Definitely sounds like both a4's needed a bleed. Even from the factory I found they needed a bleed to work well. Once bled they were the best brakes I have used so far as far as power and ease of lever pull. I prefer the feel of Hope levers though so I just put a Hope/Dominion brake togeher with Hope tech 3 levers and Dominion a4 calipers. Haven't tried it yet though
If I need to bleed my brand new brakes, I'll pass. Especially if I'd paid full price, ouch! I did think about it, but I didn't want to invest in a DOT setup just for that. I'll stick with mineral oil. I was never able to get Hope brakes to feel like I wanted after countless bleeds and a lever change so I gave up on Hope (no pun intended!)
The same thing happened to me, I kept changing brakes for over 16 years now, I had Shimano XT, Shagura with 8100XT levers and mt 5 calipers, Magura Luise, Magura Martha, Formula Oro, Avid Juicy Carbon and 5's and 7's...the list goes on, but the only brake system that stood out all the time was the Magura MT 5 4pistons, they bite hard if you want them and soft if you desire to do so, the stopping power is top-notch, not to say that the rest were terrible but they're different. Now I settled on MT 5 with HC levers and TRP 220MM rotors with 2.3mm thickness, I couldn't be happier, no more wrapped rotors. just FYI, use the 4 individual pads instead of the 2 stuck together, that way if one piston is misaligned you'll still get the most out of them. Thanks for the video, it came late but still good nonetheless!
Never settle for less than the best; I like your style. When I win the lottery I'll review the Trickstuff C42s, but don't hold your breath ;-) MT5s for now.
There are a few differences with rotors...Magura has a rotor with 2mm thickness for better heat resistance. Hayes and Hope use 1.8mm thick rotors. You can definitly use aftermarket rotors, but you have to keep the same thickness. The MT7 adjuster has a lot of adjustment, once you know how to use is.
@@davidthebiker2955 the BAT adjuster adjusts the distance from the Piston the the breather hole, so the empty tralvel of the lever is shorter or longer. To make the BAT work you have to adjust your lever distance. With these two systems combined you can adjust you pressure point to you liking
Hayes actually uses 1.95mm rotors which is closer to the maguras. I believe they're to be replaced at 1.8mm too so this could explain the crappy experience esp if he didn't want to bleed them between the hope and the magura rotors.
I had the MT7, I had Shiguras, and I have the Dominion A4 since 2 years. The Hayes are by far the best brakes i ever had. I think the Dominions in the video need a bleeding and the Magura Storm HC rotors are crap (and this Hope rotors also). I rode the MT7 first with Storm HC Rotors, than with Shimano. With the Magura I had fading on a 3 Minute Downhill with my Enduro. With Shimano rotors it was much better. I had a lot of Problems with the Magura Pistons on the saddle. If I had all 4 pistons working, it lasts for one or two rides than they began to stuck. I also never bleed a brake so often like the mt7 and despite that I never liked the feel of the bite point. The Hayes are super easy to bleed (fastest I ever had, even faster than Shimano or Sram), they are set and forget. Pistons worked perfekt for 2 years despite I did nothing on it. No fading, it had a super lite lever feeling, a good and strong bite point, always enough power and modulation for years. A MT7 might be stronger, but on longer downhills my hands stay stronger and much more relaxed with the Hayes. I did a fast bleeding last week because you should bleed Dot brakes after some time because the dot draws water. There were almost no air bubbles. I ride the Dominions with the Hayes rotors and the metallic pads.
I've had very poor experiences with Hope rotors, but mind you I'm on the trails on a FS MTB, not a trials bike. Your rear Magura rotor at 4:48 looks worn and Hayes designs their calipers to work with 1.95/2mm thick rotors. My experiences with Magura is inconsistent. While they're very strong brakes and lighter than the A4's, bleeding Maguras have been nothing but a PIA. You could bleed them in a garage or shop, they feel great, take them on the trails and it immediately feels like garbage. I took apart the caliper and found out why, there's several areas where air gets trapped and it's not easy to get all the air out without tapping the caliper while it's off the bike with 2 people helping with the bleeding. The lever body also has oddities where air can get trapped so I resolved to bleeding all Maguras off the bike with a partner to assist to get consistent results. I also don't like having the bleed port on the same side of the caliper as the banjo bolt which doesn't often get all the air out. A true crossflow design where the bleed port is at the furthest point is best. The Dominion A4 bleeding is more of a hassle than say a SRAM Code with their Bleeding Edge port but getting a good quality bleed is second to none. I've been on the A4's for a year without bleeding and just got done with it. The fluid was dark, but surprisingly the only bubbles I saw was because of simply attaching the syringe to the caliper/lever introduces a tiny bit of air. No microbubbles of any kind and this is the only brake system I've tested to be like this.
