As an original Atari ST owner from back in the day, you have done a splendid job! I remember etching boards as a hobbyist many years ago. Your board looks great! Thank you for such an enjoyable video.
I like this video very much. Thank you for sharing your work and experiences. I don't think this is a failure...you have a lot of great stuff in this project!
I have 512ST (with 1MB) and 1040STe which was sold to me as defective, but turned out to be completely functional, albeit a little bit dirty and missing one keycap. Thanks for this video, I thought of retrobriting those, but now you've dissuaded me from that idea. I'll just retrobrite the keycaps, though, because they're supposed to be white so not much damage can be done to it. Great video, I love the detailed explanation about ROMs.
In this instance, it is ok to cut a rectangular opening in the case for an Amiga / Atari ST compatible PC disk drive. As long as it is done right, and looks good, it will not ruin the appearance of the Atari ST computer. Atari should have done it this way to begin with. I have always hated these none standard disk drive openings in vintage computers. It is one of the many reasons why I hate the poorly designed Amiga 3000 computer. Also, you could mount the Atari ST motherboard into a nice PC tower case. Then you can install Amiga / Atari ST compatible PC disk drives into that tower case. You could also install a Supra Atari Hard Disk into that tower cases. Spray paint the PC tower case Atari ST grey. Mask off and spray paint Atari ST blue stripes, like what's on the Atari ST boxes. Change all of the LEDs to blue LEDs. Then, you will have built yourself an Atari ST Tower of Power. Oh, you can find PC tower cases in grey, with grey plastic fronts. Then all you would have to do is mask off and spray paint the blue stripes. 😃
urgh... made this comment before I watched the last quarter, after all that work I feel so bad for you for the horror show at the end, get a PO Box set up I am sure someone will donate a new case :)
You can mod a lot of PC floppy drives to work with STs or Amigas, just google for amiga pc fdd mod or something like that. Although there are no jumpers anymore, you can just cut a trace or resolder a bridge to change it from 1 to 0, furthermore you should be able to wire up the disk change signal too, just follow that guide. FB354s/FB357s are quite common in Amigas and Roland MIDI modules, but honestly I havent't seen one with similar eject button. Try cleaning up and lubeing the rails, maybe the head cannot reach a sector it's looking for - make esure it can traverse freely from end to end and there are no gunk residues. You could also use some kind of disk verify software, like diskcopy on Amiga, so that you can see what's wrong with your drive. Love your channel BTW.
I learned somewhere that there is a VERY tiny capacitor on the underside of the drive that when it goes bad causes the motor speed to become unreliable. You will need to replace this and you can then use your original drive in your ST! :) Hope that helps your problem.
Excellent job you did there, especially with the ROM upgrade! Don't worry about the RetroBrite disaster, find someone that knows how to spray plastics, and get them to simply paint it the original shade of grey. Do not try to peel off the sticker as you'll never get it to lay flat again :-)
I had something similar happen to my Atari. There are two options you can try. On my Atari, the case cover would look normal when it was wet. So if yours does the same thing, then go ahead and give my method a try. I used a magic eraser and went over the cloudy looking areas to level out the discoloration. that worked very well. I tried in one spot some matte clear coat . and that seems to level out the appearance as well. I cleaned off that spot and used the magic eraser on the entire case. I prefer this method, as I can still make changes to the appearance, which would be impossible with clear coat applied. Good luck
Definitely no dye, it's a terrible idea.In that case I'd just leave it the way it is. See David Murrays video on how he tried different methods including dye. ruclips.net/video/qZYbchvSUDY/видео.html
Right. And as far as I remember, the ST was supposed to behave like a Mac, but Apple got in the way with patents ... So, no floppy change auto detect, no auto floppy eject ...
Try RetroManCave. He is a youtuber who does refurbishments and knows a lot about retro-brighting. He might be able to suggest how to fix the unit. BTW I love what you all are doing to refurbish these old computers. I am an 80's nerd and these machines are quite nostalgic for me. Seeing them as they looked when new just takes me back!Oh on the floppy drive if you can determine whether it's a mechanical or electronic issue you may be able to repair it. Especially if the issue actually is with the controller. There are a lot of boards that are interchangeable and that would allow you to put the original drive back in place.
Hopefully by now you have got the case sorted out, but if not consider painting it. Back in 1989 at a show in London I remember seeing Jeff Minter's ST he/d painted matt black with white stars, comets and planets and a huge rainbow. It sounds garish, but it had been airbrushed and was quite subtle. Use a plastic primer so the paint doesn't just fall off (bumper primer from a car parts shop works). I tried it on my old 800xl which technically worked but my complete lack of artistic talent made it a bit of a disaster. I should have asked one of my more arty friends to do it for me!! I ended up a couple of years later swapping the case from an unworking xl and disposing the evidence!!
Not yet, but I've not been working on this machine since I refurbished it (except for playing games, but that hardly counts as work). I've got some advice to try Vinyl dye. I'm going to do that in northern hemisphere spring or early summer. I'll make sure to get a video of the attempt. I thought about replacing the case, but it's not easy to find an *actually* non-working 1040STf and I wouldn't want to take the case of a repairable machine.
Oh I mostly did the PCB thing because it meant I could experiment with PCB etching some more. And as much as I like hacking things together, I didn't want to hack that much and just bend pins :-p
You didn't fail dude, kudos to you for taking on this task, I had 2 ST machines, 520STFM and 520STE, loved them both, loved this video, keep doing more, how about an old BBC micro ???
29:50, a tip for getting solder out of those holes easier, without a pump. Put it over the edge of a table and heat it up, and you can just flex the board a bit with your finger and let it snap back. The molten solder will fall right out of there.
I got an actual desoldering station in the meantime. That works a million times better :) I don't like flexing boards, you never know what subtle damage you produce.
TOS ROMs are available on eBay nearly all the time. I bought a set for my own Atari-ST which originally came with the floppy-boot ROMs, and then Atari sent me TOS 1.0. Now I have TOS 1.4.
