On the one hand I miss all the talking with chat. On the other hand, this is the clearest on what's happening, and fasted battle report yet. I normally don't finish the battle reports because I don't have time.
Not going to lie. I like this video format more. No online trolls ruining your good time. It works better when two friends are having fun than when trolls are trying to derail the game for their own giggles. Glad to see you guys back to basics.
@@cormacgeraghty1710 That may be the thing. Last week their game got almost derailed by the live chats. And it felt like the chats were purposefully trying to ruin the game by talking about everything but Warhammer. That and the scatter dice nonsense.
It’s difficult to balance because the live stream format benefits the 300 people watching a lot but the other thousands who weren’t there don’t. However, those 300 people are the ones who are also likely to be paying members of the channel, I.e. driving the business. It’s not wrong or right, but it does have pros & cons. I agree with you where I prefer this content more but I also enjoy the live streams as they are.
1:06:52 "I did a march block and I failed, I rolled a 10 so he didn't march" Because of the Fly special rule, he doesn't need to roll a Leadership test to march within 8" of an enemy unit.
I know you guys have an insane amount of experience, and this is an extremely niche personal view, but I, as a newcomer to TOW, would appreciate it if you looked up the rules more for cases where you're not 100% sure on what the unit's stats are for LD tests or which rolls hit/wound. 20+ years ago I've dabbled a smidge into Fantasy and now I want to go into TOW properly. All the rules and mechanics feel very daunting and it usually helps me personally to follow rules by the letter instead of going by what my gut says as kind of a guiding rope if that makes sense.
When playing with your friends I prefer the look it up after the game (if you remember) so the game flows a bit better. At least as long as both of you agree on how to resolve this well enough.
Why were the pistoleers straight off the table? The max fallback in good order would be a 6" (maybe less I didn't see if a roll was even made), surely they weren't that close to a table edge?
Great game guys, keep that Old World content coming! However, I don't think you can use Veteran on break tests (I think it literally says any Leadership test except break tests).
One thought on audio. I think you should consider running these in stereo. The audio gets a little squashed and "clippy" in mono, especially if the guys get excited or talk over each other. It happens. Dividing the audio to both channels will create more separation. Just make sure to have Steve's mic mainly in the Left channel and Luca's mainly Right.
I'm really enjoying the content, guys! I do want to point out something I've been noticing in many of your games, though. When it comes to shooting with skirmishers, it appears you are allowing partially or completely obscured models to shoot without modifiers and/or when their line of sight is blocked. Skirmishers can block line of sight to other models - even models in their own unit.
They also forgot -1 to hit when shooting AT skirmishers. The elves were shooting -1 for multiple shots -1 for long range, shooting skirmishing pistoliers which should have been another -1
That is technically true, but in practice it makes more sense to allow skirmishers to (reasonably) shoot with all models. Otherwise it takes forever to place them and just gives "that guy" vibes. Because you CAN always place them in such a manner, after all, how much space is required to draw a LoS? It is a virtual idea, 1/1000000000 of an inch would be enough, and then we'd end up arguing about the size of a molecule. And as long as both agree not to use it to create "gotcha" moments, it is just a qol change, imo. Alternatively 'standard' patterns of placement or trays could be used to the same effect.
The first Unit the panic (empire) don’t use the moral- and reroll-bonus from BSB and general. Because? And i'm not sure that the mage can fligh that way behind her lines? She's circe around and around but they have to wheel like a normal unit and she cant circel arround her middle to look in any direction she want?!
There is discussion about the rules for the scatter die. Roughly the rules about random directions says use a scatter die and the scatter die rules say if a hit is rolled it doesn’t move. The rules for the little arrow on a hit are only in specific war machines. Obviously people disagree saying it should be as old editions but basically it comes down to agreeing with your opponent until an FAQ decides it and they had decided to go with the new rules at the time of recording.
Interesting, that seems like a large leap since the rulebook never tells us "how to use a scatter die" or "how to determine a random direction". There are only two places I could find that indicate how to use a scatter die (specifically the hit! Symbol) one is for the special rule "Scatter" and the other is under "warmachines" and they both say something different. It certainly needs an faq but I don't understand how something can move 6" in no direction. And still satisfy the requirement of moving it d6" in a random direction. Basically what would make the scatter die "overwrite" the d6?