Nice video. I have a trailduro bike with standard SLX 7100 brakes and recently built an xc dually. For the xc build I found unused clarks m4 4 piston calipers for $20 on eBay and picked up some SLX 7100 levers for $58. So $78 all up. They perform far better than the slx twin pots so the trail bike (GT force) has the Clarks/Shimano combo and the xc dually (older Merida 96 build) has the slx twin pot brakes. The Clarks m4 calipers with ceramic pads, slx 7100 levers and tektro 2.3mm rotors (203/180mm) perform very well and take Shimano zee/saint pads which is a bonus.
Having used all three mentioned brakes my fave is the Dominion A4 hands down for the folowing reason xt wandering bite point drove me mad mt5s and mt7s too plasticky however the power and modulation is beautiful. Having said that the Dominions were awful the first few months i had them, Hayes pads and rotors were always squeaking and power was lacking so i decided to replace them with Nukeproof semi metalic pads and Magura MDRP rotors and boy did that make a difference. Power and modulation is exactly what the hype was promising us and they are absolutely silent even in the thickest mud Ireland can offer, bleeding is super easy too.
Thank you for puttingg this video out there, so i know i am not the only one who had the issue with the lever return on a shigura. But could you please script your videos for the future? at least that you know what you want to say istead of saying "uh" all the time and that way you wouldn't talk about things twice. keep it up! :)
I had, stroker, then Prime, guides , codes, then dominions, the dominions have lots of marketing features. Truthfully, the lever feel is very light, probably the lightest lever pull and most precise of any brake out there, they feel solid and snappy, lots of power and modulation, reach adjusters are the best, but the dual bleed ports and alignment grub screw don't really matter much and don't count for anything as far as I'm concerned.. Had a leaky master cylinder and they warrantied my master cylinder and seems fine for now.The front brake has been set and forget but I have had setup and bleeding issues forever with the rear brake. I got jagwire pro bleed kit so hopefully that will help get any and all air out of there.I got a set of MT5 and if I like them I'm gong to switch over. The hayes use a 1.9 mm or something rotor and with metallic pads they are pretty quiet compare to the other brakes. I think they are really good but if the mt5 are as good as far a peer and modulationI 'll be converting as they are quite a bit cheaper and use mineral oil. I think lighter too?
Hey, put in bionol that’s a oil with a more higher boiling point, 360 Celsius, and put in trickstuff brake pads. The shigura has almost the same power as the maxima….. and that’s the most powerful stock brake on the market. The lever is different because it has a servowave system in it. I’m conclusion, the shigura is the most powerful brake on the market.
My experience with the shigura brakes not so good like you mention it locks up easily and does not return fast like you mention also rotors seems to squeaks and so annoying. There is no modulation at all once you squeeze the lever that’s it will lock up! I went over the bar once on my enduro race on a steep switchback and I’m not even doing it fast.
An old review, so maybe it's possible to get an updated opinion? Presumably they've now been bled and you're using the correct thickness rotors and metallic pads? Should be a game-changer...
I'm not using the Shigura setup anymore, sorry. I did bleed mine and it was the same as a typical magura bleed just with the little shimano bleed cup on top.
That was great! I like your thoughts on different brakes. I have a shimano road hydro brifter set up with a magura mt4 caliper and it works great! Did you end up getting a Hex after your Czar was stolen? Edit: Nvm, I saw it at the end of the video! Congrats! maybe a review coming up for the Hex?
Yup, you saw it, got the Hex. Not sure about reviewing the Hex now that the new one is out, but I guess they only changed the color. Hopefully a riding vid on the Hex soon. Fingers crossed! Thanks for watching!
