Today I had a batch of Fiberglass resin blow up, burn my leg, and create a big smoke. I think I put too much hardener in it. Be careful everyone... I was lucky, angels were watching over me, it didn't fly in my face, but on my leg. I ran to the grass and fell quickly down to rub it off my leg as I was removing my plastic gloves that were burning my fingers...I'm still in shock, 3 hours later.
Just the other day, a coworker was telling me he had a batch of resin combust while trying to rush a repair project. Of course, he used too much catalyst, in an attempt to speed things up, AND he was working in the hot South Florida sun. Not sure what kind of container he was using, or other details, but I believe he said his layup actually burst into flames. Must have been a mess to cleanup! While I've been a boater on and off almost my whole life, I have FINALLY come to own a boat myself, along with all the work that comes with it! It's a labor of love though, and your videos are a TREMENDOUS help! I'm a handy person, but the skills and techniques involved in fiberglass work are foreign to me, and your videos take away much of the mystery. As I'm sure is the case with many people, I could not afford to own the boat I'd like, without being able to do most of the work on it myself. Thank you, and keep up the great work! P.S. I've been watching many of your videos, and aside from being informative and helpful, I think you do a great job producing them! I've played with video editing, as an amateur, and I know how much work can go into this stuff. Don't know if you have any formal video training, but you pull it off very well!
Great video as always Andy!!!,was so interesting to hear your views on this subject , I too had heard many stories over the years of resin catching fire!!!! but like you they were only stories ,i have never actually met anyone who has had a fire!! thanks again for All your wisdom and knowledge you pass on to us all
I used to work in development in a grp factory that made grp pipes for the gas industry. As part of the testing process we used to incinerate the pipes to see how they would hold up in a fire testing various grp mixes. It is extremely difficult to set fire to requiring abnormal temps but it does eventually burn off leaving just bare glass fibres.
Great video! Just to add my experience for reference, I work in a modern motor yacht production facility in the UK. We use a polyester based resin for almost all work. I work in hulls that range from 52-78 foot in length and we lay these hulls up using manually mixed buckets of both gel coat and resin (for the skin coat anyway, most structure comes later via infused mat and core material). These buckets have a 10 litre capacity and are catalysed at 2%, because of their volume we will see heat that deforms the bucket within several minutes if it is just left to sit. I have never seen a bucket spontaneously combust but smoking and spitting buckets have occurred. However, the chemical waste containers outside of our facility where we take any excess material that has been catalysed for safe disposal, has caught fire a few times over the past few years. This has almost always been due to heat rising out of the container and causing the shelter above to melt and then combust. We are however talking about a volume larger than 10 litres.
Hi Andy. Love your videos. This one especially because I am a Certified Marine Investigator and Certified Fire Investigator. In a training exercise, We attempted to get epoxy resin to ignite. It smoked and got very hot but did not spontaneously combust. It did, however, ignite rapidly and readily when we added a spark from a welding torch igniter. Anyway, keep the videos coming! Have been involved with boats and boating all my life and really enjoy watching a professional, and more importantly, someone who loves and takes pride in their work.
I just stumbled on this old video and thought I'd share...I couldn't tell you the mix ratio; however, when I was growing up in the Chicago area, my father owned a small boat & fiberglass shop I used to hang out and occasionally work at. His main glass guy set a cup of excess material (If I remember correctly it was polyester gelcoat, not resin, but same idea) down on his work bench and went on break. It caught fire, and fortunately was close enough to an air hose that it burned through and got everyone's attention before the fire took out the whole building; or boat and mold that he was laying up, but it was one heck of an experience! I would always recommend setting any cups with excess material on concrete away from anything flammable until they've kicked and cooled. For anyone unfamiliar with working with composites, Don't EVER thrown a cup with uncured catalyzed material in a trash can, that is just asking for a disaster.
Worked at JTB in Rice Lake. We used paper cups of that size to mix in using a 1oz pump for the harder (DDM9) & a wax resin. Someone in my dept. decided to run two full pumps which is crazy stupid hot & let it sit after use - I could smell the hot resin as it started to smoke. By the time I walked 30' outside it did start on fire.
Two comments Andy. 1. I am not surprised that your small batch didn't get very hot. I have found that the shape of the container and what the container is made from matter. a flat tray of resin doesn't get as hot as your one quart cup.Metal is also better to dissipate heat. Furthermore, when laying up hulls I have used multi-gallon batches with no trouble other than them getting a bit gummy toward the end of a batch if you don't work fast enough or it is hot (>80F) in the shop. To speed things up we generally applied resin with a paint roller rather than a brush. 2. I was disappointed that you didn't mention the big, apparently brand new, green toy in your shop.
