UK Parliament Discussing Predatory Lootbox / Microtransaction with EA / Epic Games
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- A video transcript from the UK Parliament hearing that took place on Wednesday 19 June 2019 with the subject of discussing online video games with predatory lootbox / microtransaction schemes and how it can affect children. Principle accused companies are from EA and Epic Games
Subject: Immersive and addictive technologies
Witnesses: Shaun Campbell, UK Country Manager, and Kerry Hopkins, Vice President, Legal and Government Affairs, Electronic Arts, and Matthew Weissinger, Director of Marketing, and Canon Pence, General Counsel, Epic Games
Source : parliamentlive...
1:14:14 The infamous moment when the representatives from EA said lootboxes are not lootboxes but are "surprise mechanics" and they're both "fun and ethical"
Just what I came to see lol
Fahim Doula Whats her name
@@Howiebrosome She's Kerry Hopkins, Vice President, Legal and Government Affairs, Electronic Arts. All the other 3 representative members from EA and Epic Games names are on the video description.
SURPRISE!!! Your wallet is empty!
*cough* *cough* I mean bank account
They look like the students that went to the exam unprepared
Except this time it is the student who came for education grilled them to ash
Misfits
Came to an exam unprepared after being told the questions
To me, they also look like Seymour Krelborn from "Little Shop of Horrors", if the cops were to come in and ask questions, while Audrey II was still in the middle of sucking some corpses dry of their blood.
I don't think there is a way to prepare for this xD It's more like the students who got caught doing something illegal / against school policy, and this is them explaining themselves to the Dean / Principle. There is NO possible argument for what they did, and that's why they're using all the logical fallacies in the book x)
Well isn’t this ironic. 4 representatives acting like loot boxes
Price:Ask A Question.
Result: get a bunch of bs
too good
that was deep amen
Judges: Do believe your company is based on in game purchases?
EA & Epic: Good question, for $9.99 we’ll answer with an emote.
Or with an exclusive answer locked behind one of our fun walls that play with your wallet
It should be valve and EA because the difference is that with a game like fortnite that has a market you know what you are buying so it's your fault if you buy it.
With EA and valve loot boxes hardwire your brain into a system of buying again and again and again and again for that .002% chance drop that you should be allowed to buy for a set surcharge.
@@pepsicola4718 fortnite has also lootboxes for the "Save the world" paid mode so there's that. Besides, due to the huge success of fortnite and the colossal playerbase, I think it's the perfect company to talk about psychological issues (or lack thereof).
@@othmaneaouioued8768 Ah, you're right. I forgot about that since I never bought save the world. In that case I take back what I said about Fortnite, I still want to press Valve though because they have been doing it in such a lazy way and I want them to make games again.
@@pepsicola4718 They will change believe me, epic has taken a lot of indie games and pretty much almost all triple a releases this year (metro exodus, the division 2, the outer worlds, shenmue 3, borderlands 3, ghost recon breakpoint.. ) and upcoming releases (watch dogs legion) especially from ubisoft which far cry new dawn was the only release they put on steam (was probably planned before the existence of epic game store, steam has certainly realized that this has to change they are just waiting for epic to fall and the current public sentiment (or gamer sentiment if you wish) are supporting them heavily (they should steam is a much better store but it's a double edge sword) but the billions they got from fortnite (and that doesn't seem to be going anytime soon) they can bring all games if they want, and major publishers have agreed to their terms (ubisoft and deep silver especially) not to release their games on steam (some games for a limited time). When gamers will see that almost all triple A games are not released on steam, they will either buy from epic or pirate (denuvo and shit) that's a story for another time.
Give em hell, Parliament. Hope we’ll be able to have the same trials here in the States.
It will be a shitshow of hilarious proportions. USA politicians are much less polite compared to the parliament.
God I hope so
nice terror in resonance pfp, honestly an underrated show imo
@@Reysan7 I wouldn't hold your breath mate, did you see when your polititians interviewed Google and Mark Zuckerberg. it was a shit show alright haha. JK JK
@@Reysan7 Ray Sanchez they are also idiots when it comes to technology. Watching them talk to Mark Zuckerberg was horrifying
This is how you interview these companies
I know, when EGS said that they would refund money if they can prove a child bought them, I said to myself "how can they prove it"? When the guy asked that same question right after I did, I was so happy LOL
@@n7aven6er29 Same here. When he waffled on about issues being addressed without escalation, that doesn't meant that refunds are given. It could mean they refuse and close the ticket down. Ultimate question dodging being displayed here. And everyone knows Epic categorise Fortnite players by recurrent user spending. My home country of the UK need to regulate this
@Zetarn 8:0 I think
Agreed. He's awesome
"...can't create a PlayStation account without a parent..." Wow, this is nowhere near a true statement.
Completely disconnected from reality. Truly a politician.
It's legally true though, and quite explicit on-screen. A child can and will still lie, obviously, but how would you create a system to prevent that? And should you need to?
@@@DaemonEX0 I always felt that a lot of blames were put everywhere beside on the parents, they should look out for a bit of everything with these things if they are concerned, if they aren't then your kid can work it out on his/her own. I've seen it too often, almost as if companies should have a tray that pop out to check out your DNA and carbon date your ass -_-
@@DaemonEX0 Proof of age would solve that if proof of age cant be provided assume person is underage and request further identification would make the process of setting a console up incredibly tedious and could possibly still be cheated but better than nothing doesnt matter anymore in the uk though after this debacle gov regs are for certain incoming what form these will take is quite frankly beyond me as i have no idea how politicians will react to this situation im personally leaning to parliament being heavy handed.
