@ZlotDrop You're right. I wrote an article to accompany this video that clarifies that this theory only applies before minions have spawned. At that point, the incentives change and you can't always leave two lanes unguarded.
@ithinkimemo04 "Winning" means doing the best you possibly can. Here, the best you possibly can do is break even with your opponent. (Conceivably, if your opponent is stupid, you can also win if you play 5 and they play 1-4.)
Does Nash Equilibrium come from John Nash? I just watched A Beautiful Mind and thought it was a bit too much to be a coincidence, and also thanks for uploading these videos, I find them interesting :)
I really like the idea of applying game theory to popualar games, but for League of Legends and every defense of the ancients spinoff I have played, there two costs for sending troops to attack and leave their current lane: 1.Leave a lane completely empty, and you get none of the money income from that lane. 2.The more troops in one lane, the less strong each troop gets over time (all troops in these types of game get stronger over time while in a lane) Sendin 5 troops to one lane is costly.
Oooh League of Legends. I see how this applies but you still have to remember that the game has other varying factors to take in. Interesting theory however and I just thought of a way to utilize this! Take your whole team and gank the 2 that went top, well its 5 to 2 and they will try to run but with the right makeup you can get them. After that proceed to mid and take them out. If bottom hasn't caught on yet take 5 down there but if they have then pass and everyone go to their lane.
William, I will be matriculating at UC San Diego this fall as a freshman. I'm looking to double major in Political Science and Economics. Did you take Game Theory at UCSD? If so, what teacher would you recommend, and what year would you recommend taking it? Thanks
@224804 Because it shows that if your going to gank or something its only worth doing it if you have 1 or more players.. Its pretty complicated and takes a while to understand but if you think about it, it starts to make sense.
@Hyronious this doesnt answer my question what i want to know is how-if you base your decision to send X in order to win-that can possibly explain how a 4v5 victory is possible i want to know is that in these situations where the odds are against you and you win is if the players who beat the odds considered to equal a larger number of players than they really represent. In my question assume you have a 3v5 scenario and assume the 3 win. is that 3 = to a sum value greater than or equal to 5?
@sacredknight60 Obviously for a complex game like LoL there are far more factors than pure numbers. Therefore, the theory is a lot more complicated than a 6x6 grid. However, think about it. If you know there is going to be a team fight, you would send as many available players as possible into it wouldn't you? The strategy of how doesn't matter, just that you actually send as many players as possible into the battle to ensure the highest chance of winning.
@sacredknight60 obviously there are other factors to account for. You're trying to maximize your chance of winning, and even though you may win a 3v5 , its chance and you got lucky on it. LoL is tough because you have other factors like levelling, dps, tanks, and so forth. You miss the point of the video completely by thinking this was designed for LoL
Social Influence, Maximization of Productivity and Power(RTS Starcraft 2) Long story short equal level players, using good builds and actively moving in map. Builds are equal and gain no economic or utility in their playstyle forcing change. Going from MMM ball in TvT to an air build or siege tank, maybe GGG. Fog of war isn't conducive to Game Theory equilibrium or balance. It's practically Dandori Pikmin 4 logic with people you command. You build it up its handling them instead of bossing them to death unless you argue politic like Franz Ferdinand or covering the GGG ops. Prick Mode Activate: Sid Miers Civilization 7 or so, newest one. Cultures growth of city state and management of Civilization you run in diplomacy and people managing. Only in real time like Earth present instead of Turn based. If it was turn based be hella empty rest of day.
Umm I found you via league of legends and not sure how your math in safety in numbers can truly apply to LOL. And i state this because obviously there are games when I can carry 4v5. now i realize that in sense i must be fed or playing well but other times it is just that the 4 of us are better than all 5 of them. so what say you to that? is this explained by one player being the equivalent of 2 players or something like that?
+Veto2090 In the mid-game, after players have obtained a high number of money and items, they tend to group together and then go down some number of paths. Consider what happens when the 5 players on each side decide how many characters they will send to attack from the top lane.
@ZlotDrop You're right. I wrote an article to accompany this video that clarifies that this theory only applies before minions have spawned. At that point, the incentives change and you can't always leave two lanes unguarded.
Hey, more than a decade has passed by and I am here to tell you that these videos are really informative and thought provoking so good job.
@ithinkimemo04 "Winning" means doing the best you possibly can. Here, the best you possibly can do is break even with your opponent. (Conceivably, if your opponent is stupid, you can also win if you play 5 and they play 1-4.)
@nahaymath mind DOT ucsd DOT edu has a complete intro course. It was my undergrad course.
@ICarnag3I Mostly self-taught, and I had taken a graduate level game theory class when I started these videos.
Safety in numbers? More like “Sweet, there’s another” video! Thanks again for making and sharing each one in this playlist.
