Had no idea I was "BREAKING the LAW" by repairing a friends stock because he handed me the entire rifle #?*! I do need to look at getting some checkering tools as I am getting better at making grips. Made some for my 1911 from Black Walnut that turned out pretty nice, minus the checkering. The bigger problem is finding the wood! You can have tools sent directly to your door, however picking that piece of wood you want, as I'm sure you know becomes more difficult!
By the letter of the law, if you're rendering professional gunsmithing services and a firearm is left with you overnight, you're required to hold a valid Federal Firearms License and enter the firearm in your permanent record. If you're checkering a gun for your friend as a favor, you don't have to meet those requirements. Of course, some of the more restrictive states (like here in Oregon) would consider that a transfer and require a background check. Hopefully, you don't live in one of those states.
Don't be afraid to turn the way work if you don't have a high degree of confidence that you can do the work. Gain the skills to do the work. Gain the knowledge to do the work. Don't be afraid to turn it away. Not everybody can do everything out there. Even the best. Most skilled. Most knowledgeable gunsmith can't do everything if there's no money in it for you and what I'm saying here is that somebody brings you a firearm and you don't have the confidence that they can pay the bill after it's finished. Don't take the work because it does. You know good to do the work and it does the customer know good either because now you've done the work. You have an investment in time and and parts and and things like this that you need to get recouped in and your entitled to get that recouped so you have to hold on to the firearm hall. Tell you you get paid and now the customer is out but they can't make the can't pay the bill. So if they don't give you the confidence that they can actually pay that don't take the work that you can't get paid for. There's no money in it for you. Difficult customers don't even take a dime from them unless you've actually done work and now they're being difficult. But if there been difficult right off the bat, don't take any money, hand it back to them and tell them go someplace else don't even worry about it. Somebody brings you something that's unsafe and you give it back to them and say that you can't do anything and they get mad. Let them worry about it. Don't even take a dime from them. They're not worth it. The amount of money you're going to lose doing the inspection and then putting it on your bench to look at. It is not worth the headache that you're going to get from a difficult customer
That Cinnabar guy makes really good gunsmithing videos. You are informative, entertaining and you work on my kind of firearms. Once again a great video.
Okay, something here that may save some people if you're interested in getting into gunsmithing. Do not let a mill or a put you off and getting into gunsmithing. You do not need a mill or a lathe to be a competent quality. Gunsmith fact many gunsmiths don't have either and they're very good at what they do. One option is find somebody that does have one that is very good and partner up with them. And what I mean by that is when you have work that comes in that's going to require a meal or a lathe go over to them and say hey I've got this work. I'm I'm a gunsmith. I've got this work. You may have to share with them your FFL license information, but you can either transfer the work over to them, let them finish it or do the work that needs to be done and then let them transfer it back to you and then you bill your customer for the appropriate amount or see if they'll let you go over there and participate. Watch while it's being done so you're gaining skills about getting this done. So when you do get your mail or your lathe you already have knowledge and experience on operating a mill and a lathe. I don't have a physical place where I can put one either in a small operation or even in a large operation because they're they're heavy and running. The power needed is quite prohibitive right now, but in the future I may be getting one but I know where I can take one or take work to get any of that stuff done. Now the problem is is if there's a super busy well your work may not get bumped ahead for professional courtesy because they've also got a keep their customers happy. So you maybe weeks months years waiting to get some of that work done. Just be aware of that. Understand them become friends with them. Most of them that I know are super friendly and a lot of times if you're not bringing them massive amounts of work, you just need to bring them a little bit here and there. They're liable to bump it up and be happy with it, but no as many of them as many places that are around or even just a machine shop. Now you'll have to stay with the work while they do it at the machine shop, but that is an option when you're starting out. You don't have to spend the thousands of dollars to get a meal or a lathe put in because depending on how big it is you may have to put in a huge reinforced concrete pad and run the appropriate power which can be 220 440 and that can be very expensive. It's not if it's not already ran
I've worked for several gunsmith for years. ( metal work) mostly restoration. Never did it for money was about bartering. Was always surprised how much time thay worked and how little money thay make.
Great vid! I’ve been gunsmithing for over 20 years now and you cover a lot of good points. A few things to reemphasize or add; 1. Experience is one of the most important. Some you will get from mistakes. Don’t miss out on the education you will get from your mistakes. LEARN FROM THEM. 2. Build (and continue to build)a library. I now consider mine the most valuable tool I own. While the internet contains a lot of useful info, that library has saved my tail on many occasions. 3. Don’t be afraid to turn down work you are either not equipped or qualified to do. 4. Don’t be afraid to turn down work on junk. You should let your experience be a guide in this and start a list(and add to it as time passes) of guns that just are not worth your time. 5. Don’t try to do everything. Some work is just best left to someone who specializes in it. 6. If it’s just about the money, find a specialty. Personally I prefer the constant new challenge of general repair and refinish, but doing so does limit you on how fast you can turn work out. 7. Once established, unless you have someone to work the counter for you, limit your business hours. You can’t make money standing at the counter or while on the phone. 8. Your success is primarily governed by your sheer determination and willingness to adapt. If you truly want to make it work, you have to have a “don’t quit”attitude and be willing to work around the obstacles in your way. If you are the type to give up when things get hard, don’t expect to make it in the business.
I follow this one guy's channel in South Carolina, he seems to find a bunch of really weird stuff to fix. That guy at the Cinnabar isn't too bad either. Personally, I'd love to get up to Prescott and attend Yavapai College's school of gunsmithing. Until then, I'll just have to be content with watching videos, reading books, and tinkering with my own stuff. Thanks for everything you're doing on the channel, it is certainly entertaining and educational. I hope you all have a Merry Christmas!
