You are welcome. When you don’t set this right, it causes all kinds of problems and it is a pain in the butt to get to after you assemble the engine. Thanks for watching!
Ah thanks.. one of those long nights and not realizing i can simply move the retainer 😆 I have a related question if you have an opinion. Was pulling my parts out getting ready for assembly ( i have an MSD billet distributor that originally came with steel gear so i had to switch to iron for flat tappet.. actually ended up saving money buying the mustang distributor and then selling the brand new steel gear lol ) I was able to line up the holes from gear to shaft amazingly enough but those gears come with only one hole so still had to work through.. but definitely was going through the original shaft hole. It came out to being about 3.976 ( spec to thrust collar is supposed to be max of like 4.005 minimum of 3.996 .. im wondering if being .020" off is enough to eat the gears or any damage? but then i thought about it and realized thats where MSD put the hole so... i just dont remember if a steel gear is identical in height and hole location to iron is something to consider... im just not sure i can really use my 12 ton press THAT precise and bump it by .020 to get to the minimum... Was a lot of work to figure out because the MSD uses the shaft size of a 351W ... took a while to get the right MSD part number with the right ID. thanks for any help
Every one of those mustang distributors that I have taken apart has the hole for the roll pin drilled at an angle, so if I ever swap gears I drill a new hole through the shaft at a right angle to the original specifically for the new gear. When doing that, I always take it to the machine shop next door because they have the equipment to do it precisely. That is the accepted procedure for a gear swap. Also, they normally used a coiled roll pin where most “box of roll pins” kits you will find included only the slotted or split pin style. McMaster Carr is a source for the correct coiled pins if you need them. Besides eating a gear, you also have to be worried about binding the gear with the block if it is out the wrong way, so if the front cover is off, check the clearance between the bottom of the gear and the block through the front of the engine.
@@tecmotiondyno So here's what I found out... basically MSD says one thing and Ford Performance another. So MSD has like a spec and when i called them and asked " so is the gear supposed to make contact with the block in a static position?" theyre like were only considered with our spec so if you run that you should be okay. Basically I pressed my gear like .010" further down... and I just bored out the original hole because i dont know where my cobalt bits are to make a new hole. I got it to be a really nice press fit definitely not going anywhere.. roll pins on Ford are just insurance anyway. But what I found out with Ford is in a static position where you have the distributor just sitting there with the shaft lowered ( without oil pump drive shaft) it SHOULD be touching the block I guess but should have a certain amount of play. Then with the gear being held in place you lift up on the distributor body to make sure there is at least .05" of travel it can make. I was looking to see info on performance like if less touching was better but obviously the cam will grab the gear during load and pull it down and thats what the thrust surface is for in the block.. SO now my gear was touching the block at static and if i hold it against the block i can move the body up .05" while still touching. Im sure its more forgiving being an iron on iron gear than bronze but I should be good to go now!
I put mine in backwards and I knew it was backwards but I didn't realize the ring could be lowered and the pump wouldn't seat flush. I gotta go back in anyways to change the new Melling high flow pump because it takes a full 10 seconds on cold start before the pump builds any pressure. The pressure is great but hearing my lifters tap for 10 seconds when I start the engine is driving me crazy.
Gonna double check my work and probably try a different pump. Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? It takes 10 full seconds only after sitting a few hours and I double checked with a mechanical gauge.
That can easily be the problem. If it is, you can usually apply enough downward pressure on the distributor to move it down. If it is a 351W, sometimes the TFI style distributor shaft is too long and has to be shortened slightly - 3/16” or so.
got a used arp shaft, can I use my o.e clip from my orignal pump? seemed like the clip moved way to easily and would slide off. also at the tip of the oil pump with the shaft in near the distributor end....should there be a wobble room? the shaft into oil pump turns and feels free/snug like it would pump good oil..
The retainer ring needs to be on there in a way that it will not easily move up and down the shaft or it will defeat the purpose of the retainer. There should be a small amount of up and down play in the assembly with the oil pump and distributor installed, but not enough that the shaft can actually disengage from the oil pump before the retainer stops it from moving up further.
Now I nervous. I'm in the process of swapping long blocks and just installed my oil pump. I just swapped over the shaft and distributor. Now it's ready to go back into the truck now you have me nervous
My hope is that guys watch this before they put it all together, not to make you nervous after you put it together. Still, better to know about things that COULD be wrong if you run into issues. I know that I dread having to pull the distributor on customer cars in case the oil pump shaft drops into the pan!
An extendable magnet is your best bet. With an aftermarket shaft, the center of the shaft is round so there is no way for the ring to pull all the way off the driveshaft and fall into the bottom of the pan, but the stocker is hex the whole way, so this could happen I guess. I've never actually seen this particular issue so I am not sure what circumstances caused it, but I would also be concerned that the ring was either stuck to the underside of the block casting where the shaft goes through or was resting on top of the oil pump drive. These are even more difficult scenarios to deal with. In theory, the pickup screen should prevent it from getting sucked back into the system if you just left it, and a magnetic drain plug might eventually bring it out at an oil change, but I hate to think of loose metal parts left floating around in there. Good luck!
