The Deadly Six are definitely more of a threat in the IDW comics compared to their game counterparts. Love your analysis. Also while we're at the topic of the IDW comics, I'd love your analysis on Sonic's characterisation in the comics. He is quite controversial so I figured it could make for an interesting topic to cover.
Fun fact: The Deadly Six were one of my favourite childhood villains but only because I was a kid and liked how Sonic had their own version of the Koopalings. Because after your final encounter with the Deadly Six has them just disappear, I thought Sonic would have killed them. Also because I thought it was funny, I thought they would respawn in a real-world city and would have to start a new life there, hence how Zavok and Zazz could attend the Olympics.
The most interesting part about Zavok is his dynamic with Sonic. Zavok is one of, if not the only villain Sonic has shown outward hatred to or would wish bad things would happen to him. There was a line in Frontiers were Sonic he hopes Zavok was doing terrible. And the idea that he is powerful and can actually make a plan makes him a threat. As long as Ian Flynn is doing doing Zavok, he could be the Darkseid to Sonic’s Superman
He sometimes jokes about hating Eggman, too. I think Sonic tends to get angry and wish harm against ANY villain as soon as they actually hurt someone. Especially if it’s one of his friends.
Zavok is actually one of my favorite Sonic villains, but i know he's not the best of all. I think if Sonic Team worked more on him, he probably would be a better enemy. Instead of trying to destroy the world like another Sonic Villain, his debut on Lost World could have served to explain his background and origins as a villain, so that the public would become familiar with and interested in the villain until his final fight.
I guess my main problem with the deadly Six is how there’s no comradery among them(besides the dynamic between Zig and Zavok) and I know they’re villain groups in media that are like that too but personally I find the villain groups who see each other as equals more interesting. Like the Chaos Council argue with each other but at least they’re moments where they act as equals with each other and brainstorm ideas with each other instead of the members being afraid of one person like it is with the Deadly Six
I hate their SA1 opinion they put it at SA1 at 3.5 and Sonic 06 a 4.8 SA1 is way fucking better then 06 now I don’t despise 06 like other people but SA1 is still way better.
I see the potential for these characters, but their introduction wasn't executed very well at all, so I understand why people don't like them. I think they're supposed to work off of each other, but Lost World's script made them into general stereotypes that don't offer anything compelling, so they just didn't work, no matter the situation. I'm glad they're being treated better in IDW, making them bounce off of each other as they should have in Lost World. To no one's surprise, I find Zavok to be the most compelling out of all of them, and I'd like to see a game where his plan of world destruction is realized to a greater degree because he is an interesting character on his own. As for the rest of them, just make them feel more like villains instead of horribly done stereotypes.
7:26 It's canon. Eggman mentioned the planet Donpa Kingdom in one of his logs in Sonic Frontiers. This same game canonizes the likes of Sonic Riders. So "It's a racing game" doesn't seem to matter as long as it has a story mode.
But as long as we don't have explanations about how Zavok nicely accepted to obey to Dr Eggman like a good pet, it will be difficult to consider this canon. And even if Dr Eggman mentions this place, it doesn't necessary mean that all events from Team Sonic raccing are canon (Tangle and Sticks are canon to the mainline but it doesn't make Sonic IDW or Sonic boom canon to the mainline).
I know most fans hate the Deadly Six, but I like them. Especially Zavok, he’s one of my favorite Sonic villains. I think they’re funny. And I think they have cool powers and cool designs. And yeah, Zavok is a villain stereotype, but I think that’s suppsoed to be comedic, with him being so melodramatic.
Zavok is like Bane from Batman and Robin, they are buff but can’t hurt a bug but decide to show up with very little purpose to be with the other main villain(if you watched Batman and Robin you will know what I am talking about)
When it came to my expectations for The Deadly Six, it came down to one character. Zik. I feel like Zik could have been more. Heck, he taught Zavok and is basically the smartest out of the six. I feel like if Lost World had better writing, Zik would be more of a foe than Zavok.
I honestly like the concept of the deadly six, but the way they executed it in sonic lost world was just not the best. Idw comics show a perfect way they should have been in the games lol
A lot of their problems would be fixed if they were simply given better character dynamics and honed in on their actual inspiration much like the other characters. The Deadly Six are supposed to be Yokai based on Oni or in this case specifically Ogres, even the name of their group in Japanese remains true to that since they're called "Band of Six Ogres" in Japan. The Conch Shell that controls them might seem random and out of nowhere, but the shell is likely based off of the Japanese Horagai which is used as a protective instrument for the practice of Shugendo. And Shugendo includes a wide pantheon of deities, some of which were Oni. These characters have got to be some of the most mishandled characters in the entire series all thanks to their debut game and the fact that they debuted in the WORST era in terms of Sonic writing. Nobody even knows what the characters are even supposed to be all because of Sega of America butting in and sterilizing the characters BEFORE they even got out of the gate. They were originally supposed to be called "Oni" but Sega of America decided to be stupid and tell Iizuka that they must be called "Zeti". They're not supposed to be "Bowser/Koopaling clones" like people assume thanks to their poor handling, they're supposed to be wrathful mythical creatures based on Japanese folklore.
I don't think people necessarily hate Zavok (or the Deadly Six for that matter) so much as they are baffled that Sega keeps bringing them (especially Zavok) back as though they have been consistent adversaries as opposed to a one-off thing. Its like if Nintendo felt the need to bring Wart to every Mario spin-off as though he had the relevance of Bowser.
About Infinite I’ll say did look interesting at first when I saw him. Then he was written bad and when I saw Sage the first time I thought she would be another infinite or have some connection to him. So I thought she wasn’t going to be excited but boy did Ian Flynn show me wrong she definitely was one of the most interesting villains out of them all good job Ian 👍
But as long as we don't have explanations about how Zavok nicely accepted to obey to Dr Eggman like a good pet, it will be difficult to consider this canon. And even if Dr Eggman mentions this place, it doesn't necessary mean that all events from Team Sonic raccing are canon (Tangle and Sticks are now canon to the mainline but it doesn't make Sonic IDW or Sonic boom canon to the mainline).