Another thing you guys can do is what he said was specialize. What firearms are you most interested in? Do some research talk with gunsmiths that are doing that kind of work and see how much work they really get. Also in certain areas of the world are the country more other certain firearms will be more popular than other firearms. Kind of know what they are because it does make no sense to specialize in a firearm. The very few people have in your area get to know what is in your area. Glock is huge. Comment almost everywhere but in certain areas there are other firearms that are far more common. Understand those go to gun shops. Find out what firearms are actually selling the most and ask a second follow-up question which one's a return to the most because if you have one that's sells a lot of but it's returned a lot. There may not be a whole lot of people out there that has those that would be interested. Find out what sells a lot and doesn't come back. Not come back as in you know they don't bring it back to resell just like calibers in your area will vary from one area to the next. You go to the gun shop and find out what caliber are they ammunition sells the most because you may find out that a particular caliber they don't sell very much of. So. Therefore, there's no point in getting tooling and so forth for that particular caliber that cartridge that chambering that is not any point in tooling up for that if nobody has it in your area a good file set and finding a place where you can get some good steel brass aluminum and you can make a bunch of your own tools. Good hacks. All things like this and that can one give you some experience working with these things to get more precise and find out and understand exactly how this file works versus a different file. But in the process you're not just filing away metal. You're in the process of making something that you're going to be using and in the end you feel good because you've made something that you're going to be using that you need and you've gained skills. In the meantime, even if you go to school, you still got to have the skills and the only way to get the skills is actually do something and use those skills and work on those skills find out what gunsmiths are in your area and what they specialize in and see just how busy they are. If they're massively busy and they are years behind in their work, you're not going to be taking work away from them. If you also specialize in that same thing and what I'm trying to say here is if you got somebody that is specializing in something and they are getting something in and a couple of months later they're getting it out and it's just really quick. There may not be enough work there to keep you both busy doing that, so you may want to look at specializing in a different area. Something that's appropriate for your area for but not necessarily directly competing against that one person. Most of the gunsmiths i know have a big backlog and there's just not a whole lot of them around. We have one person that does Sarah coating in my area and one person that's doing bluing in my area and that's it so there I don't know exactly how much work they have because it's not something that I thought about doing here. But I know where they're at and I can send them work that direction. But knowing what is around you and who's around you because friendly with them, friends with them get to know them on a on a first name basis and most of them won't be mad because you're getting into the business. A lot of them are very hey. Cool! Great, wonderful and even some of them are like hey anything I can help you out with let me know and the ones that I they will often time share knowledge share books because a lot of the books are extremely hard to find super expensive and the ones that are out there are out of print. So what's out? There is all that's out there and they're not getting easier to find, so sometimes they'll share books with each other knowledge. Occasionally they'll share tools but you got to get to know these people and get to be where they can trust you and so forth before they'll do any of that because that's books are very invital knowledge is very vital understand your limitations and what I mean by that is understand where your weak and your knowledge. Understand where your weak and your skills understand where you quite don't understand exactly how things go and practice on that. Don't practice on your customers gun. If you want to learn how to cut a dovetail, go buy one and buy a cheap one and practice on yours or go buy some bar stock and practice on that if you messed that up. It's yours or it's just bar stock and sometimes you can go to machine shops and so forth and they'll have scrap that they'll let you have a couple of pieces for. Sometimes they'll sell it to you because they do sell their scrap metal. But then you got metal that you can practice on cutting a dovetail out of or anything else that you want to do
And if you want a specialize, let's say you want a specialize like say in a 1911 you can specialize in 1911s and there's a few other guns in there that you can throw in that mix with it that are not terribly different in their operation. And you can pick up some work from that like the CZ 75, the high power and the 1911. They're all still framed. They all. Yes they're very different from one another but they all work with similarities. Learning one helps you understand the other and then you understand the third. You can get books on all of these and be able to specialize in the 1911 and still be able to do a lot of work on the other two. Same thing with Glock polymer guns. Almost all work similar so similar that from one to the other. The parts are very very close in understanding how they work now. You have some that are really drastically different but generally speaking the functionality of how they work is really close to one another and that's because polymers have to be built and produced and put together a certain way. You do have some that are really wildly different than the others just like you have anywhere else. But Glock Smith& Wesson Ruger are fairly similar and operation. They're different. You can't swap parts that nothing like that but if you understand how one works, you understand how the others work. So if you take the courses on being a Glock armor you can still take some of that information and use it to understand and figure out how a Smith& Wesson m&p works or the Ruger SR. Line how it works. Like I said, there's going to be some differences but again you can learn how others work so you can specialize in one, but that knowledge can be used to identify how others work
I used to work for John Martz Luger carbine maker from Lincoln, CA in the 1970s and 1980s and never had to have a firearms licence to have his Luger carbines for as long as two or three weeks while I made stocks, grips and magazine bases. I also made parts and flat springs. Now I think it could be problematic here in California. Nice mill and lathe. Excellent presentation.
Unfortunately, it's federal law now that any gun that stays overnight with a gunsmith must be logged in and out of the gunsmith's permanent record (bound book).
In South Africa maybe fourty years ago I had a load of guns.I also had a friend who was a gunsmith and he always used to say:I go to him with a problem,and then I tell him how to fix it.But we were always good mates.Eventually I bought a load of handtools from Brownells over a period of time and with knowledge gleaned over the years I would work on my and my friends guns.But of course could only do so much due to the lack of certain toools.but this came about because even then in South Africa good trained gunsmiths were hard to find,and when you found one they were always months behind.So if you needed your carry gun worked on and you had to leave it with the smith.You would be defenceless unless you had another piece to carry.
Great information. I took the plunge into DIY gunsmithing just for my own guns. My area of focus is doing "full race jobs" on SAAs in the tradition of Bob Munden. I bought a hobby milling machine, stones and files, a bench grinder as well as a bunch of small shop tools. I find I need a lathe frequently and will get one sooner or later. Of course it would have been a lot less expensive and quicker even with long wait times to have a gunsmith build me a race gun. For me the fun is just discovering how to properly do the operations I want. Every time I do something repeatedly I get better at it and I've ruined some cylinders and other parts in the process, but they're all mine so I don't feel too bad. Recently, I finished converting an Italian Clone into my first crude SAA race gun. The machined areas are a bit ugly but it runs great. I can fan it hard and it indexes properly every time. Eventually I'll get one that run greats and looks great. The fun is in the journey.
