Gibson Tailpiece Wrap-around or Not ?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- GUITAR REPAIR TIPS @StringTechWorkstations
I have always been passionate about openly sharing valuable insights into the world of guitar repair and maintenance.The StringTech Workstations and the accessories that you see in these 785+, videos, were designed to help you work safer / easier and more efficiently. Relax and breathe easy as you work with more precision and less effort. The Fretting Kits, Bridge Slotting Jigs, Neck Surgery Kits, and pre-profiled compensated nut blanks will help to speed up your output and augment your repair offerings.
Wrap around tailpiece @StringTechWorkstations
#wraparoundtailpiece
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#gibsonwraparoundtailpiece
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It's almost weird to hear a guitar so well in tune..
Lol !! You could always put it out of tune a bit if that makes you more comfortable .... ;^ ) .....
I did this top wrap with a Tribute Firebird. It does make a difference. The guitar stays in tune better, and I was able to lower the action. It did seem to cause the guitar body to resonate a bit more as well.
I really like the way you compensated that nut, learn something every day. I could do that with my dremel tool. Got plenty of blanks and I ain't seen to many Gibson that didn't need it. Thanks, good video.
This is amazing.
Perfect intonation and very nice playing. This was very enlightening and inspiring. Thanks for sharing your skills & talent. I'm hooked after one video! Take Care.
ruclips.net/video/8RAVQ5RG2cE/видео.html
I love how you test the intonation - on some of my guitars it's really hard to get a good intonation and others are just fine but nowhere close to your magic tuning.
More here now!!!! m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3324900184220821&id=100001026151518
Just figured out the wrap-around for myself on my ES-137 Custom. Decking the tailpiece really brings out the piano-like dynamics lent by the ebony fingerboard and the clean sustain of the soundblock. And it now stays in tune also! Those of you with brand new Gibsons and inexplicable tuning problems take heed, and make the change. The thing was just fine from case to couch, bending and sliding, from early morning to evening on an NYC spring day with big swings in humidity and temp. I don't know why Gibson doesn't ship these from the factory strung up as such, or just tell their customers that this is the correct way to do it. I have closeted this guitar for years because it never felt quite right to play. Now - oh man, what a tone!
Nonetheless, as Bonomassa, and a few others have explained, it just depends on the guitar. In some cases (Robert Baker), top wrapping actually increased the tension of his strings on a semi-hollow he had. Someone, I forget who (maybe Glaser?), reasoned that because you have a longer length of string used from the ball-end to the bridge, that more tension is the result.
It is odd, and WE are (definitely) odd. Love Bonomassa's expression that many guitar players "hear with their eyes.".
I did this on my LP clone, and it went from playing well with good sustain to perfect( stays in tune, and the sustain goes on forever). The easiest mod you can ever do.
I find myself always waiting for the clean chord changes play on the end(A minor 9etc) , finally great luthier that also plays great guitar!
I got a 61 reissue SG I over wrapped put on 11 tuned to e flat it's ace. Really easy to play .
I put a T-6 bridge with rollers stays in tune with floyd rose locking nut.And my Les Paul looks awsome.
I tried wrap around on my sg and set it up for it using Bonamasa’s guitar tech trick and it made me change all of my stop tailpieces you this method. I’m a huge fan.
Wow! I'm Impressed!
That Yamaha sounded very nice indeed , I've been contemplating buying one for a while but nobody I know has ever had one but after seeing this I'll be grabbing one next trip I take to the big smoke .
Great clip . Thanks,sir.
Could not agree more on this! I changed both of my Les Pauls to the Faber nickel masterkit, they provide 3 sizes of bushes to ensure you can achieve a full lock down of the tailpiece, together with clearance from the bridge casting. Of course this is easier to achieve with the ABR-1 as opposed to the much wider Nashville bridge!
Was wondering if anyone would mention this. I have several gibsons, the ones with Nashville bridge all need a slight raise of the tail piece and came with it raised. The ones with abr-1 don't. Pretty sure it'll be the bridge not the neck angle.
