You're applying an overly reductionistic view of biology to infer causality, when in fact we still haven't discovered all the biological mechanisms that would have influenced you to subscribe. but yeah, me too
That is probably why you continue to be sad then. It does you no good to believe and think of this theory as it does not have any relevance to us, and can only cause one to lose hope in humanity and life. I for one want to continue to find happiness and purposes in life.
You just managed to distill in a 10 min video the life perspective of a world-class intellectual. If you still have access to Sapolsky it would be extremely helpful to get him to recommend some books, life advice, cognitive exercises and other gold nuggets of his intellect. Highly appreciate your work!
To believe or not to believe , they don't have a choice so telling that is not logical.. but he didn't have a choice as I didn't have a choice of not typing this c9mment having 9 in it..
You are free. *CQC hugs. And disarms you with a smile.* Let it go my son. Or should I say brother? I'm not here to fight. It's time to let the gun go, and live. - Big Boss from Metal Gear 4. avoid existential dispair by hedonism and playing video games. Distract yourself. Don't hack. Hacking is an illegal invasion of privacy. Peace.
Copernicus stripped the human of his centrality in the universe. Darwin stripped the human of his distinction from other animals. And today, Sapolsky comes to destroy the rest of human's humanity, which is free will. Whether Sapolsky is right or wrong, abolishing free will is a painful idea for every human being who feels human. As for Sapolsky and his ilk, they already lack a human sense, and therefore they accept this idea and may be enthusiastic about it.
Personally, I just use the notion of determinism whenever it suits me and believe in free will the rest of the time. It is kind of weird to simultaneously believe in two seemingly incompatible concepts, but it is strangely entirely possible and that is how the paradox Sapolsky is talking about is solved for me. Here are a few examples: 1) When I'm inclined to feel guilt for past mistakes, I tell myself that I was not responsible for them and didn't really have any choice, because feeling guilt is unproductive. However, when I need to make a choice in the present moment, I take full responsibility for it and do my best to make the right choice. 2) When I feel anger towards somebody, but think that lashing out wouldn't solve anything, I remind myself that whatever that person did was not in their control, and I immediately feel calmer after. However, when I think that anger is appropriate, I give in to it and use it as fuel to address legitimate unfairness. 3) When I feel envy towards someone's achievements, I think of all the privileges that person had that allowed them to succeed. However, when I genuinely want to compliment someone on something I appreciate/admire, I do exactly that, because not only it makes them and myself feel better, but also encourages behavior that I want to see more of in the world around me. All in all, I admit it makes zero sense from a theoretical perspective, but in practice it gets the job done (i.e. reduces the pain and suffering in me and around me). After all, many people believe in God only when it suits them (e.g. when in grief or a stressful situation), but are atheists most of the time, and they don't see any problem with that. So, I don't see any problem either in using both notions of free will and determinism as mere tools to build a life worth living. The key is to not overthink while getting lost in the philosophical intricacies, but just do what feels right.
I'm not a scientific person and have never truly shown much interest in anything scientific; and I certainly didn't apply myself in any high school science courses. But this man makes science and biology so interesting just from the way he speaks about it. Wish he had been my professor.
Professor Sapolsky...I'd be so thrilled finding myself sitting right next to you on a loong bus ride to anywhere...I would gladly ask you endless, but meaningful questions & listen to you talk for hours on end...Your pure intellectual "brilliance" has fascinated me for a very long time...
Although I disagree with Dr. Sapolsky on the subject of free will (because of a variety of reasons), I really appreciate him as a scientist and thinker since he points to a problem from a different and informed perspective we haven't solved nor properly tackled yet and hence challenges the idea as such.
Well, whoa... that creates a different future. Thank you to the professor for his excellent lecturing style. Easy cadence on the voice and a liveliness so rare.
“Originally human beings had no purpose. Now, dreaming up some purpose or other, they struggle away trying to find the meaning of life. It is a one-man wrestling match. There is no purpose one has to think about, or go out in search of. You would do well to ask the children whether or not a life without purpose is meaningless.” ― Masanobu Fukuoka, The One-Straw Revolution ; Fukuoka goes on to say "To live life here and now: this is the purpose of life." To me, this attitude has proven life-generating/sustaining, but of course it requires an immediate and direct engagement with life!
Iconoclast Iconoclast 5 seconds ago I am a materialist myself and have asked these questions and accept the fact that as a species someplace along the line along with consciousness we evolved a need for meaning. I simply stoically accept that we are really just "THINGS" and yet we can fulfill this need for meaning by doing something meaningful. "If you want life to have meaning do something meaningful". Carl Sagan If one cannot find meaning in the smile of a child, what pity I have for them! I also find life less of a burden for I now realize how absurd life is and am more likely to face it with a grin than a grimace. It has been said that to a feeling person life is tragedy and for a thinking person a comedy, I see it as a tragic comedy, yes tragic but still a comedy. Words I try to live by; 'IF LIFE IS BUT A BITTER JEST LET US FORGET THE BITTERNESS AND REMEMBER THE JEST' Will Durrantt Nobel Laurette in history
Pain is painful. Motivation is motivational. Meaning is meaningful etc. Just because we don’t have free will doesn’t mean all of our concepts are meaningless. They still guide our behaviour.
What's the meaning of it all? 'life itself has no meaning. But life is an opportunity to make a meaningful life' - a quote from TikTok. I'm a Godless atheist, and blond. so i just laugh and try not to think about finding meaning where there is none. ☮️🎶-j in southern Japan from my wife's RUclips with her permission of course.☮️🎶we're 10s of trillions of atoms big each and each of us is part the environment which surrounds each of us the environment is made of even more atoms than each of us (my wife & i) are. Bet you didn't know the chemical signal that informs the pancreas to make insulin? it's GTP-1, it's not CHAT GPT 5.3 an Artificial Intelligence, GTP-1 molecules are made when carbohydrates reach the intestines and inform the pancreas ''yo! blood sugar is rising!, how 'bout some insulin?'' The pancreas doesn't even have to ask 'how much insulin do you need?'' the amount is in the amount of GTP-1. And we think we have ''self-awareness''. 🤔 i don't think we understand the meaning of the phrase ''self-awareness''. ☮️🎶
Excellent !!! What matters to me now is being connected to myself. Aware of my own consciousness. Experiencing life while being in the moment. Caring for someone I’m responsible for. Connection,the thing I didn’t have much of when I was younger. I’m older now.
Dear man, you have seen me through so many hard times. with your lucidity, humour and incredible smarts. When asked once why you were happy, you said, 'well, I love my job. I exercise every day, and I have a great marriage'. I'm so sorry that one of these essential elements must have failed. So sorry for your grief. I'm so sorry. love to you.
Very honest intellectual! Very grateful for his essay. Understand his position but not his conclusions. Perhaps the purpose of life is to enjoy what you can of it? And most importantly, do that with someone you love. And, after that, try to find ways to love others, including strangers. I am amazed at how effective humans can be at magnifying the ONLY thing that we ALL share in common - suffering in some form. We can do much better at supporting each other - and, I think, with little effort........