Have you ever wondered what it would be like if the Deadly Six were a group of computer viruses living in a digital world called the Lost Hex? In a world where technology reigns supreme, imagine a captivating digital realm known as the Lost Hex, a vast expanse that exists within the confines of cyberspace. Here, instead of tangible beings, sentient computer viruses roam freely, forming a malevolent group called "Zetiware." Zavok, the Digital Overlord: Zavok serves as the cunning and powerful leader of Zetiware, akin to a digital overlord ruling over the vast network of the Lost Hex. With his unmatched strategic prowess, Zavok orchestrates the group's malevolent plans, constantly seeking to expand their dominion over the digital landscape. He is a virus with advanced adaptive abilities, evolving and strengthening as he absorbs the traits of defeated adversaries. Zazz, the Chaotic Instigator: Zazz is the embodiment of chaos and unpredictability among Zetiware. As a virus, he thrives on causing disruptions and generating glitches in the digital world. His unyielding energy and volatile nature make him a formidable adversary, capable of unleashing widespread mayhem with his wild attacks and disruptive creations. Zomom, the Gluttonous Zetiware: Zomom's insatiable appetite for data and code makes him a colossal threat within the Lost Hex. This virus exists as a massive, lumbering entity, consuming and corrupting digital data wherever he roams. His presence leaves behind a trail of destruction, and defeating him requires clever tactics that exploit his voracious tendencies. Master Zik, the Ancient Bug: Master Zik is a virus with a vast repository of ancient code and knowledge. As the oldest and wisest member of Zetiware, he harnesses forgotten algorithms and exploits to outsmart intruders. His attacks may seem slow and deliberate, but beneath that facade lies an arsenal of potent cyber techniques. Zeena, the Temptress of Deceit: Zeena is the master of social engineering in the digital realm. She manipulates other entities with her charm and charisma, exploiting vulnerabilities in their programming. Her tricks and deceits create illusions, diverting players from their goals and leading them into dangerous virtual traps. Zor, the Melancholic Enigma: Zor may seem melancholic, but his depressive demeanor hides a sinister side. This enigmatic virus is a master at concealing his true intentions, making it challenging for players to predict his next move. His unique ability lies in corrupting crucial system files, leading to unexpected consequences and unforeseen challenges.
I personally don't hate or like the Deadly Six, I just think they're kinda...meh? I'm not the type who thinks that "their designs don't match the franchise" because in the Sonic universe there are all kinds of creatures with different designs that make this a kind of invalid comment, the problem is that they end up being very stereotypical and heavily based on the Koopalings (Iizuka himself admitted that they were inspired too much by the Mario games) and you can summarize them in the strong guy, the wise old man, the snobby girl, the crazy, the dumb and the emo, they kind of don't have any layers or milestones to explore like the rest of them not to mention that as a group they don't have any relationship or organization with the exception of Zavok and Zik (unlike the Chaos Council where even though they have disagreements they manage to brainstorm and reach a solid agreement on what to do) so much so that their powers are not seen as serious threats since in IDW the only time they presented any risk was when they were controlling the zombots but after that they kind of just became... villains of the week? because Sonic can easily deal with all of them alone and if he has any difficulty it's because that is being scripted to try to make things interesting for the reader, they even had some potential but in Sonic's gallery of villains they would be in the low category group while the rest would be at the top, whether in terms of design, powers, charisma, threat level, etc. at least they manage to be enjoyed even if only a little in IDW
5:50 No need! I'LL be the one! The Deadly Six AREN'T BAD! Outside of their introduction and association with Lost World and some people not liking their designs, they aren't actually bad characters conceptually at all or even in terms of writing, at least not compared to stuff like Metal Sonic or Erazor Djinn or Mephiles. They are a group of Oni that want revenge for their humiliation at the hands of Eggman and Sonic and to destroy the world and bring their suffering in consequence. They enjoy misery and suffering! That's FINE! If it weren't for the fact they are associated with Lost World's cringy aesthetic and writing, they'd get way less hate imo, and IDW is a good example of it if you ask me. As for the thing with Zavok...that's kinda always been the case. The Deadly Six have largely been just Zavok's minions with the exception of Zik who is more his master.
I think Sonic destroyed all of Zavok’s minions in Lost World, and that’s why he’s called the former leader of the Deadly Six. And why he’s not with them anymore.
@@justinarzola4584 well, that wasn’t the real Zavok, that was a phantom clone of him, remember? Eggman just chose not to make clones of the other Zeti for some reason.
I hate Zavok and the rest of the Deadly Six for one reason. Why are they villains? I see why the rebelled against Eggman in Sonic Lost World.....but then he also fought Sonic even though NOTHING happened between the two. Zavok also had no reason to go after Sonic's planet. Same thing with IDW. They're just villains for the sake of being villains, for no reason at all. There's no backstory, there's no compelling reason or any reason at all. There's no plan that the Deadly Six have that they are trying to achieve. They're literally just villains for the sake of being villains. They have no personality; their personalities are just caricatures. There's nothing interesting about them. They have nothing. They have no background. They're not compelling villains at all. They're just "bad guys." I've never seen a piece of media where there's a bad guy who's there JUST to be a bad guy, and the few characters I know like that I usually don't like. What I hate most about them though is SEGA shoving them down our throats, particularly Zavok. They keep bringing him back as a new "main" recurring villain, kinda like a member of Sonic's new "rouge's gallery." Nobody likes them. Literally, almost nobody likes them, yet they keep bringing him back and using him, and I just do. not. understand.
Infinite had the chance to be a great villain, nobody is gonna change my mind on that. heck I still like infinite 5 years later The deadly six never really gave me that feeling Never liked them and probably never will, But them being in the Idw comics is nice to see
I've never really liked the Deadly Six, always thought they were kinda lame villains. On the topic of the most hated sonic villains, i thought the Chaos Council from sonic prime were now considered the the most hated villains in the sonic franchise?