I did some experimenting on this issue and here is what I found. if the brake angle across the saddle allows the string to touch the bridge anywhere but the saddle you need to top wrap your strings. I had a problem with sustain and intonationbecause the break angle was too severe and allowed the low e string to touch the bridge behind the saddle. when I wrapped over the top of my tailpiece everything was corrected the guitar opened up and sounded much clearer and Fuller.
Isn't that why the tailpiece is adjustable?? Raise it till it doesn't touch
@@chriswebb383 on my setup I would have had to raise the tail piece much too far looking awkward and uncomfortable. On the other hand top wrapping the strings made it just perfect. Depends on the guitar I guess
I have a late ‘70s Les Paul Special, I’ve top wrapped that guitar for years for the exact reason you state. Before top wrapping I used to break A and high E strings because the rested on the back of the bridge, got the idea from Dan Erlewine’s old magazine column, haven’t broken strings since.
Cool ! Dan really lead the charge on this one ... all those years ago !
Did the WA on my LP for the same reason. Works great.
Very in tune. That nut is very effective. I need to learn how to do that.
Me too!! That intonation is amazing.
i dont' see the point in making nuts mathematically perfect. music is art not science. it the end of the day, no bad song ever became a gem because the tuning was more accurate.
If you worry about intonation and pitch perfection like this, you should learn keys / synth.
@@inspectahfragile9507 you cant get it perfect, but you can get it damn close, and thats gonna pay off in the end.
@@inspectahfragile9507 If you play with someone using keys/synth, then intonation is massively important, because you'll get out of tune with each other and sound like unwashed ass smells.
Do you have a video of how you create a compensated nut? I'd love to watch you do that. How do you determine the appropriate "tolerances" of each string?
There are hours of detailed videos on my Patreon channel that are available to all of the 3rd Tier subscribers.
@StringTech, Smooth. Why give all the "milk" away for free? ✌️
Wow, compensated nut makes a world of difference!
Todd Glacy how does one approach making the cuts? If it was standard for any guitar geometry surely manufacturers would set a machine once and make nuts properly forever?
If it were only that easy ....
Subscribed .......awesome vid
I love compensated nuts, a la my Music Man guitars. Don't know why it's not more common.
That SG and the Pacifica sound great. One thing that I think would be great is if they made those blanks you use in black, white, and cream. The SG, IMO, would look so much more natural with a cream-colored nut that more closely matches the binding and tuning keys.
These are actually an ivory colour.
Music to my ears
My word!! That intonation is insane. Why have I not heard of a compensated nut before? And how do I get one??
Where are you located ?
@@StringTechWorkstations I'm going to need one too.
I am a one man shop. We'll have to book it in. I don't hoard repairs ... a few at a time ... finish em' up and move to the next small batch. I am booking about 3 weeks out at the moment. Text: 519 275 1008
@@StringTechWorkstations Where are you located?
impressed, I have a 335, SG and LP style guitar with this bridge, the LP style is a Tokai, sounds great but feels tight, JB says to do a wrap around to make it less tight to play, your thoughts?
My criteria for wrap around -or not - is to allow for string clearance on the back of the bridge casting as the strings exit the tailpiece.
@@StringTechWorkstations thanks, does it affect playability in your opinion?
I'd really have to do a study on that ... to give an honest opinion. Joe Bonamassa has played a few thousand Gibsons .... he seems to think it does make a difference. Just saying .... MMcC
I own about 100 guitars and am always surprised at how some are just a pain to intonate and others are easy. I have a Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Historic that is just perfect, it's a 60 Reissue. I have two other Historics that are ok too but not as perfectly intonated. I'm sure you would argue neither one is perfectly intonated and you are probably correct.
