Are Vintage Boutique BASSES worth the HYPE, or is it BS?
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- In today's video, we're exploring whether age truly improves the tone of a bass. Does vintage sound better? We're going to take a look at two Ken Smith BT6 bass guitars. Both appear almost identical at first glance, yet one is from the late 1990s (the vintage) and the other was built in 2021.
But which is better?
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Video Breakdown:
00:00 - Intro: Lines in the Sand
00:27 - Boutique Bass Builders
01:00 - Ken Smith Basses
02:05 - 1999 BT6 Details
02:47 - 2021 BT6 Details
03:21 - Pickups Demos
04:04 - 6 String Basses
05:49 - Song Demos
08:18 - So which is better?
09:11 - Outro
09:24 - Things to do with a bass #2
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No worries, just send me one of the Ken Smiths and we're all good!
@@markblackstad8705 Sorry he can't do that as he's already sending one to me
It hurts to know that a bass made in 1999 is now considered vintage. I feel so old.
i dont think that those are vintage at all
No shit! I have like five basses that are older than 2000, and I never think of them as 'old'. I guess that's because I myself am kinda old (37).
Man for real
I have my dad’s Aria bass that he bought in like 1982, would they consider it an antique then? 😅
@@valeriegoulettalbot9900 I"ve got a real antique - Framus Star bass I bought from a friend in 1969.
I feel like the 1999 bass has a more focused and mid-range sound, while the 2021 has a touch more low end and a bit more bite in the higher notes, tonewise i think i prefer the newer model, but they both sound incredible.
I actually feel the same as you, found the '99 a tiny bit more open and rich sounding. However, your '21 has a bit more bite. But what impressed me the most is that the differences were really subtle which tells a lot about the consistence these things deliver - over decades! Enjoy your new bass!
Honestly, strings, how you attack the strings and all of that could make a difference
To me, all I heard was the same bass... but "in context", somehow? '99 felt like it fitted better in all the tunes, but the more pronounced tone in de '21 made me think that they are actually the same... It's pretty damn wild. I'm confused haha
@@BourdeoixEterno Pickup height too. And the fact that the electronics are different. In order of tonal effect: pickups, pickup height and electronics, then strings.
I'm glad to see some six string love. They're still relatively new and often dismissed as a novelty. They're just now becoming old enough to be vintage. They really are the ultimate Basses.
We love a six string here at SBL!
P bass 1951 to first Ken Smith 6 string string 1981, 30 years
1981 to now, 42 years.
Not so new any more!
@@ClearStreamsUK I believe you're talking about something like a squire VI, which is basically a baritone, not a modern contrabass guitar. I'm always eager to learn. Can you send me some links?
@@alecrisser12 not really, as I said The first Ken Smith wide spacing 6 string Contrabass for Anthony Jackson was in 1981. The P bass was 1951. A difference of 30 years. The 6 string Contra has now been established for over 40 years. 10 years longer than the 4 string lived before the 6 string. So in my book no longer a newcomer.
I wasn't even thinking about the early 6 string fender or the squier copy.
You are an amazing bassist. No wonder Scott brought you on. Floored.
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I like the ‘21. It has such a good roundness to its tone.
I like the way the 2021 tone way better. It does sound modern but I like the way the sound cuts and blends with the music
Fantastic video, thanks for always leaving me something to enjoy during Saturday morning breakfast!
Never felt any desire for a six string until this video!
I couldn't tell a difference. Maybe I should listen again with my eyes closed. Either way, they both sounded amazing.
Be awesome to combine the 99s ken Smith's mid-vowel response to accompany the newer 21s punchy, more focused & even sound. great video and content as usual Ian!
Fantastic comparison Ian. Your playing is incredible and you are so insightful and inspirational.
LOVE the DT song. Would love to see John Myung on SBL.
We have a Bass Tales with him!
I love how when you’re playing the older one, the video is a bit grainy like it’s a VHS camcorder. Nice job Brother!!!!!
It’s all in the preamp voltage 18v is brighter which is what you are hearing. Livens up the tapping segment, but the 9v’s gives you that darker/sweeter more mid focused sound. It’s a subtle difference but a difference nonetheless. Great video, Ian. Ken Smith is a living legend, the Bass community owes him a debt of gratitude for his contributions.
