What a great interview! Neal has famously never written a book about the events on Everest in May 1996 but his story is a critical one in understanding what went on. He came across as honest and self-effacing, articulate and respectful. This was a mesmerising and truly memorable interview - thanks so much.
Neal is in pretty much every single story about '96, and for good reason. He's an incredible sportsman and mountaineer, just so intelligent but inherently fun loving.
2 года назад+3
Nice bloke. Everyone else from that expedition cashed in.
I read "Into Thin Air" when I was 29. I'm now 54. I've followed all of the careers and stories of all involved in the 1996 disaster. Neal is a hero, as are so many others, including David Breashears, who recently died. I'm watching this video for the 3rd time, in honor of David and all of the others who were lost or forgotten. I always wanted to meet Charlotte Fox.
So wats ur take on , Into thin air" ...was it purposefully defaming Pittman? Because even beidelman is calling it creepy....or perhaps beidelman doesn't now want any controversy.....ur take on it?
@@annamalayadevi I've read Into Thin Air many times and don't think Krakauer was overly critical towards Pittman. She was a high society starlett and her eccentric presence on the mountain did put pressure on the commercial climbing companies. But Krakauer never said that she did that intentionally, its just the nature of things. He openly admitted that his own presence as a journalist writing about commercial climbing also put additional pressure on Rob Hall and subsequently on Fisher as well because they competed for the American climbing market. I don't know why Into Thin Air gets displayed as being anti-Pittman so often. Pittman isn't even that big of a factor in Krakauer's report. He only made two major points regarding Pittman. One is that Lopsang carried her heavy satellite equipment up to camp 4 and therefore was extremely exhausted the next day. And the other is that Lopsang short roped Pittmann on summit day for several hours which weakened him even more so that he was too tired to help roping the route and later wasn't able to help Fisher climbing down. But Krakauer didn't blame Pittman for that. The reports of Pittman and Lopsang regarding the short roping are contradictory and what Fisher had told Lopsang about it couldn't be verified. Fact is that Fisher was especially keen to get Pittman to the summit because of the pr that would come out of that.
I read Into Thin Air in middle school in the 90s. I picked it up again and read it in one day. I couldn't put it down. What a harrowing tale; as a child, I truly didn't comprehend the intensity of what happened. I can't believe I can just sit and watch an interview with Neal Beidleman just like that. Thanks for the interview!
@@marksauce2383right? Like, if it was fiction, I would enjoy it but would call some parts too much. That it actually happened harrows me in ways I can't explain. Beck Weathers's story is particularly absurd.
Amazing interview, he seems like a really amazing man to know. Anatoly said he didn't use oxygen because he had been on 8000 meter peaks all year and was totally acclimatized. The following year he did use oxygen when guiding on Everest because he didnt spend the year on the mountains. So, I don't think it was ego. Anatoly said he didn't feel he needed to be on the mountain because there were three other guides with all the clients, and it was better to have a guide rested and waiting at camp, which ended up saving everyone in the end.
@@msmo2060 Anatoli was acclimated and rested properly unlike the clients he was bringing up the mountain- this along with his high level of experience at altitude and his physiology gave him the necessary mental clarity. he saved many lives.
@@msmo2060Scott Fisher in an interview before the climb clearly said that Anatoli will not be using Oxygen...he had even given permission to Lene Gammelgaard to climb without any Oxygen but later changed it...she had to use Oxygen
Doesn't matter how many times I hear about this event. It fascinates me. It has excitement, horror, tragedy, love, hope and survival. Its shocking and astounding the power of nature. The majesty of the mountain. An the respect it deserves. I like many others have wanted to hear Neals thoughts. So thank you for bringing this to us. Hes truly a humble man. Thank you.
Yeah, me too. I see videos and listen to audio books, almost everything I can find about this tragic event. For some reason I can't stop myself. It's one so sad unbelievable story and so many people died for all the wrong reasons. Almost everything that happened was things done "wrong". Every guide line in the book ended up not used despite all involved peoples agreement and knowledge. To be able to listen to Ned's experience is really interesting. I'm grateful he was on Everest when it all happened.
What a class act you are Neal. Your consideration for the memory of those lost as well as not throwing mud at anyone else's mistakes. You are definitely the definition of a hero
This is such a valuable piece of the story. Early in the interview, Neal offhandedly said that he could talk for hours and hours about it. I screamed in my mind, "YES, PLEASE DO talk to us for hours and hours about it!! Clearly, that wasn't going to happen ib this interview, but I'd LOVE to hear the WHOLE ENTIRE story from beginning to end from his perspective. I wish he __would___ write a book, or just do his own RUclips video talking into the camera. What did he not have time to tell us?
Terrific interview with a most wonderful guide and human being. Thank God he was on the mountain that day. Saved a bunch of lives and deserves the highest acclaim.
Neal gives me big Viggo Mortensen vibes, humble but a vastly intelligent man of the world. Also, Neal shouldn't sell himself short. He's a professional, accomplished, veteran, all around sportsman. Other climbing legends are just climbers; Neal's a rare breed, a unicorn, where he can stick with legends from multiple pursuits. His time ski racing in college and everything else he does contributed to his notoriety. Everest 96 just gave his humanitarian side a chance to shine. He's one of the true heros that day, he and Mike grooms were the true leadership in both presence and action from start to finish with that whole tragedy.
Neal and Mike grooms are truly underrated both have done so much they are total badasses Mike grooms took two trys for kasanjunka after that first man in the world to summit 4 tallest with no gas then 1996 he and Neal just unbelievable Neal is so modest to me Anatolia broukas should have stayed with gas to help get clients down that was his job ,but thank goodness he took the torch after Neal and Mike made it back Charlotte fox was so good telling her tale beck weather's storytelling is a force to make you feel it all ,sand hill is also unbelievable can't help but love them all I can't get enough of the story thank you millhouse for Neal's story awesome
I'm from Japan but left the country in 92, so wasn't aware about Namba, until I watched Storm Over Everest. Thank you for trying your best to save her, Neal. RIP, Namba san.
He gathered a group of 7, decided a haven route and spot for them, got actual help to come. He wasn’t even the lead. Before that he put in the missing fixed ropes, prior to the start of the climb, that a Sherpa had neglected to do. HERO and natural leader.
Neal sensed that they were about to fall off the Kangshung face and he was right. By stopping to huddle up he saved all their lives! The following year, Anatoli found Yasko’s body on an Indonesian expedition just meters from the face, and gave her a proper burial. Of course this says just as much about Anatoli’s character as Neal’s. Truly, they’re (were) two gems of human beings.
a lot of people don't know this. when Boukreev returned to Everest the following year he also recovered some of Yasuko's personal belongings and delivered them to her widower. absolutely was a great guy.
@@davidschneide5422 Lots of questions varied answers. After reading many memoirs from people who were there in 96,the 1 thing agreed upon is Rob and Scott didn't follow the 2pm turn around.also Rob wouldn't leave Doug,even though he was as good as dead.I will never understand how Rob thought sacrificing himself was going to help anyone and left his pregnant wife.
@@lisaperry5999 I think I can explain it ... you have to re-read Boukreev and Krakauer's books carefully. Both books say that sometime after reaching the balcony, Doug wanted to descend. Two others from Rob's group had already decided to descend, as well. Rob was following-up at the rear of the group. When Doug had descended to Rob a conversation ensued and, for whatever reason, Doug changed his mind and continued on with the ascent! Everything changes for the worse at that precise moment, unfortunately, IMO. Rob had talked him out of the descent. To have abandoned Doug would have destroyed Rob's sterling reputation. From that moment on, Rob could not possibly abandon Doug. Had he simply allowed Doug to descend, unfortunately, Rob and several others would likely still be alive. Of course Doug wouldn't have made it back solo. One question worth asking is was there a Sherpa remaining to shepherd him back to the South Col?
Hmm. Beck Weathers tells a different story. On his talk Beck tells of Neal pulling Yasuko's hand off his arm and leaving her. Either way I'd rather have been up there with someone who wouldn't leave their client like Rob Hall.
Anatoli Bouchareev saved 3 lives while no one would go out in the freeze, which included Biedelman who was in a sleeping bag with teeth chattering. FU Biedelman. Anatoli is the hero of this story. Not u.
@@sk-wh6bxhe mentions that he saved people. He also mentioned that Anatoli was in his tent while everyone was stuck in the storm because he got cold and left early because he chose not to use supplemental oxygen.
@@sk-wh6bxdid you even listen to his story? Beidleman was the one out in the storm tending to not only his clients but dragging Yaduko as well, while Boukreev was sleeping in his sleepingbag. He made his way into camp by being watchful, watching when the storm calmed and seeing the stars and the upper part of the mountain. He then guided Gammelaard, Groom, Schoening and the 2 sherpas back to the tents where he woke up Boukreev and told him there were still people on the south col. Without Beidleman, Boukreev would not even hve know there were people in trouble. Neal had just spend 27hours outside and in a storm with temp to minis 70, and you blame him for not going back out with Boukreev? Where was Boukreev when Neal was dragging Pittman off the mountain? Where was Boukreev when he was dragging Yasuko of the mountain? The audacity of blaming Neal being in his sleeping bag is just mindblowing
Blown away. Pittman (Aka Sandy Hill) just recently gave her rendition on some tiny channel that I will not promote . This came up next in YT suggested. Best medicine to hear Neal’s 1st hand honest, humble and detailed account for the first time. It happened. It’s not going away. It just is. Thank you Neal for doing this interview. 🙏🏼
I was secretly hoping they’d somehow stretch this into a part 2. Amazing perspective and a moving story from a very humble guy. Thank you for sharing (:
The biggest difference between Neal and Anatoli is cultural. Neal is american, Anatoli - russian and both had very distictive views to same things. Russian mounteneering school is harsh. In 1996 for a russian climber to understand basics of american commercial climbing was kinda impossible. You can feel it in Anatolis book. He was certain - everyone should climb Everest by himself. No pampering, no kindergarten, or pushing someone up the mountain for fame. You paid money, ok we will help you with a trip, camp, grear, aclimatization, fixing ropes, giving instructions. But you need to climb and get down by your own. You can feel frustration in Anatolis book, he didn't understand how (and why) all theese people are here and want to climb Everest. He didn't speak english well, so he was more connected to the sherpas as to the clients, to other gides and to Scott. He needed money badly, that's why he came as a guide with Scott. He was very superior as an alpinist, better as Rob or Scott and it was not his jam to be a guide. (It's kinda like a great surgeon, who doesn't have money and instead of working as a main doctor, is working as an asistant in surgery and only gives tools then mandatory.) He tried several times to talk to Scott about problems in the group as he have seen it, but Scott didn't listen. So seems like he just caved in and did only technical job: fixed ropes, made camps with sherpas. He was disconected from others mentally and saw himself more as a technical support, but not the one who should take care about people. Neal on the other hand is pure american guy from Aspen. Educated, polite, nice and helpfull as every good american guy next door would be. He was more connected with clients, kinda part of the gang. But he seems alsonot connected with Scott. Scott behavour is still big mistery, he seemed really off. Like it wasn't his expedition:( maybe he was really sick and wanted to hide it or it was some other mystery. So it's a great thing Neal was a great american guy who saw as his responsibility to get all people down. Actually it turned out gut that Anantoli was a crazy russian guy, who wasn't perfect on a daily basis, but was crazy brave in critical circumstances. I'm not sure if any nice american guy would left a safe tent and went into deadly danger to save someone. It wasn't reasonable what Anatoli did to save others. You need to be desperate russian for it. So at the end they both did a great job and both are pure heroes. Both made mistakes too, as anyone that day on the mountain did. But basically it was a broken rule "to turn back after two pm" and later a strom reallly to blame. In a good weather all of them would made to the camp even late at night. And someone could come to help Scott. Maybe Rob Hall could come down or even manage to get Doug Hansen with, if the weather was ok. Storm messed up and people did the best they could.
Great post. If we look the entire picture its just a series of unfortunate events. Long ago I thought Anatoli was partially at fault but he was climbing with no oxygen and that obviously was okay with Scott. Clearly someone climbing without o2 will not be able to support the clients 100 percent. The fact that the team leaders were climbing with the clients makes it really hard for them to make clear decisions when needed. Most of the climbers were not wearing communication gear so that made it even worse. One thing that I know very little about is what was happening with the base camp managers when the 2pm turnaround was not being followed. I know Rob had coms gear and the conversations they had with him long after 2pm. There is video with Rob discussing how he might become unpopular because of decisions he might have to make during the climb but it doesn't seem like he made any except for staying with Doug and dying with him. I think a lot of changes occurred to how they manage the mountain after this event but in the end its up to the individual to come down. Not for someone to come up and get you.
You really really bring up a great point. I was thinking, after absorbing all of this over time, why would Rob and Scott break their own rules, only to die? And in that, everything is explained. Hence, here we are talking about them almost 30 years later.
Its always seemed very clear that without Anatoli’s action to go down unannounced, had he not been at the tents, and had he not gone back out to save those people, THEY ALL DIE. Of course Anatoli and Neal are both heroes
Watched this for the 3rd time. This is just beyond. I think this will be my favorite podcast episode ever on youtube. Guys please bring him in again. Discuss Everest mystique even more, the gear, what does it take etc etc. This is unreal!
disagree with you. He carried Yasuko Numba and finally abandoned her. He is saying: We leave main group, because he should to go to the camp and call the rescue. Neal just said to Anatoli where are other clients.
This is an amazing interview. That last anecdote about him being in the band on Andy's return from Innsbruck in '76 gave me goosebumps! Such wonderful serendipity. Neal is so humble, and thoughtful. When commenting on the divisive topics Andy brought up, for example Anatoli not using oxygen, not trying to blame anyone, only explaining their decision based on their background, and trying to give the most respect to them by trying to do his best to express their point of view as he understood it, even though he himself could never completely understand it. I am absolutely floored by his complete respect for his fellow climbers on that day. It's too bad people like Neal aren't the leaders of our society.