100 guitars. Yep ... you've really got the guitar-bug. Lol ! Cheers ! MMcC
Brilliant- tech and music theory in one, thanks for posting🎸🎼🤟
Great video that I picked up on when viewing the comments in another player's video this morning who said top wrapping his LP Custom had not worked for him. I see from this video there is a bit to consider overall. Interesting comment: "Of the 200 Gibsons I've done, I've only top wrapped 5" (hope I got that right). Glad to be a new subscriber, thanks.....
ruclips.net/video/8RAVQ5RG2cE/видео.html
Subscribed. Very informative, thank you.
ruclips.net/video/8RAVQ5RG2cE/видео.html
My goodness.where in the uk can get a compensated nut and a setup like that!please let me know.ive never even heard of a compensated nut!
I've been getting a lot of requests like this ..... I've got a bunch of new Patreon Level 3 subscribers that will be training for this; so hopefully we will get someone in your neck of the woods up and running soon. It is not just the nut itself Tim; it also requires understanding and accurately executing the installations and calibrations to the bridge to accommodate all of the variables.
Oh wow I thought that was a specific tail piece you put on there. That's how Gibson is making them these days? That's pretty awesome.
This allows them to cover their bases ... wrap around or not ... depending on the neck set .... which still varies, surprisingly.
I've installed an aluminum stop tail piece with the vintage/crowned shape, like in this video, and got increased sustain on the few guitars I've done it on.
Interesting that the lighter aluminum tailpiece would give you more sustain ... I'm sure it would change the sound ... and probably for the better if you have done this on a "few guitars" ... to make the comparison; but I am surprised that it would increase the sustain. MMcC
I swapped an old heavy tail piece from my les paul with the new light tail from my SG to make them both better balanced. I didn't notice any sustain change, but the les paul got darker and the SG got brighter. Both guitars resonate greatly and notes live forever. The LP tail is from 97 and the SG from 2018. Both are the exact same shape.
Just a little clarification. This is a great video, but it is about Top Wrapping. It is not about Wraparound Tailpieces.
Wrap-Around / Top Wrapping ..... I think it is pretty clear ... which-ever "turn of phrase " you prefer. Cheers Mike.
Is there a perfect break angle between the bridge and tailpiece or is it just so it clears the back edge of the bridge? I have a nice epi les Paul that I'm fixing up and I like to wrap my strings. I do it to my Gibson Lp and it works fine. When I do it on my epi, with the tailpiece sitting on the body and the strings wrapped it plays real nice but I got a slight buzz on the e and b . Put a new bridge on it and it still does it. I like my tail peice to sit on the body so I ran the strings through the stock way and it sounds good but a little stiff playing. Big break angle but it works. I have to check the clearance of the strings on the back edge of the bridge. Cool channel, glad I found it.
Sounds like you are on the right track ... in this case ... adjusting the height of the tailpiece is the likely solution. MMcC
Yes Wrap Around
Got 3 Gibson's.. all 3 wrap the strings around the tail piece
I actually had never seen a compensated nut. Interesting. Need to learn more about that.
ruclips.net/video/237vjZmWWy4/видео.html
@@StringTechWorkstations THANK YOU!!! New subscriber!
Really good video. One thing I noticed is that your bridge is on backwards. Ghe adjustment screws on these guitars are supposed to face the neck, not the tailpiece. Is there a specific reason for this or just how it ended up?
The guitar arrived that way. The saddles were already notched. In this instance, I let sleeping dogs lie. ;^ ) !
Future purchase of a LP coming after the New Year-As far as Top Wrapping-a good majority of videos I've seen has people adding a "ball end" from a previous string to alleviate the "sharp end" of a Top Wrapped string. As to that bridge with the bevel on the center line-Where do you purchase that?
Lastly-A "Compensating" nut? Never saw that before. Would love to know if those come made specifically for a Les Paul or does someone with your expertise have to do it.