@@NuclearFallout1 No way I'm sending in a copy of my ID to a giant gaming corporation for them to "safely" store.
a norwegian psychologist actually tested Fifa 18 ultimate team cards pack by buying, no joke, 6992 cards with he used $4268 and none of them was the top 9 best players that Fifa players really want. he also had with him 7400 participated in his research that have similar results, and they ended up feeling that they were given less then they gaved, don't know about you but that does't sound fun to me
Glenn T K Someone did something similar and spent $13,000 and couldn’t make the best team possible.
Wow that will show the companies
"ended up feeling that they were given less then they gave" is literally gambling. I hope they take these fuckers down.
sounds like this game has 100% house edge lmao, i hope ea shut down soon before the greed causes any more harm
Perama Fernando that’d be nice however they’d find some damn good lawyers somewhere
A 2-hour court hearing is somehow more entertaining to watch than most of EA's and Epic's games are to play.
This is not a court hearing.
@@Strongholdex It is
@@gxd-df5qgNo, it is a parliamentary hearing. Also, quite a surprisingly undemocratic one. The members of parliament evidence they would like to establish a lock on how much a person can play video games on average. This reminds me of China where players are not granted the right to enjoy their games for more than three hours per day. Furthermore, the representatives did not explain that excessive gaming derives of other causes, like bad parents, bullying, etc. . I feel a pattern here in this hearing. It is not the fault of the parents for buying their kids a gaming pc and allowing them to play excessively, no, it is the fault of the game, which I am highly distasted of.
To put things short: those members of parliament advocate a massive intrusion in our privacy, just because of malbehaving kids that do not listen to their weak parents. The gaming industry is responsible for delivering good games and there are checks in place. These persons however entice Epic and EA for not allowing access to kids that play excessively. So what are we supposed to do: send our passport when we buy a digital game on a storefront or when we register, just because some lazy parents can't control their kids and are like 'I am fed up. I'll buy a gaming pc and I won't bother about my child anymore but if something goes wrong I blame the game, not my lazyness' ? Ridiculous.
The gaming industry is responsible for delivering good products, but good god it is not responsible for restricting access for its users.
People that drink 5-6 liter water will die because of that. So should we not be allowed to buy more than 4 liters of water?
@@Strongholdex I don't know much so I'm not going to argue.
@@Strongholdex Or...
They could just force the ESRB and others to make games with gambling automatically 18?
This woman said “People enjoy getting packs.” I’m pretty sure nobody likes spending hundreds of dollars on loot boxes and enjoys opening them lmao.
Addicts most likely.
So what is the calibre of the handgun that they have to their heads when they are "spending hundreds of dollars"? It's not the cure for cancer they're buying, it's not basic needs.... it's extras for a console game, so why do they do it?
See this is my point, everyone keeps complaining about two things:
- how horribly despicable lootboxes are
- how much money EA is making
those two concepts should not co-exist and both be true at the same time in the gaming industry, they are either horrible, in which case no one should buy them, or everyone buy them and they are making shit tons of money... full stop.
@@gzmdesign the problem comments is a you make the assumption that the people complaining are the people buying the loot boxes. If half of your customer base is complaining about something there still another half of that customer base isn't complaining who could be possibly buying the loot boxes and I only say this because you use the word everyone in your comments.
That being said I would still like to address the rest of your comment.
Free early game loot boxes through progression.
These free loot boxes contain very good items and they're free.
Lights and sounds play Whenever you open a loot box releasing chemicals in the brain giving a feeling of euphoria, and don't forget this is happening on those FREE early game loot boxes that have VERY GOOD items.
Now you've gotten a couple of free early game loot boxes with good items now you're convinced that the drop rate in these loot boxes are fair.
Everything I've just mentioned exist in casinos there be in slightly different forms. Slots being referred to as loose is the same as pretending to have a high drop rate for rare item. The spectacle slots make before you find out if you won or loss is the saying thing loot boxes do before they open(euphoria). On games in which you get loot boxes through progression you get them very quickly and often because leveling up from low-level is easier than leveling up from a high so basically you're getting a whole bunch of them for free early on and then hardly any late-game encouraging you to buy them. When a casino comps you, it's all in service to try to get you to play more. So no they don't have a gun to anyone's head but their tactics are still predatory and of the same tactics that cansinos use but they're using those tactics on children which is the problem.
Grim Jr. I said it on another reply, if the consensus becomes (it’s not there yet) that these loot boxes are gambling, then I agree 100000% they should only be on 18+ games... but I still think that kids are not responsible enough to have access to an account with a credit card unsupervised. You wouldn’t give your child your card and drop him at the toy store saying “just buy responsibly”, this is exactly the same. And that is 100 % mum and dad’s fault... they should try parenting a little, it’s fun honestly.
And the other big point raised on this hearing, time spent in front of the game, this is ALL mum and dads responsibility, EA shouldn’t be responsible for building stops on their games so you have to take a break, what nonsense is that?! Dad should go “right, that’s an hour, bed time” full stop... what is wrong with the world that we are blaming game makers for our lack of willingness to parent appropriately?!
@@Grimjr7 I'm not reading that
Q: "What is the longest session you have had on at 1 time?"
A: "the data we are able to gather shows that they've connected to the game not how long they play"
60 seconds later : "We collect data on how features are used, how often they're used, whether they're facing frustration or not"
Excuse me miss overlord, you can't tell how long a person played consecutively but you can tell how frustrated someone is?
I was kind of sad that the person questioning didn't catch on to the 'we can see how many games a player partakes in a session,' bit. Because that was a glaring opportunity.
I'm an unaffiliated indie developer, but may be able to shed some light on this. It's about the way data is gathered. In this case, social media workers within a company will likely pick up on these frustrations from reading about them, which is then reported to a development team. After all, no amount of bug-fixing and playtesting will be as informative as proper consumers playing a game.