Terrific interview! I’ve always mostly believed Krakauer’s take on the disaster. I only about 50% believed the account in “The Climb” (remember, this book wasn’t written by Anatoli but by an American names Dewalt and it is mostly a 3rd-hand account-Anatoli to a translator, translator to Dewalt, Dewalt in the book) But I have always believed Neal 100%. This wasn’t his career, he was friends with both group leaders, and per everyone involved, made no major mistakes that contributed to the deaths. So he has no reason to lie. I’m so glad that I found this and glad to see he’s doing well ❤️
@@allanfifield8256 I am currently working my way through "The Climb" audiobook. This far, I've got to agree. The author's disdain for Krauker is palpable.
@@Clint52279Exactly. Krakauer wrote his book as a journalist. He was on the Mount Everest as a journalist. Anatoli (DeWalt) wrote his book as an angry response to Krakauers book. I've read both books and I am inclined to believe Krakauer more.
I am not familiar with the Climb. However I can see how many of the events were viewed differently by the people who experienced it. It was traumatic for each individual. So thus each story will be slightly different. For example in John's book Anatoli went back to help others. Was he a perfect guide? According to John he went way ahead. Did he help when things went south, again according to John, Yes. When people experience trauma it is through the lens of their emotions at the time. I have been listening, reading accounts from many from this disaster. I have listened to Beck (sp?) I listened to an account by another gentleman though for the life of me I can't remember his name. Doug maybe? Anyway what a tragic tale.
I think I met Neal when he was with Rob and Scott with Larry Tudor at Tekoa/Spokane. It was June 1990 and we were all at Larry Strom's place. Scott looked right at me and told me to look for their Everest feature in Life magazine 6 weeks later. That was an amazing weekend where I and others sat quietly listening to them talk. All we could do was listen. Listening to this brought back a lot more of those memories. I am amazed how respectful Neal is in telling the story. Respectful. Diane's fish was delicious, with all that lemon on it!
It seems like a lot of problems he describes with guided expeditions could be ameliorated if the companies adopted a true mountaineering motto: rather than "We will get you to the top", it should be, "We will get you back alive. You will experience what the mountain permits." That is how all living alpinists approach climbing. One discrepancy: Beidleman didn't bring Sandy Pittman and Charlotte Fox into camp. They couldn't follow him from the impromptu huddle. He told Anatoli Bourkreev where they were; Bourkreev then risked his life on two separate trips to physically drag them in succession into camp. Of course, Beidleman might aver that such heroism wouldn't have been necessary if Bourkreev had been on oxygen and did his job by staying with the group. Also, it is interesting the effort he puts into not saying anything bad about Sandy Pittman, who clearly caused a cascade of worsening consequences with her selfishness. I wonder if she is litigious.
To be truthful, I needed to say that Neal didn't come alone to the camp, he came with Lene Gammelgaard (a Danish climber, client) and Klev Schoening (an American ski racer, client). In Anatoli Bukreev's book, it is written that Lene says it was Klev who was the first to figure out where the camp was (when they got lost on South Cole) and was very certain about it. So all the people (3) who could walk at that stage went that direction (Tim Madsen stayed with Charlotte and Sandy to help them survive until help came). Lene and Klev gave most of the information to Anatoli. Neal was totally exhausted. He did a terrific job of taking people down and trying to keep them as safe as possible in the circumstances. He offered to make a dog pale and wait until the storm comes down. It saved their lives. But then he reached Camp 4, he wasn't able to take the cats off the boots and barely spoke, so Anatoli took his cats off (cats could damage the tent, so they should be taken off before going in) and Anantoli mostly spoke to Lene and Klev. Anatoli went out three times. At first he didn't find people, at second he brougth Charlotte, at third - Sandy Pitman and Tim came on his own with them. Lenee and Klev gave perfect directions. They need credit for it. And Tim could have save himself, not to stay with barely alive women. As Lenee said he was able to walk but have chosen to stay. He didn't abandon them. Big props for him to. Acually I don't see any covard that night at the mountain, people did the best they could. It's hard to blame anyone who didn't came to help Anatoli. His resque mission was pure suicide. And I'm very pissed then people blame Anatoli for climbing without oxygen and coming down before clients. Of couse if he was a wizard and could predict the future - he is to blame, but otherwise - in no way. Who blames him doesn't know much about him.
But their oxygen ran out by the time they were in trouble, so if Boukreev went up on oxygen and stayed with them he would have been in just as much trouble as they were. He did carry a canister with him and gave it to Neal, who started to have trouble with his before the storm even hit.
@@BabyPrincess687 people who blame Bukreev often mention that he needed to go down quickly because he was climbing without oxygen. But these people forget a fact that Bukreev stayed at the top for 1,5 hours and waited for someone to come. He wasn't in the hurry. Actually nobody should stay at the top for long. It's recomended to stay for 15 min: take some photos, enjoy a moment and go down as quick as you can. With or without oxygen - your body is dying slowly in death zone. So it's wise not to waste time in that place. Anatoly was an alpinist who climbed without oxygen, he always said it's better for him because with proper aclimatization he feels good and dosn't need to worry about runnig out of it. He always said that climbing with oxygen and later stoping using it made him feel much worse as not to use at all. Neal said in this interview it was some part of pride in it also. Maybe... he was at the scene and knew Anatoli personal, of course should know better as anyone who just studied this tragedy after from different sources of information. And these sources sometimes contradict one another. So is hard so say, how it was for real. But to blame Anatoli is not fair. People make sound like he is the only one to blame in this tragedy. Acually you can blame all guides, all clients and all sherpas if you want. Every one did or didn't do something that in perspective turned out to be a mistake or even a misconduct. But I choose not to blame anyone (even it's hard for me in my mind not to blame Scott (RIP), because he was the boss and from him in a huge part depended all rules and roles in his expedition). But anyway... even with all mistakes, chaotic summit and decend all clients would reached the camp 4 if the weahter didn't change. So really is a storm to blame. They run out of oxygen, it was hell a storm and they still managed to go down and get lost only because they could't see the camp 4. If they could see it, they all would come into the camp by themselves. Only one who from the "Mountain madness" team would be in real trouble with good weather was Scott, because he was in trouble long time before the storm hit.
Thank you guys so much for this great interview. I enjoyed every moment. Such a nice atmosphere. Mr. Beidleman is a kind of hero to me. He didn't write a book or tried to make this event work for him. A lot of greetings from Germany 🇩🇪❣️
Great job by all 3 of you! I think Andy let Neal tell most of the story with minimal interruptions even more so than usual, I think that speaks to the gravity of the story and his accomplishments.
Now and again you come across people who embrace the concept of how short life is..Neal understands this at an extraordinary level...his humility is on another level too...Withers still has to be the shining light of this expedition.
Well done Neal Beidleman. Your ethics and strength were exemplary in an unimaginably difficult situation. So sorry so much went wrong around you. And I can understand your reasons for going back. Your experience really has taught lessons to many people. May we all strive to cope and lead as well as Neil Beidleman did at Everest.
Neal Beidleman is just a superior human being. He went into one of the most dangerous environments for humans and seemed to thrive in it. He managed not only to get through it but saved a number of people by practically carrying them on his back. If that team had five Neil's on it the whole expedition would have likely made it back trouble free. He did all of this with great humility and class. I hope to be half the man he is someday.
I have read this book several times. I am amazed at the sheer determination of the people depicted. It is nice to hear individual stories. I am most amazed by Beck Weathers. How that man survived was in my opinion determination and some help from above. David Breashears (according to many reports) helped so much. I wonder if he had not been filming during that time if things would have been worse. I feel sadness for the Sherpa guides. I feel as if they don't get a lot of credit. However John does mention them a lot in his book.
I have seen so many documentaries on this event, I was really moved by this story. Thank you for doing this interview, it was really great to hear his part of the story.
But in spite of the fact that Anatoli didn't use oxygen mask, he saved 3 people, that's why nobody from the clients died, but for Scott himself. Anatoli did his best for the clients. The rest who died were from Rob's company and Anatoli wasn't responsible for them. If Anatoli kept staying on the summit, would he be able, exhausted, to save people later? He would also be kepted by bad weather like everybody, he wouldn't have strength to save anybody. But he had a chance to have a rest. Why should he had stayed on the summit together with two other guieds (he didn't know about Scott's bad condition). Secondly, there was no logical need for Scott to go up when all clients were already decending. Scott didn't think about his client's safety at that time, he only thought about his reputation, that's all. Scott is a good man and strong alpinist but he had made a fatal mistake that costed his life and could cost life of his clients.
It's funny how people on this comment judging Neal and Anatoli and everyone in that tragedy, while they're just chilling in their nice comfy house having no idea what exactly happened in that expedition. However amazing interview, Neal is very articulate, considerate, humble
Neal Beidlemen please begin a career as a reader! I love his storytelling or narrative style and he speaks so clearly about the mountains and candidly about his nearer to death experiences. I saw him tell his story on the PBS special about the events on Everest in 96 and thought he was a standout. I was captivated listening to him!He seems like a Californian to me.
Great podcast, I could have listened for another hour to Neal's stories. However, I took issue with the host's question on whether Anatoli's decision to climb without oxygen may have cost people's lives. Except for Scott Fisher, who was responsible for himself, all of the Mountain Madness members survived. Maybe that was for dramatic effect, but the facts do not support that insinuation. Neal even said that the leaders and co-leaders are all culpable; one of the few to have the courage to say that. Taking inexperienced people up mount Everest, deciding to short-rope others, not having ropes in place, ignoring a storm that's been on other's radar for 5-7 days, ignoring the clock and waisting hours up on the mountain because ropes were not fixed, etc.. But somehow, people take issue that Anatoli climbed without oxygen. By the way, he had made ascents to 10 of the 8,000+ peaks without supplemental oxygen, and twice on Everest before 1996. He was able to do it, and it wasn't about proving in 1996 that he could do it. Neal said he and Anatoli fixed ropes, and that Anatoli had a bottle of oxygen which he gave to Neal. Later Anatoli left, and Neal said he waited about 2 hours for clients, while trying to use as little oxygen as possible. Remember, he had Anatoli's bottle as well. What would have happened had Anatoli stayed there and used his oxygen? They would have very likely run out of oxygen before the clients reached the top, or soon after. No one had enough oxygen for how long the trip lasted. Also, on the way back, Neal mentioned how they all ran out of oxygen and took whatever bottles were available on South Summit. What if Anatoli was there as well, would they have had sufficient bottles for all? Would Neal have been okay without Anatoli's bottle of oxygen? What exactly could Anatoli have done extra had he been there with 10 extra bottles of oxygen? Fly them all to the camp? He would have been caught in the storm, just like the others. Anatoli leaving the top was actually providential for the Mountain Madness team. Because he gave his oxygen bottle to Neal, ensured Neal could stay longer at the top and be okay on the descent. Because he left earlier, meant he was the only one able, and willing, to go out and rescue three people.
I think it’s not about “what ifs”… the possibilities are endless and there’s no way of knowing. The point is, imaging paying 60k and your guide goes down before you?
Well said. I will never understand how Boukreev is blamed for the deaths of people not on his team. I guess because Rob Hall had a warm personality and Boukreev was more direct and “cold” it’s easier for people to blame Boukreev when as much as Rob was for all accounts a great guy, he made some bad calls that day that cost his clients their lives. None of that is on Boukreev, who rescued all of his team members who needed help in the storm.
@@ferreira8649yeah that piece is understandable for people to take issue with, but leaping from that to blaming him for the deaths of people not even part of his group bc of decisions their leader made is the part that gets me.
Wow, with Neil’s refusal to even say Sandy Pittman‘s name is just a testament as to how fiercely she has come after these people and threatened to sue them if they speak about her. She really isn’t a very good or nice person.
She doesn't come off as the most pleasant in anyone's account of the 1996 incident but since the media and public attention around her has been so exaggeratedly negative, I'm guessing it was affecting her career and her family's well-being. I understand how that would lead her to suing.