Noticed your Area Code-Canada? Why does it seem that all the people I would like to learn from (and pay) live in another freaking country? *Sigh*
The need to top wrap ( or not ) is determined by the neck to body angle. Yes ... sometimes adding a ball end to the string can help. If you are going to top wrap ... it's a good idea to purchase an extra tailpiece ... because those strings will eventually cut into that original tailpiece like a cheese cutter. ruclips.net/video/237vjZmWWy4/видео.html
I think it's safe to say you know what you're doing...perfect intonation perfectly demonstrated. The Ayatollah concurs.
Blessings Oh Mighty Ayatollah ! MMcC
LOL you're blessings are thankfully received
Thanks this is great video, I have always had a soft spot for the Pacifica in that spec/finish. From your perspective how would you rate this guitar quality and build wise ?
Nice !
StringTech Workstations Thanks thats all I needed to know,
Great video, man.
I have never done the wraparound on the tailpiece myself. I have, however, started raising the tailpiece significantly after a finger wagging from my local luthier. He told me slamming the tailpiece to the body was creating too much pressure on the bridge and collapsing the radius. Have you experienced this?
Your luthier has a good point. Those bridges do collapse over time My criteria for tailpiece adjustment, is to make sure that the strings clear the back of the bridge casting and go directly to the focal point on the saddles.
The Nashville bridge is so wide I never see a decked tailpiece that did not touch the back of the bridge. Switching to an ABR like bridge like the Tonepros NVR2 solves the issue. I hate how a top wrap looks and feels.
Philippe Gagnon
Why not file the back edge of the bridge for clearance? I understand the unclean look afterwards, but who can see it? More important is the playability...
Ya' I hear you Phillipe , I had a real problem with the look too ..... but after dealing with this for years ... I have to admit that there are definitely many cases where the wrap around is the best solution ( ask Joe Bonamassa ... or Mike Hickey ) MMcC
A compensated nut should be standard these days, at least on the big brands😌
If it was only that simple.
StringTech Workstations
Yeah, the intonation on a guitar is never perfect, just a compromised aproach. But a compensated nut with the staggering like on yours would help. This pattern seems to be a good startingpoint before individual finetunig. For the saddles I start wth tuning of one string, then move the saddles in a 1.2mm offset pattern position. Then finetuning each strings, on singlenotes and finally for chords up and down the neck. On chords, inharmonies are detectable by ear, and each guitar needs a different finetuning.
Thank you for the advise of chord to test the intonation !😀👍
Did myself (dental tech) cast from brass a compensated one with the same pattern as yours (after tests and correction with an inserted piece of plastic) for an LP type , that was in need for that. On low E 0.8 mm, till 1.9 mm on the g, and back down to 0.7 mm on the e. Big difference on the first 5 frets, then it dissipates gradually. On my others, the nuts are straight, the intonation is ok-ish...
I'm impressed and flattered. You understand the "moving target" aspect. This is why it is virtually impossible to expect manufacturers of guitars to make a "catch-all" compensated nut. It'll never happen.
StringTech Workstations
Yeah, it seems so- the manufacturer will not start to mount compensated nuts. Just one: PRS will be amongst the first, I'd like to predict. 😊 They have everything so near perfection, it's the obvious next step😌
On one if my guitar, a kit-build, I saw by eye that the distance from nut to first fret was too big, circa 1,2 mm. At that point (5years ago) my ear where not developed enough to notice the out of tune. Later I swapped the plastic with a luckilly 1,5mm thicker steel nut, and was happy to have kinda "compensation" even with a straight nut.
Great knowledge and fine, precise craftmanship you show and share in your vids. Chapeau! 👌
Absolutely fantastic channel. Phil Eng UK.
Welcome aboard! MMcC
Hello thanks for your intresting videos!
Let's go to buy an electric 🎸
Let's say that I found one 🤩
It's beauty,good feeling and tone.. and no buzzz
Before we buy it
Is there something,,must,,to check??