Also, simply tracking the time a program is active is generally unhelpful; but looking at metrics of active player activity can tell you a lot more. Especially on terms of sales; it's more interesting to see which particular features get looked at what number of times than how long someone is playing the core gameplay loop or simply having the program started, but sitting idly.
@@DaemonEX0 Thanks for that explanation. It's informative. There is a separate issue here. You said "tracking the time a program is active is generally unhelpful". But you didn't say it wasn't possible.
The problem here is, what they want to know is, how long has a person played for consecutively, to prevent deaths like in china where some people drop dead from overplaying.
What the guy was getting at is, if the game has been running for 24 hours, is that unhealthy? If a person plays that long, do you have an obligation to cut them out like a bartender saying you had one too many?
They don't want to say how long the longest session was because if they said "we have people who run our game for a month" would rightfully raise eyebrows.
What they wanted is the average play time per week and Steam displays that for every user on every game already so they don't need to answer that.
@@Paragon.. It's very frustrating to see sensible questions dodged by both EA and Epic, and answered with fake marketting speeches. I think you're on the right track with your comment though.
It seems like they're avoiding answering as to prevent leading questions, but that's speculation on my part. It's very easy to say "Ah, this person has played the game for over twelve hours on a day, clearly something must be done!", but that behaviour might still have a perfectly healthy context. Conversely, a child who's obsessed with Fortnite might only play an hour a day because of strict parenting, but might still be obsessed with it in an unhealthy way.
This complicates the bartender analogue, since unhealthy usage is incredibly individual. Unlike alcohol, gaming, or even engaging with MTX ridden messes, isn't inherently unhealthy. Even worse, limiting access to a product you have invested in, or perhaps especially because you've invested in it is a terrible way to handle a product. "Sorry, can't play, policing algorithm said it might be unhealthy for me because I had a day off yesterday/bought some cosmetics earlier/shared my account as my partner played on my account." Now that'd be disastrous, haha.
This puts the publisher in a tricky position. It's like asking a TV series producer if some people binge their show to unhealthy degrees. Some people almost certainly do, but it's hardly fair to media providers themselves to police that usage, right?
However, since the politicians attending seem to be from a generation that is underrepresented in the gaming audience, they don't compare the media fairly. It makes sense from their perspective, but it's always rather grating to watch.
The stories about MTX mishaps remind me a lot of the outrage about games with adult themes. Parents will fail to protect their kids from content that they shouldn't be exposed to, and children will lie to misuse their caretakers money. It's always excellent if companies create tools to make this easier for the parents, (as Epic has done with Fortnite), but that's never an excuse for negligent parenting.
do you have a time stamp for that moment?
I love when the lady from parliament says "It's a simple question really." She doesn't want to hear their bullshit 😂
Timestamp please
@@cupcakemcsparklebutt9051 38:11
It's so surprising they can't afford a better representative for such greedy companies.
They couldn't program her in time for the release date.
I think part of it is its difficult to even defend these shit so this is the best the can come up with, its so blatantly unethical and predatory
@@Reysan7
At least EA and Bioware has a roadmap in place to finally get her up to snuff.
Kinda hard to convincingly say that gravity points upward and the sun darkens the planet.
would be outside of their budget together with quality games
"We disagree with statement that Epic makes money from people playing it. The battle royal mode is free to play"
Oh yeah, you are charity organisation, and those are "donations", ofcourse!
They aren't...technically! Buying MTX and playing the game are two separate things!
@@boobehry thats make sense... in technical way!
Demascus they’d still make money, Epic games being the platform it is receives millions from advertisers. Like one of the most recent Air Jordan sponsors, Avengers, Disney etc.
they are just opening opportunities for the parliament members to roast them lol
They don't make money from people playing Battle Royale though, they make money from people playing battle royale with custom avatars. No perks, no boosts just cosmetics.
This is better than a movie! I have the perfect title for it
"When liars choke with their own lies"
"Part 1: The Fall of EA"
@@XBeVo503X
"Part 2: the death of microtransaction abusing companies"
We prefer to call them "Surprise falsehoods", not "lies"
@@Erebus2075 "Part 3: A new hope." XD.
look at those faces, how serious they are...I recognise tha faces of people that know they are lying for money, those are faces of people that sold their souls.
You can tell from the video that both representatives from EA and Epic Games are trying to weasel their way out of answering straight questions about predatory lootboxes and microtransaction, how it harms video games and children engaging with those predatory mechanics but are stumbling and stuttering to come up with excuses to avert answering those questions, especially from Epic Games people. At some points, even the representatives from EA had to step in to answer questions asked towards people from Epic Games because they were royally screwing up.
Equally the politicians here clearly don't know anything about the video gaming climate
Really?! I don't game at all but I do not believe it's the responsibility of the developers to controll how much time or money a child spends playing a game.... DO SOME FUCKING PARENTING! People set up kids with accounts and credit cards on it and fuck off to live thier lives away from their kids and then they scream and shout when the kids spend too much time or money on games?!
@@gzmdesign while I agree the parents are responsible for their children's actions, the predatory mechanisms in games shouldn't be excused for it. The gaming industry is trying everything to make children addicted to spending money in games, and it's unbelievable how many games nowadays are designed in a way, to put progression road blocks that requires real money purchases of chance-based rewards (without disclosing the actual chances) or creating a competitive environment where money equals power.
The matter is only made worse that ratings organizations such as ESA, which is supposed to warn parents of these practices, are sponsored by the game companies, and have pushed the narrative that real money in-game gambling (edit: even in games rated for all ages) is "fun" and " ethical" from the very start.