@@christopherblackburn6811it doesn't matter. The hit symbol has an arrow on it to indicate direction. The only time the hit symbol is mentioned as having any purpose is in the bombardment rules where it specifically says scatter. Bombardment does not say move in a random direction it says scatter. And scatter is its own rule. Unless it says 'scatter' you dont use the scatter rule. Note that all artillery that scatter specifically say to scatter Rules as written the template must move d6 in a random direction. The hit symbol on the die is irrelevant and you use the arrow on it instead
@@tomclough7056the only rules for determining a random direction involve using the scatter die rules and the scatter die rules include rules for what happens when a hit is rolled
This has inspired me to try out an empire army with knights panther, knights of blazing sun and knights of white wolf.and finish making my soulskull dark elf army 😂
Hello guys and all the members of the community reading this. From my Empire players' community in Spain, we have certain doubts about the rules that we believe that the rulebook doesn't clarify, and maybe someone can help us. I'm going to list a set of doubts/questions to see if someone could answer. It would be of great help, and I would be very grateful. 1- **Wrath Of Winter:** Until your next Start of Turn sub-phase, this model, its mount, and any unit it has joined gain the Multiple Wounds (2) special rule. -- Does it affect shooting? 2- **Hochland Long Rifle:** A model armed with a Hochland long rifle can target a specific model within its target unit, such as a champion or a character. -- Can this model benefit from the "Look Out, Sir!" rule? In other editions, it didn't benefit, but it had -1 to hit. 3- **Steam Tank Turret:** Is it considered a breath weapon -- Can it shoot 360 degrees? 4- **Hammer Of Sigmar:** Until your next Start of Turn sub-phase, this model, its mount, and a single friendly unit that is within its Command range when this Prayer is chanted may re-roll any rolls To Hit or To Wound of a natural 1 made during the Combat phase. -- Can it reroll both, or only one of them? 5- Can the tank cannon shoot shrapnel? I hope someone can help us. Thank you very much, and greetings to all.
1.- yes- its all attack. 2.- Yes - nothing says they don't get look out sir. 3. Steam Tank is a heavy chariot with Firing Platform- all its weapons can shoot 360 degrees. 4.. Both- it is any rolls of 1. 5. Yes- this is part of the cannon fire rules.
Vortexes only trigger when they move over a unit, not when a unit moves over them. Also units that overrun and don't hit another unit can attempt to reform- I feel like there where several times this would have helped the Empire.
Sounds correct, can't think of another version (except that some trigger an effect when a unit is in proximity). Did you look it up for all of f them? Would be a good rule of thumb to remember :)
Oh but it is so much more fun when the units take the hits for running through the dangerous vortexes! Anytime Steve didn't reform after overrunning might have been because he didn't want to, or he just forgot. Well aware of the rule though!
The rules for the spells say any unit that "touchs or is moved over" suffers the damage. This comment is made a sentence after stating the vortex moves so I assume seperate thoughts and assume that a unit moving through a vortex would be touching it
@@FancyPantsDanAny enemy unit the 'moving' template touches or moves over They only deal damage while they move. Tho you still need to test for dangerous terrain as you move through them. I assume this is because if they choose to move through it they are more prepared but still doing something dangerous so...
WHAT. You can just take your cavalty and frontally charge spear units in this game and the spears get NOTHING??? Well ok, they get +1 initiative, except the charging horses/monsters get up to +3 and will almost always have better base initiative than a foot spear unit anyway? So charging horses head front into spears is a great way to kill all the spears and take no damage because of the model removal system? If I put this to my 4 year old he'd say this design is dumb. No offense.
I feel like for prerecorded batreps this takes the worst aspects of a live battle report and a prerecorded batrep. There is no live interaction which is fine, but then there is also little to no up close camera work to show cool angles of miniatures like you see on other channels.
why do you cut off (almost) 1/3rd of every battlefield? Dont get me wrong, it does look great but doesnt add anything tactical to the game, just cosmetics.
Good game but DAMN those Empire Knight plastics look SO BAD, really showing their age despite a nice paint job. I hope GW aren't stupid enough to re-release them.
