greetings from skall's channel, I think this was a great response to his video and we need more people responding to his content, especially his older content because I know he wants to go back and fix some things but he's worried it won't be "relevant" so any response video is a good video for him.
Skall reacted which is how i found you. I love the casual and respectful back and forth. Im a nerd for any historical arms and armor. Definitely subbing Ps if your interested in a one-on-one chat with skall for content lemme know, done some work with skall in the past and im sure he’d be interested.
One aspect of Sephiroth's Masamune that tends to be overlooked on the way to finding real-world analogues like nodachi/odachi/the ssangsudo here/etc. is that 1) the blade is extra long - usually the length of a nodachi (5-7 ft) on its own - and 2) the handle is the size/shape of a regular katana's. Both of these would make a real sword extra unwieldy, and thus no real historical sword is a _perfect_ analogue. I do think Skallagrim focused overmuch on his sword-drawing woes, and I appreciate your knowledge about historical draw methods; that behind-the-head draw was pretty slick.
I think this is just an issue of focusing on one particular style of sword. Skallagrim is clearly an European style practioner so his skill base would bias him towards the way western swords are built and their contruction. He would subconsciously apply western sword bias on the media he reviews and the masamune is a good example of that.
Masamune as it exists in the games is completely impractical to real humans, and splitting hairs on real world Nodachi drawing techniques ultimately just distracts from the point.
@@SethAbercromby I don't know that it necessarily is or that they necessarily do. While they aren't _100%_ analogous, real-world long tachi do serve the purpose of pointing out that, while the Masamune is somewhat exaggerated, it's not overly so and not to the point of unbelievability. Of the myriad fantasy weapons out there, the Masamune is among the most "could (have) exist(ed) in the real world." I think a significant part of the reason why people are focusing on Skallagrim's comments about sheathing and unsheathing such a weapon is that said comments are just the clearest demonstration of both his (self-admitted) ignorance and, more critically, how that ignorance can lead to straight up bad commentary. (He talks about the Masamune, nodachi, and katana interchangeably, and uses the nodachi as one would a katana, things he would know to distinguish if the weapons were, say, a longsword, a zweihander, and Aragorn's Anduril. I get it's a casual video with casual commentary, but even so.) Plus that behind-the-head draw IS slick as hell. 😄
@@muchluck7981 Personally I feel he just forgot that you can apply other sword techniques to a longer blade, see: Zweihänder. He treated it like you would use it like a normal length blade, and not whirl it around like a Zweihänder
I know the Long Sword that is ming influenced has reached Southeast Asia in the 16th-17th century. Apparently, In Cambodia, the long sword was used in warfare. When the Qing expelled the Ming, they headed to Vietnam, but the emperor told them they lived in the Mekong Delta. The ex-ming actually ended up living at a port in Cambodia. They ended up making their own trade center. Their sword was locally produced and it used local and Chinese material.
Yes, did you mention to just open the sheath, then cut towards the opponent, thus hurling the sheath as a projectile towards them, while you run in behind it? It is used to end him rightly.
I have no idea why the algorithm suggested this video to me, since I don't follow you or Skallagrim, but I'm glad to have seen it. Fantastic video, very informative, loved the demonstrations.
Lovely video! I also saw a video with shogo from lets ask shogo and seki sensei where they talk about really long japanese swords. And appareantly drawing them has developed into a form of performance. It was really interesting and they also showed some techniques for drawing, making it look very smooth and deceptivly easy.
Good video mate, always lovely to see this kind of swords in action, recently I saw similar exemples from Cambodia, it seems that wherever Japanese and South chinese people settled they adopted these swords.
Wow this is fascinating, I would not have guessed that such a large sword originated in use by pirates. You would think they might opt for more compact weapons, something akin to a cutlass or something of similar proportions, given the confined spaces of ships. But the area denial aspect makes total sense. Great video!
Wow, I've never seen a long habaki (or the Korean equivalent term) like that before! It reminds me of the cloth wrappings on nakamaki nodachi (中巻野太刀), supposed precursor of the nagamaki (長巻).
Nah nodachi typically have different handle to blade ratios, the ssangsudo is closer to masamune in its short handle to blade ratio. Nodachi also rarely get up to this size, whereas the ssangsudo is, as per the manuals, regularly larger than the wielder and still used in battle rather than being ceremonial swords
@@JustaBug I didn't know about those specifics of the ssangsudo! But the point I was trying to get at was that nodachi were commonly used and nobody questions their viability as a battlefield weapon.
Great explainer, mate! And I'm happy for you that Skall actually got back to you on the topic. Love that cross-discipline sharing of insights and interpretations 😁
The Chinese had something similar. It's called the ZhanMaDao, which literally means "horse cutter" and it was used in The Han Dynasty to stop cavalry charges by cutting off the horse's legs. The sword was 79 inches or 6 feet, 5 inches, so it had the range. There was also a weapon called the ChangDao (long saber) used by elite Tang Dynasty infantry. The sword was 7 feet in length and it was like a sword and a polearm.
You messed up a lot of the dynasties and common terms. The large two handed sword was used since the Han dynasty in various forms. The names Changdao is just "two handed saber" while Zhanmadao is "horse cutting saber". There's also names like Miaodao and Dandao. Regardless, the most well recorded use was in the Ming Dynasty as an answer to Nodachi/Odachi and Nagamaki wielders of the Woku forces. The longer swords were meant to duel against them or were adopted due to the effectiveness of those two handed swords. Generally they were all big 6+ ft in length, but nothing exact. Likely they were fit to the wielder. Doubled edge jians also existed since the Han dynasty in various capacities with museum examples surviving today. But the horse cutting name is a translation misinterpretation. There's no real recorded use of it in a battlefield capacity, but rather a testament to its ability to cut through a horse. They appear to mostly be used as execution swords and fit the same profiles as their European counterparts. Likewise Zhanmadao also refers to halberds in the Ming dynasty. Translations are tricky.
Great question. The ssangsudo came from the nodachi but it has a much longer blade collar (habaki on the nodachi) and also there's are far fewer nodachi in the realm of length that the manuals list the ssangsudo should be. At least in terms of ones actually used for combat. It's likely monstrously large nodachi existed (greater than wielder height) but were uncommon but because they were the ones that qi jiguang had exposure to, they were the ones that became standard in China and Korea for the ssangsudo style. There were also likely blade shape differences but due to the lack of surviving ssangsudo it's all speculation until someone finds some period historical documents proving it
@@JustaBug Thank you for your explanation! By the way, I'd like to add some info to your video, or rather say: a bit of correction. To my knowledge the nodachi was used as a battlefield weapon, in Japan when the warrior wasn't using it, it was stored on the back (possibly wrapped in). So I infer that the ssangsudo was also used in the same way. Therefore if a bandit or some kind was to attack the warrior, it would be a lot quicker (and far less deadlier) for the warrior to use a regular/shorter sword which is most likely at hand, on the hip, than to start getting it off from the back and unwrapping it.
@@SamuraiNinja_HUN not sure about back draws. I've seen art of swords been strapped on the back for transport with no concern for likelihood of use. In Korea it is unlikely the ssangsudo soldiers had another sword at their hip besides a dagger. There's one manual in China that mentions a dagger with a long sword but none about other swords and so having another sword on the hip seems to be a Japanese thing likely due to culture
@@JustaBug Oh and also in Japan, in the sengoku era, it was common even for the ashigaru (foot soldier) to carry a short sword as a secondary weapon for close combat or in case the soldier loses his primary weapon.
