Thanks Ninah! I did my best to analyse the tool fairly vs the alternatives, as well as highlight what is unique to it (aside from just being in Revit).
Cheers Benjamin! Yeah I feel this section was necessary given everyone is still trying to understand the tool and what it can really do for them. There'll be a similar style summary of the rhino/gh workflow today, comes out in about an hour!
@@AussieBIMGuru I love it. We've also just put out a LabLive on this topic, which speaks about similar items you touch upon. I think you were more concise on some of items regarding GD: so KUDOS!!
Excellent job. Can you also design a script for interior design layouts with office, workstations, and common support spaces (staff, storage, washroom & meeting rooms)?
Unfortunately this is quite complex - there are a lot of relationships between these facilities (e.g. the toilet count and desk count). I would recommend you have a try at this one yourself as it will be more beneficial to your immediate needs and will better give your learning a push. Begin with major facilities, then calculate the remaining area's relationship for desk/corridor/amenity count before trying to generate the remainder.
Very well made video, rich in content and usefull information for beginners and advanced users alike. I suspect that generative design, although starting from geometry will have much more practical implications in other aspects of design, and decision making. Just a matter of time until other properties get quantified and assigned a relative value parameter to compare results. 32:33 Hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. Thx for the video and keep up the good stuff.
Thanks Vuk! The potential applications are indeed vast, it really comes down to our creativity and time available to set up a study at the end of the day.
Great video thanks - a lot of videos out there showing how to run the inbuilt studies as you said but this really helped me get a handle on this tool and it’s (current) limitations. You mentioned isovists, I’m currently fighting with the space analysis toolkit, you got any plans to drop a video about that?. Cheers.
Glad it helped give a better example! I find not enough resources focus on the script itself so wanted to cover a start to finish example. In regards to the toolkits, I've experimented with a few but couldn't get very meaningful results from them. For example I tried the space layout tool but the output is just a functional relationship diagram essentially - everyone expects it to make a floor plan it seems. In regards to isovists I typically use Ladybug for Grasshopper via Rhino Inside for isovist studies as the tool in Revit is too slow to do bulk studies. It can do one just fine, but once you go past 30 or so (or have a detailed site model) it typically spins out the session I've found.
Guide for using the tool in student version can be found here; revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
Wao this demo is quite interesting. Thanks a lot for sharing your wealth of experience. please I want to find out if Grasshopper can be integrated into Revit program. cheers
The script files can be found on my github. For the model itself, model the context in place as extrusions and draw your site boundary as a property line, the script should be fairly easy to adjust (just chance the inputs).
Just experimenting with software mostly! I do a lot of research in my downtime, and have for about 8 years now. I find once you pick up a few skills in computation the rest snowballs from there - many workflows are related or share common components.
As you said it is not supported in Student License, Is there any other options like Dynamo Package or Plugin in Revit where I can use the Generative Design? I did hear about Refinery Tool, Is it helpful in same and available in market for free?
The tool is available within Dynamo 2021 for student version, just not in the Revit ribbon as an app. revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
Hi, the demo is so interesting but I have some problems using the generative design tools. I'm using the student version Revit 2021, already downloaded dynamo, but I don't have the generative design tab in the Manage section. Is there anything i've missed?
Student build only provides access to the study via Dynamo I believe. The product manager shared this brochure with me which is meant to show how; revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
@@AussieBIMGuru Thanks for the polite and fast response! I'm trying to build a dynamo script for automated layout of composite objects(chairs, tables, some interior related stuffs). I've been searching all the youtube, but it seems that i need the AEC collection version :(
Yes unfortunately to place families this is required. I believe if you track the inputs that were 'successful' back into your script you could run the final result as a placement from dynamo itself however.
hello mr BİM guru, I think my question will be independent of the subject. Can't we make the plugins we want to use with Revit APİ ? How important do you think it is to specialize in Revit APİ ?
You can make plugins with API and C#, but the question is do you need to? Many plugins exist already that do many things, and Dynamo is also capable of many processes. Make sure to consider these before exploring this possibility. Personally I haven't found the need to build plugins yet as Dynamo/Python do what I need in most cases. Having said that, don't let me hold back your curiosity, although keep in mind C# will take a while to learn and you'll need to explore resources by others out there. I'd start with Jeremy Tammik's work and blog.
Hi ABG. appreciate your video. Was trying to follow your steps, but however it seems that my OUT_Height variables stuck at a single value only instead of giving me options with different heights. I might miss out some of your steps. Checked all of my settings. Seems ok. Appreciate your feedback.
