any notification on it. Surely didn't delete your comment hahah
@@Destr0th Haha I'm honored to have inspired more discussion surrounding these two rather than just writing one off for the other. Ultimately it just comes down to who people like more, but since they're both mother it's difficult to decide :P
@@gordan_varn worse is they have to put them one after the other!
one thing to note, the enemy recently have a specialized resistance/defence based on the damage type (reality or mental).
and now, very few I see that an enemy that has a big resistance for a certain affliatus.
For example like a boss that only strong against plant/star unit.
The calculation in the video will change based on the enemy's resistance.
So, It is better to have characters that deals various damage. (reality & mental dmg).
@@spraygospel5539 the calculation is for comparison, of coz for different boss fights it will have different dmg output, but % wise, it should be the same.
Big resistance for certain afflatus never exist since day 1, its always the case that we have afflatus advantage (deal 30%) more dmg against a certain afflatus.
Plant deal more to star, star to mineral, mineral to beast, beast to plant. Intellect and spirit. Never we deal less if plant was attacking beast, beast attacking mineral.
We just received more dmg from enemy we weak against.
And while we're crunching all those numbers Charlie can still SSS Mane's bulletin especially now that Vila is out and turns her into a Crit machine. And soon Semelweiss, which we'll get for free, with her HP sap will buff her even more and make sure she always meets her HP condition on top of it. Personally I want Windsong to have a "F*** off I win" unit if I struggle on Mane's bulletin because she's designed to mostly trivialize raids and I'm very ok with that. Lucy is true limited and doesn't share pity, bait, not interested. When true limited start sharing pity I'll look at them but if I don't get her with the free decalog, I'm not gonna cry over it. And after Windsong I skip everything until Tuesday since either I don't have the units to work well with them or I'm just not that impressed with their kits. And also by that time we'll have the first batch of Mane's bulletin character reworks and some of them get a real glow-up.
been playing from day one and don't have any 6* beast character dps yet, so I'll have to give up Winsong for Lucy to help me out a bit
@@Rdfaiz then u shouldn't skip on Lucy, cause Lucy cover for all Afflatus
I only got Spathodea and Jiu as my dps, and Jiu has been a solid carry who can bruteforce most contents. I feel like Afflactus is not as important as damage types. 🤔
Yup lately it becoming so that we don't need afflatus bonus to win a fight, last time it was quite mandatory to win limbo
Im F2P and my account already heavily invested in the Reality teams, so Lucy seems to be the only sensible choice here to finish it off, and then after that I'll be able begin building the Mental teams.
@@Rdfaiz oh I read your message wrongly, I thought u gonna skip Lucy, good luck bro! 3.5 more weeks for lucy
Awesome and really informative and useful video, will be P1ing Windsong and P5ing Lucy into P5 Mercuria as i have saved hard to make it possible and i think its the most bang for my buck.
@@franciscojose4556 wow P5 each Lucy and Mercuria, that's insane.. good luck bro , I hope to just get P0 for them
@Destr0th i have spent around 150 and saved very efficiently only investing anything more than necessary on p2 getian to maximize lucy so im sitting at 900 pulls atm. Thank you very much good sir! And i hope you get what you want too
@@franciscojose4556 wow 900 pullsssss !
windsong's unique mechanics makes me wanna pull for her and skip lucy, since lucy is just a killing machine and nothing really interesting on her kit other than her DMG maybe, so she's a skip for me. she's just another clicking simulator character tbh.
@@softyst if you have a solid roster already is not wrong going for either... Windsong does give you the satisfaction when clearing raid with millions of DMG
@@Destr0th i would say i have decent units so far, not at a point where I'm carefree but that doesn't matter, since i wanna enjoy the game with my fave chars instead of getting someone who just 1 shots everything which i honestly find boring.
Wdymn windsong literally oneshot anything too lol
@@naufalsyauqifillah6388 unfortunately not everything, lucy being able to solo raid bosses already says a lot and that's something windsong can barely do. Literally, every DPS in the game can one shot, but when I'm talking about 1 shots coming from Lucy then it's different to compare to other DPS.
@@softyst wth so you mean lucy oneshot is diff with any DPS who can oneshot enemy too 🤣
I tried 10 on her banner and got her with lilya and now saving for lucy and kakania
Btw do you have getian bro? N is it true that getian is the best support for Lucy?
Yes and no, Getian provides 40% dmg bonus to reality and reality Def down 15%, his debuff doesn't overwrite those from bkorn meaning they can stack, making him unique in that sense. But let's talk about team comp
Lucy, Vila (she buff her incantations to deal more damage) then we have two more slots. Then maybe Getian and Isolde?
But me who doesn't have Getian, I can add Pickles in, or Necrologist for dmg bonus. Or you can even have Bkorn in as well. Not a big lost if you got no Getian, don't worry about it. I am pretty sure also me having Pickles in the party as sub DPS will allow me to deal more dmg compared to Getian.