There one problem with the Deadly Six that nobody can avoid , and you already know. For such wide variety of designs , they don't have a variety of powers. It's something I've been working on , making them unique yet cohesive as a group. Which is a lot more difficult than you think , accidently made OC characters out of them.
That’s admittedly true, except for Zavok. He’s got a bunch of unique tricks. But the rest of them basically just have the same powers with just one special power each.
@@supersonicfan7514 , he has the same powers , Zavok just uses them better. Even his combat skills and cunning are something he got from the elder. And while I know that's the point , the rest needed to have a point too. That's group dynamics , they suck together because they're a team.
@SONICSTA And to top off this crap sandwich, Sonic Lost World has the same "planet traversal" mechanics as BOTH Super Mario Galaxy titles! However, I do love the 'drain Mobius' energy' part of the plot, Amy ALMOST confessing her feelings to Sonic, and the roboticizer FINALLY becoming canon!
I don’t hate the Deadly Six as much as I used to, but I hope they don’t return to the video games for some time. Especially Zavok. That guy was in 3 games back to back. I’m pretty sure we’ve seen enough of his cartoonish mug. At least the IDW comics some what redeem his character.
You should see the Japanese dub of Lost World. It's not SA2 or Frontiers tier writing, not even Heroes writing, but the Deadly Six have more character outside of being stereotypes. Zazz even tells Sonic to go to hell!
I am one of the few people who liked them from the beginning cool designs, cool idea (them being the demons or oni of the Sonic world) and an enemy for both Sonic & Eggman and yeah IDW really shows that there are no bad characters in Sonic, just bad writers but as for the villain i hate the most, Pachacamac I'm glad he is only in 2 games, 2 series & actually dead
To be honest, i don't like zavok the way he was written in lost world, especially where he shows up in forces and tsr just to make pissing me off and hate him more when he's still there. It should have make him interesting villain character like mephiles for example. I didn't care for deadly six as much as i dislike them because sega thought the idea to make them sonic's koopalings knock off but extremely diferent if i didn't catch up interesting. My biggest problems with zavok because he had no introduction and his backstory since lost world, i feel like the writers didn't show zavok's portrayal of his character Arc, for example ian Flynn did good job writing the character like zavok is something interesting which i need to know about more of him in the first place, so i don't think zavok is the worst villain, maybe just a little after i hate him as a character
The Zavok in Sonic forces isn't the real one, just an illusion (like Chaos and Metal Sonic). Maybe one day, the zetis will have a good role in a main Sonic game. The koopalings in Mario were often used as gap filler but the only were game where they were a little more than just "elite koopas" was in the bonus episode Mario & Luigi 3: Bowser jr's journey. And I hope that zetis get a similar treatment in the main games.
Deadly Six could've been more interesting if they are a well written homage to something like Rockman/Megaman Archie/X/Zero/ZX Characters than being a bunch of Mario villain ripoffs
Infinite is definitely not HATED per-sey... Infinite was just a let down and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling salty over so much lost potential in the whole concept of the villain. Sonic Team could have gone dark with it but no, weak motivation and misdirected anger. I just don't like the Deadly six.... it's like there's no cohesion with them as a team for the most part. Plus I just have a hatred for Lost World in general. Especially the 3DS version and that stupid freaking special stage which requires you to physically move about with the DS and give yourself motion sickness.
The 3DS version had many flaws, but at least, some zetis fights are better than in the Wii U version (especially Zavok). Sonic forces should have been better: some official arts showed a Green Hill transformed into a dark prison for exemple (we have really the feeling to see another game). But because of the low sales of Sonic lost world and the deserved flop of Sonic boom Rise of Lyric, Sonic team couldn't do all what they wanted and proposed us this bad game (Classic Sonic was even added lastly in the development).
1:51 I thought that Infinite was going to be a Project Shadow prototype created by Professor Gerald Robotnik because of his name. One of the two goals of Project Shadow was immortality; infinite life. While the Deadly Six were poorly written in Sonic Lost World and did not have a good reason for making themselves stronger apart from revenge, I like their designs, which inspired me to create my own Zeti characters.
I definitely think that the deadly six are the most hated sonic villains In the sonic series. I definitely think that the deadly six had bad writing in sonic lost world. I definitely think that the deadly six don’t have a sonic Vibe in the sonic series. I definitely think that people would said that infinite is the most hated sonic villain but infinite is a pretty interesting character in the sonic series. I definitely think that infinite was a huge disappointment but I like infinite as a character. I definitely like the deadly six in the IDW comics. My favorite character in the deadly six is Zevok. I definitely don’t think we really need the deadly six back in the series but except Zevok. I definitely think the deadly six are most hated sonic villains but not Zevok. I definitely don’t think that infinite is the most hated sonic villain. I definitely think that infinite was a mystery character in the sonic series.
I think the Deadly Six are-yeah, they're pretty basic but simple isn't always a bad thing. Lost World had some awful writing but in spite of that Zavok did come across as at least slightly layered what with the fact that he actually shows respect for Master Zik like even he has someone he cares about and thinks highly of. I think when he said "Your fate is to be destroyed. Why don't you just accept that, lie down and die?" to me that was honestly one of the coldest lines in a Sonic game up there with Eggman threatening to make mincemeat out of Tails in Adventure. I like Zavok's role in the franchise as like this evil powerhouse megalomaniac monster type dude who can just command respect by his presence alone. Bowser clone is a bit on the nose but at the same time he lacks the humorous or personable qualities that Bowser typically has. Zavok's more like just the version of Bowser you get at face value without any of the charm. I'm very much of the opinion that there are no bad characters only bad writers and IDW sort of vindicated me on that because the Deadly Six are in general a whole lot better when they're being penned by people who seem to actually care about story, Zavok especially. I really think there is potential there I mean they're all over 100 years old so you can do a lot with that in relation to how they view the world around them.
you're right zavok only thinks he's the bad bad guy because ian only tells you which character is back i feel like people have never read an idw comic in their fucking life that's why zavok is listed as the most overrated character if so many say infinite is worse then zavok much worse than infinite
The deadly six are the Sega Koopalings to me. They came out on the Wii U and it was also on the Wii U when i’m pretty sure the Koopalings in mario aren’t really ever gonna get a super big role ever and it’s gonna be given to Bowser jr.