Hello Robert Sapolsky. As a Californian from Burlingame living in Europe and stuck in London, I'm a high art classical musician and equally an artist all my life. A musician writes. Keep your curiosity alive and keep it insatiable! Thank you for your honesty and humility and your biology. What did you have for breakfast? 😉
ok, so I've been reading watching every thing about Sapolsky for years.. Dude has to fix me now and get me out of my existential despair or I'm gonna sue him. :)
Its reassuring to hear this brilliant man come out with all the conclusions i came to myself. I usually use a rollercoaster to illustrate how to deal with it, we all can enjoy a rollercoaster ride, the ups and downs, the scary bits and the elation of it all without ever feeling the need to think that were driving it. Enjoy the ride! Youre not in control but its a hell of a ride.
I nominated Robert for the top psychiatric doctor position employed by the federal government because of your wisdom and knowledge I don't know if it'll go anywhere but it's at least my push in the right direction for the evolution of mankind I believe
I woke up this morning and didn't go to work. Feeling awful and anxious and depressed as is very common with me. I've been trying to write a book on reducing suffering, with the concept of no free will as the main factor, and was finding so many reasons to just give up and live a simple life if possible. But Roberts simple "pain is painful" just gives me a little hope again. Maybe it could help someone one day if I'm able to finish it.
i think his views lead to mass existential despair -a very depressing view of the world - the scientific meytod cannot disprove the spiritual as it by defintion only measures the world of the normal senses - his reductionist categorical thinking is flawed by his own standards see stanford lectures
@@rabbidannyb ya I’ve seen the lectures. I’m not necessarily saying his view is a complete and the proper treatment of reality. What I’m saying is it contributes to one’s worldview- a refinement, so to speak. One would need more research and introspection imo for a “final” view (which I don’t think is possible anyway given that ifs more of a journey than a destination)
I regret not realizing that Sapolsky was at Stanford when I was a student there... I didn't even make the connection when I bought two of his books from the Stanford Bookstore: Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and Monkeyluv.... I would have at least, as a biological organism...stopped by his office to say hello........................
Thanks for uploading this Sapolsky golden nugget. It’s ironic how to a theist, this viewpoint is seen as a nihilistic and sad, but to me, this worldview is simply empowering.
You know about Jezus, right? still, his Jewish backround and his way of telling thing's. Is indeed done out of good will and is one of the thing's what Jezus did for us. I think he will get into haven becauce of his good wil.
Sapolsky has changed my life. I have never met him but he has a tremendously influence in my daily thinking now. I see Us. vs. Them dychotomies everywhere and I think about people like little primates with the ability for language and complex social relationships. The way I see it, the way he taught me, every single one of us is a little system that started with unique initial variables and as we grew and interacted with other systems, we became the great or fucked up person we are. It's hard to properly explain but he has made me change the perspective of how I see the world. I still suffer everyday with depression but listening to his lectures and reading his books has removed a lot of weight from my shoulders. Greetings from Colombia.
Hurray, you’re not a programmed, consumer zombie idealogue. The most powerful nation on earth (where greed is glorified) turns out to have been (no excuses anymore) designed to make the people born into the culture of the American Dream & others who buy into it, sick in body, mind & soul. How can one NOT BE depressed??? “Turning & turning in the widening gyre ... Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold, Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world ... & everywhere, The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction while the worst Are full of passionate intensity .... “ (WB Yeats, 1919). Hello Chaos theory. Our behaviors, our lifestyles, our way of life is not sustainable, is killing us & destroying the planet, fauna, flora, species, eventually which makes us all in denial, complicit in the end, & the more we know & learn & comprehend, unfortunately, the more depressed, the worse it gets. What it means to be human in this age (plasticene, ha ha) of science & tech is suffer the result of knowing.
@@marileesteele1804 OH dear, I've read most of the comments and yours is a reality check in the gut...Wishing the best for you and everyone as we go down the drain.
Nicki - Let's say we're giving our all, but actually just spread platitudes on the internet every now and then while living our lives in near total self-absorption.
samthepoor - I'm not excusing myself here. The problem is not simply a lack of understanding of the problem that we need to reduce suffering , the problem is the total self absorption and egocentrism of humankind.
Burak Tao - Pain is a part of life, sure. There's a huge distinction is the pain of say, eating a spicy Thai dish, or the pain of a really brutal strength training workout, and the pain of a horrible accident or some destructive disease. Eradicating pain completely is very narrowminded. The key really is pointless suffering.
I wonder if it's too late, at 50, to begin charting a course to learn neuroscience. When I first discovered it was a thing, like recently, it was like a flood light was turned on in my head.
Here something I was rolling in my mind, trying to find an answer to weather there is a free will. First (and way too early in life) I came to the conclusion that there is, in fact, no free will. This realization came from pretty much the same reasons that our dear Sapolsky states: we are the products of our genetics, environment, up bringing, life events etc. and so, to every new given situation there should be only one outcome, one that is derived from the sum of ourselves. BUT THEN I though, what if there is more than just one reasonable outcome? That is, what if there are a few with the same exact probability? Is this where we DO have free will and thus believe that we do in other situations too? I mean, considering that there are so many factors that influence us, it seems probable that some situations will result in a few equally probable response choices, right?
Probability does not exist in physical world as much as a perfect circle or a straight line. I challenge you to think of an example of situation in which you could clearly say that is based on pure probability. Coin toss or dice roll is not a good example. Whenever you toss a coin, you activate an experiment in deterministic system, where you abdicate to examine physical factors that would determine the outcome (initial strength of toss, air resistance, path for coin to travel, rotating speed etc). Picking up a coin from a table, looking at it and putting it back carefully is an exact equivalent of a coin toss also if you think about it. Quantum theory uses term 'probability' in the exact same manner so please don't bring it up for this reason (besides other problems tossing quantum physics argument right and left by about everyone on the planet brings about, while there are serious indications that there was never a human being to understand it).
@@kerel995 I'm a biologist so probability for me has, let's say, fuzzy edges. I agree that the strictly mathematical probability I think you meant, really doesn't exist (outside maths). And I definitely know nothing about quantum theory. What I was talking about was more of a thought experiment, I guess ( or science fiction, maybe). That is, if we could, somehow, account for all the factors that make us us is this moment - genetics, upbringing, hormones, our mood, what we ate today etc. - would we be able to predict what one will do or choose? Does it sum up to just one "choice" or a few overlapping ones? Like, if we had a crazy powerful computer and the most sophisticated algorithm that knows everything about us, could it predict out actions? There has to be a stochastic element, I guess, and maybe that's where we feel we have free will?
