My only grievance and pet peeve about this topic is the misconception that monks using ki is magic tapped or deriving from the weave... when it's not. Ki is a completely different kind of energy that's innate to all that can be used to not only perform superhuman physical feats but also magical effects without using magic. That's why monks are my favorite class, most especially the four elements monk, though I use whatever homebrew versions don't depict them as any percentage of a spellcaster
the way work it in my mind is that monks aren't the only ones who use KI. they're the only one that focuses on it. when a wizard manipulates the weave, they're using mental Ki. when the fighter uses second wind to heal, they're channeling their physical Ki. the monk simply understands Ki better than any other person.
TLDR: I love monk, but 5e monks are lacking, so I tried to make them better for my campaign and I posted 2/3 of them online for anyone to use. My late uncle always sang the praise of the monk in the early years of me playing the game, so I’ve always been intrigued by the whole aesthetic and the “death punch” ability he always spoke about. When I finally got the chance to make one for my friends campaign, it died in the first adventure. Sometime after I became a Forever DM so I rarely got to play. Then when I finally got the chance to play and chose to try monk again in my lil bros campaign a few years ago, then he died in a random gnoll encounter after the 2nd adventure (lvl 3). My biggest gripe was Ki point system, because no other class was so limited by a resource. Like the closest is Sorcerer points, but a Sorc without points can still cast spells. I had an immense amount of loyalty to the Monk class, but its lacking mechanics made it very hard to love so I decided to do something about it, at least for my homebrew campaign world. I made three homebrew monk Ways at three very different times in my DnD DM journey: Way of the Prime Predator (using the bond between you and the natural world to adapt ones body to mimic bestial/monstrous traits), Way of the Mystic (using the connection between Ki and Magic to protect one’s self and one’s comrades from dangerous magic by both limiting and heightening magical potential) and the Way of Iron (conditioning one’s body through grueling “qi gong”-esque training to turn one’s limbs into living weapons and one’s body into living armor). The first two are in the DnD Beyond Homebrew Archives (Way of Iron coming soon) so feel free to check them out and hopefully it helps you learn to love Monks as much as I do! 🤗💙
This is the concept of the monk that I have in my mind. Someone who has dedicated themselves to perfecting their very self such that they have become more than human. I've been trying my hand at my own redesign of the monk, and the first thought I had was that it would be thematically interesting to have the character break some of the rules of 5e to represent this "perfecting the self beyond human limits" idea.
I think the monk should be interpreted more of a person on the path to be an immoral in daoist/buddhist mythology then "the weeb class". It's not just learning to punch and kick really hard and uses legally distinct magic called ki. It's about cultivation of one's own spiritual essence and using that to transcend mortal limits. So much so that these characters would go on to challenge and succeed gods, especially to remove currupt or false gods if they where good enough at mastering the self. A quick example of this is how Goku from dragonball keeps meeting different people who are 'gods' (Kami, King Kai, the outer Kai's, the gods of destruction etc.) then becomes stronger then them by training by pushing himself constantly. Another concept to think for monks that is at odds with d&d is that the self is the weapon, and physical material is merely an extension. Like in crouching tiger hidden dragon, there is a thief who steals a magic sword called the green dynasty. It's an amazing sword that has no earthy rival, but the main character Master Li just picks up a stick and is more than able to beat the theif in a dual. The real weapon is Master Li. And that is not the fantasy that can be fulfilled with a d&d loot table handing over a random magic weapon. I think your on to something with the name "monk" is too limiting for this concept. There should be something more like a ki based spell casting class that has a bunch of powers based on ki use but isn't that good at a straight up fight and have the traditional monk be way more martial focused and ki power should supplement a trained physique. Kinda think the difference between how yoda uses the force and normal jedi who fight with weapons. Monk is my favorite class, even though I think that wotc are terrible at making the class actually do what it's supposed to. The main problem is that they're trying to get one class to have all of the known tropes of East Asian myths and trying to force them to fit. And the main fantasy of the class is in opposition to the main way the game can reward you (i.e. armor, weapons, magic items). I wish they just weren't so much of an afterthought.