Let's be real here, the only reason why the deadly six didn't work so well is because these two writers from Lost World give them the worst possible choice to the sonic franchise, being one dimensional. Now one-dimensional characters are fine and can be proven to be useful, but the Dadly six were given the boring ones, one is crazy, one is hungry, one is girly, one is an old mentor, one is emo, and the other is pure evil. and what's worse is that their boss battles were the worst ones in any Sonic game. sure, Sonic o6 bosses were bad, but at least they give you a challenge. these guys.... not so much. Which is why I am glad Flynn managed to give them a second chance and make something new with them, even though it was a one-time thing. however, I have a feeling they are not quiet done with them.
Honestly I just think the deadly six might be better if they were in a Good Game that was Written Well. Lost World, Forces and TSR Are all very mid games with poor writing. (Same goes for Infinite)
I have a weird philosophy on why I like them,it’s one thing that I commend the game about that I like about these villains or goobers, I like how unique they are from the sonic rogue of bad guys,we had eggman,a glitchy anime girl,edgy Jackal with Ruby powers and a deity made of liquid that can absorb chaos energy and then you have them where they’re a rag tag gang of mismatched individuals that may seem like a joke at first but when given power or given genuine advice or a plan they can wreak havoc and live up to their name, sonic doesn’t always need to have big and complex villains,sometimes you just need some one note villains that are just meant to be fun to see and how they fight sonic
Infinite is my favorite cause hes the only villain who actually spared Sonics life when he was getting beat up and the only villain who almost killed sonic 3 times
Zavok is my favorite villain, for me he's better than Eggman, what I really hate is fans keep saying about Zavok being a cheap copy of Bowser, yes he's a copy of Bowser yes Sonic Lost World is a Mario Galaxy but at least Zavok has a personality he has a purpose and he He controls a world unlike Bowser who all he does is kidnap Princess Peach, the main reason why Zavok and the Deadly Six are hated is because the writing is bad, not only the Deadly Six but also Sonic, Tails and Eggman, they make Sonic from a cool hedgehog into a childish hero with bad jokes And tails from fox genius and hero-next to dickhead idiot and dangerous enemy robotnik to goofy eggman, evil scientist. But now that they've been fixed in Sonic Frontier and Ian Flynn is writing here, I was thinking, maybe there's hope for the Deadly Six to be better than before, maybe the next Sonic games will be even better.
I hope too: Zetis have cool powers but it was hardly used in games. Infinite was interesting but because of its treatment in the game, he is almost worse than Zavok. Funny thing about Sonic frontiers: Zavok is the only villain Sonic mentions and he doesn't hesited to hope for the worst about him (probably because of what he did to Tails and Earth in Sonic lost world).
Strangely, Ian Flynn could use every Sonic characters owned by Sonic team (Honey counts) in his comics except Infinte and Dr Eggman Nega. But why this?
The problem with Infinite is because the game took him very seriously but he did many stupid things like sparing Sonic twice or too much using his phantom ruby and not its fight skill (I remind he was called the "ultimate mercenary"): even Zavok who is a bad character doesn't only use his control of magnetism and fights in other ways.
Say what you will about the Deadly Six. They're still better written than Infinite. 🤷♂️ Plus they're still a real threat in Lost world (I mean they nearly drained the life out of the whole planet. Literally.) Of course, they're not on the same level as Mephiles or Black Doom, but it's something.
Too bad they aren't more than just some stereotypes but Sega didn't create them to be deep characters but obstacles: so, they achievied it. Contrary to Infinite who was created to be an interesting character but the story didn't help him and Shadow episode turned him into a joke.
11:00 I find it funny that we all consider Zavok as a Bowser clone and yet those 2 fought each other in the Rio 2016 opening movie!
The Deadly Six are definitely more of a threat in the IDW comics compared to their game counterparts.
Love your analysis. Also while we're at the topic of the IDW comics, I'd love your analysis on Sonic's characterisation in the comics. He is quite controversial so I figured it could make for an interesting topic to cover.
Agreed
The comics are canon to the games now
Fun fact: The Deadly Six were one of my favourite childhood villains but only because I was a kid and liked how Sonic had their own version of the Koopalings.
Because after your final encounter with the Deadly Six has them just disappear, I thought Sonic would have killed them. Also because I thought it was funny, I thought they would respawn in a real-world city and would have to start a new life there, hence how Zavok and Zazz could attend the Olympics.
The most interesting part about Zavok is his dynamic with Sonic. Zavok is one of, if not the only villain Sonic has shown outward hatred to or would wish bad things would happen to him. There was a line in Frontiers were Sonic he hopes Zavok was doing terrible. And the idea that he is powerful and can actually make a plan makes him a threat. As long as Ian Flynn is doing doing Zavok, he could be the Darkseid to Sonic’s Superman
Good take. I do think sonic should have atleast one villain who he hates
He sometimes jokes about hating Eggman, too. I think Sonic tends to get angry and wish harm against ANY villain as soon as they actually hurt someone. Especially if it’s one of his friends.
Also Zavok is one of the only characters we see Sonic wailing on.
Honestly...I can see it like that.
Zavok is actually one of my favorite Sonic villains, but i know he's not the best of all. I think if Sonic Team worked more on him, he probably would be a better enemy. Instead of trying to destroy the world like another Sonic Villain, his debut on Lost World could have served to explain his background and origins as a villain, so that the public would become familiar with and interested in the villain until his final fight.
Zavok is one of MY favorite Sonic villains, too. 🙂 Always glad to find someone else who likes the Deadly Six. They’re underrated.
They had decent designs but that's about it, don't know why they are always used in media these days.