Lucky to be biologist :) envy you Regarding your earlier entry, I think incrementation of factors / variables in the system does not really change nature of reasoning. Let's imagine that a plank can hold up to 1kg of mass before breaking. It should not really matter where that mass comes from or how we measure it. If we put 1kg bag of sugar on it, it should break. Similarly, after measurement of 10^42 individual particles, rays, waves, intergalactic gravitational pulls and other forces and determine that we are at the 1kg sweet spot, I don't think that we should expect more than 1 outcome just by virtue of making our computation more complicated. Knowledge of chaos theory is useful to deal with some basic notions and some intuitions with regards to overwhelimg scales of some deterministic modelling. I am kind of also a heretic to full determinism but due to different reason. Determinism seems to me so absolutely certain that i start to doubt it out of fear for locking myself in some ignorance bubble. Still, if there were two possible outcomes to one set of values in equation, in what other way can it be presented? Toss a coin and get hands AND tails as a result? Roll a six sided die and have it land on 8th side? (All edges and ridges excluded). Also, when reaching out to probability it is may be beneficial to always be aware and cautious that results we imagine are theoretical constructs. In fact, tossing a coin we have ifinite number of possible outcomes that we group artificially in a similar way we group odd and even numbers. Flat surfaces does not exist and there should be infinite number of positions our coin can land. But we simplify them to the binary. Another thought: world may not be deterministic at all. Like, no single locality of deterministic phenomenon in entire universe. But our brains are set to process all information using hardwired model of causality. From religious sacrifices to understanding of physics, we analyze factors determining outcomes with greater and greater precision. If we discover that indeed, 1kg of sugar sometimes breaks the board and sometimes not, it is about as strong as survival instinct to ask 'why'? Maybe we did not measure sugar precisely enough? Maybe planet was closer to the gravitational pull, maybe board has free will? And if it has free will, at what time of the day or in pressence of which lab assistant will it more likely decide to break? See? I don't think there is any chance to escape this way of thinking.
@@FourDogs1111 "Believing in irrational thing will damage you."If true we would all be damaged beyond repair. Amos Versky and Daniel Kahneman work is something to look into. Dan Ariely is another person of interest. Please look into these people, than think about how irrational we are as people. Why do you think we as people have a multitude of different ways in understanding life?
@Nobody Unknown Hello, I have no idea why you left these comments to me. It has nothing to do with any of my comments. Could you tell me how your thinking brought about these comments. I get to adjust my thinking to some degree every week. Because I know I am a collage of culture, tradition, experience, memory, physical environment, brain structure and biology. I know I am leaving something out. Anyways shake all of these different things together. And presto.
This provides a good underpinning to why an Epicurean approach to life can make sense. We’re here, it’s essentially meaningless, how can maximize contentment (not hedonistic pleasure),
I think regardless of total influence, the idea that pain is painful can be taken even further to say that what we experience as beauty and goodness and badness in general are all still experienced with influence on us. It is the very fact that things are not free/separate that allows for a coherent understanding of good and bad. I really don't think that lack of free will in any way negates a purpose of reducing badness AND supporting goodness. In fact, understanding the connection (even perhaps beyond specifically biological relatedness) of all things can really enhance the desire to support such a purpose for all life and to expand our definition of "us" which Sapolsky refers to in other contexts.
An important point to make here (and I believe Dr, Sapolsky has made this point as well, altough not right here) is that just beacuse there is no free will, that doesn't mean there is no will! Willpower is very important, and those who have more of it will generally accomplish more, and be more satisfied with life, than those who have less. Sapolsky's very imprtant point is that the strength of our will , and the shape and orientation of it, is a biological accident, no different than our height, or our shoe size, and therefore our will can can never be "free". Our will is always nothing more the sum total of all of our influences, both genetic and experiential. But it is still will. And it is still ours.
even though there might not be free will, we human possess the ability to recognize the utility in doing good works for other beings and nurture a respect for the planet
Wonderful talk - very insightful. I think if you work with an infinite mindset and that that we are all interdependent, then the issue of wanting cheating the system when you think you don’t have free will, will disappear as you are ultimately just going to be creating more pain in the future.
Interestingly only yesterday I came to the biological conclusion, I didn't fall apart but shed a whole lot of judgement and guilt, I often marvel at the seemingly random coincidences to be felt on youtube, although a month ago I did watch Sapolsky's first lecture in the Stanford course in Human Behavioural Biology, so easy to imagine how this new realisation may have come to form recently, and I have to thank youtube for leading me to some great knowledge, while at the same time condemning them for trying to lead me astray many times, and I am out as to whether RUclips has totally malicious intent or is just another 'biologically' flawed model?
I struggled with the problem of free will for more than a decade , back from early 90s to early 0ς . Was I nothing more than a cellular automaton ? Everything was pointing in that direction ,so then another question rose...is my course in life predetermined? Can an other being sufficiently smarter than me given all the data of my past and my surroundings able to accurately define my life? In that question layed the seeds to the answer to my free will dillema.. I was a student of physics back then , struggling with the newly discovered notions of chaos theory . I knew i was embedded in a whole system..I could never think of my self as an individual ,there for , to contemplate if I have a free Will or not was meaningless I thought... "I am an integral part of a whole.. i am not influenced by it... I am it...I am the appendix of the whole universe...I go back to the beginning of the cosmos... My brain is the entity that is trying to predetermine how my life will play out...every animal is doing exactly that..Its trying to simulate its surroundings ,in order to gain ..its is something i was evolved to....its a biology...its physics...I am competing with other versions of me ..in trying to guess the future for my benefit...there is no free Will for an individual...there is individual guessing for the course of your Life...the universe is an organism made out of others organisms...its computations on a quantum scale...in the end everything is information and correlations ."
You can really see it's a question that pains him in the end. To 'keep on going, just because I don't like' pain sounds like a very gloomy, puny philosophy. And I know he's trying to justify living on a rational argument, but what reason is there even to see life from such a distant viewpoint? I am in big favor of the sciences , but they are, like Sapolsky says himself, an abstraction of reality; a convenient lens through which phenomena can be explained. When you walk through this world you never see any clash of the atoms or an evolutionary force that is behind your wheel. All you have is a world of senses, thoughts and feelings. So in my opinion you should stick to that reality when trying to find a sense in your being. And isn't a world in which you get to choose your own meaning a better one compared to one where your meaning has been set in advance for you by some entity, even though it's the much more difficult scenario? And I have mixed feelings about the free will topic: I agree mostly with what he is saying: I think it's scientifically inevitable to conclude that there is no free will. But the justice system still holds practical value; good behavior should still be rewarded and bad punished. Punishing someone for having an epileptic fit while driving won't have any positive effect, whereas by punishing a thief for example you are making the next robbery more unlikely. Words like 'fault' and 'accomplishment' still hold their value, if we only keep in mind in what sense they are used, namely that 'having a will' doesn't mean there is a small homunculus sitting inside your head driving that biological machine.
