people don't like RTD Cybermen? 😭 I always liked them. I really like both versions. people forget that mondasian Cybermen evolved gradually, they replaced their body parts as needed until they were unrecognisable. cybusmen evolution was immediate. this is reflected in their designs and I think both work and have their own innate horror
I think fans out there really missed the point about the RTD Cybermen. These Cybermen come from another dimension which they never came from Mondas and were created by a Davros like scientist.
The Cybusmen are essentially dr.whos take on the borg. LOVE them, and honestly I probably would go through partial conversion if it ment keeping my individuality
@@minitooth There have been Doctor Who/TNG crossover graphic novels featuring both the Cybermen and the Borg. Some people online suspected Gene Roddenberry may had got the idea of The Borg from the Cybermen. I don't think Gene Roddenberry ever watched Doctor Who and I think it's a mere coincidence and Gene Roddenberry never acknowledged it. Your right, the Cybus Cybermen are more like The Borg. The people whom became Cybus Cybermen were assimilated by force and against their will. One thing the Cybermen did have were cube shaped spaceships.
I always found the Cybusmen and the whole "upgrade" process genuinely harrowing. At least most of the other Who enemies just kill you! Also a special shout out to Yvonne Hartman, who was able to overcome her conversion for one of the saddest scenes in Doomsday.
Yeah. Rest of the monsters just kill you. They don't even need reason for that. "Oh you are in my way? Die". Cybusmen? We kill you, because we want to "Help you".
It seems to be a recurring theme that female characters who have been converted manage to overcome their Cyberman programming in some form. Parallel World Jackie Tyler still recognised herself after being converted. Yvonne Hartman overcame her programming and attacked the other Cybermen as we know. Lisa Hallett was only partially converted when the Cybermen were sucked into the void after experimenting with converting full bodies. After Ianto's attempts to fix her, her full Cyber programming came into play, and ended up getting mixed with her human emotions, creating a demented ideology of what love is. Bill Potts overcame her Cyberman programming in the Series 10 finale.
The Cybusmen are horrifying because this time it's humanity that created them, they're branded, packaged and commercialised. The original were scary because it was the idea of what we could become in the future, whereas the Cybusmen show us how and why.
Definitely! I think it was good for them to not do it until Series 10. Any earlier and people would've just laughed at them because of their look. Giving us the two types of NuWho Cybermen meant that new fans would understand the Cybermen enough to accept the Mondasians
Even when Rose states she recognised them from "that head thing in Van Statten's museum" the Doctor states "that was a cyberman from YOUR universe." 🤷♂️
The part where an emotionally-unsuppressed cyberman looks in a mirror while the Doctor says "I'm sorry... I'm so, so sorry..." gives me chills. And I think that moment is extremely relevant because it shows what society will become when it loses/realizes it lost its humanity.
I know the “Bill Potts is the cyberman” reveal was sad, but not really a surprise, but personally, the alternate Jackie is a cyberman reveal was so much more horrifying.
Tbf I think it's subjective. The Bill Potts cyberman was the first time I've been genuinely, deeply horrified by Dr who, and gave me nightmares! At the age of 24 lol
Agreed. Bill becoming a Cyberman was sad considering her condition and the Doctor's situation. Alt!Jackie becoming a Cybusman was horrifying for the reasons explained in the video. Two different reactions intended by the writers.
These are my favorite Cybermen personally. They were what introduced me to the Cybermen, and I found their brutal conversions and cold metal suits terrifying. RTD had a way of making monsters memorable, as both the Cybermen and Daleks were at their height in New-Who under his direction.
I agree! I may be biased by nostalgia, as I grew up with the RTD era, but the Cybermen and Daleks were definitely at their NuWho best when he was in charge
@@HarboWholmes The entirety of NuWho was better with Davies in charge. Everything just worked and nothing seemed like a disjointed mess and the writing quality was really good. Ever since Moffat too over (not even gonna comment on now lol) everything just started becoming messy and the continuity was all over the place and nothing really worked for me. He absolutely ruined the Daleks by making them a joke and not threatening at all. The Davies era was retconned criminally and the show became a mess.
So cybermen in classic series weren't converting people?! Fuck. First one were scariest looking (especialy in new who special) and this logic that "we will kill you thus upgrade you" was so LOGICAL. Now my urge to watch classic series has weakened :/
@@ladrok97 The first Cybermen were going to convert the whole population of Earth. They looked on it as a benevolent act. Sort of "Hello, space cousins, give us your planet and we'll give you freedom from disease and pain, ain't that super?" I grew up only ever having seen photos of the Mondasians and thought they looked a bit ropey compared to their sleek sliver successors. Then I saw a clip of them in action (probably around the 20th anniversary). They were horrific. Surgical splints and dressings holding together something that used to be a person, a cumbersome like support unit, bare hands and hollow sockets that occasionally showed a glimpse of an eyeball deep inside, and a mouth that opened to release a stream of words that sounded like they were spliced together with no attempt to retain a human-like voice.
@@AssassinIsAfk you could say that about any Cyberman since they all feature an amount of Metal. Not to mention I don't know anyone who would be able to not only foresee a Cybusman invasion but also have the resources to get huge magnets to put outside their house. They're kinda like tanks too, so even if a couple go down to some magnets each unit is pretty strong. The rest would be able to clean up and turn the magnets off
@@AssassinIsAfk okay but they would need to get the magnets to an aircraft carrier which would require a helicopter WITHOUT a magnet on it. They don't just store industrial sized magnets on boards
@@AssassinIsAfk If it were that Easy the Cybermen of all generations would never be an issue. They're all controlled by one overmind type Cyberleader. If you CAN hack them then no Cyberman would be a threat.
@@AssassinIsAfk all magnets are metal but not all metals are magnetic. They could be made of a non-metallic metal or I think that flaw would have been a problem in the past... or they'd stick together.
they're doing something similar but more subtle with Lena Luthor in the Supergirl series . I immediately drew a parallel to Cybus and it made me smile . Wealthy genius trying to help humanity by taking away the behaviour that's causing trouble . Sure it's been done a few times but it's good to see there's still fresh ideas and attempts at good writing out there .
The Cybus model of Cybermen are already a modernised incarnation of the classic monster, their armour a far cry from the jump suits of past designs, where there was still a vestige of physical individuality in terms of height or build. However, the Cybus Cybermen achieve a different level of chilling; 1. They're human - they came from a parallel Earth, not a twin planet, nor from a planet like Earth, but from Earth itself. 2. They're built for convenience, not survival - the Mondas Cybermen and the Telosian Cybermen came about from their planets undergoing irreversible changes, and life becoming compromised, and thus augmented to survive, but the Cybus Cyberman was made to incorporate technology more into the lives of a planet that was still thriving, not one on the brink, and is seen as less of a matter of life and death, but a conscious choice, even if the people who are converted had no say. 3. They call themselves an upgrade - previous Cybermen, whilst they consider themselves superior to organic life, do not necessarily call themselves, or refer to process they underwent an "upgrade". It implies that mankind, even at it's peak and considering all their greatest accomplishment, are redundant, obsolete, and fit only for disposal. 4. They're nearly entirely synthetic - past Cybermen had adaptive augmentation, as in gradual conversion of flesh to cybernetic parts, and thus each cyberman had individuality depending on how far the process has gone, but the Cybus Cybermen are just brains transplanted into the suit, virtually nothing remains of the original host that can be distinguished. 5. They're irreversible - past Cybermen had some flesh remaining, something you could conceivably clone or replicate to rebuild a flesh body, but there is nothing left of after a Cybus conversion. 6. They consider themselves a mercy - perhaps one of the most chilling parts of the Cybus Cybermen is that they consider what they're doing to human kind isn't out of conquest, but an act of kindness. To them, organic life is suffering and deserves to be free, they see individuality as a curse, because they see that diversity has brought division and discrimination, and thus upgrade because they want to help those who are not like them. Even their creator, Lumic, did this as a way of offering those like him, disabled, frail, or ill, a new lease of life.
