Horia Tool / Seitz Tool Showdown
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2023
- In this video I discuss and compare two different vintage jeweling tools: the Horia Tool and the Seitz Tool. If you're thinking of buying either of these please consider reading through the comments below beforehand for additional insights from viewers!
TLDR: I recommend the Seitz Tool over the Horia Tool - in particular the 4mm/4mm Seitz tool (Seitz also made 4mm/3mm versions, where 3mm was the size of the stump receptacle and 4mm on the pump pushers!) The Seitz Tool does everything the Horia tool does and can also be used to enlarge jewel holes which may be necessary from time to time. If you do buy a Horia Tool used, I recommend the versions that use 4mm diameter pushers (the punch parts that fit in the top of the tool) over the versions that use 3mm pushers because the 4mm pushers can be used in either the 4mm Horia Tool or the Seitz Tool.
If you can't afford a new version of either tool and there are no used bargains available this 4mm/4mm Horia clone is inexpensive and a way to get started (affiliate link):
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DC1...
In case you're interested here's a link to the AliExpress Eakins microscope that I use product page (affiliate link):
s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_DBX...
My videos are for entertainment and educational purposes only. Critical / corrective comments and links to resources including other watchmaking channels are welcome.
#watchmaker #watchmaking #restoration #horia #seitz #howto 
Развлечения
Correction: in the still image at 4:53 the pump pusher labeled # 120, (1.15mm diameter) is actually # 220, (2.15 mm diameter). I bought the # 220 and # 240 for the incabloc setting in the ETA 2783. The point of that image is that you can do a lot with just a few pushers and stumps (also called stakes, and also called anvils). The new full sets of pushers and anvils from Horia / Bergeon cost hundreds of dollars. If you only have the base Horia Tool I suggest just buying the two smaller pushers #70 (0.65mm diameter) and # 100 (0.95mm diameter) and the inexpensive Bergeon No. 30520 set of 4 stakes rather than an expensive set of ten or more sizes in 0.1mm increments. The most common jewels in movements from the 50's to the present can be removed and set with the # 70 and the # 100 pump pushers.
Also, I show myself using the wrong Incabloc pusher at 6:12. It still worked but that pusher should have been larger to fit the outer diameter of the setting better. And that's an actual Incabloc pusher in the Seitz tool. I had the correct one in the set, I just used the wrong one.This shows again (by accident) that the tool fitting perfectly is nice, but if you're careful you can often use a tool (pusher or anvil) that's not the exact diameter. One can certainly argue that using the perfect tool is better, and I totally agree. But these tools are expensive, and it's important to not let not having all the perfect tools stop you from practicing with what you do have. I cover this in detail in a soon to be released video about changing an Incabloc setting.
Thanks for this great review. I have a Seitz and now I know why I don't need a Horia.
Thanks for your comment! I agree!
1 1.5 2 2.5 are for reducing hole sizes on main plates and 12 and 18 are for altering the depths of pallet staffs in relation to the escape wheel
Thanks! Could you tell if the correct stumps occupy those positions in the kit? Everything had spilled out when I received it.
I have an older Seitz tool and the pushers are 4mm and the anvils are 3mm so you have to watch out if looking for a tool. The older tools also have a different adjustment knob at the top. I also have the Chinese clone of the Horia (all 4mm) which is surprising quality for the price.
Me too, I plan on getting a horia clone as well
Wow! That's super interesting! It seems that everyone eventually kind of settled on 4/4, not because of the Chinese Horia clones but more from the Incabloc sets being newer (relatively speaking) and as far as I could find only being made in 4/4. If that's true, the advice to newcomers should probably be try to hold out for 4/4 in Horia or Seitz tools, and maybe buy a Horia clone first to get started with something inexpensive that works?
That would be my take Dayton, I think we have a similar thing to 6mm vs 8mm watchmaker lathes, 6mm collets are just less available I suspect it will be the same for 3mm jewelling tools as the industry converges on 4/4mm as the standard
I used a 1956 made Seitz for reaming/pushing for a few years before I bought a complete Favorite set. Everything about the Favorite is better, especially the reamer design, which is five blade. I still use the Seitz on occasion. But, for serious work, it's Favorite and Horia.
