My favourite WTYP thing is when someone's like "ooooh shit, it looks like [horrific thing] could happen very easily here!" and Justin is just like "we'll get to that"
Achktually, the reason why it was SEALs who were tasked with the Bin Laden raid was because at the time, SEALs had responsibility over Afghanistan while Delta had responsibility over Iraq. As a result, it was more practical to have the SEALs do it. Of course the best part of it was that one of the helicopter pilots when they were doing the practice raids in preparation for the Bin Laden raid supposedly pointed out that they would lose a helicopter. This was because he noticed that the real compound had a stone wall around it while the mock up built for the practice raids had a chain link fence. Lo and behold, when the raid happens for real, they lose a helicopter because the stone wall blocked air flow which contributed to a vortex ring state which when combined with the Stealth Hawks basically being a Black Hawk with extra weight resulted in one of the helicopters dropping like a stone.
I was a flightline mechanic in the Marines for the V-22, I knew one of the Marines that died in the Morocco crash. And I got a story to share. To start with, you guys mentioned that the rotors fold, but you left out that as an additional space-saving measure for aboard ship the whole wing rotates 90 degrees. When they first deployed the Ospreys to Iraq and Afghanistan, they started having problems with the rotation space getting clogged with sand and other shit, something the engineers at Bell Boeing apparently thought couldn't happen. So they brought two of these aircraft with stuck wings back early; one went to the engineers so they could devise a solution and the other came to my squadron so we could figure out how to actually implement the solution in the field. What they came up with was, basically, there are these little guide stubs for the wing to rotate over, and they manufactured these little Teflon coated copper covers to put over the stubs so the wing could still rotate in spite of all the sand and what-not. They then sent them to us, and we had to jack the whole wing up about six inches so we could slide these things into place, along with cleaning out all the junk that was in there. Took us about four hours altogether; the engineers that were with us said it had taken them three days.
You know I'm getting the impression that trying to design an entirely new type of aircraft and then throwing all the bells and whistles on it like transformer folding shit and mid-air refueling might be a bad idea. I mean, we can do all that shit with helicopters and planes because we built them without those and figured out how that shit worked before we started doing extra shit. The Osprey meanwhile hasn't learned to walk yet and they're already trying to make it do an act on the double rings. When you increase the number of bells and whistles it's hard to figure out which bell ain't ringing when something ain't right.
@@russetwolf13 Blade fold / wing stow did take quite a bit of work to get right. Aerial refueling, however, has been pretty common place since the late 50s. The only complication on the MV-22 was that the probe needed to be telescoping so the plane could fit below decks on an LHD. A minor inconvenience. Fun fact: Although these guys made a big deal about that refueling photo, the situation is much worse on most helicopters. On the V-22 the probe is a good 30 feet or more in front of the rotors. On the H-53, the tip of the probe is *inside* of the rotor disk. There's more than one incident where -53s have cut off their own refuel probes (and severely damaged the rotor blades).
@@shannonmcbride2010 I know but the issue is, again, we've never really done any of that shit with tilt rotors so every extra thing is just asking something new to fuck up. And yeah, part of the reason they wanted the tilt rotors was cause midair refueling of helicopters is a shit way to extend range and it fucks up constantly. I wonder if a rigid rotor helicopter would do it better.. Oh shit they need to do a video on the AH-54 Cheyenne. Fucking impossibly advanced helicopter that got fucked over by bureaucracy. It's a great example of how the Military Industrial Complex is so dysfunctional that it actually repels good shit in favor of people who bribe better.
@@alexscriabin Well, they did make Alyx, which is apparently a good VR experience. I don't have VR gear (maybe my next computer build), and in any case I would like to see the half life story explored more. I've just played Control, and Disco Elysium, two vastly different games but both with incredibly good writing and stories. I hunger for more of this.
There are plenty of nitwits that want America to go back to retrieve that pile of stockpile and junk. If the new Emirate government wants to blow their very limited supply of money on repairing and maintaining it, fine by me.
@@Tenebraeification From what I have read, they are just storing all the abandoned broken whirlybirds. They want us back as trading partners, and if we don't, they will just work with the Chinese.
The copter that crashed at the bin laden raid crashed because the walls from the compound caused a vortex ring state. The mock compounds they used for practice had chain link fences instead of walls so this didn’t happen in training. They were warned by a pilot during planning that the solid walls would make them crash but went ahead and did it anyways
Speaking of nuclear pulse propulsion, Project Orion, I bumped into Freeman Dyson several years ago at a local footrace. I was the one nerd that recognized the short grandpa ambling around (or cared enough to actually approach him). He was there for his wife participating in the Hillsborough Steeplechase race. I probably embarrassed myself in how fanboy I got, but I got to shake his hand and got a couple of pictures together. Good times.
@@bobbowie5334 Simply launching traditional chemical rockets have nearly sparked WWIII. At least one included a Norwegian sounding rocket. I would imagine launching a nuclear pulse rocket would (or at least should) include lots of fanfare and global notices. Operating nuclear pulses like that would also be a massive violation of the Outer Space Treaty. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls
You can copyright deadlock it if you stick a bunch of very much copyrighted content from different places at the end. The different companies' algorithms will fight over who's supposed to get the add revenue forever, so adds won't go up.
Hey totally off topic, I just dropped a knife and successfully suppressed my instinct to grab it and avoided cutting my hand, so I’m feeling pretty pro-gamer right now.
I dropped a knife recently and didn't even attempt to catch it but the bastard thing still hit my leg on the way down before hitting the floor putting two bloody cuts on my ankle. The pro-gamer thing is to not drop the knife in the first place.
Additionally: The V-22 has also been a financial disaster for Lego. They had to recall hundreds of thousands of already produced sets due to mechanical problems. Or due to them producing a military vehicle and slapping some "rescue" stickers on it, depending on who you ask.
@@justinokraski3796 Build a tiltrotor aircraft and then never rescue the man who has fallen into the river in Lego city because the downdraft keeps pushing him underwater!
I mentioned this on twitter but a family friend is one of the engineers who developed this piece of shit. He did something with software and two other things I can’t remember - he had the patents on his wall. Anyways I have a family member who was a Marine and who hated the V-22, was even in one that started a fire on the ground. I told the engineer this story and he got red in the face mad saying about how that every crash was operator error and there was nothing wrong with the V-22, insinuating the marines weren’t competent enough to use them correctly. That’s your Boeing helicopters aerospace engineer attitude for ya.
NuclearSavety he works for the helicopter division and the last time I saw him (about 5 years ago) something about fly by wire compensating pilots yaw input.
There is a fun footnote in the history of the "we have to rescue these hostages from Iran" story: the YMC-130H. BASICALLY what they decided was that they had to take off and land from a football(soccer) stadium near where the hostages were or some shit like that. In order to take off and land in the space of a single football(soccer) field, they decided that the best course of action would be to strap a bunch of rocket and missile motors on to a C-130, facing forwards, downwards, and backwards. This way, you could slow the plane down REALLY fast and also take off REALLY fast. It might have worked, except apparently during testing with one of the three prototypes that existed, the flight crew decided to use manual control of the systems one time instead of automatic, and the shock from the second stage of rocket motors facing forwards going off was so aggressive that they thought the plane was on the ground already, so they didn't fire off the downward facing ones to slow the plane's decent down, and managed to drop it straight out of the sky cracking the fucking wings off of it. There's video of this on this very website, just punch YMC-130H in to the search and it'll come up.
@@dr.velious5411 not very high, but the issue was that the shafts driving the rotors had clutches that were too tight, so if the propellers were stuck on something while the motor was running to spin them, all the torque was focused on a set of 3, tiny, 8-tooth gears in the center of the gearbox. tiny, plastic lego gears, as it turns out, are not very sturdy.
I thought the lego version was canceled because only the military uses them and Lego doesn’t make modern military stuff. Only a few made it out in New Zealand and Australia I believe
What I love most about this episode is that it illustrates how new military equipment decisions are made in the same way that new IT software decisions are made by executives. They just pick the thing that has the most features regardless of how well (or if actually) the thing can do those features. What I'm saying is that the V22 is the ServiceNow of military aircraft.
Something y'all didn't mention was how LOUD these things are. I was stationed on MCAS Futenma which has an Osprey squadron, which means every time one of them flew overhead everyone on the entire base had to stop talking and wait for it to finish what it was doing. Sucked for us but it was even worse for the Okinawans, who justifiably had some people permanently protesting the military bases for regularly operating the most notoriously unsafe aircraft ever over their densely populated island.