Yeah. This is why I'm sad that Mondas Cybermen weren't trying to upgrade. Their design (at least in new who episode) is so scarry - so close to human body, but without convertion aspect is just enemy
The mondasian cybermen also thought of themselfs as the "heroes" of the story, offering the conversion as a solution to human problems. They gave the choice to join them or simply to die as earth would be drained. They never felt like jumpsuits, but a surgical process gone extremely wrong and the technology taking over the body. For them it there was no reason to not be a cybermen as they had no "weaknesses", no emotions. The Doctor and Polly actually tried to argue with them about the lack of feelings and the disregard for human life they had, receiving some solid counterarguments of how people die everyday and give no shits about that, so why should they care? They only killed when necessary (not counting the guys in the surface, which might have just been converted for all we know.) As show when the Cybermen keeping ben hostage only, attacking when ben tricks menaces him. Besides, we've never seen any cybermen being "cured" in ClassicWho. There was no saving those who were converted, like that guy half converted in Attack. Only episode i saw where that happened was Closing time and the cyberbill trilogy (water lady probably could have saved bill, mondasian design or not), two NewWho episodes. What i like about the classic, 3W and the warriors cybers is the fear of whats inside and how it might feel to have cold metal and cables inside of me, or having organs, bones or skin missing, not being able to feel them. Something that the cybus could never do, as i would just be a brain in a mecha suit. The design is great tho. Cybus might be scary, but mondasian/warriors/3W cybers are horrifying. Bill, danny and original Yvonne (spare parts) are tragic as we have created some sort of feeling with them, and knowing what they think and feel, or the fact that thry prefer to not feel or not exist at all is pure horror, something that i couldn't feel for AltJackie as she was only present for one episode and was very damn rude with everyone, only having an impact cuz of Pete's and rose's desperate reaction, which was also something that danny, bill Yvonne had (Clara, Nardole and The Doctor and Yvonne's family). Classic and post-Cybus all had moment that made me prefer death over conversion, something that i couldn't feel that much with RTDs stories (he made the cybermen a joke in army of ghosts and doomday and next doctor, which needs no explaining now, do we?). Age of steel and rise are great, but Tenth planet part 2, Dark water, Death in heaven, World enough and time and Doctor falls are masterpieces in cyber-horror.
Dont get me wrong, i hate ascension of the cybermens and the timeless children as they both are the literal incarnation of ALL of the problems with cybermen
@@Pelgaphilthecapybara You know? The whole, cables and metal hanging out of your body is not that terrifying to me. I experienced it after all. I had surgery that needed some supportive devices to heal, so I had plastic hoses and metal hanging out of my back. And it really was not as awful as many people would belief. A bit uncomfortable at times, if I twisted a bit far I could feel them sliding under my skin a bit, but that was neither painful nor horrific. More of an, sat to long in one position and the tendons pop, kind of feel. If the suff had not been as encumbering (had two pull a stand that the hoses lead to after me) I would have had no problem going on about my life as if it was not even there. No, what I find terrifying is the influence of the mind. That the things that make you you are turned off and leave you a unemotional automaton.
@@theexchipmunk oof man. I'm sorry. It's more of an personal opinion really, bcuz being honest, I probably wouldn't feel any of the two options, as my emotions and feelings would be inhibited. I find the mondasian Cybermen horrific because it retains some human attributes but still covering everything with that strange suit. We don't really KNOW what happened to them inside, and I think it's for the best. The mangled body would be nightmare fuel. But I get where u come from and respect that.
I found the "Cybusmen" terrifying when they first came out. I recently rewatched Rise and Age and honestly, they still hold up. Plus given how drastically our technology has advanced, those episodes are even more relevent today
me watching that episode thinking how the hell did everyone let themselves be completely enslaved by earpods, then proceeding to wear my airpods for 6 hours a day
The Moffat era look like what they are, a man in a suit doing an unconvincing robotic walk, a suit that looks like a rip off of iron man to show 'how cool we are kids'. The Davis era look strong, imposing and lifeless machines, their boots crashing down in unison as they march, completely uniform and no personality to tell them apart.
What I did like in the Season 10 finale was the doctor talking about how, in every civilisation, the Cybermen could appear because life existed. That every species had the potential to create their own versions. Not Drone heads, Chibnall. They're the most likely to go through change and adaptation
Chibnall wanted 'cyberwomen' and 'female daleks' that guy is a joke. The cybermen have no gender or identity and neither do daleks'. There is no agenda there. He's a moron and has to go.
@@GADG3Tx87 Wasn't Cyberwoman named after Ianto's girlfriend who had been partially converted? I mean, the design is what comic fans would call pure cheesecake and the Gwen starting to have an affair with Owen subplot was trashy but it was an okay episode.
The drone head things had potential. They could've became parasitic conversion machines to create short lasting, disposable Cybermen meant only for combat.
I've always rather liked the Cybusmen. The idea that one wealthy madman could enforce his will on people through technology always struck me as scarily believable. I would have loved to see Lumic explored in more detail as a character. Plus I actually liked the design. The old one was kind of cool, but they never looked like anything more than blokes in flight suits.
Seemingly now more a possibility with the advancements in wearable tech and even Elon Musk's Neuralink, which is now heading to the beginning of human trials.
I’ve never actually seen the Doctor Who series, but I have seen some clips, and so far my favorite villains are the Daleks, the Weeping Angels, and most of all...the Cybermen. Quite specifically the Cybus versions. They’re design is so cool, and makes them just as menacing. I actually had no idea these were alternate universe versions of the Cybermen. But they’re still awesome. But I’d like to get this one subject out of the way, and address my main problem. The reason why I haven’t been able to watch Doctor Who, any of them, is because...well, I don’t really know where to start.
Those are three of the most iconic villains, so good choice! I've always liked the Cybusmen, they look great. It's always hard to get started with Doctor Who. I was lucky to be in the right place and the right time for the start of the revived era, so I grew up with it. Instinct tells me that you may as well start with Rose (first episode of the revived era) but that's far from the best episode to start with. I have no idea where I'd start if I was new to it now. I think it depends what you're looking for.
Well I’m kinda looking for a somewhat fun, interesting and humorous run. So far, the part that matches that requirement is the season with the 10th Doctor. I also heard that the one with the 6th Doctor is good.
I think the safer bet would be the 10th Doctor era, since the 6th Doctor's episodes are quite polarising among fans. There are three 10th Doctor series and a set of specials after that, but you might need to just start from the beginning to understand certain things. 'Christmas Invasion' is the first 10th Doctor episode (it was a Christmas special.) It's quite divisive but I feel like it's a good little story. I recommend you start from there, so that you get a more complete 10th Doctor experience. You might be confused with a couple of things, but you should be fine. Series 2 (the first full 10th Doctor series) can be hit or miss but if you can power through that, Series 3, 4 and the 2009 Specials are some of the best the show has ever put out so bear with it!!
@@HarboWholmes I love cybus men as well Davies era was before me but I watched Tennant's era more than any and the cybermen were awesome they terrified me with their conversation and I think chibnils new cybermen will be awesome to see
I seem to remember the Doctor hinting at one point that the cyberman route is one of the possible evolutionary routes that any civilization might take. In some degree, the Daleks are basically Kaledian Cybermen but their acceleration of evolution got rid of their humanoid shape. Personally, I think 'Ghost in the Shell' type enhancement with retained humanity is more likely. Also, does anyone else think that the Cybermen did the Borg better and more efficiently than Star Trek and that Star Trek probably owes royalties to the BBC.
Why is this part of defending the despised? The Cybus Cybermen aren’t at all controversial, frankly they seem to be one of the most well loved eras of the cybermen. Am I missing something? Do people hate them? Why?
@El Limon yeah I'm confused as well because I've heard nothing but ridicule about the previous versions of Cybermen from all my friends who were bigger Dr Who fans than me but found the Cybus Cybermen as a legitimately terrifying idea, and thus loved them.
i've never really "hated" the cybus cybermen, it's just that i like the other iterations better. (excluding nightmare in silver and the iron cybermen).
Cause they feel like robots when there not I fail to connect with them emotionally cause the cybus cybermen look like robots but I understand that the point of them is to upgrade so I ain't to bothered
Wait, since when was “Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel” poorly received? Even people I’ve heard who criticized the “Cybusmen” said that they work well in this story.
The concept of cyber men has trully terrified me for a long time. Whenever they were on tv when I was younger I would hide behind the coach. The idea that they are close to unstoppable and that they steal the minds of people and turn them into cyber men and remove all emotions is truly horrifying.
I certainly agree with Neil Gaiman about the Cybermen always changing and evolving as they spread to more worlds and assimilate more technologies. Besides being a metaphor about our very real fixation on upgrades, it's a neat way to explain the variations we've seen across the Cybermen's history, and helps set them apart from the Daleks, who think they're already perfect as they are.
i remember watching rise of the cybermen and age of steel as a kid, the scene where they show the upgrading really distressed me. cybermen are a little bit lame but the stiff robotic movements on these cybermen makes them so much more believable, the matt smith ones i always got the feeling someone was in a suit doing "the robot" never felt as real.
I really like the idea that the mondashian and cybus men are actually linked, and I'd love to see this explored. The idea that the cybermen are a kind of memetic threat, arising in many different worlds, and many different cultures, as a kind of convergent idea, almost always taking over their originating planet, and spreading into the broader universe.
I personally prefer the 2011 versions of the 2006 Cybermen, I know they look pretty similar apart from the fact that the 2011 Cybermen have no cybus logo and are Mondasian. The 2011 Cybermen for some reason feel more threatening, it’s probably because they were holding big guns in A Good Man Goes to War.