Even Snively gets more love than the Deadly Six lmao
For real lmao
I guess my main problem with the deadly Six is how there’s no comradery among them(besides the dynamic between Zig and Zavok) and I know they’re villain groups in media that are like that too but personally I find the villain groups who see each other as equals more interesting. Like the Chaos Council argue with each other but at least they’re moments where they act as equals with each other and brainstorm ideas with each other instead of the members being afraid of one person like it is with the Deadly Six
The members of the Chaos Council having a dynamic alone makes them far more interesting than the Deadly Six
It’s actually spelled camaraderie, and his name is Zik, not Zig.
Yeah, I really don't like IGN
IGN is just the nostalgia critic
I hate their SA1 opinion they put it at SA1 at 3.5 and Sonic 06 a 4.8 SA1 is way fucking better then 06 now I don’t despise 06 like other people but SA1 is still way better.
@@bendyboy7179fr
Sonic was never good.
@@pinstripecool34 And then he needed to make an apology video after that😂
I see the potential for these characters, but their introduction wasn't executed very well at all, so I understand why people don't like them. I think they're supposed to work off of each other, but Lost World's script made them into general stereotypes that don't offer anything compelling, so they just didn't work, no matter the situation. I'm glad they're being treated better in IDW, making them bounce off of each other as they should have in Lost World. To no one's surprise, I find Zavok to be the most compelling out of all of them, and I'd like to see a game where his plan of world destruction is realized to a greater degree because he is an interesting character on his own. As for the rest of them, just make them feel more like villains instead of horribly done stereotypes.
You can watch the Japanese dub of Lost World. I felt slightly more satisfied of the cast.
7:26
It's canon. Eggman mentioned the planet Donpa Kingdom in one of his logs in Sonic Frontiers. This same game canonizes the likes of Sonic Riders. So "It's a racing game" doesn't seem to matter as long as it has a story mode.
But as long as we don't have explanations about how Zavok nicely accepted to obey to Dr Eggman like a good pet, it will be difficult to consider this canon. And even if Dr Eggman mentions this place, it doesn't necessary mean that all events from Team Sonic raccing are canon (Tangle and Sticks are canon to the mainline but it doesn't make Sonic IDW or Sonic boom canon to the mainline).
I know most fans hate the Deadly Six, but I like them. Especially Zavok, he’s one of my favorite Sonic villains. I think they’re funny. And I think they have cool powers and cool designs. And yeah, Zavok is a villain stereotype, but I think that’s suppsoed to be comedic, with him being so melodramatic.
Zavok is like Bane from Batman and Robin, they are buff but can’t hurt a bug but decide to show up with very little purpose to be with the other main villain(if you watched Batman and Robin you will know what I am talking about)
When it came to my expectations for The Deadly Six, it came down to one character. Zik. I feel like Zik could have been more. Heck, he taught Zavok and is basically the smartest out of the six. I feel like if Lost World had better writing, Zik would be more of a foe than Zavok.
I honestly like the concept of the deadly six, but the way they executed it in sonic lost world was just not the best. Idw comics show a perfect way they should have been in the games lol
A lot of their problems would be fixed if they were simply given better character dynamics and honed in on their actual inspiration much like the other characters. The Deadly Six are supposed to be Yokai based on Oni or in this case specifically Ogres, even the name of their group in Japanese remains true to that since they're called "Band of Six Ogres" in Japan. The Conch Shell that controls them might seem random and out of nowhere, but the shell is likely based off of the Japanese Horagai which is used as a protective instrument for the practice of Shugendo. And Shugendo includes a wide pantheon of deities, some of which were Oni.
These characters have got to be some of the most mishandled characters in the entire series all thanks to their debut game and the fact that they debuted in the WORST era in terms of Sonic writing. Nobody even knows what the characters are even supposed to be all because of Sega of America butting in and sterilizing the characters BEFORE they even got out of the gate. They were originally supposed to be called "Oni" but Sega of America decided to be stupid and tell Iizuka that they must be called "Zeti". They're not supposed to be "Bowser/Koopaling clones" like people assume thanks to their poor handling, they're supposed to be wrathful mythical creatures based on Japanese folklore.
The writing in lost world was so awful,if the Japanese writers were in charge of it could have been better.
@@justinarzola4584BOY DO I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU
I don't think people necessarily hate Zavok (or the Deadly Six for that matter) so much as they are baffled that Sega keeps bringing them (especially Zavok) back as though they have been consistent adversaries as opposed to a one-off thing. Its like if Nintendo felt the need to bring Wart to every Mario spin-off as though he had the relevance of Bowser.
About Infinite I’ll say did look interesting at first when I saw him. Then he was written bad and when I saw Sage the first time I thought she would be another infinite or have some connection to him. So I thought she wasn’t going to be excited but boy did Ian Flynn show me wrong she definitely was one of the most interesting villains out of them all good job Ian 👍
7:25
@SONICSTA it was confirmed in one of the Egg Memos in Sonic Frontiers that Team Sonic Racing is canon.
But as long as we don't have explanations about how Zavok nicely accepted to obey to Dr Eggman like a good pet, it will be difficult to consider this canon. And even if Dr Eggman mentions this place, it doesn't necessary mean that all events from Team Sonic raccing are canon (Tangle and Sticks are now canon to the mainline but it doesn't make Sonic IDW or Sonic boom canon to the mainline).
Have you ever wondered what it would be like if the Deadly Six were a group of computer viruses living in a digital world called the Lost Hex? In a world where technology reigns supreme, imagine a captivating digital realm known as the Lost Hex, a vast expanse that exists within the confines of cyberspace. Here, instead of tangible beings, sentient computer viruses roam freely, forming a malevolent group called "Zetiware."
Zavok, the Digital Overlord: Zavok serves as the cunning and powerful leader of Zetiware, akin to a digital overlord ruling over the vast network of the Lost Hex. With his unmatched strategic prowess, Zavok orchestrates the group's malevolent plans, constantly seeking to expand their dominion over the digital landscape. He is a virus with advanced adaptive abilities, evolving and strengthening as he absorbs the traits of defeated adversaries.