There's 15s and hh60s there as well. Ive heard v22s and they aren't nearly as loud as fighter jets. And I've heard more about 16s and 15s crashing recently then v22s. I know someone who actually works on the v22s and he says they haven't had any issues.
i live in Niagara Falls, Canada. There is an airbase in Buffalo, NY which constantly has fighters, bombers, and helicopters of nearly every description flying formations over the falls. the V-22 is so loud you can feel it thumping in your chest over 5km away. Amazing to see, but annoying to be near.
i think you all would have a good time covering the R101 airship disaster, a perfect example of british hubris, and it'd offer a nice segway into modern airships which may offer a way to integrate farther apart communities and also offer a less pollutive form of cargo transport
As someone who served in the part of the air force that didn't get issued enough clothing, much less a chair, yeah that is the correct term for the air force
I genuinely can't wrap my head around you guys saying that the A-10 is good at its job. I mean maybe if you consider that job being friendly firing British troops. Actually, I changed my mind, carry on.
To be fair I think they said it more as a meme rather then actual enthusiasm for the plane. And you have to admit the A-10 has a very good press agent.
@@FakeSchrodingersCat I mean yeah, its essentially an abrams with wings (except unlike the abrams it is utterly deficient in all matters except looking pretty and making the funny noise)
@@discipleofdagon8195 That is exactly what I am talking about the A10 is nowhere near as effective and certainly not as durable as an Abrams. But people are convinced it is a flying tank that goes Brrrrrrrrr.
I just came across your channel through the Newfoundland railway video since I’m a huge train nut, and I literally don’t care what anyone says, the podcast is quite enjoyable! You guys are really fun to listen to! It’s nice to listen to these podcasts on interesting topics that are fun to learn about while listening to the dynamic y’all have as a friend group! Anyways just thought I’d leave this comment to help boost the algorithm and to just say, please keep doing what you do!
One technical curiosity about the Osprey is that because the rotors exceed the ground clearance of the aircraft, the rotor blades come pre-fractured so that if the aircraft has to belly-flop crash land while in fixed wing mode, the blades will fly off after hitting the ground instead of digging into the ground and ripping the engine and wings to shreds. The plane is so broken they had to break it more as a safety feature.
Sooooo it breaks up in a controlled fashion to not destroy the whole aircraft? You know things like the f15s and other aircraft have the same measures in place to try and preserve the most amount of parts right?
"The plane is so broken they had to break it more as a safety feature" - This is a funny joke, but not a real criticism. A lot of things have engineered failure points. One example, the gas tube in a M16 will burst if the weapon is fired for too long without allowed to cool. It acts as a safety fuse to prevent the barrel from being ruined. If you were allowed to keep firing, it would actually be worse. On the M4 carbine, because of the changes to the barrel it created a weak spot where it was possible to fire the weapon until the heat treatment of the steel was changed - this lead to barrels bursting and a new barrel profile being designed. On modern automobiles the crumple zone is an engineered failure point, the car will sustain more damage than older cars to protect the occupant.
V-22 Osprey is an anti-imperialist hero who has bravely murdered many marines at the cost of its own life while draining money that could be used for actually useful aircrafts. I salute you, brave hero.
Funny you should suggest flying with a hummvee underneath and using it as a wrecking ball: that is exactly what happened in an Arma 3 multiclan game I played in. Granted, it was on accident, and the Cobra helicopter crew did not survive the hummvee colliding with them, but...
what i love about this podcast is that this episode’s focus isnt necessarily a subject i would go out of my way to learn about, but that i’m going to enjoy anyway because you’re all just good at this. thank you for all The Content (also in the next the god damn news segment can you cover ms flight sim 2020 and how people are flying over groverhaus because the screenshots of perfectly rendered groverhaus compared to the washington monument and buckingham palace looking like weird office blocks and also the eldritch horror terrain... well i mean, you absolutely love to see it)
When I was in Afghanistan, there was always a run on Rip Its in the DFAC because us USAF guys would just fill our coolers with Rip Its for sitting on the taxi waiting for a flight to leave 30 minutes late. Then the Marines found out which DFAC had the Rip Its and would wait until a lull in DFAC traffic and come raid them as well.
My favorite thing I read about the Osprey is that despite them having them in the Marine 1 livery, the US President is not allowed to fly on one due to how often they crash
Not true. The reason HMX-1 doesn't use the V-22 for presidential transport is that it's too big to land on the south lawn of the White House. It actually has one of the best safety records in Marine aviation
As long as your not a SELF ID adovcate and not the steelman version, then the attack Helicopter if used incorrectly like calling all trans people the attack Helicopter would be a mischaracterization of trans people. Unless your one of those nose pierced blue haired AFABs college kids then the Attack helicopter accurately describes the absurdity of your ideology
Clearly we need to install a counter howitzer to offset the physics kerfuffle caused by the first howitzer, which instead of knocking it out of the sky, will just implode it.
35:40 ...er, I'm pretty sure the inciting incident for the development of the V-22 wasn't "brownout is bad", but rather "we need something that can operate like a helicopter but has a lot more range, because refueling helicopters in brownout conditions because they lack the range to make the whole trip in one go is really dangerous". The entire philosophy behind the V-22 is "helicopter but faster and with a lot more range", which it definitely nails. Even carry weight isn't really the point: it's range and speed. Super-heavy lift helicopters (or even just heavy lift helicopters) specialize in carrying large payloads, but they do this by sacrificing range and speed.
Precisely this; it wasn't in response to the failure of Eagle Claw, but to the cancellation of Credible Sport, which itself was the response to Eagle Claw's failure. The helicopters and the complex transfer where brownout happened was only required because the only viable landing spot was a football field, and a C-130 cannot (normally) land in such a space. The V-22, while it has had issues, has demonstrated it would have been able to fill this role quite well.
@@iskierka8399 Yeah this is true, however I wonder how much the military can depend on such a thing when doing *long range combat insertion*, which is the full original justification right? To put it simply if Bin Laden lived a few hundred miles inlands with similar set up, will the SEALs jump in with this or choose to air refuel black hawks? For what I see on this website people praise its ability mostly in logistics, and I really wonder if Bell would come up with V-280 if V-22 can fill the combat insertion role well.
20:35 Hey, autogyros are awesome aircraft. Although they can't take off vertically, they can land vertically, and they can safely land vertically even in the event of an engine failure. Their top rotor is like a parachute that is always deployed and will safely bring the aircraft back to the ground.
19:50 Orion project, that was the name of the nuclear pulse engine project. The best proposed nuclear project however was the Qattara Depression Project. The idea was to nuke a canal from the Mediterranean sea to the Quattara depression in northern Africa to create an artificial inlet sea.
The thing about project Orion was it wasn't proposed in the 50s, but the late 60s when they totally did understand nuclear fallout. They did some extremely dodgy math to show that this massive thing wouldn't splatter deadly fallout downwind of its launch site. Freeman Dyson was one of those guys who had a lot of ideas. Many of them were brilliant, others... not so much.
@@ericjamieson Orion would probably be the least fallout-problematic of the civilian nuclear bomb applications projects, except maybe for Project PACER and Gnome (detonate nuclear weapons in big, water-filled underground cavities to make steam to turn turbines).
If it wasn't for that monitized video (I was recently recommended it) i wouldn't have discovered this amazing podcast! This is the first, and only podcast I listen too! Ive been binge watching every episode since!!!!!
I’ve watched a couple of episodes out of sequence, so during the descriptions of this thing’s various failure modes, I couldn’t help but picture an old magazine ad: V-22 OSPREY REDUCES A WHOLE MARINE TO SOUP-LIKE CONSISTENCY IN UNDER 30 SECONDS.
Opening of the podcast: "Here's the real-life scenario that prompted construction of the osprey." 39:30: "The osprey was built for a scenario which doesn't exist." Fine work.
Yeah cause the Osprey as built is even worse for the kind of situation that happened in three Iranian operation. So while the incident in Iran prompted the Osprey construction, the scenario in which it was envisaged to be operating has not existed.