I want to start of and say this is one of my favorite channels i love lever guns and revolvers i have been thinking for some time of becoming a gunsmith because i enjoy working on mine so much this video got me thinking harder on that again
I really enjoyed your presentation, lots of good info for those interested in entering the trade. Myself I have just retired from 40 plus years as a professional gunsmith and have tried to encourage as many up and coming smiths as possible to get into the business. One piece of advise that was told to me many years ago from an old time tradesman when I was having doubts about my career choice was this, and I quote. " Men will always hunt, men will always have guns" These words stuck with me and looking back over my shoulder it all worked out. I was never out of work and I always managed to make enough $$$ to keep the wolf away from the door, raise a family, and keep the banker happy. Fortunate are the people who can combine their passion with their Job, it's not all about money. It's about contentment. For what it's worth, that's my philosophy. Cheers D.H.
Wish I had the eyesight to still smith and the energy of my youth to work the ranch now Oregon has the same kind of environment in places as my old stomping grounds of Wyoming. Still have a lot of builds floating around in this old mountain man head
Great video. I took a boatload of NRA summer classes and they helped a lot. Even though I spent a lot of time in the machine shop at the classes and welding I’d still like to go to school for these 2 disciples. I did apprentice for about 3 weeks with an extremely gifted builder of Jager rifles, but he had an aneurism and that was the end of that. It unfortunately killed him. I would LOVE to see a video on getting a business license as a sole propertor or LLC and what needs to be done to get that. I realize that it varies by region, I live in rural tennessee so it shouldn’t be that difficult , but the SBA has been about as helpful as a course in biology would be to the trade.
Lol, I've been sitting on the fence thinking about smithing for the last few years. I've been tinkering on my own toys and tools for several decades. I've always tinkered with everything. Luckily, I'm mechanically inclined. In spite of this, I had always been in a sales management environment. I've done mechanical work as a hobby or necessity all my life. I figured since I love airplanes, I could get paid decently as an A&P mechanic. I went to school and got my license. That was roughly 8 years ago. Figured out aircraft work is more of a young mans game... I love guns, too, so I figured I'd check out SDI. I didn't like what I saw. They seem to treat everyone the same without regard for their current knowledge or experience. I've taken care of my own guns since I was in grade school. I've always enjoyed tinkering with them... it's a very satisfying type of fun. Old revolvers and lever guns are a wonderful choice to specialize in. I'm still an A&P, but I'm likely to make a change if the conditions are right. I can handle smithing. I've always enjoyed working on my own projects. Doing them myself is how I've justified collecting my own tools.
Im not a trained smith. What most likely would have taken a trained/experenced gunsmith a couple days to figure out, took me from 2016 to 2019 to rectify. It all started as a .22 rifle left in my maintenance office one day. I waked into my Arctic Alaska office and there sat a Rem 552 missing the sights. I circled round the problem since day one. Boogered up chamber that resulted in excessive headspace. I taken to calling that rifle the dud maker. Itd tink the case rim enuf to not fire the round.
I really appreciate your advice and your willingness to share. I’ve just begun my gun smithing journey last year, my current trade is seasonal so I enrolled in an online program and so far it’s been a good place to get my feet wet, however I realized right away that I need to get some hands on machining courses to really start to work towards what I want to do. I’m only doing small jobs and can only do a few things due to my workspace and regulation but I make it point to be extremely proficient in those small jobs. I’ve had to turn down work, which is tough but I’d much rather have iron be in more experienced hands then mine. Ive tried to diverse a little bit and become more involved with the local range and sporting community, I help spot those getting rifles and handguns sighted in for new and regular shooters, it’s helped build a customer base, familiarity and provide work. Thank you for your content.
Finding a good gunsmith in my area is near on impossible. I spent quite a bit of time just looking for someone to put new sights and trigger spring on a modern pistol and revolver. We certainly need more experienced gun smiths.
There is a definite lack of gunsmiths in many areas. On top of that, UPS and FEDEX are making it much harder to ship guns to gunsmiths if you find one who's not in your area.
Thank You ! I am glad I have run across your channel , it is always good to see someone willing to teach what they know and better yet to have someone HONEST as a teacher, generally most of us can tell a mans character by the way he handles himself in action and conversation, I can tell you are an Honest human being and take pride in the things you do. thanks again
Wish I'd started when I was younger. Couldn't afford them. I love em. Was raised on Roy Rogers, etc. I'm like you. Love lever and single action. Gotten a little old to start over. I'm afraid.love watching you and Mark Novak. Thanks
I wanted to become a gunsmith as my retirement. I found the schools for learning it not completely being truthful on the total cost in the schooling. Then looking into the licensing for it and it’s not completely truthful on getting all the cost let alone all the forms needed.
very good video. Thank you for sharing your experience. I started my gunsmith hobby a couple of years after I retired. I have found Midway USA to be very helpful with teaching videos. The community college info was right on target for metal work.
Another problem with gunsmithing is everyone wants you to tell them how to fix it their self and the rest don't want to pay anything to have work done I know of a few so called smiths that think that they are smiths and all they can do is take certain guns apart and clean them and reassemble anyone with a bit of common sense and mechanical abilities can do that
Oh my goodness, yes! One of the drawbacks of having this channel is the shear volume of people calling or writing and wanting my advice on how to fix their firearms. I'm going to have to make a video addressing this topic and hope it slows it down.