Regarding the plastic. I have found good use with ariel washing machine soap. Standard non-color type in powder form. Then mixed it with warm water untill it feels greasy like cooking oil. Then it takes 30 minutes of soaking and not 2 hours. I have done it with a keytronic keyboard from 1996. Works well with dirt.
flash /me back I think it works on grime and fatt from fingers, because the soap has those ensymes. Sadly it is not going to take away yellow on plastic. That would be awesomme. Hydrogen perioxid is kind of scary if it gets on fingers. Anyway... Things do get clean this way.
That was pretty informative. Good job! And don't worry about the soldering, since, you know, es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen. For the retrobrighting(sp?): thanks for including this "failure" in the video. Not everything works perfectly all the time and yes, it will be a good reminder to be more careful in future. Anyway: this was fun watching, and I couldn't do this myself if I were tasked with it. Daumen hoch!
Thanks for the encouragement :-) It can be frustrating sometimes when your lacking soldering skills make things take hours instead of the few minutes you had planned. But at least I can edit the worst soldering fails to look like I almost knew what I am doing :-p
That was a marathon job of upgrading and refurbishing you did. Shame that the case didn't take to retro-brighting, but it's all experience learned. I'd be tempted to get a broken ST and transplant the case (and floppy), or respray the case in a shade of grey matched to the original. I'm quite envious of you ability to solder directly to the mainboard and make your own circuits and daughterboards, though - that's beyond my ability. Looking forward to watching your multipart Amiga 500 video. My first 16bit computer was an Amiga 500+. I still have it, along with an A600HD, a couple of A1200's and a CD32. Before the Amiga, I was using my ZX Spectrum +2A, and before that, an Acorn BBC Model B. Still have both of them, but the BBC B is dead at the moment. I have to investigate resurrecting that one. There is a particular East German computer that has long fascinated me - the Robotron Z1013. I read about it via an article from Retro Thing a few years ago, but you almost never see anything about it in English (certainly not on You Tube, anyway). It was built using the parts Robotron rejected for their industrial and government computers. While we were playing on our Commodore 64s and ZX Spectrums and the like, that's what the few people in East Germany who could afford a computer were using - so long as they could build or scrounge up a PSU, tape deck, better keyboard, build a case, etc, etc. Do you have an thoughts about covering it? I think it would be really interesting to the wider Retro Computer/Video Game community who didn't grow up on that side of the Iron Curtain. Anyway - excellent video. Looking forward to more great content from you at some point :)
Thanks for all the praise! In fact, my first computer was a 286 (which I got some time in the mid-90s, so you could say I was born a retro nerd :D). I thought about getting a broken STf, but there not many available, really. And when I'd find one, I'd probably try getting it to work instead of stealing the case. Please don't see my soldering as a tutorial or anything, I'm really bad at it. There are other people here on RUclips who are a lot better at that and actually know what they are doing. My electronics tinkering is more trial and error than anything else. Of course you don't see me failing for two weeks, I only show the final result and maybe a few of the more interesting fails inbetween :) I'm familiar with Robotron, but I've never seen one. I grew up in Western Germany, and though I had relatives in the East, none of them was into computers at all (and I was 4 when the wall fell...). They're also relatively hard to get, even here. If I ever come across one for a decent price, I'll grab it! All the parts of my Amiga video series are more or less finished, I'll release one every week. Hope you like them as well!
I'll be sure to watch them. I remember the wall falling vividly. It was just before my 13th birthday - The Berlin wall came down, the USSR collapsed, Romania ousted their dictator - it was a crazy time, seeing all this stuff I'd grown up with seeing in James Bond and other Hollywood movies as some sort of unstoppable evil empire, and then seemingly overnight, it was gone. Still, the period is sort of fascinating (from an outsider's perspective) at how people coped, and what technology was available - like in Russia, there were loads of clones of the Sinclair Spectrum, because it was so simple, relatively speaking. In fact, where I live, there are rich fishing grounds. We used to get Russian Fish Factory ships calling every summer - they would harvest the fish, process them on board. The crew would be relatively well paid, so they'd come ashore, buying up as many Levi and Wrangler jeans as possible, jars of Nescafe coffee, and Sinclair Spectrums, or cheap colour TVs to take back to Russia. We even got offered money for our car - a Russian Lada. Crazy times.
I got a hint recently about trying vinyl dye on it to restore the color. I'm going to give it a try soon. Maybe it'll fix that problem (or make it ridiculously worse).
Modifying the side of the ST's casing was an actual mod we used to do back in the 90s. And it just occurred to me that maybe the drive in your ST was single sided (it is an STF with TOS 1.0), and your test disk was double sided.
The drive had problems reading some of the disks I got with the machine, which according to the previous owner worked fine back in the day. I just checked, it does have two read heads.
Might be more work, but have you considered just 3D printing a disk drive adapter and faceplate? You could probably even mount an opto-interrupter diode (or whatever it's called) to detect when the disk is inserted...
iKarith that was it! the Lazer 128! I remember I had to get a boot disk from my computer teacher after class to use it. unfortunately, beyond the boot disk I never got any software for it.
thank you for making this video, especially for showing the pitfalls, errors, workarounds etc... showing the problems you came across and overcame is much more informative than just showing an edited "successful" version, so thank you... i also didn't think you failed in any way, your ST is not only much improved from when you started, but it also ended up with a unique character... :) i know this video is a year old, as i write this,so you may have already gone down this route... but have you considered replacing the floppy with a gotek?
I thought about it, yeah. I have a spar Gotek drive lying around. I might still do it. Though I think I'll also give the original drive another chance. If I use the Gotek, I'll probably attach it externally.
Sehr cooles Video, ich habe es sehr genossen! Ich bin selber mit einem Atari 1040STFM gross geworden und da wäre dieser TOS-Umbau extrem interessant. Vorallem, wenn man in der Lage wäre ein noch höheres TOS als 1.04 einzusetzen (1.06 oder das korrigierte 1.62) welche ja erst in den STE Varianten zum Einsatz gekommen sind.