@@jurgen4466 OK, that’s fair, and this is gonna sound crazy from me… but I hate redirecting, I can’t tell you why, but I have never been able to stomach it, and I very rarely do it! I understand it is a very valid tactic and has always been part of the game, but I just can’t do it
How can you say it was all legal at 30:12? That was some janky wheeling. You are supposed to go the shortest distance. The over-wheel was purely to allow the chariot to get in, and that isn't how it works. The chariot should have failed the charge. You are supposed to max alignment, but its one charge at a time, not both. When moving the Knights in first, they were clearly not maximized in alignment. How can this be justified? Thx
"Multiple Charging Units When two or more units are charging into the same arc of a single enemy unit, they are considered to move simultaneously and both units must try to bring the maximum number of models from both sides into base contact."
With strength now not removing AC any armor is much better! Also Inner Circle knights has plate armour. Only the elit can afford be equipped with plate so it is perfectly ok other Knights only have have heavy armour. Pistoliers are still a good unit. With skirmish, fire & fler and swiftstride they can be a real pain for the opponent to get rid off.
Vortex spells (and magic in general) are absolute trash in this edition. Would love to see a ToW batrep using 8th edition magic (minus the worst nuke spells). Maybe slow the pace down; it was very difficult to follow this batrep.
On the one hand I miss all the talking with chat. On the other hand, this is the clearest on what's happening, and fasted battle report yet. I normally don't finish the battle reports because I don't have time.
30:35 Cold one Charioters are WS5 :)
44:49 Veterans do not allow to reroll break tests.
Not going to lie. I like this video format more. No online trolls ruining your good time. It works better when two friends are having fun than when trolls are trying to derail the game for their own giggles. Glad to see you guys back to basics.
Are you getting mixed up between channels? It's Steve's channel they do the live streaming on, that hasn't changed.
@@cormacgeraghty1710 That may be the thing. Last week their game got almost derailed by the live chats. And it felt like the chats were purposefully trying to ruin the game by talking about everything but Warhammer. That and the scatter dice nonsense.
I prefer that format as well - but they don’t get member engagement and superchat like the live do so I get why they’d favor the later
It’s difficult to balance because the live stream format benefits the 300 people watching a lot but the other thousands who weren’t there don’t. However, those 300 people are the ones who are also likely to be paying members of the channel, I.e. driving the business. It’s not wrong or right, but it does have pros & cons. I agree with you where I prefer this content more but I also enjoy the live streams as they are.
Not going to lie, I prefer banter battle reports because they seem to be having more fun. And those 'trolls' are donors who support them.
1:06:52 "I did a march block and I failed, I rolled a 10 so he didn't march"
Because of the Fly special rule, he doesn't need to roll a Leadership test to march within 8" of an enemy unit.
Finally! I prefer recorded battle reports way over live ones.
"A Scanner Darkly" is a movie - based on the Philip K. Dick novel of the same name.
a great novel at that. A must read for anyone whos dealt with or knows someone whos dealt with substance abuse problems.
I know you guys have an insane amount of experience, and this is an extremely niche personal view, but I, as a newcomer to TOW, would appreciate it if you looked up the rules more for cases where you're not 100% sure on what the unit's stats are for LD tests or which rolls hit/wound.
20+ years ago I've dabbled a smidge into Fantasy and now I want to go into TOW properly. All the rules and mechanics feel very daunting and it usually helps me personally to follow rules by the letter instead of going by what my gut says as kind of a guiding rope if that makes sense.
When playing with your friends I prefer the look it up after the game (if you remember) so the game flows a bit better. At least as long as both of you agree on how to resolve this well enough.
I love both these factions but I must say, Steve your Imperial Griffon doesn't just look good it's amazing.
Great content guys! Love seeing the "legacy" armies get played.
The Elector Counts have indeed been summoned
No counter charge for the knights against the corsairs, the unit to be counter charged has to be cavalry, chariot or monster. Good battle.
When did the Knights counter charge corsairs? I can't remember!!
Why were the pistoleers straight off the table? The max fallback in good order would be a 6" (maybe less I didn't see if a roll was even made), surely they weren't that close to a table edge?