This sounds like a common issue where the GD tool clashes with other addins and doesn't allow flexing of inputs. I've since large-in-part given up on this tool as many people encountered this bug and the development team typically couldn't give an easy solution. Make sure your nodes are identified as outputs and you use the remember node, otherwise it is probably a technical issue with the software: forum.dynamobim.com/t/generative-design-output-node-are-not-reading/55906
This is precisely the problem with the tool. Timestamp 30.35. Autodesk pulls out new workflows and they don't sustain. The same happened with fractal. I think one of the Dynamo makers must really intervene in the C / C++ code pipeline and try to enhance the Geometry Kernel. Although as said by you earlier Revit is basically playing with Database. There could be some solutions that could be pointed out by DevOps guys.
It's not perfect by any means, in Thursday's video I'll show Galapagos using Rhino Inside which addresses some of the geometry limits in a different form. The main benefit I see for the tool is introducing more users to generative design, but not necessarily only using this tool - just as a starting point. Many Dynamo users (even myself) did not consider using Grasshopper until Dynamo sold them on visual coding. I think this will play out similarly, and Generative design needs awareness to be raised - it's still large in part poorly understood and utilized by the industry. I believe there has been some work done on the underlying Dynamo geometry preview system in version 2.5, but definitely still work to be done. The challenge is its always hinging from Revit which isn't as strong an engine as Rhino3d. Conversely Rhino3d is not a powerful BIM platform, rather than try to get a dog to meow, maybe we just learn to get the 'cat and the dog' to work better for us together :)
Hello, We did the same exercise with same steps, by when we apply generative design the outputs are not appearing, can you figure out what is the problem?
@@AussieBIMGuru I saw that there, they talked about a node that is not working properly, but nothing is shown in dynamo that there is something not working properly, I updated the generative design to 2.5 version and still same issue. plz can you provide us link for this topic in the forum?
Yes if you're not sure just make a new topic on the forums. The developers of the generative design tool are there and know most of the common errors it can face.
Hello Gavin, I have attempted to recreate your workflow in Dynamo (Revit 2022) and my studies are returning results of differnt positions but identical heights. So then I simply downloaded your dynamo script (and replaced the Watch nodes bc of version incompatility) and ran the study, but i have the same issue. Do you have any idea why this might be happening? Thank You.
Hrm unfortunately I'm not sure. I recently ran this study and it worked for me in 2022. My only guess is maybe you havent nominated the width/depth as inputs as these drive the height.
@@AussieBIMGuru That wasn't it, but at some point in the script I changed the value type from integer to float and its working now. I have even extended your workflow, by adding outputs like "% of blocked views" and "estimated building costs". Now its a multi objective optimization problem. I have also made an interesting discovery: when I do a cross product of the coordinates, while keeping the height constant (about as high as the tallest surrounding buildings), go to the scatter plot and set x and y to the coordinates of the building and color in the dots according to yield, I get a really interesting heat map type graph that tells me that the corridor from top left to bottom right is optimal for views. Thanks a lot for this workflow, it's been a great starting point for me to discover visual programming and generative design.
No a floor plan introduces the need for space planning - this takea a lot of time to set up. I have an articls here that explains why space planning jn generative design is possible, but very timely; www.bimguru.com.au/post/generative-design-problematic-solution There is a link to an example with a residential house including a rigid space plan which may help.
@@AussieBIMGuru Okay. Thanks a lot man, your videos and articles have been very useful! I am very new to this and I am looking forward to go through all your stuff to get a grasp in dynamo. Great work!
Hello Aussie BIM Guru. For those having issues in updating the Generative Design to get the package, could you please share your Generative Design Package with us for installation. My Humble request
I would get in touch with the product manager, Lilli Smith - either via Dynamo forums or LinkedIn. She actually provided a link to a resource that explained how to access the tool as a student before too; revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf I am unable to distribute the software personally, as my version is tied to my AEC Collection subscription so comes packaged with Revit and Dynamo.