The day I smoked my first cigarette was the day I'd never be on Neil's fitness level and skill. Takes great willpower, humility and inner strength to reach goals Neil has surpassed. A real American hero.
you should quit now if you havent already. i was a heavy smoker and i quit and took up exercise instead. my oxygen saturation levels are now higher than most non smokers
I don't think a single man is to blame, but the - sadly - wrong or ill fitted decisions of some helped the desaster to unfold. I understand, empathically, why Rob convinced Doug to keep ascending (both Jon and Anatoli explain in their books that Doug was about to descend, talked with Rob and then continued ascending - what was spoken between those two will never be known). Rob felt sorry and bad for Doug to "fail" again. But Rob himself broke his own strict rule that 2 pm was the very latest descending time, no matter if you've reached the summit or not. If they had followed that rule, Doug and Rob and Andy might have had a chance and would still be alive today. Also him (Rob) telling Beck to wait for him instead of descending as soon as others came by, was also a gravely misjudgment. Beck had many opportunities to descend with other climbers but stayed were he was because of his promise to Rob. Since Rob had convinced Doug to keep ascending, he no longer was able to descend in time by himself. He had now bound his fate to that of Doug and even though the initial decision to let him ascend was wrong to begin with, I admire Rob for staying with Doug till the end. However, that led to Beck's near death experience and his severe injuries. If he had descended earlier with the other climbers, he wouldn't have been part of the group getting lost close to Camp 4 and maybe there would have been capacities to save Yasuko, too. Makalu (the Taiwanese climber) ascended on May 10th, even though he had agreed not to. More people on the summit means more traffic jam and more people in need of rescue. Maybe Scott Fischer could have been saved if not for Makalu lying in his close proximity and being saved first. Scott himself overestimated his physical abilities during that climbing season and was definitely not in the shape to summit that day. He did, nevertheless, and also overstayed his welcome on the summit. I understand his desire to get on top, for business purposes, however, he was too weak during that time and his ambitions made him blind and a poor judge regarding his own capabilities. We will also never know what was agreed on between Scott, Sandy and Lopsang regarding the fact that Lopsang practically carried Sandy up the summit, using up most of his strength, not finishing the fixing ropes, etc, since Scott and later Lopsang died (and Lopsang gave different statements regarding that topic before his death) and Sandy claimed that she never agreed on being pulled up. I personally believe that this was an inofficial plan between these three to get Sandy up. She was one of the most ill fitted for the ascend (not saying she was a bad athlete or climber in general, but for that task, she was not ready) in these groups, but who knows if she promised money or good publicity to Scott if she made it up that hill. Lopsang being weakened by the task of getting her up, was not able to aid Scott on the way down. Also him not fixing the ropes led to the traffic jam at the Hillary Step which led to a delay in the ascend and descend of many climbers. Sandy slowed her descending group down and used up way too much oxygen, also of others. As Jon himself said, him failing to see that Andy was in severe danger and struggling with HACE and/or HAPE, hence reacting irrationally, contributed to the desaster. I don't blame Jon in any way, especially not for mistaking Adams for Andy and giving false information about Andys whereabouts (Andys family and his partner gave him a lot of grief for that) - regardless, Andy would have been dead anyway. If he died on the way up to help Rob and Doug or if he had fallen down the grate, as Jon initially thought - the outcome would have been the same. Jon tries to understand in his book why he failed to recognise Andys condition and I think his explanation sounds quite vaild to me. Jon was a client, Andy a guide. Jon was also at his limits and struggling with lack of oxygen. But yes, if he had recognised the bad shape Andy was in, maybe he could have helped him down. But it's not to forget that Mike Groom, a guide, was also with Jon and Andy at the time and also failed to see what was going on with Andy. Andy being severely affected by HACE and/or HAPE also led to the misunderstanding concerning the full oxygen tanks. Andy claimed vehemently that the reserve tanks were empty, leading Rob to stay with Doug instead of descending to catch some oxygen tanks himself. By the time the misunderstanding was out of the way, Doug was already lost (literally) and Rob too weak to go for himself. However, the fact that Andy went up again, trying to help Rob and Doug, even in his catastrophic own state, is something admirably. He acted heroically, and paid with his life. Anatoli did some kind of solo trip, going his own speed, not waiting for clients, not using oxygen. I personally think that Jon's criticism is valid regardless. Many guides agreed that using additional oxygen while being a guide should be mandatory, since you are not only responsible for yourself, but your clients too. Anatoli risked a lot of his capabilities when doing his solo maneuver. Obviously he had no other choice than to descend quickly after reaching the summit, since the risk of developing HACE, HAPE, exposure, hypothermia and other physical weaknesses increase immensely without any additional oxygen. It will never be fully cleared if Scott agreed with Anatoli to go without oxygen and be ready at Camp 4 for any inconvenience that my occur. Scott died and Anatoli obviously made this claim. Neil himself said he never heard of such a plan and Jane Bromet also said that Scott was dissatisfied with Anatolis unsocial behaviour and solo maneuvers before the summit. If he das used additional oxygen, maybe he would have been able to help Scott to descend, or maybe he would have been able to help others, like the group around Yasuko and Beck, before they got lost in the storm. That doesn't diminish the fact that him going out late at night during the storm to rescue some of the lost climbers was an heroic and incredible act of strength. What he did was outright admirable and he definitely saved some lives that night. However, maybe some of these lives wouldn't have been in danger to begin with, if he had acted more as a guide and less than a soloist. Many decisions that day, small and not so small, led to the tragic outcome of this day. I do believe that all had the best intentions and nobody could foresee the storm that made everything a hundred times more difficult. There are also many "ifs". If Rob, if Scott, if... Of course we will never know what would have been, "if" these people had made different decision. It will always remain a speculation. I wish all of them to rest in peace.
Many mistakes have been made that led to the disaster of the 1996 expedition. But probably the biggest one was not to follow Rob Hall golden rule to turn around at 2pm. That could have saved most climbers lifes. Good interview, thank you.
I think the mistake is not quite about missing the turn around time. The mistake was making a business decision, and that means attempting to get the "clients" get their money's worth of experiencing Everest. So they didn't have the heart to tell people to go back down, which would mean some would not summit at all, having gotten so close.
@@DaoNguyen-nx5fq It was even worse. There was nobody who could tell them. The guides, Anatoli and Neal were far ahead, - fixing ropes where the sherpas didn't. They summited alone before clients and waited for hours. It seems like Neal and Anatoli had no permission to tell anybody to abandon the summit and get down. Anatoli went down, passed the group of clients by, and didn't say anything. Neal stayed on the summit and waited for clients to come, even though it was very late and he needed to go down and tell the clients to do the same. But seems he didn't have that permission either. So Scott should have toldit, but Scott was even more late and not with the clients. As I understand it, professionals at that time did not always follow rules and made different accends, sometimes alone, sometimes late at night, and most of the time they managed to come back to camp 4, because they were pros (alpinists, sportsmen, and very high-profile mountaineers). And as commercial climbing began, it seems like they underestimated the danger that comes with people who are clients. Later, rules on the mountain changed a lot, and today thousands of clients come to Everest, and it's very clear - you should turn around at 2 PM, if you're not a pro, but in 1996 it wasn't that obvious.
Hanson was never going to listen being that this was his second chance that Rob gave him on the cheap- the guy was a mail worker, he may not have another opportunity. So he wasnt going to listen, and Rob should have left his ass
@@kch7051 if you read some of the comments on this thread, apparently couple people who was there said Doug was ready to decent without summiting but Rob had told him he will make sure Doug make it to the top. Thus Doug struggled on and by the time Rob realized that Doug just can’t cut it, it was too late. Either Rob leaves Doug on the mountain by himself and take on a huge reputation damage or he will somehow get Doug down. At the end of the day, it appears that reputation trump common sense. My guess is at that altitude, smart decision making is hard to come by.
My fav person on this planet..living the life on a top of everything, got there had helped others, even stayed 1h:45min on summit waiting..amazing life you have sir adrenalin, God bless and have a blast 💪💪
I'm saddened to see that Neal has flip-flopped and thrown Anatoli under the bus. Neal is quoted as saying, in a tape-recorded debriefing that was held on May 15, 1996, five days after the tragic day on Everest: "I knew Anatoli had gone down. I had no problem with that. I knew that it would have been nice for him to stay, but at the same time it wouldn’t have necessarily facilitated our descent any better. I wasn’t aware of his instructions to go down immediately from Scott, but, after hearing that, I support that. I think that’s a very good idea, and in fact, had he not gone down, his efforts at the bottom collecting people wouldn’t have been possible." Source: The Climb Anatoli descending ahead of the clients was an agreed upon plan, a plan that was agreed upon on summit day when Scott Fischer (the expedition leader) and Anatoli talked that day, and a plan that Scott had in mind well before summit day, which is confirmed by Jane Bromet's testimony that Scott had told her about this plan in advance. One day the record will be set straight. Anatoli was nothing less than a hero on that day.
I totally agree. And previously Beidleman has said that he and Anatoli were fixing rope together, after Lop So bailed. Here, Biedleman is saying,he was doing it alone. At the end of the day, it was a blessing that Anatoli had left early. They didn’t need two guides sitting on the top doing nothing. Otherwise three more people would be dead that Anatoli had ended up saving because he had the strength after he rested. That said, Anatoli decision not to use oxygen was a bad one.
Anatoli was stubborn and not fulfilling his duties as a guide for WEEKS before the summit. Scott, an affable guy by everyone’s standards, had taken to complaining to close friends in the groups about Anatoli’s unwillingness to do his job that he was paid $25,000 for (while the other guides made around $10,000 and the sherpas $2,000). Anatoli wanted to appease his toxic masculinity and summit without oxygen. He was too cold to stay up there, so he descended. There was no set plan; what Scott discussed with Bromet was simply brainstorming, and it happened 3 weeks before the summit. The other guide-Neal in this video-confirmed there was never any plan, and that Anatoli and Scott hadn’t spoken below the summit. Anatoli’s selfishness was likely a small contributing factor to the avalanche of issues that day. Yes, he was heroic and brave later. But he was also obstinate and self-serving earlier. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive.
It was too obvious how this podcast guy was trying to make Neal say negative things about Anatoli. This thing about Anatoli's ego... Just bad taste that. Who are you even to have an opinion? Do you know anything about the mountains? Or did you save anyone in your lifetime? The worst of the American culture is exactly that. But Neal is a classy act. Yes, there are cultural differences. Neal does not get where Anatoli was coming from. As Anatoli did not get all this catering to client's every whim thing. But still Neal refrains from harsh judgment. Also his trying to explaining how he could not go back out... Anyone with any sense understands it was an impossible thing to do. It was impossible even for Anatoli, who rested at the camp, but he was just a crazy person with superhuman abilities. I believe 100% that both Neal and Anatoli did everything they could and more. They are both real heroes.
Anatoli didn’t need to “get” catering to clients’ whims. He was paid $25,000 to do a job, and he dropped the ball many times, according to Scott, Jon, Neal, Michael, and many more.
One thing not mentioned here, but fresh in my mind from just having re-read Into Thin Air, was an additional complication. There were extra bottles of oxygen which possibly could have been retrieved, not far from where Hall was. But Andy Harris, who was delirious from oxygen deprivation kept radioing there were no available oxygen bottles. Anyway just thought I would throw that into the mix.
What a brave man, I could not be more impressed. There are times in his retelling where he crosses his arms when talking about how cold it was that night.
I enjoy Neil’s interviews. He is intelligent, gracious, and so experienced. I also love his voice. Thank you Neil for being level headed and talented as a guide and a mountaineer. You saved their lives.
What does he mean by saying some things Boukreev did were made up? If so, it probably wasn't Anatoli but Krakauer. Boukreev was used to climbing without oxygen and it's a bit unfair to blame him for any death, solely. On that expedition many subpar things happened and a number of critical decisions were made. I prefer to remember Boukreev as the one who saved lives instead of being responsible for people who unfortunately died.
I believe he means Anatoli wasn’t supposed to climb without O2 and he wasn’t supposed to go down before the clients. But because he did so, he was able to save two people and nobody from their expedition lost their lives. So it was convenient for Anatoli to say he went down to camp 4 to get some rest so he’d be ready to help if anyone needed. In other words, his mistake ended up saving two lives and he was kinda like “yeah that wasn’t a mistake, it was my plan all along”. Don’t get me wrong, I have no doubt in my mind Jon Krakauer lied (a lot) in his book.
Such an excellent interview…a true hero. I wonder sometimes what would have happened had the ropes been set at the balcony and the Hillary step as had been planned the day before. It seems like this caused a minimum of about fours hours delay. Why did Lopsang abandon this important task and put the whole summit attempt in jeopardy? Makes no sense!
3 different people said Beidleman either fucked up or pussed out. Charlotte Fox says he was fuckin lost and had to be led back to camp. Anatoli also says this. Beck Weathers claims he ripped Nambas grip out of his hand to let her die. When the chips were down he showed his true self. He did make it out alive
@sk-wh6bx Beck seemed to think Yasuko could have been helped. She was much smaller than Sandy, and since Sandy had to be dragged everywhere anyway Yasuko would have been a lighter load. Neal directed Lene Gamelgaard to give her O2 to Princess Sandy because Lene could walk. There seemed to be a concerted effort to save Sandy. He called Beck a liability. Well, that liability wasn't sucking up other people's resources. He never complained about being left for dead. Everyone has their own version. The two most reliable narrators are Lene and Beck, IMO. Scott and Rob failed their clients. Both wasted time and resources hauling clients who got special favors to the top.
Four Times 1-2-3-4 Anatoli Boukreev went out into the blinding storm, when no one else was capable to do so, and as a result is directly responsible for the saving of three lives. Anatoli received the American Alpine Club's, David A. Sowles Memorial Award, for (in their words) his - "repeated, extraordinary efforts in searching for, then saving, the lives of three exhausted teammates trapped by a storm on the South Col..." and additionally (again- in their words) for his - "valiant attempt, at great personal risk, in going out into the *renewed storm in one last-ditch effort to save his friend and expedition leader Scott Fischer." I'm just mentioning this here, because the acts of heroism in sorties 2, 3 and 4 were not mentioned in the interview.
Listening to this again and again. Neal is a really great guy. I have a lot of respect for him and his heroism in this event is without doubt. But it's sad that he mentions several times Anatoli Bukreevs mistakes but not Scotts. And the guy who interviewed him even asked: Is Anatoli to blame for a situation on the mountain? Why do people talk a lot about Anatoli's possible mistakes, but almost nobody says anything bad about Scott? Is it because Scott died and Anatoli survived? But a year or two later Anantoli died of avalance. Why "not to talk bad about the dead" not apply to him too? Because Scott was American and Anatoli was Russian? And is it always better to blame someone who is from a different country and different culture? It sounds so unfair to me. I'm not Russian or American, but I lived in both countries for some time. So I can more or less understand cultural and historical differences. And it looks to me like Anantoli was very misunderstood in this story. So sad that he died knowing that some people blamed him for things he was not culpable of.
@@rasakaraliute8771 Yes, based on first-hand accounts, it seems Anatoli's standards and conducts were too foreign to most of his companions. If you read his book, however, you can appreciate why he made the decisions he did. His book is beautiful.
@@hughjarse4205 have read it. also "Into thin Air". It's acually interesting to compare Anatoli's point of view with Krakauer's. It would be interesting to read Leena's book to. She had her own version of events.