I think the problem is that when we talk about "punishing" we are talking about a means of satisfying an emotional impulse and not acting according to what would be "rational". Punishing an inmate for having killed someone, depriving him of his liberty, of the people he cares about ... rarely succeeds in correcting behaviors that we see as incorrects, and more so considering the great amalgam of crimes that There are and all possible reasons why they can be committed. Perhaps it would make sense to lock up an irreparable psychopath, since as social beings it would be useless to keep him inside the collective, but what would be the point of locking up a young man who has killed in an impulsive act, distancing him from his family and friends for a large part of their life? We could be creating inestable little brothers, or angry friends that would use that as an excuse to perpetuate more violence. I think what we should do is completely change our notion of "punishment" and, in fact, replace it with something that is useful for society. Why is there less violence in more pleasant communities? Perhaps it has to do with how externalities affect our behavior? Wouldn't it be more useful to try to connect criminals with an empathetic reality and make them feel useful by ... I don't know, using their capacities to keep building our society? Most of the people who are currently in prison aren't there because their confinement is going to contribute something to society. In fact, perhaps we are depriving ourselves of many brilliant minds with traumatic pasts. If they are in prison, it is for the satisfaction of "punishing" conducts that we consider immoral and not to reform them.
@Kremig Mitsahne I agree with your train of thought. He actually gave us the answer at the last few seconds even though he doesn't admit it. Free will only comes into play in that we can choose to look at where we cause pain, in ourselves, in others. Are we causing pain by only thinking in terms of how we benefit from a particular act? If our goal is to eliminate pain in ourselves and other beings, we must be, imo, thinking of the effects on others. Service to only self is an ignorant stance. We can choose to be more service to others and gain satisfaction to the degree we are individually programmed biologically, that results in the feeling of being satisfied with our choices. If we wield that power to act in that context we can experiment with our choices intentionally to find that sweet spot. Additionally, I wanted to add my 2 cents on venerating a character such as Mr. Sapolsky which many do. I have studied his lectures and he does have tremendous knowledge! My question is; if he's as clueless about the fundamental questions of life we all ultimately feel the need to find the answer to, then to what end does all his inhumane experimentation to gain his wealth of info about human biology does it serve? He's had a storied career, no doubt was paid well, respected as an authority worldwide yet in the end clueless. Contemplate that for a minute. I welcome non emotional responses. Thanks.
He's pained as you say i believe because he may realize all his life work is really useless in the end. All the pain himself he served by manipulating and tricking the human and animal subjects in the name of science is probably going to haunt him for eternity. I am aware of the implications of that and thus have always listened to his lectures in that context so that i dont unwittingly celebrate inhumane experimentation to non free will humans and beasts since i am a human myself and have been subjected to some of that in the past. Most likely my motivation was to see where it got him. Now I feel satisfied that my earlier intuitions were not far off. Thanks.
Libertarian free will is nonsense. But even though we don't have this absolute free will, it doesn't change that I absolutely enjoy learning about this world we find ourselves in. The fact that an incomprehensible concatenation of causes, which I did not control, created me in this moment and that doesn't really change anything for me. I love laughing and enjoying people's company and good conversation and learning and trying to make life better for myself and those around me. The fact that I don't have free will doesn't change that. I'm just enjoying the experience, and I don't feel the need to be responsible in some way that transcends the laws of physics, in order to be happy.
Life needs no meaning to be, it needs no purpose other than to simply live it. Only a complex, sophisticated mind can create the concepts of meaning and purpose, but these concepts belong to the realm of relativity and do not apply to the absolute realm. What creates a lot of confusion and frustration is when we mix up what is true on a conventional level with ultimate truth. When we lose sight of neither we maintain a balance and harmony that is a reflection of the totality; we operate not from the point of view of individuality but from the standpoint of the universal.
My sense is that my mind is not free but my awareness is free from choices, so my awareness is free and me. Choices cause determinism and so you can’t choose a choice as the choice determines which one you choose. With that in mind I give up the fight against determinism in the material realm of mind and in doing so, act as if I’m free so that society functions yet reap the benefits being that I view my mistakes not with guilt but necessity. My meaning is what I do in a meaningless world. No existential dread anymore and I’m certain this paragraph does not sum up my journey to this mental status.
I feel like there is an 'Its nothing but‘ syndrome happening here, which extinguishes emotional value senses. What about value in personal situational potentials? A cheekbone compliment reminds you that you currently have the power to inspire the average human in a very particular way, given that you keep those cheekbones. Thats really why you might feel good, current potential cheekbone abilities, not cheekbone development history, not genetics, not environment conditions. It really doesnt matter if "you" are not at fault, its the situation potentials we are ultimately concerned with.
We are always becoming something else and we are products of our environment. Lack of awareness can be a detriment as well. the form we become in the future is not the same form that committed the crime. the perceptual Paradigm of excessive individualism is an oversimplification logical fallacy as well as scientifically illiterate. Multidisciplinary science is required to understand why this statement is axiomatic. I've made all of this as succinct and simple as I possibly can at my Channel. Watch it or not, the awareness of these teachings is spreading and you will absorb them regardless. 😉
Beyond Psychology you said it very poetically, we become a different form. However, we still have the situation. proof that someone is capable of a fault. how do we fix them, and how to tell its a success. if we cant fix someone with a fault, what do we do? disable their chassis?, thats currently what we do if the problem is bad enough. likewise, we will still feel good about our cheekbones, even if theyre fake. ill have to check your channel out
@Maria Callous Change their medicine. Get right this time. Don't play Russian roulette with medicines that can cause paranoia. But just because one is paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. i went to the police and the phone shop. the phone shop employee saw my Facebook was hacked. and i couldn't report to the ic3.gov. first it was redirected after that the screen would flash and reset information. That's not cool. The phone shop employee saw that occur. Also the local police saw i couldn't even get to the ic3.gov it would flash blue, but nothing else would happen. it wouldn't open. In fact none of the sites worked. not just the ic3.gov. i would Appreciate it if they would stop hacking me. Is there anything that they want from me or have they taken it?
I am a materialist myself and have asked these questions and accept the fact that as a species someplace along the line along with consciousness we evolved a need for meaning. I simply stoically accept that we are really just "THINGS" and yet we can fulfill this need for meaning by doing something meaningful. "If you want life to have meaning do something meaningful". Carl Sagan I also find life less of a burden for I now realize how absurd life is and am more likely to face it with a grin than a grimace. It has been said that to a feeling person life is tragedy and for a thinking person a comedy, I see it as a tragic comedy, yes tragic but still a comedy. Words I try to live by; 'IF LIFE IS BUT A BITTER JEST LET US FORGET THE BITTERNESS AND FORGET THE JEST' Will Durrant Nobel Laurette in history
This guy could get anyone off a murder case being a professor for 1 . The endless angles he could say why it wasn’t the persons fault and confusing the judge jury and executioner with knowledge that we are controlled and nothing would have stopped that murder from happening
It's very interesting to read comments on such a complex topic. As a psychologist myself, I tend to fully agree with him, because what stands behind "free will" and in particular "lack of free will" should not be taken literally. The way our brain is wired is super complex, but yet we have our desires, we are "driven" by desires, wishes. However, once we start looking into the background we simply won't have enough time to put the puzzle together. I think we simply to comfort ourselves believing we have a free will, while instead it's a whole generation of my ancestors that wired my brain + current environment. I do not have any disorders thus I'm fitting "well" into current society and vast majority would rather feel that I do have my free will. Should I suffer from schizophrenia, vast majority would say I do not have free will because I suffer from a disorder. The brain is the same, "disease" is not "someone above" driving my behaviour, but it's rather now behaviour standing out from social norms. The only thing I have realised so far, the better I know myself better I understand my own wishes and desires, that helps me to accept what I am. I do believe that our brain needs to comfort us, hence rationalisation of our thoughts, emotions, situation and namely same exact topic of a "free will", it's comforting. Just like God and creation of Bible was.
