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Monty, I don't know about Pontiac engines, but on Chevy engines a flat tappet cam is ground so that the thrust from the cam lobes on the tappets pull the cam to the rear of the engine. I would imagine Pontiac engines are the same. Good video!
Great point! I seem to recall that flat tappet Pontiac cams actually thrust forward, hence the cam plate. Most importantly, all roller cams are flat and we have to keep in mind that there's going to be some movement in the cam, unless you get a true fixed thrust bearing. Thanks for the comment!
TimeStamp 5:35 The distributor helical gear is always under load due to it also driving the oil pump. Regardless of accel or decel, the roller cam will be pushed (I forgot which way) either in or out at all times. Pls correct me if I'm mistaken.
The way I understand it is it could go in either direction, depending on the dynamics of the situation, hard accel, decel, etc... Always recommended to add a "Fixed" bearing to prevent any axial movement. Thanks!
I assume you watched the whole video and figured it out? If not, at the end of the video I show the different measurements by changing the crank pulley offset. (You obviously need an adjustable timing crank pulley) Hope that helped!
I'm having oil pressure issues and and also what sounds like a lifter tick. I'm tearing the 400 down and rebuilding - this video was SUPER HELPFUL. I ordered the cam {Factory Muscle} from comp cams and coupled it with hydraulic lifters. I'm actually looking fwd to rebuilding after seeing this vid. (( thankyou ))
Sorry to hear about the dead lifter... BUT, glad to hear you're going to rebuild it yourself. As you know, I've covered the entire process, you might want to start with my latest series first, here's the playlist; ruclips.net/p/PL0VCtZe2W6ebMbdjZTXHvLxfAr2lAWukl It starts with a tear down episode, but jumps to cleaning, painting, bearing measurement, etc... let me know if you have any questions along the way. Have fun!
Loved this one! Just degreed my BP2022 with this as a reference. Appreciate your detail and making this super simple. Now I feel like I can degree in a cam super quick next time. Thanks for the video FMG!
For those of us who have never seen the Sims roller bearing retainer plate - your explanation is spot on. Pretty sure he DOES still sell them on the PY forum. Nice videos' btw.
I’m sure it’s fine using the same cam bolt, but would it benefit using a new ARP cam bolt? Would you torque it the same amount with blue thread locker? Thanks!
ARP is the best! Same torque... use this link from Butler Performance that lists all of the engine fastener torque specs; butlerperformance.com/p-34888-pontiac-engine-torque-specs.html
If you're absolutely certain you measured correctly, and your LSA is off, the CAM is wrong. That's why we do this test, to make sure the cam specs match what you ordered. Measure a few more times to make sure... if you're still correct, talk to whoever sold you the cam and get the correct one. Let us know how it goes!
Hi, I degreed a cam about 30 years ago when 14 yesrs old. SBC Im back at it with a pontiac 400. Loved your video- i have a really weird question please. My mind is totally stuck on why we would degree the cam? I have the tools and am ready to do this... but would love to know what is really happening? If the 2 sprokets are locked in... (cam and crank) then what could bw changed by doing doing this? Or is it just a check? Im sure im missing something simple... Please help!!!
Hey Tyler, great question. Generically, no you don't need to degree your cam, unless you want to extract a bit more horsepower at the top end, OR you just want to double check the cam card specs. If you're using a new cam and the serial number matches the cam card, you'd be fine with installing "straight up". Hope that helps!
You mean the plate the comes with the Sims Roller kit? I don't think it's sold separately... If you check BOP Engineering, they should have this kit, and/or a different solution. Good luck!
Thanks for the fast reply and no, I’m talking about the pvc/plastic sleeve that you slide onto the camshaft so it centers the thrust plate during install. It’s in the video @ 7:21.
Ohhh, yeah, that thing is super helpful, but I'm sure it only comes with that SIMS bearing set. BOP might know where to get one. Good luck!@@SoullessCasper
Loved your video on how to degree a cam . and did not realize that Comp Cams had a degrees kit . The positive stop was a great way to degree the CAM with head's off. Also I learned thanks to you Mike about the sprocket for the crank , I probably would have set adding 2 degrees instead of subtracting . great job teaching me the correct way . Thanks again. 👍✌😀
About 8:20 in, you reference the Butler timing chain with the Torrington bearing, and say "you don't need that plate." It sounds almost as if you are saying you don't need to use the thrust plate......surely that can't be correct, and I misunderstood you? That's the one I have, but I am still using the plate. Also......interesting you set up the cam "straight up." Just curious to know if you considered retarding it. Most modern engines are around 114-116 (lobe centerline), and even older Pontiacs are usually in the 112 range. Same cam, I have mine sitting at 114 right now (in process so I can change). 461 w/ 300CFM Edelbrocks from Butler.