@Just a Bug I never knew his sword was more of a SSangsudo. Very interesting. Thank you for that. Definitely want to check out more of your videos. Question, have there ever been a sword called Kodachi? I heard the like the Wakizashi. I first knew of it from the anime Rurouni Kenshin used by the character, Shinomori Aoshi. In the dub, they explained the Kodachi was the length of a Wakizashi but with length of the Tsuka of a Katana. Want to see if you knew more about it, if it's practical, if these are still made. Thanks.
@@setokaiba200x the kodachi literally translates to small sword. It's a shorter blade than a katana and handle usually of longer proportions than you would see on a waki blade. As for the use, I'm not an expert in Japanese swords, it's not my area of interest so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't think we have any manuals or historic records of their use. So we can't be sure. They were likely carried for self defence, and could possibly have been intended for hand and a half use, like we see on some korean swords with similar blade and handle length, but that's purely speculation. There's a youtuber called Nate the Aussie who is a good friend of mine who specialises in Japanese historical martial arts and he may know more. Hope that helps and sorry for the inconclusive answer
I enjoyed this video. It's informative and concise, and I appreciate that you didn't talk trash or try to start a rivalry with Skallagrim or anything silly like that.
To be fair, I think the one Skall used was 210cm or something around there. So that is a 35cm increase, which can REALLY make it floppy. So to not make it floppy you pretty much have to make it thicker, which results in a heavier blade. Now 175cm is not a too unrealistic length, there were two handers that were that long, but they also tapered in blade thickness and had a secondary handle on top of the regular guard, so the blade was stiffer and you could also swing it faster, compremising a bit of slashing power, but Skall also made a very good point and that is it's not very good against attacks, since the torque that would be generated from striking the end of the blade would be so big it's pretty much impossible to counteract it. I think Skall was more thinking of a sword you would use while alone and something that you would carry. Now for crowd control it is actually a pretty good weapon, no one wants to come close to someone with a sword the length of a person. So if someone tried to board your ship you would certainly fend them off quite good. Although something like a spear in my opinion could do the same exact thing, and can be even longer without compromising anything since it's just meant for thrusting. But if there are like multiple bridges to your ship it would be better in that case, since one swing could defend both. But it's a pretty sick weapon not going to lie, definitely wouldn't want to get close to that. Any weapon can really work, just some a better for certain thing. Like you certainly wouldn't carry this if you were on foot, since it'd be quite cumbersome
Hello, I found your channel on this video and was surprised to see someone outside of Korea researching this subject. I watched multiple of your video and if possible I would like to discuss a few points from the previous video if that is not too much for you. thank you for the video.
When I used to do Japanese martial arts we had some Odachi/Nodachi stuff. I never got a chance to use a real one though; alas. We had the two people drawing each other’s swords method. Can’t wait to see your full interpretation.
Just a point to skallagrim here, maybe he didn't bring up that sword but looking at sephiroth's sword the blade is longer than his body and the handle is a lot shorter, maybe not completely unwieldable but not exactly optimum.
Bug thank you for this video! That behind the shoulders drawing method is something that not even considered with a large, single edged Asian sword but wow that works well & as you said lines your beautifully for an immediate cut.
Hello brother! I practice korean martial arts, and I train with a Ssangsudo myself! I've been looking for historical references of the Ssangsudo because usually I find more about 150cm long maximum, and it's really difficult for someone who doesn't know korean (yet, working on it) to find proper sources. Lovely video! I use a LK Silver Swallow Miao Dao for my Ssangsudo forms. Your videos were always really useful for me when researching sword brands mate!
Glad to hear someone else is training in the ssangsudo. The main historic reference is the ssangsudo manual in muyedobotongji and it has the specs listed which comes out to a 1.8m sword. If you want to discuss historic swordsmanship more and sources you can always shoot me questions via email or instagram though I probably reply quicker to email
@@JustaBug thanks a lot! It's been in my shop list since forever. Appreciate the help and the passion for the art. Just you know there are some practitioners that really love korean style fencing in Spain!
important thing about giant swords. Your arm span is equal to your height (give or take 5 to 10cm) so as long as the blade doesn't go higher than roughly your chin, you can unsheath it "naturaly" (accounting for closed fist)
I see Ssangsudo, I upvote. Great video mate. Quick point question, I don’t know if it’s specified in the Korean text, but for the draw over the head, does it specifically say to just drop the scabbard? I know there are some dynamic draw for long Chinese forms, and I’m wondering if this might be a situation where if your arm span is not long enough for your given blade, you can even kind of “ shoot the scabbard” off of the end of the blade since you discarding it anyway.
We are simple me. Big sword. Big thumbs up. It doesn't specifically say to drop the sheath. But the form follows on straight into two handed cuts so my interpretation is you drop the sheath. Shooting it off would probably be preferable to being caught stuck trying to draw, though I've not directly seen any manuals advocate for it. Would be keen to know if you have seen any
@@JustaBugI think Shogo has a vid where his kenjutsu sensei demonstrates a similar thing, but the opposite - shooting the odachi out of the saya. They say it’s a traditional method of their school. Edit: found it ruclips.net/video/hFVL0RzmbbI/видео.htmlsi=SGx030EjjeNTAeAb. More theatrical version of the draw form from Dan Dao Fa Xuan.
Great video! While I know how hard is to create, train and fight with such a weapon, it's great to see than we actually can have some big ass swords in reality :D
what's really funny is there are techniques for close combat with single edge swords of that length...for instance the position you were in with the sword on your shoulder and the hilt up on your right...if you bring the hilt down to your left (cutting motion) and roll the back of the sword across your chest, you can make a devastating, very powerful and fast cut that has a much closer range (like some of the chinese dao forms)
oh, that looks familiar, Lady Eboshi's bodyguard draws his sword like that in Princess Mononoke during the night raid scene. leave it to Miyazaki to get something like that correct.
Honestly, yes, swords this big can work. I don't know what Skall was thinking when things like the Zweihander and Montante exist. But imagine using a version that's closer to the original design of the Masamune, with the shorter handle and blade that's taller than Sephiroth himself (he's like at least six feet iirc).
210cm ssangsudo are documented in the manual. The shorter handle would probably make it more difficult but I can't imagine it making it difficult to the point of needing superhuman strength, especially because most of how you use these swords is momentum conservation
If i remember correct, then he said, that binding would work against you, since the blade acts as a massive lever. Or generally, that binding and redirecting such a long blade would be easy for the opponent, because of leverage. And you would have the same problems with other great swords too, just not to that extent.
You're not fighting out of the bind with these swords. It was a pretty stupid comment, because yes, trying to bind would work against you. But it'd be like saying all polearms are useless because the opponent can grab the shaft. Weapons are used based on their inherent advantages and disadvantages and the systems of use of weapons differs based on what they can do. If someone tries to bind my ssangsudo in a full swing....well good luck. It'll blast through most guards and if it doesn't it's quicker just to cut round the other side than try to engage in winning a bind. It's what every greatsword manual advocates
most depictions the sword is the same size as sephiroth with some odd shots making it larger or twice his size. and hes estimated to be 6'1" - 6'4" 193-194 cm and the handles close to a nodachi's length rather then a katanas shorter one. based on it look's like 3 of his hands would fit on it. im 5'6"-5'7" (170-173cm) and I use a odachi with a 100cm blade but I modified it to have a 11 inch (27cm) katanas handle instead of the 22 inch(55 cm) one it came with and I don't find it any more challenging to control, so I don't see his sword being all that much harder to control with a 11 inch handle and dont think it would cause any issues with one like the 22inch handle my sword came with or something in between the 2
@@JustaBug Personally, with swords this large, that would be a lenght, where i would consider switching to a polearm or spear of the same lenght - same reach, less or identical weigh, but longer grip. I am 180cm, and would prefer swords, that are shoulder high, in my case 140cm or max 150 cm total lenght - above that i would take a spear with a sharpened blade, or a sword staff or naginata type of weapon.
