Thanks Kyle. Good video. Mic'ing the snare bottom wasn't mentioned. It can be helpful when trying to get more snare attack. when used in conjunction with a snare top mic. Note: the phase should be inverted on the snare bottom mic. Often kick drums are recorded with both kick in and kick out mics. Room mics can add another dimension to the drum sound. Mic placement and experimentation is critical! The genre of the music that's being recorded should be taken into account. Lastly, everything changes in the mix. Sometimes you'll need more detail and sometimes less.
I've found that bottom mic'ing adds a lot of extra noise (just solo it up and see). This whole approach of mic'ing the bottome of the SD came from letting drummers make decisions and then trying to compensate for their unwillingness to listen to the producer. Nine times out of ten, just loosening the snares will give that attack.
@@iamtheimagedoctor Mic'ing the bottom of the snare is a very common practice, regardless where it came from. That "noise" can be desirable when blended with ST. You could make the same argument with room mics. They can be useful in certain situations.
@@clicks59 It is "common practice" recently (last 15 years) because engineers have lost the concept of how to mic drums correctly. Most new engineers haven't had the experience or the mentorship. Bernard Purdy, Hal Blaine, Steve Gadd never had a mic on the bottom of their snare drum. You say that "noise" can be desirable. Maybe I'm just old school but I like a clean, tight sound. I can't imagine Steely Dan sitting in the control room saying "What we need is more random noise in the mix." Room mics simulate the listener being in the room with the drummer. A mic on the bottom of the snare simulates the listener with his head between the drummer's knees. The old school engineers had it down: Good sounding drums in a good sounding room. Listen to Dave Brubeck "Take Five" iconic drum sound: two mics! Same with Art Blakey. One reason I'm sure Kyle didn't include bottom mic'ing in this video is because the drums sounded great, even with just the overhead and kick. What, exactly, do you think is missing?
@@iamtheimagedoctor I'm old school as well. I totally agree with your concepts but I don't believe all of the sound coming from the bottom of the snare is noise. I would never use the track by itself in a mix though. I was taught that a SB track blended with ST, OH and rooms can give the snare an edgy sound which might be desirable in certain types of music. It's more of an effect just like room mics. You might not use them but they are another tool in the toolbox come mixing day. I was fortunate to spend several years in the studio with the guy who recorded and engineered this tune. He was my teacher. ruclips.net/video/qW9mZLnQ7Yc/видео.html
I came here to make a similar comment, but I also want to add that using a dynamic mic in the bass/kick drum and a condenser mic on the outside. Also when it comes to the inside mic, no drum is designed the same and different beaters affect the sound as well. Further that experimentation by taking the reso head off and moving the inside mic around to find “the sweet spot.” Overall, I find this to be a good video for beginners, but maybe a video sharing the more complex aspects of drum micing might be a good idea.
The Kompact is great because it is voiced very similarly to the original and isn’t overly ‘crisp’ like the Mk. II. No more needing to shell out for a 40 year old mic that needs rebuilt! Also I was bummed that it has a plastic body until I realized that 1) it is glass-fibre loaded and thus amazingly tough for how light it is and 2) it refuses to resonate no matter what you throw it on.
This is excellent. I am a newby at mic'ing drums and after a mild non-desctructive 'flooding'of my studio space I just reset the kit and mic's and am going to be dialing them in. There is a lot to mic'ing drums isn't there? I had made the mistake of using a stereo AT822 as an overhead not realizing it was a close proximity stereo mic. I now have one AT4033 I am going to try as an overhead, AKG D112 for BD, SM57 on snare, AT SD condenser on HH, 2 of the old Radio Shack 'Sennheisers' on high and mid toms, and Yamaha classic MZ204? something on low tom, Oh and one of the RS's on the beater side of BD. I have the similar setup with low ceilings, and when re-setting I had the kit in a corner (it's a decent sized space) but found it was way too much build up, so I moved back to original set up in more of an open space in my L-shaped room so there is a lot of open space around the kit without dominating the space. Getting ready to dial it all in and this is very helpful!