When firing Stand and Shoot with the Dark Riders at the General you don't suffer the penalty for long range.
True! Sometimes it's easy to miss the smaller details while the game is moving at a good pace!
Great game guys, keep that Old World content coming! However, I don't think you can use Veteran on break tests (I think it literally says any Leadership test except break tests).
Love the games! Seeing the armies all lined up always gets me hyped.
I love the paint scheme on those Blackguard. Any chance we could get a breakdown of it?
Cool batrep! I feel though that the room could use some more lighting. The video is somewhat darkish.
I'm stealing this Empire list :P Love full cav armies!
One thought on audio.
I think you should consider running these in stereo. The audio gets a little squashed and "clippy" in mono, especially if the guys get excited or talk over each other. It happens. Dividing the audio to both channels will create more separation. Just make sure to have Steve's mic mainly in the Left channel and Luca's mainly Right.
I'm really enjoying the content, guys! I do want to point out something I've been noticing in many of your games, though. When it comes to shooting with skirmishers, it appears you are allowing partially or completely obscured models to shoot without modifiers and/or when their line of sight is blocked. Skirmishers can block line of sight to other models - even models in their own unit.
They also forgot -1 to hit when shooting AT skirmishers. The elves were shooting -1 for multiple shots -1 for long range, shooting skirmishing pistoliers which should have been another -1
That is technically true, but in practice it makes more sense to allow skirmishers to (reasonably) shoot with all models.
Otherwise it takes forever to place them and just gives "that guy" vibes. Because you CAN always place them in such a manner, after all, how much space is required to draw a LoS? It is a virtual idea, 1/1000000000 of an inch would be enough, and then we'd end up arguing about the size of a molecule.
And as long as both agree not to use it to create "gotcha" moments, it is just a qol change, imo. Alternatively 'standard' patterns of placement or trays could be used to the same effect.
I believe Elemental Spirit counts only as dangerous terrain when you move through it. When it hits you, you take the D3+3 hits.
The first Unit the panic (empire) don’t use the moral- and reroll-bonus from BSB and general. Because?
And i'm not sure that the mage can fligh that way behind her lines? She's circe around and around but they have to wheel like a normal unit and she cant circel arround her middle to look in any direction she want?!
Steve hates pistoliers more than he hates high elves, and rightly so
Interesting idea to go with an all mounted army.
Why are the spells that move "number of inches in a random direction" not moving?
Is how are you rolling a 0 on a d6?
There is discussion about the rules for the scatter die. Roughly the rules about random directions says use a scatter die and the scatter die rules say if a hit is rolled it doesn’t move. The rules for the little arrow on a hit are only in specific war machines. Obviously people disagree saying it should be as old editions but basically it comes down to agreeing with your opponent until an FAQ decides it and they had decided to go with the new rules at the time of recording.
Interesting, that seems like a large leap since the rulebook never tells us "how to use a scatter die" or "how to determine a random direction".
There are only two places I could find that indicate how to use a scatter die (specifically the hit! Symbol) one is for the special rule "Scatter" and the other is under "warmachines" and they both say something different.
It certainly needs an faq but I don't understand how something can move 6" in no direction. And still satisfy the requirement of moving it d6" in a random direction. Basically what would make the scatter die "overwrite" the d6?
@@christopherblackburn6811it doesn't matter. The hit symbol has an arrow on it to indicate direction. The only time the hit symbol is mentioned as having any purpose is in the bombardment rules where it specifically says scatter. Bombardment does not say move in a random direction it says scatter. And scatter is its own rule. Unless it says 'scatter' you dont use the scatter rule. Note that all artillery that scatter specifically say to scatter
Rules as written the template must move d6 in a random direction. The hit symbol on the die is irrelevant and you use the arrow on it instead
@@tomclough7056 I genuinely don’t care either way. I was just explaining why they made the decision.
@@tomclough7056the only rules for determining a random direction involve using the scatter die rules and the scatter die rules include rules for what happens when a hit is rolled
This battle report format is the way.
Love these two guys, great work
Love the TOW content!
This has inspired me to try out an empire army with knights panther, knights of blazing sun and knights of white wolf.and finish making my soulskull dark elf army 😂
Don't forget a unit of Knights of Morr! :D
Why didn’t Steve countercharge with the
Big unit of knights…?