Great video! It's always nice to learn something new! :) From what I can see, Sephiroth hold his sword casually in one hand, and it's blade is as long as he is tall, so that would require superhuman abilities or magic :) Cheers!
the thing is he said that the scaled down version witch is about that size was usable it was the true sephiroth sword blade witch is like 7-8ft long with a normal or only slightly bigger handle becomes unwieldy
I've seen someone draw a nodachi from a seated position before. That technique has you half draw, grab the blade, then continue drawing. A bit unorthodox, but looked fairly elegant all things considered
It's easy: 1. Swing at an enemy at distance. 2. The scabbard becomes a ranged weapon. 3. ??? 4. Your enemy is already dead and now your sword is unsheathed.
You could but then you damage your sheathe more (and they probably weren't cheap or easy to acquire) and you also only have the option of moving in one direction so you can't draw and change your mind to draw while retreating
I'm pretty sure I've never heard of the possibility I was thinking of. Surely you can also draw a sword by throwing the scabbard away with a quick circular movement of the sword? Also in the direction of the opponent? At least if the sword has already been pulled out a bit. It's probably not easy, needs a special technique so that the sword sheath doesn't jam, but whatever.
The curve and length would probably make that difficult; and as the video mentions, scabbards are not easy to replace if damaged or lost, especially for a blade that long...
I'm not versed in historical weaponry at all, but I see big sword and I become happy. Very good and informative video, I hope Skall sees this and keeps the conversation going.
Yeah, I know Nodachis are a thing. Not sure why Skal said a Nodachi would be impractical to wield. BUT! i'm glad he said that and you came to respond. Cuz now i found your channel! :D
@@JustaBug I'd say its the Korean/Japanese kriegmesser/swiss saber, but I'm just being pedantic. In the end, large war swords were used in very similar ways/circumstances. Korean Montonte is a good description
@RedRobin2010 My understanding was allways that the messer was a much shorter weapon. More similar in length to longswords or katanas. Atleast whenever I have seen someone use a messer in a video it had dimensions like that.
@@sportenapfeltorten2095The Langes Messer (literally translated as long knife) does indeed refer to a shorter sword - usually around 80-90cm total - similar to an arming sword. They were typically straight or slightly curved, single edged, though often with the false edge clipped and/or sharpened near the tip. However they are distinct from the Kreigsmesser (literally translated as war knife), which was a larger two handed sword, usually around 110-130cm total - similar to a longsword or katana. They were also single edged; again often with a sharpened false edge near the tip, but unlike the Langes Messer, they were almost always curved.
@@akkeriworkshop Thank you for the explanation, and the translation! I am German :D I was just confused because RedRobin2010 was saying that the ssangsudo was a "korean kriegsmesser" and that didnt make sense to me because as you described Langmesser but also Kriegsmesser where definitly not the european size-equivalent to the ssangsoudo. Unless I am still not understanding something. :)
Sweet! Now we need some vids of you guys sparing with those big boys! Though I imagine you'd maybe have to come up with your own trainer swords? I have trained a lot with the lighter weight European big swords, like the montante, and it is amazing how maneuverable they are, I think it has to do with having the hands so far apart, and having the "counter weight " part of the pomel so far back from the guard, it really makes the tip feel light. I imagine your swords weight would be somewhere in the middle of the lightest and heaviest European style 2 handers. I haven't found any historical evidence to support it, but I have a theory as a professional machinist, that a benefit of the really long blades was that back when the metal quality was so poor, sword breakage was very common (there is good historical documentation of that, one of the reasons for the Japanese 2 sword style) so if you have an average size sword and it snaps in half from some impurity in the steel, you have a big dagger, if you start with a 6' sword, and it snaps in half, you still have an average size sword! Hah. In addition to all the usual benefits the historical manuals say, like it was good for body guards and times when you have one guy vs. Many guys, or when you have 2 pike formations that are evenly matched, if one has some zweihanders run in and shake things up it can really benefit their side.
I'll tell you another way to quickly draw your sword. If the sheath is not secured to the belt or back, then you can simply make a quick swing towards the enemy. The sheath easily flies away and you are ready to attack the target.
Thanks! Yeah, the echo wasn't great but I filmed it before my class so it was all we had. Not a sword you can use in your normal home so the usual filming places were out
Just an additional note, the Kage-ryū mentioned here probably is NOT the one that is ancestor art of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū (Kage-ryū characters 陰流), but rather the still extant, but less famous, Kage-ryū using characters 影流. The second Kage-ryū is best known for using very large swords, or "chōken", as they like to call them. To find info on them without getting hits on Yagyū Shinkage-ryū, use kanji characters as your search term. That said, the first Sephiroth sword Skallagrim handled in that video probably was another foot (30cm) or so longer than the sword shown here. Ah, well, time to watch Skall response to your response.
I saw a video showing drawing a zhan ma dao from the hip where one would draw it normally as far as one could then using the off hand grab by the blade & draw the rest of the blade then grabbing the grip again. It was on a Channel about historical Chinese swordsmanship but I don't remember the name of it.
@@JustaBug I've never tried it but I agree for a blade that size it would be difficult. I should have been more clear about what I meant. I was not saying the draw could be used with the type of sword you are showing, just that it's a historic draw used with some bigger single edged Asian swords. Regardless I'm going to experiment with that behind the head draw with my English 2-hander
@@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145 yeah that's fair. I'm not a huge fan of chengs draw, I think it's clunky at the best of times, but I'd be keen to hear your experiences with it
@@JustaBug I actually never have tried them. I didn't own a large sword with scabbard until more recently but even so it's an English sword. But I do agree it's clunky looking & certainly not quick. My guess would be that it was used when drawing before entering battle as speed wouldn't be an issue if one is not in the fight yet.
I think Skalls main problem was, that the handle is way shorter than the handle shown here. And did I get that right, the sword is 1.75m but they could get up to a length of 2.1m?
There was a method to draw this length of sword, from the standard Japanese carry position (at the side). You need to pull the sword+sheath across your front (to your other side). Then, hold the handle with that other hand. Now pull back the sheath, to its natural position. While also extending the hand holding the handle Peace.
I'd be really curious to see any historical documentation of this OR of a ssangsudo length nodachi >170cm worn on the hip. I am aware of many other ways of carrying but I have never seen it carried on the hip in historic documents and manuals. The largest I am aware of that is a similar type of sword is cheng zongyous chang dao at about 140-150cm on the upper end. This is still a good 20 to 60cm shorter than this style of sword
@@JustaBug a number of decades ago, a sword collector mentioned it to me. I just had a look online. It seems there were drawing methods, but they were more theatrical then battlefield tested. I'm betting thats maybe where the sword collector i spoke too heard the idea from. FYI - look up on YT - 'How to Draw & Sheath a 150cm/60in Long Katana' by Seki Sensei. He shows a theatrical draw method there :) Peace.
@@raphlvlogs271 they probably could have. Technique wise its not impossible. Though I don't know any documented examples of that. There's too few surviving ssangsudo thanks to the Japanese occupation in Korea destroying most of them. It would have been cool to see how many had reprofiled tips or repair signs
Looking forward to further insights on this weapon! I see some serious quality info from you in the Related tab, so I'm gonna subscribe and binge your videos for a bit :P
Thanks for subscribing! There's probably a fair bit in my older videos that I don't stand by anymore as Ive learnt more or grown more as a martial artist, but its still good to look back and see what I thought at the time of publishing those older vids. Hope you like them!