And they can easily adapt to any situation after being exposed to it once. Given time that would potentially make them invulnerable to attack. One shot from a Dalek and a quick 'upgrade patch' later and they better start re-evaluating their 'superior race' ideology.
The Cybusmen are absolutely horrifying. The scene of people being led like cattle into a chamber where a terrifying knife and buzzsaw apparatus lobotomizes them and spits out an emotionless metal machine is scary on a level that's difficult to express.
The old cybermen look silly, I think these ones are scary, even more than the daleks. I don't like the iron man-looking ones though, they look too docile, soft, and unthreatening, mostly because of the face.
I actually really liked the introduction of the concept that Cybermen continually arise independently. That they are a conceptual inevitability that is so likely, that somehow even their physical form shares unsettling similarities. And I agree that they're better villains, potentially, than the Daleks. Both the Cybermen and the Daleks are takes on authoritarianism or fascism. The Daleks however, are the Nazi as a special monster, that exists separately from all other people and comes to attack them from the outside. The Cybermen however - particularly this concept of the Cybermen as a kind of memetic "virus - arise from within a society. The Cybermen as fascists are a reminder that many people within society are in fact authoritarians, do in fact want fascism; want to brutalize and control their fellow citizens. The Cybermen are unsettling because of this. The fact that they also represent the erasure of physical differences between people is another reminder of the mentality of the ethnostate fascist, the racist, the person who is terrified of variety and human texture.
In all Doctor Who monsters, in order to make them truly compelling, they need to represent something we know. The Daleks are space Fascists, the Cybermen are space Communists, the Sontarans are space Imperialists, etc. Monsters who don't represent something we know fail to invoke an emotional repose.
Honestly, I find the Cybusmen less of an overall threat, but at the same time more chilling. They're less of a threat, as their technology is confined to what is available from (parallell) Earth, whereas the Mondasian Cybermen not only achieved space travel, but continued to upgrade and advance. Hell, by Nightmare in Silver, they're straight up overpowered, potentially even capable of surpassing the Daleks in a fight. But that is what makes them less unnerving to me. The Cybusmen are just that: Man made and designed to be believable to an extent. They're a sci-fi monster that, while still fanciful, remain more grounded in realism than their Mondasian counterparts. It's more believable that something like them could possibly exist in the future, which makes them more unnerving to me.
I grew up in the new who era as a kid so to me the cybusmen are iconic and are my fave design due to nostagia. i have fond memories of chasing my friends around the playground screaming delete and shoving them into the ground by their shoulders when catching them. good times
The Mondasian Cybermen were built by a civilization that was in decline. So of course they're more ramshackled and have more body horror going on with their design features. They were more focused on being able to fully function over anything else. Which they then overcame with future models such as the Nightmare in Silver Cybermen - who technologically were at their peak design and function-wise compared to the previous incarnations we met in the show's history. The Cybermen of Pete's World however were made by a multi-national company whose leader was driven by his desire for physical perfection and to cheat death. John Lumic would probably point and laugh at the original Mondasian Cybermen, or be outraged with them, given how messy and rushed they look compared to his industrial-grade full metal Cybermen that were designed by him.
The two different cubermen can work narratively because it shows how the upgrading of a species is not a one off event but something that can naturally happen to all species
I don't understand what people's problem with "too robotic looking". They used to be Human, now NOTHING about them would let you guess that. That's the thing.
How can you dislike the Cybusmen? They're my favourite ones. You cannot deny how lost they made the Doctor feel alongside Davies Daleks in Doomsday. It took so much to take them down. Nowadays, the Doctor seemingly brushes the Daleks and Cybers off with a click of their fingers
RTD cybermen are my favorite. Not only were the episodes with them awesome (with Tennant and Billie especially) they were frightening because of how cold and emotionless they were.
I always liked the Cyberman. They have a certain realism to them. As in, we currently have the science to really understand that they ARE a real possibility. That there could be a real cyberman some time in the future. And that really makes the even scarier. By the way, no one is ever going to convince me that the writers of The Next Generation did not have them in mind when writing the Borg.
I wish they'd actually made an episode about the Mondas and Cybusmen Cybermen amalgamating their technology. Instead of the continuity of the Cybermen being ignored much like the Dalek continuity over the last few years. It's one of many things that make the show now seem very lazy with it's writing.
I've also thought about Cybermen as a representation of communism, in the same way the Daleks represent fascism, with their uniformity and misplaced "compassion" in their mission to convert everybody to their line of thinking. "We will remove class and colour and creed". -- The Age of Steel
The only problem with the Cybusmen is that the body horror aspect of the original Cybermen isn't as overtly present which makes them less scary. Also the argument for why the Cybermen have generally been featured less despite being more interesting than the Daleks is because of the body horror aspect which makes them less "child friendly" by the standards of some out of touch executives.
Their modern factory-made appearance defiantly left their mark. Not much of a fan of them being used for the main universe' Cybermen - when they're advanced enough to go into space. But their designs as featured in Season 2 defiantly fit their origins in Pete's World.
The cybermen were always one of the villains that are always interesting villains. Though they could try one time doing a story with them where they do have individual personalities but also still hold their wish to upgrade the people as a more cunning and diverse foe for the doctor.
Sword & Dove Gaming Productions They kinda explored that in Season 12 with Jodie’s Doctor but it was done poorly :/ The Cyberman general had such potential being only half-converted but they ended up just making him pretty irrelevant instead by putting the ‘timeless children’ in the spotlight... Would’ve probably been better if the Cyberman was the focus of the show and underwent some sort of character development but nope.
tbh I don't find the cybermen frightening at all, the only negative aspects of being a cyberman are the lack of individuality and emotions, plus the painful upgrading process. Apart from that they are just transhumans (people with technologically upgraded bodies) with a LOT of benefits over being normal humans, ie, I don't know, IMMORTALITY? And transhumanism is increasingly becoming accepted and will become commonplace in the near future, with the only detractors being people who are deathly afraid of advancing technology.
As someone who's experienced almost every type of Cyberman on screen in 1 way or another and got my start with the Cybusmen, I've got a soft spot for Lumic's stompy bois. They still embody the core cyberman ethos of "we must survive", especially in their later stories. They're certainly WAY better than what the Moffat Cybermen became in their later stories - like, the whole "Dark Water" thing was a travesty IMO, with the Cybermen just being generic henchmen for Missy that should've been replaced by generic robot zombies rather than ruining an iconic monster.
Ideally, tho you'd want the Cyberman to have human features instead of being like robots to remind you they are part human, personally I feel it doesn't matter if the writing is good. Due to this one of my favourite Cybermen moment is with the Cybus Cybermen in "Age Of Steel", when Mrs Moore takes out a Cybermen, only for her to break the emotional inhibiter, and the Cybermen is revealed to be a woman who was about to get married! That one conversation is more impactful and says more about the Cybermen to me than any design ever could.
The whole point though is to remove what makes a human individual and that means removing emotion and humanity from that person to become uniform and it shows well with the Cybusmen the cybermen from the 80s were way too human even showing emotional inflection in their speech.
What I found scariest about them was the complete lack of guns. In the first 2 eps they were just a Marching Unstoppable force like at the part and when they killed ricky no shooting just a constant force. Then they added wristblasters in the army of ghosts which put me off.
I freaking loved the Cybus Cybermen when they appeared in the series. I had vague knowledge of the older series, but they were my introduction to the concept, and it absolutely worked.
Season 2 Cybermen were my personal favorite. I struggled with the less mechanical features of early Mondasian Cybermen. I feel that the best horror spawned by the Cybermen is their transformation from warm, living people to cold, emotionless monsters.
Cybusmen scared me to death as a kid. The Cybermen from the series 10 finale scare me still. Being painfully "upgraded" into a cold robotic shell that removes your freewill until something is fortunate enough to kill you is more terrifying than what other Who monsters can do to you. I think they were great.
I never minded the RTD Cybermen, but of course they are different they're from a different universe. My main problem with Cyberman is that I feel I have already seen the cybermen perfected, I know they aren't meant to be but the Borg from Star Trek basically perfected practically all aspects of cybermen
I still find the first cybermen the scariest because you could still see the human hands. Same to the fifth doctor cybermen, you could see the bottom jaw.
I remember watching this on Disney XD in about 2015. Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel were my favorite of the Doctor Who episodes they aired that I was able to watch.
I see the Moffat era Cybermen, I think they’re a continuation from the 80s Telosian Cybermen (but they are awful compared to the wonderful Telos Cybermen I grew-up with)
I’ve never heard criticism of cybusmen. To a lot of people, like me, it was the first introduction to the cybermen. As a kid i was quite scared of them, imagining if I saw them in real life, they are definitely threatening.