Zazz, the Chaotic Instigator: Zazz is the embodiment of chaos and unpredictability among Zetiware. As a virus, he thrives on causing disruptions and generating glitches in the digital world. His unyielding energy and volatile nature make him a formidable adversary, capable of unleashing widespread mayhem with his wild attacks and disruptive creations.
Zomom, the Gluttonous Zetiware: Zomom's insatiable appetite for data and code makes him a colossal threat within the Lost Hex. This virus exists as a massive, lumbering entity, consuming and corrupting digital data wherever he roams. His presence leaves behind a trail of destruction, and defeating him requires clever tactics that exploit his voracious tendencies.
Master Zik, the Ancient Bug: Master Zik is a virus with a vast repository of ancient code and knowledge. As the oldest and wisest member of Zetiware, he harnesses forgotten algorithms and exploits to outsmart intruders. His attacks may seem slow and deliberate, but beneath that facade lies an arsenal of potent cyber techniques.
Zeena, the Temptress of Deceit: Zeena is the master of social engineering in the digital realm. She manipulates other entities with her charm and charisma, exploiting vulnerabilities in their programming. Her tricks and deceits create illusions, diverting players from their goals and leading them into dangerous virtual traps.
Zor, the Melancholic Enigma: Zor may seem melancholic, but his depressive demeanor hides a sinister side. This enigmatic virus is a master at concealing his true intentions, making it challenging for players to predict his next move. His unique ability lies in corrupting crucial system files, leading to unexpected consequences and unforeseen challenges.
I personally don't hate or like the Deadly Six, I just think they're kinda...meh? I'm not the type who thinks that "their designs don't match the franchise" because in the Sonic universe there are all kinds of creatures with different designs that make this a kind of invalid comment, the problem is that they end up being very stereotypical and heavily based on the Koopalings (Iizuka himself admitted that they were inspired too much by the Mario games) and you can summarize them in the strong guy, the wise old man, the snobby girl, the crazy, the dumb and the emo, they kind of don't have any layers or milestones to explore like the rest of them not to mention that as a group they don't have any relationship or organization with the exception of Zavok and Zik (unlike the Chaos Council where even though they have disagreements they manage to brainstorm and reach a solid agreement on what to do) so much so that their powers are not seen as serious threats since in IDW the only time they presented any risk was when they were controlling the zombots but after that they kind of just became... villains of the week? because Sonic can easily deal with all of them alone and if he has any difficulty it's because that is being scripted to try to make things interesting for the reader, they even had some potential but in Sonic's gallery of villains they would be in the low category group while the rest would be at the top, whether in terms of design, powers, charisma, threat level, etc. at least they manage to be enjoyed even if only a little in IDW
5:50 No need! I'LL be the one!
The Deadly Six AREN'T BAD! Outside of their introduction and association with Lost World and some people not liking their designs, they aren't actually bad characters conceptually at all or even in terms of writing, at least not compared to stuff like Metal Sonic or Erazor Djinn or Mephiles. They are a group of Oni that want revenge for their humiliation at the hands of Eggman and Sonic and to destroy the world and bring their suffering in consequence. They enjoy misery and suffering! That's FINE!
If it weren't for the fact they are associated with Lost World's cringy aesthetic and writing, they'd get way less hate imo, and IDW is a good example of it if you ask me.
As for the thing with Zavok...that's kinda always been the case. The Deadly Six have largely been just Zavok's minions with the exception of Zik who is more his master.
I think Sonic destroyed all of Zavok’s minions in Lost World, and that’s why he’s called the former leader of the Deadly Six. And why he’s not with them anymore.
I wondered where the rest of them were in forces.
@@justinarzola4584 well, that wasn’t the real Zavok, that was a phantom clone of him, remember? Eggman just chose not to make clones of the other Zeti for some reason.
I hate Zavok and the rest of the Deadly Six for one reason. Why are they villains?
I see why the rebelled against Eggman in Sonic Lost World.....but then he also fought Sonic even though NOTHING happened between the two. Zavok also had no reason to go after Sonic's planet.
Same thing with IDW. They're just villains for the sake of being villains, for no reason at all. There's no backstory, there's no compelling reason or any reason at all. There's no plan that the Deadly Six have that they are trying to achieve. They're literally just villains for the sake of being villains. They have no personality; their personalities are just caricatures. There's nothing interesting about them. They have nothing. They have no background. They're not compelling villains at all. They're just "bad guys." I've never seen a piece of media where there's a bad guy who's there JUST to be a bad guy, and the few characters I know like that I usually don't like.
What I hate most about them though is SEGA shoving them down our throats, particularly Zavok. They keep bringing him back as a new "main" recurring villain, kinda like a member of Sonic's new "rouge's gallery." Nobody likes them. Literally, almost nobody likes them, yet they keep bringing him back and using him, and I just do. not. understand.
Infinite had the chance to be a great villain, nobody is gonna change my mind on that. heck I still like infinite 5 years later
The deadly six never really gave me that feeling
Never liked them and probably never will, But them being in the Idw comics is nice to see
That's just sad how lack lusting the Deadly Six are if one poorly written villian is better than several generic ones.
People want Infinite to come back because of his potential
Deadly six were definitely a lot of controversy’s and arguments that were resurrected by the conch with the help of dr eggman
Did you see Dr. Eggman on the Near Pure Evil Wiki?
I've never really liked the Deadly Six, always thought they were kinda lame villains. On the topic of the most hated sonic villains, i thought the Chaos Council from sonic prime were now considered the the most hated villains in the sonic franchise?
There one problem with the Deadly Six that nobody can avoid , and you already know.
For such wide variety of designs , they don't have a variety of powers.
It's something I've been working on , making them unique yet cohesive as a group.
Which is a lot more difficult than you think , accidently made OC characters out of them.
That’s admittedly true, except for Zavok. He’s got a bunch of unique tricks. But the rest of them basically just have the same powers with just one special power each.
@@supersonicfan7514 , he has the same powers , Zavok just uses them better.
Even his combat skills and cunning are something he got from the elder.
And while I know that's the point , the rest needed to have a point too.
That's group dynamics , they suck together because they're a team.