6:18 A strange game...The only way to win is not to play.
The Holy MOTHER Ten Months late but...OMG War Games :D :D :D :D :D :D
Holy crap. I was just casually looking through this at 2:22 AM, when I heard 'League of Legends' and suddenly was a lot more awake. Nice one.
Since when did he say that?
Thanks for not using the cliche "two drivers are on a road..." demonstration.
@TheJoK3RHD Yes, it is from him.
@SonOfNye I have no idea, I am a political science PhD student.
Thank you for making an educational video on this topic that is concise and easily understood.
Does Nash Equilibrium come from John Nash? I just watched A Beautiful Mind and thought it was a bit too much to be a coincidence, and also thanks for uploading these videos, I find them interesting :)
@ghosty121212 Undergrad was UC San Diego and grad school is University of Rochester.
Nice work - thank you for sharing
@Xavygravy Yes, it is called "weak dominance."
I really like the idea of applying game theory to popualar games, but for League of Legends and every defense of the ancients spinoff I have played, there two costs for sending troops to attack and leave their current lane:
1.Leave a lane completely empty, and you get none of the money income from that lane.
2.The more troops in one lane, the less strong each troop gets over time (all troops in these types of game get stronger over time while in a lane)
Sendin 5 troops to one lane is costly.
@TheOneBlackSheep1973 Well that's a non-sequitur.
strategy is always bring 5. U can never lose and worst case scenerio end in a draw, but x amount of time u win
Or you pass, if you know (or highly suspect) you can't win the said battle.
Oooh League of Legends.
I see how this applies but you still have to remember that the game has other varying factors to take in. Interesting theory however and I just thought of a way to utilize this! Take your whole team and gank the 2 that went top, well its 5 to 2 and they will try to run but with the right makeup you can get them. After that proceed to mid and take them out. If bottom hasn't caught on yet take 5 down there but if they have then pass and everyone go to their lane.
William, I will be matriculating at UC San Diego this fall as a freshman. I'm looking to double major in Political Science and Economics. Did you take Game Theory at UCSD? If so, what teacher would you recommend, and what year would you recommend taking it? Thanks
@224804 Because it shows that if your going to gank or something its only worth doing it if you have 1 or more players.. Its pretty complicated and takes a while to understand but if you think about it, it starts to make sense.
@Hyronious this doesnt answer my question what i want to know is how-if you base your decision to send X in order to win-that can possibly explain how a 4v5 victory is possible i want to know is that in these situations where the odds are against you and you win is if the players who beat the odds considered to equal a larger number of players than they really represent. In my question assume you have a 3v5 scenario and assume the 3 win. is that 3 = to a sum value greater than or equal to 5?
Love your content man
@sacredknight60 Obviously for a complex game like LoL there are far more factors than pure numbers. Therefore, the theory is a lot more complicated than a 6x6 grid. However, think about it. If you know there is going to be a team fight, you would send as many available players as possible into it wouldn't you? The strategy of how doesn't matter, just that you actually send as many players as possible into the battle to ensure the highest chance of winning.
@sacredknight60 obviously there are other factors to account for. You're trying to maximize your chance of winning, and even though you may win a 3v5 , its chance and you got lucky on it. LoL is tough because you have other factors like levelling, dps, tanks, and so forth. You miss the point of the video completely by thinking this was designed for LoL
aren't you supposed to win the game not to be equal with your opponent..?
im sorry kinda new to this game theory thing...
Social Influence, Maximization of Productivity and Power(RTS Starcraft 2)
Long story short equal level players, using good builds and actively moving in map. Builds are equal and gain no economic or utility in their playstyle forcing change. Going from MMM ball in TvT to an air build or siege tank, maybe GGG. Fog of war isn't conducive to Game Theory equilibrium or balance.
It's practically Dandori Pikmin 4 logic with people you command. You build it up its handling them instead of bossing them to death unless you argue politic like Franz Ferdinand or covering the GGG ops.
Prick Mode Activate: Sid Miers Civilization 7 or so, newest one. Cultures growth of city state and management of Civilization you run in diplomacy and people managing. Only in real time like Earth present instead of Turn based. If it was turn based be hella empty rest of day.
Umm I found you via league of legends and not sure how your math in safety in numbers can truly apply to LOL. And i state this because obviously there are games when I can carry 4v5. now i realize that in sense i must be fed or playing well but other times it is just that the 4 of us are better than all 5 of them. so what say you to that? is this explained by one player being the equivalent of 2 players or something like that?
ya how do you use it in league of legends
How does this apply to league of Legends?
+Veto2090 In the mid-game, after players have obtained a high number of money and items, they tend to group together and then go down some number of paths. Consider what happens when the 5 players on each side decide how many characters they will send to attack from the top lane.
Common sense stuff
ew....LoL....
not as in laugh out loud.