Thanks for this great video! Really like your example and the way you teach it. I do want to point out though that everything that you're doing in this video IS available for student users of Revit 2021 via Dynamo for Revit 2021- you CAN Create Studies and Explore Outcomes directly from Dynamo. Here is a document that explains the licensing a bit more revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf. The main value that we were trying to add with the AEC Collections "generative player" if you will, is a way for NON-Dynamo scripters to be able to use the tool. If you are creating your own scripts as many students do and we love to encourage, you should be able to use the tool with a student license. Let me know if there is something we're not realizing that is keeping you from this. Thanks again for the great video - we'll look forward to seeing more! Lilli Smith Sr. Product Manager AEC Generative Design Autodesk
I'm on a collection lisence so wasn't able to cross check personally, probably should have. Apologies for that. Many students came to me claiming they couldn't access the tool but I now see they must have meant th Revit tool itself. Your guide is much clearer than what I'd found so appreciate sharing that. I'll try to edit in a link over the video tomorrow to fix up my criticism, good to see students can at least experiment with the tool in Dynamo itself. Can students still source model elements in the dynamo workflows as part of the overall script? Im reading it as only preventing revit element selection via the UI itself.
@@AussieBIMGuru Yes students can still source model elements - exactly like you're doing. When you publish, just don't clear the cache. You could also turn off the "is input" for the select in Revit nodes for the Create Study UI because if you run it from Dynamo it won't let you select new geometry.
Awesome, I stand corrected. Thanks for making this available to students in a practically complete capacity! I now know how to help them if they have trouble with licensing too. I've queued up a video trim, neat little RUclips trick that can help me remove my misinformation :)
Dear Aussie Bim Guru, I had some questions pertaining the GD algorithm creating process and it would be really helpful if you could check your email please! Thank you!
I really want to thank you for all your excellent tutorials and your will to teach people
You're very welcome!
Very well balanced and unbiased presentation, gives the audience a level field to think through options. Much appreciated....
Thanks Ninah! I did my best to analyse the tool fairly vs the alternatives, as well as highlight what is unique to it (aside from just being in Revit).
Great Video! I especially enjoyed the good, bad and ugly portion
Cheers Benjamin! Yeah I feel this section was necessary given everyone is still trying to understand the tool and what it can really do for them.
There'll be a similar style summary of the rhino/gh workflow today, comes out in about an hour!
@@AussieBIMGuru I love it. We've also just put out a LabLive on this topic, which speaks about similar items you touch upon. I think you were more concise on some of items regarding GD: so KUDOS!!
Excellent job. Can you also design a script for interior design layouts with office, workstations, and common support spaces (staff, storage, washroom & meeting rooms)?
Unfortunately this is quite complex - there are a lot of relationships between these facilities (e.g. the toilet count and desk count).
I would recommend you have a try at this one yourself as it will be more beneficial to your immediate needs and will better give your learning a push. Begin with major facilities, then calculate the remaining area's relationship for desk/corridor/amenity count before trying to generate the remainder.
Very well made video, rich in content and usefull information for beginners and advanced users alike.
I suspect that generative design, although starting from geometry will have much more practical implications in other aspects of design, and decision making. Just a matter of time until other properties get quantified and assigned a relative value parameter to compare results.
32:33 Hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.
Thx for the video and keep up the good stuff.
Thanks Vuk!
The potential applications are indeed vast, it really comes down to our creativity and time available to set up a study at the end of the day.
Great video thanks - a lot of videos out there showing how to run the inbuilt studies as you said but this really helped me get a handle on this tool and it’s (current) limitations. You mentioned isovists, I’m currently fighting with the space analysis toolkit, you got any plans to drop a video about that?. Cheers.
Glad it helped give a better example! I find not enough resources focus on the script itself so wanted to cover a start to finish example.
In regards to the toolkits, I've experimented with a few but couldn't get very meaningful results from them. For example I tried the space layout tool but the output is just a functional relationship diagram essentially - everyone expects it to make a floor plan it seems.
In regards to isovists I typically use Ladybug for Grasshopper via Rhino Inside for isovist studies as the tool in Revit is too slow to do bulk studies. It can do one just fine, but once you go past 30 or so (or have a detailed site model) it typically spins out the session I've found.
thank you for your efforts, I thought GD has no practical application. great work!
You're welcome!
Guide for using the tool in student version can be found here;
revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
Wao this demo is quite interesting. Thanks a lot for sharing your wealth of experience.
please I want to find out if Grasshopper can be integrated into Revit program.
cheers
You're welcome!
rhino.inside
Hello Aussie BIM Guru, thank you for the great demo, is it possible to share your demo files so that I can practise myself?
The script files can be found on my github. For the model itself, model the context in place as extrusions and draw your site boundary as a property line, the script should be fairly easy to adjust (just chance the inputs).
@@AussieBIMGuru Thank you!
great video, How do you know all of that stuff?
Just experimenting with software mostly! I do a lot of research in my downtime, and have for about 8 years now. I find once you pick up a few skills in computation the rest snowballs from there - many workflows are related or share common components.