@@thecinnabar8442 I took some courses in gunsmithing and even apprenticed with a what I would consider a full service gunsmith we did hot rebluing stockmaking rebarreling custom build a rifle if a customer wanted one action work as well as repairs and I know exactly what you go through and I believe we're both on the same side of this fence I got so frustrated with it I left in disgust and said I'd never have anything to do with it again and this had been a lifelong dream to be a gunsmith don't fool with it much anymore as I'm almost 60 but still dabble a little bit on my own out of my house
Interesting video. Sometimes the old timers can't really relate what beginners go through today and therefore your story is valuable I believe. And yes, that Cinnabar fella makes some darn good videos!
Thanks for the information in my younger years I wanted to be a gunsmith but I took a different path but it’s always interesting to learn new things and hear the experiences of others. Merry Christmas
Good video! By serving an apprenticeship is how I and (Karsh) learned wedding and portrait photography! It was very tough at times but I didn't have $40,000. to spend at Brooks in Santa Barbara. Thanks for passing your info along to everyone. Often times I had unemployed Brooks graduates as how did you do it?
I’m going the AGI way. I’m actually at a point where I need to start making money at it, even if it’s just cleaning guns, or I’m going to loose interests.
I looked into being a glock armor, but being a civilian there really aren't any classes available. Leo and military only. I know that's not really gunsmithing, but it's a start.
I am a tinker with my own firearms I have been self teaching and have learned about colt single action army revolver’s and got the book on working on them also bought the barrel Vice and the Marilyn gun rench for working on them I would like to get hot blueing outfit and be able to color case hardening get a kill I would like to get a few action renches for lever action and bolt action guns but first I am going to have to get another building built
I was on the AGI site yesterday and saw they have cowboy action shooting armors course (I am interested in)Is this the online course by chance you took? NRA summer course in my area are no where to be found. As for machine shop courses in my area I can only find CNC course about 3hrs away, so I have been having to teach myself machining from you tube. The last gunsmith in a 100miles in my area had a stroke a couple years ago so I am out in that area. I have bought pawn shop broken guns on purpose for cheap just to fix, fixed 2 of the three and fixed all but one of my Granddaddies pre-1900 Marlins.
I have both a used American lathe and a brand new Grizzly. They both have their plusses and minuses. There are certain things I choose one over the other for and use them both regularly. Most machinists I know prefer the quality of the older American lathes and I'd have to agree as long as they're not worn out from use.
I would really like to become a gunsmith. I have been doing security for a few years. Im fairly young. Im 24 and i have a wife and kids. So my biggest concern in pay. It doesnt make sense to me why they get paid so little if they are in such high demand. I would have to drop thousands on an education and i would be making less than what i already make as a security guard.
Apprenticeships have been dying going away for probably two to three. Maybe four decades now and there's a few reasons for that. One lack of interest. The increased massively increased cost to the shop or the person who offers the apprenticeship and the fact that your responsible for everything you're apprentice does good bad indifferent your responsible for it and you're not just responsible for it. While you're supervising them, you're responsible for it. Even when they're not. You know watching your you're not just watching them and a lot of times that can get to be very costly. You used to be able to find apprenticeships everywhere and it was far more desirable to have an apprenticeship than it was to go to school someplace because it just was better education and they're just going away in favor of schools and you just don't learn the same thing in a school. There's absolutely no way to learn the same thing in a school that you can and apprenticeship because you get hands on in real world situations. Real world jobs where in schools the best they can do is a lab project. Even if they bring something in oftentimes it's handpicked by the instructor to not be as hard or overly challenging cuz not only are they supposed to teach you, they're also supposed to keep you interested and not just leave halfway through the class because that's rather you know it's not good I've seen a few shops that have a friendships. Have a few and some of them have long waiting list for apprentice positions but it is definitely something that is going away
Repaired guns for 40years PART TME. Never saw a future in doing the work full time. Still don't UNLESS you want to become a small business custom MANUFACTURER.
I have some old gun parts some Winchester the 22 pump action on some pretty rough shape I'd like to give it that to you along with the quack and Bush and a whole bunch of other things if you're interested drop me a message on we'll see what I can do to ship those to you I hate them just sit here and go to waste maybe you can do some of the parts for something
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"Advanced tinkering" ... hahaha, that pretty much explains my entire life :) Thanks for the video, another very good one.
Had no idea I was "BREAKING the LAW" by repairing a friends stock because he handed me the entire rifle #?*! I do need to look at getting some checkering tools as I am getting better at making grips. Made some for my 1911 from Black Walnut that turned out pretty nice, minus the checkering. The bigger problem is finding the wood! You can have tools sent directly to your door, however picking that piece of wood you want, as I'm sure you know becomes more difficult!
By the letter of the law, if you're rendering professional gunsmithing services and a firearm is left with you overnight, you're required to hold a valid Federal Firearms License and enter the firearm in your permanent record. If you're checkering a gun for your friend as a favor, you don't have to meet those requirements. Of course, some of the more restrictive states (like here in Oregon) would consider that a transfer and require a background check. Hopefully, you don't live in one of those states.
@@thecinnabar8442 God Bless Texas!
Don't be afraid to turn the way work if you don't have a high degree of confidence that you can do the work. Gain the skills to do the work. Gain the knowledge to do the work. Don't be afraid to turn it away. Not everybody can do everything out there. Even the best. Most skilled. Most knowledgeable gunsmith can't do everything if there's no money in it for you and what I'm saying here is that somebody brings you a firearm and you don't have the confidence that they can pay the bill after it's finished. Don't take the work because it does. You know good to do the work and it does the customer know good either because now you've done the work. You have an investment in time and and parts and and things like this that you need to get recouped in and your entitled to get that recouped so you have to hold on to the firearm hall. Tell you you get paid and now the customer is out but they can't make the can't pay the bill. So if they don't give you the confidence that they can actually pay that don't take the work that you can't get paid for. There's no money in it for you. Difficult customers don't even take a dime from them unless you've actually done work and now they're being difficult. But if there been difficult right off the bat, don't take any money, hand it back to them and tell them go someplace else don't even worry about it. Somebody brings you something that's unsafe and you give it back to them and say that you can't do anything and they get mad. Let them worry about it. Don't even take a dime from them. They're not worth it. The amount of money you're going to lose doing the inspection and then putting it on your bench to look at. It is not worth the headache that you're going to get from a difficult customer
You nailed it 100%. I have been a gunsmith for 45 years. Always learning.