Good catch Harry... I did a poor job explaining that. I meant the plate that has the needle bearings in it, that I'm using. But, the standard thrust plate is used for the Butler set, right? I actually did retard (or advanced??) mine to match the Cam card 108 center line. The second time I did this, I went "straight up", which is more in line with what you're talking about. Per Butler, they said straight up is more driveable, where actually matching the cam card is for high end max power. And yes, this crap still confuses me, as I touch a cam every 4 years. Lol. Thanks!
I have a 350 Pontiac that I think my have a bigger cam in it it's just setting in the car with the manifold loose and I also have a 455 on the stand I'm wanting to measure it but can't find the specs Im restoring everything my self even if it costs more I just retired and this is what I've looked forward to I am a real shade tree I. Will also be doing my on machine work if you know we're I can find the information thanks
Good catch. I removed the fuel pump lobe, because I'm now fuel injected. Check to see if you're getting any fuel pressure.. When I had a carb, i installed a fuel pressure gauge right before the carb so I can visually see 6 lbs of pressure. Hope that helps!
@FastMonty Hello,70 grand prix 400 full rebuild. Stock rebuild with a roller cam nothing radical,I did not do the rebuild,I just dropped the distributor and wired live wires with e 3 plugs they have 3 tips. I have gas to carb,yesterday I pulled distributor reprimed engine oil, dui distributor typical firing order wires correct rotor point faces 1 on the cap at 1 oclock ,spark yes,pulled all the plugs have piston 1 tdc( paper blew out of plug one, 25 percent of rotation before timing mark hit 0 degree on case. Then rotated block to zero piston up a little higher screw driver on piston appears TDC. Does not start ,cranks small pops,I mechanical but not a mech.not sure what to do
In all honesty, it sounds like a timing issue. Double check your wires are in the correct positions, and remember a Pontiac distributor spins the opposite direction as a Chevy. @@josephvettorino8405
Not sure what you're after here... assuming you have a timing wheel, I explain exactly how to do that. (At least, I thought I did :)) If you do not have a timing wheel, install the cam "Straight up", ie dot to dot on the cam/crank gear. Thanks!
Hey again I know you did a vid about installing ll the clutch components ( 4 speed) Im ging to be putting alot of it together and am looking for the vid you did on that. Theres a rod coming off my countershaft I dont remember what its for, theres 2 bolts threaded on one end the other end is blank. Im hoping I can find it somewhere in here or the forum. Thanks man DR
Thanks so much for all you do with this channel! I been building my 455 w butler stuff, roller hydraulic setup and had a noise coming from lifter/cam area. I just pulled motor, everything clean, oil pressure was good. I noticed what seems like a lot of cam end play. I used the used flat tappet retaining plate. And a new jp performance chain from butler, non bearing. How can I know which retaining plate to get or if my “slop” was causing a noise? I do see wear on the plate.
Brother Joe, sorry for the delay. It really depends what the noise is. For a roller set up I highly recommend a fixed bearing set up for the cam gear. That'll keep the cam stationary. I know Butler has one, but I used the Sims Machining version. Hope that helps.
Hello Mike. Installing the same cam on a 455 bored .040. Two questions. Did you use a standard key in the camshaft? Second, in one of your comments you mentioned you would recommend a straight up on the timing. Can you explain why. Thank you.
Good questions... yes, standard key. Butler had recommended straight up timing because it's more street friendly. Dialing it in, via the cam card recommended timing would give you a few extra horses at the very top end of the rpm range, best suited for drag racing. So, I elected for better drivability, again per Butler Performance. Hope that helps!
@@FastMonty One more question. When do you reposition the dot on the cam gear to 12:00. Is it after you degree the cam? When you position it at 12:00 what is the position of piston #1?
@@rickfogel257 Good question, as usual..😁 So, I say that for Flat Tappet guys with non-adjustable valve train, when you leave it at 12 oclock, Number 1 is at TDC. It's a moot point with an adjustable valve train because you have to rotate the engine several times while adjusting. Hope that helps.
Great question... not much. LOL If you go "straight up" with the dots, the engine will be a little more well behaved on the low end, but will loose a little power on the top end. Hope that helps!
I'm in the process of ordering that special cam plate that you are using. When you had your block raced prepped did you have to order your timing chain special or was it standard length. Can you give me any special advise. Did you convert your block to a 4 bolt main set-up. Should I have all my block work done first. Did Butler Performance do your machining. Wish I could talk to you in person by cell. Thanks
Good questions. Standard length chain. 2 bolt mains. (BTW, do 4 bolt now of you can afford it.) I had a local machine shop do my machining. Hope that helps!
Hey Douglas, good question. The degree wheel is basically to verify the specs of your cam. If you trust your supplier, you can throw it in there, and line up the dots on the cam and crank gears, as I went through... hope that helps!
Good question... I got it from Butler, here; butlerperformance.com/i-24452911-butler-camshaft-installation-tool-bpi-1020.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fbutlerperformance.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3Dcamshaft%2Btool
It's not super tight, but tight enough not to move about .25" in either direction. If it exceeds that, change it. Also be mindful that the block could have been Align Honed, which decreases the distance between the crank and cam, and could affect how a "standard" timing chain fits. You'd need to get a slightly shorter chain. Hope that helps!