Cool, thanks for the real world riding/review...I was about to pull the "trigger" (or lever? haha) on a set of the A4's, but now I'm going to just get the SRAM Code RSC instead...since most reviews are super solid on them. Not sure about Magura but probably nice, used to run the old hydraulic rim brakes back in the 90's.
So you didn't use the Hayes rotors and refused to bleed? No wonder you didn't like them. 😂The Hayes rotors are thicker than some at 1.95mm, which affects clearance and thus deadstroke (as well as possible dragging). Maybe try them the way they are designed and read the literature about the engineering and design and how the parts interact to accomplish their design goals...
@@swoofty1 so you are a "reviewer" who couldn't be bothered to make sure his brakes are properly set up. And the. Will give a bad review, probably due to pilot error. Buy a bleed kit buddy, and do the job right. Or be lazy and mislead people. Whatever you are into!
Hayes, Magura and others make rotors that are 2.0mm thick. TRP now makes rotors that are now even 2.2mm thick. None of that will affect stopping power.
Definitely sounds like both a4's needed a bleed. Even from the factory I found they needed a bleed to work well. Once bled they were the best brakes I have used so far as far as power and ease of lever pull. I prefer the feel of Hope levers though so I just put a Hope/Dominion brake togeher with Hope tech 3 levers and Dominion a4 calipers. Haven't tried it yet though
If I need to bleed my brand new brakes, I'll pass. Especially if I'd paid full price, ouch! I did think about it, but I didn't want to invest in a DOT setup just for that. I'll stick with mineral oil. I was never able to get Hope brakes to feel like I wanted after countless bleeds and a lever change so I gave up on Hope (no pun intended!)
@@swoofty1 for most enduro bikes u´ll get internal cable routing so you will be entiteled to bleed after installation....
Yea I had to bleed my codes in the first day I got the bike
The same thing happened to me, I kept changing brakes for over 16 years now, I had Shimano XT, Shagura with 8100XT levers and mt 5 calipers, Magura Luise, Magura Martha, Formula Oro, Avid Juicy Carbon and 5's and 7's...the list goes on, but the only brake system that stood out all the time was the Magura MT 5 4pistons, they bite hard if you want them and soft if you desire to do so, the stopping power is top-notch, not to say that the rest were terrible but they're different. Now I settled on MT 5 with HC levers and TRP 220MM rotors with 2.3mm thickness, I couldn't be happier, no more wrapped rotors. just FYI, use the 4 individual pads instead of the 2 stuck together, that way if one piston is misaligned you'll still get the most out of them. Thanks for the video, it came late but still good nonetheless!
Never settle for less than the best; I like your style. When I win the lottery I'll review the Trickstuff C42s, but don't hold your breath ;-) MT5s for now.
There are a few differences with rotors...Magura has a rotor with 2mm thickness for better heat resistance. Hayes and Hope use 1.8mm thick rotors. You can definitly use aftermarket rotors, but you have to keep the same thickness.
The MT7 adjuster has a lot of adjustment, once you know how to use is.
Care to explain about the MT7 BAT adjuster? Never did anything for me either.
@@davidthebiker2955 the BAT adjuster adjusts the distance from the Piston the the breather hole, so the empty tralvel of the lever is shorter or longer. To make the BAT work you have to adjust your lever distance. With these two systems combined you can adjust you pressure point to you liking
Hayes actually uses 1.95mm rotors which is closer to the maguras. I believe they're to be replaced at 1.8mm too so this could explain the crappy experience esp if he didn't want to bleed them between the hope and the magura rotors.
No U can use thicker Brake disc idk what U talking
I had the MT7, I had Shiguras, and I have the Dominion A4 since 2 years. The Hayes are by far the best brakes i ever had. I think the Dominions in the video need a bleeding and the Magura Storm HC rotors are crap (and this Hope rotors also).
I rode the MT7 first with Storm HC Rotors, than with Shimano. With the Magura I had fading on a 3 Minute Downhill with my Enduro. With Shimano rotors it was much better.
I had a lot of Problems with the Magura Pistons on the saddle. If I had all 4 pistons working, it lasts for one or two rides than they began to stuck. I also never bleed a brake so often like the mt7 and despite that I never liked the feel of the bite point.