Oh good, the podcast's favourite mode of transportation (airplanes) finally crossed with Kobe Bryant's favourite mode of transportation (helicopters). What could possibly go wrong
I'm totally into that movie. Expandables 17: Wrecking Ball. A humvee, ropeded to an (burning) Osprey flown by Stallone, ramming through a wall of a terrorist hideout, with Chuck Norris strapped to the front deflecting bullets away with his bare hands, while Arnie is chewing explosives and spit-killing snipers, and Van Damme hanging below the vehicle split-kicking sharks with lasers on their heads, R.D. Anderson repairing the Osprey's rotors with a bit of string and a ball point pen, and Christopher Walken sitting shotgun, just staring menacingly while eating an orange. 'murika, F*** yeah! Please do not ever change your podcast, you're the fuel oil to my mental NH4NO3.
God I fucking wish the Expendables was half as awesome as that description. Also I'm pretty sure there's a Furry Inflation Fetish porn parody out there somewhere called The Expandables. I feel it in my heart, I know it is true.
@@joshuahadams the Pelican and a lot of other dropship designs are all inspired by the Osprey, since, you know, the Osprey is a program from the 80s and Halo came out in 2001...
Oh god the Discworld joke about the inventor trying to make an internal combustion engine where the feed mechanism put one too many pellets of gunpowder into the combustion chamber is based on a real thing…
40:00 Okay, several things to unpack here. Firstly, the F-35 fulfills a role that a LOT of people need fulfilled, which is why so many nations signed on to be part of the program and why they all want F-35s of their own. What role does the F-35 serve? Two, maybe three: air superiority, attacking important ground targets (mainly enemy air defenses, but others as well), and using its excellent sensor suite to designate/find enemy targets for other assets (like surface-to-surface missiles, cruise missiles, or air-to-ground missiles from other aircraft). The F-35 is a fifth generation fighter, and one of the only ones to have reached mass production (there's the F-22, the Chinese J-20, and the Russian PAK-FA which hasn't really entered mass production and is so expensive that Russia only plans to make a handful of them, period--and then there's the F-35. And since the F-22 and J-20 are banned from export to other countries, the F-35 will be the very first fifth-generation fighter the vast majority of the world will be able to get). Within those roles, you have bonus capabilities: the F-35C is designed to operate off of a catapult-capable carrier, which is obviously very important for the US Navy, and the F-35B can take off and land vertically, meaning that it is able to operate from catapult-less carriers (which is obviously very important to the US Navy's smaller carriers as well as everyone else's carriers--which lack catapults) as well as operate from shorter airfields or even quickly-constructed short airfields made after an amphibious operation or from places where shorter runways are available but longer ones are not. And the chief thing about the F-35 that makes it stand out so much from previous, fourth-generation aircraft is stealth. Stealth is not just being literally undetectable (though that's a very nice capability to have)--it's about making it harder to detect you, harder to track you, harder to attack you, and harder to hit you. When modern air defenses consist of very deadly surface to air missiles backed by capable radar systems, good stealth is not merely about being the apex predator of the skies, it's more like the price of entry. Before stealth, we'd basically throw Wild Weasels at the problem--squadrons assigned the task of flying into enemy air defenses and then shooting home-on-radiation missiles at the radars that were tracking them to shoot missiles at them. Obviously, that is incredibly dangerous and not as viable as it used to be, thanks to evolving tactics and technology for countering home-on-radiation missiles. Of course, there are other major advances--things like networked sensor feeds and communications, allowing for one fighter to fire a missile using another fighter's sensor data, or for a stealth fighter to feed sensor data directly to, say, a warship with a slew of big surface-to-surface missiles ready for targeting data. And honestly, the carrier capability is really a bigger deal than you'd think. Right now, catapult-less carriers are stuck with old Harrier jets, which are slow, difficult to land vertically, have a very limited payload capacity, and limited range. The F-35B and C are basically the badly-needed replacement for those Harriers, representing a MASSIVE leap in capability that has been a long time coming. Now, it's absolutely fair to say that the F-35 program has been poorly run/managed for much of its development time. It could have been and absolutely should have been done better. But no one who really understands the subject of what the F-35 is meant for, why it's needed, and why it was never cancelled would say that it's an answer to a nonexistent problem, or that its role is purely hypothetical. In truth, it's opposite: it's THE answer to a very real, very clear problem, and its role already exists and has been sitting without a proper fighter to fill it in the modern age for too long already. And to answer your ultimate question: what exactly do you need a modern, multirole, carrier-capable stealth fighter for if war with China is inconceivable due to globalization and Russia's only aircraft carrier is shit? Simple: war has changed. It's not like in WW2, where nations involved are fighting to the finish with all that they have. Rather, we can expect lots of posturing, skirmishes, and short "wars" that are basically a single battle before a diplomatic resolution is reached (but that resolution will partially depend on the outcome of that battle). If China's J-20 is not countered by a fifth-generation stealth fighter, then China can basically make a territorial claim and dare anyone to say otherwise. China is currently building its own carrier force, which will soon surpass Russia's (if it hasn't already) and quickly eclipse it entirely after that. And since any conflict with China is likely to involve territorial disputes in the western Pacific, nations like Japan and the US will need a fifth generation stealth fighter that can operate from carriers or more than the few air force bases with long enough runways to sustain them (and since the F-22 has such limited range, that limits their ability to operate substantially). The posturing I mentioned earlier plays into it as well: if China has its own stealth fighters but knows that Japan has none and the US's hundred-ish Raptors haven't been flown halfway around the world to be stationed in Japan, its leaders will know that it can make aggressive moves with relative impunity. (Also, aircraft carriers are not merely for defeating other aircraft carriers. Carriers are a mobile, self-contained air force--so anywhere you need air operations, you bring a carrier or several, and you aren't just plain fucked if there isn't an adequate air base close enough to where you need to operate.) That, and economic interdependency between the US and China has been steadily decreasing for years. Maybe it won't be an issue five years from now, but ten, fifteen? It very well could be. And since developing a fifth-generation fighter is NOT a quick endeavor, you need to tackle these problems well ahead of time, because by the time you need them, if you don't have them already, it's far, far too late.
Also nations go to war with major trade partners all the time. All of economist were sure world war 1 would be over in a few months because they would run out of money. They were half right everyone did run out of money but they didn't stop fighting
1:18:34 The V-22 is a Bell Boeing thing and the AW609 is a Bell Leonardo thing so that's probably not the case. 1:19:59 Good luck landing a Greyhound on a Marine LHD. Everything I find says the Osprey has twice the internal load capacity of the Greyhound and can carry equivalent loads for equivalent ranges when in *STOL* (plane) mode. The closest thing I found to a source supporting your claim is that an Osprey can sling load 10,000lb for 50nmi while wholly in *VTOL* (helicopter) mode, which is something you'd need to do for items too bulky for the cargo hold, something the Greyhound can't do at all.
53:10 If an aircraft carrier has to shoot at small boats full of explosives, then its entire escort group has already failed miserably. Plus, you know, it also has the ability to launch fighters and helicopters to attack those targets FOR it. Either way, that just isn't its role. It'd be like putting cannons on a nuclear submarine--it'd serve no real purpose that isn't far better fulfilled by other types of ships, and it'd compromise its ability to do what it's actually really good at.
1:07:36 They said it was because of the walls surrounding the compound. They said the air was pushed down but was deflected up into that donut shape by the walls. I buy it but that’s an odd oversight when training for months they trained. I’d think it would be taught in helicopter flying school that helicopters aren’t cats and cannot sit in open boxes.
I read all the popular mechanics issues on this damn plane and thinking it was the coolest, then I started learning about all the deaths. It took me so long to realize the only reason they kept this thing going was the money.
To be clear, speaking from current/recent experience, we absolutely still use humvee’s. Especially the ones that have what is essentially tarps for doors.
another fun thing about this thing is that Lego made a set based on it that was so poorly designed that it would literally break the pieces from regular use.
1:16:50 The problem with a 6-minute leeway for your train to be late is subway trains often run more frequently than that. If you're so late that you're arriving when the train *behind you* is supposed to get there, You Are Not On Time.
Ultimately, the V-22 is a fairly revolutionary design, accomplishing what had been attempted before but never done: a practical tilt-rotor/tilt-wing aircraft. While it has had some accidents and major teething problems, that's simply a given whenever you're pushing the envelope with a new kind of design, but the payoff is usually worth it. Most notably, the V-22 can do several important things that no other aircraft can, and costs less than half as much to operate per hour as the CH-53 heavy lift helicopter that it has been compared to.
Like many Spaniards, Juan de la Cierva y Codorníu, 1st Count of la Cierva, died in 1936. However, he actually died in an aviation accident in Croydon. Also he supported Franco.