Here from what I understand is that you are saying: Ssangsudo is a version of (colloquially called) "Crossbowman Dao" (Chang Dao 長刀 i.e. Long Dao), which may be Miao Dao 苗刀 (i.e. grass cutter), which is a bootleg copy of (potentially) Oodachi (大太刀 i.e. big tachi -which is any sword much longer than a regular 2 Japanese chi Tachi; ) due to the difference and lack of understanding of Japanese metalworking. Or that Ssangsudo roughly refers to any two handed dao sword (i.e. transliterated from possibly 双手刀 which means two handed dao) that has its origins from China/Japan (i.e Zhan ma dao 斬馬刀, or 長刀, or 苗刀) Though I haven't watched skall's video to really comment about the other main points made in this video
No, the crossbowmans dao is a shorter chang dao in cheng zongyous manual. The miaodao is a republican era creation. The ssangsudo is an exceptionally long chang dao that general qi jiguang made a system for based of Japanese odachi. The zhan ma dao is a much earlier sword of large proportions but notably different design. These are all different swords with different historical origins
@@JustaBug Thank you for your reply! I think I just got mixed up with different writers from china in the 10 minutes I had earlier. Apologies in advance if I seem like I am disparaging you, but I am not. But thanks to this response video, I guess I now have a channel to watch/educate myself regarding Korean "HEMA" (HKMA? JJD?), yay! Now regards to Skallagrim's video, the first replica sword from medievaldepot between 0:00~1:47 mark is 78" total (57" blade) or 198 cm. It is likely not made to be functional but rather to make it look like the prop, which is why it is so flimsy (and I believe he is commenting that that version was flimsy). In the video, skall and a different shop owner later talk about how Sephiroth's sword is 7 foot (213 cm). I think a functional sword might be much stiffer and as a result maybe heavier. The Ssangsudo you have in your possession is about 175 cm, which at 6:08, you demonstrated that you were able to max out your arms to draw it out with the scabbard hitting the floor. I am not very convinced that it is possible if it was an additional 20-30 cm (i.e. two or more clenched fists) I would agree though at 2:16 that swinging the Ssangsudo with only air resisting it is not really a problem, but regarding unwieldiness of a 190cm weapon, as someone who has watched Skall's content off and on since maybe 2012, I would like to believe Skall is talking about a combination of stopping the momentum (which both of you would agree not to do, but is something i'd imagine done a lot in FF7 and maybe needing to stop one's swing to trust and parry as needed?), long usage of the weapon (i.e. one hour? a duration longer than single sparring match), objects in the room get in the way of swinging, that people use the tip of the blade to leverage against you and if you attempted to use the sword according to HEMA techniques. Thanks for your time and sharing this video, and I apologize for such a long text. i've took a glance at the channel and seen some things that interest me, and will take a look when I have the time!
@@albinoasesino absolutely agree the first sephiroth sword skall showed was a prop. With regards to drawing over the head that's recorded for use with a 1.8m sword, I agree I might struggle with a 2.1m sword. Though that's an emergency draw and there were 2.1m ssangsudo used, almost always you just had another person take the sheathe. With regards to unwieldiness, the techniques for a big sword are all about conservation of momentum, the sword doesn't stop unless it hits something. And when it does, you're not fighting the sword to stop it, you just swing it back round the other way. Giant swords like this are fantastic to use, even for long periods of time. You wouldn't be using this anywhere you have things you don't want to hit. It's a great area denial weapon. There are forms with the overgrip to shorten the reach when you need it for those situations but it's not really the weapons main use. I like skalls content. I just think this time he and the fire and steel owner got too caught up in what's impractical and jumped the gun and wrote off the possibility of a real sword with those proportions
When discussing if Sephiroth's Masamume can be used for real life, I don't know why Kojiro and his washman's pole nodachi does not come up. He is the basis for Sephiroth and even have a technique for the nodachi called the swallow cut. He might not be real but it would be interesting to hear about how a fantasy character came about especially when discussing if his weapon can be used in real life.
Funny thing is I believe Kojiro's nodachi was shorter than what's usually replicated today, at least based on what I've seen. A lot of them tend to be 60-64 inches. His was a little over 53 inches.
Well yeah the one you're holding is historical but Sephiroths sword is between 86.45 in/7.2ft to 90in/7.6ft long. There were some ceremonial swords that were that long & longer but they were never meant for actual use in combat.
There are ssangsudo in the manual mentioned being ~210cm that were used. 0.2 to 0.6 feet longer would make it more difficult, but honestly not to the point of needing superhuman strength. I think the limiting factor was collateral damage and carrying the giant things around that limited their size rather than the strength needed because we see some polearms with heavier heads than these entire swords
Oh wow! That's WILD! I hope Skall sees this! I want to see more people diving into the use of this now!
I love how you mentioned three methods of unsheathing the sword yet completely glazed over just how effortlessly you did so at 2:07. Brilliant video.
greetings from skall's channel, I think this was a great response to his video and we need more people responding to his content, especially his older content because I know he wants to go back and fix some things but he's worried it won't be "relevant" so any response video is a good video for him.
It's funny that as with Iberian montante, this was a shipboard weapon. Deck clearing with a giant sword seems pretty universal.
Even in tight spaces, like street alleys and underdeck galleys.
Wasn't aware there was an organization like this in sydney! Very happy to hear this.
@@revolutionaryfoxinist2377 you're welcome to drop in anytime in the first four weeks of each term
@@JustaBug What do you mean by term? Like, school/university terms?
Nevermind, I just checked your website and understand what you mean by term. I'll check out travel routes, I'm definitely intrigued
This sword is the sword my gf says not to worry about
But she always hangs out with him
Did you notice the look on Caras face, when she held that sword…(Skalls video)? 😁
when she says size doesn't matter
Skall reacted which is how i found you. I love the casual and respectful back and forth. Im a nerd for any historical arms and armor.
Definitely subbing
Ps if your interested in a one-on-one chat with skall for content lemme know, done some work with skall in the past and im sure he’d be interested.
One aspect of Sephiroth's Masamune that tends to be overlooked on the way to finding real-world analogues like nodachi/odachi/the ssangsudo here/etc. is that 1) the blade is extra long - usually the length of a nodachi (5-7 ft) on its own - and 2) the handle is the size/shape of a regular katana's. Both of these would make a real sword extra unwieldy, and thus no real historical sword is a _perfect_ analogue. I do think Skallagrim focused overmuch on his sword-drawing woes, and I appreciate your knowledge about historical draw methods; that behind-the-head draw was pretty slick.
I think this is just an issue of focusing on one particular style of sword. Skallagrim is clearly an European style practioner so his skill base would bias him towards the way western swords are built and their contruction. He would subconsciously apply western sword bias on the media he reviews and the masamune is a good example of that.
tbf sephiroth himself is a almost 2m in height so bug (or any average asian heigh guy) with ssangsudo is still a good analogy.
Masamune as it exists in the games is completely impractical to real humans, and splitting hairs on real world Nodachi drawing techniques ultimately just distracts from the point.
@@SethAbercromby I don't know that it necessarily is or that they necessarily do. While they aren't _100%_ analogous, real-world long tachi do serve the purpose of pointing out that, while the Masamune is somewhat exaggerated, it's not overly so and not to the point of unbelievability. Of the myriad fantasy weapons out there, the Masamune is among the most "could (have) exist(ed) in the real world."
I think a significant part of the reason why people are focusing on Skallagrim's comments about sheathing and unsheathing such a weapon is that said comments are just the clearest demonstration of both his (self-admitted) ignorance and, more critically, how that ignorance can lead to straight up bad commentary. (He talks about the Masamune, nodachi, and katana interchangeably, and uses the nodachi as one would a katana, things he would know to distinguish if the weapons were, say, a longsword, a zweihander, and Aragorn's Anduril. I get it's a casual video with casual commentary, but even so.)