Good question Terry, I honestly do not know. Maybe try lining up the timing dot on the cam gear, in between the 4 degree marks, on the crank gear? Let us know what works for you.
Good one. Ever do one for the aluminum radiator & fan? Im having heating problems in my65 which has a RA III engine and considering a alum & fan install.
Thanks Dan. Sorry to hear about your heating issues. No, I don't have a radiator/fan install video yet. It is fairly simple though, the hardest part is actually hiding all the wiring. That said, have you seen my head cooling trick? While not mandatory, it might give you some insight to other cooling options... ruclips.net/video/DWvVkrGQDsw/видео.html Good luck, and thanks for the comment!
Im sorry for the redundant question, just read some of the others that are similar. Im just doing a plain rebuild, down and dirty, and just trying to get close on the timing. Its still a bit confusing to me as im new to the pontiac motors. Would it still be correct to have the dot lined up on top away from the lower dot?
@@airforrest Good question... when aligning it, you can put the dot at the bottom, so it's closest to the crank pulley. But, before you button up the timing cover, rotate the crank so the dot is on top. That's basically top dead center of number 1. Not mandatory, because you can check for TDC using the finger over the #1 spark plug hole. Hope that makes more sense?
Dot at 6 oclock, firing on #6. Dot at 12 o’clock, firing on #1, correct? And the respective cylinder will then have the exhaust valve cam lobe at that point nearing the lifter, that is, past 180 degrees opposed- maybe about at a 90 degree angle to the lifter? And the intake lobe is about 180 degrees from the lifter on the same cylinder? This seems to be opposite cam lobe position (intake and exhaust) at this position for #1 vs #6- same lobe position but opposite valves- Just making sure I have this right-that’s how mine is appearing. Thanks
Good question... yes, to your firing and dot position question. And yes, the exhaust lobe is approaching the lifter, because after firing, the exhaust valve needs to open. Thanks!
Mike - Love the videos! Just discovered them recently, I'm currently in the middle of a 461 build myself and noticed your cam was the BP8022SP. That's the same one I've got but haven't installed yet. How do you like the cam? Any regrets? I was looking for drivability first and then fun second! The guys at Butler's recommended it. Please share your thoughts. Also - Do you have a specific video with that cam just idling? I'd love to hear it. Thanks. - Tom
Awesome... yeah, no regrets. Super easy to drive, as advertised by Butler. I recommend installing it "straight up" as timing is concerned. The idle? welp, give the following a review; Cut out installation; ruclips.net/video/VyAJCrFVlLA/видео.html GTO Walkaround; ruclips.net/video/NcgjQYOGmV8/видео.html FYI, I have MagnaFlow 2.5" exhaust. Let me know if you have any questions along the way! Thanks for the comment.
Good question. If you're changing the keyway location on the crank sprocket, you have to remove the degree wheel...so, make sure the degree wheel is at zero, before removing it. When you reinstall the degree wheel, set it back to the zero mark. That being said, there's nothing wrong with finding tdc every time. Just to make sure. Thanks for commenting,and good luck with your build!
Mike Montanari I’ve been having an awful time trying to get this cam degreed but once I started reestablishing TDC after each change it all feel into place. Still love my Pontiac no matter how much it fights me! Thanks for your response.
so, why am i moving the dot to the top of the cam sprocket??? How will this affect my distributor install? Where should the rotor be pointing then? I always lined up the dots close together, and never had a problem... Will this affect my fire up?
Good Question, Mike. My intent was to illustrate that if you keep your dots at the closest point, throughout the entire build, you're actually on the compression stroke of Number 6 cylinder. So, you can move it to the "top" after installing with the two dots together, to ensure you're at TDC on the compression stroke of number 1. OR, wait until you're completely done with the build, and find the compression stroke with the ol finger/thumb over the number one spark plug hole, and wait for the piston to push air past your finger, telling you it's on the compression stroke. Then use the balancer to double check you're at TDC. (Which is always good to do as a sanity check) Then put your distributor in. Sorry for the excess info in the video... I'll admit, it's confusing. Thanks for the comment!
sorry to bug you but whats the engine paint you use? Having a hard time finding right color.Im going to to my heads so Im going to watch your cooling tip. Thanks!
No problem, Dan... Check out this video I did for painting my heads, I also go through the paint I used. ruclips.net/video/3QtmxWlZtaE/видео.html Ironically enough, Butler Performance sells the same paint at a great price, and many others too... here; butlerperformance.com/search.html?q=paint Have fun!
Wait, during the initial installation you had marks pointed to each other, yet Pontiac requires the large gear dot to be away from the lower. Later in your video it is correct. Iam i missing something?