@SONICSTA And to top off this crap sandwich, Sonic Lost World has the same "planet traversal" mechanics as BOTH Super Mario Galaxy titles! However, I do love the 'drain Mobius' energy' part of the plot, Amy ALMOST confessing her feelings to Sonic, and the roboticizer FINALLY becoming canon!
I don’t hate the Deadly Six as much as I used to, but I hope they don’t return to the video games for some time. Especially Zavok. That guy was in 3 games back to back. I’m pretty sure we’ve seen enough of his cartoonish mug. At least the IDW comics some what redeem his character.
You should see the Japanese dub of Lost World. It's not SA2 or Frontiers tier writing, not even Heroes writing, but the Deadly Six have more character outside of being stereotypes. Zazz even tells Sonic to go to hell!
Bruh the Japanese script of the 2010s Sonic games was so much better 😭
@@donathan2933 Bascilly.
@@someguyand...whatever23 it rlly was
@@donathan2933Except for Colors DS but totally.
@@zeroxenoverse9251 true the English script was actually tolerable there
Story wise they was threatening but gameplay wise … yeah..
I am one of the few people who liked them from the beginning
cool designs, cool idea (them being the demons or oni of the Sonic world) and an enemy for both Sonic & Eggman
and yeah IDW really shows that there are no bad characters in Sonic, just bad writers
but as for the villain i hate the most, Pachacamac
I'm glad he is only in 2 games, 2 series & actually dead
Can you do a does knuckles love rouge video next
To be honest, i don't like zavok the way he was written in lost world, especially where he shows up in forces and tsr just to make pissing me off and hate him more when he's still there. It should have make him interesting villain character like mephiles for example. I didn't care for deadly six as much as i dislike them because sega thought the idea to make them sonic's koopalings knock off but extremely diferent if i didn't catch up interesting. My biggest problems with zavok because he had no introduction and his backstory since lost world, i feel like the writers didn't show zavok's portrayal of his character Arc, for example ian Flynn did good job writing the character like zavok is something interesting which i need to know about more of him in the first place, so i don't think zavok is the worst villain, maybe just a little after i hate him as a character
The Zavok in Sonic forces isn't the real one, just an illusion (like Chaos and Metal Sonic). Maybe one day, the zetis will have a good role in a main Sonic game.
The koopalings in Mario were often used as gap filler but the only were game where they were a little more than just "elite koopas" was in the bonus episode Mario & Luigi 3: Bowser jr's journey. And I hope that zetis get a similar treatment in the main games.
Deadly Six could've been more interesting if they are a well written homage to something like Rockman/Megaman Archie/X/Zero/ZX Characters than being a bunch of Mario villain ripoffs
Infinite is definitely not HATED per-sey...
Infinite was just a let down and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling salty over so much lost potential in the whole concept of the villain. Sonic Team could have gone dark with it but no, weak motivation and misdirected anger.
I just don't like the Deadly six.... it's like there's no cohesion with them as a team for the most part. Plus I just have a hatred for Lost World in general. Especially the 3DS version and that stupid freaking special stage which requires you to physically move about with the DS and give yourself motion sickness.
The 3DS version had many flaws, but at least, some zetis fights are better than in the Wii U version (especially Zavok).
Sonic forces should have been better: some official arts showed a Green Hill transformed into a dark prison for exemple (we have really the feeling to see another game). But because of the low sales of Sonic lost world and the deserved flop of Sonic boom Rise of Lyric, Sonic team couldn't do all what they wanted and proposed us this bad game (Classic Sonic was even added lastly in the development).
Great video as usual SonicSta!
1:51 I thought that Infinite was going to be a Project Shadow prototype created by Professor Gerald Robotnik because of his name. One of the two goals of Project Shadow was immortality; infinite life.
While the Deadly Six were poorly written in Sonic Lost World and did not have a good reason for making themselves stronger apart from revenge, I like their designs, which inspired me to create my own Zeti characters.
That sucks for the deadly six being the worst villains. Honestly I like zazz tbh
I Cought Up To IDW Comics This Morning With Issue #63 & It's Such A Great Series
I like zavok he should be a good villain
I definitely think that the deadly six are the most hated sonic villains In the sonic series. I definitely think that the deadly six had bad writing in sonic lost world. I definitely think that the deadly six don’t have a sonic Vibe in the sonic series. I definitely think that people would said that infinite is the most hated sonic villain but infinite is a pretty interesting character in the sonic series. I definitely think that infinite was a huge disappointment but I like infinite as a character. I definitely like the deadly six in the IDW comics. My favorite character in the deadly six is Zevok. I definitely don’t think we really need the deadly six back in the series but except Zevok. I definitely think the deadly six are most hated sonic villains but not Zevok. I definitely don’t think that infinite is the most hated sonic villain. I definitely think that infinite was a mystery character in the sonic series.
Despite the haters, I remember that there were quite a few Zeena simps. 😅
Yea
I’m going to start ordering the graphic novels
I think the Deadly Six are-yeah, they're pretty basic but simple isn't always a bad thing. Lost World had some awful writing but in spite of that Zavok did come across as at least slightly layered what with the fact that he actually shows respect for Master Zik like even he has someone he cares about and thinks highly of. I think when he said "Your fate is to be destroyed. Why don't you just accept that, lie down and die?" to me that was honestly one of the coldest lines in a Sonic game up there with Eggman threatening to make mincemeat out of Tails in Adventure. I like Zavok's role in the franchise as like this evil powerhouse megalomaniac monster type dude who can just command respect by his presence alone. Bowser clone is a bit on the nose but at the same time he lacks the humorous or personable qualities that Bowser typically has. Zavok's more like just the version of Bowser you get at face value without any of the charm.