I pretty much agreed that's the preamp making most of the difference between them. More than the woods' config imho
Can You explain how a different signal headroom can make sound brighter/darker? Doesn't make sense to me, because you most probably can hook up two 9V batteries to the 9V preamp and filters wouldn't change, only thing that will change is the level at which it starts clipping the signal. Another thing - if they get 3 wires from batteries to preamp (0, and +-9V), then You can get rid of bypass capacitors at the input and output, which could have been cutting off some very low frequencies, but it shouldn't make it brighter because of that.
To my ears the newer bass sounds deeper. I like that
i love the new model. i think that the hype about older basses only applies to a certain few (thanks leo)
Nice opening riff Ian!!!! Great video too Btw 😉
Always a good day when I wake up to a new SBL upload!
Great vid man loved how you did a few styles of music not just slap .
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I agree with danna3309. The newer model has more pop and the lows have more growl.
I have a slight preference for that.
I don't think we can make any conclusions about the wood, however.
I think this is easily attributable to the difference in pre-amp.
I purchased a 6-string Schecter studio and my kid broke a pickup.
I replaced the pickups and pre-amp with Aguilar's and it sounds AMAZING, now.
Cool video. I can never get over how different these basses sound on their own and in the mix of a track. Never cared for the solo tone but the way these sit in the mix is just KILLER. Same is true for Stringrays IMO. 1999 has my vote in this instance though.
Man I agree! Love how they feel inside a track.
I had listened to this record a couple days ago, brought back memories. Anyways nice chops, man and the harmonics sound good.
Awesome basses. My 1990 BT5 is my main bass. Tuned it down a half step, so I can hit those delicious low Bb's when playing along Richard Smallwood songs...
Sound-wise, for me it's all about context. I prefer the 2021 on the gospel song; it's got more focus to the lows and bit more pronounced top end that I think compliments that song better. Same with the Dream Theater track; it jumps out more on the 2021. I like the '99 better for the slap stuff, tho. Which is kinda weird because I feel like the '99 is more mid-focused, which is the opposite of what most people go for with a slap sound. Verdict: They're both killer basses, and they both sound like Smiths, even though they sound totally different!
Also, Ian, you're a freakin' MONSTER of a player! Awesome video!
Dude, Ive seen you in a bunch of SBL videos but havent really ever heard you play. DAYUM SON, you killin 👏👏👏
Great comparison! I’ve tried one Ken Smith bass, it was a 4 string and had the most amazing tone. Bucket list bass for sure.
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I prefer the sound of the 2021. It sounds a little fuller/deeper to my ears. Great video.
I bet being played for more than 20 years had warmed the tone of the ‘99. Sounds perfect over gospel. Though I prefer the 2021 for prog because it still has those clear harmonics and resonant midrange.
I was so happy to see Kirk Franklin being played I just saw his tiny desk concert and was blown away by the bass playing.
SAME!
Representing West and then East Coasts, recommend a 6th boutique builder, MIke Tobias, and comparing his Tobias 80’s custom 6-string with his current MTD 635-24.
Great playing Ian, good job. 👍
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Very slight preference for the tone for the 2021, but they both sound great. Of course, Scott's has more tonal options with the extra switches, and it may be that the newer one will "evolve" with use, so maybe this could be re-visited in a year or so? The playability is a key point, and I'm glad you mentioned that at the end; it means the good tones are more accessible . . .
SHEESH, after hearing that angelic playing, I’m gonna have to write up a game plan on obtaining a 6 string. Thanks Ian, I’m jonesing HARD now. Lol
Thank you for the upload, I own a 99 as well. From the hand rubbed dutch varnish (matte), book matched headstock and matching back body wings.the attention to detail these basses is in a class of its own. These basses simply cannot be judged simply by sound, but by the wholesome of playing while you hear the delivery of dynamic pressure of the strings. I customed ordered my KS and crazy as it may seem I had huge influence from same John Patatucci's instructional video. I even asked for the Silver Coin S on the headstock that JP had. Ken told me it was no longer offered... and years ago I saw that bass sell on Reverb... heartbroken... well you know my answer on which one I chose. lol
To me the 99 sounds more warm and generally speaking the foundamental and first harmonic is more pronounced. That's a game changer to a bass to my taste as a player and as a listener. Great video, you're great please continue we need you
These types of boutique basses never appealed to me, but I’m glad you like them!
They’re just another color on the palate!
That poor Ibanez musician in the closing credits😂… first based I ever owned back in ‘86… I’d love to know Ian’s thoughts on that too.