Ha :-) It's not new, just have made a point to keep it out of sight :-) But with the teak deck coming this week I need to have it at the shop for unloading from the semi! Enjoyed your last video! Good job!!
Another Great Video, I have 2 questions What is the name of the hardener measuring bottle that u use in this video? I've been trying to find that measuring bottle. But its hard when I dont know the name lol. Second, What was the size of the cup too? Thanks for the great info As I am restoring my boat right now and I have some fiberglassing to do. Thanks again. Ive watched almost all your videos
If you cast a solid chunk like that of gelcoat without fiberglass, would it be stronger than resin. Thed reason I ask is I was wanting to make a block mold and gelcoat seems to be about the cheapest. I found a gallon for 39.00
I have a friend who´s had a resin bucket fire. Not with polyester thou but with vinylester. This industrial type resin is non-accelerated resin so the mixing procedure is to first accelerate the resin with a cobalt solution and then adding the initiator (typically MEKP). When mixing the resin/accelerator too hot and then also adding an excessive amount of initiator, the exothermal reaction could start fire. One of the most popular types of vinyl ester resin has a flash point at 29,4°C. Maybe something to try? :-) Love your videos, great job! Regards /Kenny from Sweden (polymeric materials researcher and boat nerd)
In your Canon camera there is a function called Face-ID where you can save your face picture from different angles. The camera will then sharpen on the the face it recognizes and not get blurred film when you are filming yourself.
If you do one of those again, you could drill a hole in the bottom of the hardened resin and put a light in the hole. That would be a neat night light.
I have smoked some resin while fabricating industrial FG piping, what I was always told was, the fumes were flamables, not that it will spontaneity combust. But I have a related fire story to share with you all: In 1993, while working on proyecto, a younger coworker used a rag to clean MEKP he had spilled on a metal work bench, but the rag had previously been used to clean the clorine acid residues of tanker truck. As he swept twice the rag got instantaneously on fire. We were later told the mixing of the two susptances and rubbing action on the bench top or any other small heat source will end up in a fire. He had not mayor enjuries, and we all learned a lesson.
Anyone want to clue me in on working time I would have with a catalyzed resin in ambient air temperatures in the low 90s? I’d be adding 1.25% MEKP. It’s been rather hot and nasty lately up here.
I'm shocked it didnt even smoke. I remember when I was about 12 y/o mixing a quart of resin with a TON of cataylist, it started boiling and became a chemical smoke machine for about 5 minutes. It was pretty cool learning lesson lol
Hi Andy, I was unfortunate enough to waste a 25 litre 2% batch in 28DegC (due to an accident on site), given it was mixed in a steel drum (as supplied) It got incredibly hot as one can imagine, but I dont remember seeing it smoking. We had to source a new batch and a new paddle as our snapped whilst trying to smash the cured resin off the old one..... We finished the roof eventually, but we were all late home that night :(
Hey Andy, I work a lot with epoxy, and i KNOW it gets very hot, smokes, melts the container, etc.... i also know its expensive. what say you try that same experiment later in the year, say july when its 85 or so out side.... I'd like to see what happens then. i have thrown more than one pot of resin in the water just because... take care .. love your videos
I work in a aircraft composite shop and we have done that experiment with epoxy. A lot depends on the cure time of the resin as well as ambient air temp. I've seen it smoke and crackle. No fires though. Does get hot enough to burn you. And the fumes are toxic.
Yup, that little cup stunk up the entire shop for a day! Typically I wear a respirator but the audio isn't too good in video when I do that :-/.. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I also used to work in a building with a composite shop in it. The guys would be mixing Resin, Catalyst and Accelerator. Get those ratios wrong or in the wrong order and the reaction is almost instant with a huge amount of heat, smoke and lot of crackling (loud). Every couple of months someone would come running out of the shop with a container (Metal) of this stuff going off like Vesuvius. Health and Safety wasn’t a big issue back then, although they did have masks and huge fire resistant gloves.