@@gzmdesign Not to mention you vastly underestimate the control a parent can have over a child at all hours of a day and access to things on the internet. I see them compare this why haven't you taken efforts like alcohol well simply it's much easier to single out a child versus an adult when they are physically present. These online games are targeted a children yet have no way to stop a child from taking a parents credit card or using a parents unfamiliarity with games or the internet in general. As now a days you can easily save payment information Ebay does it amazon does it, many online platforms do this as well as many games. Not all parents are directly aware of when or how their information is saved and a kid can easily get permission to buy something the parent can watch and not realize their information has been saved. My parents for instance know very little about the internet and online practices, so usually I am the one to fix things that they might accidentally do unknowingly. Most online industries like amazon and ebay are more than willing to reimburse or fix these issues as they understand not every is 100% knowledgeable of these things. So I wouldn't put the whole blame on parents the internet is relatively new for many parents and these systems didn't exist for some of them, challenging them to 100% understand how something works or be an export on something companies spends billions of dollars researching and developing is just asking way to much. These games are designed to entice not just children but adults, much like casino the main difference is casino's are heavily regulated. Games even though they operate in similar ways and utilize people's brain chemistry i.e. dopamine productions and developing addictions as well as creating repetition. Much of which was talked about in this discussion the principles of games targeting people with gambling addictions. Casino's will run you dry but their is already a social stigma to them and a social contract, kid's can't gamble, people with addictive tendencies need to be helped and monitored. Games currently don't have any of this and in a modern age these same principles that people thought were a waste of time need to be developed no matter what the nay sayers may say, as minimum drinking, driving, gambling, smoking age was created for the same reasons though took much time and effort as many people opposed the idea but now a days most people would think anyone who doesn't agree having a minimum age for drinking or driving is crazy though that is hindsight bias. The same will be said of gaming practices such as loot boxes and other mechanics in-game that encourage addiction much in the same way tobacco companies have been restricted due to the addictive nature of their merchandise.
@@gzmdesign it is their responsibility to not use microtransactions which forces abusive and negative behaviour to monetize on those which minds you can crack, while still hurting everyone else by trying to crack their minds to maximize the profit of the suffering of your "whales/dolphins"
(yes they gave us animal classifications; because we all know to abuse and mistreat humans we need to make yourself see them as nothing but "monkeys"... animals... yer we have seen this too many times before...).
your complete ignorance on the now hundreds of Very solid research articles out on the area; does Not absolve you from the damage your ignorance, and spreading of it, does to others...
as you said yourself "you don't know shit about gaming" so don't talk about areas which you don't know crap about, especially when there are TONS of scientific evidence and TONS of people who actually read and understood it and who are TELLING YOU what is what on the subject you KNOW you don't know shit about....
so wtf choose to be an ignorant loud idiot and thinking your opinion on a subject you know nothing about is as valid as the scientist who literally spends YEARS researching and documenting it, the effects, the methods used, and the reason of why it works and the damage it has and will do; research which btw builts straight on top of literally THOUSANDS!! of extremely well-documented research articles and projects on all the psychology used when utilizing microtransactions (it is built on all the addiction and gambling psychology,+other manipulative psychology, already existing; as that is what they abuse...)
but YOU! still, think that YOUR complete lack of knowledge should be considered instead of just "shutting the fuck up and listen to those who know and can prove it when you know you don't know shit about the subject!"...
seriously wtf is wrong with all you evil or stupid people. fucking up the world for all of us; because you can't admit that you don't have 10years of scientific knowledge within EVERY subject EVER discussed which has heavy scientific proof behind it...
fucking childish... so damn childish... and that would be fine if it did no damage, but this has literally KILLED people and you are helping make it worse, not to mention how disgusting an attitude you take towards the victims of this psychological abuse and manipulation, all because you can't admit you are an ignorant moron on the area and should listen to people who know far more, on the area and have done their research to know it, than you do.
I'm currently 17 minutes in, I really should have gotten some popcorn lol
i would if it wasn't so damn sad :(
why are we allowing these disgusting people to abuse and hurt so many just so they can scam, steal and rob literally billions...
it is insane
I could watch this all day. These people have literally no brains. Tbh they think people will believe this. They are obviously lying so HARD. It is crazy
@FantomOmega You would think that if they've got nothing to hide, it would be easy.
11 mins in... need a pizza
I hope you didnt get any. I almost choked on mine.
Woman from EA: "Bad guys find ways to do bad things, they just do".
Is it ironic?
Looks like she talks about herself in 4th person
wow she really thinks they are the good guys... WOW
@@GeekRaj She's a lawyer right? So it's just her job - there are lawyers who work to protect much worse companies or people but it's their job still, if they didn't do it the legal system would not work.
ea is the worst fuking company cnt get any worse they get kids to buy pakcs in thousands of their perents money
At 1:42:00 , when EA is asked if their card packs are random (gambling), it's good to hear the UK parliamentary BULLSHIT alarm working again, I thought it was broken due to over use..
Justin Y. Bullshit alarm
@Justin Y. lol it's when there's a disagreement in parliament, they need all the MP's. Very rare, but they needed to vote on some serious shit, so everyone in the building is called urgently to deal with it
@Justin Y. Lol
@Justin Y. When there is a motion being passed in parliament and the speaker cannot clearly tell if the aye's or no's have won the vote. The parliamentary lobby is cleared and the alarm bells go off to signify to MP's who are in the chamber, or in any nearby area that is hooked up that a vote is currently going on.
@Justin Y. A "surprise mechanic".