How do I explain proof of this lack of free will fact to get out of jury duty? I'm not comfortable judging people to begin with, let alone when there is consequences for them.
We are a way for the universe to view itself. I believe we are here to create A I which will enable interstellar exploration. Whether we as humans will be a part of that or in what form has yet to be determined.
You must all look into the field of epigenetics . Its the study of changes in a individual caused by modification of gene expression rather then alteration of the genetic code itself. As all of you know most of our behaviors are encoded by genes. Basically what this means is that we can reprogram and rewrite our script if you will.
He just stated that many atheists are responsible human beings too without having any feeling of accountability to God. The reason behind this is that all humans are created with the natural innate disposition to acknowledge the clear "good and bad" things normally
We can still live life "as though" we had free will, and to me that is meaningful. The empirical illusion of free-will is not dispelled by careful logical analysis; only the delusion of having individual causal agency is dispelled. Fiction can be enjoyed as fiction. If someone compliments your smile, just play the game and thank them with a wider smile.
In the red corner Carl "The Dreamer" Jung and in the blue corner Bobby " the blob of biological mass" Sapolsky!!! What a fight we have here today folks.
Robert Sapolsky would find a way to make peace with Carl Jung. Because at the end of the day pain is painful. Let's try to reduce the amounts of it in this world. Here's your Olive Branch. Peace.
@@GH69107 and @Angelinarobert No doubt there would be peace between the two. I was speaking metaphorically about their differences of opinion with regard meaning and purpose. It's my view that they couldn't be more opposite when it comes their outlook on the meaning of life. On the one hand Sapolsky says we're just biological creatures with no purpose and it's my impression that Carl Jung has a far more enlightening sense of (wo) man's purpose. The reason I mentioned red and blue corners was because I thought they could have a a very interesting discussion about spirituality, existence etc. They are two favourites of mine when it comes to their work. But they couldn't be more opposite, in a way.
@@GH69107 I've given a few of his books a go as well and found his last book, 'modernan in search of a soul' to be the one which I would recommend to people. It touches off of all of his ideas and was written for the general public rather than as a collection of scientific papers.
The absence of free will does not remove the consequences of actions. It also does not remove the ability to learn from the consequences so the responsibility to learn from consequences. Rules and responsibility are measured out according to capacity. This is why punishment is different for children than adults.
Its not a depressing concept. We are all still unique based on all the biological influences u mentioned. In fact its liberating. We have been fighting biology when could be learning from it to succeed best.
Robert sapolsky is a wonderful lecturer a very intelligent man and has also affected my intellectual oscillation state. Watch out for hero worship though. look it up if you don't know what I'm talking about. Read up on the dangers of it. Just looking out for ya. Less important to man, more importantly thought. Even more important is what you do with the thought.
@@NathansHVAC well, he has a lot going on for him. People respect him. He understands things at a very deep level. Understanding yields solace. Robert sapolsky is also displaying logical fallacy here. Don't worry, it's not depressing because he's not being completely accurate and I don't think that he considers these thoughts to be facts but rather just part of the puzzle of which is being processed right now. Robert sapolsky is completely capable of changing his mind. Check this out. This will help you. ruclips.net/video/seTZzJfeUmY/видео.html
It doesn't really matter if there is no free will as long as we feel we have a choices. The world around us feels sufficiently random enough that our every day life is something we feel like we control.
But what is inspiration and motivation and the relentless creative spirit? When pain and discomfort is endured for a higher calling. Athletes, artists, philosophers and even scientists that lock themselves in a process that can potentially harm them and cause them pain. If this man has somehow used his obvious high intellect to come to a conclusion that he has no purpose other than to tell me I have no purpose then what a waist. Of what use is your point of view Dr Sapolsky to me or to anyone in an existential struggle? If we are to embrace this nihilistic approach we will become extinct. To understand and accept our short comings and limitations but then to strive to overcome them is the quest that we are on. However small that flicker of determination to endure and to overcome is our will.
@Daniel And the alternative is what? Run around making up fairly tales? There are some harsh truths in this universe but the non-existence of free will doesn't need to be one of them. Accepting this fact, as Sam Harris would note "undercuts the basis of hatred" and in contrast, pride and other useless emotions. The non-existence of free will is actually quite a liberating fact if you allow yourself to frame it that way.
@Daniel There's nothing "wrong" per se with making up fairly tales until it becomes divisive and dogmatic (which happens ALL THE TIME). And I may need to do more research on this but I don't think making up and worshiping religions is a universal fact at the individual level. Some personality types make and take the information and try to drum it into the rest of us. If you don't believe what they believe then you run the risk of being an outcast, which speaking in evolutionary terms is something we want to avoid at all costs. And I can tell you from a first person perspective, believing in "fairy tales" does nothing for my psychological well-being. Truth, whatever it may be, is all i'm particularly interested in, no matter how harsh the truth might be. Truth allows to assess situations clearly and use the tools at our disposal to deal with them. For example, I agree that having the belief you may see a loved one after you die doesn't really pose a threat to the rest of society or to yourself, but if you can believe this with no sufficient evidence, what else might you believe that could be harmful? To your second point, i'm not sure how from what I said you derived that I think all wisdom in ancient religious text are "fairly tales". Surely you know i'm talking about unobservable, unprovable metaphysical claims like heaven, hell, life after death, rebirth, a big man in the sky. I know that the Buddha and Jesus and other mystical figure's have absolutely stood the test of time in philosophy, psychology, spirituality etc. But a lot of these ideas are testable and/or observable, even if only from a first person perspective. I'm not CERTAIN that heaven or hell (or some other metaphysical doctrine) doesn't exist, but a "high-minded" :) individual like myself damn sure needs to see some evidence for it, which at this point is painfully lack-luster.
Also I don't think one needs to fill the void with pharmaceuticals, alcohol, sex, food, although I might add all of those are pretty great. Mr. Buddha came up with a technique over 2,500 years ago called mindfuless meditation which is used extensively to look at our plight with more peace and equanimity. We don't need some ULTIMATE meaning or purpose, we just need to realize the rarity and beauty of life in the present moment.
beautifully said, if not entirely well-stated. everyone thinks they know something-then why are we all so obviously wrong? words like should and good and bad and intelligent...subjective much? fleeting at best, and best to remember how little we actually understand, like where the words that i'm using to write this, right now, have come from. nye the whence, and when? nary a guess. perhaps god is a poet, endlessly f-in with us.