I worked in a shop where a hot pot started a fire. Like any kind of accident, it took a chain of things going wrong but it was clearly evident that the resin was where the 'spark' came from. The glassers put the leftover pot in the 'fire cabinet' to kick off and went home for the night. Somehow a fire started inside the cabinet (where there aren't supposed to be any combustibles stored) and burned hot enough to ignite doorskin templates hanging on the wall behind them - not the best idea in hindsight :) Once that happened, it was a normal fire. It damaged a couple molds, then the sprinklers kicked in. We spent a month repairing or replacing damaged tooling. Now, uncured resin always get set on concrete - not only is concrete not combustible, it sinks the heat out of the pot. Putting a bit of water on top of the resin in the pot does that too: it can get hot enough to boil the water. The problem as I see it is when you don't give it any way for the heat to dissipate and you get an exothermic runaway.
Ive seen it happen at a composite factory that builds massive tank and filtration units. Some one mixed a batch of hotcoat with alot of airdry wax. Walked away and it went up in flames in a wax bucket it was mixed in.It was on a table covered with news paper under a mould. Everybody ran but me. I grabbed an extuingsher and got it out before the plant burnt down. It can happen!
It would. Typically the mixture is altered depending on the air temp. Hot days I usually use closer to 1% but cold days are closer to 2%. So a 2% mix on a hot day would definitely melt some cups! Don't like going over 2% in any situation though...
So after this project is complete and if you have resin left make a very small batch and try mixing like 5% or something stupid and see if it will just melt cups and make a mess or will it actually spontaneously combust, that might be where the stories come from when people say it happened from incorrect measurements but don't try a batch like you just did, a tea spoon full should be definitive lol. Don't need to burn down your shop
well today i tackled my first large job well large for me lol, well to cut a long story short i had a run away reaction with the epoxy resin, first thing was the roller smoking like crazy, then the cottage cheese epoxy in the poring pot within seconds smoke everywhere, in short it went a little wrong, though i managed to save the job i think i'll find out tomorrow :-( a hot day and epoxy DO NOT MIX WELL!, thanks to watching your vids i may of saved my project. thanks andy
I wish there was one.. The Rhodes project is a personal project (aka, non-paying job) and this has been an extremely busy Winter. Haven't been able to even touch it which is disappointing as I was hoping to be able to sail it this Summer!!! But, I will get to it :-)
Ive done this by mistake, with about that amount before. I poured two cups like that, and catalyzed one to start and had the second waiting in reserve with no catalyst... And picked up the UNcatalyzed one and started to work on my material... Whoops. But, my cup did melt (was kind of warm out).
It comes down to cost and what the engineering requirements are. Poly is the cheapest, vinyl ester is great for corrosion resistance and is strong enough for mold and pattern making, epoxy is much more expensive, in general, and is stronger thus used with carbon fiber or high strength fiber reinforcement. You also have tons of blended resins in manufacturing. Cost and use are the most determining factors.
I've seen very violent reactions from epoxy. No fire but there was plenty of brimstone, it looked biblical! Btw, it was about 1.5 gallons left over from a much larger batch.
Great video as always! Have you done any strength tests comparing polyester and epoxy resin on CSM? I have a whole bunch of poly, epoxy, CSM, and 1708, but I genuinely don't know what to use and where. So much conflicting info out there. Then the old salts tell me something completely different :) Cheers!
I have not done a video on that yet, but am more than happy to help you to use the correct materials for the job :-) But for the record, CSM and epoxy really aren't the best combination. CSM uses a binder to hold the strands together which dissolves with styrene (thinner used in polyester and vinylester resins) making it very pliable and easy to work with. Epoxy does not have this.. But, epoxy is great with 1708, cloth and stitched fabrics!!
As a general rule, you can apply epoxy over poly any day of the week. BUT, poly on top of epoxy is typically considered a No-No.. There may be exceptions for small areas though depending on the epoxy used but it's best just to follow the rules :-)
Thank you! I should add that my previous comment is presuming that the poly layer is fully cured and sanded BEFORE going over top with epoxy. Cannot put epoxy over top of wet / un-cured poly :-) Just wanted to make that clear
A neighbor of mine lost their house to a fire started by saw dust and uncured polyurethane finish. He had installed new hardwood floors and after applying the finish he decided he didn't like the final product. He then spent a couple of days sanding off the newly applied polyurethane and sweeping everything up and putting in a trash bag. He had finished late at night and left the bag of sanding dust in the kitchen which self ignited later that night. The fire inspector said it wasn't the first time he had seen this happen.