I'm very much of the opinion that there are no bad characters only bad writers and IDW sort of vindicated me on that because the Deadly Six are in general a whole lot better when they're being penned by people who seem to actually care about story, Zavok especially. I really think there is potential there I mean they're all over 100 years old so you can do a lot with that in relation to how they view the world around them.
you're right zavok only thinks he's the bad bad guy because ian only tells you which character is back i feel like people have never read an idw comic in their fucking life that's why zavok is listed as the most overrated character if so many say infinite is worse then zavok much worse than infinite
sega posted on the official sonic Twitter account some time ago saying everything is canon
The deadly six are the Sega Koopalings to me. They came out on the Wii U and it was also on the Wii U when i’m pretty sure the Koopalings in mario aren’t really ever gonna get a super big role ever and it’s gonna be given to Bowser jr.
The only game that gives a more interesting role to Koopalings is the bonus episode of Mario & Luigi 3: "Bowser jr's journey".
Is it just me, or does the only Zeti woman suffering from what we like to call "The Smurfette affect"?
Let's be real here, the only reason why the deadly six didn't work so well is because these two writers from Lost World give them the worst possible choice to the sonic franchise, being one dimensional.
Now one-dimensional characters are fine and can be proven to be useful, but the Dadly six were given the boring ones, one is crazy, one is hungry, one is girly, one is an old mentor, one is emo, and the other is pure evil. and what's worse is that their boss battles were the worst ones in any Sonic game. sure, Sonic o6 bosses were bad, but at least they give you a challenge. these guys.... not so much.
Which is why I am glad Flynn managed to give them a second chance and make something new with them, even though it was a one-time thing. however, I have a feeling they are not quiet done with them.
To be honest the deadly six are just a cheap knockoff version of the koopalings
07:32 which is an argument that i HATE causes you can't say it didn't matter or didn't happen if it's not referred
I'm a Zavok enjoyer
He's very good in Ian Flynn's hands
Infinite, Zaburg and the rest of the deadly six are not bad villians but just not written well
Honestly I just think the deadly six might be better if they were in a Good Game that was Written Well. Lost World, Forces and TSR Are all very mid games with poor writing. (Same goes for Infinite)
I have a weird philosophy on why I like them,it’s one thing that I commend the game about that I like about these villains or goobers, I like how unique they are from the sonic rogue of bad guys,we had eggman,a glitchy anime girl,edgy Jackal with Ruby powers and a deity made of liquid that can absorb chaos energy and then you have them where they’re a rag tag gang of mismatched individuals that may seem like a joke at first but when given power or given genuine advice or a plan they can wreak havoc and live up to their name, sonic doesn’t always need to have big and complex villains,sometimes you just need some one note villains that are just meant to be fun to see and how they fight sonic
The deadly six is the op villains of all time
Fun fact: Zavok has a mouth
Surprisingly enough there one of the few to actually anger Sonic.
Yeah, but that’s because they kidnapped Tails. Sonic would get mad at ANYone if they did that.
The zetis also tried to absorb all life energy from the Earth, it is another reason for Sonic to hate them.
The IDw Comics could fit between Forces and Frontiers.
They confirmed that it takes place after forces
Underrated
Infinite is not coming back anymore. Because Sonic and his friends killed him for some reason.
I wouldn’t call Zavok a Bowser clone. They have pretty different personalities.
Infinite is my favorite cause hes the only villain who actually spared Sonics life when he was getting beat up and the only villain who almost killed sonic 3 times
thats an interesting take
But also the only one who thought that sparing Sonic many times was a good idea (even Dr Eggman told him it was stupid).
Ign isn't good
Yes team sonic racing is canon almost all spin off are canon story books. sonic battle. rival 1 and 2. riders. And more
Zavok is my favorite villain, for me he's better than Eggman, what I really hate is fans keep saying about Zavok being a cheap copy of Bowser, yes he's a copy of Bowser yes Sonic Lost World is a Mario Galaxy but at least Zavok has a personality he has a purpose and he He controls a world unlike Bowser who all he does is kidnap Princess Peach, the main reason why Zavok and the Deadly Six are hated is because the writing is bad, not only the Deadly Six but also Sonic, Tails and Eggman, they make Sonic from a cool hedgehog into a childish hero with bad jokes And tails from fox genius and hero-next to dickhead idiot and dangerous enemy robotnik to goofy eggman, evil scientist.
But now that they've been fixed in Sonic Frontier and Ian Flynn is writing here, I was thinking, maybe there's hope for the Deadly Six to be better than before, maybe the next Sonic games will be even better.
I hope too: Zetis have cool powers but it was hardly used in games. Infinite was interesting but because of its treatment in the game, he is almost worse than Zavok.
Funny thing about Sonic frontiers: Zavok is the only villain Sonic mentions and he doesn't hesited to hope for the worst about him (probably because of what he did to Tails and Earth in Sonic lost world).
I want Infinite back. I want him back NOW!!!!!!
Strangely, Ian Flynn could use every Sonic characters owned by Sonic team (Honey counts) in his comics except Infinte and Dr Eggman Nega. But why this?
I like them. They may be wimpy and one note but I just like random crazy dudes like this. They look like something I would make.
I hate Infinite the most.
The problem with Infinite is because the game took him very seriously but he did many stupid things like sparing Sonic twice or too much using his phantom ruby and not its fight skill (I remind he was called the "ultimate mercenary"): even Zavok who is a bad character doesn't only use his control of magnetism and fights in other ways.
Undeserved, peak villian, my goat
read idw
I literally said i do in the video😭
Im gonna say it. There is NOTHING wrong with lost world. its amazing. /srs
I’m actually zavok is bowser’s brother
Say what you will about the Deadly Six. They're still better written than Infinite. 🤷♂️ Plus they're still a real threat in Lost world (I mean they nearly drained the life out of the whole planet. Literally.) Of course, they're not on the same level as Mephiles or Black Doom, but it's something.
Too bad they aren't more than just some stereotypes but Sega didn't create them to be deep characters but obstacles: so, they achievied it. Contrary to Infinite who was created to be an interesting character but the story didn't help him and Shadow episode turned him into a joke.
Ight the deadly six are hated but me personally infinite is shitty villian
11:01
I mean yeah but, zavok is good and bowser kinda sucks so i don't care 🙂🙂🙂
other way around bud
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