Personally I'd prefer to be a Cybus cyberman than a Mondas because it's done over a shorter period of time whereas Mondas cybermen are converted over a much longer time and they can just silence your screams of pain
As I understand it, the early Cybermen were as much a critique on medical technology as on mechanization. Ideas of replacing limbs and cosmetic surgery were new and intimidating at the time. I was also rather fond of the "CybusMen", and I don't quite get the hate. They certainly don't seem any sillier than the ones in, say, Silver Nemesis. I find their design to be very serviceable. But I also think that the original Mondasian versions were the most uniquely terrifying, with their off-key voices and nearly human faces, hinting at something horrible beneath a thin surgical mask. I'm happy that they were revisited so effectively!
The fact that they remove the brain and put it in a suit always made them darker for me. They don’t show the surgery (except a little in torchwood) but the fact it’s a detached brain in the suit made them darker. In moffat’s run they seemed to change this to the cyber helmet going over the head and the cyber suit going over the body. Almost like a suit, it seemed to diminish their impact. Under RTD it was clear Jackie Tyler and the other cybermen couldn’t be saved and all they could do was end their suffering. Under Moffat it was more reversible, even with just emotional overload like when Craig heard Alfie cry and it made him reverse the conversion. I think nightmare in silver helped add more to the cybermen’s intimidation. Because we saw how extreme people were in preventing cybermen from spreading, even destroying a galaxy. That helped make it clear how dangerous they were again.
I love the cybus cybermen. Truly the defining look of the cybermen for me. Their entrance in rise of the cybermen’s dinner party scene is still just so good.
Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel is one of my favorite episodes of the revived series specifically for the themes and imagery depicted in the episodes as a whole. I'd dare say it's become even more indicative of our society as time went on. -The advancement of technology to the point where it pretty much controls our lives: Fess up; how many of us can go half a day without looking at our phones now, with social media being pretty much force fed to us, only less overtly than in the episode itself. -The Cybermen's now iconic unison march with the hydraulic stomping is an eerie reflection on the single-minded hive consciousness they have, which can also reflect on how our technology nowadays pretty much unifies us into a singular mode of thinking: How many of us have leapt on some social media induced bandwagon? -Regarding John Lumic; the man who created the alternate Cybermen: You think some despot on our Earth wouldn't be ecstatic if they had the ability to take the people they see more as an inconvenience, rather than those they're meant to look out for the wellbeing of, and turn them into uniform, emotionless machines without individual thought or personalities?
Honestly I find the Cybus Cybermen a lot better. Mondasian Cybermen to me look a little too plane and unfinished. I know a lot of people would disagree with me but I find these probably one of the best
That was the point. It was explained in the Spare Parts story. The Mondasian Cybermen were a very rushed design. The whole population of the planet was not originally going to be converted, but with everything falling apart around them they had little choice. The problem was that they barely had any materials left to use, so the first batch of Cybermen were made using scrap and bodyparts from graveyards.
The description of cyber-conversion in one of the classic Who books was terrifying... they could have gone really grim. Wish I could remember which one it was - there was a baby that got converted but because the process was designed for adults it became this insane metal thing smashing through the facility... still get flashbacks to nightmares from that.
The Cybusmen are actually my favorite Cybermen. I remember watching these two episodes with my dad as a kid, and I remember being terrified of them. These Cybermen had the same effect on me as the daleks had on kids when they first came out. The idea that even I could be turned into a Cybermen terrified me.
Literally the only reason I can imagine that someone would prefer the classic Who Cybermen is because of nostalgia. They look like rejected power rangers villain designs.
when Doctor who (new) version was airing, i went onto the BBC website to play some games they had. a Dalek game inspired by... well, the episode Dalek. They also had a card game similar to war, but with the classic who monsters. Cybermen were present as multiple cards to reflect their different versions. I knew about them from some pictures. As such, i knew they were likely going to come up. With thy Cybusmen, i was blown away at the time of how cool they were.
They're just too robotic for me. There's less focus on the creepy self-surgery of the originals and I don't think Russell ever fully understood what having your emotions removed meant. And why do they kill people? All Doctor Who monsters kill people! What makes the concept of the Cybermen more interesting is that they refuse to kill, instead planning to do something worse. It's terrifying.
I seem to have managed to miss all Classic Cybermen, though I must have known of them because I instantly recognised the head in "Dalek". So this episode was my intro to the species. Loved the design. When, later, I saw clips of the Classic models, and heard them, I couldn't help but laugh; I suspect that if I'd seen them first I still wouldn't have been that impressed. I'm all for advances in tech, but .... I don't own a smartphone, I don't use satnav [though I could do with one, if only to tell me where I am when I get lost, rather than for actual navigation]. The prob is that when people let machines do their thinking for them, they often forget how to do it for themselves.
Wait hold up. People actually complained about the revived Cybermen. I have never heard anybody complain about the Cybermen introduced in Rise or the Cybermen and Age of Steel. Everyone I know including me really loved the these Cybermen
The first Doctor Who episodes I ever watched were the Cybusmen origin two-parters and they absolutely terrified me. I think they were the most realistic idea of how we might end up with a Cyberman future, and I still check behind doors at night to make sure there isn't a steel monster on the other side waiting for me.
This design has always been my favourite and I also really like the new design with Jodies Doctor it perfectly combined new who Cybermen and the classic series cybermen which the iron man cybermen tried to do. Also my geek heart screamed when the cybus style cybermen were brought back for Jodie
I completely agree. I didn't realise that some people didn't like this design, probably older people who preferred the classic designs. They are my absolute favourite, and as with all my other Doctor Who favourites, I don't know which I put in second.
Literally never heard of people complain about cybus cybermen
Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've always seen criticism of the stompy bois
Go to videos about the classic mondasian cybermen. You will see them there
Harbo Wholmes yea but you made it sound like people hated it like the Disney Star Wars trilogy😂. I personally like both versions.
@@Fulllife3.2 shall do then
Me neither, cybusmen were my introduction to the cybermen altogether
people don't like RTD Cybermen? 😭 I always liked them. I really like both versions. people forget that mondasian Cybermen evolved gradually, they replaced their body parts as needed until they were unrecognisable. cybusmen evolution was immediate. this is reflected in their designs and I think both work and have their own innate horror
I grew up with the Cybusmen, I adore them.
I think fans out there really missed the point about the RTD Cybermen. These Cybermen come from another dimension which they never came from Mondas and were created by a Davros like scientist.
The Cybusmen are essentially dr.whos take on the borg. LOVE them, and honestly I probably would go through partial conversion if it ment keeping my individuality
@@minitooth There have been Doctor Who/TNG crossover graphic novels featuring both the Cybermen and the Borg. Some people online suspected Gene Roddenberry may had got the idea of The Borg from the Cybermen. I don't think Gene Roddenberry ever watched Doctor Who and I think it's a mere coincidence and Gene Roddenberry never acknowledged it. Your right, the Cybus Cybermen are more like The Borg. The people whom became Cybus Cybermen were assimilated by force and against their will. One thing the Cybermen did have were cube shaped spaceships.
@@minitooth Cybermen were 1960s, Borg were 1990s.
I always found the Cybusmen and the whole "upgrade" process genuinely harrowing. At least most of the other Who enemies just kill you!
Also a special shout out to Yvonne Hartman, who was able to overcome her conversion for one of the saddest scenes in Doomsday.
Yeah. Rest of the monsters just kill you. They don't even need reason for that. "Oh you are in my way? Die". Cybusmen? We kill you, because we want to "Help you".
I did like how Cybus originally created them just so he could live on, but the president wouldnt let him.
I did my duty for queen and country
I did my duty for queen and country
I did my duty for queen and country
@@justdenks I loved that scene
It seems to be a recurring theme that female characters who have been converted manage to overcome their Cyberman programming in some form.
Parallel World Jackie Tyler still recognised herself after being converted.
Yvonne Hartman overcame her programming and attacked the other Cybermen as we know.
Lisa Hallett was only partially converted when the Cybermen were sucked into the void after experimenting with converting full bodies. After Ianto's attempts to fix her, her full Cyber programming came into play, and ended up getting mixed with her human emotions, creating a demented ideology of what love is.
Bill Potts overcame her Cyberman programming in the Series 10 finale.
The Cybusmen are horrifying because this time it's humanity that created them, they're branded, packaged and commercialised. The original were scary because it was the idea of what we could become in the future, whereas the Cybusmen show us how and why.
More like tech companies
It's nice that we eventually got Mondasian cybermen.
Definitely! I think it was good for them to not do it until Series 10. Any earlier and people would've just laughed at them because of their look. Giving us the two types of NuWho Cybermen meant that new fans would understand the Cybermen enough to accept the Mondasians
Harbo Wholmes to be fair the Legions and Cyberiad May have been Mondasian related/adjacent
The Mondassian voice was more scary with it's lilting tone.