Soweit ich weiß benötigt TOS ab 1.06 Teile der neuen STe Hardware. Wird also leider niemals möglich sein, aber zum Glück ist ein STe gar nicht so viel teurer als ein STf. Zumindest deutlich erschwinglicher als ein Falcon :)
Ja schon krass, was man "immer" noch oder aber "wieder" für einen Falcon bezahlen muss... Trotzdem war es damals immer DER grosse Traum, irgendwann mal einen Falcon zu besitzen :). Die Demo-Szene hatte sich aber ja extrem auf die STF Serie eingeschossen, sodaß der Wechsel nie statt gefunden hat. Dort bin ich dann auch irgendwie hängen geblieben, obwohl ich schon viel mehr mit dem Atari gearbeitet als gespielt habe.
Hi. I'm after one of those vga cables for the atari st that you showed on this video.... Can they be bought from a shop online? (I haven't been able to find any). And also, what model ASUS monitor are you using for the atari st in this video? Many thanks. 😊
I've heard from people who had more luck with retrobrighting STs. But I wouldn't do it again. Same goes for XEs. These will never get close to peroxide anymore if I can do something about it ;-)
ahh, the retina display quality of SM124... too bad it had this black frame around the active screen. It was capable of 1100 lines horizontal, but Atari only displayed 640 pixels...
Thanks for advising not to retrobrighting the case)) In fact it is also very hard to find that chemical stuff peroxide here in NZ! I would simply use another case which less yellow, but some yellow I think is fine as it shows that it is a retro stuff ) Anyway, I was amazed how you upgraded the TOS! Have you experienced any improvements after all?
I have quite some expirience with modding ST computers. The reason the disc change detect is not working is, Atari used the write protect wire for that. You need mod the floppy drive a bit to make it work perfectly. A quick workaroud is, after changing the disc you hit ESC on the disc window, that forces a refresh. I have recorded me modding a drive in realtime, in pretty horrible quality. ruclips.net/video/QAaAl2jma7Q/видео.html In this mod, i also connect the HD detect signal so i can use 1.44 MB floppies. But you need a mod for the floppy controller for that to work. They are available sometimes on ebay, or you can ask in the german atari forum, someone might have a spare one. I think the HD floppy mod is one of the most useful. You can also add an IDE adapter and then use a CF card as harddisk, but that requires a bit more work.
PS: i just realized that you have the version where the CPU sits in the front under the keyboard, that makes it almost impossible to fit an IDE adapter.
Ok, for your floppy problem, try downloading the fmc.arc program from this page to reset the media change. www.atari.org/hosted/quickfaq/stfaq_3.htm#31 Also, swap pins 2 and 34 on drive cable like people do for Amiga Drives. Pin 2 is Density Select, and 34 is Disk Change/Ready. The idea is that when you insert a 720k disk, it will toggle the density select sensor, but since it is crossed to the Disk Change Signal, it will signal to the Atari that you have changed the disk. Some floppies have a jumper for this, others you need to coss the wires on the cable. Check some of the videos about modifying a PC drive for an Amiga for examples.
VWestlife Yeah, that's the first (and only) thing I tried. It was relatively hard to reach the heads because of the form of the case of the drive. I may try again after removing more parts of the drive. That may make a nice follow-up if it actually helps. I'm a bit afraid of removing those tiny screws and springs.
@@flashmeback Side Select line may be busted (somehow). Otherwise you would get some kind of file error instead of bombs (that are a hint of corrupted binary). Also, you could upgrade this board with a blitter chip from a Mega ST.
Welcome to the world of the Atari ST! You've really jumped in with both feet! What model of ASUS LCD do you have that is compatible with ~15KHz? Does it do a true 50Hz or just upconvert to 60Hz?
Thanks! It's not a VE258Q, just VE258? That model is apparently much more rare. 50Hz is likely pretty common, but getting 240p 50Hz support is less common. LCD monitors often assume it's 480i and de-interlace it into 480p 25Hz. Easiest test would be to play a 50Hz scrolling game and see if it updates properly. Only one for a non-STE I know of that does 1VBL scrolling (8-way, at that!) is Enchanted Land. You might need to compare to a CRT in order to know for sure it's at 50Hz.
@@flashmeback I thought it was a bit of interesting Atari trivia. The same applied to the TT series (Thirty-Two Thirty-Two) that followed closer to the end of the line for Atari as a company.
You could try DYING it instead of painting... its used on classic cars.. you have different colors maybe you can mix up a greyish one... have a look at www.vinyldye.co.uk/ ...
Ich höre einen leichten German Acczent ;o)... warum nicht gleich auf deutsch - gibt leider, viel zu wenig solcher guter Videos auf deutsch! Trotzdem: gute Arbeit - vielen Dank!
What retrobright process did you use? I'm curious because I've seen these types of results from spreading liquid on the item, covering and putting in the sun but submerging in liquid seems to be a more even process.
Yeah, I used the DIY cream method. Peroxide + Xanthan + Glycerine + Sunlight. I didn't know about the submerging method back then. Would totally try that next time, it seems much safer, even if it's a bit more expensive.
I enjoyed the video very much, but the ending, kind of made me want to hang myself. Too much excitement I guess. Thank you and keep up the good work :)
Konnte der ST den auch direkt auf Basic booten? Ich hatte einst einen Atari XE, der auf die 8 Bit Atari-Computer basierte aber ähnlich wie der ST aussah. Ich wünschte mir, dass ich irgendwann mal einen XE (und einen C-64, wie wir ihn in meiner alten Grundschule in Hamburg hatten) wieder finden kann. Hier in Mittelamerika sind die Optionen aber etwas eingeschränkt. Übrigens kann ich mich nicht erinnern, dass mein alter Atari XE je einen Aufkleber der Deutschen Bundespost hatte (wie der bei 4:14, mit dem Posthorn und der Nummer 7 A302, was immer das bedeuten soll).
Der ST hat kein BASIC eingebaut. Das war ziemlich selten in der 16 bit Ära. Mein IBM PS/2 Model 30 ist die einzige 16Bit-Maschine mit BASIC ROM, die ich kenne.