I love it! Used it on the Jaco and Bakithi Kumalo vids for the channel!
I love Ian's passion for bass. It is infectious
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Love this video, I wish more companies made quality 6 strings.
Long time Smith player here. The difference isn't so much the tone between the difference of them being modern and vintage... The difference is the core when it comes to tone. The tone difference is mostly from the mahogany core. The maple or walnut core Smiths don't sound the same vintage or not. If you can do this with two basses with the same core it will make a difference. Construction wise there a bunch of differences visually and feel wise but that is up to the player which they prefer. The best Smiths IMHO are ones with a Mahogany core.
Holy cow!!! They both sound ridiculously good👌👌
They (Smith) have been extremely consistent over the years!
I like the sweeter tone of the older bass. I have never had the opportunity to play a Smith...good to know they weigh a ton. Good video!
That was a nice story and I can definitely relate. Glad you finally got it. Great video! Also, vintage almost wins.
Love the modern bass in the mix but the vintage solo. Thanks for the video!
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MY GOD! The Growl this bass has is one of the greatest things I have ever heard! Beautiful basses, guys!
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@@devinebass 🤘🤘🤘
Great Video Guys. I think that Alembic were probably this first Bespoke builders of bass guitars, ie series 1 stanley clarke and also Carl thompson piccolo bass. Early 70,s.
Some thing to do with Jerry Garcia of Greatful Dead and one of the pa tech guys.
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Personally, i think the the yours is much more attractive (the wood grain and color), and if you like the feel of yours… isn’t that the better one? In my experience with music instruments, the more you play one, the better it will sound. Congratulations on getting the “childhood dream” bass, and cutting board. Cheers
I have a 2001 BSR5J that I ordered in late 2000, and it was delivered to me in February 2001. It remains one of my most prized possessions, along with my 2009 BRS6EG.
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Nice playing,you,gud gud 👍
I liked Scott’s bass better too. The newer bass sounded a bit muddled. I thought the slap sound was more similar than the other two examples. Both beautiful basses.
I was making guitar parts in NYC area and supplied parts to many of the luthiers learning their craft from 1975-1981. Some of those East Coast builders were great because they truly loved what they did.
I'm a fan since I heard John Patitucci on that KS, I love the sound!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought of dt when I saw a 6er
Came for the basses...went away with YOU! Man you are such a great player!!! Think I preferred the old one...a little more focused to my ears
I am with you 100% on Scott’s tone. It sounded better but not by a mile. Seems more like it has a touch less mids. Yours pokes out a little more and Scott’s is open every so slightly less mids and more sparkle or snap. Great video and even better playing.
I also think the reason your bass sounds more modern is the fact you’re bass has 18 volt system and I feel that is going to push everything just a little more. I think that is why Scott’s sounds more open as it is more passive so to speak. Less effect from the electronics.
This is just hilarious because one of the top comments on this video also says that the vintage one had MORE mids😂
I like the 99 a little better, but both are killer! Smith basses are amazing.
For preference - I’m vintage JP all the way.. but the newer model will get/keep your gig- much more versatile.
Both basses are undeniably Ken Smith, but I hear Scott's as a little rounder - warmer in the mids, perhaps a little muted on the top end, and Ian's is a little clearer with slightly hollower mids. But hey, changing strings can do that!
I agree, I like the tone of Scott's BT6 a bit better. It just sounds a bit fuller than the new one.
Scott’s has that rich low end and midrange growl. Whereas yours Ian I felt the high end was more pronounced. You had that thing singing in the upper register. Both amazing in their own right.
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Can’t pick a favorite. They both sound terrific. 1999 is a little burpier sounding. Bridge pickup maybe voiced hotter. The newer one sounds a hair deeper and smoother. Both are amazing.
Yours has more girth and growl. Neither is better and both sound great in their own way. Scott’s sounds like how you’d expect a KS to sound and yours has a more modern sound I think.
I'd like to see this same video done with a vintage P bass and contemporary P bass (preferably one that has similar specs).
Got a 6 string 2006 Ken Smith and a 1986 4 string ken Smith. The old one is the best sounding bass I ever played. Period. Every time someone tries it, he made me an offer. Hadrian Feraud also.
I definitely prefer the newer one! Sounds more like it knows what it wants to sound like.