Thanks George... you're correct. During install, it's easier to line up the dots, when they're closest. Ie, Cam Gear Dot at 6 o'clock. But, as I said in the video, if you were to button everything up, and leave it that way, timing would start on #6. Which is why I said to rotate the Cam Gear Dot to 12 oclock, before buttoning it up. Hope that makes sense. (If you have adjustable rockers, it doesn't matter because you have to rotate the engine to set valve lash, the 12 oclock trick is for stock rockers, because those are just torqued to 20 lbs) Hope that helps.
how do you feel about roller set ups? my father and i have firebird with a 400 in it and we need to do the cam and lifters i want to go with a roller system but im not sure if it will be worth all the extra parts do we need to go with new valve springs and rockers as well as valves if we change to a roller cam/lifters?
Liam, seeing's how my first roller set blew up, that's a tough question. But, I have faith in an American Made set, which are Johnson Lifters, from Butler. Anyway, yeah, the point of a roller is to have a more aggressive cam, which would require higher pressure springs to ensure the roller maintains contact with the cam throughout the entire rotation. And, if you're going to go that far, you might as well get high ratio rockers to optimize the valve movement. All that equals more power... tough and expensive decision, I know. Good luck, and thanks for the question/comment. I'm sure others are wondering the same thing.
@@FastMonty you ROCK! So the factory valves will be okay or are there better valves we should be checking out? Or do you know of a kit that includes everything we will need to go to rollers?
mike i just got my 69 firebird returned after having water pump replaced. I cramked t up and th crankpully is not turning therefore nothing else woks. does the bottom pulley have i bolt like a sBC or does it have more 4 bolts or both
What?! is the balancer turning? If the balancer is turning, I'm pretty sure the crank pully is held on by four bolts. (Mine is, but I have an aftermarket set)
Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) which is 112 for my cam, is different than the Intake Center line of 108. The LSA doesn't change. The Intake Center Line can change based on your adjustable crank sprocket. If you don't have an adjustable sprocket, you can use the standard "straight up" timing, where the dots are lined up on the sprockets. That'll be close enough. Those that are particular, like me, want it as spec'd on the card. Hence the process. Hope that makes sense?
yes, and no... with the installation tool installed, you should be able to spin it freely with a wrench. Due to "Stiction" the cam will not start turning easily, but once you get it turning, you can tell right away if it's too tight, or not. Hope that helps.
@@srenjustsen6749 Are you referring to the Crank Bolt, that holds the harmonic balancer on? 160 ft lbs. Here's a link that will help... www.wallaceracing.com/torque.htm
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Monty, I don't know about Pontiac engines, but on Chevy engines a flat tappet cam is ground so that the thrust from the cam lobes on the tappets pull the cam to the rear of the engine. I would imagine Pontiac engines are the same.
Good video!
Great point! I seem to recall that flat tappet Pontiac cams actually thrust forward, hence the cam plate. Most importantly, all roller cams are flat and we have to keep in mind that there's going to be some movement in the cam, unless you get a true fixed thrust bearing. Thanks for the comment!
TimeStamp 5:35 The distributor helical gear is always under load due to it also driving the oil pump. Regardless of accel or decel, the roller cam will be pushed (I forgot which way) either in or out at all times. Pls correct me if I'm mistaken.
The way I understand it is it could go in either direction, depending on the dynamics of the situation, hard accel, decel, etc... Always recommended to add a "Fixed" bearing to prevent any axial movement. Thanks!
At 20.27, you say you would show how to fix it, if it's not on 108 degress, I would like to know how🎉🎉😊😊
I assume you watched the whole video and figured it out? If not, at the end of the video I show the different measurements by changing the crank pulley offset. (You obviously need an adjustable timing crank pulley) Hope that helped!
I believe a good thing to do is take a stone and go over all edges of the cam ! This will keep material from breaking !
Yeah, maybe back in the day, but not needed with modern cam manufacturing. Thanks.
Got me good. I totally said Oldsmobile out loud. Then you laughed at me 🤣
Ha! Glad I got you! ha, ha..
I'm having oil pressure issues and and also what sounds like a lifter tick. I'm tearing the 400 down and rebuilding - this video was SUPER HELPFUL. I ordered the cam {Factory Muscle} from comp cams and coupled it with hydraulic lifters. I'm actually looking fwd to rebuilding after seeing this vid. (( thankyou ))
Sorry to hear about the dead lifter... BUT, glad to hear you're going to rebuild it yourself. As you know, I've covered the entire process, you might want to start with my latest series first, here's the playlist; ruclips.net/p/PL0VCtZe2W6ebMbdjZTXHvLxfAr2lAWukl It starts with a tear down episode, but jumps to cleaning, painting, bearing measurement, etc... let me know if you have any questions along the way. Have fun!
Loved this one! Just degreed my BP2022 with this as a reference. Appreciate your detail and making this super simple. Now I feel like I can degree in a cam super quick next time. Thanks for the video FMG!
Saaaweeet! That's great to hear! Thanks for the comment!