I have charged 5Qt buckets of resin and it has not cought fire. When disposing of old resin, we sometimes charge batches of 40-100 lbs (5-12 Gal). I'm not saying it is a good idea to charge unnecessary amounts of resin, but the risk is minimal. The best way to mitigate risk with excess resin is to put it in a wide container to let it spread out and dissipate the heat. The cracking you noticed is caused by low strength and high internal stress. As the resin cures it shrinks, and the hotter it gets during the initial cure the more shrinkage occurs. The "puck" you made literally shrank so much that it broke itself to release pressure. without any glass content there was nothing to hold itself together.
I worked at Grady White Boats from 203-08. as a Spray Equipment Technician. We used poly resin for production layup. Being in the South we spend a lot of Summer in extream heat. Most fire I experienced were caused by wet glass thrown in a trash can. I have seen a Chopper gun overspray a mold set for a pull and set off an arc fire from static. MEKP Catalyst designed for a quick cure is very dangerous. I have never seen a container of just catalyzed resin just spontaneously burst into flames unless they were in direct heat transforming contact with a combustible material. In wet form the most dangerous material fiberglass MFG is MEKP. It is UNGODLY FLAMABLE, highly caustic, and doe's not taste very well. A Close second is Isociante . The catalyst side of Plural component flotation foam. If you become allergic to it you will become Fred Flinstone. Cars, Beds, furniture, or anything else made of foam will be out of your life!! In the event waste resin begins to smoke add water. It stops the reaction. If you add Plural component foam to a cavity and it begins to smoke DO NOT try and pull it out. It just gives it air. I don't know what blend of resin you used. Our "Winter Blend" polyresin catalyzed with 1.75% of MEKP would "GEL" in 10 min. and would be completely "Kicked Off" solid in 15 min. Please be safe. Eye, Ear, and Respitory ( When using power tools on glass or mixing fillers) protection is wise.
To those concerned about fire, explain why the very large batches used in resin infusion processes don't catch fire. It also gets very warm in parts of the world were these processes are used.
If your batch didn't get above 288°F it couldn't even flash paper as its flash point is 451°F. So, while yes, it will boil water, engineers have long known that it's not possible for it to reach flash temperature. I wasn't even aware that there was a myth regarding this. Although I do love ghost stories and myths.
Older video, but I cringed to see such a waste of resin. Especially when I was needing that amount recently and had to order another gallon. Oh the pain, the pain... lol
I'm a retired collision repair/refinish master technician and instructor. Add enough peroxide to that resin, IT WILL COMBUST! I've seen it countless times in winter when a tech tried to speed up the process with extra catalyst (hardener). I used to make small amounts combust to demonstrate the danger to my students. Soak some matt or cloth with that over catalyzed resin if you really want a fire! Be careful with polyester and epoxy resins! I once saw a young guy add extra hardener to leftover resin in a jar. He screwed the lid on and placed it in a field about 200 feet from the shop, a metal building. When it exploded, mayonnaise jar lid, right through the metal wall! I've seen it with matt, over catalyized, go up in flames and literally jump right off of the surface it was applied to.
Boatworks Today meets Mythbusters ... love it!
Today I had a batch of Fiberglass resin blow up, burn my leg, and create a big smoke. I think I put too much
hardener in it. Be careful everyone... I was lucky, angels were watching over me, it didn't fly in my face, but on my leg.
I ran to the grass and fell quickly down to rub it off my leg as I was removing my plastic gloves that were burning my fingers...I'm still in shock, 3 hours later.
Just the other day, a coworker was telling me he had a batch of resin combust while trying to rush a repair project. Of course, he used too much catalyst, in an attempt to speed things up, AND he was working in the hot South Florida sun. Not sure what kind of container he was using, or other details, but I believe he said his layup actually burst into flames. Must have been a mess to cleanup!
While I've been a boater on and off almost my whole life, I have FINALLY come to own a boat myself, along with all the work that comes with it! It's a labor of love though, and your videos are a TREMENDOUS help! I'm a handy person, but the skills and techniques involved in fiberglass work are foreign to me, and your videos take away much of the mystery. As I'm sure is the case with many people, I could not afford to own the boat I'd like, without being able to do most of the work on it myself.
Thank you, and keep up the great work!
P.S. I've been watching many of your videos, and aside from being informative and helpful, I think you do a great job producing them! I've played with video editing, as an amateur, and I know how much work can go into this stuff. Don't know if you have any formal video training, but you pull it off very well!
Great video as always Andy!!!,was so interesting to hear your views on this subject , I too had heard many stories over the years of resin catching fire!!!! but like you they were only stories ,i have never actually met anyone who has had a fire!! thanks again for All your wisdom and knowledge you pass on to us all
Your experiment was a success. You showed that ambient temperature and volume of mixture has an effect on heat production. Nice video.