I wouldn't call a 1999 Ken Smith "vintage". Vintage would be more comparable to a late 80's BT with the black oversized headstock and the original 3 knob preamp. Those are considered the hey-day and most sought after by us Ken Smith aficionados. Great video. I very much enjoyed it.
I own one from the late nineties. She amazing, super tone and very easy to play!!
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You forgot about the legendary Michael Pedulla and Alembic! He started in 1975 and I’m not sure when Alembic started but it was around the same time I’m pretty sure.
I see literally no reason to favor a vintage instrument over a new one. The only advantages I can think of is having a worn in feeling and a neck that has settled into shape, but that's something a well built bass should already have
i find your Ken Smith much better and deeper than other instrument
thank u
It’s amazing many of us have had the same story… I grew up the same way… saw the same JP Vid on VHS… and have NEVER played a Ken… playing since 95. I want the first time I play one to be special…
Had to double take the dream theater opener…didn’t expect that…👌
The walnut top makes me nostalgic for my old Roscoe fretless I'm still mad at myself for selling, so just based on that alone I like the new one better. I do also happen to like the tone ever so slightly better, too.
Cool video, sir. I've been wondering for a long time whether to invest into a newer style bass, or an older one. Think I'm more worried about the weight of an older one though, because I've got some issues with the wrist, where lifting heavy objects are concerned.
There is a guitar/bass strap from gruvgear called "DuoStrap Neo" that balances instrument weight on both shoulders, which could be a help to you. I am recovering from a serious nerve pinch in the neck, which causes significant pain all the way down the arm and including the wrist. So I highly recommend finding yourself a good physical chiropractor (not a nutrition supplement / muscle testing practitioner using the same kind of license) who may be able to quickly identify what's going on with your wrist.
@@BearfootBob I appreciate that advice, thank you. Hope you have a speedy recovery as well.
I bought the duo strap as well and totally love the way it puts the weight on both shoulders!!
In my experience basses that were made in the 80s and 90s run circles around newer ones. I only ever bought one bass from new, and it kept giving me headaches and problems, whereas the older ones were built like tanks despite having been on the road for far longer. BTW I'm talking the same brand. Different build quality, different build ethos, then it was built to last.
I personally prefer that 4-string Spector in the background better, thanks!
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Ken Smith Steel Rounds are my favorite strings. I got turned on to them back in college. I took an "Applied Music" course (private lessons for college credit). My teacher had a Smith that was probably 20 years older than Scott's. He sure could make that bass sing. He played a beautiful solo version of In My Life by the Beatles. I always asked my teachers what strings they use. At that time I was loving Blue Steels by Dean Markley, once they got broken in. Fresh Blue Steels had very "gritty" feel at the beginning, but once "broken in" would smooth out and would last forever. Ken Smith Steel Rounds are smooth and "broken in" right out of the pack and last forever. I'd change my strings once a year just to be safe, but could probably last longer.
I liked the B string on the 99 for sure.
The 21 might be clearer in the top but I’m not sure I prefer that
Even when I feel like a vintage man having my 40's this year... On the other hand just a little bit like starting playing bass... I love them both very much :) And these back sides are just perfect to me :D I'm a little freak as well ;)
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I prefer the sound of your KS. The extra headroom of 18v seems to project a fuller eq tone across the board.
The 1999 seems a bit tighter and has a bit more clarity in the low end to me, but they both sound amazing!
Starts with a deep cut dream theater clip. Like.
I still lust over the Ken Smith 6-string that John Patitucci had in the mid 80's. I saw it listed on Ebay a long time ago and have no idea where it ever went after that.
You'll never guess - Somebody bought it and gave it back to John! Check out this podcast where he tells the story...
ruclips.net/video/ZlvgIML6vUA/видео.html
Both phenomenal sounding basses. The best bass I ever played was a Ken Smith 6. I was in Avenue Guitars in Edmonton years ago and they had a BT6 there. I sat down with it and played the prelude to the Bach cello suite in G and ended up with an audience because the tone was just so incredible, like a fine classical guitar. I couldn't get over it. The sound still haunts my bass dreams. I think with time the '21 will sound even better than the '99 as the wood ages: its slap sound is already nicer IMO but the fingerstyle sounds better on the '99. I've got a '93 Ibanez Soundgear (pictured in my avatar) that sounds incredible after all these years of playing it, and it's just a production bass. Imagine what that many years will do for the '21.
The difference in those two could very well be the adjustments of the pickups.