I think the best way to capture the original "spiritual" premise of the Monk within DnD mechanics is to build the entire class around a Vow of Poverty (which is a trait you can get in 5e but is not exclusive to the Monk). They get unarmed fighting skills and innate magic powers BECAUSE they are unable to use weapons and magical items. It also means that while other players can be motivated to "kill the enemy and take their stuff" the Monk must forego the "take their stuff" bit, forcing them to fight only in the name of a Cause, which fits the image of an Eastern warrior monk quite well. (In theory at least. In reality they probably fight because their player is a bloodthirsty murderhobo who just wants to kill things and doesn't actually need a reason. Maybe they can have additional codes of conduct similar to a paladin or cleric.)
Honestly, it'd be a cool idea for monastic traditions to have a code of conduct of sorts and you get stripped of your ki and some of your other abilities if you break these vows enough times.
Monks in my world are a little different than normal monks, flavor wise. Here is a quick run through. In my world, mortals have souls, in which the energy that comes from the soul and courses through your body is your spirit. When your spirit goes outside of your body, it forms your aura which surrounds the body and the mortals emotions can heavily influence their aura since their emotions are so closely ties to their soul and spirit. Aura can quickly fade, grow, and shift based on the health & strength of your soul and the state of your emotions. This is the status quo. Monks differ from the norm is 1 way: They don't have auras. Their training, lifestyle, and spirituality prevents their spirit from being able to leave their body normally, so their spirit becomes more dense and in much greater volume within their bodies because it can't escape the body like it normally would. For the monk, they rename their spirit into ki because they can use their spirit/ki to do superhuman acts that otherwise wouldn't be possible since most mortals aren't able to use the energy created by their souls to do anything at all. On this note, my paladins are the only other class to differ from the norm as well. Since they swore an oath and brought divine power into themselves, not being properly blessed and chosen like clerics who undergo proper training for such an ordeal, their divine connection allows their spirit to be much more potent since divine energy is mixing with the paladins spirit, so when the paladin spirit transitions into their aura, this supercharges their aura allowing it to have greater effect on others, reach further, as well as other effects as the paladin levels up, increasing the connection to the divine power within themselves.
From that earlier part of the description, it kind of gave me RWBY vibes since they kind of play with a similar concept. Living being that have a soul can learn how to project it outward to form a personal force field of sorts, perform superhuman feats of strength, and use magic of a sort. Heck, it can even be measured like an HP meter in a video game in universe...measuring the strength of one's soul...what a novel idea XD
Personally I think that the Monk is a strange mix of magical and non-magical, to the point in which it feels a bit out of place since it's pretending to be one of the extremes while not actually being one of the extremes If it was towards one of the extremes, I think it would fit a lot better in the D&D world. Personally I wish they embraced the superhuman element of them a lot more and created a more superhuman martial class which would actually rival casters with some more potent abilities than just attacking.
@tlemgr I think Monk does fit in most campaign worlds, my main argument was that monk when being played by a player feels like it's trying to fulfill two conflicting fantasies. One of a more superhuman character, and the other of a mundane martial. These two don't mix well and result in a class which feels a bit weird to play
Honestly what you're describing kinda sounds like Shadowrun Adepts. I've always found 5e's chargen incredibly constraining when it comes to options tbh. Then again, this just might be my preference towards skill based systems rather than class based ones.
Seriously, these recent videos with your wife are killing me, lol. You're both adorable. I love going beyond the stereotypical expectation of any class. For my Talenta Plains Halfling (Eberron), I could have gone the expected route and made her a Ranger or Fighter or Barbarian, maybe even Druid. But I went Monk, and not because I wanted her to have trained in a monastery. I found a homebrewed subclass that made her bow a monk weapon and made her a deadly, tribal assassin who is just super chill, lol. She kinda does have a bit of the intended spirituality, revealing ancestor and animal spirits, but she had the kind of stillness and dedication I saw a monk having and kinda just wanted those sweet, sweet flurry of blows that I can now do with her bow instead of her fist. It's like a tribal machine gun, lol. But delivered by one with ice in their veins and hidden by shadows. Yeah, she's pretty cool.
As a new player, it took me basically the whole campaign to realize that a monk, who is basically just good at hitting things, is not supposed to be a front line fighter. They’re supposed to get in, punch, and then run. This led to my monk being constantly unconscious.