Plus that behind-the-head draw IS slick as hell. 😄
@@muchluck7981 Personally I feel he just forgot that you can apply other sword techniques to a longer blade, see: Zweihänder. He treated it like you would use it like a normal length blade, and not whirl it around like a Zweihänder
Awesome, keen to hear more about Korean "hema" in future. The behind the head draw is great! Never seen that before.
I know the Long Sword that is ming influenced has reached Southeast Asia in the 16th-17th century. Apparently, In Cambodia, the long sword was used in warfare. When the Qing expelled the Ming, they headed to Vietnam, but the emperor told them they lived in the Mekong Delta. The ex-ming actually ended up living at a port in Cambodia. They ended up making their own trade center. Their sword was locally produced and it used local and Chinese material.
Yes, did you mention to just open the sheath, then cut towards the opponent, thus hurling the sheath as a projectile towards them, while you run in behind it? It is used to end him rightly.
@@AscendingGuru sheathes tend to be quite pricey so I wouldn't recommend it. Especially in the 1500s and for such a long sheathe
my odachi is only 152 cm. I might have chosen this if I had been aware. Thank you for the great video Bug.
Hoping Skallagrim sees this...
Always wondered about Korean swords and weapons, so this video recommendation is fantastic...
I have no idea why the algorithm suggested this video to me, since I don't follow you or Skallagrim, but I'm glad to have seen it. Fantastic video, very informative, loved the demonstrations.
Qi Jiguang's manual also mentions reverse-gripping the blade to unsheathe, it gives you just a bit more reach to pull the sword out by yourself.
Lovely video!
I also saw a video with shogo from lets ask shogo and seki sensei where they talk about really long japanese swords.
And appareantly drawing them has developed into a form of performance. It was really interesting and they also showed some techniques for drawing, making it look very smooth and deceptivly easy.
Saw it too. Was amazing to watch.
Good video mate, always lovely to see this kind of swords in action, recently I saw similar exemples from Cambodia, it seems that wherever Japanese and South chinese people settled they adopted these swords.
@@theghosthero6173 yeah I've seen some Cambodian examples. If you can bring big sword with you, why not?
oh man, those cambodian swords are beautiful
Wow this is fascinating, I would not have guessed that such a large sword originated in use by pirates. You would think they might opt for more compact weapons, something akin to a cutlass or something of similar proportions, given the confined spaces of ships. But the area denial aspect makes total sense. Great video!
I shared your vid on skallagrims channel
Thanks!
and subbed. love when people deep dive into old historical weapon manuals. especially obscure ones.
This is super cool. I never would have thought about a weapon like this being used by pirates, but it really does make a ton of sense.
Wow, I've never seen a long habaki (or the Korean equivalent term) like that before! It reminds me of the cloth wrappings on nakamaki nodachi (中巻野太刀), supposed precursor of the nagamaki (長巻).
@@ShuajoX Yeah, it's almost certainly derived from that. But improved because now it's fixed on the sword and it aids in stiffening
💯💯💯All I saw is metallurgy and Martial perfection.
Swinging big swords is good for shoulder health.
I mean... this is basically an exact copy of the far more common nodachi...
Nah nodachi typically have different handle to blade ratios, the ssangsudo is closer to masamune in its short handle to blade ratio. Nodachi also rarely get up to this size, whereas the ssangsudo is, as per the manuals, regularly larger than the wielder and still used in battle rather than being ceremonial swords
@@JustaBug I didn't know about those specifics of the ssangsudo! But the point I was trying to get at was that nodachi were commonly used and nobody questions their viability as a battlefield weapon.
Great explainer, mate! And I'm happy for you that Skall actually got back to you on the topic. Love that cross-discipline sharing of insights and interpretations 😁
The Chinese had something similar. It's called the ZhanMaDao, which literally means "horse cutter" and it was used in The Han Dynasty to stop cavalry charges by cutting off the horse's legs. The sword was 79 inches or 6 feet, 5 inches, so it had the range. There was also a weapon called the ChangDao (long saber) used by elite Tang Dynasty infantry. The sword was 7 feet in length and it was like a sword and a polearm.
You messed up a lot of the dynasties and common terms. The large two handed sword was used since the Han dynasty in various forms. The names Changdao is just "two handed saber" while Zhanmadao is "horse cutting saber". There's also names like Miaodao and Dandao. Regardless, the most well recorded use was in the Ming Dynasty as an answer to Nodachi/Odachi and Nagamaki wielders of the Woku forces. The longer swords were meant to duel against them or were adopted due to the effectiveness of those two handed swords. Generally they were all big 6+ ft in length, but nothing exact. Likely they were fit to the wielder. Doubled edge jians also existed since the Han dynasty in various capacities with museum examples surviving today. But the horse cutting name is a translation misinterpretation. There's no real recorded use of it in a battlefield capacity, but rather a testament to its ability to cut through a horse. They appear to mostly be used as execution swords and fit the same profiles as their European counterparts. Likewise Zhanmadao also refers to halberds in the Ming dynasty. Translations are tricky.
Great content. As a piece of constructive criticism the echo is really bad. That room is an audio nemesis, and it will never know defeat.
What's the difference between the nodachi/oodachi and the ssangsudo?
Great question. The ssangsudo came from the nodachi but it has a much longer blade collar (habaki on the nodachi) and also there's are far fewer nodachi in the realm of length that the manuals list the ssangsudo should be. At least in terms of ones actually used for combat. It's likely monstrously large nodachi existed (greater than wielder height) but were uncommon but because they were the ones that qi jiguang had exposure to, they were the ones that became standard in China and Korea for the ssangsudo style. There were also likely blade shape differences but due to the lack of surviving ssangsudo it's all speculation until someone finds some period historical documents proving it
@@JustaBug Thank you for your explanation!
By the way, I'd like to add some info to your video, or rather say: a bit of correction. To my knowledge the nodachi was used as a battlefield weapon, in Japan when the warrior wasn't using it, it was stored on the back (possibly wrapped in). So I infer that the ssangsudo was also used in the same way. Therefore if a bandit or some kind was to attack the warrior, it would be a lot quicker (and far less deadlier) for the warrior to use a regular/shorter sword which is most likely at hand, on the hip, than to start getting it off from the back and unwrapping it.
@@SamuraiNinja_HUN not sure about back draws. I've seen art of swords been strapped on the back for transport with no concern for likelihood of use. In Korea it is unlikely the ssangsudo soldiers had another sword at their hip besides a dagger. There's one manual in China that mentions a dagger with a long sword but none about other swords and so having another sword on the hip seems to be a Japanese thing likely due to culture
@@JustaBug Hmm, I see. Thank you again!
@@JustaBug Oh and also in Japan, in the sengoku era, it was common even for the ashigaru (foot soldier) to carry a short sword as a secondary weapon for close combat or in case the soldier loses his primary weapon.
Those swords must've been one hell of a project to forge back in the day. Quite a showpiece.
Love the polite disagreement in your response. Can't stand when people are just like 'YOU'RE WRONG!' or whatever. Keep up the good work, sir!
@Just a Bug I never knew his sword was more of a SSangsudo. Very interesting. Thank you for that. Definitely want to check out more of your videos.
Question, have there ever been a sword called Kodachi? I heard the like the Wakizashi. I first knew of it from the anime Rurouni Kenshin used by the character, Shinomori Aoshi. In the dub, they explained the Kodachi was the length of a Wakizashi but with length of the Tsuka of a Katana. Want to see if you knew more about it, if it's practical, if these are still made. Thanks.