Thanks Rick! Congrats on a lifetime of good, honest work! Lots of respect from us.
I hear ya. I love my 1870’s-1920’s firearms. Trapdoors, Rolling blocks, and a variety of early shotguns. They just don’t make em like that any more. 👍
Gotta love real wood, blued and case colored steel!!!!
I’ve been a machinist for 35 years and I was a welder before that. I’ve always been interested in gun smithing so this video was interesting to me.
That Cinnabar guy makes really good gunsmithing videos. You are informative, entertaining and you work on my kind of firearms. Once again a great video.
Okay, something here that may save some people if you're interested in getting into gunsmithing. Do not let a mill or a put you off and getting into gunsmithing. You do not need a mill or a lathe to be a competent quality. Gunsmith fact many gunsmiths don't have either and they're very good at what they do. One option is find somebody that does have one that is very good and partner up with them. And what I mean by that is when you have work that comes in that's going to require a meal or a lathe go over to them and say hey I've got this work. I'm I'm a gunsmith. I've got this work. You may have to share with them your FFL license information, but you can either transfer the work over to them, let them finish it or do the work that needs to be done and then let them transfer it back to you and then you bill your customer for the appropriate amount or see if they'll let you go over there and participate. Watch while it's being done so you're gaining skills about getting this done. So when you do get your mail or your lathe you already have knowledge and experience on operating a mill and a lathe. I don't have a physical place where I can put one either in a small operation or even in a large operation because they're they're heavy and running. The power needed is quite prohibitive right now, but in the future I may be getting one but I know where I can take one or take work to get any of that stuff done. Now the problem is is if there's a super busy well your work may not get bumped ahead for professional courtesy because they've also got a keep their customers happy. So you maybe weeks months years waiting to get some of that work done. Just be aware of that. Understand them become friends with them. Most of them that I know are super friendly and a lot of times if you're not bringing them massive amounts of work, you just need to bring them a little bit here and there. They're liable to bump it up and be happy with it, but no as many of them as many places that are around or even just a machine shop. Now you'll have to stay with the work while they do it at the machine shop, but that is an option when you're starting out. You don't have to spend the thousands of dollars to get a meal or a lathe put in because depending on how big it is you may have to put in a huge reinforced concrete pad and run the appropriate power which can be 220 440 and that can be very expensive. It's not if it's not already ran
I've worked for several gunsmith for years. ( metal work) mostly restoration. Never did it for money was about bartering. Was always surprised how much time thay worked and how little money thay make.
Great vid!
I’ve been gunsmithing for over 20 years now and you cover a lot of good points.
A few things to reemphasize or add;
1. Experience is one of the most important. Some you will get from mistakes. Don’t miss out on the education you will get from your mistakes. LEARN FROM THEM.
2. Build (and continue to build)a library.
I now consider mine the most valuable tool I own. While the internet contains a lot of useful info, that library has saved my tail on many occasions.
3. Don’t be afraid to turn down work you are either not equipped or qualified to do.
4. Don’t be afraid to turn down work on junk. You should let your experience be a guide in this and start a list(and add to it as time passes) of guns that just are not worth your time.
5. Don’t try to do everything. Some work is just best left to someone who specializes in it.
6. If it’s just about the money, find a specialty. Personally I prefer the constant new challenge of general repair and refinish, but doing so does limit you on how fast you can turn work out.
7. Once established, unless you have someone to work the counter for you, limit your business hours. You can’t make money standing at the counter or while on the phone.
8. Your success is primarily governed by your sheer determination and willingness to adapt. If you truly want to make it work, you have to have a “don’t quit”attitude and be willing to work around the obstacles in your way. If you are the type to give up when things get hard, don’t expect to make it in the business.
Excellent points!!!! Thanks for sharing your experience, Dan.
great points. I copied them to keep so I can continue to learn from them in the future.
I follow this one guy's channel in South Carolina, he seems to find a bunch of really weird stuff to fix. That guy at the Cinnabar isn't too bad either. Personally, I'd love to get up to Prescott and attend Yavapai College's school of gunsmithing. Until then, I'll just have to be content with watching videos, reading books, and tinkering with my own stuff. Thanks for everything you're doing on the channel, it is certainly entertaining and educational. I hope you all have a Merry Christmas!
Thanks. Merry Christmas to you and your family, John!!