They are such snakes, it’s so blatantly obvious they are lying. I really hope something comes of this. TAKE GAMBLING WITH REAL MONEY OUT OF OUR GAMES
Danny Richie welcome to politics
Dont forget they specificly targets children and Young People because they are more vulnerable should be unforgiving
EA is a cunt
I hate lootboxes and its about time to bring them to an end.... cant wait for it.
Preach it. I would take a buggy game over a game based around loot boxes or micro transactions
So you hate them and therefore they should be illegal, is that it? The millions of people that are buying them have no right to do so because YOU hate them... correct? I just don't see it, I am very much opened to get my mind changed but for now? I still don't see why this is wrong... I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I wish I could convey the tone of voice through here, I genuinely don't see what is wrong with offering a product that you can chose to buy (any many in deed do) or you can choose not to buy...
@@gzmdesign it promotes pay 2 win. People who don't cash in like £200 over the original £60 for the game are at an automatic loss. Its disgusting how this was never regulated years ago.
A P so Epic is promoting pay to win? They don’t have enhancements... so it’s EA promoting pay to win? Cool, don’t play, in masses don’t play, vote with your wallet, it’s your choice, as I said in another comment, if loot boxes where free this would be a non-issue, it’s not the gambling nature of it that has people outraged, it’s the fact they have to pay, even though they know this going in... sorry, not their fault... you can chose not to play it...
@@gzmdesignsome people want to be better than others, so rather than skill and progression people buy themselves better things In game. The more you buy irl cash the more you progress. That's how it should not be. It should be a fair level playing field for everyone.
EA and Epic are on thier last legs, I cant believe these pathetic excuses they made up
Nioh Arcadia I just hope the day will come that Epic and EA shutdown.
EA feeds off the vulnerability of others and exploits them just to advance in game. Epic on the other hand is a free to play game, the skins (characters), emotes etc do not give a competitive advantage and are optional for anyone who wants them. They still provide tons of free V Bucks (in game currency) so if someone’s child essentially spends too much on purpose then it’s their own choice not an exploitation of children. Now if it’s by accident that’s a whole different scenario.
The kid that spent £1600 in one day on his Uncles card is solely the Uncles fault, left his bank details to a kid and went on holiday when the account is registered under his name. You can only spend near enough £150-200 in an item shop daily, so if the kid managed to approve of payments without any authorisation or confirmation from the guys bank then Idk. There’s also a user agreement or “contract” in the beginning where you have to confirm your age.
Everything the guy representing Epic said was true, the EA reps were talking nonsense though.
YXNG 23 the only way earning V bucks is by buying another Game Mode(Save the world)
@@yourboyjosh1867 look fortnite is the only game I know of that gives premium currency for free, other games you need to buy it directly
Othmane AD GTA online,Watch dogs 1,2,Dragon Ball xenovers 2, there are more but I can’t remember all of them.
Loot boxes are not loot boxes but are surprised mechanics, had me rolling. Not sure if they are trying to fool us or themselves.
If EA really wanted to surprise us they could use mechanics that aren’t designed to rip us off
they even call them Loot Boxes within the game's U.I.
They're trying to implement "Surprise damage control" so as to save their precious money making scam.
If you watch her facial expressions when she made that statement, you can see she's struggling to say it with a straight face. She knows it's BS. But she drew the short straw, and got put in the hot seat.
It's still hilarious watching her squirm, while trying to completely sidestep the question.
I'd love these guys to provide evidence where we consumers have said loot boxes are 'fun' and 'quite enjoyable'.
I mean if people didnt like them they wouldn't be bought and therefore not exist anymore, their mere existence is proof that people are willing to pay, im not defending them but the consumer itself holds largely the blame of the situation they put them selves in
@@kianst1834 Normally this makes sense and I would agree, however the figures are that it is a small percentage of the population i.e. whales (who's OCD is exploited) that makes up for more than 70% of the microtransation and loot box revenue in the F2P model.
This also be a good argument, that let the small percentage pay for the games while the majority of the market gets the games "free", but AA-AAA are being designed from the ground up for IAP purchases and by their very nature are addictive and targets not only whales but also kids (kid's parent's credit cards)
oh....and also angers the core customers/consumers which are gamers.
@Cero Z So you know this for a fact? You've met everyone that buys loot boxes and they have all been diagnosed with some level of "ADDICTION stupid" correct?
In your view people cannot have the right to buy these loot boxes because you don't think the are "moral" correct? That is extremely presumptuous and somewhat selfish.
To your second point, if they are kids and not "grown ass men idiot", who's fault is it that they've got access to a credit card then? EA? Did they sneak Mum's card to this child?
People need to start taking responsibility for their actions, and when I say "people" I mean parents... all this can very easily be avoided, don't give you child a credit card, don't allow them to play more than 1 hour a day... there... I fixed it. If your kid can play 30 hours straight and pee their pants that's not Epic's fault.
@@gzmdesign sure parents should parent more but loot box practices still need to go. It's a dumb money grub that is leaking into almost every new game being released to squeeze every ounce of money out of a product that in alot of cases only has a shelf life of 2 years. DLC and game passes are already a poor excuse to make you spend more money but at least they are a complete aspect of the game where you know exactly what you're getting. Loot boxes are a plague on gaming
@@jiybro Ok, I respect your opinion fully, I really do, even if I don't share it. My point is that if they are "the doom of humanity" how is it that they are selling by the millions? And if they are selling by the millions, is everyone that's buying them being mislead to believe that they contain something they don't? or are they all choosing to spend their money to see if they get lucky? I do agree that if lawful consensus is achieved in which they are to be considered "gambling" then they should not be allowed on anything that's not 18+, but I still believe that adults should be able to choose to buy anything they want with their own money, some people tell me I'm silly because I spend all my money on cars, superbikes and jumping out of air planes, still doesn't make it illegal you see? That's my point... happy to continue the discussion in a civil manner.