@@AussieBIMGuru thanks for sharing
Thanks man
You're welcome!
As you said it is not supported in Student License, Is there any other options like Dynamo Package or Plugin in Revit where I can use the Generative Design? I did hear about Refinery Tool, Is it helpful in same and available in market for free?
The tool is available within Dynamo 2021 for student version, just not in the Revit ribbon as an app.
revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
@@AussieBIMGuru Oh Okay I see. I can try in Dynamo then. Thanks a lot.
Hi, the demo is so interesting but I have some problems using the generative design tools. I'm using the student version Revit 2021, already downloaded dynamo, but I don't have the generative design tab in the Manage section. Is there anything i've missed?
Student build only provides access to the study via Dynamo I believe.
The product manager shared this brochure with me which is meant to show how;
revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
@@AussieBIMGuru Thanks for the polite and fast response! I'm trying to build a dynamo script for automated layout of composite objects(chairs, tables, some interior related stuffs). I've been searching all the youtube, but it seems that i need the AEC collection version :(
Yes unfortunately to place families this is required. I believe if you track the inputs that were 'successful' back into your script you could run the final result as a placement from dynamo itself however.
Nice job
Thanks!
hello mr BİM guru,
I think my question will be independent of the subject.
Can't we make the plugins we want to use with Revit APİ ?
How important do you think it is to specialize in Revit APİ ?
You can make plugins with API and C#, but the question is do you need to?
Many plugins exist already that do many things, and Dynamo is also capable of many processes.
Make sure to consider these before exploring this possibility. Personally I haven't found the need to build plugins yet as Dynamo/Python do what I need in most cases.
Having said that, don't let me hold back your curiosity, although keep in mind C# will take a while to learn and you'll need to explore resources by others out there. I'd start with Jeremy Tammik's work and blog.
@@AussieBIMGuru Thank you for the answer,
I follow you with admiration.
have a nice day
what are all these icons in your toolbar ? ;)
ruclips.net/video/8kGlMcQVpYQ/видео.html
Hi ABG. appreciate your video. Was trying to follow your steps, but however it seems that my OUT_Height variables stuck at a single value only instead of giving me options with different heights. I might miss out some of your steps. Checked all of my settings. Seems ok. Appreciate your feedback.
This sounds like a common issue where the GD tool clashes with other addins and doesn't allow flexing of inputs. I've since large-in-part given up on this tool as many people encountered this bug and the development team typically couldn't give an easy solution. Make sure your nodes are identified as outputs and you use the remember node, otherwise it is probably a technical issue with the software:
forum.dynamobim.com/t/generative-design-output-node-are-not-reading/55906
Thanks for the video BiM Guru
You're welcome!
This is precisely the problem with the tool. Timestamp 30.35. Autodesk pulls out new workflows and they don't sustain. The same happened with fractal. I think one of the Dynamo makers must really intervene in the C / C++ code pipeline and try to enhance the Geometry Kernel. Although as said by you earlier Revit is basically playing with Database. There could be some solutions that could be pointed out by DevOps guys.
It's not perfect by any means, in Thursday's video I'll show Galapagos using Rhino Inside which addresses some of the geometry limits in a different form.
The main benefit I see for the tool is introducing more users to generative design, but not necessarily only using this tool - just as a starting point. Many Dynamo users (even myself) did not consider using Grasshopper until Dynamo sold them on visual coding. I think this will play out similarly, and Generative design needs awareness to be raised - it's still large in part poorly understood and utilized by the industry.
I believe there has been some work done on the underlying Dynamo geometry preview system in version 2.5, but definitely still work to be done. The challenge is its always hinging from Revit which isn't as strong an engine as Rhino3d. Conversely Rhino3d is not a powerful BIM platform, rather than try to get a dog to meow, maybe we just learn to get the 'cat and the dog' to work better for us together :)
Hello, We did the same exercise with same steps, by when we apply generative design the outputs are not appearing, can you figure out what is the problem?
I've seen many reasons for this unfortunately. I'd suggest going over to the forums to troubleshoot with the product team.
@@AussieBIMGuru I saw that there, they talked about a node that is not working properly, but nothing is shown in dynamo that there is something not working properly, I updated the generative design to 2.5 version and still same issue. plz can you provide us link for this topic in the forum?
@@ds-pro1307 i am not sure which topic you mean, I would make a new one
Yes if you're not sure just make a new topic on the forums. The developers of the generative design tool are there and know most of the common errors it can face.