Good question. The best way to check the neck is to close one eye .... and look along the edge of the fingerboard on the bass side AND on the treble side . Looking from the nut .. down the full length to the body. It SHOULD be reasonably straight ( a slight bit of relief is OK ). Also consider the amount of adjustment available at the bridge ... is it possible to lower the action ? There is more to look for ... but this is a good start. Cheers ! MMcC
@@StringTechWorkstations Thank you 👌
I have 2 SGs i just put strings in tail piece backwards..I play in an Acdc tribute use to break alot of strings the reversal of the strings thru tail piece cuts the angle down but keeps the resonance of the Guitar i do my Les paul this way too rarely break strings Great old trick
Ever tried Ernie Ball cobalt strings? They sound great, and I haven't broken one in almost ten years.
@@ConvexSpade i will try em sometime
ruclips.net/video/A6IXIIBK3aM/видео.html
I wraparound allways . The are less prone to break. And I don't know why.
Hmmm ... interesting.
What is the brand and type of tailpiece you use on the SG?
Nice video. Greetings
Gibson
I've tried the wraparound on my explorer and flying v, but every time I do it the strings snap during the tuning. If they somehow doesn't break during tuning, the slightest vibrato or bend will. Is there any reason for this?
The intonation you have is incredible though!
Hmmm ? ..... are they snapping at the tailpiece ? Take a very close look to to where exactly they are breaking. As I mentioned ... a wrap around is not always the answer. Cheers, MMcC
I had the same problem so i wound up puting the ball end of the old string on to the new set before stringing them thru. It clears the wound part of the strings just enough so that it ain't under tension and makes it straight rather than bent. I haven't had a string brake since. There was a video on yt on the subject but i forgot who made it. I will link it if I find it
There you go he shows it around 3:30 :) ruclips.net/video/6aNJ-W47ghY/видео.html
So Gibson has "gotten onboard" with the fact that they can't produce guitars with enough precision to eliminate the need to wrap strings around the tailpiece, and sometimes not? I was told *long ago* by Gibson reps that the tailpiece was never designed to have the strings come over the top; it would ruin the gold plating on their better guitars almost immediately. And so it was that none of my old Gibsons (pre-67, let's say) needed to have the strings come over the top to compensate for a too-high bridge. But Gibson tolerances are now such that the tailpieces are designed to support the kludge?
It took me a while to accept this .... and you are right about the strings cutting through ( especially the aluminum tailpieces ! ) like a wire cheese cutter. I have warned in previous videos to swap out your original tailpiece with an aftermarket one ... if you choose to go this route. The "gotten on-board" ( or tossed in the towel ... Lol ! ) comment was referring to the fact that the early tailpieces never had the holes bored and recessed to accommodate the ball ends on the bridge side of the tailpiece castings.
Sorry but the wrap around discussion is really about accommodating a bad bridge design. The whole tune-o-matic bridge concept is flawed. No individual string height adjustment, and super high friction over the metal saddles. I'm sure this will attract a lot of flame but I challenge detractors to offer technical rebuttals (and just because artist X or Y used them, and they are awesome artists, is not a technical rebuttal. I'm talking about a bridge design that makes keeping in tune, intoned, accommodating preferences in action, and string guages, etc, accurate, easy and possible)
OK get ready for a firestorm .. Lol ! But seriously; the strat bridge design is pretty hard to beat ( can you tell I am a big Leo fan ? ) ... with a good half inch of travel on each saddle and the option to adjust the radius .... how do you improve on that ?
Where are you located? I’ve never seen a compensated nut and SGs are notoriously difficult to keep in tune.
Stratford Ontario
Before I watch the video I am going to say NOT.
There is one on the melody maker that wraps around. But not on LP's and LPjr that have the 2 piece bridge.
They are definitely times when ....
If only Gibson would set the necks at the correct angles these days
That would simplify things considerably.
I was under the impression that Gibson used slightly different angles for different models? They even noted the angle on some of their spec sheets.
From what I've seen , there are a lot of variations ... even within the same model / same year.
@@StringTechWorkstations I've seen some recent Standard/Traditional models where the tailpiece can sit flush to the body and still clear the Nashville bridge....