@@HarboWholmes of course 😎
@@colinp2238 yes it was do u think it was better 🐽
Times the Cybermen felt right:
* Their first appearance
* Most of the times they faced 2
* The Cybusmen
* Season 10 finale
The less we talk about "Revenge of" and "Attack of", the better.
@@TheSmart-CasualGamer and completely ignore the cyberwoman
The Smart-Casual Gamer. Hey Attack isn’t Revenge bad. I actually thought it was pretty good
PC Andy Infinite same
I like how silly the "EXCELLENT!" Cybermen from the 70s/80s were.
Even when Rose states she recognised them from "that head thing in Van Statten's museum" the Doctor states "that was a cyberman from YOUR universe." 🤷♂️
The part where an emotionally-unsuppressed cyberman looks in a mirror while the Doctor says "I'm sorry... I'm so, so sorry..." gives me chills. And I think that moment is extremely relevant because it shows what society will become when it loses/realizes it lost its humanity.
I just now realized that both Barty Crouches are in the story. I probably noticed it in the past too but forgot.
I love that fact.
He's also Trigger from Only Fools and Horses. Classic comedy actor.
@@GADG3Tx87 Did he ever tell you about the medal he got for maintaining his sweep brush?
haha i remember thinking that too... I watched Harry Potter few days before the episode came out and ended up thinking it...
Also in both cases, David Tennant’s character killed Roger Lloyd-Pack’s.
RIP Roger Lloyd-Pack.
I know the “Bill Potts is the cyberman” reveal was sad, but not really a surprise, but personally, the alternate Jackie is a cyberman reveal was so much more horrifying.
Tbf I think it's subjective. The Bill Potts cyberman was the first time I've been genuinely, deeply horrified by Dr who, and gave me nightmares! At the age of 24 lol
Agreed. Bill becoming a Cyberman was sad considering her condition and the Doctor's situation. Alt!Jackie becoming a Cybusman was horrifying for the reasons explained in the video. Two different reactions intended by the writers.
Doctor "a mondasian cyberman! You're brand new, fresh out of the factory, you're not ready for a fight yet!"
Nardole "he does look kinda ready..." 😂
Actually, as a coincidence, I was 22 when alt Jackie became a cyberman, so maybe it was an age thing. I’m too old for surprises now lol
someone had told me about Bill Potts becoming a cyberman and it was still really disturbing
These are my favorite Cybermen personally. They were what introduced me to the Cybermen, and I found their brutal conversions and cold metal suits terrifying. RTD had a way of making monsters memorable, as both the Cybermen and Daleks were at their height in New-Who under his direction.
I agree! I may be biased by nostalgia, as I grew up with the RTD era, but the Cybermen and Daleks were definitely at their NuWho best when he was in charge
Same. It’s hard to beat your first Cyberman.
@@HarboWholmes The entirety of NuWho was better with Davies in charge. Everything just worked and nothing seemed like a disjointed mess and the writing quality was really good. Ever since Moffat too over (not even gonna comment on now lol) everything just started becoming messy and the continuity was all over the place and nothing really worked for me. He absolutely ruined the Daleks by making them a joke and not threatening at all. The Davies era was retconned criminally and the show became a mess.
So cybermen in classic series weren't converting people?! Fuck. First one were scariest looking (especialy in new who special) and this logic that "we will kill you thus upgrade you" was so LOGICAL. Now my urge to watch classic series has weakened :/
@@ladrok97 The first Cybermen were going to convert the whole population of Earth. They looked on it as a benevolent act. Sort of "Hello, space cousins, give us your planet and we'll give you freedom from disease and pain, ain't that super?"
I grew up only ever having seen photos of the Mondasians and thought they looked a bit ropey compared to their sleek sliver successors. Then I saw a clip of them in action (probably around the 20th anniversary). They were horrific. Surgical splints and dressings holding together something that used to be a person, a cumbersome like support unit, bare hands and hollow sockets that occasionally showed a glimpse of an eyeball deep inside, and a mouth that opened to release a stream of words that sounded like they were spliced together with no attempt to retain a human-like voice.
The Cybusmen were the coolest design, I never heard of anyone disliking them
@@AssassinIsAfk you could say that about any Cyberman since they all feature an amount of Metal. Not to mention I don't know anyone who would be able to not only foresee a Cybusman invasion but also have the resources to get huge magnets to put outside their house.
They're kinda like tanks too, so even if a couple go down to some magnets each unit is pretty strong. The rest would be able to clean up and turn the magnets off
@@AssassinIsAfk okay but they would need to get the magnets to an aircraft carrier which would require a helicopter WITHOUT a magnet on it. They don't just store industrial sized magnets on boards
@@AssassinIsAfk If it were that Easy the Cybermen of all generations would never be an issue. They're all controlled by one overmind type Cyberleader. If you CAN hack them then no Cyberman would be a threat.
@@AssassinIsAfk all magnets are metal but not all metals are magnetic. They could be made of a non-metallic metal or I think that flaw would have been a problem in the past... or they'd stick together.
@@AssassinIsAfk you mean in the parallel world? They used the shutdown code they didn't hack the cybermen directly
The Cybusmen were the scariest of all. I loved their story. One wealthy dictator controlling humans. Maybe, not so farfetched.
they're doing something similar but more subtle with Lena Luthor in the Supergirl series . I immediately drew a parallel to Cybus and it made me smile . Wealthy genius trying to help humanity by taking away the behaviour that's causing trouble . Sure it's been done a few times but it's good to see there's still fresh ideas and attempts at good writing out there .
I agree
Bethsheeba the Mondasian Cybermen were the closer to humanity than the Modern Cybermen.
I thought that they were a Borg rip off.
@@colinp2238 A rip off that was created 20 years before the borg showed up in star trek . Well , it IS a show about time travel .
The Cybus model of Cybermen are already a modernised incarnation of the classic monster, their armour a far cry from the jump suits of past designs, where there was still a vestige of physical individuality in terms of height or build. However, the Cybus Cybermen achieve a different level of chilling;
1. They're human - they came from a parallel Earth, not a twin planet, nor from a planet like Earth, but from Earth itself.
2. They're built for convenience, not survival - the Mondas Cybermen and the Telosian Cybermen came about from their planets undergoing irreversible changes, and life becoming compromised, and thus augmented to survive, but the Cybus Cyberman was made to incorporate technology more into the lives of a planet that was still thriving, not one on the brink, and is seen as less of a matter of life and death, but a conscious choice, even if the people who are converted had no say.
3. They call themselves an upgrade - previous Cybermen, whilst they consider themselves superior to organic life, do not necessarily call themselves, or refer to process they underwent an "upgrade". It implies that mankind, even at it's peak and considering all their greatest accomplishment, are redundant, obsolete, and fit only for disposal.
4. They're nearly entirely synthetic - past Cybermen had adaptive augmentation, as in gradual conversion of flesh to cybernetic parts, and thus each cyberman had individuality depending on how far the process has gone, but the Cybus Cybermen are just brains transplanted into the suit, virtually nothing remains of the original host that can be distinguished.
5. They're irreversible - past Cybermen had some flesh remaining, something you could conceivably clone or replicate to rebuild a flesh body, but there is nothing left of after a Cybus conversion.
6. They consider themselves a mercy - perhaps one of the most chilling parts of the Cybus Cybermen is that they consider what they're doing to human kind isn't out of conquest, but an act of kindness. To them, organic life is suffering and deserves to be free, they see individuality as a curse, because they see that diversity has brought division and discrimination, and thus upgrade because they want to help those who are not like them. Even their creator, Lumic, did this as a way of offering those like him, disabled, frail, or ill, a new lease of life.
Yeah. This is why I'm sad that Mondas Cybermen weren't trying to upgrade. Their design (at least in new who episode) is so scarry - so close to human body, but without convertion aspect is just enemy
The mondasian cybermen also thought of themselfs as the "heroes" of the story, offering the conversion as a solution to human problems. They gave the choice to join them or simply to die as earth would be drained. They never felt like jumpsuits, but a surgical process gone extremely wrong and the technology taking over the body. For them it there was no reason to not be a cybermen as they had no "weaknesses", no emotions. The Doctor and Polly actually tried to argue with them about the lack of feelings and the disregard for human life they had, receiving some solid counterarguments of how people die everyday and give no shits about that, so why should they care? They only killed when necessary (not counting the guys in the surface, which might have just been converted for all we know.) As show when the Cybermen keeping ben hostage only, attacking when ben tricks menaces him. Besides, we've never seen any cybermen being "cured" in ClassicWho. There was no saving those who were converted, like that guy half converted in Attack. Only episode i saw where that happened was Closing time and the cyberbill trilogy (water lady probably could have saved bill, mondasian design or not), two NewWho episodes. What i like about the classic, 3W and the warriors cybers is the fear of whats inside and how it might feel to have cold metal and cables inside of me, or having organs, bones or skin missing, not being able to feel them. Something that the cybus could never do, as i would just be a brain in a mecha suit. The design is great tho. Cybus might be scary, but mondasian/warriors/3W cybers are horrifying. Bill, danny and original Yvonne (spare parts) are tragic as we have created some sort of feeling with them, and knowing what they think and feel, or the fact that thry prefer to not feel or not exist at all is pure horror, something that i couldn't feel for AltJackie as she was only present for one episode and was very damn rude with everyone, only having an impact cuz of Pete's and rose's desperate reaction, which was also something that danny, bill Yvonne had (Clara, Nardole and The Doctor and Yvonne's family). Classic and post-Cybus all had moment that made me prefer death over conversion, something that i couldn't feel that much with RTDs stories (he made the cybermen a joke in army of ghosts and doomday and next doctor, which needs no explaining now, do we?). Age of steel and rise are great, but Tenth planet part 2, Dark water, Death in heaven, World enough and time and Doctor falls are masterpieces in cyber-horror.