I watch "Anvil" too. First place I go for info. He has some great practical "how-to's"
Another thing you guys can do is what he said was specialize. What firearms are you most interested in? Do some research talk with gunsmiths that are doing that kind of work and see how much work they really get. Also in certain areas of the world are the country more other certain firearms will be more popular than other firearms. Kind of know what they are because it does make no sense to specialize in a firearm. The very few people have in your area get to know what is in your area. Glock is huge. Comment almost everywhere but in certain areas there are other firearms that are far more common. Understand those go to gun shops. Find out what firearms are actually selling the most and ask a second follow-up question which one's a return to the most because if you have one that's sells a lot of but it's returned a lot. There may not be a whole lot of people out there that has those that would be interested. Find out what sells a lot and doesn't come back. Not come back as in you know they don't bring it back to resell just like calibers in your area will vary from one area to the next. You go to the gun shop and find out what caliber are they ammunition sells the most because you may find out that a particular caliber they don't sell very much of. So. Therefore, there's no point in getting tooling and so forth for that particular caliber that cartridge that chambering that is not any point in tooling up for that if nobody has it in your area a good file set and finding a place where you can get some good steel brass aluminum and you can make a bunch of your own tools. Good hacks. All things like this and that can one give you some experience working with these things to get more precise and find out and understand exactly how this file works versus a different file. But in the process you're not just filing away metal. You're in the process of making something that you're going to be using and in the end you feel good because you've made something that you're going to be using that you need and you've gained skills. In the meantime, even if you go to school, you still got to have the skills and the only way to get the skills is actually do something and use those skills and work on those skills find out what gunsmiths are in your area and what they specialize in and see just how busy they are. If they're massively busy and they are years behind in their work, you're not going to be taking work away from them. If you also specialize in that same thing and what I'm trying to say here is if you got somebody that is specializing in something and they are getting something in and a couple of months later they're getting it out and it's just really quick. There may not be enough work there to keep you both busy doing that, so you may want to look at specializing in a different area. Something that's appropriate for your area for but not necessarily directly competing against that one person. Most of the gunsmiths i know have a big backlog and there's just not a whole lot of them around. We have one person that does Sarah coating in my area and one person that's doing bluing in my area and that's it so there I don't know exactly how much work they have because it's not something that I thought about doing here. But I know where they're at and I can send them work that direction. But knowing what is around you and who's around you because friendly with them, friends with them get to know them on a on a first name basis and most of them won't be mad because you're getting into the business. A lot of them are very hey. Cool! Great, wonderful and even some of them are like hey anything I can help you out with let me know and the ones that I they will often time share knowledge share books because a lot of the books are extremely hard to find super expensive and the ones that are out there are out of print. So what's out? There is all that's out there and they're not getting easier to find, so sometimes they'll share books with each other knowledge. Occasionally they'll share tools but you got to get to know these people and get to be where they can trust you and so forth before they'll do any of that because that's books are very invital knowledge is very vital understand your limitations and what I mean by that is understand where your weak and your knowledge. Understand where your weak and your skills understand where you quite don't understand exactly how things go and practice on that. Don't practice on your customers gun. If you want to learn how to cut a dovetail, go buy one and buy a cheap one and practice on yours or go buy some bar stock and practice on that if you messed that up. It's yours or it's just bar stock and sometimes you can go to machine shops and so forth and they'll have scrap that they'll let you have a couple of pieces for. Sometimes they'll sell it to you because they do sell their scrap metal. But then you got metal that you can practice on cutting a dovetail out of or anything else that you want to do
I was apprenticing as a gunsmith prior to enlisting. Would love to transition back into that world, but my current job has me constantly traveling.
And if you want a specialize, let's say you want a specialize like say in a 1911 you can specialize in 1911s and there's a few other guns in there that you can throw in that mix with it that are not terribly different in their operation. And you can pick up some work from that like the CZ 75, the high power and the 1911. They're all still framed. They all. Yes they're very different from one another but they all work with similarities. Learning one helps you understand the other and then you understand the third. You can get books on all of these and be able to specialize in the 1911 and still be able to do a lot of work on the other two. Same thing with Glock polymer guns. Almost all work similar so similar that from one to the other. The parts are very very close in understanding how they work now. You have some that are really drastically different but generally speaking the functionality of how they work is really close to one another and that's because polymers have to be built and produced and put together a certain way. You do have some that are really wildly different than the others just like you have anywhere else. But Glock Smith& Wesson Ruger are fairly similar and operation. They're different. You can't swap parts that nothing like that but if you understand how one works, you understand how the others work. So if you take the courses on being a Glock armor you can still take some of that information and use it to understand and figure out how a Smith& Wesson m&p works or the Ruger SR. Line how it works. Like I said, there's going to be some differences but again you can learn how others work so you can specialize in one, but that knowledge can be used to identify how others work
I used to work for John Martz Luger carbine maker from Lincoln, CA in the 1970s and 1980s and never had to have a firearms licence to have his Luger carbines for as long as two or three weeks while I made stocks, grips and magazine bases. I also made parts and flat springs. Now I think it could be problematic here in California. Nice mill and lathe. Excellent presentation.
Unfortunately, it's federal law now that any gun that stays overnight with a gunsmith must be logged in and out of the gunsmith's permanent record (bound book).
In South Africa maybe fourty years ago I had a load of guns.I also had a friend who was a gunsmith and he always used to say:I go to him with a problem,and then I tell him how to fix it.But we were always good mates.Eventually I bought a load of handtools from Brownells over a period of time and with knowledge gleaned over the years I would work on my and my friends guns.But of course could only do so much due to the lack of certain toools.but this came about because even then in South Africa good trained gunsmiths were hard to find,and when you found one they were always months behind.So if you needed your carry gun worked on and you had to leave it with the smith.You would be defenceless unless you had another piece to carry.
Great information. I took the plunge into DIY gunsmithing just for my own guns. My area of focus is doing "full race jobs" on SAAs in the tradition of Bob Munden. I bought a hobby milling machine, stones and files, a bench grinder as well as a bunch of small shop tools. I find I need a lathe frequently and will get one sooner or later. Of course it would have been a lot less expensive and quicker even with long wait times to have a gunsmith build me a race gun. For me the fun is just discovering how to properly do the operations I want. Every time I do something repeatedly I get better at it and I've ruined some cylinders and other parts in the process, but they're all mine so I don't feel too bad. Recently, I finished converting an Italian Clone into my first crude SAA race gun. The machined areas are a bit ugly but it runs great. I can fan it hard and it indexes properly every time. Eventually I'll get one that run greats and looks great. The fun is in the journey.
Thanks for your help
Thanks Mark 😀😊👍🏼 Excellent Advice 👍🏼
Thanks Mark. Appreciate everything you do and share.
You're quite welcome!
Outstanding!!
I want to start of and say this is one of my favorite channels i love lever guns and revolvers i have been thinking for some time of becoming a gunsmith because i enjoy working on mine so much this video got me thinking harder on that again
Best of luck if you decide to pursue it.