Most recent thing I did that I'm proud of: I've been speedrunning college as a returning student. Not finished yet, but I'm halfway through my degree that I started earlier this year.
Monks use a different magic system than casters. Casters pull their power from the weave of the universe, while Monks (possibly all martials) learn to draw out magical forces from deep within themselves. Casters can change the world, while Monks can change themselves.
Ooooooh, I like this idea^^. Kind of reminds me of how aether is supposed to work in FF14. All adventures use this natural magical energy source, but use it in different ways. Our martial equivalents use them to perform superhuman feats of strength, speed, and durability. On the other end of the spectrum, our casters draw on the ether to produce effects more in line with blasters and healers. Wouldn't mind playing a TTRPG system that worked like that.
My favorite pet peeve with all ttrpgs its this idea that martials shouldn't have too much magic or have their abilities make some short of "sense compared with the peak of strength of our world" when in reality they live in a world where magic its one of the fundamental forces of the freaking universe, they having no magical qualities makes as much sense as an object no gravitational pull. In fact some of the most interesting subclasses of martials its them doing magical things through a different path than mages or sorcerers. A couple of the anime's that in my opinion showed this better (not perfectly) its fairy tail (where magic =\= smart) and negima where there its magic (shaping the fundamental energy outside of you [with a limit of course]) an ki shaping your fundamental energy. Tl;DR let the martials be "supernatural " without worrying about realism you are playing a game where someone can hit you for 99% of you life and sleep it off.
Your definition of a monk fits my current character WAAAY better than a spiritually guided warrior does. She has a negative religion score. She has conversed with deities without thinking they were any more special than some badass rando she encountered. Ya know what's guiding her? COOLNESS. She has gone through training montage after training montage just to break through her mortal limits to wield coolness itself as her life force and weapon.
Sounds like your making the case that the Monk is a melee sorcerer. Just, instead of spellcasting, the magic is augmenting their bodies. Also, Grung Monk is an epic win so the frogs at the end rightfully stole the show.
I think monk could’ve been used to fill the thematic niche psions and psychic warriors had in 3.5 (idk anything about 4e). Ki is like innate energy that is mastered and psionic energy in psychic warriors is somewhat similar. I just really miss psionics that aren’t just reflavored magic :(
@@Miguel-bk3yo I don’t like 5e psionics simply because they are no different then magic aside from the flavor. Atleast in 3.5, they had a different system separate from magic, even if it was needlessly complicated. The psionic subclasses in 5e are okay i guess, but not nearly as good.
I actually find "Punchy Monks" disappointing. Monks are not Gym Bros or bodybuilders! Martial arts are a state of mind that rely far more on learning about physiology and psychology than they do about raw physicality and gritty hustling. The push ups, 10,000 perfect strikes and the sparring aren't just training to hit harder, they're actually a form of meditation that is meant to teach awareness of the physical space around you and to teach you what parts of the world to shut out and when and how it is appropriate. This doesn't just apply to the hand-to-hand martial arts either, it extends through a lot of your duelling-based Western martial arts, such as swordsmanship, cane fighting and dagger work. I don't like the new flavour of monk. Tastes too much like manosphere.
If people want to play a "brawler" or "pugilist" they should really just be playing a fighter or barbarian with the unarmed fightimg style. The monk was never meant fit tjst role either in flavor or mechanics. Trying to turn monk into that robs the world of a unique facet to its fantasy in favor of a redundant second fiddle to the more optomized martial classes.
My only grievance and pet peeve about this topic is the misconception that monks using ki is magic tapped or deriving from the weave... when it's not. Ki is a completely different kind of energy that's innate to all that can be used to not only perform superhuman physical feats but also magical effects without using magic. That's why monks are my favorite class, most especially the four elements monk, though I use whatever homebrew versions don't depict them as any percentage of a spellcaster
the way work it in my mind is that monks aren't the only ones who use KI. they're the only one that focuses on it. when a wizard manipulates the weave, they're using mental Ki. when the fighter uses second wind to heal, they're channeling their physical Ki. the monk simply understands Ki better than any other person.
It's magic, it's just not derived from the weave.