Dont get me wrong, i hate ascension of the cybermens and the timeless children as they both are the literal incarnation of ALL of the problems with cybermen
@@Pelgaphilthecapybara You know? The whole, cables and metal hanging out of your body is not that terrifying to me. I experienced it after all. I had surgery that needed some supportive devices to heal, so I had plastic hoses and metal hanging out of my back. And it really was not as awful as many people would belief. A bit uncomfortable at times, if I twisted a bit far I could feel them sliding under my skin a bit, but that was neither painful nor horrific. More of an, sat to long in one position and the tendons pop, kind of feel. If the suff had not been as encumbering (had two pull a stand that the hoses lead to after me) I would have had no problem going on about my life as if it was not even there.
No, what I find terrifying is the influence of the mind. That the things that make you you are turned off and leave you a unemotional automaton.
@@theexchipmunk oof man. I'm sorry. It's more of an personal opinion really, bcuz being honest, I probably wouldn't feel any of the two options, as my emotions and feelings would be inhibited. I find the mondasian Cybermen horrific because it retains some human attributes but still covering everything with that strange suit. We don't really KNOW what happened to them inside, and I think it's for the best. The mangled body would be nightmare fuel. But I get where u come from and respect that.
I found the "Cybusmen" terrifying when they first came out. I recently rewatched Rise and Age and honestly, they still hold up. Plus given how drastically our technology has advanced, those episodes are even more relevent today
Agreed
me watching that episode thinking how the hell did everyone let themselves be completely enslaved by earpods, then proceeding to wear my airpods for 6 hours a day
Personally I love this design. So tall and imposing, whereas the Moffat Cyberman are too robotic for me.
The Moffat era look like what they are, a man in a suit doing an unconvincing robotic walk, a suit that looks like a rip off of iron man to show 'how cool we are kids'.
The Davis era look strong, imposing and lifeless machines, their boots crashing down in unison as they march, completely uniform and no personality to tell them apart.
@@greypilgrim228 Because it had a dead body in that Cybermen.
ruclips.net/video/EOjsH16k-v8/видео.html
You can still there there is human material there
The Age of Steel was one of the first episodes I ever watched, and I absolutely loved them.
It's a great two parter!
@@HarboWholmes absolutely!
yes
What I did like in the Season 10 finale was the doctor talking about how, in every civilisation, the Cybermen could appear because life existed. That every species had the potential to create their own versions.
Not Drone heads, Chibnall.
They're the most likely to go through change and adaptation
Desperate people do drastic things
Chibnall wanted 'cyberwomen' and 'female daleks' that guy is a joke.
The cybermen have no gender or identity and neither do daleks'. There is no agenda there. He's a moron and has to go.
@@GADG3Tx87 Wasn't Cyberwoman named after Ianto's girlfriend who had been partially converted?
I mean, the design is what comic fans would call pure cheesecake and the Gwen starting to have an affair with Owen subplot was trashy but it was an okay episode.
@@christopherbennett5858 she tried to upgrade someone when her chamber had been repurposed for life support
The drone head things had potential. They could've became parasitic conversion machines to create short lasting, disposable Cybermen meant only for combat.
This is the hottest of takes. I miss the Cybus design (Especially the Cyber Lord, damn that was god tier)
I've always rather liked the Cybusmen. The idea that one wealthy madman could enforce his will on people through technology always struck me as scarily believable. I would have loved to see Lumic explored in more detail as a character. Plus I actually liked the design. The old one was kind of cool, but they never looked like anything more than blokes in flight suits.
Seemingly now more a possibility with the advancements in wearable tech and even Elon Musk's Neuralink, which is now heading to the beginning of human trials.
I’ve never actually seen the Doctor Who series, but I have seen some clips, and so far my favorite villains are the Daleks, the Weeping Angels, and most of all...the Cybermen. Quite specifically the Cybus versions. They’re design is so cool, and makes them just as menacing. I actually had no idea these were alternate universe versions of the Cybermen. But they’re still awesome. But I’d like to get this one subject out of the way, and address my main problem. The reason why I haven’t been able to watch Doctor Who, any of them, is because...well, I don’t really know where to start.
Those are three of the most iconic villains, so good choice! I've always liked the Cybusmen, they look great.
It's always hard to get started with Doctor Who. I was lucky to be in the right place and the right time for the start of the revived era, so I grew up with it.
Instinct tells me that you may as well start with Rose (first episode of the revived era) but that's far from the best episode to start with. I have no idea where I'd start if I was new to it now. I think it depends what you're looking for.
Well I’m kinda looking for a somewhat fun, interesting and humorous run. So far, the part that matches that requirement is the season with the 10th Doctor. I also heard that the one with the 6th Doctor is good.
I think the safer bet would be the 10th Doctor era, since the 6th Doctor's episodes are quite polarising among fans. There are three 10th Doctor series and a set of specials after that, but you might need to just start from the beginning to understand certain things.
'Christmas Invasion' is the first 10th Doctor episode (it was a Christmas special.) It's quite divisive but I feel like it's a good little story. I recommend you start from there, so that you get a more complete 10th Doctor experience. You might be confused with a couple of things, but you should be fine. Series 2 (the first full 10th Doctor series) can be hit or miss but if you can power through that, Series 3, 4 and the 2009 Specials are some of the best the show has ever put out so bear with it!!
I started with Rose, went on for a while, and caught up with the rest of the classic lore needed to understand where everything important happens
@@HarboWholmes I love cybus men as well Davies era was before me but I watched Tennant's era more than any and the cybermen were awesome they terrified me with their conversation and I think chibnils new cybermen will be awesome to see
I love the Cybermen and when they returned in 2006, I thought they looked better than ever.
I seem to remember the Doctor hinting at one point that the cyberman route is one of the possible evolutionary routes that any civilization might take. In some degree, the Daleks are basically Kaledian Cybermen but their acceleration of evolution got rid of their humanoid shape.
Personally, I think 'Ghost in the Shell' type enhancement with retained humanity is more likely.
Also, does anyone else think that the Cybermen did the Borg better and more efficiently than Star Trek and that Star Trek probably owes royalties to the BBC.
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Why is this part of defending the despised? The Cybus Cybermen aren’t at all controversial, frankly they seem to be one of the most well loved eras of the cybermen. Am I missing something? Do people hate them? Why?
@El Limon yeah I'm confused as well because I've heard nothing but ridicule about the previous versions of Cybermen from all my friends who were bigger Dr Who fans than me but found the Cybus Cybermen as a legitimately terrifying idea, and thus loved them.
i've never really "hated" the cybus cybermen, it's just that i like the other iterations better. (excluding nightmare in silver and the iron cybermen).
Cause they feel like robots when there not I fail to connect with them emotionally cause the cybus cybermen look like robots but I understand that the point of them is to upgrade so I ain't to bothered
Wait, since when was “Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel” poorly received? Even people I’ve heard who criticized the “Cybusmen” said that they work well in this story.
The concept of cyber men has trully terrified me for a long time. Whenever they were on tv when I was younger I would hide behind the coach. The idea that they are close to unstoppable and that they steal the minds of people and turn them into cyber men and remove all emotions is truly horrifying.
I liked them in their first apearence, but in everything else they’re just kind of there.
That's a fair point, but I'd have to disagree. They are pretty prominent in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, Next Doctor and Closing Time
By that I mean they don’t do anything interesting with them, and they take a back seat to something else.
Ah, I get it now. But isn't that the case with most Doctor Who monsters?
I certainly agree with Neil Gaiman about the Cybermen always changing and evolving as they spread to more worlds and assimilate more technologies. Besides being a metaphor about our very real fixation on upgrades, it's a neat way to explain the variations we've seen across the Cybermen's history, and helps set them apart from the Daleks, who think they're already perfect as they are.
i remember watching rise of the cybermen and age of steel as a kid, the scene where they show the upgrading really distressed me. cybermen are a little bit lame but the stiff robotic movements on these cybermen makes them so much more believable, the matt smith ones i always got the feeling someone was in a suit doing "the robot" never felt as real.