I love the interviewer, he seems to know what questions to ask but also how a company would act, and for example categorize their player base. To me Epic and EA seemed incredibly unprepaired. Ofcourse they will deny knowledge of many things as not to admit malicious intend.
To me it looks like EA and EPIC werent expecting this kind of a questioning. They probably thought "its just some politicians that have no clue about gaming, we will be fine". And they got completely shreded, props to the parlament guys for taking this shit seriously.
Zodayn His name is Damian Collins he is good at asking questions like the ones he asked.
Let's be fair, EA is unprepared. For the level to which Epic Shame Games is unprepared, you would have to invent a new word.
"Bad guys find ways to do bad things" - EA's representatives
Says the person who's doing the exact same thing by bullshitting
You´d know about that you snide EA b**ch
ea stelas kids money and gives them with notting
@@Drakonus_ that's the point.
@@emilengen7825 Yep.
*I AM TIRED OF MICROTRANSACTION IN THE GAMES* *BAN THEM*
Micro-transactions done well can be fine, but the issue is that very few companies ever do them right. $1.99 for a cool skin that doesn't effect gameplay can be fine, but $10 for a SAVE SLOT needs to end ASAP.
They should not be in 60 dollar games. I give Titanfall 2 a credits because that's the only game that did it right.
Darth Nihilus what about F2P games... they can’t have micro transactions?
It wouldn’t be a problem if companies didn’t abuse it. FIFA and Madden definitely take advantage of it and it is predatory. But if someone made a free game and offer no pay to win micro transactions, what’s wrong with that? Even if they charged for the game and had some micro transaction for cosmetics.
Banana Zach No fuck off. Back in the day we could get them in game with "in game money" so no it is NOT FINE!
Yes no more microtransaction, bring back the 60$ PAY TO PLAY back.
Everyone in the room missing 1 elephant, Activision-Blizzard.
When you do a school project and you choose the awkward kid to be the group speaker.
Thanks for video. Been trying to find it so can watch the whole discussion and not just commentary about it.
they are doing the Micheal Scott thing. "Sometimes I'll start a sentence, and I don't even know where it's going. I just hope I find it along the way. Like an improv conversation. An improversation."
Best comedy of 2019. 10/10 would recommend.
Fortnite early access wasn't free, this guy is so scared he's lying.
Players don't just love Fifa they have no choice you guys have the whole football market essentially monopolized
It's simple - EA must burn to the ground.
We can only hope.
No one has every said "I enjoy loot boxes" so where are they getting this nonsense from?
Maybe because they keep selling them like crazy? Millions are buying them, and they've got the right as consumers to do so... I see no other reason for someone to voluntarily pay money for a product that they don't need to survive (like medicine, food, etc)...
Lies of course
Sadly, "unboxing" videos are all over RUclips. There is serious psychological manipulation involved in these things. The flash of colors and light when they're opened, a musical fanfare, etc.: They are all ways to get people to repeat the actions that produced these fun responses. It's pretty much the same with slot machines. So yes, people like gambling. It's exploitation of that fun experience that is truly diabolical. It's just a sad sign of the times that it made its way into video games.
Of course people enjoy lootboxes. The existence of many many casinos proves this.
GzmPix this isn’t because we enjoy them tho. For many games purchasing these loot boxes are a necessity in order to compete with other players
We need some kind of purge to flush out the shareholders that flood the ownership of game companies with these goons
A Hyena the only way that can happen is government intervention.
@@edmundblackadder2741 which seems to be the way this is all going towards
Yeah but then it would just fill up again as if it formed a vacuum and the snakes would fill it back up.
I would just like to mention the developers of Warframe, Digital Extremes.
They had put in a mechanic like a lootbox where you could buy stuff for your in game pet, cosmetics, then they saw a guy who spent insane amounts of money on that and the devs decided to remove that mechanic completly because they saw what it did to poeple who cant control themselves.
Let me remind you, they are still in business, their game has not been destroyed, people still buy other cosmetic stuff that they sell in that game because it's a good game. And you know what you are paying for, you are not paying for some RNG box, also, you don't even have to pay for anything in that game, you can trade with other people for their real money currency, sure you'll grind more to get the stuff you need to sell, but it's a possibility which i havent really seen in any other game. They also give out 75% discount on their real money currency as a reward for loging in.
Props to Digital Extremes, the complete opposite to these greedy corporate scumbags
The guy from epic at 1:22:00 doesn't recognize that Fortnite has lootboxes and claims it only has upfront purchases. The original gamemode of Fortnite, which is still part of the game, offers loot boxes.
Szhusma Lets be real no one even plays the original fortnite. Fortnite is generally recognized as a battle Royale game. The game before it was a fail.
True, but Fortnite's loot boxes tells you exactly what you're gonna get.
That guys wet dream is prob Micros and LB
Don’t look so guilty now EA & Epicgames
watch their body language for the truth
You don't need to watch their body language. A blind person could hear the long winded, muttered, answers they tip toe around.
The Board destroys each of them with simple questions.
What truth?
1:16:36 "I have no qualms that they are implemented in an *unethical* way" little froydian slip there
I love the interviewer on how he can see through there bs, he has done his homework.
Love the questioning style displayed, thorough and digging. I hope something substantial comes from this and the UK seriously consider regulating this. I work for a bank and i see crazy spending on all this garbage, everyday! Games need to get back to what they used to be, early X360 style
all jokes aside, the questions coming from the UK Parliament members are so sharp and direct I wouldn't want to be on the answering end of it myself LOL props to the members, questions that we the players have that never been answered by them
Your honor, i think your Re-characterizing my language, i didn't ROB the bank it was a "surprise withdrawal".