The Hayes are super easy to bleed (fastest I ever had, even faster than Shimano or Sram), they are set and forget. Pistons worked perfekt for 2 years despite I did nothing on it. No fading, it had a super lite lever feeling, a good and strong bite point, always enough power and modulation for years. A MT7 might be stronger, but on longer downhills my hands stay stronger and much more relaxed with the Hayes.
I did a fast bleeding last week because you should bleed Dot brakes after some time because the dot draws water. There were almost no air bubbles.
I ride the Dominions with the Hayes rotors and the metallic pads.
I've had very poor experiences with Hope rotors, but mind you I'm on the trails on a FS MTB, not a trials bike. Your rear Magura rotor at 4:48 looks worn and Hayes designs their calipers to work with 1.95/2mm thick rotors.
My experiences with Magura is inconsistent. While they're very strong brakes and lighter than the A4's, bleeding Maguras have been nothing but a PIA. You could bleed them in a garage or shop, they feel great, take them on the trails and it immediately feels like garbage. I took apart the caliper and found out why, there's several areas where air gets trapped and it's not easy to get all the air out without tapping the caliper while it's off the bike with 2 people helping with the bleeding. The lever body also has oddities where air can get trapped so I resolved to bleeding all Maguras off the bike with a partner to assist to get consistent results. I also don't like having the bleed port on the same side of the caliper as the banjo bolt which doesn't often get all the air out. A true crossflow design where the bleed port is at the furthest point is best.
The Dominion A4 bleeding is more of a hassle than say a SRAM Code with their Bleeding Edge port but getting a good quality bleed is second to none. I've been on the A4's for a year without bleeding and just got done with it. The fluid was dark, but surprisingly the only bubbles I saw was because of simply attaching the syringe to the caliper/lever introduces a tiny bit of air. No microbubbles of any kind and this is the only brake system I've tested to be like this.
Nice video. I have a trailduro bike with standard SLX 7100 brakes and recently built an xc dually. For the xc build I found unused clarks m4 4 piston calipers for $20 on eBay and picked up some SLX 7100 levers for $58. So $78 all up.
They perform far better than the slx twin pots so the trail bike (GT force) has the Clarks/Shimano combo and the xc dually (older Merida 96 build) has the slx twin pot brakes.
The Clarks m4 calipers with ceramic pads, slx 7100 levers and tektro 2.3mm rotors (203/180mm) perform very well and take Shimano zee/saint pads which is a bonus.
watching this after i’ve just purchased them 😬
Having used all three mentioned brakes my fave is the Dominion A4 hands down for the folowing reason
xt wandering bite point drove me mad
mt5s and mt7s too plasticky however the power and modulation is beautiful.
Having said that the Dominions were awful the first few months i had them, Hayes pads and rotors were always squeaking and power was lacking so i decided to replace them with Nukeproof semi metalic pads and Magura MDRP rotors and boy did that make a difference.
Power and modulation is exactly what the hype was promising us and they are absolutely silent even in the thickest mud Ireland can offer, bleeding is super easy too.
Thanx man! That was quite interesting.👍🏻
Cheers from Germany ✌🏻
Very informative. Thank you.
Thank you for puttingg this video out there, so i know i am not the only one who had the issue with the lever return on a shigura. But could you please script your videos for the future? at least that you know what you want to say istead of saying "uh" all the time and that way you wouldn't talk about things twice.
keep it up! :)
I had, stroker, then Prime, guides , codes, then dominions, the dominions have lots of marketing features. Truthfully, the lever feel is very light, probably the lightest lever pull and most precise of any brake out there, they feel solid and snappy, lots of power and modulation, reach adjusters are the best, but the dual bleed ports and alignment grub screw don't really matter much and don't count for anything as far as I'm concerned.. Had a leaky master cylinder and they warrantied my master cylinder and seems fine for now.The front brake has been set and forget but I have had setup and bleeding issues forever with the rear brake. I got jagwire pro bleed kit so hopefully that will help get any and all air out of there.I got a set of MT5 and if I like them I'm gong to switch over. The hayes use a 1.9 mm or something rotor and with metallic pads they are pretty quiet compare to the other brakes. I think they are really good but if the mt5 are as good as far a peer and modulationI 'll be converting as they are quite a bit cheaper and use mineral oil. I think lighter too?