Thanks for another great video. I've never personally recorded drums, all my experience is live in small venues - which creates a host of other issues, especially if using condenser mics. Nevertheless, we often live stream through the board so require mics to pick the kit up. I hear more cymbal with the overheads low, and I like that, and it gives us more snare and toms. I also mic the kick at or in the port, but really like the idea of the mic on the beater skin in certain circumstances. I only need to mic the kick when we're not livestreaming (because most drummers are not very good at adjusting themselves into the mix 😉)
If I only had a stereo pair of mics, I would put them several feet in front of the kit, about snare/tom height, below the crash cymbals if possible. The traditional overhead only placement, emphasizes the cymbals too much while making the kick drum almost invisible.
Great video ! I have a question: What kind of shell-mount mic holder is that at 8:00 ? I bought a set of AKG Session 1 drum mics, and the included shell clips position the mics too far into the middle of the rack toms, to where they’re in the way when I play. So far I’ve not found any clips that slide away like these; they all slide up and down and so the problem persists.
I have the e614 and I seem to have an issue with how fast they distort. An issue I never had with 184s or the haun mbc440 (which btw are fantastic sdc you should check em out )
Decreasing the distance of the OH pair from the kit will also increase the stereo width of the recording. As the config is brought closer, the outer elements of the kit (HH, cymbals, and FT) will be located closer to the extreme bounds of the Stereo Recording Angle (SRA), producing a wider recording. This can also achieved by increasing the angle of the XY or selecting a more directional polar p. The standard XY with cardioid capsules has an SRA of ~180 degrees. Using supercard capsules and angling the XY beyond 90 to 120 degrees will decrease the SRA from ~136 to 105. This is pretty close to the ORTF which has an SRA of ~95 degrees
Such a beautiful mapex saturn 3 🤤. I have one myself
Thanks Kyle. Good video. Mic'ing the snare bottom wasn't mentioned. It can be helpful when trying to get more snare attack. when used in conjunction with a snare top mic. Note: the phase should be inverted on the snare bottom mic. Often kick drums are recorded with both kick in and kick out mics. Room mics can add another dimension to the drum sound. Mic placement and experimentation is critical! The genre of the music that's being recorded should be taken into account. Lastly, everything changes in the mix. Sometimes you'll need more detail and sometimes less.
I've found that bottom mic'ing adds a lot of extra noise (just solo it up and see). This whole approach of mic'ing the bottome of the SD came from letting drummers make decisions and then trying to compensate for their unwillingness to listen to the producer. Nine times out of ten, just loosening the snares will give that attack.
@@iamtheimagedoctor Mic'ing the bottom of the snare is a very common practice, regardless where it came from. That "noise" can be desirable when blended with ST. You could make the same argument with room mics. They can be useful in certain situations.
@@clicks59 It is "common practice" recently (last 15 years) because engineers have lost the concept of how to mic drums correctly. Most new engineers haven't had the experience or the mentorship. Bernard Purdy, Hal Blaine, Steve Gadd never had a mic on the bottom of their snare drum. You say that "noise" can be desirable. Maybe I'm just old school but I like a clean, tight sound. I can't imagine Steely Dan sitting in the control room saying "What we need is more random noise in the mix." Room mics simulate the listener being in the room with the drummer. A mic on the bottom of the snare simulates the listener with his head between the drummer's knees. The old school engineers had it down: Good sounding drums in a good sounding room. Listen to Dave Brubeck "Take Five" iconic drum sound: two mics! Same with Art Blakey. One reason I'm sure Kyle didn't include bottom mic'ing in this video is because the drums sounded great, even with just the overhead and kick. What, exactly, do you think is missing?
@@iamtheimagedoctor I'm old school as well. I totally agree with your concepts but I don't believe all of the sound coming from the bottom of the snare is noise. I would never use the track by itself in a mix though. I was taught that a SB track blended with ST, OH and rooms can give the snare an edgy sound which might be desirable in certain types of music. It's more of an effect just like room mics. You might not use them but they are another tool in the toolbox come mixing day. I was fortunate to spend several years in the studio with the guy who recorded and engineered this tune. He was my teacher. ruclips.net/video/qW9mZLnQ7Yc/видео.html
I came here to make a similar comment, but I also want to add that using a dynamic mic in the bass/kick drum and a condenser mic on the outside.
Also when it comes to the inside mic, no drum is designed the same and different beaters affect the sound as well. Further that experimentation by taking the reso head off and moving the inside mic around to find “the sweet spot.”