Hello Gavin, I have attempted to recreate your workflow in Dynamo (Revit 2022) and my studies are returning results of differnt positions but identical heights. So then I simply downloaded your dynamo script (and replaced the Watch nodes bc of version incompatility) and ran the study, but i have the same issue. Do you have any idea why this might be happening? Thank You.
Hrm unfortunately I'm not sure. I recently ran this study and it worked for me in 2022. My only guess is maybe you havent nominated the width/depth as inputs as these drive the height.
@@AussieBIMGuru That wasn't it, but at some point in the script I changed the value type from integer to float and its working now.
I have even extended your workflow, by adding outputs like "% of blocked views" and "estimated building costs". Now its a multi objective optimization problem.
I have also made an interesting discovery: when I do a cross product of the coordinates, while keeping the height constant (about as high as the tallest surrounding buildings), go to the scatter plot and set x and y to the coordinates of the building and color in the dots according to yield, I get a really interesting heat map type graph that tells me that the corridor from top left to bottom right is optimal for views.
Thanks a lot for this workflow, it's been a great starting point for me to discover visual programming and generative design.
Hi, is it possible to create a school architectural plan similar to the property plan and building blocks you have made in revit and do a study ?
No a floor plan introduces the need for space planning - this takea a lot of time to set up.
I have an articls here that explains why space planning jn generative design is possible, but very timely;
www.bimguru.com.au/post/generative-design-problematic-solution
There is a link to an example with a residential house including a rigid space plan which may help.
@@AussieBIMGuru Okay. Thanks a lot man, your videos and articles have been very useful! I am very new to this and I am looking forward to go through all your stuff to get a grasp in dynamo. Great work!
@@azramaliha you're welcome! I'd suggest checking out what the TestFit team is up to - I reckon they'll crack school layouts before GD does.
@@AussieBIMGuru sure! Thanks a lot.
Hello Aussie BIM Guru. For those having issues in updating the Generative Design to get the package, could you please share your Generative Design Package with us for installation. My Humble request
I would get in touch with the product manager, Lilli Smith - either via Dynamo forums or LinkedIn. She actually provided a link to a resource that explained how to access the tool as a student before too;
revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf
I am unable to distribute the software personally, as my version is tied to my AEC Collection subscription so comes packaged with Revit and Dynamo.
@@AussieBIMGuru Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate that
@@RevitGord you're welcome, I reply to every comment on my channel :)
@@AussieBIMGuru Please how do I send you a personal e-mail
Thank I've gotten it
Thanks for this great video! Really like your example and the way you teach it. I do want to point out though that everything that you're doing in this video IS available for student users of Revit 2021 via Dynamo for Revit 2021- you CAN Create Studies and Explore Outcomes directly from Dynamo. Here is a document that explains the licensing a bit more revit.downloads.autodesk.com/download/2021RVT_RTM/Docs/InProd/RevitGenerativeDesign_overview.pdf. The main value that we were trying to add with the AEC Collections "generative player" if you will, is a way for NON-Dynamo scripters to be able to use the tool. If you are creating your own scripts as many students do and we love to encourage, you should be able to use the tool with a student license. Let me know if there is something we're not realizing that is keeping you from this. Thanks again for the great video - we'll look forward to seeing more! Lilli Smith Sr. Product Manager AEC Generative Design Autodesk
I'm on a collection lisence so wasn't able to cross check personally, probably should have. Apologies for that. Many students came to me claiming they couldn't access the tool but I now see they must have meant th Revit tool itself.
Your guide is much clearer than what I'd found so appreciate sharing that. I'll try to edit in a link over the video tomorrow to fix up my criticism, good to see students can at least experiment with the tool in Dynamo itself.
Can students still source model elements in the dynamo workflows as part of the overall script? Im reading it as only preventing revit element selection via the UI itself.
@@AussieBIMGuru Yes students can still source model elements - exactly like you're doing. When you publish, just don't clear the cache. You could also turn off the "is input" for the select in Revit nodes for the Create Study UI because if you run it from Dynamo it won't let you select new geometry.
Awesome, I stand corrected. Thanks for making this available to students in a practically complete capacity! I now know how to help them if they have trouble with licensing too.
I've queued up a video trim, neat little RUclips trick that can help me remove my misinformation :)
Dear Aussie Bim Guru, I had some questions pertaining the GD algorithm creating process and it would be really helpful if you could check your email please! Thank you!
Replied with some ideas, although I don't think it will be a GD workflow.
@@AussieBIMGuru I just sent the mail
@@snigdharay1771 thanks, sorry just got another email which I thought was your query.
@@AussieBIMGuru no worries! :)