I haven't tried that, but it looks like it should be easy to do. ATX (which the picoPSU is) provides all the required voltages, +5V, +12V and -12V. The hardest part will be tapping the -12V line (check this pinout: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#/media/File:ATX_20-PIN.png ), it doesn't seem like there's a dedicated solder point for that. Another somewhat difficult thing will be to place a good looking jack for the 12V input where the mains jack is on the ST. One additional problem might be to make it actually turn on. On many ATX PSUs you can just short the PS_ON pin, but some don't like that and will turn off again, also if there's not enough load. I don't know enough about the picoPSU to really competently answer any of those questions.
Interesting upgrades there, I wish I could do these things! Sad about the Retr0bright though but at least now you have the option to spray it? Yikes maybe not... This is why I won't consider Retr0bright and keep my ST as is and authentic ;-)
I had to look through my old emails to find the invoice for the thing, but it's called CP-1013-ND and I got it from Digikey: www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=CP-1013-ND
tzok83 It requires a Multisync monitor. Or one that is old enough (or just weird enough) to sync onto the low frequency signal of the ST's video signal. Same goes for most retro machines that are RGB capable. Alternatively you could get a scandoubler, which makes it work on every modern monitor, but those can be a bit pricey.
Social Media Meham Haha, yeah. I usually end up checking the web for photos of my keyboard model because I almost always forget to take a photo myself :-D
Probably easier would be finding an old atari for spare parts with a case in a better condition to replace with and trying the retrobright process again if needed.
Redmond Cable out of Redmond Washington in the US actually would make one of those cables for you custom. When I was a kid I wanted to use my Sega Genesis via the RGB output on my Atari PS3000 monitor. I sent my request wish a $30 money order to Redmond and in 4 weeks I got my cable! It worked/works great and the quality was/is top notch! This was back in 1990 and when the 32x came out and then the Saturn after that I also had them make me cables for both of those systems. Redmond Cable is still around (they even have the same awesome logo!) just look them up if any of you are interested in custom cables. They're amazing! Actually if it's okay I will include their web address: redcab.com/home.php .
+flash /me back - i would leave the keys white, then paint the case the same color as your Atari shirt... put some clouded red LEDs in there, if you dont like the result, take them back out... or... Paint it green to match the UI... then green LEDs maybe... just enjoy it, no worries. FHL from KY
Danke! Ich hatte inzwischen etwas mehr Glück mit Floppylaufwerken, (siehe meine Amiga Videoreihe) - ich werde mich demnächst nochmal an das Atari Floppy ran machen und gucken, was da noch geht :)
Like the Amiga, the Atari ST computer uses the disk change (DC) signal. So, the PC disk drive also needs to be able to provide this signal. 😃
I wouldn't be so disappointed with the case. Overall you ended up with a better computer than before and it's being used and appreciated.
As an original Atari ST owner from back in the day, you have done a splendid job! I remember etching boards as a hobbyist many years ago. Your board looks great! Thank you for such an enjoyable video.
I like this video very much. Thank you for sharing your work and experiences. I don't think this is a failure...you have a lot of great stuff in this project!
Thanks a lot! I'm very happy you liked it. All in all it was a success, but the case is ruined. Lesson learned :)
I have 512ST (with 1MB) and 1040STe which was sold to me as defective, but turned out to be completely functional, albeit a little bit dirty and missing one keycap. Thanks for this video, I thought of retrobriting those, but now you've dissuaded me from that idea. I'll just retrobrite the keycaps, though, because they're supposed to be white so not much damage can be done to it. Great video, I love the detailed explanation about ROMs.
In this instance, it is ok to cut a rectangular opening in the case for an Amiga / Atari ST compatible PC disk drive. As long as it is done right, and looks good, it will not ruin the appearance of the Atari ST computer. Atari should have done it this way to begin with. I have always hated these none standard disk drive openings in vintage computers. It is one of the many reasons why I hate the poorly designed Amiga 3000 computer. Also, you could mount the Atari ST motherboard into a nice PC tower case. Then you can install Amiga / Atari ST compatible PC disk drives into that tower case. You could also install a Supra Atari Hard Disk into that tower cases. Spray paint the PC tower case Atari ST grey. Mask off and spray paint Atari ST blue stripes, like what's on the Atari ST boxes. Change all of the LEDs to blue LEDs. Then, you will have built yourself an Atari ST Tower of Power. Oh, you can find PC tower cases in grey, with grey plastic fronts. Then all you would have to do is mask off and spray paint the blue stripes. 😃
Great video, lost me a bit on the TOS Upgrade high level stuff, your English is ridiculously good.
urgh... made this comment before I watched the last quarter, after all that work I feel so bad for you for the horror show at the end, get a PO Box set up I am sure someone will donate a new case :)
You can mod a lot of PC floppy drives to work with STs or Amigas, just google for amiga pc fdd mod or something like that. Although there are no jumpers anymore, you can just cut a trace or resolder a bridge to change it from 1 to 0, furthermore you should be able to wire up the disk change signal too, just follow that guide. FB354s/FB357s are quite common in Amigas and Roland MIDI modules, but honestly I havent't seen one with similar eject button. Try cleaning up and lubeing the rails, maybe the head cannot reach a sector it's looking for - make esure it can traverse freely from end to end and there are no gunk residues. You could also use some kind of disk verify software, like diskcopy on Amiga, so that you can see what's wrong with your drive.
Love your channel BTW.
Yeah, I was going to revisit the ST this year. The floppy drive is definitely on the list of things I haven't given up on, yet :)
good to see you modified the drive rather than the case i need to replace my drive and also do not want to modify my case .
I love your channel man, so glad I found you randomly tonight, love your humor too.
I really enjoyed this video. I appreciate the amount of detail you went into about the whole process. You also have a great sense of humour.
Thanks! Not always sure my humor works, but many people say it does \o/
Very intelligent guy my 520stfm is broken I wish I had the skills to fix it like you have
I really like the result of the retrobrighting. It's like marble! I know it's far from authentic, but still it has some character!
Yeah, it does indeed look a bit like marble. I would like to fix my mistake somehow though :)
I learned somewhere that there is a VERY tiny capacitor on the underside of the drive that when it goes bad causes the motor speed to become unreliable. You will need to replace this and you can then use your original drive in your ST! :) Hope that helps your problem.