Overall, I find this to be a good video for beginners, but maybe a video sharing the more complex aspects of drum micing might be a good idea.
Great test and shootout, amazing how mic position really changes the tone
Very educative comparison, thank you.
The Kompact is great because it is voiced very similarly to the original and isn’t overly ‘crisp’ like the Mk. II. No more needing to shell out for a 40 year old mic that needs rebuilt!
Also I was bummed that it has a plastic body until I realized that 1) it is glass-fibre loaded and thus amazingly tough for how light it is and 2) it refuses to resonate no matter what you throw it on.
This is excellent. I am a newby at mic'ing drums and after a mild non-desctructive 'flooding'of my studio space I just reset the kit and mic's and am going to be dialing them in. There is a lot to mic'ing drums isn't there? I had made the mistake of using a stereo AT822 as an overhead not realizing it was a close proximity stereo mic. I now have one AT4033 I am going to try as an overhead, AKG D112 for BD, SM57 on snare, AT SD condenser on HH, 2 of the old Radio Shack 'Sennheisers' on high and mid toms, and Yamaha classic MZ204? something on low tom, Oh and one of the RS's on the beater side of BD. I have the similar setup with low ceilings, and when re-setting I had the kit in a corner (it's a decent sized space) but found it was way too much build up, so I moved back to original set up in more of an open space in my L-shaped room so there is a lot of open space around the kit without dominating the space. Getting ready to dial it all in and this is very helpful!
Now I’m all ears on this VLOG!!
Nice, detailed video. A lot of useful information for anyone new to studio recording.
Thanks for another great video. I've never personally recorded drums, all my experience is live in small venues - which creates a host of other issues, especially if using condenser mics. Nevertheless, we often live stream through the board so require mics to pick the kit up. I hear more cymbal with the overheads low, and I like that, and it gives us more snare and toms. I also mic the kick at or in the port, but really like the idea of the mic on the beater skin in certain circumstances. I only need to mic the kick when we're not livestreaming (because most drummers are not very good at adjusting themselves into the mix 😉)
These are genuinely so helpful thankyou!
Wow I’m surprised how much cleaner the kick sounds at a medium distance
If I only had a stereo pair of mics, I would put them several feet in front of the kit, about snare/tom height, below the crash cymbals if possible.
The traditional overhead only placement, emphasizes the cymbals too much while making the kick drum almost invisible.
Great video !
I have a question: What kind of shell-mount mic holder is that at 8:00 ? I bought a set of AKG Session 1 drum mics, and the included shell clips position the mics too far into the middle of the rack toms, to where they’re in the way when I play. So far I’ve not found any clips that slide away like these; they all slide up and down and so the problem persists.
These clips come with the mics, but I believe you can buy the MD421 mount a la carte.
@ Yes ! I already found them and ordered from Musicians Friend online. Thank you !
I had a dozen standard 421's but those kompakt 421's look like the ticket . Many thanks for the content !
Awesome video! That's how I'm doing it!
I have the e614 and I seem to have an issue with how fast they distort. An issue I never had with 184s or the haun mbc440 (which btw are fantastic sdc you should check em out )
I noticed the crashes getting a lot harsher the lower the overheads were.
That snare itself doesn't seem to have very much low end punch. Probably better for funk than rock.
I find it to be over dampened. The tape, the wallet… tune it up and let it sing.
Decreasing the distance of the OH pair from the kit will also increase the stereo width of the recording. As the config is brought closer, the outer elements of the kit (HH, cymbals, and FT) will be located closer to the extreme bounds of the Stereo Recording Angle (SRA), producing a wider recording. This can also achieved by increasing the angle of the XY or selecting a more directional polar p. The standard XY with cardioid capsules has an SRA of ~180 degrees. Using supercard capsules and angling the XY beyond 90 to 120 degrees will decrease the SRA from ~136 to 105. This is pretty close to the ORTF which has an SRA of ~95 degrees
Typo in title, thanks for another video!
Micing not mixing. Some of you guys should try watching videos before you run to the comments
@@JEBJOSH I'm not a native English speaker, but I'll be taking this into account. It confused me but the new title is very understandable.
@@HilbertSpacersson sorry about that. Well we’re glad he changed the title 🙂. Also great you’re learning English.
@@JEBJOSH you were right to point me out so the end result is what matters. Have a nice day.