I used to work in development in a grp factory that made grp pipes for the gas industry. As part of the testing process we used to incinerate the pipes to see how they would hold up in a fire testing various grp mixes. It is extremely difficult to set fire to requiring abnormal temps but it does eventually burn off leaving just bare glass fibres.
Great video!
Just to add my experience for reference, I work in a modern motor yacht production facility in the UK. We use a polyester based resin for almost all work. I work in hulls that range from 52-78 foot in length and we lay these hulls up using manually mixed buckets of both gel coat and resin (for the skin coat anyway, most structure comes later via infused mat and core material). These buckets have a 10 litre capacity and are catalysed at 2%, because of their volume we will see heat that deforms the bucket within several minutes if it is just left to sit. I have never seen a bucket spontaneously combust but smoking and spitting buckets have occurred.
However, the chemical waste containers outside of our facility where we take any excess material that has been catalysed for safe disposal, has caught fire a few times over the past few years. This has almost always been due to heat rising out of the container and causing the shelter above to melt and then combust. We are however talking about a volume larger than 10 litres.
subbed. amazing content! I want to get an old boat and fix it up!
The MSDS for product will tell you what it's ignition temp is
What is the best way to fix small screw holes in the gelcoat in my bass boat?
i once kicked a pint with a broken dropper that spilled in about a ounce. i mixed it to see what happens and it got really smokey but didnt ignite
Andy, you're such a boat geek - LOL
Love your videos, your tips have helped me with my boat. Where are you located out of?
Hi Andy. Love your videos. This one especially because I am a Certified Marine Investigator and Certified Fire Investigator. In a training exercise, We attempted to get epoxy resin to ignite. It smoked and got very hot but did not spontaneously combust. It did, however, ignite rapidly and readily when we added a spark from a welding torch igniter. Anyway, keep the videos coming! Have been involved with boats and boating all my life and really enjoy watching a professional, and more importantly, someone who loves and takes pride in their work.
Vine Len Isnt epoxy resin and hardener both flammable? As well as both polyester resin and MEKP?
a good lesson thanks
I just stumbled on this old video and thought I'd share...I couldn't tell you the mix ratio; however, when I was growing up in the Chicago area, my father owned a small boat & fiberglass shop I used to hang out and occasionally work at. His main glass guy set a cup of excess material (If I remember correctly it was polyester gelcoat, not resin, but same idea) down on his work bench and went on break. It caught fire, and fortunately was close enough to an air hose that it burned through and got everyone's attention before the fire took out the whole building; or boat and mold that he was laying up, but it was one heck of an experience! I would always recommend setting any cups with excess material on concrete away from anything flammable until they've kicked and cooled. For anyone unfamiliar with working with composites, Don't EVER thrown a cup with uncured catalyzed material in a trash can, that is just asking for a disaster.
Worked at JTB in Rice Lake. We used paper cups of that size to mix in using a 1oz pump for the harder (DDM9) & a wax resin. Someone in my dept. decided to run two full pumps which is crazy stupid hot & let it sit after use - I could smell the hot resin as it started to smoke. By the time I walked 30' outside it did start on fire.
Nice, always wondered
Two comments Andy.
1. I am not surprised that your small batch didn't get very hot. I have found that the shape of the container and what the container is made from matter. a flat tray of resin doesn't get as hot as your one quart cup.Metal is also better to dissipate heat. Furthermore, when laying up hulls I have used multi-gallon batches with no trouble other than them getting a bit gummy toward the end of a batch if you don't work fast enough or it is hot (>80F) in the shop. To speed things up we generally applied resin with a paint roller rather than a brush.
2. I was disappointed that you didn't mention the big, apparently brand new, green toy in your shop.
Ha :-) It's not new, just have made a point to keep it out of sight :-) But with the teak deck coming this week I need to have it at the shop for unloading from the semi! Enjoyed your last video! Good job!!
Measuring in both ounces and cc's seems madness :)
Another Great Video,
I have 2 questions
What is the name of the hardener measuring bottle that u use in this video?
I've been trying to find that measuring bottle. But its hard when I dont know the name lol. Second, What was the size of the cup too?