As the strings die out, you can raise the different alen screw poles to compensate for the loss in sound on each string.
And thats two positions on each pickup.😊
I have a cheap Chinese Brice 6 string which has a great neck, low action, plays like a dream. I changed absolutely everything on it including pickup location. I got it to sound almost like a 70s Fender Jazz. I love this thing and for the money I saved compared to a Ken Smith I could buy myself a used Miata convertible LOL
Congrats! Its a shame that others don't understand that you can make an electric Guitar/Bass out of virtually anything. (The wood doesn't effect tone) The important thing is that the neck fits the body correctly and that the action and intonation are correct, and that the material the thing is made from is stable to stay setup. As long as the pickups are good quality and the electronics are reasonable you won't have issues.
As an electronics tech myself I find it ammusing the arguments between Sprague orange drops and the cheap green polyfilm caps that are 10x cheaper. and the supposed difference in tone ( there isn't any) Any percieved difference is due to the orange drops being tighter tolerance and therefore more often closer to the desired or specified value. If both are the same measured value they will sound the same.
Tone caps are not in the signal path!
But well done, now go enjoy that Miata
At times the difference is subtle but with no hesitation I would choose the "vintage" one. I made my decision before knowing what Ian has chosen, but after hearing his thoughts I agree that there is something more open in the tone of the vintage one, especially in the lower registries there is more "roundness" to the sound.
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The tonal difference is nearly negligable. The '21 seems to have the tiniest little bit more of top end ("zing" or however you call it) and personally, I think I like the '99 a little bit more, but overall, they have pretty much the same "core tone component". Fantastic basses! However, the Boutique Bass Revolution didn't start in the late 70s on the East Cost. It actually began almost 10 years earlier in California, when Ron and Susan Wickersham started a small family company named Alembic. And I'm extremely fortunate to own one of their creations - a 2000 Essence 5. And I absolutely, totally LOVE it. It's my forever bass, full stop.
Awesome man! We should definitely try get our hands on some Alembics and put a video together! 🔥🔥🔥
I went by Ken's shop in New York around 1981 on a return trip leaving Boston back to Memphis Tennessee where I lived. I was just about to start my double bass degree program. I got to play one of his original 100 builds. There's one in particular with being good top it was just beautiful instrument. After I'd gotten home sometime later he called me and said that the person that had commissioned That Base could not pay for it and had to Forfeit the deposit and ask me if I wanted it for $1,800. I said yes I would really love to have it but I'm just starting back to college to study double bass and I don't see it in my budget at this time but I appreciate you calling me. Looking back I should have gone to my parents and explained it I would still be playing an electric bass in jazz band and this guy was just trying to various of electric bass and it would be a wise investment in overtime to own one. But I was 21 and not very conniving. Now I realize that instrument would be worth about $7,000 but the money is irrelevant to me I could not believe how sensitive and intuitive and easy it was to play that bass. It had low action but didn't rattle or Buzz and you stroked it and you coaxed the sound out you didn't have to overpower it. I would love to still someday maybe on one. Life comes at you kind of weird and sometimes the timing is just way off.
I preferred the fingerstyle tone on the '99 and the slap tone on the '21. These are minor differences though. Both are amazing basses.
Had an 82 Smith, sold it in 86’….it was a great bass.
My overall preference is 1999. But I found it more suitable for 2021 when you played DT. Cheers!
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The new one has more clarity and vibrant sound quality 👌
I would guess the 99 would be easier to play. In my 26 years of playing bass and buying/selling I’ve always found the older instruments to be less stiff and more “settled in” when playing and with tone. My 99 bsr5gn is unreal. I think both basses sound like a smith and are incredible. But, they aren’t making ‘99s anymore lol. Great vid.
You and Scott should do a 6-string vs 6-string battle
Both are awesome..
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i love the walnut on ians
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Went in assuming I would like the 99 more, but I preferred the 2021. Sounded fuller to me
Oh hell yea!! Started with “lines in the sand” ya ya!! Myung is my bass god!!!!! Thank you for that Ian!!! 🤘😎
Killin bass playing by Myung in that tune! 🔥🔥🔥
@@devinebass absolutely!!! He’s the treason I play!
I like the Scott’s GT6 😊
The 1996 sounds INCREDIBLE, but the 2021 looks so good. 👌🏿
Greetings from Uganda 🇺🇬👊🏿🖤
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