Absolutely true. Without Anatoli back at the tents, NOBODY would have been there to save them, yet he was and he chose to go out and save these people…without Anatoli, almost everyone out there that night dies. These guys are both absolute heroes
If Doug Hanson had made it both up AND down Everest that year, Rob Hall would have pulled off the biggest PR victory for danger tourism in history. The rags to riches story of the ordinary little guy, whose own kids' school raised the money to send him up there and the humble Kiwi climber who helped them all achieve their dreams. That is a waaaay better sell than a spoiled billionaire who could toss around money like confetti to buy big experiences or a seasoned travel writer funded by his employers accomplishing the same feat. There were a lot of guides who could get a rich person to the top of the world but Rob Hall was going to be the guy who could get Everyman up there. I believe that's why Rob Hall talked Doug into coming back and trying again. He'd got to see the inspirational possibilities in Doug succeeding the previous year. It was literally publicity you could not buy and a story no one would dare to make up. I believe that's why he talked Doug into continuing when he wanted to go back down on the fateful day. Indeed, Doug had struggled for much of the time acclimatising and Rob had resisted all suggestions that the guy really shouldn't have gone on the summit attempt at all. And just maybe it was the guilt of knowing that Doug was ultimately in that position because Rob had made him believe his dream was possible that motivated Rob to stay. Maybe that was when Rob decided he couldn't leave that poor bloody postman he'd encouraged and cajoled and coaxed into a position he was not capable of getting himself out of, lying to die all alone at the top of the world. Hubris and heroism can co-exist in a person and I do believe that in Rob Hall during that entire, ill-advised climbing season, they most certainly did.
How can we ever know if Rob coaxed Doug to keep going, or vice versa? No one was there but them to know what happened. Rob was very conservative, so I for one don’t believe in my heart that he wanted Doug to continue so late in the day. I believe he chose to stay with Doug after Doug decided by himself to keep going. But we’ll never know.
@@monyalawson3165 lmao. How about because Rob was the world famous paid guide and therefore was the one with the moral and ethical obligation to keep control of the expedition at all times and to always prioritise safety over summiting. Doug was a postman with an unrealistic dream. If Rob did take advice from Doug on the top of the world with failing light and bad weather brewing, then he is if anything MORE culpable for letting go of the reins. But that is absolutely not what happened.
I don’t believe that Rob “took advice” from Doug, but I do believe he would have chosen not to leave him. I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong…. I just have trouble with anyone stating so definitively that something happened a certain way, when we really do not know (and never will).
I have wondered about how Doug was able to be away from a essentially blue collar job for so long back to back. When I worked for the state of California, co-workers could donate 'leave time' to their fellow workers. (The state was very particular that it be called 'Leave' rather than 'Vacation' Doug may have felt extra pressure being halfway around the on co-workers 'time'.
@@allanfifield8256 Oh the Post Office was all up in it. They gave him time off. The community raised funds to support his kids while he was gone. They all milked the little guy with a big dream trope for positive PR. I'm sure many of them genuinely got caught up in the romance of it, of the hope and equality and reward for hard work Doug represented. It WAS extraordinary, what he managed to accomplish. Getting to Base Camp is beyond someone like me, probably, let alone making two summit attempts. The tragedy is had he gone home, turned back when Rob Hall's own guides and other very experienced climbers knew he should have, those accomplishments would have been dismissed as failures. And everyone forgets that Rob Hall also told Beck Weathers that he should stay where he was until Rob came back to get him. Which is the beginning of why Beck lost both hands and half his face.
Mr. Beidelman. You, and Mr. Mike Groom are real heroes! You both act like real men at the age of 30 something, when others where suposed to.. Like in a movie, when strongest and reachest people failure, and heroes stands up from backup..
One of the highlights of my life was watching the Olympics of the year mrntioned...rhank you... I am an Everest obsessed as well and just feel like crying every time i delve into this insane expedition. Neil'your intelligence and personality was what allowed for your heroic guiding efforts. Im glad Everest is in a good place in your heart... Loved this interview. Respect for Everest, Anatoli, Neal, Andy. Charlotte, Yasuko, Rob and Scott. Sandy was a product of the time in the States, fortune seeking fame. Unfortunately Scott couldnt save himself after seeing what was potentionally within reach. We are dust.
This was such an insightful add-on to Krakauer’s Into Thin Air as that book has been the bible to the ‘96 incident. Having another trustworthy account is extremely helpful and interesting. Neil always struck me as a stand up, honest guy.
have you read the climb? i read into thin air years ago and enjoyed it, but after having read the climb, i realize with certainty that i was duped and mislead...
@@jsmith5749 I have read The Climb, a challenge to Krakauer’s account of what happened by Anatoli. Keep in mind that much of what was written doesn’t have the backing that Into Thin Air does as most who were involved and are still alive admit that Krakauer did an accurate account and was truthful in the book’s documentation. Anatoli doesn’t have the same.
@@brianshickey With all due respect, I suspect that you have not read the book recently and memory of details has faded? I say that because I am just now about 90% of my way through the book so it's all fresh on my mind and I find your claim that the books lacks backing to be inaccurate. I've been very impressed by DeWalt's attention to detail. There are many personal accounts and quotes included to support the presentation of events. There are some points brought up that in my view blatantly and virtually inarguably show a lack of integrity from Krakauer. I'm not biased against Krakauer, I enjoyed Into Thin Air and I held Krakauer in high regard going into reading The Climb.
@@jsmith5749 Thanks for the feedback. I always enjoy a civil debate around topics like these. As for my recollection, you are partially correct in that it’s been about 4-5 years since I read it and as you commented, my recollection definitely isn’t as fresh as yours. Instead of comparing the two books which I think wouldn’t be fair to DeWalt or Anatoli as Krakauer’s attention to detail blows The Climb out of the water simply due to the fact that Krakauer’s trip was exclusively meant to document everything that transpired as a journalist for Outdoor magazine. His entire career as a writer was on the line had he decided to fabricate anything that happened during this fateful expedition. Ask Neil Biedleman, Beck Weathers or any of the Sherpas as to which account was more accurate. As well, if we’re to compare the ’lack of integrity’ between Jon Krakauer and Anatoli Boukreev, the mere fact that Boukreev led Fisher’s team without using supplemental oxygen in itself pales in comparison to anything Krakauer may have done (according to the Kazakhstani mountaineer). Any guide doing this would be making a selfish and dangerously irresponsible decision as the lives of others could be seriously at risk. This in itself supersedes anything that DeWalt or Boukreev claim Krakauer did that was in poor judgment. I’ll leave you with this. Into Thin Air was a factual, non fiction, journalistic account of what happened during that horrible expedition whereas The Climb was written based on a resentment towards Krakauer’s account of Boukreev’s extremely poor judgement as an Everest guide. Which book do you think would be more accurate based simply on the motivation behind each account?
@@brianshickey i appreciate the civil debate as well. i don't have a whole lot of time to dive into this topic and as you know, it's very complex. i can't address all the points you made, but you brought up anatoli's decision to not use supplemental O2 and i left long comment on this video regarding that topic, also some of the things neal in the interview, and some other things. i'll copy it below. "i'm very surprised to hear some of the things neal said about anatoli. for example, i have never heard the claim that anatoli was told to use oxygen on summit day. edit: i found a quote by scott fischer from the book The Climb saying the opposite of what neal said: "He [Scott] went on to say about Boukreev’s role on his expedition, 'Anatoli I know will not be using oxygen. Anatoli is an animal, a monster, that’s great.'" i also remember that anatoli specifically requested to have o2 available for him to use on summit day. the suggestion that anatoli climbed without o2 on summit day for pride or for being a sportsman is in my opinion out of touch with the reality. anatoli said on multiple occasions that he was open to using o2 on summit day and that he would decide the day of, depending on how he felt. he felt fine so he went without it, taking one bottle just in case. in an expedition that anatoli later led on everest, he used oxygen when he felt it was necessary. he has said, "I have no dogma about using oxygen or not." during the expedition, the mountain madness team ran into complications that stressed their oxygen supply and anatoli was thinking ahead, knowing to conserve. anatoli was right--had he climbed with o2 on summit day, there wouldn't have been enough oxygen bottles left for the mountain madness expedition members that he saved from the storm. anatoli had to literally take the oxygen bottles and masks off of sherpas who were safe in tents in order to scrounge o2 to save the dying clients, that's how bad the o2 situation was. it boggles me that huge 'details' like this somehow get swept under the rug. the reason that anatoli descended ahead of the clients was to be on stand-by to offer support from below because the team was running dangerously behind schedule. on his way down, anatoli conversed with scott fischer and they agreed about the plan. jane bromet also shares testimony that scott told her weeks before the summit attempt that he had a plan in mind where if anything went wrong on summit day, he would have anatoli rush down to bring back up O2 and hydration for support (as fate had it, this came to pass). anatoli did the calculations to realize there was a very real chance that the clients would run out of o2 on the descent. i would encourage anyone who wants the full story to read The Climb. there are endless other details that show that anatoli made every decision he could to best support the best interests of the clients. i also think neal did the best he could and i give him great credit. echoing sandy hill's sentiment, i think if anatoli had done anything 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘭𝘺, the clients that he saved would've otherwise perished. in other words, i think he navigated the situation the best he could've and got the best out of a terrible situation. here is quote from anatoli describing his decision to not use oxygen (this is just one small quote and there are other points not addressed here): "My point about this. I have big experience with oxygen. If you use oxygen, it is very dangerous when oxygen finish. I afraid about this. I felt I can work without oxygen. If I will use oxygen and oxygen will finish, it will be much more difficult. Because it is physiology. You need use oxygen full-time. I afraid about this weather because I talk with Scott Fischer about this weather. Was not sure about weather will be very good. And, my point, not climb with this date. But Rob Hall have big experience, much bigger than my experience, and-" he didn't think they should climb in the first place due to the weather, and he was concerned that if difficulties arose, he might find himself in a position of running out of oxygen. people tend to bring up the point that guides should use O2 to have full power to assist clients, forgetting the other side of the equation: "You need use oxygen full-time." - when you use oxygen, your body becomes dependent on it and running out can spell disaster."
Incredible and riveting interview. Neal is in class of his own, what a great guy. Does he hold the record of most time spent sitting on the 'top of the world' on the same day.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
What a great interview! Neal has famously never written a book about the events on Everest in May 1996 but his story is a critical one in understanding what went on. He came across as honest and self-effacing, articulate and respectful. This was a mesmerising and truly memorable interview - thanks so much.
Neal is in pretty much every single story about '96, and for good reason. He's an incredible sportsman and mountaineer, just so intelligent but inherently fun loving.
Nice bloke. Everyone else from that expedition cashed in.
This interview is his book.
Agreed
Only problem is that he previously had said that he and Anatoli were fixing ropes together. Now he’s saying he did it alone.
I have heard Neil speak before, but never to this extent. What a thoughtful, compassionate, amazing human being.
@Drew Fleck maybe from broken blood vessels and hypoxia from altitude repeatedly? I find his voice soothing.
I read "Into Thin Air" when I was 29. I'm now 54. I've followed all of the careers and stories of all involved in the 1996 disaster. Neal is a hero, as are so many others, including David Breashears, who recently died. I'm watching this video for the 3rd time, in honor of David and all of the others who were lost or forgotten. I always wanted to meet Charlotte Fox.
So wats ur take on , Into thin air" ...was it purposefully defaming Pittman? Because even beidelman is calling it creepy....or perhaps beidelman doesn't now want any controversy.....ur take on it?
Into thin air provides a pretty unbiased account about pittman for better or worse
I just read into thin air and I am obsessed with all of these stories. I'm reading the climb now and such different takes💚🗻
@@donnaleefender2272 also read Neverest
@@annamalayadevi I've read Into Thin Air many times and don't think Krakauer was overly critical towards Pittman. She was a high society starlett and her eccentric presence on the mountain did put pressure on the commercial climbing companies. But Krakauer never said that she did that intentionally, its just the nature of things. He openly admitted that his own presence as a journalist writing about commercial climbing also put additional pressure on Rob Hall and subsequently on Fisher as well because they competed for the American climbing market.
I don't know why Into Thin Air gets displayed as being anti-Pittman so often. Pittman isn't even that big of a factor in Krakauer's report. He only made two major points regarding Pittman. One is that Lopsang carried her heavy satellite equipment up to camp 4 and therefore was extremely exhausted the next day. And the other is that Lopsang short roped Pittmann on summit day for several hours which weakened him even more so that he was too tired to help roping the route and later wasn't able to help Fisher climbing down. But Krakauer didn't blame Pittman for that. The reports of Pittman and Lopsang regarding the short roping are contradictory and what Fisher had told Lopsang about it couldn't be verified. Fact is that Fisher was especially keen to get Pittman to the summit because of the pr that would come out of that.
I read Into Thin Air in middle school in the 90s. I picked it up again and read it in one day. I couldn't put it down. What a harrowing tale; as a child, I truly didn't comprehend the intensity of what happened. I can't believe I can just sit and watch an interview with Neal Beidleman just like that. Thanks for the interview!
Ya. I read it straight through and then I did it again. I was so enthralled.
@@marksauce2383right? Like, if it was fiction, I would enjoy it but would call some parts too much. That it actually happened harrows me in ways I can't explain. Beck Weathers's story is particularly absurd.
Amazing interview, he seems like a really amazing man to know.
Anatoly said he didn't use oxygen because he had been on 8000 meter peaks all year and was totally acclimatized. The following year he did use oxygen when guiding on Everest because he didnt spend the year on the mountains. So, I don't think it was ego.
Anatoly said he didn't feel he needed to be on the mountain because there were three other guides with all the clients, and it was better to have a guide rested and waiting at camp, which ended up saving everyone in the end.
Being acclimated has nothing to do with oxygen use. Oxygen use has everything to do with mental clarity .
@@msmo2060 Anatoli was acclimated and rested properly unlike the clients he was bringing up the mountain- this along with his high level of experience at altitude and his physiology gave him the necessary mental clarity. he saved many lives.