It's all in the wrist 😂
Wouldnt the knights overrunning into the Corsairs have been disrupted by the forest and not have gotten the charge bonus to initiative?
Disrupted is no rank bonus. Disordered charges give no initiative.
And Steve the Chariot riders are WS5
Yes fully agree. This format is best
Hello guys and all the members of the community reading this.
From my Empire players' community in Spain, we have certain doubts about the rules that we believe that the rulebook doesn't clarify, and maybe someone can help us. I'm going to list a set of doubts/questions to see if someone could answer. It would be of great help, and I would be very grateful.
1- **Wrath Of Winter:** Until your next Start of Turn sub-phase, this model, its mount, and any unit it has joined gain the Multiple Wounds (2) special rule. -- Does it affect shooting?
2- **Hochland Long Rifle:** A model armed with a Hochland long rifle can target a specific model within its target unit, such as a champion or a character. -- Can this model benefit from the "Look Out, Sir!" rule? In other editions, it didn't benefit, but it had -1 to hit.
3- **Steam Tank Turret:** Is it considered a breath weapon -- Can it shoot 360 degrees?
4- **Hammer Of Sigmar:** Until your next Start of Turn sub-phase, this model, its mount, and a single friendly unit that is within its Command range when this Prayer is chanted may re-roll any rolls To Hit or To Wound of a natural 1 made during the Combat phase. -- Can it reroll both, or only one of them?
5- Can the tank cannon shoot shrapnel?
I hope someone can help us. Thank you very much, and greetings to all.
1.- yes- its all attack.
2.- Yes - nothing says they don't get look out sir.
3. Steam Tank is a heavy chariot with Firing Platform- all its weapons can shoot 360 degrees.
4.. Both- it is any rolls of 1.
5. Yes- this is part of the cannon fire rules.
@@abeapfel8690 many thanks sir! Its help a lot! ❤
Can confirm these are correct!@@luis2864
@@abeapfel8690 *Hammer Of Sigmar* says *or* so you only get to reroll hits or wounds not both.
@@grlmgorin English the or is not exclusive in this sentence, it's inclusive.
Love this so much more than the chat version. I always have to turn the other style video off.
Single unit models like the chariot do not get close order for Combat Res.
no snickers needed for luka today? just on minor issue veteran doesn't allow break test reroll, it says in the book break test is not a ld test.
Good to know! Didn't actually know that one, Thanks!!
Vortexes only trigger when they move over a unit, not when a unit moves over them.
Also units that overrun and don't hit another unit can attempt to reform- I feel like there where several times this would have helped the Empire.
Sounds correct, can't think of another version (except that some trigger an effect when a unit is in proximity).
Did you look it up for all of f them? Would be a good rule of thumb to remember :)
Oh but it is so much more fun when the units take the hits for running through the dangerous vortexes!
Anytime Steve didn't reform after overrunning might have been because he didn't want to, or he just forgot. Well aware of the rule though!
The rules for the spells say any unit that "touchs or is moved over" suffers the damage. This comment is made a sentence after stating the vortex moves so I assume seperate thoughts and assume that a unit moving through a vortex would be touching it
@@FancyPantsDanAny enemy unit the 'moving' template touches or moves over
They only deal damage while they move. Tho you still need to test for dangerous terrain as you move through them. I assume this is because if they choose to move through it they are more prepared but still doing something dangerous so...
@@FancyPantsDan Summon Elemental Spirit says "any enemy unit the moving template touches or mover overs..." Key on the moving templet.
WHAT. You can just take your cavalty and frontally charge spear units in this game and the spears get NOTHING??? Well ok, they get +1 initiative, except the charging horses/monsters get up to +3 and will almost always have better base initiative than a foot spear unit anyway?
So charging horses head front into spears is a great way to kill all the spears and take no damage because of the model removal system?
If I put this to my 4 year old he'd say this design is dumb. No offense.
More this style please (2 per week?)
Cool as always 👍
Luca a gimbal is a real thing it is a type of stabilization device for cameras
This is true.... I was making fun of a Skaven rule from Aos! Hahaha
31:40 Cold one chariot killed 4 so would of been a tied combat also WS 5 would of got another hit.