I really like the idea that the mondashian and cybus men are actually linked, and I'd love to see this explored. The idea that the cybermen are a kind of memetic threat, arising in many different worlds, and many different cultures, as a kind of convergent idea, almost always taking over their originating planet, and spreading into the broader universe.
I personally prefer the 2011 versions of the 2006 Cybermen, I know they look pretty similar apart from the fact that the 2011 Cybermen have no cybus logo and are Mondasian. The 2011 Cybermen for some reason feel more threatening, it’s probably because they were holding big guns in A Good Man Goes to War.
Yvonne had a big flippin' gun
And they can easily adapt to any situation after being exposed to it once. Given time that would potentially make them invulnerable to attack.
One shot from a Dalek and a quick 'upgrade patch' later and they better start re-evaluating their 'superior race' ideology.
The Cybusmen are absolutely horrifying. The scene of people being led like cattle into a chamber where a terrifying knife and buzzsaw apparatus lobotomizes them and spits out an emotionless metal machine is scary on a level that's difficult to express.
The old cybermen look silly, I think these ones are scary, even more than the daleks. I don't like the iron man-looking ones though, they look too docile, soft, and unthreatening, mostly because of the face.
John Lumic cybermen are goldilocks
I actually really liked the introduction of the concept that Cybermen continually arise independently. That they are a conceptual inevitability that is so likely, that somehow even their physical form shares unsettling similarities.
And I agree that they're better villains, potentially, than the Daleks. Both the Cybermen and the Daleks are takes on authoritarianism or fascism. The Daleks however, are the Nazi as a special monster, that exists separately from all other people and comes to attack them from the outside. The Cybermen however - particularly this concept of the Cybermen as a kind of memetic "virus - arise from within a society. The Cybermen as fascists are a reminder that many people within society are in fact authoritarians, do in fact want fascism; want to brutalize and control their fellow citizens.
The Cybermen are unsettling because of this. The fact that they also represent the erasure of physical differences between people is another reminder of the mentality of the ethnostate fascist, the racist, the person who is terrified of variety and human texture.
In all Doctor Who monsters, in order to make them truly compelling, they need to represent something we know. The Daleks are space Fascists, the Cybermen are space Communists, the Sontarans are space Imperialists, etc. Monsters who don't represent something we know fail to invoke an emotional repose.
Honestly, I find the Cybusmen less of an overall threat, but at the same time more chilling. They're less of a threat, as their technology is confined to what is available from (parallell) Earth, whereas the Mondasian Cybermen not only achieved space travel, but continued to upgrade and advance. Hell, by Nightmare in Silver, they're straight up overpowered, potentially even capable of surpassing the Daleks in a fight. But that is what makes them less unnerving to me.
The Cybusmen are just that: Man made and designed to be believable to an extent. They're a sci-fi monster that, while still fanciful, remain more grounded in realism than their Mondasian counterparts. It's more believable that something like them could possibly exist in the future, which makes them more unnerving to me.
I just wish we get to see the 80s style cybermen in modern who one day
I grew up in the new who era as a kid so to me the cybusmen are iconic and are my fave design due to nostagia. i have fond memories of chasing my friends around the playground screaming delete and shoving them into the ground by their shoulders when catching them. good times
The Mondasian Cybermen were built by a civilization that was in decline. So of course they're more ramshackled and have more body horror going on with their design features. They were more focused on being able to fully function over anything else. Which they then overcame with future models such as the Nightmare in Silver Cybermen - who technologically were at their peak design and function-wise compared to the previous incarnations we met in the show's history.
The Cybermen of Pete's World however were made by a multi-national company whose leader was driven by his desire for physical perfection and to cheat death. John Lumic would probably point and laugh at the original Mondasian Cybermen, or be outraged with them, given how messy and rushed they look compared to his industrial-grade full metal Cybermen that were designed by him.
those 2 episodes terrified me as a kid how they turn you into a cyberman it was so scary
To be honest, age of steel was my favourite doctor who episode out of all of them.
The two different cubermen can work narratively because it shows how the upgrading of a species is not a one off event but something that can naturally happen to all species
I never knew the old ones, when I think of cybermen I do think of the cybusmen for sure ...
I don't understand what people's problem with "too robotic looking". They used to be Human, now NOTHING about them would let you guess that. That's the thing.
My favourite cyberman line is “I did my duty for Queen and Country”
How can you dislike the Cybusmen? They're my favourite ones. You cannot deny how lost they made the Doctor feel alongside Davies Daleks in Doomsday. It took so much to take them down.
Nowadays, the Doctor seemingly brushes the Daleks and Cybers off with a click of their fingers
RTD cybermen are my favorite. Not only were the episodes with them awesome (with Tennant and Billie especially) they were frightening because of how cold and emotionless they were.
I always liked the Cyberman. They have a certain realism to them. As in, we currently have the science to really understand that they ARE a real possibility. That there could be a real cyberman some time in the future. And that really makes the even scarier. By the way, no one is ever going to convince me that the writers of The Next Generation did not have them in mind when writing the Borg.
I wish they'd actually made an episode about the Mondas and Cybusmen Cybermen amalgamating their technology. Instead of the continuity of the Cybermen being ignored much like the Dalek continuity over the last few years. It's one of many things that make the show now seem very lazy with it's writing.
I remember when I was a kid and I used to have nightmares about the those Cybermen, God, those were the days...
I've also thought about Cybermen as a representation of communism, in the same way the Daleks represent fascism, with their uniformity and misplaced "compassion" in their mission to convert everybody to their line of thinking.
"We will remove class and colour and creed".
-- The Age of Steel
The only problem with the Cybusmen is that the body horror aspect of the original Cybermen isn't as overtly present which makes them less scary. Also the argument for why the Cybermen have generally been featured less despite being more interesting than the Daleks is because of the body horror aspect which makes them less "child friendly" by the standards of some out of touch executives.
Their modern factory-made appearance defiantly left their mark. Not much of a fan of them being used for the main universe' Cybermen - when they're advanced enough to go into space. But their designs as featured in Season 2 defiantly fit their origins in Pete's World.
the cybus/cybermen are my favourite doctor who villian of all time, they just look so cool but have a terrifying drive
The cybermen were always one of the villains that are always interesting villains. Though they could try one time doing a story with them where they do have individual personalities but also still hold their wish to upgrade the people as a more cunning and diverse foe for the doctor.
Sword & Dove Gaming Productions They kinda explored that in Season 12 with Jodie’s Doctor but it was done poorly :/
The Cyberman general had such potential being only half-converted but they ended up just making him pretty irrelevant instead by putting the ‘timeless children’ in the spotlight... Would’ve probably been better if the Cyberman was the focus of the show and underwent some sort of character development but nope.
tbh I don't find the cybermen frightening at all, the only negative aspects of being a cyberman are the lack of individuality and emotions, plus the painful upgrading process. Apart from that they are just transhumans (people with technologically upgraded bodies) with a LOT of benefits over being normal humans, ie, I don't know, IMMORTALITY? And transhumanism is increasingly becoming accepted and will become commonplace in the near future, with the only detractors being people who are deathly afraid of advancing technology.
Well,the lack of individuality and emotion has stagnated the entire species of the Cyberman
As someone who's experienced almost every type of Cyberman on screen in 1 way or another and got my start with the Cybusmen, I've got a soft spot for Lumic's stompy bois. They still embody the core cyberman ethos of "we must survive", especially in their later stories. They're certainly WAY better than what the Moffat Cybermen became in their later stories - like, the whole "Dark Water" thing was a travesty IMO, with the Cybermen just being generic henchmen for Missy that should've been replaced by generic robot zombies rather than ruining an iconic monster.
Ideally, tho you'd want the Cyberman to have human features instead of being like robots to remind you they are part human, personally I feel it doesn't matter if the writing is good. Due to this one of my favourite Cybermen moment is with the Cybus Cybermen in "Age Of Steel", when Mrs Moore takes out a Cybermen, only for her to break the emotional inhibiter, and the Cybermen is revealed to be a woman who was about to get married! That one conversation is more impactful and says more about the Cybermen to me than any design ever could.
The whole point though is to remove what makes a human individual and that means removing emotion and humanity from that person to become uniform and it shows well with the Cybusmen the cybermen from the 80s were way too human even showing emotional inflection in their speech.
What I found scariest about them was the complete lack of guns. In the first 2 eps they were just a Marching Unstoppable force like at the part and when they killed ricky no shooting just a constant force. Then they added wristblasters in the army of ghosts which put me off.
I find it funny how you say mondashian cyber men, though they are dashing it still makes me laugh, keep up the good work.