@@Destr0th yeah Lucy isolde getian vila sounds like the strongest team. I dont have getian but i plan to skip Windsong for (hopefully) P2 Lucy. Is getian rerun in 1.9? N between Lucy P1 or P2, which one do you think worth the most for f2p player?
@@MuhammadFariz69 I think Lucy P0, P2 Lucy make it easier to manage her buff as her buff is 3 rounds instead of 2 rounds. But if you check the rotation I show in the video, spam a lot of her incantation in the same round after she uses her Ulti, and then in the next. You can even get her Ulti ready just as the buff ends. So P2 felt a bit suboptimal in that sense. If you must go for portray P1 should be enough.
Jiu I went for P3, cause I used her at P1 and I get so frustrated with the buffs lol
@@Destr0th True, n Lucy already strong on P0 anyway 😄 my pulls is limited so if i lose 50:50 maybe i just go for P0 n if i got lucky ill go for P1 then. Needs to save for Kakania n Getian if he rerun on 1.9 coz i dont have any beast support but Kakania is top priority. Ty for the info n great video bro 👍👍👍
@@MuhammadFariz69 ah good luck man, I hope my luck would be good too cause I also want kakania and then Joe after that
Watching this video because I'm struggling with not having a good DPS, I just joined this last patch and managed to get Vila, who do you think is the better DPS in all content between Lucy and Windsong?
@@Nighterion7 if u are new, get Lucy
สุดยอดดดดดด
which psycube you recommend for a p5 lucy her signature amp 5 level 60 (consider the psycubes to their max potential) Steps Forward, Long Night Talk or Blasphemer of Night.
Steps Forward, especially because psychube effect uptime is increased with P2. Blasphemer of Night and Long Night Talk should perform similarly, but Steps Forward allows much more flexible team comps. Knock on the Door is decent if you run Isolde.
I recommend steps forward, the buff it provide is really good for her. Just that that one part of the stats I think bout 6% incantation might and 9% crit is tied to her Ulti [Forcefield] which last for 2 Rounds (including the round you casted the Ultimate), and fully maintain her Ultimate and buff active continuously is quite difficult at P0. But since you pointed out P5, then shouldn't be an issue at all.
I started playing a month ago and currently have druvis, an an lee, vila, eternity, and isolde. Should i get windsong or lucy? I don't have many mental dmg chars like Windsong but Lucy has a neutral afflatus so I'm not sure.
@@cucumberswithmayonnaise I personally recommend Lucy, but Windsong is also strong and trivialise all content, atleast until version 2.1
I can reach 200 pulls at lucy bannar ... Should I spend all pulls to get her p2? or should I save for another characters?
@@bakaman3441 I think save, if you check my suggestion or the rotation I lost in my excel, if done right, she can get her Ult pretty quickly and maintain her buff, but she will be really AP hungry, P2 make the management of the buff more comfortable. So if you learn her rotation, P0 should be good enough
@@Destr0th thank you
Do you think go for a P2 lucy worth it?
Or it would be better having windsong P0 and P1 lucy?
@@adolflolucas603 hi I think both are already very strong at P0
Should I pull if I'm a new player? I've been using Regulus, Marcus, Isolde, Centurion and Vila for everything and haven't found any problems yet so idk if I need meta characters for other game modes
Hmm, I personally think u should get Lucy, since she fills the role of all Afflatus DPS
I'm actually triggered and angry right now. They promoted Jiu Niangzi as the strongest character to date even for future patches as she is Chinese and had a special promoted banner, which means, she might rerun again next year. And right after that, with that damn Russian event, we getting Windsong which is ten times stronger and better than her. What the actual fuck? Are they so much in love with fucking Russia that they start throwing shit to their own Chinese characters?
We've known about Windsong for a while and Lucy also and I think it's a bit weird to say Jiu was good because she was Chinese she was good because she was a Limited character, then people complained about a Limited character being too good, lo and behold Windsong releases 2 patches later.
Why are you bringing races into this 😶🌫️🧐 Lucy is the strongest dps and she’s a robot…
wow wow that's some childish behaviour, let's not bring up countries, it's just gacha meta powercreep stuff
Wow cool down haha
Well to be fair I am not sure if this is what happened.
But as I was calculating windsong's dmg, using the old tuning, she is actually not that much better than Jiu Niang Zi, and Jiu Niang Zi P0, when I calculated as well is with limited buff so she cannot throw out as much Follow-Up Atk, with support like 6 or sonetto or AAL, then Jiu Niang Zi at P0 is more comfortable to use and I think deal better dmg than a P0 Windsong.
But due to complexity of Windsong kit (her kit is not as straightforward) she was really good in Raid but in most content, good luck landing on multiple copies of her incantations without wasting many turns, they introduce the new tuning to "fix" that and that end up making her really OP. I guess they overtuned her kit.
But on the bright side is that if you have Jiu, especially higher portray, you are probably good for the new content as well. Limbo is easy, UTTU no problem, Roguelike also no issue for Jiu. And Limbo there is new one in 2.0 (not sure how Jiu is against that fight) but she is still relevant and one of the top DPS choice.
I think she wont rerun again they would just create a new limited character