I really enjoyed your presentation, lots of good info for those interested in entering the trade. Myself I have just retired from 40 plus years as a professional gunsmith and have tried to encourage as many up and coming smiths as possible to get into the business. One piece of advise that was told to me many years ago from an old time tradesman when I was having doubts about my career choice was this, and I quote. " Men will always hunt, men will always have guns" These words stuck with me and looking back over my shoulder it all worked out. I was never out of work and I always managed to make enough $$$ to keep the wolf away from the door, raise a family, and keep the banker happy. Fortunate are the people who can combine their passion with their Job, it's not all about money. It's about contentment. For what it's worth, that's my philosophy. Cheers D.H.
Thanks a bunch, David! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
Wish I had the eyesight to still smith and the energy of my youth to work the ranch now Oregon has the same kind of environment in places as my old stomping grounds of Wyoming. Still have a lot of builds floating around in this old mountain man head
We spend time in Wyoming every summer. May have to seriously consider moving there if the craziness in Oregon continues. Thanks for watching!
Great video. I took a boatload of NRA summer classes and they helped a lot. Even though I spent a lot of time in the machine shop at the classes and welding I’d still like to go to school for these 2 disciples. I did apprentice for about 3 weeks with an extremely gifted builder of Jager rifles, but he had an aneurism and that was the end of that. It unfortunately killed him.
I would LOVE to see a video on getting a business license as a sole propertor or LLC and what needs to be done to get that. I realize that it varies by region, I live in rural tennessee so it shouldn’t be that difficult , but the SBA has been about as helpful as a course in biology would be to the trade.
Hey I never got my tour, thanks Mark. Oh and I may have some more work for you in spring. We will see. Merry christmas
I watched you make a V spring, harden and temper it. That's all the information that I need to know that you're a good gunsmith Mark.
Lol, I've been sitting on the fence thinking about smithing for the last few years. I've been tinkering on my own toys and tools for several decades. I've always tinkered with everything. Luckily, I'm mechanically inclined. In spite of this, I had always been in a sales management environment. I've done mechanical work as a hobby or necessity all my life. I figured since I love airplanes, I could get paid decently as an A&P mechanic. I went to school and got my license. That was roughly 8 years ago. Figured out aircraft work is more of a young mans game... I love guns, too, so I figured I'd check out SDI. I didn't like what I saw. They seem to treat everyone the same without regard for their current knowledge or experience. I've taken care of my own guns since I was in grade school. I've always enjoyed tinkering with them... it's a very satisfying type of fun. Old revolvers and lever guns are a wonderful choice to specialize in. I'm still an A&P, but I'm likely to make a change if the conditions are right. I can handle smithing. I've always enjoyed working on my own projects. Doing them myself is how I've justified collecting my own tools.
Im not a trained smith.
What most likely would have taken a trained/experenced gunsmith a couple days to figure out, took me from 2016 to 2019 to rectify.
It all started as a .22 rifle left in my maintenance office one day.
I waked into my Arctic Alaska office and there sat a Rem 552 missing the sights.
I circled round the problem since day one.
Boogered up chamber that resulted in excessive headspace.
I taken to calling that rifle the dud maker.
Itd tink the case rim enuf to not fire the round.
Thank You for sharing your knowledge and I hope the western US gets a good snow pack this year, we could sure use it.
They say if you are doing what you love it's not work. I found that as an electronic technician. I just loved fixing things. It was a great fit.
I really appreciate your advice and your willingness to share.
I’ve just begun my gun smithing journey last year, my current trade is seasonal so I enrolled in an online program and so far it’s been a good place to get my feet wet, however I realized right away that I need to get some hands on machining courses to really start to work towards what I want to do.
I’m only doing small jobs and can only do a few things due to my workspace and regulation but I make it point to be extremely proficient in those small jobs. I’ve had to turn down work, which is tough but I’d much rather have iron be in more experienced hands then mine.
Ive tried to diverse a little bit and become more involved with the local range and sporting community, I help spot those getting rifles and handguns sighted in for new and regular shooters, it’s helped build a customer base, familiarity and provide work.
Thank you for your content.
It sounds like you have a solid plan. Best of luck to you!
Finding a good gunsmith in my area is near on impossible. I spent quite a bit of time just looking for someone to put new sights and trigger spring on a modern pistol and revolver. We certainly need more experienced gun smiths.
There is a definite lack of gunsmiths in many areas. On top of that, UPS and FEDEX are making it much harder to ship guns to gunsmiths if you find one who's not in your area.
Thank You ! I am glad I have run across your channel , it is always good to see someone willing to teach what they know and better yet to have someone HONEST as a teacher, generally most of us can tell a mans character by the way he handles himself in action and conversation, I can tell you are an Honest human being and take pride in the things you do. thanks again
Thanks very much, Scott! I appreciate the vote of confidence.
Wish I'd started when I was younger. Couldn't afford them. I love em. Was raised on Roy Rogers, etc. I'm like you. Love lever and single action. Gotten a little old to start over. I'm afraid.love watching you and Mark Novak. Thanks
I wanted to become a gunsmith as my retirement. I found the schools for learning it not completely being truthful on the total cost in the schooling. Then looking into the licensing for it and it’s not completely truthful on getting all the cost let alone all the forms needed.
We are a year to a year and a half out. Good vid Mark. Well explained
You're doing some great work, Bill!
THANK YOU SIR FOR THE GREAT RIDE
very good video. Thank you for sharing your experience. I started my gunsmith hobby a couple of years after I retired. I have found Midway USA to be very helpful with teaching videos. The community college info was right on target for metal work.