Excellent job you did there, especially with the ROM upgrade! Don't worry about the RetroBrite disaster, find someone that knows how to spray plastics, and get them to simply paint it the original shade of grey. Do not try to peel off the sticker as you'll never get it to lay flat again :-)
Darren Coull Thanks! I think I'll just stick with "cloudy white" as the new color of the machine. Could be worse, I guess.
I had something similar happen to my Atari. There are two options you can try. On my Atari, the case cover would look normal when it was wet. So if yours does the same thing, then go ahead and give my method a try. I used a magic eraser and went over the cloudy looking areas to level out the discoloration. that worked very well. I tried in one spot some matte clear coat . and that seems to level out the appearance as well. I cleaned off that spot and used the magic eraser on the entire case. I prefer this method, as I can still make changes to the appearance, which would be impossible with clear coat applied.
Good luck
I tried a magic eraser, but it has no effect :-(
I have been told to try vinyl dye, I think I'll do that some time this year.
Definitely no dye, it's a terrible idea.In that case I'd just leave it the way it is. See David Murrays video on how he tried different methods including dye.
ruclips.net/video/qZYbchvSUDY/видео.html
Pressing ESC notifies tos that there is a new disc (or image) and will display the contents. 😉
Right. And as far as I remember, the ST was supposed to behave like a Mac, but Apple got in the way with patents ... So, no floppy change auto detect, no auto floppy eject ...
Try RetroManCave. He is a youtuber who does refurbishments and knows a lot about retro-brighting. He might be able to suggest how to fix the unit. BTW I love what you all are doing to refurbish these old computers. I am an 80's nerd and these machines are quite nostalgic for me. Seeing them as they looked when new just takes me back!Oh on the floppy drive if you can determine whether it's a mechanical or electronic issue you may be able to repair it. Especially if the issue actually is with the controller. There are a lot of boards that are interchangeable and that would allow you to put the original drive back in place.
Hopefully by now you have got the case sorted out, but if not consider painting it. Back in 1989 at a show in London I remember seeing Jeff Minter's ST he/d painted matt black with white stars, comets and planets and a huge rainbow. It sounds garish, but it had been airbrushed and was quite subtle. Use a plastic primer so the paint doesn't just fall off (bumper primer from a car parts shop works). I tried it on my old 800xl which technically worked but my complete lack of artistic talent made it a bit of a disaster. I should have asked one of my more arty friends to do it for me!! I ended up a couple of years later swapping the case from an unworking xl and disposing the evidence!!
Not yet, but I've not been working on this machine since I refurbished it (except for playing games, but that hardly counts as work).
I've got some advice to try Vinyl dye. I'm going to do that in northern hemisphere spring or early summer. I'll make sure to get a video of the attempt.
I thought about replacing the case, but it's not easy to find an *actually* non-working 1040STf and I wouldn't want to take the case of a repairable machine.
I've got an ST G with a keyboard that yellowed exactly like yours - quite uniformly, but the [>
Oh I mostly did the PCB thing because it meant I could experiment with PCB etching some more. And as much as I like hacking things together, I didn't want to hack that much and just bend pins :-p
You didn't fail dude, kudos to you for taking on this task, I had 2 ST machines, 520STFM and 520STE, loved them both, loved this video, keep doing more, how about an old BBC micro ???
Paul Le Fur BBC Micros are a bit harder to get around herr, but there will soon(ish) be a miniseries about the ZX81.
29:50, a tip for getting solder out of those holes easier, without a pump. Put it over the edge of a table and heat it up, and you can just flex the board a bit with your finger and let it snap back. The molten solder will fall right out of there.
I got an actual desoldering station in the meantime. That works a million times better :)
I don't like flexing boards, you never know what subtle damage you produce.
TOS ROMs are available on eBay nearly all the time. I bought a set for my own Atari-ST which originally came with the floppy-boot ROMs, and then Atari sent me TOS 1.0. Now I have TOS 1.4.
It was fun to make this EEPROM variant though :)
@@flashmeback I'm sure. You sure learned a lot building your own programmer.
@@alhartman66 Certainly :-) I wouldn't want to work with this one professionally, but for hobby stuff it's awesome!
Not a failure at all, you refurbished it very good. Only bad luck on retrobrighting, maybe you can try again on another case. Cheers, M
I don't know if I want to do that to another innocent computer case :-p
That was an awesome video! I learned a lot! Sorry you had to find some things out the hard way. But now everyone knows what to do and what not to do.
I do not agree with you ! Your project is absolutely not a failure dude it's a "funny" handing but the work u've done is quite impressive !
Thanks! But it still looks kinda questionable now...
Regarding the plastic. I have found good use with ariel washing machine soap. Standard non-color type in powder form. Then mixed it with warm water untill it feels greasy like cooking oil. Then it takes 30 minutes of soaking and not 2 hours. I have done it with a keytronic keyboard from 1996. Works well with dirt.
I guess I'll give that a try. I don't really mind the 2 hour wait though, because I can do other stuff in that time :)
flash /me back I think it works on grime and fatt from fingers, because the soap has those ensymes. Sadly it is not going to take away yellow on plastic. That would be awesomme. Hydrogen perioxid is kind of scary if it gets on fingers. Anyway... Things do get clean this way.
That was pretty informative. Good job! And don't worry about the soldering, since, you know, es ist noch kein Meister vom Himmel gefallen.
For the retrobrighting(sp?): thanks for including this "failure" in the video. Not everything works perfectly all the time and yes, it will be a good reminder to be more careful in future.
Anyway: this was fun watching, and I couldn't do this myself if I were tasked with it. Daumen hoch!
Thanks for the encouragement :-) It can be frustrating sometimes when your lacking soldering skills make things take hours instead of the few minutes you had planned. But at least I can edit the worst soldering fails to look like I almost knew what I am doing :-p
That was a marathon job of upgrading and refurbishing you did. Shame that the case didn't take to retro-brighting, but it's all experience learned. I'd be tempted to get a broken ST and transplant the case (and floppy), or respray the case in a shade of grey matched to the original. I'm quite envious of you ability to solder directly to the mainboard and make your own circuits and daughterboards, though - that's beyond my ability.