"Well, what if we had this scenario that doesn't exist, and they'll be like let's build something around that" this was a succinct description of most "tech" start-ups. I thought Nate and Alice were the ones from TF, not you :O
You're leaving out that this was in competition with the Harrier in the race for VTOL aircraft. Jet VTOL is very fuel consuming and range quite short. I saw (and heard, dammit) the prototype of V22 for years at NASA Ames in Mountain View, CA. Physicists and engineers were actually excited (and worried) about it because of that mechanical advantage and cargo carrying capacity due to advances in the rotor/propellers and lift wing. Of course this is before rotating wing and armor and all the other BS added on. They never imagined it as a war aircraft but sweetly, if naively, as a way to get supplies to remote villages and more of a Red Cross vehicle. Enthusiasm and worry was intermixed because of the numerous engineering contradictions, but remember, these were the Apollo guys. Then, as some things were getting worked out the program was cut off from general science access and contribution. We still had to endure uncounted hours of the thing hovering and testing near our buildings, no conversations outside possible, much worse than the U2s taking off because it went on and on for hours. Even though it has many challenges, I wonder what could have been accomplished if the project hadn't been closed off and then a bunch of stuff it was never designed for added on.
V-22's answer to the problems they had at Desert One is in the speed and range, not anything to do with solving brownout (which sounds like a "find the soft spots in the armor" kind of task). If they had V-22s for Eagle Claw, they wouldn't have had to build a fricken giant fuel base in the middle of the desert in the first place. Spot on though about helicopters being fascist.
those things are ALWAYS flying around Oceanside. Over my house especially, they're loud as shit. I live right next to camp pendleton which looks a lot like the picture with the gutted humvee, but with the 5 freeway in front
New technology ... When the American Sabre pilots were trained at Nellis, where the casualty rate of their training was so high, they were told, "If you ever see the flag at full staff, take a picture". At New River A.S. helicopters are going down all the time during normal training operations. Helicopters are inherently unsafe.
F86 Sabers 9,800 were manufactured. . There were well over 2,000 Class A flight mishaps in a 22-year period, more than half of which involved a destroyed aircraft. 573 fatalities.
I don't know if you take topic suggestions but I would really like to hear a podcast about the Sewol ferry, the Doña Paz or the DC-10 (especially its cargo door problem) Anyway I only found your podcast a few days ago and I love it. So thank you for providing me with entertainment (and a distraction from studying).
My favourite WTYP thing is when someone's like "ooooh shit, it looks like [horrific thing] could happen very easily here!" and Justin is just like "we'll get to that"
Justin: "so... in [DATE]"
everyone else: "... Oh no"
[Ridiculous scenario proposed by Alice or Liam]
Justin: Yes!
@@murciadoxial8056 "At [time]"
everyone else: "Aw fuck."
Everybody laughing about using a helicopter to launch a rocket to space with dynamite when we use lantern oil to send guys to the moon
Wait, what
@@FWDDGS the lower stages of the Saturn V used liquid oxygen and "RP-1" which is basically extra-refined Kerosene
@@drewgehringer7813 Yep, Extra-super-duper-mega-refined kerosene. They got 'really' specific with what they wanted.
Virgin Galactic uses rubber and laughing gas
Starship is powered with farts and oxygen
Tail rotors are counter revolutionary...
I see what you did there
Boooo!
good comment
amazing
Go to gulag
Achktually, the reason why it was SEALs who were tasked with the Bin Laden raid was because at the time, SEALs had responsibility over Afghanistan while Delta had responsibility over Iraq. As a result, it was more practical to have the SEALs do it.
Of course the best part of it was that one of the helicopter pilots when they were doing the practice raids in preparation for the Bin Laden raid supposedly pointed out that they would lose a helicopter. This was because he noticed that the real compound had a stone wall around it while the mock up built for the practice raids had a chain link fence. Lo and behold, when the raid happens for real, they lose a helicopter because the stone wall blocked air flow which contributed to a vortex ring state which when combined with the Stealth Hawks basically being a Black Hawk with extra weight resulted in one of the helicopters dropping like a stone.
So it was actually a black hawk variant? Stealth hawks have that funky tail? Cool as shit my guy
To add on to the AKCHUally, there IS actually a reason for the V-22: It is a Helicopter with the ability to get Fixed Wing Range and Speed.
the bin laden raid was in Pakistan. Not afghanistan
@@hurricaneofpuns3722 My man, do you know where Afghanistan is on a map?
@@XanderTuron You clearly don't since you think the raid on Bin Laden happened in Afghanistan lmao
"The Leonardo is the only aircraft that can turn AN ENTIRE billionaire into a soup-like homogenate in just 30 seconds"
This is praxis
oceangate's titan: hold my beer
Justin's "We'll get to that" will never not be my favorite punchline from this show.
I was a flightline mechanic in the Marines for the V-22, I knew one of the Marines that died in the Morocco crash. And I got a story to share. To start with, you guys mentioned that the rotors fold, but you left out that as an additional space-saving measure for aboard ship the whole wing rotates 90 degrees. When they first deployed the Ospreys to Iraq and Afghanistan, they started having problems with the rotation space getting clogged with sand and other shit, something the engineers at Bell Boeing apparently thought couldn't happen. So they brought two of these aircraft with stuck wings back early; one went to the engineers so they could devise a solution and the other came to my squadron so we could figure out how to actually implement the solution in the field. What they came up with was, basically, there are these little guide stubs for the wing to rotate over, and they manufactured these little Teflon coated copper covers to put over the stubs so the wing could still rotate in spite of all the sand and what-not. They then sent them to us, and we had to jack the whole wing up about six inches so we could slide these things into place, along with cleaning out all the junk that was in there. Took us about four hours altogether; the engineers that were with us said it had taken them three days.
You know I'm getting the impression that trying to design an entirely new type of aircraft and then throwing all the bells and whistles on it like transformer folding shit and mid-air refueling might be a bad idea. I mean, we can do all that shit with helicopters and planes because we built them without those and figured out how that shit worked before we started doing extra shit.
The Osprey meanwhile hasn't learned to walk yet and they're already trying to make it do an act on the double rings. When you increase the number of bells and whistles it's hard to figure out which bell ain't ringing when something ain't right.
@@russetwolf13 Blade fold / wing stow did take quite a bit of work to get right. Aerial refueling, however, has been pretty common place since the late 50s. The only complication on the MV-22 was that the probe needed to be telescoping so the plane could fit below decks on an LHD. A minor inconvenience.
Fun fact: Although these guys made a big deal about that refueling photo, the situation is much worse on most helicopters. On the V-22 the probe is a good 30 feet or more in front of the rotors. On the H-53, the tip of the probe is *inside* of the rotor disk. There's more than one incident where -53s have cut off their own refuel probes (and severely damaged the rotor blades).
@@shannonmcbride2010 I know but the issue is, again, we've never really done any of that shit with tilt rotors so every extra thing is just asking something new to fuck up. And yeah, part of the reason they wanted the tilt rotors was cause midair refueling of helicopters is a shit way to extend range and it fucks up constantly.
I wonder if a rigid rotor helicopter would do it better.. Oh shit they need to do a video on the AH-54 Cheyenne. Fucking impossibly advanced helicopter that got fucked over by bureaucracy. It's a great example of how the Military Industrial Complex is so dysfunctional that it actually repels good shit in favor of people who bribe better.
wing sliders - is what they are called
@@brookelynn6964 they figured out a name for them? I wasn't involved past what I described, I was a Lance Corporal at the time.
Fun fact: The V-22 Ospreys evolved extra large rotors because other aircraft think it's juvenile features are cute, so they want to take care of it.
That Humvee probably started the lift with full load, doors, canopy etc, and the down draft just ripped them all off. 💨
The biggest problem with the Osprey is that everytime one flies over a hot zone, some nerd in orange body armor shoots it down with an RPG.
Something something HL3 confirmed but ONLY ironically.
@@Debilitator47 HL2 confirmed!
or it gets blown up by a flying manta ray
@@Debilitator47 Valve: "we could make half-life three, which takes real work. or, we could make steam, and just rent seek. let's make steam."
@@alexscriabin Well, they did make Alyx, which is apparently a good VR experience. I don't have VR gear (maybe my next computer build), and in any case I would like to see the half life story explored more. I've just played Control, and Disco Elysium, two vastly different games but both with incredibly good writing and stories. I hunger for more of this.