For those of us who have never seen the Sims roller bearing retainer plate - your explanation is spot on. Pretty sure he DOES still sell them on the PY forum. Nice videos' btw.
Thanks Lou!
I’m sure it’s fine using the same cam bolt, but would it benefit using a new ARP cam bolt? Would you torque it the same amount with blue thread locker? Thanks!
ARP is the best! Same torque... use this link from Butler Performance that lists all of the engine fastener torque specs; butlerperformance.com/p-34888-pontiac-engine-torque-specs.html
Thank you so much. You gave me peace of mind lol.
@@eliasmaximus4857 Ha! No worries, you got this!
You have a great channel
Thanks Jackson!
Monty,
I followed your steps to the T. My cam card says 110 lobe separation, but I come in at 108. Am I good or not.
If you're absolutely certain you measured correctly, and your LSA is off, the CAM is wrong. That's why we do this test, to make sure the cam specs match what you ordered. Measure a few more times to make sure... if you're still correct, talk to whoever sold you the cam and get the correct one. Let us know how it goes!
So you don't see the need to use the lifter valley support brace using a roller on the Pontiac blocks?
Great question... not for Hydraulic Rollers. But, yes for Solid Rollers. Hope that helps!
Hi,
I degreed a cam about 30 years ago when 14 yesrs old. SBC
Im back at it with a pontiac 400. Loved your video- i have a really weird question please.
My mind is totally stuck on why we would degree the cam? I have the tools and am ready to do this... but would love to know what is really happening?
If the 2 sprokets are locked in... (cam and crank) then what could bw changed by doing doing this? Or is it just a check?
Im sure im missing something simple...
Please help!!!
Hey Tyler, great question. Generically, no you don't need to degree your cam, unless you want to extract a bit more horsepower at the top end, OR you just want to double check the cam card specs. If you're using a new cam and the serial number matches the cam card, you'd be fine with installing "straight up". Hope that helps!
Do you know if you can buy the thrust plate centering sleeve separate or what kit did it come in? Thank you
You mean the plate the comes with the Sims Roller kit? I don't think it's sold separately... If you check BOP Engineering, they should have this kit, and/or a different solution. Good luck!
Thanks for the fast reply and no, I’m talking about the pvc/plastic sleeve that you slide onto the camshaft so it centers the thrust plate during install. It’s in the video @ 7:21.
Ohhh, yeah, that thing is super helpful, but I'm sure it only comes with that SIMS bearing set. BOP might know where to get one. Good luck!@@SoullessCasper
Loved your video on how to degree a cam . and did not realize that Comp Cams had a degrees kit . The positive stop was a great way to degree the CAM with head's off. Also I learned thanks to you Mike about the sprocket for the crank , I probably would have set adding 2 degrees instead of subtracting . great job teaching me the correct way . Thanks again. 👍✌😀
Thanks John! Always great to hear I've been able to educate. I too am learning from you. See you soon!
About 8:20 in, you reference the Butler timing chain with the Torrington bearing, and say "you don't need that plate." It sounds almost as if you are saying you don't need to use the thrust plate......surely that can't be correct, and I misunderstood you? That's the one I have, but I am still using the plate. Also......interesting you set up the cam "straight up." Just curious to know if you considered retarding it. Most modern engines are around 114-116 (lobe centerline), and even older Pontiacs are usually in the 112 range. Same cam, I have mine sitting at 114 right now (in process so I can change). 461 w/ 300CFM Edelbrocks from Butler.
Good catch Harry... I did a poor job explaining that. I meant the plate that has the needle bearings in it, that I'm using. But, the standard thrust plate is used for the Butler set, right? I actually did retard (or advanced??) mine to match the Cam card 108 center line. The second time I did this, I went "straight up", which is more in line with what you're talking about. Per Butler, they said straight up is more driveable, where actually matching the cam card is for high end max power. And yes, this crap still confuses me, as I touch a cam every 4 years. Lol. Thanks!
I have a 350 Pontiac that I think my have a bigger cam in it it's just setting in the car with the manifold loose and I also have a 455 on the stand I'm wanting to measure it but can't find the specs Im restoring everything my self even if it costs more I just retired and this is what I've looked forward to I am a real shade tree I. Will also be doing my on machine work if you know we're I can find the information thanks
Awesome! Take your time, I know you can do it. Not exactly sure what you're looking for, but I'm sure it's available.
@@FastMonty thanks
was that a one piece eccentric, also a 2 piece is it supposed to be flutter at all my 400 just rebuilt not starting and no getting fuel up the carb ?
Good catch. I removed the fuel pump lobe, because I'm now fuel injected. Check to see if you're getting any fuel pressure..
When I had a carb, i installed a fuel pressure gauge right before the carb so I can visually see 6 lbs of pressure. Hope that helps!
@@FastMonty are you available for a ask a question by phone.