I won’t be pulling my distributor or the oil pump driveshaft. I’m hoping if I just remove the oil pump the oil pump driveshaft will stay locked in place in the bottom distributor?
The oil pump driveshaft is not locked in place anywhere. The retainer ring is the only thing that limits its upward movement and needs to be set to a point that will prevent it from pulling out of the pump when lifting the distributor from the top as the shaft typically sticks to the distributor. Likewise, when you pull the oil pump from the bottom it will typically come out with the oil pump. If it does come out with your pump, there’s no magic in putting it back in, but if you use a new shaft you need to get the retainer ring set correctly.
Just put a rebuilt 5.0 in my 86 coupe. I have two distributors here. Both of them drop in the old engine without issue, and both come up about an 1/8” short of seating against the lower intake on the new engine. (Same distributors) I guess this is my issue! Some people are saying on the forums to just tap it lightly in place. Not so sure I want to do that…. Out it comes I guess.
The retainer ring can sit too high on the shaft and prevent distributor seating which is why you need to check both ends of it during assembly. You would probably get away with tapping the distributor shaft down on it but by the time you are at that stage you are also engaged with the cam gear so there’s always a chance you could screw something up. I was kind of hoping this video would help guys avoid the situation you are in, but maybe it at least helps to understand it.
@@tecmotiondyno definitely helped me understand it. I bought the motor without knowing how it would’ve been installed. If I ever do one myself I’ll be sure to follow your steps. 👍🏻 great video. Thanks for the reply.
Dang first time putting a v8 engine together, just put oil pump and oil pan on but see I forgot this dang rod under some other parts on the bench, I have to drop the oil pan right ?
Thank you for this video. I had no idea where to set that
You are welcome. When you don’t set this right, it causes all kinds of problems and it is a pain in the butt to get to after you assemble the engine. Thanks for watching!
Very good video, informative, short and to the point.
man you saved my life,, thanks a looooottttttt!!!!
You are welcome. If you do that ring wrong or omit it, a 5 minute job can turn into an engine pull, so glad to be of help!
Really good point, excellent detail. Nice work
Thanks! I hope it helped you out, and thanks for watching.
This was amazing, it answered all my questions! Thank you!
You’re welcome. Glad it helped!
Had no clue about this thanks!
Setting this part up right is frequently overlooked. Thanks for watching!
Ah thanks.. one of those long nights and not realizing i can simply move the retainer 😆 I have a related question if you have an opinion. Was pulling my parts out getting ready for assembly ( i have an MSD billet distributor that originally came with steel gear so i had to switch to iron for flat tappet.. actually ended up saving money buying the mustang distributor and then selling the brand new steel gear lol ) I was able to line up the holes from gear to shaft amazingly enough but those gears come with only one hole so still had to work through.. but definitely was going through the original shaft hole. It came out to being about 3.976 ( spec to thrust collar is supposed to be max of like 4.005 minimum of 3.996 .. im wondering if being .020" off is enough to eat the gears or any damage? but then i thought about it and realized thats where MSD put the hole so... i just dont remember if a steel gear is identical in height and hole location to iron is something to consider... im just not sure i can really use my 12 ton press THAT precise and bump it by .020 to get to the minimum... Was a lot of work to figure out because the MSD uses the shaft size of a 351W ... took a while to get the right MSD part number with the right ID. thanks for any help
Every one of those mustang distributors that I have taken apart has the hole for the roll pin drilled at an angle, so if I ever swap gears I drill a new hole through the shaft at a right angle to the original specifically for the new gear. When doing that, I always take it to the machine shop next door because they have the equipment to do it precisely. That is the accepted procedure for a gear swap. Also, they normally used a coiled roll pin where most “box of roll pins” kits you will find included only the slotted or split pin style. McMaster Carr is a source for the correct coiled pins if you need them. Besides eating a gear, you also have to be worried about binding the gear with the block if it is out the wrong way, so if the front cover is off, check the clearance between the bottom of the gear and the block through the front of the engine.
@@tecmotiondyno So here's what I found out... basically MSD says one thing and Ford Performance another. So MSD has like a spec and when i called them and asked " so is the gear supposed to make contact with the block in a static position?" theyre like were only considered with our spec so if you run that you should be okay. Basically I pressed my gear like .010" further down... and I just bored out the original hole because i dont know where my cobalt bits are to make a new hole. I got it to be a really nice press fit definitely not going anywhere.. roll pins on Ford are just insurance anyway. But what I found out with Ford is in a static position where you have the distributor just sitting there with the shaft lowered ( without oil pump drive shaft) it SHOULD be touching the block I guess but should have a certain amount of play. Then with the gear being held in place you lift up on the distributor body to make sure there is at least .05" of travel it can make. I was looking to see info on performance like if less touching was better but obviously the cam will grab the gear during load and pull it down and thats what the thrust surface is for in the block.. SO now my gear was touching the block at static and if i hold it against the block i can move the body up .05" while still touching. Im sure its more forgiving being an iron on iron gear than bronze but I should be good to go now!