@@msmo2060Scott Fisher in an interview before the climb clearly said that Anatoli will not be using Oxygen...he had even given permission to Lene Gammelgaard to climb without any Oxygen but later changed it...she had to use Oxygen
Doesn't matter how many times I hear about this event. It fascinates me. It has excitement, horror, tragedy, love, hope and survival. Its shocking and astounding the power of nature. The majesty of the mountain. An the respect it deserves.
I like many others have wanted to hear Neals thoughts. So thank you for bringing this to us.
Hes truly a humble man. Thank you.
Yeah, me too. I see videos and listen to audio books, almost everything I can find about this tragic event. For some reason I can't stop myself. It's one so sad unbelievable story and so many people died for all the wrong reasons. Almost everything that happened was things done "wrong". Every guide line in the book ended up not used despite all involved peoples agreement and knowledge.
To be able to listen to Ned's experience is really interesting. I'm grateful he was on Everest when it all happened.
I'd have saved everyone and got the girl.. wasn't sandy pretty hot?
I feel the same way. It’s so compelling.
@@somjasa , it’s almost addictive hearing this story from Neal and others. It’s about life and death in a very raw manner.
@@Docochoco39 Yes, so true.
What a class act you are Neal. Your consideration for the memory of those lost as well as not throwing mud at anyone else's mistakes. You are definitely the definition of a hero
I am glad Neal mentioned Scott's illness. I don't know why Scott went up there after all his clients had summited.
Exactly, once all his clients had summited and were on their way down, he should have been with them.
According to the book he had diarrhea which is sooooo dehydrating. You can't "tough guy" that away.
@@cathyizzo7886Yeah, You gotta' stay away from that Yak Burgers they make! Gets you every time
@@Mt.Everest. yes. Sadly diarrhea can mean the difference between life and death in those circumstances
Suicide by everest?
I've been waiting for a detailed account by Mr. Beidleman for years. Thank you for this great interview!
Yes a lot of insight. He was "grounded" due to covid so probably had nothing else to do for a while.
What a lovely, humble, articulate, handsome guy! And smart to boot! Great interview.
@@lisafoos8976 I would if he was female!
Because of him...they didn't walk off that mountain
He’s the total package for sure. 😅
This dude is in his sixties?
What does handsome have to do with anything? 🥸
Very underrated hero of the story. Great athlete, great man.
This is such a valuable piece of the story. Early in the interview, Neal offhandedly said that he could talk for hours and hours about it. I screamed in my mind, "YES, PLEASE DO talk to us for hours and hours about it!! Clearly, that wasn't going to happen ib this interview, but I'd LOVE to hear the WHOLE ENTIRE story from beginning to end from his perspective. I wish he __would___ write a book, or just do his own RUclips video talking into the camera. What did he not have time to tell us?
What an extraordinary human. It is interesting how the most capable people are the most humble.
In his head I can guarantee he is not humble .. that's how winning is done
thats not always true....
Terrific interview with a most wonderful guide and human being. Thank God he was on the mountain that day. Saved a bunch of lives and deserves the highest acclaim.
Neal gives me big Viggo Mortensen vibes, humble but a vastly intelligent man of the world. Also, Neal shouldn't sell himself short. He's a professional, accomplished, veteran, all around sportsman. Other climbing legends are just climbers; Neal's a rare breed, a unicorn, where he can stick with legends from multiple pursuits. His time ski racing in college and everything else he does contributed to his notoriety. Everest 96 just gave his humanitarian side a chance to shine. He's one of the true heros that day, he and Mike grooms were the true leadership in both presence and action from start to finish with that whole tragedy.
Neal and Mike grooms are truly underrated both have done so much they are total badasses Mike grooms took two trys for kasanjunka after that first man in the world to summit 4 tallest with no gas then 1996 he and Neal just unbelievable Neal is so modest to me Anatolia broukas should have stayed with gas to help get clients down that was his job ,but thank goodness he took the torch after Neal and Mike made it back Charlotte fox was so good telling her tale beck weather's storytelling is a force to make you feel it all ,sand hill is also unbelievable can't help but love them all I can't get enough of the story thank you millhouse for Neal's story awesome
Viggo! That is so true, I’m feeling it
YES he immediately reminded me of Viggo too! I think the soft voice is a big part of it.
I'm from Japan but left the country in 92, so wasn't aware about Namba, until I watched Storm Over Everest. Thank you for trying your best to save her, Neal. RIP, Namba san.
RIP Yasuka Namba!
He abonded her finally. He could rescue her.
I don't think Neal gets enough credit for what he did during the 96 tragedy to help the group survive
Him and Mike Grooms were the biggest heros that night.
Unquestionably, Neal and Anatoli saved those who could be saved. Neal, Anatoli, Ed, Rob, David B.& Jon were/are truly incredible climbers. .
Neal is a hero for helping 5 people and making it down the mountain thru a storm unbelievable!
I don't think he got enough credit either
He gathered a group of 7, decided a haven route and spot for them, got actual help to come. He wasn’t even the lead. Before that he put in the missing fixed ropes, prior to the start of the climb, that a Sherpa had neglected to do.
HERO and natural leader.
Neal sensed that they were about to fall off the Kangshung face and he was right. By stopping to huddle up he saved all their lives! The following year, Anatoli found Yasko’s body on an Indonesian expedition just meters from the face, and gave her a proper burial. Of course this says just as much about Anatoli’s character as Neal’s. Truly, they’re (were) two gems of human beings.
a lot of people don't know this. when Boukreev returned to Everest the following year he also recovered some of Yasuko's personal belongings and delivered them to her widower. absolutely was a great guy.
Her husband paid big $ to get his wife's body off Everest.
@@davidschneide5422
Lots of questions varied answers. After reading many memoirs from people who were there in 96,the 1 thing agreed upon is Rob and Scott didn't follow the 2pm turn around.also Rob wouldn't leave Doug,even though he was as good as dead.I will never understand how Rob thought sacrificing himself was going to help anyone and left his pregnant wife.
@@lisaperry5999 I think I can explain it ... you have to re-read Boukreev and Krakauer's books carefully. Both books say that sometime after reaching the balcony, Doug wanted to descend. Two others from Rob's group had already decided to descend, as well. Rob was following-up at the rear of the group. When Doug had descended to Rob a conversation ensued and, for whatever reason, Doug changed his mind and continued on with the ascent! Everything changes for the worse at that precise moment, unfortunately, IMO. Rob had talked him out of the descent. To have abandoned Doug would have destroyed Rob's sterling reputation. From that moment on, Rob could not possibly abandon Doug. Had he simply allowed Doug to descend, unfortunately, Rob and several others would likely still be alive. Of course Doug wouldn't have made it back solo. One question worth asking is was there a Sherpa remaining to shepherd him back to the South Col?
Hmm. Beck Weathers tells a different story. On his talk Beck tells of Neal pulling Yasuko's hand off his arm and leaving her. Either way I'd rather have been up there with someone who wouldn't leave their client like Rob Hall.
One of the best podcasts I have ever heard GUYS please get guests like this more please please! This is BEYOND epic!
Thanks Maestro!
@Tony Terry What kind of scam are you pushing? Plus why are you talking about it here in this topic?
Excellent interviewer. No babbling, no interrupting. Very professional.
Anatoli Bouchareev saved 3 lives while no one would go out in the freeze, which included Biedelman who was in a sleeping bag with teeth chattering. FU Biedelman. Anatoli is the hero of this story. Not u.
@@sk-wh6bxhe mentions that he saved people. He also mentioned that Anatoli was in his tent while everyone was stuck in the storm because he got cold and left early because he chose not to use supplemental oxygen.
@@sk-wh6bxdid you even listen to his story? Beidleman was the one out in the storm tending to not only his clients but dragging Yaduko as well, while Boukreev was sleeping in his sleepingbag. He made his way into camp by being watchful, watching when the storm calmed and seeing the stars and the upper part of the mountain. He then guided Gammelaard, Groom, Schoening and the 2 sherpas back to the tents where he woke up Boukreev and told him there were still people on the south col. Without Beidleman, Boukreev would not even hve know there were people in trouble. Neal had just spend 27hours outside and in a storm with temp to minis 70, and you blame him for not going back out with Boukreev? Where was Boukreev when Neal was dragging Pittman off the mountain? Where was Boukreev when he was dragging Yasuko of the mountain?
The audacity of blaming Neal being in his sleeping bag is just mindblowing
Blown away. Pittman (Aka Sandy Hill) just recently gave her rendition on some tiny channel that I will not promote . This came up next in YT suggested. Best medicine to hear Neal’s 1st hand honest, humble and detailed account for the first time. It happened. It’s not going away. It just is. Thank you Neal for doing this interview. 🙏🏼
I was secretly hoping they’d somehow stretch this into a part 2. Amazing perspective and a moving story from a very humble guy. Thank you for sharing (:
The biggest difference between Neal and Anatoli is cultural. Neal is american, Anatoli - russian and both had very distictive views to same things. Russian mounteneering school is harsh. In 1996 for a russian climber to understand basics of american commercial climbing was kinda impossible. You can feel it in Anatolis book. He was certain - everyone should climb Everest by himself. No pampering, no kindergarten, or pushing someone up the mountain for fame. You paid money, ok we will help you with a trip, camp, grear, aclimatization, fixing ropes, giving instructions. But you need to climb and get down by your own. You can feel frustration in Anatolis book, he didn't understand how (and why) all theese people are here and want to climb Everest. He didn't speak english well, so he was more connected to the sherpas as to the clients, to other gides and to Scott. He needed money badly, that's why he came as a guide with Scott. He was very superior as an alpinist, better as Rob or Scott and it was not his jam to be a guide. (It's kinda like a great surgeon, who doesn't have money and instead of working as a main doctor, is working as an asistant in surgery and only gives tools then mandatory.) He tried several times to talk to Scott about problems in the group as he have seen it, but Scott didn't listen. So seems like he just caved in and did only technical job: fixed ropes, made camps with sherpas. He was disconected from others mentally and saw himself more as a technical support, but not the one who should take care about people. Neal on the other hand is pure american guy from Aspen. Educated, polite, nice and helpfull as every good american guy next door would be. He was more connected with clients, kinda part of the gang. But he seems alsonot connected with Scott. Scott behavour is still big mistery, he seemed really off. Like it wasn't his expedition:( maybe he was really sick and wanted to hide it or it was some other mystery. So it's a great thing Neal was a great american guy who saw as his responsibility to get all people down. Actually it turned out gut that Anantoli was a crazy russian guy, who wasn't perfect on a daily basis, but was crazy brave in critical circumstances. I'm not sure if any nice american guy would left a safe tent and went into deadly danger to save someone. It wasn't reasonable what Anatoli did to save others. You need to be desperate russian for it. So at the end they both did a great job and both are pure heroes. Both made mistakes too, as anyone that day on the mountain did. But basically it was a broken rule "to turn back after two pm" and later a strom reallly to blame. In a good weather all of them would made to the camp even late at night. And someone could come to help Scott. Maybe Rob Hall could come down or even manage to get Doug Hansen with, if the weather was ok. Storm messed up and people did the best they could.
Good comment
Terrific insights and background!
Great post. If we look the entire picture its just a series of unfortunate events. Long ago I thought Anatoli was partially at fault but he was climbing with no oxygen and that obviously was okay with Scott. Clearly someone climbing without o2 will not be able to support the clients 100 percent. The fact that the team leaders were climbing with the clients makes it really hard for them to make clear decisions when needed. Most of the climbers were not wearing communication gear so that made it even worse. One thing that I know very little about is what was happening with the base camp managers when the 2pm turnaround was not being followed. I know Rob had coms gear and the conversations they had with him long after 2pm. There is video with Rob discussing how he might become unpopular because of decisions he might have to make during the climb but it doesn't seem like he made any except for staying with Doug and dying with him. I think a lot of changes occurred to how they manage the mountain after this event but in the end its up to the individual to come down. Not for someone to come up and get you.
You really really bring up a great point. I was thinking, after absorbing all of this over time, why would Rob and Scott break their own rules, only to die? And in that, everything is explained. Hence, here we are talking about them almost 30 years later.
Its always seemed very clear that without Anatoli’s action to go down unannounced, had he not been at the tents, and had he not gone back out to save those people, THEY ALL DIE. Of course Anatoli and Neal are both heroes
Watched this for the 3rd time. This is just beyond. I think this will be my favorite podcast episode ever on youtube. Guys please bring him in again. Discuss Everest mystique even more, the gear, what does it take etc etc. This is unreal!
Hell yeah, Maestro! I believe he’d be the one to tell it properly as well as motivating younger climbers.
@@Docochoco39 Ty bro yes exactly!:))) too good!
Love Neal Beidleman. Fascinating individual. An American hero. Great interview.
I think he was a huge hero of Everest ‘96. He stepped up, made great decisions, saved people. Hail him!
disagree with you. He carried Yasuko Numba and finally abandoned her. He is saying: We leave main group, because he should to go to the camp and call the rescue. Neal just said to Anatoli where are other clients.
This is an amazing interview. That last anecdote about him being in the band on Andy's return from Innsbruck in '76 gave me goosebumps! Such wonderful serendipity.
Neal is so humble, and thoughtful. When commenting on the divisive topics Andy brought up, for example Anatoli not using oxygen, not trying to blame anyone, only explaining their decision based on their background, and trying to give the most respect to them by trying to do his best to express their point of view as he understood it, even though he himself could never completely understand it. I am absolutely floored by his complete respect for his fellow climbers on that day. It's too bad people like Neal aren't the leaders of our society.
What a hero and an inspiration 🙏🏻❤️
Terrific interview! I’ve always mostly believed Krakauer’s take on the disaster. I only about 50% believed the account in “The Climb” (remember, this book wasn’t written by Anatoli but by an American names Dewalt and it is mostly a 3rd-hand account-Anatoli to a translator, translator to Dewalt, Dewalt in the book) But I have always believed Neal 100%. This wasn’t his career, he was friends with both group leaders, and per everyone involved, made no major mistakes that contributed to the deaths. So he has no reason to lie. I’m so glad that I found this and glad to see he’s doing well ❤️
Anatoly's book was written by a smitten fan-boy. RIP.