I wish I could... but, I'd be happy to answer questions here. Or, by email. Thanks! @@josephvettorino8405
@FastMonty Hello,70 grand prix 400 full rebuild. Stock rebuild with a roller cam nothing radical,I did not do the rebuild,I just dropped the distributor and wired live wires with e 3 plugs they have 3 tips. I have gas to carb,yesterday I pulled distributor reprimed engine oil, dui distributor typical firing order wires correct rotor point faces 1 on the cap at 1 oclock ,spark yes,pulled all the plugs have piston 1 tdc( paper blew out of plug one, 25 percent of rotation before timing mark hit 0 degree on case. Then rotated block to zero piston up a little higher screw driver on piston appears TDC. Does not start ,cranks small pops,I mechanical but not a mech.not sure what to do
In all honesty, it sounds like a timing issue. Double check your wires are in the correct positions, and remember a Pontiac distributor spins the opposite direction as a Chevy. @@josephvettorino8405
Cool, Very nice how too video, I loved it .
Thanks Will!
How do I calculate what the initial advance should be when putting the timing chain gears on
Not sure what you're after here... assuming you have a timing wheel, I explain exactly how to do that. (At least, I thought I did :)) If you do not have a timing wheel, install the cam "Straight up", ie dot to dot on the cam/crank gear. Thanks!
I just did stock stuff... but is still fun to watch!
Ha! Thanks Bob!
Hey again I know you did a vid about installing ll the clutch components ( 4 speed) Im ging to be putting alot of it together and am looking for the vid you did on that. Theres a rod coming off my countershaft I dont remember what its for, theres 2 bolts threaded on one end the other end is blank. Im hoping I can find it somewhere in here or the forum.
Thanks man DR
Maybe it was in this old one I did? ruclips.net/video/UgI5mYmsoQM/видео.html
Nope this isnt it the one where u put your clutch countershaft, spring etc together on the engine. I'll keep looking
That was the most confusing thing I ever looked at
Yeah, after you do it a few times, it makes more sense. Thanks!
Great video thanks
Welcome!
Thanks so much for all you do with this channel! I been building my 455 w butler stuff, roller hydraulic setup and had a noise coming from lifter/cam area. I just pulled motor, everything clean, oil pressure was good. I noticed what seems like a lot of cam end play. I used the used flat tappet retaining plate. And a new jp performance chain from butler, non bearing. How can I know which retaining plate to get or if my “slop” was causing a noise? I do see wear on the plate.
Brother Joe, sorry for the delay. It really depends what the noise is. For a roller set up I highly recommend a fixed bearing set up for the cam gear. That'll keep the cam stationary. I know Butler has one, but I used the Sims Machining version. Hope that helps.
Hello Mike. Installing the same cam on a 455 bored .040. Two questions. Did you use a standard key in the camshaft? Second, in one of your comments you mentioned you would recommend a straight up on the timing. Can you explain why. Thank you.
Good questions... yes, standard key. Butler had recommended straight up timing because it's more street friendly. Dialing it in, via the cam card recommended timing would give you a few extra horses at the very top end of the rpm range, best suited for drag racing. So, I elected for better drivability, again per Butler Performance. Hope that helps!
@@FastMonty Thank you for the quick response. So for clarity, the -2 you are calling straight up correct?
@@rickfogel257 Yeah, basically no advance or retard on the crank gear, and the dots are lined up between the cam and crank gears.
@@FastMonty One more question. When do you reposition the dot on the cam gear to 12:00. Is it after you degree the cam? When you position it at 12:00 what is the position of piston #1?
@@rickfogel257 Good question, as usual..😁 So, I say that for Flat Tappet guys with non-adjustable valve train, when you leave it at 12 oclock, Number 1 is at TDC. It's a moot point with an adjustable valve train because you have to rotate the engine several times while adjusting. Hope that helps.
Does anyone make a “top end” kit for my 64 326?
If that's a Pontiac, contact Butler Performance, and let us know... thanks!
So if you don't put the minus 2key way to the dot what will happen,so if you went zero to the dot
Great question... not much. LOL If you go "straight up" with the dots, the engine will be a little more well behaved on the low end, but will loose a little power on the top end. Hope that helps!
My apologies Fast Monty
I didn't catch the information the first couple times
Thanks
No worries, I probably filmed that portion 18 times. I know it's confusing, just take your time.
I'm in the process of ordering that special cam plate that you are using. When you had your block raced prepped did you have to order your timing chain special or was it standard length. Can you give me any special advise. Did you convert your block to a 4 bolt main set-up. Should I have all my block work done first. Did Butler Performance do your machining. Wish I could talk to you in person by cell. Thanks
Good questions. Standard length chain. 2 bolt mains. (BTW, do 4 bolt now of you can afford it.) I had a local machine shop do my machining. Hope that helps!
what step would you do if you do not have the degree wheel?? love all the other vids you do thank you
Hey Douglas, good question. The degree wheel is basically to verify the specs of your cam. If you trust your supplier, you can throw it in there, and line up the dots on the cam and crank gears, as I went through... hope that helps!
Good Job On The Video,I EnjoyThe Numbers ,Thank You !!!