The weave is only in faerun. No other setting has the weave.
I agree. The Weave is specifically arcane magic and exclusive to the Forgotten Realms and ki is decidedly not arcane.
This. The elemental disciplines are one of the coolest ideas out of 5e
"Ever since you were a little girl you've excelled at the physical side of bending but completely ignored the spiritual side."
TLDR: I love monk, but 5e monks are lacking, so I tried to make them better for my campaign and I posted 2/3 of them online for anyone to use.
My late uncle always sang the praise of the monk in the early years of me playing the game, so I’ve always been intrigued by the whole aesthetic and the “death punch” ability he always spoke about. When I finally got the chance to make one for my friends campaign, it died in the first adventure. Sometime after I became a Forever DM so I rarely got to play. Then when I finally got the chance to play and chose to try monk again in my lil bros campaign a few years ago, then he died in a random gnoll encounter after the 2nd adventure (lvl 3). My biggest gripe was Ki point system, because no other class was so limited by a resource. Like the closest is Sorcerer points, but a Sorc without points can still cast spells. I had an immense amount of loyalty to the Monk class, but its lacking mechanics made it very hard to love so I decided to do something about it, at least for my homebrew campaign world. I made three homebrew monk Ways at three very different times in my DnD DM journey: Way of the Prime Predator (using the bond between you and the natural world to adapt ones body to mimic bestial/monstrous traits), Way of the Mystic (using the connection between Ki and Magic to protect one’s self and one’s comrades from dangerous magic by both limiting and heightening magical potential) and the Way of Iron (conditioning one’s body through grueling “qi gong”-esque training to turn one’s limbs into living weapons and one’s body into living armor). The first two are in the DnD Beyond Homebrew Archives (Way of Iron coming soon) so feel free to check them out and hopefully it helps you learn to love Monks as much as I do! 🤗💙
This is the concept of the monk that I have in my mind. Someone who has dedicated themselves to perfecting their very self such that they have become more than human.
I've been trying my hand at my own redesign of the monk, and the first thought I had was that it would be thematically interesting to have the character break some of the rules of 5e to represent this "perfecting the self beyond human limits" idea.
I think the monk should be interpreted more of a person on the path to be an immoral in daoist/buddhist mythology then "the weeb class". It's not just learning to punch and kick really hard and uses legally distinct magic called ki. It's about cultivation of one's own spiritual essence and using that to transcend mortal limits. So much so that these characters would go on to challenge and succeed gods, especially to remove currupt or false gods if they where good enough at mastering the self.
A quick example of this is how Goku from dragonball keeps meeting different people who are 'gods' (Kami, King Kai, the outer Kai's, the gods of destruction etc.) then becomes stronger then them by training by pushing himself constantly.
Another concept to think for monks that is at odds with d&d is that the self is the weapon, and physical material is merely an extension. Like in crouching tiger hidden dragon, there is a thief who steals a magic sword called the green dynasty. It's an amazing sword that has no earthy rival, but the main character Master Li just picks up a stick and is more than able to beat the theif in a dual. The real weapon is Master Li. And that is not the fantasy that can be fulfilled with a d&d loot table handing over a random magic weapon.
I think your on to something with the name "monk" is too limiting for this concept. There should be something more like a ki based spell casting class that has a bunch of powers based on ki use but isn't that good at a straight up fight and have the traditional monk be way more martial focused and ki power should supplement a trained physique. Kinda think the difference between how yoda uses the force and normal jedi who fight with weapons.
Monk is my favorite class, even though I think that wotc are terrible at making the class actually do what it's supposed to. The main problem is that they're trying to get one class to have all of the known tropes of East Asian myths and trying to force them to fit. And the main fantasy of the class is in opposition to the main way the game can reward you (i.e. armor, weapons, magic items). I wish they just weren't so much of an afterthought.
Monk: What is my purpose?
Party: You stunlock the BBEG.
Monk: Oh my.... oraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraoraora... ORAAAAAA!!!