Thanks for the great info
As I am restoring my boat right now and I have some fiberglassing to do. Thanks again. Ive watched almost all your videos
If you cast a solid chunk like that of gelcoat without fiberglass, would it be stronger than resin. Thed reason I ask is I was wanting to make a block mold and gelcoat seems to be about the cheapest. I found a gallon for 39.00
I have a friend who´s had a resin bucket fire. Not with polyester thou but with vinylester. This industrial type resin is non-accelerated resin so the mixing procedure is to first accelerate the resin with a cobalt solution and then adding the initiator (typically MEKP). When mixing the resin/accelerator too hot and then also adding an excessive amount of initiator, the exothermal reaction could start fire. One of the most popular types of vinyl ester resin has a flash point at 29,4°C.
Maybe something to try? :-)
Love your videos, great job!
Regards
/Kenny from Sweden (polymeric materials researcher and boat nerd)
Tried making a mould following the method to fix non skid patterns, 4 coats of pva and the gel cost has stuck to the non skid pattern. Can I remove
In your Canon camera there is a function called Face-ID where you can save your face picture from different angles. The camera will then sharpen on the the face it recognizes and not get blurred film when you are filming yourself.
If you do one of those again, you could drill a hole in the bottom of the hardened resin and put a light in the hole. That would be a neat night light.
I have smoked some resin while fabricating industrial FG piping, what I was always told was, the fumes were flamables, not that it will spontaneity combust.
But I have a related fire story to share with you all:
In 1993, while working on proyecto, a younger coworker used a rag to clean MEKP he had spilled on a metal work bench, but the rag had previously been used to clean the clorine acid residues of tanker truck. As he swept twice the rag got instantaneously on fire. We were later told the mixing of the two susptances and rubbing action on the bench top or any other small heat source will end up in a fire.
He had not mayor enjuries, and we all learned a lesson.
Anyone want to clue me in on working time I would have with a catalyzed resin in ambient air temperatures in the low 90s? I’d be adding 1.25% MEKP. It’s been rather hot and nasty lately up here.
After it harden, Why did you try using a propane torch to see if it would of ignite
What would have happened had you mixed them with a higher percentage of hardener? say 4 or 5 % rather than 2 %
I'm shocked it didnt even smoke. I remember when I was about 12 y/o mixing a quart of resin with a TON of cataylist, it started boiling and became a chemical smoke machine for about 5 minutes. It was pretty cool learning lesson lol
ive seen resin and cat make smoke in a scrap chop pile but i work in a chop room and we have to remove in from building by the time we see or smell it
Hi Andy, I was unfortunate enough to waste a 25 litre 2% batch in 28DegC (due to an accident on site), given it was mixed in a steel drum (as supplied)
It got incredibly hot as one can imagine, but I dont remember seeing it smoking. We had to source a new batch and a new paddle as our snapped whilst trying to smash the cured resin off the old one.....
We finished the roof eventually, but we were all late home that night :(
Hey Andy, I work a lot with epoxy, and i KNOW it gets very hot, smokes, melts the container, etc.... i also know its expensive. what say you try that same experiment later in the year, say july when its 85 or so out side.... I'd like to see what happens then.
i have thrown more than one pot of resin in the water just because... take care .. love your videos
You know I have to try it!!!
I work in a aircraft composite shop and we have done that experiment with epoxy. A lot depends on the cure time of the resin as well as ambient air temp. I've seen it smoke and crackle. No fires though. Does get hot enough to burn you. And the fumes are toxic.
Yup, that little cup stunk up the entire shop for a day! Typically I wear a respirator but the audio isn't too good in video when I do that :-/.. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I also used to work in a building with a composite shop in
it. The guys would be mixing Resin, Catalyst and Accelerator. Get those ratios
wrong or in the wrong order and the reaction is almost instant with a huge amount
of heat, smoke and lot of crackling (loud).
Every couple of months someone would come running out of the
shop with a container (Metal) of this stuff going off like Vesuvius. Health and
Safety wasn’t a big issue back then, although they did have masks and huge fire
resistant gloves.
I worked in a shop where a hot pot started a fire. Like any kind of accident, it took a chain of things going wrong but it was clearly evident that the resin was where the 'spark' came from.
The glassers put the leftover pot in the 'fire cabinet' to kick off and went home for the night. Somehow a fire started inside the cabinet (where there aren't supposed to be any combustibles stored) and burned hot enough to ignite doorskin templates hanging on the wall behind them - not the best idea in hindsight :)
Once that happened, it was a normal fire. It damaged a couple molds, then the sprinklers kicked in. We spent a month repairing or replacing damaged tooling. Now, uncured resin always get set on concrete - not only is concrete not combustible, it sinks the heat out of the pot.