Yes, lighter too.
Hey, put in bionol that’s a oil with a more higher boiling point, 360 Celsius, and put in trickstuff brake pads. The shigura has almost the same power as the maxima….. and that’s the most powerful stock brake on the market. The lever is different because it has a servowave system in it. I’m conclusion, the shigura is the most powerful brake on the market.
My experience with the shigura brakes not so good like you mention it locks up easily and does not return fast like you mention also rotors seems to squeaks and so annoying. There is no modulation at all once you squeeze the lever that’s it will lock up! I went over the bar once on my enduro race on a steep switchback and I’m not even doing it fast.
Good review,epic tshirt,thx a lot
An old review, so maybe it's possible to get an updated opinion? Presumably they've now been bled and you're using the correct thickness rotors and metallic pads? Should be a game-changer...
I have over 400 miles on mine and they're fading fast, even with new pads. WTF.
Could you do a bleed video on a shigura setup. Tried it on mine earlier and I could not get the rear right
I'm not using the Shigura setup anymore, sorry. I did bleed mine and it was the same as a typical magura bleed just with the little shimano bleed cup on top.
That was great! I like your thoughts on different brakes. I have a shimano road hydro brifter set up with a magura mt4 caliper and it works great! Did you end up getting a Hex after your Czar was stolen?
Edit: Nvm, I saw it at the end of the video! Congrats! maybe a review coming up for the Hex?
Yup, you saw it, got the Hex. Not sure about reviewing the Hex now that the new one is out, but I guess they only changed the color. Hopefully a riding vid on the Hex soon. Fingers crossed! Thanks for watching!
what adapter is he using with the hayes? I see it is magura, but which one?
Sadly that bike was stolen and I don't remember which adapter I used. Sorry
hows the modulation for shigura?
I'm not a good judge of modulation and I only used it for trials. Others say it has great modulation; felt the same to me.
Cool, thanks for the real world riding/review...I was about to pull the "trigger" (or lever? haha) on a set of the A4's, but now I'm going to just get the SRAM Code RSC instead...since most reviews are super solid on them. Not sure about Magura but probably nice, used to run the old hydraulic rim brakes back in the 90's.
Do Hayes use a 2.3mm thick rotor???
Hayes rotors are 2.0mm thick, same as Magura.
They are 1.95mm from Hayes literature, measurement, and printing on rotors.
Interesting, but…these are hybrid setups, and desperately needed bleeding. Cannot use as a guide for effect or feels. Should be properly set up, IMHO.
hEAVY DUTY BRAKES FOR A LIGHT DUTY BIKE. 🤭
They are powerful but bit of a stretch to call them heavy duty,also that's a trials bike...they need lots of braking power
So you didn't use the Hayes rotors and refused to bleed? No wonder you didn't like them. 😂The Hayes rotors are thicker than some at 1.95mm, which affects clearance and thus deadstroke (as well as possible dragging). Maybe try them the way they are designed and read the literature about the engineering and design and how the parts interact to accomplish their design goals...
This sounds more like a neurosis than a brake problem .
Hard to complain about brakes if you are afraid to bleed them. Geewhiz man, hardly a fair review.
Not afraid, just not set up for DOT brakes and no desire to spend even more on failing brakes. You shouldn't have to bleed new brakes for a long time.
@@swoofty1 so you are a "reviewer" who couldn't be bothered to make sure his brakes are properly set up. And the. Will give a bad review, probably due to pilot error. Buy a bleed kit buddy, and do the job right. Or be lazy and mislead people. Whatever you are into!
Hayes rotors are thicker than every other rotor so if your not using them performance won't be the greatest
Hayes, Magura and others make rotors that are 2.0mm thick. TRP now makes rotors that are now even 2.2mm thick. None of that will affect stopping power.
It affects clearance, drag, deadstroke, and bite point. Power, no.
Bicycle people have NO IDEA what they are doing with disc brakes...CLUELESSS just taking wild guesses. .... .find a motocrosser to take you to school.
Try hope tech 4 E4 brakes.