I always relisten/watch this when a Osprey crashes. I'm watching it again today, I watch this one a lot.
3:20 seconds in and we have already gotten to "load bearing jews"
this is gonna be quite the podcast and my body is ready.
I legitimately use this joke as a way to introduce friends to this podcast.
"Once we leave, all the old army shit is gonna get piled at Bagram"
Oooooh this aged WELL!!
There are plenty of nitwits that want America to go back to retrieve that pile of stockpile and junk. If the new Emirate government wants to blow their very limited supply of money on repairing and maintaining it, fine by me.
@@Tenebraeification From what I have read, they are just storing all the abandoned broken whirlybirds.
They want us back as trading partners, and if we don't, they will just work with the Chinese.
Extremely well. Like a fine wine.
"Barge Go Donk, Army To Blame" is the best god damn news headline yet. Well done.
That's how you know its a reliable source of news!
The copter that crashed at the bin laden raid crashed because the walls from the compound caused a vortex ring state. The mock compounds they used for practice had chain link fences instead of walls so this didn’t happen in training. They were warned by a pilot during planning that the solid walls would make them crash but went ahead and did it anyways
Speaking of nuclear pulse propulsion, Project Orion, I bumped into Freeman Dyson several years ago at a local footrace. I was the one nerd that recognized the short grandpa ambling around (or cared enough to actually approach him). He was there for his wife participating in the Hillsborough Steeplechase race. I probably embarrassed myself in how fanboy I got, but I got to shake his hand and got a couple of pictures together. Good times.
"Hey, you're the sphere guy, right? Rockin."
Love his vacuums
@@bobbowie5334 Simply launching traditional chemical rockets have nearly sparked WWIII. At least one included a Norwegian sounding rocket. I would imagine launching a nuclear pulse rocket would (or at least should) include lots of fanfare and global notices. Operating nuclear pulses like that would also be a massive violation of the Outer Space Treaty.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_close_calls
The list of accidents has the same vibe as the terminated superheroes scene from the incredibles
You can copyright deadlock it if you stick a bunch of very much copyrighted content from different places at the end. The different companies' algorithms will fight over who's supposed to get the add revenue forever, so adds won't go up.
Good old Jim Sterling
Thank God for Jim.
Jim fucking Sterling, son.
Jim "Lenin is based" Sterling
I don't know if Jim said that. He probably did.
Gotta admit, I never thought I'd hear about Jim on a WTYP vid, but it pleases me to see two of my interests suddenly dove tail together so nicely 😊
1:09:37 Roz listing off the Osprey's accidents reminds me of Edna Mode's "no capes" spiel in The Incredibles
Hey totally off topic, I just dropped a knife and successfully suppressed my instinct to grab it and avoided cutting my hand, so I’m feeling pretty pro-gamer right now.
That was pretty pogchamp of you
Age will do that for you if you live long enough.
A FALLING KNIFE HAS NO HANDLE.
Love,
A cook
wicked
I dropped a knife recently and didn't even attempt to catch it but the bastard thing still hit my leg on the way down before hitting the floor putting two bloody cuts on my ankle. The pro-gamer thing is to not drop the knife in the first place.
Additionally: The V-22 has also been a financial disaster for Lego. They had to recall hundreds of thousands of already produced sets due to mechanical problems.
Or due to them producing a military vehicle and slapping some "rescue" stickers on it, depending on who you ask.
HEY
@@justinokraski3796 Build a tiltrotor aircraft and then never rescue the man who has fallen into the river in Lego city because the downdraft keeps pushing him underwater!
Damn
Just like those search and rescue Ospreys the UAE wants
that makes it the most accurate licensed model they did.
I mentioned this on twitter but a family friend is one of the engineers who developed this piece of shit. He did something with software and two other things I can’t remember - he had the patents on his wall. Anyways I have a family member who was a Marine and who hated the V-22, was even in one that started a fire on the ground.
I told the engineer this story and he got red in the face mad saying about how that every crash was operator error and there was nothing wrong with the V-22, insinuating the marines weren’t competent enough to use them correctly.
That’s your Boeing helicopters aerospace engineer attitude for ya.
On the other hand, that's also the Marines' ability to handle technology that's more complicated than a stick for ya
@@BlarryOfficial guess that's why they give the submarines to another branch
... let me guess, the next project of this engeneer was desining some small sensor for the 737max ....
Marines should just be able to build their own helicopters from bootstraps and rocks.
NuclearSavety he works for the helicopter division and the last time I saw him (about 5 years ago) something about fly by wire compensating pilots yaw input.
Just watching this; the wildest thing about the Osprey crash in Half-Life: Opposing Force is that Cpl. Adrian Sheppard SURVIVED the crash.
The entire game is a blood loss trip and Shepherd was directly teleported to stasis by the Gman to prevent him from being Ospreyed instantly
People often survive osprey crashes. OFTEN!
@@MrJstorm4 That's something someone who was horrifically murdered by a V-22 Osprey would say.
@@GoredonTheDestroyer no that's what someone says who is sat next to a bunch of people who've been horrifically mangled in an osprey crash says.
@@MrJstorm4 I survived, the idiots sitting next to me just didn't sit correctly.
There is a fun footnote in the history of the "we have to rescue these hostages from Iran" story: the YMC-130H. BASICALLY what they decided was that they had to take off and land from a football(soccer) stadium near where the hostages were or some shit like that. In order to take off and land in the space of a single football(soccer) field, they decided that the best course of action would be to strap a bunch of rocket and missile motors on to a C-130, facing forwards, downwards, and backwards. This way, you could slow the plane down REALLY fast and also take off REALLY fast. It might have worked, except apparently during testing with one of the three prototypes that existed, the flight crew decided to use manual control of the systems one time instead of automatic, and the shock from the second stage of rocket motors facing forwards going off was so aggressive that they thought the plane was on the ground already, so they didn't fire off the downward facing ones to slow the plane's decent down, and managed to drop it straight out of the sky cracking the fucking wings off of it. There's video of this on this very website, just punch YMC-130H in to the search and it'll come up.
That's so fucking stupid
Fun Fact: Even the Lego version sucks since the set had a problem of shredding gears
How the hell do you even get a lego set to "shred gears" like, how many rpms was it even pushing?
@@dr.velious5411 not very high, but the issue was that the shafts driving the rotors had clutches that were too tight, so if the propellers were stuck on something while the motor was running to spin them, all the torque was focused on a set of 3, tiny, 8-tooth gears in the center of the gearbox. tiny, plastic lego gears, as it turns out, are not very sturdy.
I thought the lego version was canceled because only the military uses them and Lego doesn’t make modern military stuff. Only a few made it out in New Zealand and Australia I believe
@@MrJimheeren Yeah, they tried to give it some bright orange parts to pass it off as SAR vehicle or something, but I guess they got cold feet.
What I love most about this episode is that it illustrates how new military equipment decisions are made in the same way that new IT software decisions are made by executives. They just pick the thing that has the most features regardless of how well (or if actually) the thing can do those features. What I'm saying is that the V22 is the ServiceNow of military aircraft.
Something y'all didn't mention was how LOUD these things are. I was stationed on MCAS Futenma which has an Osprey squadron, which means every time one of them flew overhead everyone on the entire base had to stop talking and wait for it to finish what it was doing. Sucked for us but it was even worse for the Okinawans, who justifiably had some people permanently protesting the military bases for regularly operating the most notoriously unsafe aircraft ever over their densely populated island.
Not to mention all the crimes.
@@itsacorporatething Okinawans hated US forces ever since someone ejected a F-100 into a residential district
There's 15s and hh60s there as well. Ive heard v22s and they aren't nearly as loud as fighter jets. And I've heard more about 16s and 15s crashing recently then v22s. I know someone who actually works on the v22s and he says they haven't had any issues.
i live in Niagara Falls, Canada.
There is an airbase in Buffalo, NY which constantly has fighters, bombers, and helicopters of nearly every description flying formations over the falls.
the V-22 is so loud you can feel it thumping in your chest over 5km away.
Amazing to see, but annoying to be near.
@@megaconda07 For the first ~3 years people are really uneasy of Ospreys
i think you all would have a good time covering the R101 airship disaster, a perfect example of british hubris, and it'd offer a nice segway into modern airships which may offer a way to integrate farther apart communities and also offer a less pollutive form of cargo transport
Also the Iron Maiden song slaps
My wife has informed me every other branch of the military refers to the air force as "chair force".