@@allanfifield8256 I am currently working my way through "The Climb" audiobook. This far, I've got to agree. The author's disdain for Krauker is palpable.
@@Clint52279Exactly. Krakauer wrote his book as a journalist. He was on the Mount Everest as a journalist.
Anatoli (DeWalt) wrote his book as an angry response to Krakauers book.
I've read both books and I am inclined to believe Krakauer more.
I am not familiar with the Climb. However I can see how many of the events were viewed differently by the people who experienced it. It was traumatic for each individual. So thus each story will be slightly different. For example in John's book Anatoli went back to help others. Was he a perfect guide? According to John he went way ahead. Did he help when things went south, again according to John, Yes. When people experience trauma it is through the lens of their emotions at the time. I have been listening, reading accounts from many from this disaster. I have listened to Beck (sp?) I listened to an account by another gentleman though for the life of me I can't remember his name. Doug maybe? Anyway what a tragic tale.
I think I met Neal when he was with Rob and Scott with Larry Tudor at Tekoa/Spokane. It was June 1990 and we were all at Larry Strom's place. Scott looked right at me and told me to look for their Everest feature in Life magazine 6 weeks later.
That was an amazing weekend where I and others sat quietly listening to them talk. All we could do was listen.
Listening to this brought back a lot more of those memories. I am amazed how respectful Neal is in telling the story. Respectful.
Diane's fish was delicious, with all that lemon on it!
It seems like a lot of problems he describes with guided expeditions could be ameliorated if the companies adopted a true mountaineering motto: rather than "We will get you to the top", it should be, "We will get you back alive. You will experience what the mountain permits." That is how all living alpinists approach climbing.
One discrepancy: Beidleman didn't bring Sandy Pittman and Charlotte Fox into camp. They couldn't follow him from the impromptu huddle. He told Anatoli Bourkreev where they were; Bourkreev then risked his life on two separate trips to physically drag them in succession into camp. Of course, Beidleman might aver that such heroism wouldn't have been necessary if Bourkreev had been on oxygen and did his job by staying with the group.
Also, it is interesting the effort he puts into not saying anything bad about Sandy Pittman, who clearly caused a cascade of worsening consequences with her selfishness. I wonder if she is litigious.
To be truthful, I needed to say that Neal didn't come alone to the camp, he came with Lene Gammelgaard (a Danish climber, client) and Klev Schoening (an American ski racer, client). In Anatoli Bukreev's book, it is written that Lene says it was Klev who was the first to figure out where the camp was (when they got lost on South Cole) and was very certain about it. So all the people (3) who could walk at that stage went that direction (Tim Madsen stayed with Charlotte and Sandy to help them survive until help came). Lene and Klev gave most of the information to Anatoli. Neal was totally exhausted. He did a terrific job of taking people down and trying to keep them as safe as possible in the circumstances. He offered to make a dog pale and wait until the storm comes down. It saved their lives. But then he reached Camp 4, he wasn't able to take the cats off the boots and barely spoke, so Anatoli took his cats off (cats could damage the tent, so they should be taken off before going in) and Anantoli mostly spoke to Lene and Klev. Anatoli went out three times. At first he didn't find people, at second he brougth Charlotte, at third - Sandy Pitman and Tim came on his own with them. Lenee and Klev gave perfect directions. They need credit for it. And Tim could have save himself, not to stay with barely alive women. As Lenee said he was able to walk but have chosen to stay. He didn't abandon them. Big props for him to. Acually I don't see any covard that night at the mountain, people did the best they could. It's hard to blame anyone who didn't came to help Anatoli. His resque mission was pure suicide. And I'm very pissed then people blame Anatoli for climbing without oxygen and coming down before clients. Of couse if he was a wizard and could predict the future - he is to blame, but otherwise - in no way. Who blames him doesn't know much about him.
But their oxygen ran out by the time they were in trouble, so if Boukreev went up on oxygen and stayed with them he would have been in just as much trouble as they were. He did carry a canister with him and gave it to Neal, who started to have trouble with his before the storm even hit.
@@BabyPrincess687 people who blame Bukreev often mention that he needed to go down quickly because he was climbing without oxygen. But these people forget a fact that Bukreev stayed at the top for 1,5 hours and waited for someone to come. He wasn't in the hurry. Actually nobody should stay at the top for long. It's recomended to stay for 15 min: take some photos, enjoy a moment and go down as quick as you can. With or without oxygen - your body is dying slowly in death zone. So it's wise not to waste time in that place. Anatoly was an alpinist who climbed without oxygen, he always said it's better for him because with proper aclimatization he feels good and dosn't need to worry about runnig out of it. He always said that climbing with oxygen and later stoping using it made him feel much worse as not to use at all. Neal said in this interview it was some part of pride in it also. Maybe... he was at the scene and knew Anatoli personal, of course should know better as anyone who just studied this tragedy after from different sources of information. And these sources sometimes contradict one another. So is hard so say, how it was for real. But to blame Anatoli is not fair. People make sound like he is the only one to blame in this tragedy. Acually you can blame all guides, all clients and all sherpas if you want. Every one did or didn't do something that in perspective turned out to be a mistake or even a misconduct. But I choose not to blame anyone (even it's hard for me in my mind not to blame Scott (RIP), because he was the boss and from him in a huge part depended all rules and roles in his expedition). But anyway... even with all mistakes, chaotic summit and decend all clients would reached the camp 4 if the weahter didn't change. So really is a storm to blame. They run out of oxygen, it was hell a storm and they still managed to go down and get lost only because they could't see the camp 4. If they could see it, they all would come into the camp by themselves. Only one who from the "Mountain madness" team would be in real trouble with good weather was Scott, because he was in trouble long time before the storm hit.
@@rasakaraliute8771 I completely agree with you on every single point you make in your 2 replies.
I understand that she is.
This was amazing, what a human being, a hero
Thank you guys so much for this great interview. I enjoyed every moment. Such a nice atmosphere. Mr. Beidleman is a kind of hero to me. He didn't write a book or tried to make this event work for him.
A lot of greetings from Germany 🇩🇪❣️
Great job by all 3 of you! I think Andy let Neal tell most of the story with minimal interruptions even more so than usual, I think that speaks to the gravity of the story and his accomplishments.
Now and again you come across people who embrace the concept of how short life is..Neal understands this at an extraordinary level...his humility is on another level too...Withers still has to be the shining light of this expedition.
Well done Neal Beidleman. Your ethics and strength were exemplary in an unimaginably difficult situation. So sorry so much went wrong around you. And I can understand your reasons for going back. Your experience really has taught lessons to many people. May we all strive to cope and lead as well as Neil Beidleman did at Everest.
Neal Beidleman is just a superior human being. He went into one of the most dangerous environments for humans and seemed to thrive in it. He managed not only to get through it but saved a number of people by practically carrying them on his back. If that team had five Neil's on it the whole expedition would have likely made it back trouble free. He did all of this with great humility and class. I hope to be half the man he is someday.
I have read this book several times. I am amazed at the sheer determination of the people depicted. It is nice to hear individual stories. I am most amazed by Beck Weathers. How that man survived was in my opinion determination and some help from above.
David Breashears (according to many reports) helped so much. I wonder if he had not been filming during that time if things would have been worse. I feel sadness for the Sherpa guides. I feel as if they don't get a lot of credit. However John does mention them a lot in his book.
I have seen so many documentaries on this event, I was really moved by this story. Thank you for doing this interview, it was really great to hear his part of the story.
I hope Neal writes a book about his life at some stage. Super interesting and apparently nice guy. Thanks for the upload!
hard to believe this guy is 60 years old here in this interview
Wow. I wasn’t doing the math so I was thinking 40. Dang
Great interview. I'm impressed Neal went back to climb Everest after the 96 disaster.
I have a huge crush on Neal! Such a cool, thoughtful guy💜
Don't.
it s totally not worth it
@birgitmelchior8248 why not?
But in spite of the fact that Anatoli didn't use oxygen mask, he saved 3 people, that's why nobody from the clients died, but for Scott himself. Anatoli did his best for the clients. The rest who died were from Rob's company and Anatoli wasn't responsible for them. If Anatoli kept staying on the summit, would he be able, exhausted, to save people later? He would also be kepted by bad weather like everybody, he wouldn't have strength to save anybody. But he had a chance to have a rest. Why should he had stayed on the summit together with two other guieds (he didn't know about Scott's bad condition). Secondly, there was no logical need for Scott to go up when all clients were already decending. Scott didn't think about his client's safety at that time, he only thought about his reputation, that's all. Scott is a good man and strong alpinist but he had made a fatal mistake that costed his life and could cost life of his clients.
Imagine looking "DOWN" and you see huge storm clouds coming up toward you, that is crazy
This interview turned from great to absolutely gripping.
Amazing story, thanks so much for sharing Neal. Kudos to Andy for interviewing so well.
It's funny how people on this comment judging Neal and Anatoli and everyone in that tragedy, while they're just chilling in their nice comfy house having no idea what exactly happened in that expedition.
However amazing interview, Neal is very articulate, considerate, humble
Neal Beidlemen please begin a career as a reader! I love his storytelling or narrative style and he speaks so clearly about the mountains and candidly about his nearer to death experiences. I saw him tell his story on the PBS special about the events on Everest in 96 and thought he was a standout. I was captivated listening to him!He seems like a Californian to me.
Great podcast, I could have listened for another hour to Neal's stories. However, I took issue with the host's question on whether Anatoli's decision to climb without oxygen may have cost people's lives. Except for Scott Fisher, who was responsible for himself, all of the Mountain Madness members survived. Maybe that was for dramatic effect, but the facts do not support that insinuation. Neal even said that the leaders and co-leaders are all culpable; one of the few to have the courage to say that. Taking inexperienced people up mount Everest, deciding to short-rope others, not having ropes in place, ignoring a storm that's been on other's radar for 5-7 days, ignoring the clock and waisting hours up on the mountain because ropes were not fixed, etc.. But somehow, people take issue that Anatoli climbed without oxygen. By the way, he had made ascents to 10 of the 8,000+ peaks without supplemental oxygen, and twice on Everest before 1996. He was able to do it, and it wasn't about proving in 1996 that he could do it.
Neal said he and Anatoli fixed ropes, and that Anatoli had a bottle of oxygen which he gave to Neal. Later Anatoli left, and Neal said he waited about 2 hours for clients, while trying to use as little oxygen as possible. Remember, he had Anatoli's bottle as well. What would have happened had Anatoli stayed there and used his oxygen? They would have very likely run out of oxygen before the clients reached the top, or soon after. No one had enough oxygen for how long the trip lasted. Also, on the way back, Neal mentioned how they all ran out of oxygen and took whatever bottles were available on South Summit. What if Anatoli was there as well, would they have had sufficient bottles for all? Would Neal have been okay without Anatoli's bottle of oxygen? What exactly could Anatoli have done extra had he been there with 10 extra bottles of oxygen? Fly them all to the camp? He would have been caught in the storm, just like the others. Anatoli leaving the top was actually providential for the Mountain Madness team. Because he gave his oxygen bottle to Neal, ensured Neal could stay longer at the top and be okay on the descent. Because he left earlier, meant he was the only one able, and willing, to go out and rescue three people.
I’ve always felt that without Anatoli back at the tents, they almost ALL DIE out there
Anatoli usually climbed w/out oxygen didn’t he?
I think it’s not about “what ifs”… the possibilities are endless and there’s no way of knowing. The point is, imaging paying 60k and your guide goes down before you?
Well said. I will never understand how Boukreev is blamed for the deaths of people not on his team. I guess because Rob Hall had a warm personality and Boukreev was more direct and “cold” it’s easier for people to blame Boukreev when as much as Rob was for all accounts a great guy, he made some bad calls that day that cost his clients their lives. None of that is on Boukreev, who rescued all of his team members who needed help in the storm.
@@ferreira8649yeah that piece is understandable for people to take issue with, but leaping from that to blaming him for the deaths of people not even part of his group bc of decisions their leader made is the part that gets me.
Wow, with Neil’s refusal to even say Sandy Pittman‘s name is just a testament as to how fiercely she has come after these people and threatened to sue them if they speak about her. She really isn’t a very good or nice person.
She doesn't come off as the most pleasant in anyone's account of the 1996 incident but since the media and public attention around her has been so exaggeratedly negative, I'm guessing it was affecting her career and her family's well-being. I understand how that would lead her to suing.
The day I smoked my first cigarette was the day I'd never be on Neil's fitness level and skill. Takes great willpower, humility and inner strength to reach goals Neil has surpassed. A real American hero.
Na, smoking 🚬 is going to help acclimatize you to low oxygen better than the nonsmokers 😮
you should quit now if you havent already. i was a heavy smoker and i quit and took up exercise instead. my oxygen saturation levels are now higher than most non smokers
Great interview! Neal was a hero that day and one of the few people who made no major mistakes.
He abonded Yasuko and she dead. What a hero.
@@Lawson8489 100% false
I don't think a single man is to blame, but the - sadly - wrong or ill fitted decisions of some helped the desaster to unfold.
I understand, empathically, why Rob convinced Doug to keep ascending (both Jon and Anatoli explain in their books that Doug was about to descend, talked with Rob and then continued ascending - what was spoken between those two will never be known). Rob felt sorry and bad for Doug to "fail" again.
But Rob himself broke his own strict rule that 2 pm was the very latest descending time, no matter if you've reached the summit or not.
If they had followed that rule, Doug and Rob and Andy might have had a chance and would still be alive today.