No a fan of the top view, but I gess it was a live steam. Nonetheless, great game guys !
Fast cav should be in front of your line
How long did this video take edit? Luka is much less... verbose... than he is on MM live streams!😂😂😂
I feel like for prerecorded batreps this takes the worst aspects of a live battle report and a prerecorded batrep.
There is no live interaction which is fine, but then there is also little to no up close camera work to show cool angles of miniatures like you see on other channels.
For the Empire!!!
Unless I've mis heard
Why are you saying close order when working out who wins a fight?
It gives you +1 in combat few so long as you have 2 or models in a unit..
Combat Resolution
@@fatolaf ok.
Doesn't show that on the cheat sheet that comes with the starter boxes.
It's one of many hidden rules in this awful constructed rule book. Very easy to miss...
The MWG logo blocking the corner of the dice box was a little annoying at times, just fyi!
Nice
Druchii
US 3 doesn't cause panic
are the cold one not stupid ? great looking armys
I passed every check!! I for once, never failed!
@@lukapavicevic335 LOL i have seen your goblins run run run run last night maybe you have better luck witth the elgie
Kind regards
why do you cut off (almost) 1/3rd of every battlefield? Dont get me wrong, it does look great but doesnt add anything tactical to the game, just cosmetics.
Fun to watch you play. But I will not be returning to the old world. Thank you for uploading this bat rep.
oh please dont advertise wayland games, theyre shockingly bad
Good game but DAMN those Empire Knight plastics look SO BAD, really showing their age despite a nice paint job. I hope GW aren't stupid enough to re-release them.
You talk way to fast and stressed! You sound like a show salesman! How about slow it down a bit and add some calm to it like a newsman instead
It's a feature not a bug
When playing a DE army like this, I would move forward each turn. This is not a shooty list.
Those Demigryph Knights are big time scary! I was worried about them destroying my Black Guard in a couple of very quick combats.
You should use Dark riders to redirect opponents hard hitting units then you could move forward putting you in a good position to next turn
@@jurgen4466 OK, that’s fair, and this is gonna sound crazy from me… but I hate redirecting, I can’t tell you why, but I have never been able to stomach it, and I very rarely do it! I understand it is a very valid tactic and has always been part of the game, but I just can’t do it
How can you say it was all legal at 30:12? That was some janky wheeling. You are supposed to go the shortest distance. The over-wheel was purely to allow the chariot to get in, and that isn't how it works. The chariot should have failed the charge. You are supposed to max alignment, but its one charge at a time, not both. When moving the Knights in first, they were clearly not maximized in alignment. How can this be justified? Thx
"Multiple Charging Units
When two or more units are charging into the same arc of a
single enemy unit, they are considered to move simultaneously
and both units must try to bring the maximum number of
models from both sides into base contact."
The logo during overview phases is too much of a distraction. Would be better without it.
Nice Battle Report. I don't bother with any stream report, they're all too long, disjointed etc
Empire without 6 level 4 wizards is lame.
*Hammer Of Sigmar* says *or* so you only get to reroll hits or wounds not both.
That's not how English works.
"If you see milk or eggs at the store buy them."
That means buy both of you see both
@@armageddonbound So if I said "The meal deal comes with a Coke or Pepsi"
How many soft drinks do you get?
@@grlmgor it's not the same because that is an exclusive choice, this is saying you can reroll any failures to hit or roll.
I hate that empire knight don’t come with full plate armor. Also that games workshop ruined the pistoliers.
With strength now not removing AC any armor is much better! Also Inner Circle knights has plate armour. Only the elit can afford be equipped with plate so it is perfectly ok other Knights only have have heavy armour.
Pistoliers are still a good unit.
With skirmish, fire & fler and swiftstride they can be a real pain for the opponent to get rid off.
Inner circle and Demigryph knights have full plate.
Vortex spells (and magic in general) are absolute trash in this edition. Would love to see a ToW batrep using 8th edition magic (minus the worst nuke spells).
Maybe slow the pace down; it was very difficult to follow this batrep.
You're playing different games than I am man. Magic is indispensible.
And vortex's are the best spells for the most part