@@setokaiba200x the kodachi literally translates to small sword. It's a shorter blade than a katana and handle usually of longer proportions than you would see on a waki blade. As for the use, I'm not an expert in Japanese swords, it's not my area of interest so take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't think we have any manuals or historic records of their use. So we can't be sure. They were likely carried for self defence, and could possibly have been intended for hand and a half use, like we see on some korean swords with similar blade and handle length, but that's purely speculation. There's a youtuber called Nate the Aussie who is a good friend of mine who specialises in Japanese historical martial arts and he may know more. Hope that helps and sorry for the inconclusive answer
@@JustaBugThank you very much! I'll check your friend's channel.
I enjoyed this video. It's informative and concise, and I appreciate that you didn't talk trash or try to start a rivalry with Skallagrim or anything silly like that.
To be fair, I think the one Skall used was 210cm or something around there. So that is a 35cm increase, which can REALLY make it floppy. So to not make it floppy you pretty much have to make it thicker, which results in a heavier blade. Now 175cm is not a too unrealistic length, there were two handers that were that long, but they also tapered in blade thickness and had a secondary handle on top of the regular guard, so the blade was stiffer and you could also swing it faster, compremising a bit of slashing power, but Skall also made a very good point and that is it's not very good against attacks, since the torque that would be generated from striking the end of the blade would be so big it's pretty much impossible to counteract it.
I think Skall was more thinking of a sword you would use while alone and something that you would carry. Now for crowd control it is actually a pretty good weapon, no one wants to come close to someone with a sword the length of a person. So if someone tried to board your ship you would certainly fend them off quite good. Although something like a spear in my opinion could do the same exact thing, and can be even longer without compromising anything since it's just meant for thrusting. But if there are like multiple bridges to your ship it would be better in that case, since one swing could defend both.
But it's a pretty sick weapon not going to lie, definitely wouldn't want to get close to that.
Any weapon can really work, just some a better for certain thing. Like you certainly wouldn't carry this if you were on foot, since it'd be quite cumbersome
Glad you’re still posting man! Also that is a comically large sword! XD
Thanks! Yeah, it's quite the whopper
Hello, I found your channel on this video and was surprised to see someone outside of Korea researching this subject. I watched multiple of your video and if possible I would like to discuss a few points from the previous video if that is not too much for you. thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching my video! You're always welcome to shoot me an email at Justabug.yt@outlook.com and I will do my best to reply
@@JustaBug Thank you!
When I used to do Japanese martial arts we had some Odachi/Nodachi stuff. I never got a chance to use a real one though; alas.
We had the two people drawing each other’s swords method.
Can’t wait to see your full interpretation.
had no idea this existed thank you!! interested in your future vid
This is totally wicked! Great video 😊
Thanks!
Just a point to skallagrim here, maybe he didn't bring up that sword but looking at sephiroth's sword the blade is longer than his body and the handle is a lot shorter, maybe not completely unwieldable but not exactly optimum.
Bug thank you for this video! That behind the shoulders drawing method is something that not even considered with a large, single edged Asian sword but wow that works well & as you said lines your beautifully for an immediate cut.
Thank you very much for sharing your hard work 😊
You should see if you and Skall can do a collaboration somehow
Amazing & concise video. I'm so happy this was recommended. I'm not even a skallagrim sub.
So, this awesome giant sword was used by pirates… epic. This was a really good video!
Hello brother! I practice korean martial arts, and I train with a Ssangsudo myself! I've been looking for historical references of the Ssangsudo because usually I find more about 150cm long maximum, and it's really difficult for someone who doesn't know korean (yet, working on it) to find proper sources. Lovely video! I use a LK Silver Swallow Miao Dao for my Ssangsudo forms.
Your videos were always really useful for me when researching sword brands mate!
Glad to hear someone else is training in the ssangsudo. The main historic reference is the ssangsudo manual in muyedobotongji and it has the specs listed which comes out to a 1.8m sword. If you want to discuss historic swordsmanship more and sources you can always shoot me questions via email or instagram though I probably reply quicker to email
@@JustaBug thanks a lot! It's been in my shop list since forever. Appreciate the help and the passion for the art. Just you know there are some practitioners that really love korean style fencing in Spain!
important thing about giant swords. Your arm span is equal to your height (give or take 5 to 10cm) so as long as the blade doesn't go higher than roughly your chin, you can unsheath it "naturaly" (accounting for closed fist)
Indeed
I see Ssangsudo, I upvote.
Great video mate. Quick point question, I don’t know if it’s specified in the Korean text, but for the draw over the head, does it specifically say to just drop the scabbard? I know there are some dynamic draw for long Chinese forms, and I’m wondering if this might be a situation where if your arm span is not long enough for your given blade, you can even kind of “ shoot the scabbard” off of the end of the blade since you discarding it anyway.
We are simple me. Big sword. Big thumbs up.
It doesn't specifically say to drop the sheath. But the form follows on straight into two handed cuts so my interpretation is you drop the sheath. Shooting it off would probably be preferable to being caught stuck trying to draw, though I've not directly seen any manuals advocate for it. Would be keen to know if you have seen any
@@JustaBugI think Shogo has a vid where his kenjutsu sensei demonstrates a similar thing, but the opposite - shooting the odachi out of the saya. They say it’s a traditional method of their school. Edit: found it ruclips.net/video/hFVL0RzmbbI/видео.htmlsi=SGx030EjjeNTAeAb.
More theatrical version of the draw form from Dan Dao Fa Xuan.
@@mulli032 I was going to try the Seki Sensei method with my nodachi when his vid first came out but thought nah!, I want to keep all my fingers 🙂
@@gazza8234 why you need that long blade collar!
Great video! While I know how hard is to create, train and fight with such a weapon, it's great to see than we actually can have some big ass swords in reality :D
WOW THATS SO COOL I learned something!! I didn't even know that there was a Korean equivalent to HEMA!
what's really funny is there are techniques for close combat with single edge swords of that length...for instance the position you were in with the sword on your shoulder and the hilt up on your right...if you bring the hilt down to your left (cutting motion) and roll the back of the sword across your chest, you can make a devastating, very powerful and fast cut that has a much closer range (like some of the chinese dao forms)
Absolutely fascinating! Had no idea these swords were real, good work
oh, that looks familiar, Lady Eboshi's bodyguard draws his sword like that in Princess Mononoke during the night raid scene. leave it to Miyazaki to get something like that correct.
Oh wow havent see you in a long while! Glad to see you are still on the platform!
Thanks namazu! Still posting infrequently
@@JustaBug Keep them coming! Always appreciate your post!
Honestly, yes, swords this big can work. I don't know what Skall was thinking when things like the Zweihander and Montante exist. But imagine using a version that's closer to the original design of the Masamune, with the shorter handle and blade that's taller than Sephiroth himself (he's like at least six feet iirc).
210cm ssangsudo are documented in the manual. The shorter handle would probably make it more difficult but I can't imagine it making it difficult to the point of needing superhuman strength, especially because most of how you use these swords is momentum conservation
If i remember correct, then he said, that binding would work against you, since the blade acts as a massive lever. Or generally, that binding and redirecting such a long blade would be easy for the opponent, because of leverage. And you would have the same problems with other great swords too, just not to that extent.
You're not fighting out of the bind with these swords. It was a pretty stupid comment, because yes, trying to bind would work against you. But it'd be like saying all polearms are useless because the opponent can grab the shaft. Weapons are used based on their inherent advantages and disadvantages and the systems of use of weapons differs based on what they can do. If someone tries to bind my ssangsudo in a full swing....well good luck. It'll blast through most guards and if it doesn't it's quicker just to cut round the other side than try to engage in winning a bind. It's what every greatsword manual advocates
most depictions the sword is the same size as sephiroth with some odd shots making it larger or twice his size. and hes estimated to be 6'1" - 6'4" 193-194 cm and the handles close to a nodachi's length rather then a katanas shorter one. based on it look's like 3 of his hands would fit on it.
im 5'6"-5'7" (170-173cm) and I use a odachi with a 100cm blade but I modified it to have a 11 inch (27cm) katanas handle instead of the 22 inch(55 cm) one it came with and I don't find it any more challenging to control, so I don't see his sword being all that much harder to control with a 11 inch handle and dont think it would cause any issues with one like the 22inch handle my sword came with or something in between the 2
@@JustaBug Personally, with swords this large, that would be a lenght, where i would consider switching to a polearm or spear of the same lenght - same reach, less or identical weigh, but longer grip. I am 180cm, and would prefer swords, that are shoulder high, in my case 140cm or max 150 cm total lenght - above that i would take a spear with a sharpened blade, or a sword staff or naginata type of weapon.