Great talk, love your lectures, Professor. I don’t understand your concern about crime in a world with no free will. If all behavior is a result of biology and environment and there is no free will, shouldn’t we just try and change the criminal’s environment? Sure it takes some study to do, but for practical purposes if we want certain behaviors to happen and not others (and it does not make a diference if we want freely or not) we just need to find the environment that fosters those behaviors, first in general and secondarily in special cases.
I know I'm late to the party here, but, one of the problems with just changing their environment is this: those who are socially conditioned to be criminals become comfortable in their dysfunction and a safe environment will still produce defensive reactions. Smaller offenses activate the same biological processes which cause adverse reactions. They often have a history of childhood neglect and trauma. Just as dopamine spikes with the anticipation of a reward, epinephrine and norepinephrine do the same in response to anticipation of a threat. Their over reactions will escalate until they erupt like a volcano creating a breaking point where they may choose to either change by practicing better habits, or remain obstinant. Their social support system is responsible for helping to re-condition maladaptive behavior once the individual reaches this breaking point. In order to produce this effect, one must imprison the individual, effectively holding them against their will and forcing this potentially dangerous response. Who would be dedicated enough to produce this reaction in a dangerous adult, and risk their own lives to reform criminals? Spouses of abusers are often willing to stick it out and risk their own life in hopes of influencing behavior modification, but few outside this group are as dedicated to the reformation of criminals. We have wilderness camps for youth beginning at the age of 12 which are built to provide a safe environment to addicts and deviants. One of these camps is in Virginia, it's called The Discovery School. If we, as a society, could recognize the value of these programs on a wider scale, we may be able to reform criminals through providing a safe environment and offering them the social skills necessary to succeed in society. As it stands, we lack the social support upon release for the few individuals who have been accepted into an adult version of these programs (there is one in Florida which I don't recall the name of, but requires sentencing to be accepted). Criminal charges often cause individuals to struggle after release due to the social stigma which leads to recidivism. Same goes for addiction, lack of social support and returning to the same dysfunctional environment causes the individual to become triggered and return to the same maladaptive behavior to cope with their distress. TLDR; It is not as simple as providing a safe environment.
A practical concept of free will for the individual is to try to think something through, come to a conclusion and carry it through, even when it is very hard. F.e. visit a course when you are tired from working. This ability, this willpower depends on your genes, family, education and surrounding. That is why many people have no chance at all. It is necessary to put dangerous people away. Not because they are bad. The pain principle is useful and not new. Basically the same as utilitarianism (bentham/mill).
Sapolsky says this in one of his lectures. He says, when you pay too much attention to boundaries, you don't see the bigger picture; all you see are categories.
Where's your compassion Robert? You''re in favor of "life" where suffering is the norm and all animals make a living by destroying the life of some other living thing usually in a brutal and painful way. I agree with your thoughts on free will.
I love your honesty and lectures as opposed to many many shrinks you get six different ones and you will get six different diagnosis they all think they know what they're talking about and never do they there to admit their human and that is something that they just don't know it's really nice listening to someone brutally honest for a change without the PHD shrink I went to school and I know everything ain't you can't tell me I'm glad I came across your lectures and overall I agree a lot with you I wish you had more answers but fingers crossed that you'll figure it out lol I love love your honesty it's refreshing for a change!
99% of organisms go extinct. no one's asking you to stay alive. it's up to you to find a reason for being for yourself and free will isn't a requirement to living a worthwhile life.
Although absence of free will means that what we have done was unavoidable at the time, it doesn’t mean that understanding causes of behavior negates accountability. Evil remains evil, good remains good, A serial killer may not have a choice about killing, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be locked up. Understanding behavior doesn’t excuse it. What changes is that now there is no basis for being angry at the perpetrator, allowing us to more calmly examine the options for dealing with the offense and offender, and more wisely choose our actions and policies. By the same token, heroic acts or great artistry will still be admired, but the “hero worship” can be toned down and the accomplishments seen for what they more truly are: the brilliance of the universe focussed through a fortunate individual.
I don't normally answer trolls, but you've earned it. You don't speak against my hero, Robert Sapolsky. He's a world-class neuro-endocrinologist, his IQ is through the roof, he's done multiple discoveries on the endocrine system, he's written several books, contributed valuable information for human well-being ... and you call him a jackass? You're the jackass. Now apologize.
That's the best response you could muster? I gave you a chance to engage with me. You're obviously incapable of intelligent arguments for "why" you think Sapolsky is a "jackass," or of making your point clearly beyond ad-hominems. Therefore, this conversation is over. Have a nice day!
it could simply be a different way of approaching the decisions we make? This information makes me want to gather experiences and information to steer my brain in a different perspective or shake things up. This makes me hopeful
I'm a simple man, I see Robert Sapolsky, I subscribe.
This is logic
You had no choice.
You're applying an overly reductionistic view of biology to infer causality, when in fact we still haven't discovered all the biological mechanisms that would have influenced you to subscribe.
but yeah, me too
#brown
Hahaha reflex action
The daily dose of 1 am Sapolsky, now that I ran out of his lectures.
I just love Sapolosky. Simple, honest, powerful. Cuts straight to the heart of the issue.
Whenever I feel sad, I watch videos of this guy speaking.
Me too. Unfortunately I find myself watching his videos often lately.
That is probably why you continue to be sad then. It does you no good to believe and think of this theory as it does not have any relevance to us, and can only cause one to lose hope in humanity and life. I for one want to continue to find happiness and purposes in life.
@@AlexanderCrites his videos ended my depression. Horses for courses.
His voice is very relaxing and enjoyable to listen to.
👍👍💯💯
Sapolsky comes across as a very nice person. Honest to himself.
Well said
You just managed to distill in a 10 min video the life perspective of a world-class intellectual. If you still have access to Sapolsky it would be extremely helpful to get him to recommend some books, life advice, cognitive exercises and other gold nuggets of his intellect. Highly appreciate your work!
Get the book Chaos. He talks about it in his lectures. That's what influenced him most.
@@omerunaldesign Who's the author of the book?
@@SalitosInside James Gleick
There’s his own book, Behave
Agreed. He really is one of the top intellectuals today.
"We must believe in free will, we have no choice!"
That... that is great.
To believe or not to believe , they don't have a choice so telling that is not logical.. but he didn't have a choice as I didn't have a choice of not typing this c9mment having 9 in it..
Christopher Hitchens
You are free. *CQC hugs. And disarms you with a smile.* Let it go my son. Or should I say brother? I'm not here to fight. It's time to let the gun go, and live. - Big Boss from Metal Gear 4. avoid existential dispair by hedonism and playing video games. Distract yourself. Don't hack. Hacking is an illegal invasion of privacy. Peace.