Glad it was helpful!
Where did you get the Camshaft bar for Pontiac v8?
Do you have a part # for it ?
Thanks
Good question... I got it from Butler, here; butlerperformance.com/i-24452911-butler-camshaft-installation-tool-bpi-1020.html?ref=search:https%3A%2F%2Fbutlerperformance.com%2Fsearch.html%3Fq%3Dcamshaft%2Btool
Thanks for the help man putting a thumpr cam in my 1970 gto 👌🏁
Saaaweeet! That'll sound awesome! Thanks for the comment.
How tight is the timing chain supposed to be? Mine doesn’t feel tight at all
Pontiac 400
It's not super tight, but tight enough not to move about .25" in either direction. If it exceeds that, change it. Also be mindful that the block could have been Align Honed, which decreases the distance between the crank and cam, and could affect how a "standard" timing chain fits. You'd need to get a slightly shorter chain. Hope that helps!
What if your lower gear only has 4 degree increments ? How do you adjust for 2 degrees ?
Good question Terry, I honestly do not know. Maybe try lining up the timing dot on the cam gear, in between the 4 degree marks, on the crank gear? Let us know what works for you.
Good one. Ever do one for the aluminum radiator & fan? Im having heating problems in my65 which has a RA III engine and considering a alum & fan install.
Thanks Dan. Sorry to hear about your heating issues. No, I don't have a radiator/fan install video yet. It is fairly simple though, the hardest part is actually hiding all the wiring. That said, have you seen my head cooling trick? While not mandatory, it might give you some insight to other cooling options... ruclips.net/video/DWvVkrGQDsw/видео.html Good luck, and thanks for the comment!
Always thought that on a Pontiac motor the dot on the top sprocket was supposed to be on top, unlike a Chevy V8, is that not correct?
Im sorry for the redundant question, just read some of the others that are similar. Im just doing a plain rebuild, down and dirty, and just trying to get close on the timing. Its still a bit confusing to me as im new to the pontiac motors. Would it still be correct to have the dot lined up on top away from the lower dot?
@@airforrest Good question... when aligning it, you can put the dot at the bottom, so it's closest to the crank pulley. But, before you button up the timing cover, rotate the crank so the dot is on top. That's basically top dead center of number 1. Not mandatory, because you can check for TDC using the finger over the #1 spark plug hole. Hope that makes more sense?
Dot at 6 oclock, firing on #6. Dot at 12 o’clock, firing on #1, correct? And the respective cylinder will then have the exhaust valve cam lobe at that point nearing the lifter, that is, past 180 degrees opposed- maybe about at a 90 degree angle to the lifter? And the intake lobe is about 180 degrees from the lifter on the same cylinder? This seems to be opposite cam lobe position (intake and exhaust) at this position for #1 vs #6- same lobe position but opposite valves- Just making sure I have this right-that’s how mine is appearing. Thanks
Good question... yes, to your firing and dot position question. And yes, the exhaust lobe is approaching the lifter, because after firing, the exhaust valve needs to open. Thanks!
Mike - Love the videos! Just discovered them recently, I'm currently in the middle of a 461 build myself and noticed your cam was the BP8022SP. That's the same one I've got but haven't installed yet. How do you like the cam? Any regrets? I was looking for drivability first and then fun second! The guys at Butler's recommended it. Please share your thoughts. Also - Do you have a specific video with that cam just idling? I'd love to hear it. Thanks. - Tom
Awesome... yeah, no regrets. Super easy to drive, as advertised by Butler. I recommend installing it "straight up" as timing is concerned. The idle? welp, give the following a review;
Cut out installation; ruclips.net/video/VyAJCrFVlLA/видео.html
GTO Walkaround; ruclips.net/video/NcgjQYOGmV8/видео.html
FYI, I have MagnaFlow 2.5" exhaust. Let me know if you have any questions along the way! Thanks for the comment.
Should you reestablish TDC each time you adjust your timing chain to a different key way? Great video helped me a lot!
Good question. If you're changing the keyway location on the crank sprocket, you have to remove the degree wheel...so, make sure the degree wheel is at zero, before removing it. When you reinstall the degree wheel, set it back to the zero mark. That being said, there's nothing wrong with finding tdc every time. Just to make sure. Thanks for commenting,and good luck with your build!
Mike Montanari I’ve been having an awful time trying to get this cam degreed but once I started reestablishing TDC after each change it all feel into place. Still love my Pontiac no matter how much it fights me! Thanks for your response.
Awesome! Glad it worked out!
Very helpful video, thank you!
Glad it helped! If you have any questions, drop a comment. Thanks again!
so, why am i moving the dot to the top of the cam sprocket??? How will this affect my distributor install? Where should the rotor be pointing then? I always lined up the dots close together, and never had a problem... Will this affect my fire up?