What qualifies a nut to mandate compensation?
Precise intonation is the objective.
I like the speed of that belt sander
60 Grit ... you can forget about "Classical Guitar Nails " lol !
What about using a compensated wraparound bridge as the stop tail on a guitar like that sg or les paul?
There are some sculpted tailpiece/ bridges that I've used in the past videos.
@@StringTechWorkstations like a wraparound bridge from a les paul junior, used as the tailpiece on a les paul with tuneomatic bridge? Any benefits to that over top wrapping a standard tailpiece? I like mine top wrapped and always wondered if a wraparound bridge would work or not. Happen to have a link to one of those videos?
ruclips.net/video/yhCiyeqSv5c/видео.htmlsi=cC5SI-dLLSp8SC-J
Just curious, I'm assuming this can't be done with locking nuts?
Not too sure what you are asking ?
@@StringTechWorkstations I was wondering if there would be a modification to a guitar with a locking nut (like a Floyd metal one). It seems unlikely to me, but I wanted to see if there was a workaround.
Thanks
Oh .. OK. The locking nut .. in this case ... is not necessary. When the nut is fabricated perfectly and lubricated there is "0" issues with this part of the equation. Cheers MMcC
Tailpiace all the way down= more strings stifness, it's true?
Not necessarily.
Surely,if.the.strings.were"too.stiff",the.tuning.would.be.SHARP---.Backing.the.tuners.until.concert.pitch.is.achieved.gets.string.tension.back.to.normal..
What is the purpose or advantage of a compensated nut?
ruclips.net/video/237vjZmWWy4/видео.html
There’s zero reason to lower the tailpiece all the way to the body.
Agreed.
What is the problem keeping the tailpiece high?
No problem with raising the tailpiece. It's just when you have to raise too much and it starts looking a bit goofy .... then you can switch to the wrap around. It'll be the tenon in mortise angle that dictates the the best route to go. Cheers MMcC
Looked like that sg needs a neck reset its got excessive back bow.
@@kitchenbriks3685 when did you look down the neck? Just because the bridge is high?
Do you have a website?
stringtech.net
It's ALL about neck angle!
Doing things by hand is a lost art
No completely.. hhhaa
Typically its called top wound when you do that to a tail piece, a wrap around is the all and one with the compensation molded in the top.
I'm good with that ... call it what you prefer. No issue. \m/ !
Why not just buy a tailpiece designed to wrap around?
The Bridge / Tailpiece ... like the early vintage LP Junior etc ... did not have a tailpiece behind the bridge. The tailpiece was the bridge. Like this :ruclips.net/video/mXmjdKkVMWc/видео.html
Where R U located?
You must be just getting home from a gig at this time ... Lol ! I'm in Stratford Ontario. MMcC
I have an 80s LP studio that I changed to a wrap around stringing 20 + years ago ... it never hardly ever goes out of tune... it’s just an amazing player Gibson LP...
Interesting that you jumped on that bandwagon all those years ago. I have to admit that I resisted that Idea for a long time ... then finally had to admit .. that in some cases it IS warranted. Cheers ... you really are a ROF !! Or as my grandaughters would would say ... Master Of Geezer-Rock. Thanks for posting \m/ !
Nice. I have '97 LP special that does not wrap and it has rock solid tuning. A nice thick neck, dry wood, good nut, no problems.
If Gibson had a proper design, you wouldn't need any Wrap-arounds!
I just got another LP in ... it should be a wrap around ... but the customers prefers to leave the tailpiece super high. Video coming up .....stay tuned.
Just don’t
In most cases it is not necessary. But I suggest to buy a second tailpiece and stash the original tailpiece. The strings do eventually cut into the tailpiece like a cheese-cutter. Just a suggestion for those who wish to save the original parts.
Hi, great video! I have an alternative to top wrapping you might be interested in, is there a way I can dm you?
Thanks
mcconvilleguitars@gmail.com