You can’t fix bass once the room is done - What Sound Engineers NEED To Know
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- Опубликовано: 30 янв 2024
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Let me paraphrase an email I get about 3 times a day:
“Jescooooo the low end in my room is messed up, what do I need to do!?!”
“But I can’t move my desk, it’s way too heavy, and the room also doubles as my office, my wife’s hobby room and storage for my pinball machine collection!”
“Basically I can’t change a thing..”
🤦
Obviously I’m being sarcastic.
But I’m sure you can feel the underlying truth as you’re reading this.
And to be honest, I don’t respond negatively to these types of emails, because we all have to go through this process to learn the all important lesson:
You can’t fix the low end once the room is done.
That’s because we need to attack the low end problem in our home studios from different angles that are all important:
- Room geometry
- Listener and speaker placement
- Treatment
- EQ
And that requires careful attention right from the beginning of setting up our room.
Let me explain what I mean in this week’s video on “What sound engineers NEED to know”:
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Thanks Jesco, well-said. This is a reality that many people are unwilling to confront. To address low-frequency issues, one truly needs to start from the fundamentals
Awesome video Jesco - as always. My main lesson learned besides the truth, that you should pay attention right from the start when setting up the room initially, is that rooms will tell their own tales. My office e.g. made it so hard for me to find the best sounding bass, meaning max. balance in frequencies, clear and accurate. It was a small-ish squared room (3,5x3,65m), the perfectly imperfect conditions. Your explanatory step by step guide gave me the patience to keep hunting for the small wins. The living room on the other hand was giving me clear signs for low end do’s and don’ts - magically luring me towards the sweet spot. The room being both different and bigger in size as well as having better-to-handle room modes, the low-end sweet spot was much easier to detect. I’m still not sure I’ve found it in my office but I got much closer.
All in all, don’t give up folks and be both patient and happy about small wins in the environment you are dealing with. Accept what you can’t change and work with what you’ve got. Even 10cm can make the difference. That’s what she said. Good luck with the plant.
Hi Jesco, I burst out laughing when I read your email about people who can't change their room - my desk is in the corner and changing that is going to be painful 😀
I wish I would have discovered air gaps sooner…turning a 3 inch absorber into a 6 inch bass trap…just by adding a 3 inch air gap…that isn’t talked about enough
I've been shocked how well this works as well. A gap makes a huge difference! For testing, I lean panels against the wall at different angles to get an idea how much gap is best. Not precision, but effective
Hello folks.
It's all about one simple thing. Just remember the basic fundamentals of wherever is required on any given task at hand of your desires.
Don't justify or worry about it. I sure did made an pure mess, just trying to screw back in the woofer. We all know screws goes into the mounting hole on the driver frame. My speaker I call them, Blinky and Winky now, as the patch losses up with personality that will always remember to flap at me. So try not to be to hard on yourself as most times we've can be doing the most damages that will stop you as it did to me. Moving forward the goal just change your plan in how will you get there.
Trail and error occurred as the mistake teaches. Few things in audio was found from doing a mistake. Cheer up.
I feel the panel gap similar to bass tarp inner piece duty.
What comes around goes around and back at yeah in a better sounding way.
Treat this topic videos one at a time. They all have the same goal in mind. Add one idea on to, with another idea to develop.
❤
This is where I'm at. When I first switched from Auralex to Broadband Rockwool panels about 10 years ago, I just put them in the main reflelection points and corners and called it a day. A few years ago, when searching for a new pair of monitors, it was clear to me I had a low-end issue,
Been watching a ton of your videos over the last few months. I tried starting from scratch by removing all my current panels and doing the bass hunter technique, but it wasn't obvious where the right place was. Honestly, it's not getting any easier. Still sounds like voodoo. So much contradictory advice. I'll keep trying, though.
The bass hunter isn’t a magic fix. Listen to where you feel like the low end the “best”. It’s still not going to be perfect, as the room is untreated! Don’t overthink it. Find your listening spot and then treat.