Oof, don't insult my drones like that
Well I mean yeah, but you do all your best work sitting down so it's not inaccurate.
@@russetwolf13 What's the rate of ass boils/carbuncles in the air force compared to the other branches?
@@MonMalthias I dunno I'm not a helicopter.
As someone who served in the part of the air force that didn't get issued enough clothing, much less a chair, yeah that is the correct term for the air force
The ancient menace of the helicopter returns in a new form.
But helicopters primarily kill cops, military and billionaires, so they're praxis
BlarryOfficial they also rescue people in high seas, which is probably the only thing they’re genuinely useful for.
@@tompain9735 that's not their primary purpose though. It's murder.
I genuinely can't wrap my head around you guys saying that the A-10 is good at its job. I mean maybe if you consider that job being friendly firing British troops. Actually, I changed my mind, carry on.
Alright, this ones kind of funny
To be fair I think they said it more as a meme rather then actual enthusiasm for the plane. And you have to admit the A-10 has a very good press agent.
Critical support for the A-10 Thunderbolt II
@@FakeSchrodingersCat I mean yeah, its essentially an abrams with wings (except unlike the abrams it is utterly deficient in all matters except looking pretty and making the funny noise)
@@discipleofdagon8195 That is exactly what I am talking about the A10 is nowhere near as effective and certainly not as durable as an Abrams. But people are convinced it is a flying tank that goes Brrrrrrrrr.
Welcome to “What a Hell of a Way to Problem”
Roz: “Your first helicopter was developed by Igor Sikorsky.”
Me, the one guy in the audience from southern Connecticut: “Woo!”
Me, the other guy from southern CT: *applauds too loudly* (I actually grew up within spitting distance of the Stratford Sikorsky plant.)
TheRealColBosch That’s neat, most of my grandparents as well as my mother grew up around Paradise
Can I be the third guy from southern Connecticut?
Didn't know Connecticut was big enough to have a Southern Connecticut.
@@kjj26k There's only three parts of CT, New London, Hartford, and New Haven
Barge go donk is the best way to report that news story
I just came across your channel through the Newfoundland railway video since I’m a huge train nut, and I literally don’t care what anyone says, the podcast is quite enjoyable! You guys are really fun to listen to! It’s nice to listen to these podcasts on interesting topics that are fun to learn about while listening to the dynamic y’all have as a friend group! Anyways just thought I’d leave this comment to help boost the algorithm and to just say, please keep doing what you do!
"Loadbearing Jews" seems legit
I'm so glad this video doesn't have any... _questionable_ "load-bearing Jews" comments (at least, from what I've seen)
Although, in fairness, many building inspectors won't pass them when used in foundations of buildings over 12 storeys.
Justin in post is like the angel Michael coming down from on high. No preggers, though.
I thought it was Gabriel who performed the Annunciation?
@@dylanchouinard6141 you're right!
This is how you know I'm a recovering christian.
ViolentOrchid It’s ok man. I’m just a major nerd for world religions.
@@ViolentOrchid He could still be Michael, slaying lucifer, but lucifer is labeled like, bad poopy stink engineering and capitalism
One technical curiosity about the Osprey is that because the rotors exceed the ground clearance of the aircraft, the rotor blades come pre-fractured so that if the aircraft has to belly-flop crash land while in fixed wing mode, the blades will fly off after hitting the ground instead of digging into the ground and ripping the engine and wings to shreds. The plane is so broken they had to break it more as a safety feature.
This is actually pretty amazing, to be honest. I mean, you gotta love it...
Sooooo it breaks up in a controlled fashion to not destroy the whole aircraft? You know things like the f15s and other aircraft have the same measures in place to try and preserve the most amount of parts right?
"The plane is so broken they had to break it more as a safety feature" - This is a funny joke, but not a real criticism. A lot of things have engineered failure points. One example, the gas tube in a M16 will burst if the weapon is fired for too long without allowed to cool. It acts as a safety fuse to prevent the barrel from being ruined. If you were allowed to keep firing, it would actually be worse. On the M4 carbine, because of the changes to the barrel it created a weak spot where it was possible to fire the weapon until the heat treatment of the steel was changed - this lead to barrels bursting and a new barrel profile being designed.
On modern automobiles the crumple zone is an engineered failure point, the car will sustain more damage than older cars to protect the occupant.
Still kills the cyclist the car hits just fine 🙂
V-22 Osprey is an anti-imperialist hero who has bravely murdered many marines at the cost of its own life while draining money that could be used for actually useful aircrafts. I salute you, brave hero.
Amen
Lol
Next step: Murdering civilian billionaires.
@@johannageisel5390 the work of a hero is never over.
More effective than every ML party in America combined
Funny you should suggest flying with a hummvee underneath and using it as a wrecking ball: that is exactly what happened in an Arma 3 multiclan game I played in. Granted, it was on accident, and the Cobra helicopter crew did not survive the hummvee colliding with them, but...
Ahh, Arma
what i love about this podcast is that this episode’s focus isnt necessarily a subject i would go out of my way to learn about, but that i’m going to enjoy anyway because you’re all just good at this. thank you for all The Content
(also in the next the god damn news segment can you cover ms flight sim 2020 and how people are flying over groverhaus because the screenshots of perfectly rendered groverhaus compared to the washington monument and buckingham palace looking like weird office blocks and also the eldritch horror terrain... well i mean, you absolutely love to see it)
Can I second the request for this, because the MS Flight Simulator thing sounds hilarious.
This one came out quickly, thank you for delivering this just at the end of a tough week😀
Justin: I knew this was gonna devolve into train chat eventually.
Viewers: Great call Nostradamus.
Roztradamus
When I was in Afghanistan, there was always a run on Rip Its in the DFAC because us USAF guys would just fill our coolers with Rip Its for sitting on the taxi waiting for a flight to leave 30 minutes late.
Then the Marines found out which DFAC had the Rip Its and would wait until a lull in DFAC traffic and come raid them as well.
My favorite thing I read about the Osprey is that despite them having them in the Marine 1 livery, the US President is not allowed to fly on one due to how often they crash
Tell our current president that and he'll stubbornly demand to fly in one, huge problem solved.
Not true. The reason HMX-1 doesn't use the V-22 for presidential transport is that it's too big to land on the south lawn of the White House. It actually has one of the best safety records in Marine aviation
@@shannonmcbride2010 cool story
pity
Someone should have told Kobe
Helicopters being inherently fascist puts a whole new and hilarious light on the classic transphobic "identifying as an attack helicopter" meme.
What goes around
Spins really fast
As long as your not a SELF ID adovcate and not the steelman version, then the attack Helicopter if used incorrectly like calling all trans people the attack Helicopter would be a mischaracterization of trans people.
Unless your one of those nose pierced blue haired AFABs college kids then the Attack helicopter accurately describes the absurdity of your ideology
Clearly we need to install a counter howitzer to offset the physics kerfuffle caused by the first howitzer, which instead of knocking it out of the sky, will just implode it.
Push plate "rockets" are the best, most Doctor Strangelove-ass thing ever.
35:40
...er, I'm pretty sure the inciting incident for the development of the V-22 wasn't "brownout is bad", but rather "we need something that can operate like a helicopter but has a lot more range, because refueling helicopters in brownout conditions because they lack the range to make the whole trip in one go is really dangerous". The entire philosophy behind the V-22 is "helicopter but faster and with a lot more range", which it definitely nails. Even carry weight isn't really the point: it's range and speed. Super-heavy lift helicopters (or even just heavy lift helicopters) specialize in carrying large payloads, but they do this by sacrificing range and speed.
Precisely this; it wasn't in response to the failure of Eagle Claw, but to the cancellation of Credible Sport, which itself was the response to Eagle Claw's failure. The helicopters and the complex transfer where brownout happened was only required because the only viable landing spot was a football field, and a C-130 cannot (normally) land in such a space. The V-22, while it has had issues, has demonstrated it would have been able to fill this role quite well.
@@iskierka8399 Yeah this is true, however I wonder how much the military can depend on such a thing when doing *long range combat insertion*, which is the full original justification right? To put it simply if Bin Laden lived a few hundred miles inlands with similar set up, will the SEALs jump in with this or choose to air refuel black hawks? For what I see on this website people praise its ability mostly in logistics, and I really wonder if Bell would come up with V-280 if V-22 can fill the combat insertion role well.
I am suddenly more concerned about the formations of these that I see flying over my neighborhood.