Also him (Rob) telling Beck to wait for him instead of descending as soon as others came by, was also a gravely misjudgment. Beck had many opportunities to descend with other climbers but stayed were he was because of his promise to Rob. Since Rob had convinced Doug to keep ascending, he no longer was able to descend in time by himself. He had now bound his fate to that of Doug and even though the initial decision to let him ascend was wrong to begin with, I admire Rob for staying with Doug till the end.
However, that led to Beck's near death experience and his severe injuries. If he had descended earlier with the other climbers, he wouldn't have been part of the group getting lost close to Camp 4 and maybe there would have been capacities to save Yasuko, too.
Makalu (the Taiwanese climber) ascended on May 10th, even though he had agreed not to. More people on the summit means more traffic jam and more people in need of rescue. Maybe Scott Fischer could have been saved if not for Makalu lying in his close proximity and being saved first.
Scott himself overestimated his physical abilities during that climbing season and was definitely not in the shape to summit that day. He did, nevertheless, and also overstayed his welcome on the summit. I understand his desire to get on top, for business purposes, however, he was too weak during that time and his ambitions made him blind and a poor judge regarding his own capabilities.
We will also never know what was agreed on between Scott, Sandy and Lopsang regarding the fact that Lopsang practically carried Sandy up the summit, using up most of his strength, not finishing the fixing ropes, etc, since Scott and later Lopsang died (and Lopsang gave different statements regarding that topic before his death) and Sandy claimed that she never agreed on being pulled up. I personally believe that this was an inofficial plan between these three to get Sandy up. She was one of the most ill fitted for the ascend (not saying she was a bad athlete or climber in general, but for that task, she was not ready) in these groups, but who knows if she promised money or good publicity to Scott if she made it up that hill.
Lopsang being weakened by the task of getting her up, was not able to aid Scott on the way down. Also him not fixing the ropes led to the traffic jam at the Hillary Step which led to a delay in the ascend and descend of many climbers.
Sandy slowed her descending group down and used up way too much oxygen, also of others.
As Jon himself said, him failing to see that Andy was in severe danger and struggling with HACE and/or HAPE, hence reacting irrationally, contributed to the desaster. I don't blame Jon in any way, especially not for mistaking Adams for Andy and giving false information about Andys whereabouts (Andys family and his partner gave him a lot of grief for that) - regardless, Andy would have been dead anyway. If he died on the way up to help Rob and Doug or if he had fallen down the grate, as Jon initially thought - the outcome would have been the same.
Jon tries to understand in his book why he failed to recognise Andys condition and I think his explanation sounds quite vaild to me. Jon was a client, Andy a guide. Jon was also at his limits and struggling with lack of oxygen. But yes, if he had recognised the bad shape Andy was in, maybe he could have helped him down. But it's not to forget that Mike Groom, a guide, was also with Jon and Andy at the time and also failed to see what was going on with Andy.
Andy being severely affected by HACE and/or HAPE also led to the misunderstanding concerning the full oxygen tanks. Andy claimed vehemently that the reserve tanks were empty, leading Rob to stay with Doug instead of descending to catch some oxygen tanks himself. By the time the misunderstanding was out of the way, Doug was already lost (literally) and Rob too weak to go for himself.
However, the fact that Andy went up again, trying to help Rob and Doug, even in his catastrophic own state, is something admirably. He acted heroically, and paid with his life.
Anatoli did some kind of solo trip, going his own speed, not waiting for clients, not using oxygen. I personally think that Jon's criticism is valid regardless. Many guides agreed that using additional oxygen while being a guide should be mandatory, since you are not only responsible for yourself, but your clients too. Anatoli risked a lot of his capabilities when doing his solo maneuver. Obviously he had no other choice than to descend quickly after reaching the summit, since the risk of developing HACE, HAPE, exposure, hypothermia and other physical weaknesses increase immensely without any additional oxygen.
It will never be fully cleared if Scott agreed with Anatoli to go without oxygen and be ready at Camp 4 for any inconvenience that my occur. Scott died and Anatoli obviously made this claim. Neil himself said he never heard of such a plan and Jane Bromet also said that Scott was dissatisfied with Anatolis unsocial behaviour and solo maneuvers before the summit.
If he das used additional oxygen, maybe he would have been able to help Scott to descend, or maybe he would have been able to help others, like the group around Yasuko and Beck, before they got lost in the storm.
That doesn't diminish the fact that him going out late at night during the storm to rescue some of the lost climbers was an heroic and incredible act of strength. What he did was outright admirable and he definitely saved some lives that night.
However, maybe some of these lives wouldn't have been in danger to begin with, if he had acted more as a guide and less than a soloist.
Many decisions that day, small and not so small, led to the tragic outcome of this day. I do believe that all had the best intentions and nobody could foresee the storm that made everything a hundred times more difficult.
There are also many "ifs". If Rob, if Scott, if... Of course we will never know what would have been, "if" these people had made different decision. It will always remain a speculation.
I wish all of them to rest in peace.
I really enjoy this interview. I never get tired of listening to it. I wish he would have a new one.
Many mistakes have been made that led to the disaster of the 1996 expedition. But probably the biggest one was not to follow Rob Hall golden rule to turn around at 2pm. That could have saved most climbers lifes.
Good interview, thank you.
Not most. All of them!
I think the mistake is not quite about missing the turn around time. The mistake was making a business decision, and that means attempting to get the "clients" get their money's worth of experiencing Everest. So they didn't have the heart to tell people to go back down, which would mean some would not summit at all, having gotten so close.
@@DaoNguyen-nx5fq It was even worse. There was nobody who could tell them. The guides, Anatoli and Neal were far ahead, - fixing ropes where the sherpas didn't. They summited alone before clients and waited for hours. It seems like Neal and Anatoli had no permission to tell anybody to abandon the summit and get down. Anatoli went down, passed the group of clients by, and didn't say anything. Neal stayed on the summit and waited for clients to come, even though it was very late and he needed to go down and tell the clients to do the same. But seems he didn't have that permission either. So Scott should have toldit, but Scott was even more late and not with the clients. As I understand it, professionals at that time did not always follow rules and made different accends, sometimes alone, sometimes late at night, and most of the time they managed to come back to camp 4, because they were pros (alpinists, sportsmen, and very high-profile mountaineers). And as commercial climbing began, it seems like they underestimated the danger that comes with people who are clients. Later, rules on the mountain changed a lot, and today thousands of clients come to Everest, and it's very clear - you should turn around at 2 PM, if you're not a pro, but in 1996 it wasn't that obvious.
Hanson was never going to listen being that this was his second chance that Rob gave him on the cheap- the guy was a mail worker, he may not have another opportunity. So he wasnt going to listen, and Rob should have left his ass
@@kch7051 if you read some of the comments on this thread, apparently couple people who was there said Doug was ready to decent without summiting but Rob had told him he will make sure Doug make it to the top. Thus Doug struggled on and by the time Rob realized that Doug just can’t cut it, it was too late. Either Rob leaves Doug on the mountain by himself and take on a huge reputation damage or he will somehow get Doug down. At the end of the day, it appears that reputation trump common sense. My guess is at that altitude, smart decision making is hard to come by.
This was a fantastic interview. Neal seems like such a humble and down to earth guy.
What a fantastic interview. He is a class act and told his story in a way what was compassionate but riveting.
My fav person on this planet..living the life on a top of everything, got there had helped others, even stayed 1h:45min on summit waiting..amazing life you have sir adrenalin, God bless and have a blast 💪💪
I'm saddened to see that Neal has flip-flopped and thrown Anatoli under the bus. Neal is quoted as saying, in a tape-recorded debriefing that was held on May 15, 1996, five days after the tragic day on Everest: "I knew Anatoli had gone down. I had no problem with that. I knew that it would have been nice for him to stay, but at the same time it wouldn’t have necessarily facilitated our descent any better. I wasn’t aware of his instructions to go down immediately from Scott, but, after hearing that, I support that. I think that’s a very good idea, and in fact, had he not gone down, his efforts at the bottom collecting people wouldn’t have been possible." Source: The Climb
Anatoli descending ahead of the clients was an agreed upon plan, a plan that was agreed upon on summit day when Scott Fischer (the expedition leader) and Anatoli talked that day, and a plan that Scott had in mind well before summit day, which is confirmed by Jane Bromet's testimony that Scott had told her about this plan in advance. One day the record will be set straight. Anatoli was nothing less than a hero on that day.
I totally agree. And previously Beidleman has said that he and Anatoli were fixing rope together, after Lop So bailed. Here, Biedleman is saying,he was doing it alone. At the end of the day, it was a blessing that Anatoli had left early. They didn’t need two guides sitting on the top doing nothing. Otherwise three more people would be dead that Anatoli had ended up saving because he had the strength after he rested. That said, Anatoli decision not to use oxygen was a bad one.
Anatoli was stubborn and not fulfilling his duties as a guide for WEEKS before the summit. Scott, an affable guy by everyone’s standards, had taken to complaining to close friends in the groups about Anatoli’s unwillingness to do his job that he was paid $25,000 for (while the other guides made around $10,000 and the sherpas $2,000). Anatoli wanted to appease his toxic masculinity and summit without oxygen. He was too cold to stay up there, so he descended. There was no set plan; what Scott discussed with Bromet was simply brainstorming, and it happened 3 weeks before the summit. The other guide-Neal in this video-confirmed there was never any plan, and that Anatoli and Scott hadn’t spoken below the summit. Anatoli’s selfishness was likely a small contributing factor to the avalanche of issues that day. Yes, he was heroic and brave later. But he was also obstinate and self-serving earlier. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive.
So awesome man...
Anatoli did save his team ...and his o2 cannister went to you and or someone on your team.
For those only interested in the 1996 story details, skip to 33:33.
Thank you. Saved my time
simply ......a great interveiw
Such a humble and understated guy. Great interview.
I enjoyed this interview.. Glad to hear Neal’s recollection and the interviewers are very professional.👍
This would have been the best person to write the book, and was the only one that didn't.
Neil you are so handsome. AND supersmart? What a life.
It was too obvious how this podcast guy was trying to make Neal say negative things about Anatoli. This thing about Anatoli's ego... Just bad taste that. Who are you even to have an opinion? Do you know anything about the mountains? Or did you save anyone in your lifetime? The worst of the American culture is exactly that. But Neal is a classy act. Yes, there are cultural differences. Neal does not get where Anatoli was coming from. As Anatoli did not get all this catering to client's every whim thing. But still Neal refrains from harsh judgment.
Also his trying to explaining how he could not go back out... Anyone with any sense understands it was an impossible thing to do. It was impossible even for Anatoli, who rested at the camp, but he was just a crazy person with superhuman abilities. I believe 100% that both Neal and Anatoli did everything they could and more. They are both real heroes.
Anatoli didn’t need to “get” catering to clients’ whims. He was paid $25,000 to do a job, and he dropped the ball many times, according to Scott, Jon, Neal, Michael, and many more.
Neal is absolutely amazing. In addition to summiting Mt. Everest, he's also involved in secret scientific endeavors. 👍👍
You are exceptional at interviews! You don't interrupt, you let your guests talk and they are so comfortable with you. Subscribed!
Anotolli said in an interview that using oxygen de-climitises the body. Its why he refused it.... Great interview!
One thing not mentioned here, but fresh in my mind from just having re-read Into Thin Air, was an additional complication. There were extra bottles of oxygen which possibly could have been retrieved, not far from where Hall was. But Andy Harris, who was delirious from oxygen deprivation kept radioing there were no available oxygen bottles. Anyway just thought I would throw that into the mix.
What a brave man, I could not be more impressed. There are times in his retelling where he crosses his arms when talking about how cold it was that night.
Utmost respect for Neal. I would definitely pay to see him in person articulating his Everest climbs. Just such a special person.
It's so unimaginable and emotional to find your old and long time friend body still lying there everytime you climb.
I enjoy Neil’s interviews. He is intelligent, gracious, and so experienced. I also love his voice. Thank you Neil for being level headed and talented as a guide and a mountaineer. You saved their lives.
Thank you this was a great interview. I find him and this story so compelling. He’s amazing.
What does he mean by saying some things Boukreev did were made up? If so, it probably wasn't Anatoli but Krakauer. Boukreev was used to climbing without oxygen and it's a bit unfair to blame him for any death, solely. On that expedition many subpar things happened and a number of critical decisions were made. I prefer to remember Boukreev as the one who saved lives instead of being responsible for people who unfortunately died.
I believe he means Anatoli wasn’t supposed to climb without O2 and he wasn’t supposed to go down before the clients. But because he did so, he was able to save two people and nobody from their expedition lost their lives. So it was convenient for Anatoli to say he went down to camp 4 to get some rest so he’d be ready to help if anyone needed.
In other words, his mistake ended up saving two lives and he was kinda like “yeah that wasn’t a mistake, it was my plan all along”.
Don’t get me wrong, I have no doubt in my mind Jon Krakauer lied (a lot) in his book.
He is saying Anatoli's book has some embellishments.
Anatoli, through both his ghost writer and in several interviews, straight up changed his story several times. He lied. Get over it.
Great talk. Cleared things up for me. In regards to the turn around time.
Such an excellent interview…a true hero. I wonder sometimes what would have happened had the ropes been set at the balcony and the Hillary step as had been planned the day before. It seems like this caused a minimum of about fours hours delay. Why did Lopsang abandon this important task and put the whole summit attempt in jeopardy? Makes no sense!
Great interview, I’ve listened to this many times at work
This interview was Beautiful.... Neil is the person we all should be.
I like me
Not everthing is gold, that sparkles. We should all just be ourselves
Neal is a real hero of mine for risking his life to help others. I'd always survive with neal by my side.
3 different people said Beidleman either fucked up or pussed out. Charlotte Fox says he was fuckin lost and had to be led back to camp. Anatoli also says this. Beck Weathers claims he ripped Nambas grip out of his hand to let her die. When the chips were down he showed his true self. He did make it out alive
@@sk-wh6bxDo you have titles or sources, I would like to read up on this.