@@ryanmondak1844 I think the OP just meant exactly this - what you define as "best"? When everything is booming and ringing, it indeed is becoming a voodoo. Also, it's not that hard to be trapped into a false sweet spot, where everything sounds "fantastic", which, again, is an illusion, which might be caused by some cancellations.
The bottom line is that you either estimate by eye, knowing that some bass traps are better than nothing or look for an acoustician to help you on a more effective level, if this is necessary.
To my opinion, the whole idea of turning a living space into "professional" studio is inherently wrong and crazy. A couple of bass traps in the corners and 2 pairs of good headphones are just enough. Even symmetry is often a luxury in most of the living spaces.
@@zerobject not sure if you have tried it before but you can definitely tell (with trained ears ) what area is the “best” regarding cancellations and more even areas when using this technique.
I think it does take some practice and knowledge but it is achievable to get great results from someone who is not an acoustician.
@@ryanmondak1844 I'm ok with all of the above. What I meant is that "best", "great" etc seem too strong for what we are talking about - living spaces. At least, to my humble experience. None of them sound even descent, because that is usually not the point.
Then again, if you mean a studio space, built from scratch up to your standards, then maybe its worth all the hassle.
We used to build one a couple of years ago and it sounded very good without "all the voodoo". We just normally built a room in a room and used a 38% guide as a starting point. We didn't know about this Hunter technique, so, yes, I'm curious how much of a difference it does in a decently made studio, not in the living room, where even symmetry is often luxurious.
Here is something i wish i knew:
Room measurements. Very easy to do.
Using the basshunter technique, my low end sweet spot was in a place that gave me a narrow 30db dip at 60 Hz.
Couldnt pick up on it at all by ear
I think that a lot of us are in the position of not being able to do anything about the core room, some of us even have a problem placing their listening position in the optimal spot. A home studio is more often than not a bunch of compromises. My personal listening spot is not in the absolute best spot, and the guest spot (aka sofa) is in the spot with the most bass. But with a combination of absorption and room eq it's quite decent. I can even see that adding some more strategic absorption will further improve things. #Adventure
Built all panels 6" thick. Walls and clouds. Gotta tackle the bass traps next.
Those are “bass traps” :)
What do you think about holes in the table? Helps with reflections?
DAMM!T Brotha just when everything was starting to connect and sound really good, I figured I’d just fix the low end up later… son of a baker this Phucking physics is phrusterating 😂
hello , i got a living room . with 6 monster big bass trap at corner & first reflction point. also got cloud trap covered . fron wall and side are big pannel 10cm . but i still lack of bass 100hz-200hz 6db bump , under 100hz its a big dip .. 300.-500hz is a little dip -3db , beyond 500hz its all good almost like a flat line . is that SBIR thing ?
I have a pair of Focal Trio 11 BE monitors and they are laying sideways on my desk and I’m trying to get rid of desk reflections. My question is does reflections come mainly from the mid-range/bass driver or also from the tweeters? I tried moving my monitors onto stands but the reflections remained. I’m just trying to figure this out.
Hi Jesco 👋
When starting bass hunting, in which corner should I place my speaker if I have an asymmetrical room?
It's not easy to choose the listening position when you only have a right triangle room, a window, a door and few gears :(
Can you use AMROC to visualize where the possible best listening position would be for bass? Would you want your listening position to be in an area where the least amount of nulls and nodes?
It will be theorical only, wall needs to have the same density for this to be exact (door and windows included)
Praying for Gang every Night 😔🙏 get well soon!!
I think your plant looks healthy 🌱
If I do a 6dB bass cut at say 80hz, wouldn’t that reduce ringing by putting less energy into the room?
If you have a resonance at 80Hz in your room and at your listening position, a 6dB cut won't reduce the "ringing", it will just make the ringing start 6dB quieter. There will still be an energy decay time at that frequency. I've learned from watchin a lot of Jescos content that the primary goal for mixing studios is for sound energy to decay evenly across all frequencies.
Maybe just get to the point right from the start of the video? Typical youtubers trying to waste everyone's time by just talking trash... This video could be done in hardly 3 minutes if you would've prepared a little. Remove all the non sense talking man! Stop wasting time of your viewers!!!!