I strongly suggest you get "US Army vehicule falling out of the sky" insurance
Government surveillance is bad. Government surveillance that falls out of the sky and crushes your house is worse.
20:35
Hey, autogyros are awesome aircraft. Although they can't take off vertically, they can land vertically, and they can safely land vertically even in the event of an engine failure. Their top rotor is like a parachute that is always deployed and will safely bring the aircraft back to the ground.
How the hell is Liam's mic quality diifferent in every goddamn episode?
years of practice bby
"Helicopters are fascists!" Well, you can't spell "helicopter" without "cop"
Helikkkopter
I don't quite see the inherent connection between "cop" and "fascist"
I don't quite see the inherent connection between "cop" and "fascist"
@@thewingedserpent5823 think harder
@@thewingedserpent5823become an Olympic vaulter like the rest of us then talk
My theory: the haters commenting are _really_ salty you guys havent done a part 2 to the Tacoma Narrows Bridge episode
19:50 Orion project, that was the name of the nuclear pulse engine project.
The best proposed nuclear project however was the Qattara Depression Project. The idea was to nuke a canal from the Mediterranean sea to the Quattara depression in northern Africa to create an artificial inlet sea.
Project Plowshare is still my favorite. Is your sandy hell not very arable? Just nuke it.
lmao yeah its hilarious because all that would do is turn dozens of oaises into salty unusable soil
The thing about project Orion was it wasn't proposed in the 50s, but the late 60s when they totally did understand nuclear fallout. They did some extremely dodgy math to show that this massive thing wouldn't splatter deadly fallout downwind of its launch site. Freeman Dyson was one of those guys who had a lot of ideas. Many of them were brilliant, others... not so much.
Don't forget about the plan to widen the panama canal... by just nuking central america in half.
@@ericjamieson Orion would probably be the least fallout-problematic of the civilian nuclear bomb applications projects, except maybe for Project PACER and Gnome (detonate nuclear weapons in big, water-filled underground cavities to make steam to turn turbines).
If it wasn't for that monitized video (I was recently recommended it) i wouldn't have discovered this amazing podcast! This is the first, and only podcast I listen too! Ive been binge watching every episode since!!!!!
I’ve watched a couple of episodes out of sequence, so during the descriptions of this thing’s various failure modes, I couldn’t help but picture an old magazine ad: V-22 OSPREY REDUCES A WHOLE MARINE TO SOUP-LIKE CONSISTENCY IN UNDER 30 SECONDS.
I always love episodes that aren't like, a specific event but a general concept or piece of equipment
shout out to the boys in my sixth-grade class who kept trying to do their aviation projects on this thing
Opening of the podcast: "Here's the real-life scenario that prompted construction of the osprey."
39:30: "The osprey was built for a scenario which doesn't exist."
Fine work.
Yeah cause the Osprey as built is even worse for the kind of situation that happened in three Iranian operation. So while the incident in Iran prompted the Osprey construction, the scenario in which it was envisaged to be operating has not existed.
Oh good, the podcast's favourite mode of transportation (airplanes) finally crossed with Kobe Bryant's favourite mode of transportation (helicopters). What could possibly go wrong
BlarryOfficial the podcasts favourite mode of transportation is trains tho
@@deeznoots6241 No, it's clearly cars.
Grog hyperloops
Grog Cars on Bridges!
The podcasts favorite mode of transport is cars in tunnels
que in LazerPig
And the horses continue to be fed to machinery.
I'm totally into that movie. Expandables 17: Wrecking Ball. A humvee, ropeded to an (burning) Osprey flown by Stallone, ramming through a wall of a terrorist hideout, with Chuck Norris strapped to the front deflecting bullets away with his bare hands, while Arnie is chewing explosives and spit-killing snipers, and Van Damme hanging below the vehicle split-kicking sharks with lasers on their heads, R.D. Anderson repairing the Osprey's rotors with a bit of string and a ball point pen, and Christopher Walken sitting shotgun, just staring menacingly while eating an orange. 'murika, F*** yeah!
Please do not ever change your podcast, you're the fuel oil to my mental NH4NO3.
God I fucking wish the Expendables was half as awesome as that description. Also I'm pretty sure there's a Furry Inflation Fetish porn parody out there somewhere called The Expandables. I feel it in my heart, I know it is true.
@@russetwolf13 thanks for the Idea bro
Does having haters mean that you are a big podcast now?
In the Netherlands especially
Drive by dislikes is the ultimate indicator of making it big.
They've always have had haters...
Justin opened a can of worms when he made a video about Elon Musk's "Loop". Tons of weird nerds stormed the channel and it was glorious!
@@r2dezki The cult of Elon is both hilarious and scary.
I was listening to this at work and laughed so hard at "Eight Loko" that I fell down laughing off the cook line.
the 38 dislikes are from marines
The osprey is what happens when we let the engineers play Halo before design review
Huh. It is basically a knockoff Pelican, even down to the seabird name.
@@joshuahadams the Pelican and a lot of other dropship designs are all inspired by the Osprey, since, you know, the Osprey is a program from the 80s and Halo came out in 2001...
Very surprised this isn’t longer considering this is the most chaotic lineup of a WTYP yet
Wow listening to this around the 41:20 - 42:00 mark on August 20, 2021 is friggin EERIE. I mean, almost exactly 1 year earlier, you guys nailed it.
Oh god the Discworld joke about the inventor trying to make an internal combustion engine where the feed mechanism put one too many pellets of gunpowder into the combustion chamber is based on a real thing…
There was a mythbusters episode where they tried to make a gunpowder internal combustion engine work
40:00 Okay, several things to unpack here. Firstly, the F-35 fulfills a role that a LOT of people need fulfilled, which is why so many nations signed on to be part of the program and why they all want F-35s of their own. What role does the F-35 serve? Two, maybe three: air superiority, attacking important ground targets (mainly enemy air defenses, but others as well), and using its excellent sensor suite to designate/find enemy targets for other assets (like surface-to-surface missiles, cruise missiles, or air-to-ground missiles from other aircraft). The F-35 is a fifth generation fighter, and one of the only ones to have reached mass production (there's the F-22, the Chinese J-20, and the Russian PAK-FA which hasn't really entered mass production and is so expensive that Russia only plans to make a handful of them, period--and then there's the F-35. And since the F-22 and J-20 are banned from export to other countries, the F-35 will be the very first fifth-generation fighter the vast majority of the world will be able to get). Within those roles, you have bonus capabilities: the F-35C is designed to operate off of a catapult-capable carrier, which is obviously very important for the US Navy, and the F-35B can take off and land vertically, meaning that it is able to operate from catapult-less carriers (which is obviously very important to the US Navy's smaller carriers as well as everyone else's carriers--which lack catapults) as well as operate from shorter airfields or even quickly-constructed short airfields made after an amphibious operation or from places where shorter runways are available but longer ones are not.
And the chief thing about the F-35 that makes it stand out so much from previous, fourth-generation aircraft is stealth. Stealth is not just being literally undetectable (though that's a very nice capability to have)--it's about making it harder to detect you, harder to track you, harder to attack you, and harder to hit you. When modern air defenses consist of very deadly surface to air missiles backed by capable radar systems, good stealth is not merely about being the apex predator of the skies, it's more like the price of entry. Before stealth, we'd basically throw Wild Weasels at the problem--squadrons assigned the task of flying into enemy air defenses and then shooting home-on-radiation missiles at the radars that were tracking them to shoot missiles at them. Obviously, that is incredibly dangerous and not as viable as it used to be, thanks to evolving tactics and technology for countering home-on-radiation missiles.
Of course, there are other major advances--things like networked sensor feeds and communications, allowing for one fighter to fire a missile using another fighter's sensor data, or for a stealth fighter to feed sensor data directly to, say, a warship with a slew of big surface-to-surface missiles ready for targeting data.
And honestly, the carrier capability is really a bigger deal than you'd think. Right now, catapult-less carriers are stuck with old Harrier jets, which are slow, difficult to land vertically, have a very limited payload capacity, and limited range. The F-35B and C are basically the badly-needed replacement for those Harriers, representing a MASSIVE leap in capability that has been a long time coming.
Now, it's absolutely fair to say that the F-35 program has been poorly run/managed for much of its development time. It could have been and absolutely should have been done better. But no one who really understands the subject of what the F-35 is meant for, why it's needed, and why it was never cancelled would say that it's an answer to a nonexistent problem, or that its role is purely hypothetical. In truth, it's opposite: it's THE answer to a very real, very clear problem, and its role already exists and has been sitting without a proper fighter to fill it in the modern age for too long already.