@sk-wh6bx Beck seemed to think Yasuko could have been helped. She was much smaller than Sandy, and since Sandy had to be dragged everywhere anyway Yasuko would have been a lighter load.
Neal directed Lene Gamelgaard to give her O2 to Princess Sandy because Lene could walk. There seemed to be a concerted effort to save Sandy. He called Beck a liability. Well, that liability wasn't sucking up other people's resources. He never complained about being left for dead.
Everyone has their own version. The two most reliable narrators are Lene and Beck, IMO. Scott and Rob failed their clients. Both wasted time and resources hauling clients who got special favors to the top.
Guys you are just something else! Have started to listen to this... I am so so so intrigued you wouldn't believe!
Powerful. Well done.
Four Times 1-2-3-4 Anatoli Boukreev went out into the blinding storm, when no one else was capable to do so, and as a result is directly responsible for the saving of three lives. Anatoli received the American Alpine Club's, David A. Sowles Memorial Award, for (in their words) his
- "repeated, extraordinary efforts in searching for, then saving, the lives of three exhausted teammates trapped by a storm on the South Col..." and additionally (again- in their words) for his
- "valiant attempt, at great personal risk, in going out into the *renewed storm in one last-ditch effort to save his friend and expedition leader Scott Fischer."
I'm just mentioning this here, because the acts of heroism in sorties 2, 3 and 4 were not mentioned in the interview.
100% yes. Thanks for noting this. Anatoli was treated poorly in this interview.
Listening to this again and again. Neal is a really great guy. I have a lot of respect for him and his heroism in this event is without doubt. But it's sad that he mentions several times Anatoli Bukreevs mistakes but not Scotts. And the guy who interviewed him even asked: Is Anatoli to blame for a situation on the mountain? Why do people talk a lot about Anatoli's possible mistakes, but almost nobody says anything bad about Scott? Is it because Scott died and Anatoli survived? But a year or two later Anantoli died of avalance. Why "not to talk bad about the dead" not apply to him too? Because Scott was American and Anatoli was Russian? And is it always better to blame someone who is from a different country and different culture? It sounds so unfair to me. I'm not Russian or American, but I lived in both countries for some time. So I can more or less understand cultural and historical differences. And it looks to me like Anantoli was very misunderstood in this story. So sad that he died knowing that some people blamed him for things he was not culpable of.
@@rasakaraliute8771 Yes, based on first-hand accounts, it seems Anatoli's standards and conducts were too foreign to most of his companions. If you read his book, however, you can appreciate why he made the decisions he did. His book is beautiful.
@@hughjarse4205 have read it. also "Into thin Air". It's acually interesting to compare Anatoli's point of view with Krakauer's. It would be interesting to read Leena's book to. She had her own version of events.
Absolutely true. Without Anatoli back at the tents, NOBODY would have been there to save them, yet he was and he chose to go out and save these people…without Anatoli, almost everyone out there that night dies. These guys are both absolute heroes
If Doug Hanson had made it both up AND down Everest that year, Rob Hall would have pulled off the biggest PR victory for danger tourism in history. The rags to riches story of the ordinary little guy, whose own kids' school raised the money to send him up there and the humble Kiwi climber who helped them all achieve their dreams. That is a waaaay better sell than a spoiled billionaire who could toss around money like confetti to buy big experiences or a seasoned travel writer funded by his employers accomplishing the same feat. There were a lot of guides who could get a rich person to the top of the world but Rob Hall was going to be the guy who could get Everyman up there.
I believe that's why Rob Hall talked Doug into coming back and trying again. He'd got to see the inspirational possibilities in Doug succeeding the previous year. It was literally publicity you could not buy and a story no one would dare to make up. I believe that's why he talked Doug into continuing when he wanted to go back down on the fateful day. Indeed, Doug had struggled for much of the time acclimatising and Rob had resisted all suggestions that the guy really shouldn't have gone on the summit attempt at all.
And just maybe it was the guilt of knowing that Doug was ultimately in that position because Rob had made him believe his dream was possible that motivated Rob to stay. Maybe that was when Rob decided he couldn't leave that poor bloody postman he'd encouraged and cajoled and coaxed into a position he was not capable of getting himself out of, lying to die all alone at the top of the world.
Hubris and heroism can co-exist in a person and I do believe that in Rob Hall during that entire, ill-advised climbing season, they most certainly did.
How can we ever know if Rob coaxed Doug to keep going, or vice versa? No one was there but them to know what happened. Rob was very conservative, so I for one don’t believe in my heart that he wanted Doug to continue so late in the day. I believe he chose to stay with Doug after Doug decided by himself to keep going. But we’ll never know.
@@monyalawson3165 lmao. How about because Rob was the world famous paid guide and therefore was the one with the moral and ethical obligation to keep control of the expedition at all times and to always prioritise safety over summiting. Doug was a postman with an unrealistic dream. If Rob did take advice from Doug on the top of the world with failing light and bad weather brewing, then he is if anything MORE culpable for letting go of the reins.
But that is absolutely not what happened.
I don’t believe that Rob “took advice” from Doug, but I do believe he would have chosen not to leave him. I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong…. I just have trouble with anyone stating so definitively that something happened a certain way, when we really do not know (and never will).
I have wondered about how Doug was able to be away from a essentially blue collar job for so long back to back. When I worked for the state of California, co-workers could donate 'leave time' to their fellow workers. (The state was very particular that it be called 'Leave' rather than 'Vacation' Doug may have felt extra pressure being halfway around the on co-workers 'time'.
@@allanfifield8256 Oh the Post Office was all up in it. They gave him time off. The community raised funds to support his kids while he was gone. They all milked the little guy with a big dream trope for positive PR. I'm sure many of them genuinely got caught up in the romance of it, of the hope and equality and reward for hard work Doug represented.
It WAS extraordinary, what he managed to accomplish. Getting to Base Camp is beyond someone like me, probably, let alone making two summit attempts. The tragedy is had he gone home, turned back when Rob Hall's own guides and other very experienced climbers knew he should have, those accomplishments would have been dismissed as failures.
And everyone forgets that Rob Hall also told Beck Weathers that he should stay where he was until Rob came back to get him. Which is the beginning of why Beck lost both hands and half his face.
Wonderful man. So modest but actually a real modern day hero!!
Great interview. Love Neal and so glad to hear him speak on the 96 accident from his point of view.
Mr. Beidelman. You, and Mr. Mike Groom are real heroes! You both act like real men at the age of 30 something, when others where suposed to..
Like in a movie, when strongest and reachest people failure, and heroes stands up from backup..
Didn't forget anybody?
Uhhhh, Neil is in his 60's, he's currently 64 years old...
One of the highlights of my life was watching the Olympics of the year mrntioned...rhank you...
I am an Everest obsessed as well and just feel like crying every time i delve into this insane expedition.
Neil'your intelligence and personality was what allowed for your heroic guiding efforts.
Im glad Everest is in a good place in your heart...
Loved this interview. Respect for Everest, Anatoli, Neal, Andy. Charlotte, Yasuko, Rob and Scott. Sandy was a product of the time in the States, fortune seeking fame. Unfortunately Scott couldnt save himself after seeing what was potentionally within reach. We are dust.
Epic interview.
This was such an insightful add-on to Krakauer’s Into Thin Air as that book has been the bible to the ‘96 incident. Having another trustworthy account is extremely helpful and interesting. Neil always struck me as a stand up, honest guy.
have you read the climb? i read into thin air years ago and enjoyed it, but after having read the climb, i realize with certainty that i was duped and mislead...
@@jsmith5749 I have read The Climb, a challenge to Krakauer’s account of what happened by Anatoli. Keep in mind that much of what was written doesn’t have the backing that Into Thin Air does as most who were involved and are still alive admit that Krakauer did an accurate account and was truthful in the book’s documentation. Anatoli doesn’t have the same.
@@brianshickey With all due respect, I suspect that you have not read the book recently and memory of details has faded? I say that because I am just now about 90% of my way through the book so it's all fresh on my mind and I find your claim that the books lacks backing to be inaccurate. I've been very impressed by DeWalt's attention to detail. There are many personal accounts and quotes included to support the presentation of events. There are some points brought up that in my view blatantly and virtually inarguably show a lack of integrity from Krakauer. I'm not biased against Krakauer, I enjoyed Into Thin Air and I held Krakauer in high regard going into reading The Climb.
@@jsmith5749 Thanks for the feedback. I always enjoy a civil debate around topics like these. As for my recollection, you are partially correct in that it’s been about 4-5 years since I read it and as you commented, my recollection definitely isn’t as fresh as yours. Instead of comparing the two books which I think wouldn’t be fair to DeWalt or Anatoli as Krakauer’s attention to detail blows The Climb out of the water simply due to the fact that Krakauer’s trip was exclusively meant to document everything that transpired as a journalist for Outdoor magazine. His entire career as a writer was on the line had he decided to fabricate anything that happened during this fateful expedition. Ask Neil Biedleman, Beck Weathers or any of the Sherpas as to which account was more accurate.
As well, if we’re to compare the ’lack of integrity’ between Jon Krakauer and Anatoli Boukreev, the mere fact that Boukreev led Fisher’s team without using supplemental oxygen in itself pales in comparison to anything Krakauer may have done (according to the Kazakhstani mountaineer). Any guide doing this would be making a selfish and dangerously irresponsible decision as the lives of others could be seriously at risk. This in itself supersedes anything that DeWalt or Boukreev claim Krakauer did that was in poor judgment. I’ll leave you with this. Into Thin Air was a factual, non fiction, journalistic account of what happened during that horrible expedition whereas The Climb was written based on a resentment towards Krakauer’s account of Boukreev’s extremely poor judgement as an Everest guide. Which book do you think would be more accurate based simply on the motivation behind each account?
@@brianshickey i appreciate the civil debate as well. i don't have a whole lot of time to dive into this topic and as you know, it's very complex. i can't address all the points you made, but you brought up anatoli's decision to not use supplemental O2 and i left long comment on this video regarding that topic, also some of the things neal in the interview, and some other things. i'll copy it below.
"i'm very surprised to hear some of the things neal said about anatoli. for example, i have never heard the claim that anatoli was told to use oxygen on summit day. edit: i found a quote by scott fischer from the book The Climb saying the opposite of what neal said: "He [Scott] went on to say about Boukreev’s role on his expedition, 'Anatoli I know will not be using oxygen. Anatoli is an animal, a monster, that’s great.'" i also remember that anatoli specifically requested to have o2 available for him to use on summit day.
the suggestion that anatoli climbed without o2 on summit day for pride or for being a sportsman is in my opinion out of touch with the reality. anatoli said on multiple occasions that he was open to using o2 on summit day and that he would decide the day of, depending on how he felt. he felt fine so he went without it, taking one bottle just in case. in an expedition that anatoli later led on everest, he used oxygen when he felt it was necessary. he has said, "I have no dogma about using oxygen or not."
during the expedition, the mountain madness team ran into complications that stressed their oxygen supply and anatoli was thinking ahead, knowing to conserve. anatoli was right--had he climbed with o2 on summit day, there wouldn't have been enough oxygen bottles left for the mountain madness expedition members that he saved from the storm. anatoli had to literally take the oxygen bottles and masks off of sherpas who were safe in tents in order to scrounge o2 to save the dying clients, that's how bad the o2 situation was. it boggles me that huge 'details' like this somehow get swept under the rug.
the reason that anatoli descended ahead of the clients was to be on stand-by to offer support from below because the team was running dangerously behind schedule. on his way down, anatoli conversed with scott fischer and they agreed about the plan. jane bromet also shares testimony that scott told her weeks before the summit attempt that he had a plan in mind where if anything went wrong on summit day, he would have anatoli rush down to bring back up O2 and hydration for support (as fate had it, this came to pass). anatoli did the calculations to realize there was a very real chance that the clients would run out of o2 on the descent.
i would encourage anyone who wants the full story to read The Climb. there are endless other details that show that anatoli made every decision he could to best support the best interests of the clients. i also think neal did the best he could and i give him great credit. echoing sandy hill's sentiment, i think if anatoli had done anything 𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘭𝘺, the clients that he saved would've otherwise perished. in other words, i think he navigated the situation the best he could've and got the best out of a terrible situation.
here is quote from anatoli describing his decision to not use oxygen (this is just one small quote and there are other points not addressed here):
"My point about this. I have big experience with oxygen. If you use oxygen, it is very dangerous when oxygen finish. I afraid about this. I felt I can work without oxygen. If I will use oxygen and oxygen will finish, it will be much more difficult. Because it is physiology. You need use oxygen full-time. I afraid about this weather because I talk with Scott Fischer about this weather. Was not sure about weather will be very good. And, my point, not climb with this date. But Rob Hall have big experience, much bigger than my experience, and-"
he didn't think they should climb in the first place due to the weather, and he was concerned that if difficulties arose, he might find himself in a position of running out of oxygen. people tend to bring up the point that guides should use O2 to have full power to assist clients, forgetting the other side of the equation: "You need use oxygen full-time." - when you use oxygen, your body becomes dependent on it and running out can spell disaster."
Neal is just an awesome awesome gentleman!!!!!!
If you're going to read Krakauers book, you need to read Boukreevs one too.
Thanks for the tip…i’m in!!
Reading Boukreevs book first has put me off reading into thin air, but I’ve ordered it so I shall.
@@craig2307 good deal…..have to read both it seems.
@@craig2307 Definitely should read both books.
Yes. I read both but The Climb is not as well written as Into thin Air. Both you should read both.
Incredible and riveting interview. Neal is in class of his own, what a great guy. Does he hold the record of most time spent sitting on the 'top of the world' on the same day.
Such an amazing story, and told so well! Great interview!
Neal looks like he could still scale Everest with little problem. Way to go Neal.
He has, multiple times...
Fascinating interview, Neal comes across as a really good Guy .