Looking forward to watching your multipart Amiga 500 video. My first 16bit computer was an Amiga 500+. I still have it, along with an A600HD, a couple of A1200's and a CD32. Before the Amiga, I was using my ZX Spectrum +2A, and before that, an Acorn BBC Model B. Still have both of them, but the BBC B is dead at the moment. I have to investigate resurrecting that one.
There is a particular East German computer that has long fascinated me - the Robotron Z1013. I read about it via an article from Retro Thing a few years ago, but you almost never see anything about it in English (certainly not on You Tube, anyway). It was built using the parts Robotron rejected for their industrial and government computers. While we were playing on our Commodore 64s and ZX Spectrums and the like, that's what the few people in East Germany who could afford a computer were using - so long as they could build or scrounge up a PSU, tape deck, better keyboard, build a case, etc, etc. Do you have an thoughts about covering it? I think it would be really interesting to the wider Retro Computer/Video Game community who didn't grow up on that side of the Iron Curtain.
Anyway - excellent video. Looking forward to more great content from you at some point :)
Thanks for all the praise! In fact, my first computer was a 286 (which I got some time in the mid-90s, so you could say I was born a retro nerd :D).
I thought about getting a broken STf, but there not many available, really. And when I'd find one, I'd probably try getting it to work instead of stealing the case.
Please don't see my soldering as a tutorial or anything, I'm really bad at it. There are other people here on RUclips who are a lot better at that and actually know what they are doing. My electronics tinkering is more trial and error than anything else. Of course you don't see me failing for two weeks, I only show the final result and maybe a few of the more interesting fails inbetween :)
I'm familiar with Robotron, but I've never seen one. I grew up in Western Germany, and though I had relatives in the East, none of them was into computers at all (and I was 4 when the wall fell...). They're also relatively hard to get, even here. If I ever come across one for a decent price, I'll grab it!
All the parts of my Amiga video series are more or less finished, I'll release one every week. Hope you like them as well!
I'll be sure to watch them. I remember the wall falling vividly. It was just before my 13th birthday - The Berlin wall came down, the USSR collapsed, Romania ousted their dictator - it was a crazy time, seeing all this stuff I'd grown up with seeing in James Bond and other Hollywood movies as some sort of unstoppable evil empire, and then seemingly overnight, it was gone. Still, the period is sort of fascinating (from an outsider's perspective) at how people coped, and what technology was available - like in Russia, there were loads of clones of the Sinclair Spectrum, because it was so simple, relatively speaking. In fact, where I live, there are rich fishing grounds. We used to get Russian Fish Factory ships calling every summer - they would harvest the fish, process them on board. The crew would be relatively well paid, so they'd come ashore, buying up as many Levi and Wrangler jeans as possible, jars of Nescafe coffee, and Sinclair Spectrums, or cheap colour TVs to take back to Russia. We even got offered money for our car - a Russian Lada. Crazy times.
so much knowledge dropped in this video!
thanks man!
Get Testors Light Sea Gray spray paint and paint the case. I painted a SF354 drive case and it turned out amazing!
Great video. Subbed. My first ST retrobriting gave the same awful effect. I gave it away to TheBackOfficeShow and he used it for his ST videos.
I got a hint recently about trying vinyl dye on it to restore the color. I'm going to give it a try soon. Maybe it'll fix that problem (or make it ridiculously worse).
Modifying the side of the ST's casing was an actual mod we used to do back in the 90s.
And it just occurred to me that maybe the drive in your ST was single sided (it is an STF with TOS 1.0), and your test disk was double sided.
The drive had problems reading some of the disks I got with the machine, which according to the previous owner worked fine back in the day.
I just checked, it does have two read heads.
Might be more work, but have you considered just 3D printing a disk drive adapter and faceplate? You could probably even mount an opto-interrupter diode (or whatever it's called) to detect when the disk is inserted...
I had a computer called LAZER once, it was an Apple II clone.
iKarith that was it! the Lazer 128! I remember I had to get a boot disk from my computer teacher after class to use it.
unfortunately, beyond the boot disk I never got any software for it.
thank you for making this video, especially for showing the pitfalls, errors, workarounds etc... showing the problems you came across and overcame is much more informative than just showing an edited "successful" version, so thank you...
i also didn't think you failed in any way, your ST is not only much improved from when you started, but it also ended up with a unique character... :)
i know this video is a year old, as i write this,so you may have already gone down this route... but have you considered replacing the floppy with a gotek?
I thought about it, yeah. I have a spar Gotek drive lying around. I might still do it. Though I think I'll also give the original drive another chance. If I use the Gotek, I'll probably attach it externally.
"curly hair" and "liquid I could not identify"
Super. Ich bin begeistert von deiner Arbeit und motiviert meinen 1040 endlich flott zumachen.
Sehr cooles Video, ich habe es sehr genossen! Ich bin selber mit einem Atari 1040STFM gross geworden und da wäre dieser TOS-Umbau extrem interessant. Vorallem, wenn man in der Lage wäre ein noch höheres TOS als 1.04 einzusetzen (1.06 oder das korrigierte 1.62) welche ja erst in den STE Varianten zum Einsatz gekommen sind.
Soweit ich weiß benötigt TOS ab 1.06 Teile der neuen STe Hardware. Wird also leider niemals möglich sein, aber zum Glück ist ein STe gar nicht so viel teurer als ein STf. Zumindest deutlich erschwinglicher als ein Falcon :)
Ja schon krass, was man "immer" noch oder aber "wieder" für einen Falcon bezahlen muss... Trotzdem war es damals immer DER grosse Traum, irgendwann mal einen Falcon zu besitzen :). Die Demo-Szene hatte sich aber ja extrem auf die STF Serie eingeschossen, sodaß der Wechsel nie statt gefunden hat. Dort bin ich dann auch irgendwie hängen geblieben, obwohl ich schon viel mehr mit dem Atari gearbeitet als gespielt habe.