Another problem with gunsmithing is everyone wants you to tell them how to fix it their self and the rest don't want to pay anything to have work done I know of a few so called smiths that think that they are smiths and all they can do is take certain guns apart and clean them and reassemble anyone with a bit of common sense and mechanical abilities can do that
Oh my goodness, yes! One of the drawbacks of having this channel is the shear volume of people calling or writing and wanting my advice on how to fix their firearms. I'm going to have to make a video addressing this topic and hope it slows it down.
@@thecinnabar8442 I took some courses in gunsmithing and even apprenticed with a what I would consider a full service gunsmith we did hot rebluing stockmaking rebarreling custom build a rifle if a customer wanted one action work as well as repairs and I know exactly what you go through and I believe we're both on the same side of this fence I got so frustrated with it I left in disgust and said I'd never have anything to do with it again and this had been a lifelong dream to be a gunsmith don't fool with it much anymore as I'm almost 60 but still dabble a little bit on my own out of my house
Thank you for sharing and telling us the bad along with the good. Great Job!! 🙂👍☕
It's quite a pleasure to have come across this video and your channel - I really do find your videos to be both enjoyable and informative.
Thank-you!!
Thanks a bunch, Luke! Welcome aboard!
Very informative presentation, Mark. Thank you.
Interesting video. Sometimes the old timers can't really relate what beginners go through today and therefore your story is valuable I believe. And yes, that Cinnabar fella makes some darn good videos!
Thanks a bunch, Rick!
Thanks for the information in my younger years I wanted to be a gunsmith but I took a different path but it’s always interesting to learn new things and hear the experiences of others. Merry Christmas
Enjoy your videos. I just tinker with smithing, but its fun.
Good video! By serving an apprenticeship is how I and (Karsh) learned wedding and portrait photography! It was very tough at times but I didn't have $40,000. to spend at Brooks in Santa Barbara. Thanks for passing your info along to everyone. Often times I had unemployed Brooks graduates as how did you do it?
Hey Mark, love your content. Cheers from Australia. Steve.
Great info thanks for the video. 👍
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching.
I’m going the AGI way. I’m actually at a point where I need to start making money at it, even if it’s just cleaning guns, or I’m going to loose interests.
I looked into being a glock armor, but being a civilian there really aren't any classes available. Leo and military only. I know that's not really gunsmithing, but it's a start.
I believe AGI has a Glock armorers' course if you'd like to go that route.
Sign up for GSSF and find a local class.
This is one of the reasons why I started my channel. ….. I am trying to create a business that is a one stop shop for cowboy action shooters
Sounds great! Best of luck to you!
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you. Your work on your channel inspires me
Would like to be like you when I grow up, but I've already grown up.
I was an "old-timer" when I started.
I am a tinker with my own firearms I have been self teaching and have learned about colt single action army revolver’s and got the book on working on them also bought the barrel Vice and the Marilyn gun rench for working on them I would like to get hot blueing outfit and be able to color case hardening get a kill I would like to get a few action renches for lever action and bolt action guns but first I am going to have to get another building built
I was on the AGI site yesterday and saw they have cowboy action shooting armors course (I am interested in)Is this the online course by chance you took? NRA summer course in my area are no where to be found. As for machine shop courses in my area I can only find CNC course about 3hrs away, so I have been having to teach myself machining from you tube. The last gunsmith in a 100miles in my area had a stroke a couple years ago so I am out in that area. I have bought pawn shop broken guns on purpose for cheap just to fix, fixed 2 of the three and fixed all but one of my Granddaddies pre-1900 Marlins.
I have to ask as why you would go with an used American lathe rather than the Grizzly? Keep up the good videos!
I have both a used American lathe and a brand new Grizzly. They both have their plusses and minuses. There are certain things I choose one over the other for and use them both regularly. Most machinists I know prefer the quality of the older American lathes and I'd have to agree as long as they're not worn out from use.
I would really like to become a gunsmith. I have been doing security for a few years. Im fairly young. Im 24 and i have a wife and kids. So my biggest concern in pay. It doesnt make sense to me why they get paid so little if they are in such high demand. I would have to drop thousands on an education and i would be making less than what i already make as a security guard.
Where are the snow shoes?
Apprenticeships have been dying going away for probably two to three. Maybe four decades now and there's a few reasons for that. One lack of interest. The increased massively increased cost to the shop or the person who offers the apprenticeship and the fact that your responsible for everything you're apprentice does good bad indifferent your responsible for it and you're not just responsible for it. While you're supervising them, you're responsible for it. Even when they're not. You know watching your you're not just watching them and a lot of times that can get to be very costly. You used to be able to find apprenticeships everywhere and it was far more desirable to have an apprenticeship than it was to go to school someplace because it just was better education and they're just going away in favor of schools and you just don't learn the same thing in a school. There's absolutely no way to learn the same thing in a school that you can and apprenticeship because you get hands on in real world situations. Real world jobs where in schools the best they can do is a lab project. Even if they bring something in oftentimes it's handpicked by the instructor to not be as hard or overly challenging cuz not only are they supposed to teach you, they're also supposed to keep you interested and not just leave halfway through the class because that's rather you know it's not good I've seen a few shops that have a friendships. Have a few and some of them have long waiting list for apprentice positions but it is definitely something that is going away
Repaired guns for 40years PART TME. Never saw a future in doing the work full time. Still don't UNLESS you want to become a small business custom MANUFACTURER.
Quite right. Unfortunately, any firearms manufacturing carries a whole new level of licensing, regulations and exceptional governmental fees.
I have some old gun parts some Winchester the 22 pump action on some pretty rough shape I'd like to give it that to you along with the quack and Bush and a whole bunch of other things if you're interested drop me a message on we'll see what I can do to ship those to you I hate them just sit here and go to waste maybe you can do some of the parts for something
Thanks Rick! Our e-mail and shipping addresses can be found on our website: www.cinnabargunworks.com.
If am rich enough I will take 1 year leave and will be your apprentice to learn these skills
95% of gunsmithing is problem solving.
I want a 7000 acher ranch 🥲