And thus, every DM quaked in fear of the monk
I think the best way to capture the original "spiritual" premise of the Monk within DnD mechanics is to build the entire class around a Vow of Poverty (which is a trait you can get in 5e but is not exclusive to the Monk). They get unarmed fighting skills and innate magic powers BECAUSE they are unable to use weapons and magical items. It also means that while other players can be motivated to "kill the enemy and take their stuff" the Monk must forego the "take their stuff" bit, forcing them to fight only in the name of a Cause, which fits the image of an Eastern warrior monk quite well.
(In theory at least. In reality they probably fight because their player is a bloodthirsty murderhobo who just wants to kill things and doesn't actually need a reason. Maybe they can have additional codes of conduct similar to a paladin or cleric.)
Honestly, it'd be a cool idea for monastic traditions to have a code of conduct of sorts and you get stripped of your ki and some of your other abilities if you break these vows enough times.
Monks in my world are a little different than normal monks, flavor wise. Here is a quick run through.
In my world, mortals have souls, in which the energy that comes from the soul and courses through your body is your spirit. When your spirit goes outside of your body, it forms your aura which surrounds the body and the mortals emotions can heavily influence their aura since their emotions are so closely ties to their soul and spirit. Aura can quickly fade, grow, and shift based on the health & strength of your soul and the state of your emotions. This is the status quo.
Monks differ from the norm is 1 way: They don't have auras. Their training, lifestyle, and spirituality prevents their spirit from being able to leave their body normally, so their spirit becomes more dense and in much greater volume within their bodies because it can't escape the body like it normally would. For the monk, they rename their spirit into ki because they can use their spirit/ki to do superhuman acts that otherwise wouldn't be possible since most mortals aren't able to use the energy created by their souls to do anything at all.
On this note, my paladins are the only other class to differ from the norm as well. Since they swore an oath and brought divine power into themselves, not being properly blessed and chosen like clerics who undergo proper training for such an ordeal, their divine connection allows their spirit to be much more potent since divine energy is mixing with the paladins spirit, so when the paladin spirit transitions into their aura, this supercharges their aura allowing it to have greater effect on others, reach further, as well as other effects as the paladin levels up, increasing the connection to the divine power within themselves.
From that earlier part of the description, it kind of gave me RWBY vibes since they kind of play with a similar concept. Living being that have a soul can learn how to project it outward to form a personal force field of sorts, perform superhuman feats of strength, and use magic of a sort. Heck, it can even be measured like an HP meter in a video game in universe...measuring the strength of one's soul...what a novel idea XD
Personally I think that the Monk is a strange mix of magical and non-magical, to the point in which it feels a bit out of place since it's pretending to be one of the extremes while not actually being one of the extremes
If it was towards one of the extremes, I think it would fit a lot better in the D&D world. Personally I wish they embraced the superhuman element of them a lot more and created a more superhuman martial class which would actually rival casters with some more potent abilities than just attacking.
@tlemgr I think Monk does fit in most campaign worlds, my main argument was that monk when being played by a player feels like it's trying to fulfill two conflicting fantasies. One of a more superhuman character, and the other of a mundane martial. These two don't mix well and result in a class which feels a bit weird to play
Honestly what you're describing kinda sounds like Shadowrun Adepts. I've always found 5e's chargen incredibly constraining when it comes to options tbh. Then again, this just might be my preference towards skill based systems rather than class based ones.
Seriously, these recent videos with your wife are killing me, lol. You're both adorable.
I love going beyond the stereotypical expectation of any class. For my Talenta Plains Halfling (Eberron), I could have gone the expected route and made her a Ranger or Fighter or Barbarian, maybe even Druid. But I went Monk, and not because I wanted her to have trained in a monastery. I found a homebrewed subclass that made her bow a monk weapon and made her a deadly, tribal assassin who is just super chill, lol. She kinda does have a bit of the intended spirituality, revealing ancestor and animal spirits, but she had the kind of stillness and dedication I saw a monk having and kinda just wanted those sweet, sweet flurry of blows that I can now do with her bow instead of her fist. It's like a tribal machine gun, lol. But delivered by one with ice in their veins and hidden by shadows. Yeah, she's pretty cool.
Never a dull moment when recording with her
As a new player, it took me basically the whole campaign to realize that a monk, who is basically just good at hitting things, is not supposed to be a front line fighter. They’re supposed to get in, punch, and then run. This led to my monk being constantly unconscious.