Hi. I'm after one of those vga cables for the atari st that you showed on this video.... Can they be bought from a shop online? (I haven't been able to find any). And also, what model ASUS monitor are you using for the atari st in this video? Many thanks. 😊
RIP I have a horribly yellowed ST and thought retro bright might be an option. There goes all my hopes and dreams.
I've heard from people who had more luck with retrobrighting STs. But I wouldn't do it again. Same goes for XEs. These will never get close to peroxide anymore if I can do something about it ;-)
ahh, the retina display quality of SM124... too bad it had this black frame around the active screen. It was capable of 1100 lines horizontal, but Atari only displayed 640 pixels...
Radio Żelaza I guess it's a limit in graphics memory. But yes, it looks pretty good for a monochrome screen.
Thanks for advising not to retrobrighting the case)) In fact it is also very hard to find that chemical stuff peroxide here in NZ! I would simply use another case which less yellow, but some yellow I think is fine as it shows that it is a retro stuff ) Anyway, I was amazed how you upgraded the TOS! Have you experienced any improvements after all?
Great video. 👍
I have quite some expirience with modding ST computers.
The reason the disc change detect is not working is, Atari used the write protect wire for that. You need mod the floppy drive a bit to make it work perfectly. A quick workaroud is, after changing the disc you hit ESC on the disc window, that forces a refresh.
I have recorded me modding a drive in realtime, in pretty horrible quality. ruclips.net/video/QAaAl2jma7Q/видео.html
In this mod, i also connect the HD detect signal so i can use 1.44 MB floppies. But you need a mod for the floppy controller for that to work. They are available sometimes on ebay, or you can ask in the german atari forum, someone might have a spare one.
I think the HD floppy mod is one of the most useful.
You can also add an IDE adapter and then use a CF card as harddisk, but that requires a bit more work.
PS: i just realized that you have the version where the CPU sits in the front under the keyboard, that makes it almost impossible to fit an IDE adapter.
Ok, for your floppy problem, try downloading the fmc.arc program from this page to reset the media change. www.atari.org/hosted/quickfaq/stfaq_3.htm#31
Also, swap pins 2 and 34 on drive cable like people do for Amiga Drives. Pin 2 is Density Select, and 34 is Disk Change/Ready. The idea is that when you insert a 720k disk, it will toggle the density select sensor, but since it is crossed to the Disk Change Signal, it will signal to the Atari that you have changed the disk. Some floppies have a jumper for this, others you need to coss the wires on the cable. Check some of the videos about modifying a PC drive for an Amiga for examples.
Doing the second one is easier, otherwise you have to have the fmc.arc program on every floppy. But if you have a hard disk, it makes this easier.
Oh, that's definitely something I will try when I go back to this ST which I want to do sometime this year. Thanks for the hints!
paint it! :) loved your video thanks!
Did you try cleaning the heads of the old drive?
VWestlife Yeah, that's the first (and only) thing I tried. It was relatively hard to reach the heads because of the form of the case of the drive. I may try again after removing more parts of the drive. That may make a nice follow-up if it actually helps. I'm a bit afraid of removing those tiny screws and springs.
@@flashmeback Side Select line may be busted (somehow). Otherwise you would get some kind of file error instead of bombs (that are a hint of corrupted binary). Also, you could upgrade this board with a blitter chip from a Mega ST.
Great job
Welcome to the world of the Atari ST! You've really jumped in with both feet! What model of ASUS LCD do you have that is compatible with ~15KHz? Does it do a true 50Hz or just upconvert to 60Hz?
I'm not sure! I assume it converts, but I couldn't find any reliable information. Not sure how to test properly.
It's a VE258.
Thanks! It's not a VE258Q, just VE258? That model is apparently much more rare.
50Hz is likely pretty common, but getting 240p 50Hz support is less common. LCD monitors often assume it's 480i and de-interlace it into 480p 25Hz. Easiest test would be to play a 50Hz scrolling game and see if it updates properly. Only one for a non-STE I know of that does 1VBL scrolling (8-way, at that!) is Enchanted Land. You might need to compare to a CRT in order to know for sure it's at 50Hz.
The ST stood for the architecture (which has probably been pointed out previously) Sixteen Thirty-Two
I think I didn't mention it, but it's good, descriptive name :D
@@flashmeback I thought it was a bit of interesting Atari trivia. The same applied to the TT series (Thirty-Two Thirty-Two) that followed closer to the end of the line for Atari as a company.
You could try DYING it instead of painting... its used on classic cars.. you have different colors maybe you can mix up a greyish one... have a look at www.vinyldye.co.uk/ ...
Hey, that's a pretty useful hint. I have just started planning the fix for this problem. The photos on that page look very promising.
So that's a cool Snow Leopard case :-). (Yeah, that probably didn't help)
Ich höre einen leichten German Acczent ;o)... warum nicht gleich auf deutsch - gibt leider, viel zu wenig solcher guter Videos auf deutsch! Trotzdem: gute Arbeit - vielen Dank!
I had the 1040 STE... Always arguments over what was better Amiga v Atari
Good thing is nowadays you're allowed to love both!
Hands down the Atari because of it's built in MIDI capability.
What retrobright process did you use? I'm curious because I've seen these types of results from spreading liquid on the item, covering and putting in the sun but submerging in liquid seems to be a more even process.
Yeah, I used the DIY cream method. Peroxide + Xanthan + Glycerine + Sunlight.
I didn't know about the submerging method back then. Would totally try that next time, it seems much safer, even if it's a bit more expensive.
I enjoyed the video very much, but the ending, kind of made me want to hang myself. Too much excitement I guess. Thank you and keep up the good work :)
Konnte der ST den auch direkt auf Basic booten? Ich hatte einst einen Atari XE, der auf die 8 Bit Atari-Computer basierte aber ähnlich wie der ST aussah. Ich wünschte mir, dass ich irgendwann mal einen XE (und einen C-64, wie wir ihn in meiner alten Grundschule in Hamburg hatten) wieder finden kann. Hier in Mittelamerika sind die Optionen aber etwas eingeschränkt. Übrigens kann ich mich nicht erinnern, dass mein alter Atari XE je einen Aufkleber der Deutschen Bundespost hatte (wie der bei 4:14, mit dem Posthorn und der Nummer 7 A302, was immer das bedeuten soll).