Copernicus stripped the human of his centrality in the universe. Darwin stripped the human of his distinction from other animals. And today, Sapolsky comes to destroy the rest of human's humanity, which is free will. Whether Sapolsky is right or wrong, abolishing free will is a painful idea for every human being who feels human. As for Sapolsky and his ilk, they already lack a human sense, and therefore they accept this idea and may be enthusiastic about it.
Personally, I just use the notion of determinism whenever it suits me and believe in free will the rest of the time. It is kind of weird to simultaneously believe in two seemingly incompatible concepts, but it is strangely entirely possible and that is how the paradox Sapolsky is talking about is solved for me. Here are a few examples:
1) When I'm inclined to feel guilt for past mistakes, I tell myself that I was not responsible for them and didn't really have any choice, because feeling guilt is unproductive. However, when I need to make a choice in the present moment, I take full responsibility for it and do my best to make the right choice.
2) When I feel anger towards somebody, but think that lashing out wouldn't solve anything, I remind myself that whatever that person did was not in their control, and I immediately feel calmer after. However, when I think that anger is appropriate, I give in to it and use it as fuel to address legitimate unfairness.
3) When I feel envy towards someone's achievements, I think of all the privileges that person had that allowed them to succeed. However, when I genuinely want to compliment someone on something I appreciate/admire, I do exactly that, because not only it makes them and myself feel better, but also encourages behavior that I want to see more of in the world around me.
All in all, I admit it makes zero sense from a theoretical perspective, but in practice it gets the job done (i.e. reduces the pain and suffering in me and around me). After all, many people believe in God only when it suits them (e.g. when in grief or a stressful situation), but are atheists most of the time, and they don't see any problem with that. So, I don't see any problem either in using both notions of free will and determinism as mere tools to build a life worth living. The key is to not overthink while getting lost in the philosophical intricacies, but just do what feels right.
I've been reading the comments and your contribution best articulates for me a rational path to engage the lives we have. THANKS for sharing
I'm not a scientific person and have never truly shown much interest in anything scientific; and I certainly didn't apply myself in any high school science courses. But this man makes science and biology so interesting just from the way he speaks about it. Wish he had been my professor.
Through science, he has realized what Buddhists and Zen have already realized through other means, and that is to be selfless. I absolutely love it.
ugh
Me too. :)
Not exactly. Buddhism or zen philosophy doesn’t answer much on existential questions we have. They just suggest a process.
@@arunbalajir8340 true.
Sam Harris been advocating that, science can teach us better version of morality than religion.
Professor Sapolsky...I'd be so thrilled finding myself sitting right next to you on a loong bus ride to anywhere...I would gladly ask you endless, but meaningful questions & listen to you talk for hours on end...Your pure intellectual "brilliance" has fascinated me for a very long time...
It is always great to hear Sapolsky sharing his thoughts on stuff.
It took them almost 400 years but people are finally begining to understand Spinoza.
It took them 2500 hundred years but people are finally beginning to understand Gautama 😉
@@LordXain True.
@@LordXain He never existed.
@@kingdaleclarke Spinoza existed! He wrote a book, or something....
I would pray to him if only that would magically keep him alive for all eternity spraying his wisdom at us
@Robert B. So you inferred that I pray?
I'll join you, brother
Although I disagree with Dr. Sapolsky on the subject of free will (because of a variety of reasons), I really appreciate him as a scientist and thinker since he points to a problem from a different and informed perspective we haven't solved nor properly tackled yet and hence challenges the idea as such.
Well, whoa... that creates a different future. Thank you to the professor for his excellent lecturing style. Easy cadence on the voice and a liveliness so rare.
“Originally human beings had no purpose. Now, dreaming up some purpose or other, they struggle away trying to find the meaning of life. It is a one-man wrestling match. There is no purpose one has to think about, or go out in search of. You would do well to ask the children whether or not a life without purpose is meaningless.” ― Masanobu Fukuoka, The One-Straw Revolution ; Fukuoka goes on to say "To live life here and now: this is the purpose of life." To me, this attitude has proven life-generating/sustaining, but of course it requires an immediate and direct engagement with life!
Proud to have been #9----great insight!
Iconoclast
Iconoclast
5 seconds ago
I am a materialist myself and have asked these questions and accept the fact that as a species someplace along the line along with consciousness we evolved a need for meaning.
I simply stoically accept that we are really just "THINGS" and yet we can fulfill this need for meaning by doing something meaningful. "If you want life to have meaning do something meaningful". Carl Sagan
If one cannot find meaning in the smile of a child, what pity I have for them!
I also find life less of a burden for I now realize how absurd life is and am more likely to face it with a grin than a grimace. It has been said that to a feeling person life is tragedy and for a thinking person a comedy, I see it as a tragic comedy, yes tragic but still a comedy.
Words I try to live by;
'IF LIFE IS BUT A BITTER JEST LET US FORGET THE BITTERNESS AND REMEMBER THE JEST'
Will Durrantt Nobel Laurette in history
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Pain is painful. Motivation is motivational. Meaning is meaningful etc. Just because we don’t have free will doesn’t mean all of our concepts are meaningless. They still guide our behaviour.
What's the meaning of it all?
'life itself has no meaning. But life is an opportunity to make a meaningful life' - a quote from TikTok. I'm a Godless atheist, and blond. so i just laugh and try not to think about finding meaning where there is none. ☮️🎶-j in southern Japan from my wife's RUclips with her permission of course.☮️🎶we're 10s of trillions of atoms big each and each of us is part the environment which surrounds each of us the environment is made of even more atoms than each of us (my wife & i) are. Bet you didn't know the chemical signal that informs the pancreas to make insulin? it's GTP-1, it's not CHAT GPT 5.3 an Artificial Intelligence, GTP-1 molecules are made when carbohydrates reach the intestines and inform the pancreas ''yo! blood sugar is rising!, how 'bout some insulin?'' The pancreas doesn't even have to ask 'how much insulin do you need?'' the amount is in the amount of GTP-1. And we think we have ''self-awareness''. 🤔 i don't think we understand the meaning of the phrase ''self-awareness''. ☮️🎶
Excellent !!!
What matters to me now is being connected to myself. Aware of my own consciousness. Experiencing life while being in the moment. Caring for someone I’m responsible for. Connection,the thing I didn’t have much of when I was younger.
I’m older now.
However your consciousness is not "you", and therefore the things you do are not because of your own will. (This is a terrible way to go on living.)
Dear man, you have seen me through so many hard times. with your lucidity, humour and incredible smarts. When asked once why you were happy, you said, 'well, I love my job. I exercise every day, and I have a great marriage'. I'm so sorry that one of these essential elements must have failed. So sorry for your grief. I'm so sorry. love to you.