And to answer your ultimate question: what exactly do you need a modern, multirole, carrier-capable stealth fighter for if war with China is inconceivable due to globalization and Russia's only aircraft carrier is shit? Simple: war has changed. It's not like in WW2, where nations involved are fighting to the finish with all that they have. Rather, we can expect lots of posturing, skirmishes, and short "wars" that are basically a single battle before a diplomatic resolution is reached (but that resolution will partially depend on the outcome of that battle). If China's J-20 is not countered by a fifth-generation stealth fighter, then China can basically make a territorial claim and dare anyone to say otherwise. China is currently building its own carrier force, which will soon surpass Russia's (if it hasn't already) and quickly eclipse it entirely after that. And since any conflict with China is likely to involve territorial disputes in the western Pacific, nations like Japan and the US will need a fifth generation stealth fighter that can operate from carriers or more than the few air force bases with long enough runways to sustain them (and since the F-22 has such limited range, that limits their ability to operate substantially). The posturing I mentioned earlier plays into it as well: if China has its own stealth fighters but knows that Japan has none and the US's hundred-ish Raptors haven't been flown halfway around the world to be stationed in Japan, its leaders will know that it can make aggressive moves with relative impunity. (Also, aircraft carriers are not merely for defeating other aircraft carriers. Carriers are a mobile, self-contained air force--so anywhere you need air operations, you bring a carrier or several, and you aren't just plain fucked if there isn't an adequate air base close enough to where you need to operate.)
That, and economic interdependency between the US and China has been steadily decreasing for years. Maybe it won't be an issue five years from now, but ten, fifteen? It very well could be. And since developing a fifth-generation fighter is NOT a quick endeavor, you need to tackle these problems well ahead of time, because by the time you need them, if you don't have them already, it's far, far too late.
Also nations go to war with major trade partners all the time. All of economist were sure world war 1 would be over in a few months because they would run out of money. They were half right everyone did run out of money but they didn't stop fighting
Grover, is that you?
amazed to learn that the autogyro was a real thing and not something hayo miyazaki made up
I wonder who will get pinned this time around, given the circus that was last episode's comments.
Starting my fake account now so I can convince them to pin me in 2 years
1:18:34 The V-22 is a Bell Boeing thing and the AW609 is a Bell Leonardo thing so that's probably not the case.
1:19:59 Good luck landing a Greyhound on a Marine LHD. Everything I find says the Osprey has twice the internal load capacity of the Greyhound and can carry equivalent loads for equivalent ranges when in *STOL* (plane) mode. The closest thing I found to a source supporting your claim is that an Osprey can sling load 10,000lb for 50nmi while wholly in *VTOL* (helicopter) mode, which is something you'd need to do for items too bulky for the cargo hold, something the Greyhound can't do at all.
53:10
If an aircraft carrier has to shoot at small boats full of explosives, then its entire escort group has already failed miserably. Plus, you know, it also has the ability to launch fighters and helicopters to attack those targets FOR it. Either way, that just isn't its role. It'd be like putting cannons on a nuclear submarine--it'd serve no real purpose that isn't far better fulfilled by other types of ships, and it'd compromise its ability to do what it's actually really good at.
Whoa whoa whoa, are you saying you DON'T want a nuclear Surcouf?
"Damn you Igor Sikorsky and all your infernal wingless flying machines!"
Update: there have been 4 osprey crashes since this episode was released, all fatal
Oh, next week finally the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, at last this time. Can't wait for it, guys! Looking forward to it.
1:07:36 They said it was because of the walls surrounding the compound. They said the air was pushed down but was deflected up into that donut shape by the walls.
I buy it but that’s an odd oversight when training for months they trained. I’d think it would be taught in helicopter flying school that helicopters aren’t cats and cannot sit in open boxes.
I like that the first helicopter had "D4D" written on the side: its the dad-pter.
I read all the popular mechanics issues on this damn plane and thinking it was the coolest, then I started learning about all the deaths. It took me so long to realize the only reason they kept this thing going was the money.
My mummy remembers El Salvador and to a certain extent so do I remember the helicopters... *hums suicide is painless*
I feel like the B-25 that crashed into the Empire State Building would be a good episode
To be clear, speaking from current/recent experience, we absolutely still use humvee’s. Especially the ones that have what is essentially tarps for doors.
another fun thing about this thing is that Lego made a set based on it that was so poorly designed that it would literally break the pieces from regular use.
1:16:50 The problem with a 6-minute leeway for your train to be late is subway trains often run more frequently than that. If you're so late that you're arriving when the train *behind you* is supposed to get there, You Are Not On Time.
Ultimately, the V-22 is a fairly revolutionary design, accomplishing what had been attempted before but never done: a practical tilt-rotor/tilt-wing aircraft. While it has had some accidents and major teething problems, that's simply a given whenever you're pushing the envelope with a new kind of design, but the payoff is usually worth it. Most notably, the V-22 can do several important things that no other aircraft can, and costs less than half as much to operate per hour as the CH-53 heavy lift helicopter that it has been compared to.
Like many Spaniards, Juan de la Cierva y Codorníu, 1st Count of la Cierva, died in 1936. However, he actually died in an aviation accident in Croydon. Also he supported Franco.
"Well, what if we had this scenario that doesn't exist, and they'll be like let's build something around that" this was a succinct description of most "tech" start-ups. I thought Nate and Alice were the ones from TF, not you :O
You're leaving out that this was in competition with the Harrier in the race for VTOL aircraft. Jet VTOL is very fuel consuming and range quite short. I saw (and heard, dammit) the prototype of V22 for years at NASA Ames in Mountain View, CA. Physicists and engineers were actually excited (and worried) about it because of that mechanical advantage and cargo carrying capacity due to advances in the rotor/propellers and lift wing. Of course this is before rotating wing and armor and all the other BS added on. They never imagined it as a war aircraft but sweetly, if naively, as a way to get supplies to remote villages and more of a Red Cross vehicle. Enthusiasm and worry was intermixed because of the numerous engineering contradictions, but remember, these were the Apollo guys. Then, as some things were getting worked out the program was cut off from general science access and contribution. We still had to endure uncounted hours of the thing hovering and testing near our buildings, no conversations outside possible, much worse than the U2s taking off because it went on and on for hours.
Even though it has many challenges, I wonder what could have been accomplished if the project hadn't been closed off and then a bunch of stuff it was never designed for added on.
Godammit. That episode had zero voices piled on top of each other, shouting and laughing at the same time, and I'm SO FKN MAD RIGHT NOW. 😉 😂
V-22's answer to the problems they had at Desert One is in the speed and range, not anything to do with solving brownout (which sounds like a "find the soft spots in the armor" kind of task). If they had V-22s for Eagle Claw, they wouldn't have had to build a fricken giant fuel base in the middle of the desert in the first place.
Spot on though about helicopters being fascist.
Helicopter at 37:00 also looks like Buzz Lightyear’s wings when they are fully extended. 😂😂😂 like exactly like them.
those things are ALWAYS flying around Oceanside. Over my house especially, they're loud as shit. I live right next to camp pendleton which looks a lot like the picture with the gutted humvee, but with the 5 freeway in front
DaVinci's model helicopter didn't survive, suffering the same fate as all 79-cent balsa wood glider models.
Yall should do an episode on the podcast's disastrous comment section
That leads into the nature of the RUclips algorithm and how it effects the world and the lively hoods of content creators
We got a The Fucking News segment and that's all we deserve
New technology ... When the American Sabre pilots were trained at Nellis, where the casualty rate of their training was so high, they were told, "If you ever see the flag at full staff, take a picture". At New River A.S. helicopters are going down all the time during normal training operations. Helicopters are inherently unsafe.
F86 Sabers 9,800 were manufactured. . There were well over 2,000 Class A flight mishaps in a 22-year period, more than half of which involved a destroyed aircraft. 573 fatalities.
I don't know if you take topic suggestions but I would really like to hear a podcast about the Sewol ferry, the Doña Paz or the DC-10 (especially its cargo door problem)
Anyway I only found your podcast a few days ago and I love it. So thank you for providing me with entertainment (and a distraction from studying).
43:05 I'm not a military guy but I've worked alongside Marines and ex-marines (UK) and yes this statement is 100% the reason to keep them about.
That is because we have done that before when we sailed a big boat into the middle of a harbor and blew it up.