Putting a bit of water on top of the resin in the pot does that too: it can get hot enough to boil the water. The problem as I see it is when you don't give it any way for the heat to dissipate and you get an exothermic runaway.
Ive seen it happen at a composite factory that builds massive tank and filtration units. Some one mixed a batch of hotcoat with alot of airdry wax. Walked away and it went up in flames in a wax bucket it was mixed in.It was on a table covered with news paper under a mould. Everybody ran but me. I grabbed an extuingsher and got it out before the plant burnt down. It can happen!
Andy would changing the mixture give different results? Such as more or less than the 2%?
It would. Typically the mixture is altered depending on the air temp. Hot days I usually use closer to 1% but cold days are closer to 2%. So a 2% mix on a hot day would definitely melt some cups! Don't like going over 2% in any situation though...
So after this project is complete and if you have resin left make a very small batch and try mixing like 5% or something stupid and see if it will just melt cups and make a mess or will it actually spontaneously combust, that might be where the stories come from when people say it happened from incorrect measurements but don't try a batch like you just did, a tea spoon full should be definitive lol. Don't need to burn down your shop
10 oz of poly resin mixed at 2% in florida when it is 90 degrees will catch fire. ask me how I know. Love the channel
well today i tackled my first large job well large for me lol, well to cut a long story short i had a run away reaction with the epoxy resin, first thing was the roller smoking like crazy, then the cottage cheese epoxy in the poring pot within seconds smoke everywhere, in short it went a little wrong, though i managed to save the job i think i'll find out tomorrow :-( a hot day and epoxy DO NOT MIX WELL!, thanks to watching your vids i may of saved my project. thanks andy
unleash the exotherm!!!
How about an update on the Rhodes. Thanks
I wish there was one.. The Rhodes project is a personal project (aka, non-paying job) and this has been an extremely busy Winter. Haven't been able to even touch it which is disappointing as I was hoping to be able to sail it this Summer!!! But, I will get to it :-)
Ive done this by mistake, with about that amount before. I poured two cups like that, and catalyzed one to start and had the second waiting in reserve with no catalyst... And picked up the UNcatalyzed one and started to work on my material... Whoops. But, my cup did melt (was kind of warm out).
Ooohh... That can be a mess to clean up :-O !! Most likely it was the styrene that melted your cups :-/...
did the same thing. took me a while to figure out what happened.
I can for sure one of the first think they teacher u in stj cegep in vomposites
do you ever add cobalt to your resin ?
DMA would kick it off faster
what is the place to use poly resin, vinyl and epoxy? Does it just come down to cost and if gel will be used?
I'll be doing a video covering the different types of resin and when / where to use them this Summer :-)
Looking forward to that video. Hope you get back to posting soon!
It comes down to cost and what the engineering requirements are. Poly is the cheapest, vinyl ester is great for corrosion resistance and is strong enough for mold and pattern making, epoxy is much more expensive, in general, and is stronger thus used with carbon fiber or high strength fiber reinforcement. You also have tons of blended resins in manufacturing. Cost and use are the most determining factors.
I've seen very violent reactions from epoxy. No fire but there was plenty of brimstone, it looked biblical! Btw, it was about 1.5 gallons left over from a much larger batch.
Great video as always!
Have you done any strength tests comparing polyester and epoxy resin on CSM? I have a whole bunch of poly, epoxy, CSM, and 1708, but I genuinely don't know what to use and where. So much conflicting info out there. Then the old salts tell me something completely different :)
Cheers!
I have not done a video on that yet, but am more than happy to help you to use the correct materials for the job :-) But for the record, CSM and epoxy really aren't the best combination. CSM uses a binder to hold the strands together which dissolves with styrene (thinner used in polyester and vinylester resins) making it very pliable and easy to work with. Epoxy does not have this.. But, epoxy is great with 1708, cloth and stitched fabrics!!
Got it! And can you mix the two? For example on a deck, lay down a CSM layer with poly followed by a 1708 layer with epoxy? Still learning all this :)
As a general rule, you can apply epoxy over poly any day of the week. BUT, poly on top of epoxy is typically considered a No-No.. There may be exceptions for small areas though depending on the epoxy used but it's best just to follow the rules :-)
You're a legend! Looking forward to learning more. Thanks again.