I freaking loved the Cybus Cybermen when they appeared in the series. I had vague knowledge of the older series, but they were my introduction to the concept, and it absolutely worked.
Season 2 Cybermen were my personal favorite. I struggled with the less mechanical features of early Mondasian Cybermen. I feel that the best horror spawned by the Cybermen is their transformation from warm, living people to cold, emotionless monsters.
When I was a little kid I used to have nightmares about these Cybermen
So you had a nightmare of silver....
I'll see myself out
The episode is titled a nightmare in silver but you get an A for effort
captain banana peel it was a pun because it's a nightmare of the cybermen not a nightmare in the cybermen because that doesn't sound right
But I guess the in could have worked too
captain banana peel that the first A Ive ever got so thanks
You can see the brutal aspect of cyber conversion in that one Torchwood episode with Yanto's girlfriend
Cybusmen scared me to death as a kid. The Cybermen from the series 10 finale scare me still. Being painfully "upgraded" into a cold robotic shell that removes your freewill until something is fortunate enough to kill you is more terrifying than what other Who monsters can do to you. I think they were great.
I never minded the RTD Cybermen, but of course they are different they're from a different universe. My main problem with Cyberman is that I feel I have already seen the cybermen perfected, I know they aren't meant to be but the Borg from Star Trek basically perfected practically all aspects of cybermen
I hate how I never saw one comment about Handles, the cyberman head from the 11th doctors final episode
I still find the first cybermen the scariest because you could still see the human hands.
Same to the fifth doctor cybermen, you could see the bottom jaw.
I remember watching this on Disney XD in about 2015. Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel were my favorite of the Doctor Who episodes they aired that I was able to watch.
I see the Moffat era Cybermen, I think they’re a continuation from the 80s Telosian Cybermen (but they are awful compared to the wonderful Telos Cybermen I grew-up with)
I personaly think the series 10 episode "the doctor falls" was a missed opportunity to bring back the rest of the mondasian cybermen designs.
I’ve never heard criticism of cybusmen. To a lot of people, like me, it was the first introduction to the cybermen. As a kid i was quite scared of them, imagining if I saw them in real life, they are definitely threatening.
Personally I'd prefer to be a Cybus cyberman than a Mondas because it's done over a shorter period of time whereas Mondas cybermen are converted over a much longer time and they can just silence your screams of pain
As I understand it, the early Cybermen were as much a critique on medical technology as on mechanization. Ideas of replacing limbs and cosmetic surgery were new and intimidating at the time.
I was also rather fond of the "CybusMen", and I don't quite get the hate. They certainly don't seem any sillier than the ones in, say, Silver Nemesis. I find their design to be very serviceable.
But I also think that the original Mondasian versions were the most uniquely terrifying, with their off-key voices and nearly human faces, hinting at something horrible beneath a thin surgical mask. I'm happy that they were revisited so effectively!
The fact that they remove the brain and put it in a suit always made them darker for me.
They don’t show the surgery (except a little in torchwood) but the fact it’s a detached brain in the suit made them darker.
In moffat’s run they seemed to change this to the cyber helmet going over the head and the cyber suit going over the body. Almost like a suit, it seemed to diminish their impact.
Under RTD it was clear Jackie Tyler and the other cybermen couldn’t be saved and all they could do was end their suffering. Under Moffat it was more reversible, even with just emotional overload like when Craig heard Alfie cry and it made him reverse the conversion.
I think nightmare in silver helped add more to the cybermen’s intimidation. Because we saw how extreme people were in preventing cybermen from spreading, even destroying a galaxy. That helped make it clear how dangerous they were again.
I learned 2 things.
People didn’t like the Cybusmen, or the episodes they first appeared in.
Cybusmen look the best. Boxy design looks better than the overly sleek ones.
3:25 EXACTLY. The Cybusmen alwats struck me as a self-contained Twilight Zone episode which the TARDIS then stumbles into. The best kind of episode.
I love the cybus cybermen. Truly the defining look of the cybermen for me. Their entrance in rise of the cybermen’s dinner party scene is still just so good.
I want a Big Finish story where the Mondasian Cybermen and the Cybusmen meet.
Shout out to the dad in closing time who rejected conversation through sheer will power to protect his son
Conversion
Yeah, I'd also be terrified of the Abzorbaloff coming at me with no escape
Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel is one of my favorite episodes of the revived series specifically for the themes and imagery depicted in the episodes as a whole. I'd dare say it's become even more indicative of our society as time went on.
-The advancement of technology to the point where it pretty much controls our lives: Fess up; how many of us can go half a day without looking at our phones now, with social media being pretty much force fed to us, only less overtly than in the episode itself.
-The Cybermen's now iconic unison march with the hydraulic stomping is an eerie reflection on the single-minded hive consciousness they have, which can also reflect on how our technology nowadays pretty much unifies us into a singular mode of thinking: How many of us have leapt on some social media induced bandwagon?
-Regarding John Lumic; the man who created the alternate Cybermen: You think some despot on our Earth wouldn't be ecstatic if they had the ability to take the people they see more as an inconvenience, rather than those they're meant to look out for the wellbeing of, and turn them into uniform, emotionless machines without individual thought or personalities?
The nightmare in steel cyber
Men look good as just robots but not good as ripped apart zombie cyborgs basically.
Honestly I find the Cybus Cybermen a lot better. Mondasian Cybermen to me look a little too plane and unfinished. I know a lot of people would disagree with me but I find these probably one of the best
That was the point. It was explained in the Spare Parts story. The Mondasian Cybermen were a very rushed design. The whole population of the planet was not originally going to be converted, but with everything falling apart around them they had little choice. The problem was that they barely had any materials left to use, so the first batch of Cybermen were made using scrap and bodyparts from graveyards.
As someone who doesn't watch the show, I remember seeing that episode out of context years ago.
The description of cyber-conversion in one of the classic Who books was terrifying... they could have gone really grim. Wish I could remember which one it was - there was a baby that got converted but because the process was designed for adults it became this insane metal thing smashing through the facility... still get flashbacks to nightmares from that.
The Cybusmen are actually my favorite Cybermen. I remember watching these two episodes with my dad as a kid, and I remember being terrified of them. These Cybermen had the same effect on me as the daleks had on kids when they first came out. The idea that even I could be turned into a Cybermen terrified me.
Not a Dr Who fan, but just realised that a blanket that I've had since I was a child actually had a cybusman on it...
Literally the only reason I can imagine that someone would prefer the classic Who Cybermen is because of nostalgia. They look like rejected power rangers villain designs.
Because the body horror. The Cybusmen are just a brain in a robot. Is so cartoonnish.
when Doctor who (new) version was airing, i went onto the BBC website to play some games they had. a Dalek game inspired by... well, the episode Dalek. They also had a card game similar to war, but with the classic who monsters. Cybermen were present as multiple cards to reflect their different versions. I knew about them from some pictures. As such, i knew they were likely going to come up. With thy Cybusmen, i was blown away at the time of how cool they were.
They're just too robotic for me. There's less focus on the creepy self-surgery of the originals and I don't think Russell ever fully understood what having your emotions removed meant.
And why do they kill people? All Doctor Who monsters kill people! What makes the concept of the Cybermen more interesting is that they refuse to kill, instead planning to do something worse. It's terrifying.
I seem to have managed to miss all Classic Cybermen, though I must have known of them because I instantly recognised the head in "Dalek". So this episode was my intro to the species. Loved the design. When, later, I saw clips of the Classic models, and heard them, I couldn't help but laugh; I suspect that if I'd seen them first I still wouldn't have been that impressed.
I'm all for advances in tech, but .... I don't own a smartphone, I don't use satnav [though I could do with one, if only to tell me where I am when I get lost, rather than for actual navigation]. The prob is that when people let machines do their thinking for them, they often forget how to do it for themselves.
Wait hold up. People actually complained about the revived Cybermen. I have never heard anybody complain about the Cybermen introduced in Rise or the Cybermen and Age of Steel. Everyone I know including me really loved the these Cybermen
The first Doctor Who episodes I ever watched were the Cybusmen origin two-parters and they absolutely terrified me. I think they were the most realistic idea of how we might end up with a Cyberman future, and I still check behind doors at night to make sure there isn't a steel monster on the other side waiting for me.
I’ve personally never had a problem with the Cybus men. I think they’re the best use of the cyber men in the revived run of episodes.
This design has always been my favourite and I also really like the new design with Jodies Doctor it perfectly combined new who Cybermen and the classic series cybermen which the iron man cybermen tried to do. Also my geek heart screamed when the cybus style cybermen were brought back for Jodie
I didn’t know the Cybusmen were were despised, I’ve only heard negatives about the newest ones that replaced Cybus men
I completely agree. I didn't realise that some people didn't like this design, probably older people who preferred the classic designs. They are my absolute favourite, and as with all my other Doctor Who favourites, I don't know which I put in second.