Most recent thing I did that I'm proud of:
I've been speedrunning college as a returning student. Not finished yet, but I'm halfway through my degree that I started earlier this year.
I'm surprised how much hate the artificer(that desperately needs re-branding) for not fitting the world when the monk is standing right there.
Monks use a different magic system than casters. Casters pull their power from the weave of the universe, while Monks (possibly all martials) learn to draw out magical forces from deep within themselves. Casters can change the world, while Monks can change themselves.
Ooooooh, I like this idea^^. Kind of reminds me of how aether is supposed to work in FF14. All adventures use this natural magical energy source, but use it in different ways. Our martial equivalents use them to perform superhuman feats of strength, speed, and durability. On the other end of the spectrum, our casters draw on the ether to produce effects more in line with blasters and healers. Wouldn't mind playing a TTRPG system that worked like that.
My favorite pet peeve with all ttrpgs its this idea that martials shouldn't have too much magic or have their abilities make some short of "sense compared with the peak of strength of our world" when in reality they live in a world where magic its one of the fundamental forces of the freaking universe, they having no magical qualities makes as much sense as an object no gravitational pull.
In fact some of the most interesting subclasses of martials its them doing magical things through a different path than mages or sorcerers.
A couple of the anime's that in my opinion showed this better (not perfectly) its fairy tail (where magic =\= smart) and negima where there its magic (shaping the fundamental energy outside of you [with a limit of course]) an ki shaping your fundamental energy.
Tl;DR let the martials be "supernatural " without worrying about realism you are playing a game where someone can hit you for 99% of you life and sleep it off.
Monk and barbarian are basically the same class
Your definition of a monk fits my current character WAAAY better than a spiritually guided warrior does. She has a negative religion score. She has conversed with deities without thinking they were any more special than some badass rando she encountered. Ya know what's guiding her? COOLNESS. She has gone through training montage after training montage just to break through her mortal limits to wield coolness itself as her life force and weapon.
Sounds like your making the case that the Monk is a melee sorcerer. Just, instead of spellcasting, the magic is augmenting their bodies.
Also, Grung Monk is an epic win so the frogs at the end rightfully stole the show.
Honestly, I'd be down for a melee "caster" idea where they augment their bodies rather than using outright spells^^
playing a monk tonight, woo
astral monk w/ stars druid
Oh now THAT is a fun concept
I think monk could’ve been used to fill the thematic niche psions and psychic warriors had in 3.5 (idk anything about 4e). Ki is like innate energy that is mastered and psionic energy in psychic warriors is somewhat similar. I just really miss psionics that aren’t just reflavored magic :(
That's exactly what monks were in 4e actually. Flavour was just "psionic punchy guy". Which worked for some, and not for others.
I've always deeply hated the flavor of psionics until the aberrant mind sorceror came along.
@@Miguel-bk3yo I don’t like 5e psionics simply because they are no different then magic aside from the flavor. Atleast in 3.5, they had a different system separate from magic, even if it was needlessly complicated. The psionic subclasses in 5e are okay i guess, but not nearly as good.
Rock Lee Maxxing
I actually find "Punchy Monks" disappointing. Monks are not Gym Bros or bodybuilders! Martial arts are a state of mind that rely far more on learning about physiology and psychology than they do about raw physicality and gritty hustling. The push ups, 10,000 perfect strikes and the sparring aren't just training to hit harder, they're actually a form of meditation that is meant to teach awareness of the physical space around you and to teach you what parts of the world to shut out and when and how it is appropriate. This doesn't just apply to the hand-to-hand martial arts either, it extends through a lot of your duelling-based Western martial arts, such as swordsmanship, cane fighting and dagger work.
I don't like the new flavour of monk. Tastes too much like manosphere.
yeah i disagree
If people want to play a "brawler" or "pugilist" they should really just be playing a fighter or barbarian with the unarmed fightimg style. The monk was never meant fit tjst role either in flavor or mechanics. Trying to turn monk into that robs the world of a unique facet to its fantasy in favor of a redundant second fiddle to the more optomized martial classes.
no
First? This has never happened before
I've been expecting you
Pugilist/monk multiclass