Thank you! I should add that my previous comment is presuming that the poly layer is fully cured and sanded BEFORE going over top with epoxy. Cannot put epoxy over top of wet / un-cured poly :-) Just wanted to make that clear
in the summer in Annapolis maryland we smoked a pint of poly resin when the boss told us to crank it up to get done we sprayed it with a hose
LOL!!
BoatworksToday
A neighbor of mine lost their house to a fire started by saw dust and uncured polyurethane finish. He had installed new hardwood floors and after applying the finish he decided he didn't like the final product. He then spent a couple of days sanding off the newly applied polyurethane and sweeping everything up and putting in a trash bag. He had finished late at night and left the bag of sanding dust in the kitchen which self ignited later that night. The fire inspector said it wasn't the first time he had seen this happen.
mix some silica with it lol
I have charged 5Qt buckets of resin and it has not cought fire. When disposing of old resin, we sometimes charge batches of 40-100 lbs (5-12 Gal). I'm not saying it is a good idea to charge unnecessary amounts of resin, but the risk is minimal. The best way to mitigate risk with excess resin is to put it in a wide container to let it spread out and dissipate the heat. The cracking you noticed is caused by low strength and high internal stress. As the resin cures it shrinks, and the hotter it gets during the initial cure the more shrinkage occurs. The "puck" you made literally shrank so much that it broke itself to release pressure. without any glass content there was nothing to hold itself together.
I worked at Grady White Boats from 203-08. as a Spray Equipment Technician. We used poly resin for production layup. Being in the South we spend a lot of Summer in extream heat. Most fire I experienced were caused by wet glass thrown in a trash can. I have seen a Chopper gun overspray a mold set for a pull and set off an arc fire from static. MEKP Catalyst designed for a quick cure is very dangerous.
I have never seen a container of just catalyzed resin just spontaneously burst into flames unless they were in direct heat transforming contact with a combustible material. In wet form the most dangerous material fiberglass MFG is MEKP. It is UNGODLY FLAMABLE, highly caustic, and doe's not taste very well. A Close second is Isociante . The catalyst side of Plural component flotation foam. If you become allergic to it you will become Fred Flinstone. Cars, Beds, furniture, or anything else made of foam will be out of your life!!
In the event waste resin begins to smoke add water. It stops the reaction. If you add Plural component foam to a cavity and it begins to smoke DO NOT try and pull it out. It just gives it air.
I don't know what blend of resin you used. Our "Winter Blend" polyresin catalyzed with 1.75% of MEKP would "GEL" in 10 min. and would be completely "Kicked Off" solid in 15 min.
Please be safe. Eye, Ear, and Respitory ( When using power tools on glass or mixing fillers) protection is wise.
To those concerned about fire, explain why the very large batches used in resin infusion processes don't catch fire. It also gets very warm in parts of the world were these processes are used.
Yo!!!!!!!! Pretty sure your supporst to drop some water in it after it all starts mixing...
If your batch didn't get above 288°F it couldn't even flash paper as its flash point is 451°F. So, while yes, it will boil water, engineers have long known that it's not possible for it to reach flash temperature. I wasn't even aware that there was a myth regarding this. Although I do love ghost stories and myths.
i save that excess resin to make non conductive washers and standoffs
Yes and it only broke at the stress fractures so it’s still durable
Older video, but I cringed to see such a waste of resin. Especially when I was needing that amount recently and had to order another gallon. Oh the pain, the pain... lol
You want fire, pour in the whole bottle of mekp on a hot day .
I'm a retired collision repair/refinish master technician and instructor. Add enough peroxide to that resin, IT WILL COMBUST! I've seen it countless times in winter when a tech tried to speed up the process with extra catalyst (hardener). I used to make small amounts combust to demonstrate the danger to my students. Soak some matt or cloth with that over catalyzed resin if you really want a fire! Be careful with polyester and epoxy resins! I once saw a young guy add extra hardener to leftover resin in a jar. He screwed the lid on and placed it in a field about 200 feet from the shop, a metal building. When it exploded, mayonnaise jar lid, right through the metal wall! I've seen it with matt, over catalyized, go up in flames and literally jump right off of the surface it was applied to.
mix it hot in a dixie cup....
ive been burned by cheap resin in warm weather.
Leave the resins in the sun on a 95 degree day, then mix a hot batch... Yep, I've made that mistake!
Put more time mixing hardener.
11:06 minutes is 666 seconds. I'm an 88
an 11 minute video that could have been 30 seconds long. WHY?
you're saying tons of stuff that you could save till the end
i'm leaving having seen nothing
youre wrong