Good Question, Mike. My intent was to illustrate that if you keep your dots at the closest point, throughout the entire build, you're actually on the compression stroke of Number 6 cylinder. So, you can move it to the "top" after installing with the two dots together, to ensure you're at TDC on the compression stroke of number 1. OR, wait until you're completely done with the build, and find the compression stroke with the ol finger/thumb over the number one spark plug hole, and wait for the piston to push air past your finger, telling you it's on the compression stroke. Then use the balancer to double check you're at TDC. (Which is always good to do as a sanity check) Then put your distributor in. Sorry for the excess info in the video... I'll admit, it's confusing. Thanks for the comment!
Thank you for the “sanity check”! Makes more sense now
@@mikemodafferi5356 Nooo thank you for asking! great point of clarification. Keep em coming!
sorry to bug you but whats the engine paint you use? Having a hard time finding right color.Im going to to my heads so Im going to watch your cooling tip.
Thanks!
No problem, Dan... Check out this video I did for painting my heads, I also go through the paint I used. ruclips.net/video/3QtmxWlZtaE/видео.html Ironically enough, Butler Performance sells the same paint at a great price, and many others too... here; butlerperformance.com/search.html?q=paint Have fun!
Wait, during the initial installation you had marks pointed to each other, yet Pontiac requires the large gear dot to be away from the lower. Later in your video it is correct. Iam i missing something?
Thanks George... you're correct. During install, it's easier to line up the dots, when they're closest. Ie, Cam Gear Dot at 6 o'clock. But, as I said in the video, if you were to button everything up, and leave it that way, timing would start on #6. Which is why I said to rotate the Cam Gear Dot to 12 oclock, before buttoning it up. Hope that makes sense. (If you have adjustable rockers, it doesn't matter because you have to rotate the engine to set valve lash, the 12 oclock trick is for stock rockers, because those are just torqued to 20 lbs) Hope that helps.
how do you feel about roller set ups? my father and i have firebird with a 400 in it and we need to do the cam and lifters i want to go with a roller system but im not sure if it will be worth all the extra parts do we need to go with new valve springs and rockers as well as valves if we change to a roller cam/lifters?
Liam, seeing's how my first roller set blew up, that's a tough question. But, I have faith in an American Made set, which are Johnson Lifters, from Butler. Anyway, yeah, the point of a roller is to have a more aggressive cam, which would require higher pressure springs to ensure the roller maintains contact with the cam throughout the entire rotation. And, if you're going to go that far, you might as well get high ratio rockers to optimize the valve movement. All that equals more power... tough and expensive decision, I know. Good luck, and thanks for the question/comment. I'm sure others are wondering the same thing.
@@FastMonty you ROCK! So the factory valves will be okay or are there better valves we should be checking out? Or do you know of a kit that includes everything we will need to go to rollers?
mike i just got my 69 firebird returned after having water pump replaced. I cramked t up and th crankpully is not turning therefore nothing else woks. does the bottom pulley have i bolt like a sBC or does it have more 4 bolts or both
What?! is the balancer turning? If the balancer is turning, I'm pretty sure the crank pully is held on by four bolts. (Mine is, but I have an aftermarket set)
How was your lobe separation 108 degrees but on the card it’s asking for 112? Do you automatically subtract or “advance” your timing?
Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) which is 112 for my cam, is different than the Intake Center line of 108. The LSA doesn't change. The Intake Center Line can change based on your adjustable crank sprocket. If you don't have an adjustable sprocket, you can use the standard "straight up" timing, where the dots are lined up on the sprockets. That'll be close enough. Those that are particular, like me, want it as spec'd on the card. Hence the process. Hope that makes sense?
@@FastMonty yes it did thanks
That's the Simms roller right?
Yes, sir! There's a link in the video description for it.
Can my camshaft go litle tight on my pontiac 455.????
I assume you're asking how tight is the cam when installed? The answer is it should be able to rotate easily, with break in lube.
Order peoble says spinding by hand??
yes, and no... with the installation tool installed, you should be able to spin it freely with a wrench. Due to "Stiction" the cam will not start turning easily, but once you get it turning, you can tell right away if it's too tight, or not. Hope that helps.
@@FastMonty thanks good help. Thank you very Much
@@FastMonty Hello again.. How Many foot pound can i Tight my care rods. Thanks you very Much..
@@FastMonty and how many foot pound can i Tight my my crankshaft. Thank you
@@srenjustsen6749 Are you referring to the Crank Bolt, that holds the harmonic balancer on? 160 ft lbs. Here's a link that will help... www.wallaceracing.com/torque.htm
Does your fuel pump eccentric sleeve move back and forth once tightened
I believe it does rotate on the inner sleeve. I'm almost at that point again in my latest rebuild... I'll find out, and will try and let you know...
@@FastMonty mine moves quit a bit towards the timing cover and back towards the timing gear where it makes a clicking sound. ???
@@jacklopresto2872 That does sound excessive. I'll video what mine looks like, when I get to it.
Awesome can’t wait. When will you be at that stage
@@jacklopresto2872 Hopefully this week. :)