Super interesting! Thanks for sharing this. I didn't even know that Favorite made a jeweling tool. I was suspicious about the two blade reamer the moment I saw it: easy to make, but not so great in terns of self-centering.
Yes, the Favorite reamers are great for staying centered. I will still use the Seitz reamers to "upright," or center a hole that is worn to one side. Easy to do because of the half-round design of the Seitz reamers, which only cut at one point in the circle. Typically, the mainplate barrel arbor hole is only hole that needs this done. And I ream them so I can place a jewel. I think most people just use a staking set to reduce the hole. I prefer to jewel.
I really appreciate your time and energy (besides the cost point) you put into your amazing videos....thanks again
Thank you my friend! They could be much better. As I get better at watchmaking I hope that they will get better.
No, you were not going too fast… I think your pacing was perfect! Lots of great information, and the advice someone needs to make an informed purchase. 👏🏼
Thanks Mike! Our conversation about this prior to making this video helped me strike a balance between general information for viewers that have an interest in how the tools work but will never buy one and someone about to make a buying decision. I'm glad you feel it worked because you helped me figure that out!
A very informative video. Thank you
Thanks Darryll. I was just trying to share my experience as an amateur. Your comment reminded me that I should be more diligent about sharing other resources for viewers that are interested in going deeper. This video by Alex Hamilton is the same comparison from an actual professional's perspective: ruclips.net/video/CIqQcVLgtB0/видео.html
Thank you 🙏
No, thank you! 🙏🏼 😂😂😂
thats my tool for years now the Seitz i love it... i have the horia but its more a prop on my desk .
Ha! I love it! Horia tool as a prop! I also still love the Horia tool, both as a prop and also the simplicity and feel of it! 😂😂😂 I will still use mine when I can!
i know the day will come that i need it and it is my most loved prop i clean it every week haha !! conversation prop people always walk to it and ask about it @@IMakeWatches
Wow! You really got a super nice Seitz set Dayton! I was so happy you showed eBay, because it's a shitshow. People asking ridiculous prices for old sets in terrible shape, and those jewel gauges might as well be gold bars. Assuming you found yours on Ricardo? I am just waiting for you to get the full motorized lathe and a polishing setup going too. 😁 BTW, saw your Magnum video on the other platform, that workbench is awesome!
Thanks Turbo! You're right about Ebay. Those individual Seitz pushers for $25 each when brand new ones are $8 is another example of that that I forgot to point out. The only caveat is that if you love vintage and you're trying to restore a complete vintage set with all vintage pushers it's nice to be able to get vintage parts. On the one hand it's a rip off, but on the other hand it reflects the growing market for vintage tools, and it's kind of nice that there's such an interest in vintage tools now. I'll do a short about what I paid for the Seitz set I bought (which I did buy in a no-reserve auction on ricardo). I didn't get into that in this video because it was a lot (not a lot of money but an auction lot) and to understand lot pricing it's important to go through the whole lot piece by piece. And this was already an information dense (amidst the rambling) video.
The older Seitz 3/4mm has not the micrometer screw possibility
Thanks! Yes, it seems that 4/4 is the good one all around!
Hi Dayton, funnily enough I have a Seitz setup with 4mm pushers and 3mm anvils. I intend to get the 4/4mm horia clone as I have a set of incabloc pushers/anvils that are 4/4mm
Hi Tom! Thank god I didn't know that before releasing this video! That knowledge could easily have sent me into a 3mm - 4mm infinite loop! 😂😂😂 All of those Horia clones on Aliexpress that I have seen have contradictory details as to whether they are 3/4 or 4/4. They say 4/4 in one place and 3/4 in other (in the same listing, for a single tool). I decided that they are probably all 4/4 but I didn't invest in finding out. If you get one (or if someone reading this comment has one already) please let me know if it's for sure 4/4.
There is someone in the comments around the same time as me who has the same as me and also has the clone horia
Its 4/4@@IMakeWatches
Love this one :D
Thanks!
Really important information.jeweling tools are the difference between fixing a watch and not being able to fix a watch. That jewel plate is an expensive tool. ive been contemplating making one myself. and you really need to be careful with ebay tools.