Gustavo Lavandier That is soo fucking sick 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
so you don't think its necessary to abide by the law 'do not steal'. Ok i am suprised by your approach to the concept of robbery.
I'm dead😆
I prefer the term emergency withdrawal without any identity confirmation
Extremely interesting hearing. The woman who was second to question them seemed to be softballing them until she asked what their top 100 spenders on the gamehave spent. You know they do not want to answer that, because the answer is in the 10s of thousands of dollars. Wish she had of pushed that line of questioning further.
On fifa I've spent 10k in the last 2 years over 2 games, I'm in the bottom spectrum of it the higher points are 100s of thousands of ££££ e.g Castro YTber will spend 10k per promo easily the game has had easily 10 promos this year easily
@@LALLY97X That's insane man
Its satisfying watching the games companies struggle and squirm! Really informative hearing.
Sad part is this is just a hearing but they a guilty as all hell
and this is AFTER they have gotten heavy tutoring in what to not say and how to say what...
imagine if they where actually talking in any honest capacity -.-
21:11 to 21:40 is fucking gold! 😂😂
Reply with your favorite part
1:14:40 is pretty hard to beat lol....
1:16:30 "I have no qualms that they are implemented in an unethical way"
Something we can all agree on.
Freudian slip
I just love how the guy manipulated her to say so
@Raw Piece it will have been noted.
"The industry". YOU AND EA DO NOT REPRESENT THE INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE. STOP LUMPING GOOD GAME DEVS WITH YOU
If you're talking about triple A developers, than most of them practice in a shitty business practices (or at least these recent years such as bethesda and their mobile games)
Definitely sending a Christmas card to the man asking the questions. He is a legend!! 😃
Anybody here from Angry Joe?
yep
Ye
Videos up now
This video is amazing, 6 minutes in and it already feels like a piece of history!
this is a train wreck of the most beautiful kind
"[Monitization] is a key feature of the game!" - EA Executive.
Can we all just agree at this point that they need to change their name from "Electronic Arts" to "Exploitative A-holes"?
Hate waggon
I didn't break that guy's nose, I gave him surprise rhinoplasty.
Did she seriously just say that you can't create a PSN account if you are under 18. That is a straight up lie and I hope she gets caught out on it.
1:16:35 She goes back to calling them "LOOT BOXES!"
What a slimy fox she is.
I can only imagine Chef Ramsay talking to them
Ha, Hell's trial, EA and Epic would literally shit themselves and walk away as a weeping, broken piece of drenched corporate suits. LOL
2:38:04 - 2:38:18 BOOOOM!!!!
I still laugh at this years later.
This is what you get when you put together your legal team from untradable packs
Why cant these slimy snakes answer yes or no??
They always go off on a ramble of their own making using big words and confusing phrases!
Does ea offer refunds on players over spending?
He shuda said no, but off he goes rambling on about some bullshit!
I hope ea gets crucified over these loot boxes, and have to refund any one whose paid for one!
Serves them right!
Court: How much money do you make
EA: You weren't supposed to ask that
Because it’s irrelevant. 100% not appropriate to ask
UK Parliament: yes, and you call them steamed hams, despite the fact that they are obviously grilled
EA and Epic representatives:
"Were you coached?"
EA: LOL *-YES.-*
They kept saying that the playstation store and the xbox equivalent are the gatekeepers when it comes to monitoring player age when it comes to setting up accounts in an attempt to shift responsibility... BUT NO MENTION OF PC ACCOUNTS because that's THEIR responsibility
And no mention of mobile accounts either, I'm wondering who has the responsibility on Fortnite mobile.
Bruh in-game stats tell me how many days, minutes and seconds I've been playing these games, how tf do they not know how long an average player plays a day.
Deviant They do, but don’t want to confirm it
Man I haven't seen an ass whoopin this crazy since Glover Teixeira vs. Fabio Maldonado
WHUUUUUU thanks for upload, owe ya a beer man!
EA deserves to be grilled but the Parliament sure did ask a lot of dumb questions to Epic regarding common video game practices. It shows they aren’t familiar with video game culture and practices that developers do.
Those questions are aimed to make those representatives say something incrimidating. They know that those companies use addiction as driving force, but they need proof in form of admittance from them or a study which showes the obvious.
Are you using psychologists specialised in behavioural studies? (of course they do, the questionair knows it as well, we just need proof). The real questions is: Are you aware the your game is addicting?
Are you collecting data on your players spending/playtime? (uhm... duh, how the hell would you plan your marketing without that data) = Pretty much the same question again.
Can you check the age of your players? = Are you allowing minors to access gambling?
Their questions were well formed and aimed specifically to get answers which could be used as confessions.
It's also a common tactic to throw some soft balls to give them quick and easy questions to answer to hopefully lower their guard on a more in depth question.
These guys have basically done more worse than good, they are making it sound really sinister and creepy with their side stepping and avoiding answers.
Keep going at it UK! One greedy company down at a time!
Man the ones asking the questions here are freaking awesome and never back down from asking the hard stuff. Bravo
"Have been coached on how to answer us before coming here?"
"No but... no but actually yes."
timestamp?
AJosh
1:23
THIS WHOLE meeting was about "do you care about the health and well being of your players?" they asked them that millions of times in different ways... only thing they had to say was: "yes, we do care, we know there is a problem and we want to implement and help to create a system to help out our player base"
But INSTEAD they went on and on and on and on... about how they are not responsible about what people do with their free time and is parents fault. ugh...
In Belgium they see lootboxes as abusing people (I live in Belgium) they even gonna delete animal crossing and fire emblem mobile.