Love this, I need to get a ssangsudo!
Aw man if I was still in Sydney I'd have been VERY interested in learning Korean HEMA. Still, it's a good thing you're doing =u=
수고하새요~
Great video! It's always nice to learn something new! :)
From what I can see, Sephiroth hold his sword casually in one hand, and it's blade is as long as he is tall, so that would require superhuman abilities or magic :)
Cheers!
Thanks! Glad to share.
I can casually hold my sword in one hand and its longer than I am tall. I'm also not particularly strong for a non superhuman
He doese't just hold it with one hand, mind you. He treats it like a one-handed weapon!
Very interesting, I do not think I heard of the area control with a sword on a ship before
the thing is he said that the scaled down version witch is about that size was usable it was the true sephiroth sword blade witch is like 7-8ft long with a normal or only slightly bigger handle becomes unwieldy
I've seen someone draw a nodachi from a seated position before. That technique has you half draw, grab the blade, then continue drawing. A bit unorthodox, but looked fairly elegant all things considered
It's easy:
1. Swing at an enemy at distance.
2. The scabbard becomes a ranged weapon.
3. ???
4. Your enemy is already dead and now your sword is unsheathed.
couldn't you also just jamb the sheath in the dirt or mud & run forward draw & attack
You could but then you damage your sheathe more (and they probably weren't cheap or easy to acquire) and you also only have the option of moving in one direction so you can't draw and change your mind to draw while retreating
As someone who practices buhurt I'm now imagining seeing someone using one of those
Its so cool that there's a Korean HEMA
Korean Historical _European_ Martial Arts>?
HKMA I guess lol
really cool video on a really cool weapon with some really cool history
the sword is 175cm?
I thought it was taller since it towered over you
Thankfully I'm still taller than the average 1500s korean soldier so it would've towered over them even more
I'm pretty sure I've never heard of the possibility I was thinking of.
Surely you can also draw a sword by throwing the scabbard away with a quick circular movement of the sword?
Also in the direction of the opponent? At least if the sword has already been pulled out a bit.
It's probably not easy, needs a special technique so that the sword sheath doesn't jam, but whatever.
The curve and length would probably make that difficult; and as the video mentions, scabbards are not easy to replace if damaged or lost, especially for a blade that long...
So awsome! thanx for the great video!
I'm not versed in historical weaponry at all, but I see big sword and I become happy. Very good and informative video, I hope Skall sees this and keeps the conversation going.
I always just figured the Masamune was an exaggerated odachi.
Sephiroth is 6'1"(185cm) and his sword is 6'6"(198cm). It's in an even LARGER category than the sword being shown. Love the video!
Yeah, I know Nodachis are a thing. Not sure why Skal said a Nodachi would be impractical to wield. BUT! i'm glad he said that and you came to respond. Cuz now i found your channel! :D
Ah, my favorite sword: the Japanese Montante.
@@Ranstone korean montante. Or my favourite is to call it the Korean zweihander, because the English translation of both is two handed sword
@@JustaBug I'd say its the Korean/Japanese kriegmesser/swiss saber, but I'm just being pedantic.
In the end, large war swords were used in very similar ways/circumstances. Korean Montonte is a good description
@RedRobin2010
My understanding was allways that the messer was a much shorter weapon. More similar in length to longswords or katanas.
Atleast whenever I have seen someone use a messer in a video it had dimensions like that.
@@sportenapfeltorten2095The Langes Messer (literally translated as long knife) does indeed refer to a shorter sword - usually around 80-90cm total - similar to an arming sword. They were typically straight or slightly curved, single edged, though often with the false edge clipped and/or sharpened near the tip.
However they are distinct from the Kreigsmesser (literally translated as war knife), which was a larger two handed sword, usually around 110-130cm total - similar to a longsword or katana.
They were also single edged; again often with a sharpened false edge near the tip, but unlike the Langes Messer, they were almost always curved.
@@akkeriworkshop
Thank you for the explanation, and the translation!
I am German
:D
I was just confused because RedRobin2010 was saying that the ssangsudo was a "korean kriegsmesser" and that didnt make sense to me because as you described Langmesser but also Kriegsmesser where definitly not the european size-equivalent to the ssangsoudo.
Unless I am still not understanding something.
:)
Sweet! Now we need some vids of you guys sparing with those big boys! Though I imagine you'd maybe have to come up with your own trainer swords? I have trained a lot with the lighter weight European big swords, like the montante, and it is amazing how maneuverable they are, I think it has to do with having the hands so far apart, and having the "counter weight " part of the pomel so far back from the guard, it really makes the tip feel light. I imagine your swords weight would be somewhere in the middle of the lightest and heaviest European style 2 handers. I haven't found any historical evidence to support it, but I have a theory as a professional machinist, that a benefit of the really long blades was that back when the metal quality was so poor, sword breakage was very common (there is good historical documentation of that, one of the reasons for the Japanese 2 sword style) so if you have an average size sword and it snaps in half from some impurity in the steel, you have a big dagger, if you start with a 6' sword, and it snaps in half, you still have an average size sword! Hah. In addition to all the usual benefits the historical manuals say, like it was good for body guards and times when you have one guy vs. Many guys, or when you have 2 pike formations that are evenly matched, if one has some zweihanders run in and shake things up it can really benefit their side.
I'll tell you another way to quickly draw your sword. If the sheath is not secured to the belt or back, then you can simply make a quick swing towards the enemy. The sheath easily flies away and you are ready to attack the target.
Just out of curiosity, where does one purchase a nodachi/ssangsudo that is in the range of 175cm or larger?
"History is a fantasy that doesn't exist!!"
-Skallagrim
Interesting and informative video, however sound from recording in the hall was kind of distracting.
Thanks! Yeah, the echo wasn't great but I filmed it before my class so it was all we had. Not a sword you can use in your normal home so the usual filming places were out
Thank you for being a rational martial artist!
You earned yourself a sub 💪
zweihänder was quite sort ;-) there was the so called "Gassenhauer - Schwert" it was quite longer than an ordinary Zweihänder
I want one of these so bad
WOKOU PIRATES MENTIONED, WE GETTING OUT OF NAVAL DUTIES WITH THIS ONE, TEAM.
Nice. I'm curious to see the results of your training one of these days... or in the next few years.
Wow. That’s crazy. That is a WILD sword!
Just an additional note, the Kage-ryū mentioned here probably is NOT the one that is ancestor art of Yagyū Shinkage-ryū (Kage-ryū characters 陰流), but rather the still extant, but less famous, Kage-ryū using characters 影流. The second Kage-ryū is best known for using very large swords, or "chōken", as they like to call them. To find info on them without getting hits on Yagyū Shinkage-ryū, use kanji characters as your search term.
That said, the first Sephiroth sword Skallagrim handled in that video probably was another foot (30cm) or so longer than the sword shown here. Ah, well, time to watch Skall response to your response.
I saw a video showing drawing a zhan ma dao from the hip where one would draw it normally as far as one could then using the off hand grab by the blade & draw the rest of the blade then grabbing the grip again.