Der ST hat kein BASIC eingebaut. Das war ziemlich selten in der 16 bit Ära. Mein IBM PS/2 Model 30 ist die einzige 16Bit-Maschine mit BASIC ROM, die ich kenne.
@@flashmeback Ich weiß, dass der IBM PC AT (5170) BASIC im ROM hat.
@@bundesautobahn7 Wusste ich gar nicht! Mein AT Clone hatte keins :-(
I have a first 520ST without the floppy
The original Atari monochrom Monitors have a vey fast refresh rate of 60 HZ ,so i think a Original Monitor is a better choise
The SM 124 has a refresh rate of 71.4 Hz. Very crisp and steady display.
Not failure! I'm sure you will find a way to paint it properly.
Thanks for the clip.Lookup Best Electronics for Atari parts
Hi I was very intrested in obtaining the rom share mod you did would you make me one please
Do u have a tutorial on using picoPSU on ST? My STFM died and original PSU are hard to find.
I haven't tried that, but it looks like it should be easy to do. ATX (which the picoPSU is) provides all the required voltages, +5V, +12V and -12V. The hardest part will be tapping the -12V line (check this pinout: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX#/media/File:ATX_20-PIN.png ), it doesn't seem like there's a dedicated solder point for that.
Another somewhat difficult thing will be to place a good looking jack for the 12V input where the mains jack is on the ST.
One additional problem might be to make it actually turn on. On many ATX PSUs you can just short the PS_ON pin, but some don't like that and will turn off again, also if there's not enough load.
I don't know enough about the picoPSU to really competently answer any of those questions.
Interesting upgrades there, I wish I could do these things! Sad about the Retr0bright though but at least now you have the option to spray it? Yikes maybe not... This is why I won't consider Retr0bright and keep my ST as is and authentic ;-)
Can you tell us where you bought the video connector from and its part number?
I had to look through my old emails to find the invoice for the thing, but it's called CP-1013-ND and I got it from Digikey: www.digikey.de/products/de?keywords=CP-1013-ND
I would stick astro turf to it!
Have a look at Jan Betas RUclips Channel. He very recently repaired a very similar looking Amiga Floppy which had a loose head.
You will see that I am subscribed to Jan Beta since forever :-p
The RUclips user RetroManCave has videos showing how to restore old computer plastics.
Yes, I think he's mostly using doing retrobrite, too. Unless you're thinking of a more specific video I haven't seen...
How did you make ST LOW working on a VGA monitor?
tzok83 It requires a Multisync monitor. Or one that is old enough (or just weird enough) to sync onto the low frequency signal of the ST's video signal. Same goes for most retro machines that are RGB capable.
Alternatively you could get a scandoubler, which makes it work on every modern monitor, but those can be a bit pricey.
subbed, my friend
A good suggestion is to take a photo of they keyboard before removing the keys.
Social Media Meham Haha, yeah. I usually end up checking the web for photos of my keyboard model because I almost always forget to take a photo myself :-D
Lol.
@@ernestmac13 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout
@@flashmebackhe thought you incorrectly placed the keys.
all that messing with the drive and you gould have picked up a gotek with a 3d printed mount for the ST for around £30
Vileda Miraclean
Sponge will remove some spots from case
just one thing: 256 reads "two hundred fifty-six", not "two hundred sixty-five" (265). Congrats for the job!
Yeah, I am aware of that :-) It sometimes slips through when speaking freely. Stupid German native language!
you probably used too strong concentrate of hydro peroxide in combination with multiple applications which effectively ruined the case ..
Probably easier would be finding an old atari for spare parts with a case in a better condition to replace with and trying the retrobright process again if needed.
Redmond Cable out of Redmond Washington in the US actually would make one of those cables for you custom. When I was a kid I wanted to use my Sega Genesis via the RGB output on my Atari PS3000 monitor. I sent my request wish a $30 money order to Redmond and in 4 weeks I got my cable! It worked/works great and the quality was/is top notch! This was back in 1990 and when the 32x came out and then the Saturn after that I also had them make me cables for both of those systems. Redmond Cable is still around (they even have the same awesome logo!) just look them up if any of you are interested in custom cables. They're amazing! Actually if it's okay I will include their web address: redcab.com/home.php .
Rub armor all protectant all over the plastic it may bring it back to normal
I've never heard about that product, I'll check it out!
they say the yellowing comes back after a bout a year
Not in this case :-) Still the same marble-y ruined color it was a year ago!
lol
back in the day I payed 100 dollars for the TOS 1.4 rom chips
That's several times what I paid for the whole computer in 2017 :)
mine cost 400 dollars us used from toad computers they were a big seller of atari back then even mail order
try soda blasting it or do custom paint job
Yeah, I guess the case is looking so bad now, that a custom paint job could actually save it. I had thought about that. Maybe I should reconsider :)
Leave it like this and call it "1040 STF battle edition" :)
+flash /me back - i would leave the keys white, then paint the case the same color as your Atari shirt... put some clouded red LEDs in there, if you dont like the result, take them back out... or... Paint it green to match the UI... then green LEDs maybe... just enjoy it, no worries. FHL from KY
Das bringt dich weiter mit der Floppy!
www.pitsch.de/stuff/amiga/floppy.htm
Danke! Ich hatte inzwischen etwas mehr Glück mit Floppylaufwerken, (siehe meine Amiga Videoreihe) - ich werde mich demnächst nochmal an das Atari Floppy ran machen und gucken, was da noch geht :)
Buy a defect Atari and use the case and floppy. I hope you did the floppy correct. www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11708
Good luck ^^
well can spray paint the case and call it a mod
It would help if you would speak more slowly.
Haha, yes. I've heard that and in my newest videos I'm doing my best to do so :)
paint it black
don't use a headmounted cam - i had to vomin twice watching you video
I have do disappoint you. It's not headmounted, it's handheld :-p In all my later videos I am using a tripod, no more vomiting!
Great video!