Based
@Beatrice Asarte Less based
I’m I the only person who doesn’t like the term micro transactions. It isn’t micro if it cost more than the game.
BRING IN THE LIE DETECTORS!!!!! ITS OBVIOUSLY THEY ARE SUSPICIOUS. THE JUDGES NEED TO HEAR THE CONSUMER SIDE!!!!!
Any gamer added into this panel WOULD EAT THESE GUYS ALIVE.
I’ve already spoke with someone from this committee board and arranging a meeting to take this further. Can’t believe the “Suprise mechanics” phase even left her mouth.
Pretty sure if a lie detector was brought in, the the thing would immediately blow up due to an overwhelming amount over overloading data.
You don’t need lie detectors you can hear in their voice and see in their body language they are lying
What lie detectors? Just look at her face, she can't look at the dude in the eye for 5 straight seconds
Surprise toys don't give you a distinct advantage over other toy buyers, making an already paid-for experience a pay-to-win experience on top of it. "Surprise Mechanics" do. THAT is the difference, EA.
Also with surprise toys no matter what you are getting the value you paid for its just about the variety in ea ultimate teams you can easily spend alot of money and not get the value you paid for in return especially since you cannot buy coins directly it’s literally a gamble every time on whether you get anything valuable at all out of packs
What a waste of time, it’s clear Epic Games or EA aren’t going to implement any of the changes or suggestions given in this hearing because it will affect their income. I genuinely feel governing bodies need take actual action on things like loot boxes and the fact that she called it “surprise mechanics” sums up their stance on it, they know its gambling, but they will continue to act unethically as long as they can get away with it because it’s in the best interest of the shareholders and their main source of income. And from my personal experience with FUT Ive definitely heard and seen more cases of players being unhappy with what they’ve received in context with what they’ve financially invested than being happy.
Well, they did highly suggest it will happen. Just the suggestion made the woman sweet profoundly
"Has a doctor said that playing a game for ten hours is unhealthy?"
Yes actually, they have.
Fuck, as a gamer I'll say it. Playing a game for ten hours is unhealthy.
I love seeing her squirm during the gambling questions
The fact they can't look any of them in the eye when asked a direct questions say's enough
Wheres the whole gang? Valve, Bethesta, Blizzard,Activision and Bungie.
I think we can all agree that EA is the biggest perpetrator.
Well if you have been following bungie and destiny news. They are not part of the Activision anymore and they just announced the changes about loot boxes and microtransactions
I dont think we should include valve. Their paid items dont affect game mechanics(ie csgo skins)
I think Activision is arguably worse than EA, for some reason they don't get the same attention.
@@BenGally00 i can agree with that, EA is a company filled with greedy little corporate workers and all but Activision is 10x that imo, and no one talks about it
1:56
Epic Shames guy: "We were really rather surprised by the statements that were made"
Me: So would you say it was a.... SURPRISE MECHANIC? XD
"The proceeding will start shortly"
Enough time to make some popcorn.
Was no-one briefed on these definitions before the start of the discussion?
Gambling: to play games of chance for money (betting)
Betting: the action of gambling money on the outcome of an unpredictable event
The bad guys phrase was definitely a phase of projection.
Guys this is just a hearing. Not court case yet. Hope you didnt think these guys are their lawyers
so many legendary moments
let me tell you as an artist and a video game dev my self even BEFORE i was a dev when i was mainly academically studying art and media , we did study the psychological impacts of said art and media on people , on individuals , and in this participial industry its called the physicy of the target demographics , how they will react what catches their interests what activities they enjoy how it works what sorta feed back they will give to it and how to use it
let me make an example for you
lets say its a video game , and its an MMO , and its based on EXP for levels and the same EXP can be used to charge items to match your levels
say i want the players to play longer , easy , i can make the EXP they gain increase the more people there are in your party if i want it to be communal , i can make it also do the same thing the longer the person is engaged in combat and it starts to decrease once the person is out of combat so you gain X3 times with 3 more people and you gain X1 extra times more based on how many hours you stay engaged in the game with the max of x15
that way people WILL PLAY LONGER AND IN GROUPS more often
if i want people to have healthy gaming time i can make it decrease their EXP gain the longer they play by using a stamina system , using the same logic but backwards
this is how we control this , its no secret as they claim , we care for people , we do art , those people you see sitting there are business men they dont care for anything other then money
What I really enjoyed most about this is how blissfully ignorant EA and Epic's suits were, and more so how the British wiped the floor with their insufferable asses while being ever so polite. Cheerio.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being pessimistic, but we don't sound like that.
@@prophecybydefault4708 you don't sound polite?
So interesting watching EA and Epic people squirm and try and figure out how to answer questions they obviously do not want to answer in ways they think will not hang them
1:19:07 weren’t they banning players for trying to change their location to Netherlands or Belgium to avoid EAs loot boxes? They are absolutely fully aware that players are doing this!
The alarm that went off at 1.42.33 while the EA rep was talking about chance, is that the bullshit detector? Lol
Seeing the representatives of the big publishers reminded me of my high school days when I wouldn't study or pay attention to what was said the day before.
Just ban whole Lootbox and Microtransactions if you don't EA and others just balance in the middle of what is good or bad and make sure that they are just a little bit on the right side on it.
I warned my family about loot boxes and my nephew blew 500 bucks on them the next month. My sister had to fight to get that money back. Educating people and warning them is not enough. This requires legislation.
'Bad people find ways to do bad things' - EA
The reason why you're having to explain this situation is because it's clearly a scam and gambling. Why aren't other companies there like indie developers etc? Because they don't add this shit to their games. EA and Epic love to put this in their games have been called out.