If you want an old school dual point distributor on a 5.0 for retro sake get a longer pump drive (about 1/4" longer)
Great video
Thanks! I just saw a guy on one of the Foxbody facebook groups with one of the problems this video is meant to help with!
I put mine in backwards and I knew it was backwards but I didn't realize the ring could be lowered and the pump wouldn't seat flush. I gotta go back in anyways to change the new Melling high flow pump because it takes a full 10 seconds on cold start before the pump builds any pressure. The pressure is great but hearing my lifters tap for 10 seconds when I start the engine is driving me crazy.
10 seconds to oil pressure sure sounds like something is wrong even with a standard pressure pump.
Gonna double check my work and probably try a different pump. Do you have any ideas what could be wrong? It takes 10 full seconds only after sitting a few hours and I double checked with a mechanical gauge.
Have the ARP shaft and an MSD TFI. Shaft was installed at the machine shop. MSD sits high and won’t seat. Retainer ring too high?
That can easily be the problem. If it is, you can usually apply enough downward pressure on the distributor to move it down. If it is a 351W, sometimes the TFI style distributor shaft is too long and has to be shortened slightly - 3/16” or so.
got a used arp shaft, can I use my o.e clip from my orignal pump? seemed like the clip moved way to easily and would slide off.
also at the tip of the oil pump with the shaft in near the distributor end....should there be a wobble room?
the shaft into oil pump turns and feels free/snug like it would pump good oil..
The retainer ring needs to be on there in a way that it will not easily move up and down the shaft or it will defeat the purpose of the retainer. There should be a small amount of up and down play in the assembly with the oil pump and distributor installed, but not enough that the shaft can actually disengage from the oil pump before the retainer stops it from moving up further.
Now I nervous. I'm in the process of swapping long blocks and just installed my oil pump. I just swapped over the shaft and distributor. Now it's ready to go back into the truck now you have me nervous
My hope is that guys watch this before they put it all together, not to make you nervous after you put it together. Still, better to know about things that COULD be wrong if you run into issues. I know that I dread having to pull the distributor on customer cars in case the oil pump shaft drops into the pan!
Best way to get the ring or rod out if it drops in pan? Should i just leave it in?
An extendable magnet is your best bet. With an aftermarket shaft, the center of the shaft is round so there is no way for the ring to pull all the way off the driveshaft and fall into the bottom of the pan, but the stocker is hex the whole way, so this could happen I guess. I've never actually seen this particular issue so I am not sure what circumstances caused it, but I would also be concerned that the ring was either stuck to the underside of the block casting where the shaft goes through or was resting on top of the oil pump drive. These are even more difficult scenarios to deal with. In theory, the pickup screen should prevent it from getting sucked back into the system if you just left it, and a magnetic drain plug might eventually bring it out at an oil change, but I hate to think of loose metal parts left floating around in there. Good luck!
@ same thank you. I’ll try this
I won’t be pulling my distributor or the oil pump driveshaft. I’m hoping if I just remove the oil pump the oil pump driveshaft will stay locked in place in the bottom distributor?
The oil pump driveshaft is not locked in place anywhere. The retainer ring is the only thing that limits its upward movement and needs to be set to a point that will prevent it from pulling out of the pump when lifting the distributor from the top as the shaft typically sticks to the distributor. Likewise, when you pull the oil pump from the bottom it will typically come out with the oil pump. If it does come out with your pump, there’s no magic in putting it back in, but if you use a new shaft you need to get the retainer ring set correctly.
Just put a rebuilt 5.0 in my 86 coupe. I have two distributors here. Both of them drop in the old engine without issue, and both come up about an 1/8” short of seating against the lower intake on the new engine. (Same distributors) I guess this is my issue! Some people are saying on the forums to just tap it lightly in place. Not so sure I want to do that…. Out it comes I guess.
The retainer ring can sit too high on the shaft and prevent distributor seating which is why you need to check both ends of it during assembly. You would probably get away with tapping the distributor shaft down on it but by the time you are at that stage you are also engaged with the cam gear so there’s always a chance you could screw something up. I was kind of hoping this video would help guys avoid the situation you are in, but maybe it at least helps to understand it.
@@tecmotiondyno definitely helped me understand it. I bought the motor without knowing how it would’ve been installed. If I ever do one myself I’ll be sure to follow your steps. 👍🏻 great video. Thanks for the reply.
Dang first time putting a v8 engine together, just put oil pump and oil pan on but see I forgot this dang rod under some other parts on the bench, I have to drop the oil pan right ?
Unfortunately, yes. You will thank yourself for doing the careful setup procedure that I outline here as well.
Thank you for the reply..!!!
That a good tip....
Oknowbody
🔔😎
👍Thanks.
(Ref: KASL)
You are welcome. I have a video on setting the valvetrain up coming soon as well, and some cool feature cars, so stay tuned!
you didnt show putting the rod in
Funny, I have a friend that showed me what happens when you don’t have that ring, right before going to a car show. We didn’t make it….
Yeah, if you don’t do this right, a 5 minute job can turn into an engine pull.