It was on a Channel about historical Chinese swordsmanship but I don't remember the name of it.
That's cheng zongyous draw documented in dandaofaxuan. You would really struggle to do that with a blade this big
@@JustaBug I've never tried it but I agree for a blade that size it would be difficult. I should have been more clear about what I meant. I was not saying the draw could be used with the type of sword you are showing, just that it's a historic draw used with some bigger single edged Asian swords.
Regardless I'm going to experiment with that behind the head draw with my English 2-hander
@@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145 yeah that's fair. I'm not a huge fan of chengs draw, I think it's clunky at the best of times, but I'd be keen to hear your experiences with it
@@JustaBug I actually never have tried them. I didn't own a large sword with scabbard until more recently but even so it's an English sword. But I do agree it's clunky looking & certainly not quick. My guess would be that it was used when drawing before entering battle as speed wouldn't be an issue if one is not in the fight yet.
Cool vid, but Skall had even bigger sword. At least it seems like it. It will be nice to have that comparison..
I think Skalls main problem was, that the handle is way shorter than the handle shown here.
And did I get that right, the sword is 1.75m but they could get up to a length of 2.1m?
Very enjoyable video and informative to, keep up good work 👍
Thanks!
You are very welcome
There was a method to draw this length of sword, from the standard Japanese carry position (at the side).
You need to pull the sword+sheath across your front (to your other side).
Then, hold the handle with that other hand.
Now pull back the sheath, to its natural position. While also extending the hand holding the handle
Peace.
I'd be really curious to see any historical documentation of this OR of a ssangsudo length nodachi >170cm worn on the hip. I am aware of many other ways of carrying but I have never seen it carried on the hip in historic documents and manuals. The largest I am aware of that is a similar type of sword is cheng zongyous chang dao at about 140-150cm on the upper end. This is still a good 20 to 60cm shorter than this style of sword
@@JustaBug a number of decades ago, a sword collector mentioned it to me. I just had a look online. It seems there were drawing methods, but they were more theatrical then battlefield tested. I'm betting thats maybe where the sword collector i spoke too heard the idea from.
FYI - look up on YT - 'How to Draw & Sheath a 150cm/60in Long Katana' by Seki Sensei. He shows a theatrical draw method there :)
Peace.
This is the coolest thing I've ever seen
Awesome video about this magnificent sword.
can smiths salvage great swords broken in battle and forge them in to wearable smaller swords or daggers?
@@raphlvlogs271 they probably could have. Technique wise its not impossible. Though I don't know any documented examples of that. There's too few surviving ssangsudo thanks to the Japanese occupation in Korea destroying most of them. It would have been cool to see how many had reprofiled tips or repair signs
Looking forward to further insights on this weapon!
I see some serious quality info from you in the Related tab, so I'm gonna subscribe and binge your videos for a bit :P
Thanks for subscribing! There's probably a fair bit in my older videos that I don't stand by anymore as Ive learnt more or grown more as a martial artist, but its still good to look back and see what I thought at the time of publishing those older vids. Hope you like them!
Here from what I understand is that you are saying:
Ssangsudo is a version of (colloquially called) "Crossbowman Dao" (Chang Dao 長刀 i.e. Long Dao), which may be Miao Dao 苗刀 (i.e. grass cutter), which is a bootleg copy of (potentially) Oodachi (大太刀 i.e. big tachi -which is any sword much longer than a regular 2 Japanese chi Tachi; ) due to the difference and lack of understanding of Japanese metalworking.
Or that Ssangsudo roughly refers to any two handed dao sword (i.e. transliterated from possibly 双手刀 which means two handed dao) that has its origins from China/Japan (i.e Zhan ma dao 斬馬刀, or 長刀, or 苗刀)
Though I haven't watched skall's video to really comment about the other main points made in this video
No, the crossbowmans dao is a shorter chang dao in cheng zongyous manual. The miaodao is a republican era creation. The ssangsudo is an exceptionally long chang dao that general qi jiguang made a system for based of Japanese odachi. The zhan ma dao is a much earlier sword of large proportions but notably different design. These are all different swords with different historical origins
@@JustaBug
Thank you for your reply! I think I just got mixed up with different writers from china in the 10 minutes I had earlier.
Apologies in advance if I seem like I am disparaging you, but I am not. But thanks to this response video, I guess I now have a channel to watch/educate myself regarding Korean "HEMA" (HKMA? JJD?), yay!
Now regards to Skallagrim's video, the first replica sword from medievaldepot between 0:00~1:47 mark is 78" total (57" blade) or 198 cm. It is likely not made to be functional but rather to make it look like the prop, which is why it is so flimsy (and I believe he is commenting that that version was flimsy). In the video, skall and a different shop owner later talk about how Sephiroth's sword is 7 foot (213 cm). I think a functional sword might be much stiffer and as a result maybe heavier.
The Ssangsudo you have in your possession is about 175 cm, which at 6:08, you demonstrated that you were able to max out your arms to draw it out with the scabbard hitting the floor. I am not very convinced that it is possible if it was an additional 20-30 cm (i.e. two or more clenched fists)
I would agree though at 2:16 that swinging the Ssangsudo with only air resisting it is not really a problem, but regarding unwieldiness of a 190cm weapon, as someone who has watched Skall's content off and on since maybe 2012, I would like to believe Skall is talking about a combination of stopping the momentum (which both of you would agree not to do, but is something i'd imagine done a lot in FF7 and maybe needing to stop one's swing to trust and parry as needed?), long usage of the weapon (i.e. one hour? a duration longer than single sparring match), objects in the room get in the way of swinging, that people use the tip of the blade to leverage against you and if you attempted to use the sword according to HEMA techniques.
Thanks for your time and sharing this video, and I apologize for such a long text. i've took a glance at the channel and seen some things that interest me, and will take a look when I have the time!
@@albinoasesino absolutely agree the first sephiroth sword skall showed was a prop. With regards to drawing over the head that's recorded for use with a 1.8m sword, I agree I might struggle with a 2.1m sword. Though that's an emergency draw and there were 2.1m ssangsudo used, almost always you just had another person take the sheathe.
With regards to unwieldiness, the techniques for a big sword are all about conservation of momentum, the sword doesn't stop unless it hits something. And when it does, you're not fighting the sword to stop it, you just swing it back round the other way. Giant swords like this are fantastic to use, even for long periods of time. You wouldn't be using this anywhere you have things you don't want to hit. It's a great area denial weapon. There are forms with the overgrip to shorten the reach when you need it for those situations but it's not really the weapons main use.
I like skalls content. I just think this time he and the fire and steel owner got too caught up in what's impractical and jumped the gun and wrote off the possibility of a real sword with those proportions
When discussing if Sephiroth's Masamume can be used for real life, I don't know why Kojiro and his washman's pole nodachi does not come up. He is the basis for Sephiroth and even have a technique for the nodachi called the swallow cut. He might not be real but it would be interesting to hear about how a fantasy character came about especially when discussing if his weapon can be used in real life.
Funny thing is I believe Kojiro's nodachi was shorter than what's usually replicated today, at least based on what I've seen. A lot of them tend to be 60-64 inches. His was a little over 53 inches.
👍
To be fair, it's still half the length of Sephiroth sword
Great stuff, love a good response video
Well yeah the one you're holding is historical but Sephiroths sword is between 86.45 in/7.2ft to 90in/7.6ft long. There were some ceremonial swords that were that long & longer but they were never meant for actual use in combat.
There are ssangsudo in the manual mentioned being ~210cm that were used. 0.2 to 0.6 feet longer would make it more difficult, but honestly not to the point of needing superhuman strength. I think the limiting factor was collateral damage and carrying the giant things around that limited their size rather than the strength needed because we see some polearms with heavier heads than these entire swords