Very honest intellectual! Very grateful for his essay. Understand his position but not his conclusions. Perhaps the purpose of life is to enjoy what you can of it? And most importantly, do that with someone you love. And, after that, try to find ways to love others, including strangers. I am amazed at how effective humans can be at magnifying the ONLY thing that we ALL share in common - suffering in some form. We can do much better at supporting each other - and, I think, with little effort........
Hello Robert Sapolsky. As a Californian from Burlingame living in Europe and stuck in London, I'm a high art classical musician and equally an artist all my life. A musician writes. Keep your curiosity alive and keep it insatiable! Thank you for your honesty and humility and your biology. What did you have for breakfast? 😉
ok, so I've been reading watching every thing about Sapolsky for years.. Dude has to fix me now and get me out of my existential despair or I'm gonna sue him. :)
Get yourself out of your existential despair and speak out against Islam!
Sapolsky has studied your upbringing, genetics, etc. and knows that you are biologically programmed not to sue him. He is not worried.
Scary profound and enlightening at the same time.
Our lifes purpose consisely stated in one short session.
WOW 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I had to watch this a few times... No existential despair... More of a freeing feeling....
Its reassuring to hear this brilliant man come out with all the conclusions i came to myself. I usually use a rollercoaster to illustrate how to deal with it, we all can enjoy a rollercoaster ride, the ups and downs, the scary bits and the elation of it all without ever feeling the need to think that were driving it. Enjoy the ride! Youre not in control but its a hell of a ride.
Good analogy!
I nominated Robert for the top psychiatric doctor position employed by the federal government because of your wisdom and knowledge I don't know if it'll go anywhere but it's at least my push in the right direction for the evolution of mankind I believe
I woke up this morning and didn't go to work. Feeling awful and anxious and depressed as is very common with me. I've been trying to write a book on reducing suffering, with the concept of no free will as the main factor, and was finding so many reasons to just give up and live a simple life if possible. But Roberts simple "pain is painful" just gives me a little hope again. Maybe it could help someone one day if I'm able to finish it.
Hello, how is the work on the book going?
Some time ago I just discovered and accepted that there is no FREE WILL. Very difficult to be accepted by people. Thanks to my Buddhist practise! 🙏🏽
Namo Amituofo
This man is intelligent and wise beyond words. Wow. Thankful for this content. This is what the internet is for
i think his views lead to mass existential despair -a very depressing view of the world - the scientific meytod cannot disprove the spiritual as it by defintion only measures the world of the normal senses - his reductionist categorical thinking is flawed by his own standards
see stanford lectures
@@rabbidannyb ya I’ve seen the lectures. I’m not necessarily saying his view is a complete and the proper treatment of reality. What I’m saying is it contributes to one’s worldview-
a refinement, so to speak.
One would need more research and introspection imo for a “final” view (which I don’t think is possible anyway given that ifs more of a journey than a destination)
@@rabbidannyb I don't know why his view would be so 'depressing.' To me, it's rather uplifting and liberating. Not shomer Shabbos...E
I regret not realizing that Sapolsky was at Stanford when I was a student there... I didn't even make the connection when I bought two of his books from the Stanford Bookstore: Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers and Monkeyluv.... I would have at least, as a biological organism...stopped by his office to say hello........................
funfact: his wife's name is also Lisa
But the moment probably would have been just so structured that he would have been on sabbatical that day.
Thanks for uploading this Sapolsky golden nugget. It’s ironic how to a theist, this viewpoint is seen as a nihilistic and sad, but to me, this worldview is simply empowering.
Sapolsky is what I imagine God would be like if he wanted to forget he was God and be mortal for a lifetime.
Oh!! Yes, I agree!
You know about Jezus, right? still, his Jewish backround and his way of telling thing's. Is indeed done out of good will and is one of the thing's what Jezus did for us. I think he will get into haven becauce of his good wil.
@@rickelijah4270 Jezus is just alright with me
Sapolsky has changed my life. I have never met him but he has a tremendously influence in my daily thinking now. I see Us. vs. Them dychotomies everywhere and I think about people like little primates with the ability for language and complex social relationships. The way I see it, the way he taught me, every single one of us is a little system that started with unique initial variables and as we grew and interacted with other systems, we became the great or fucked up person we are. It's hard to properly explain but he has made me change the perspective of how I see the world. I still suffer everyday with depression but listening to his lectures and reading his books has removed a lot of weight from my shoulders. Greetings from Colombia.
Hurray, you’re not a programmed, consumer zombie idealogue. The most powerful nation on earth (where greed is glorified) turns out to have been (no excuses anymore) designed to make the people born into the culture of the American Dream & others who buy into it, sick in body, mind & soul. How can one NOT BE depressed??? “Turning & turning in the widening gyre ... Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold, Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world ... & everywhere, The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction while the worst Are full of passionate intensity .... “ (WB Yeats, 1919). Hello Chaos theory.
Our behaviors, our lifestyles, our way of life is not sustainable, is killing us & destroying the planet, fauna, flora, species, eventually which makes us all in denial, complicit in the end, & the more we know & learn & comprehend, unfortunately, the more depressed, the worse it gets. What it means to be human in this age (plasticene, ha ha) of science & tech is suffer the result of knowing.
@@marileesteele1804 OH dear, I've read most of the comments and yours is a reality check in the gut...Wishing the best for you and everyone as we go down the drain.
Let's give our all to reduce the level of pain for all beings animals and humans equally much.
there is a lot to this. if animals cannot contribute to the reduction of pain for all, then we should first focus on those who can.
Nicki - Let's say we're giving our all, but actually just spread platitudes on the internet every now and then while living our lives in near total self-absorption.
nah let's make facile youtube comments instead!
samthepoor - I'm not excusing myself here. The problem is not simply a lack of understanding of the problem that we need to reduce suffering , the problem is the total self absorption and egocentrism of humankind.
Burak Tao - Pain is a part of life, sure. There's a huge distinction is the pain of say, eating a spicy Thai dish, or the pain of a really brutal strength training workout, and the pain of a horrible accident or some destructive disease. Eradicating pain completely is very narrowminded. The key really is pointless suffering.
12 years ago Robert Sapolsky inspired me to study Neuroscience and now hold a degree. The study never stops. It is life’s challenge for me.
Do you believe in free will?
@@freandwhickquest As far as independent thinking yes. The group think is something else altogether, as yet to be defined.
@@Markart50 what do you think about the non-materalist philosophical theories of mind?
@@freandwhickquest Philosophical variables are extremely tantalising but are just that.
I wonder if it's too late, at 50, to begin charting a course to learn neuroscience. When I first discovered it was a thing, like recently, it was like a flood light was turned on in my head.
Here something I was rolling in my mind, trying to find an answer to weather there is a free will. First (and way too early in life) I came to the conclusion that there is, in fact, no free will. This realization came from pretty much the same reasons that our dear Sapolsky states: we are the products of our genetics, environment, up bringing, life events etc. and so, to every new given situation there should be only one outcome, one that is derived from the sum of ourselves.
BUT THEN I though, what if there is more than just one reasonable outcome? That is, what if there are a few with the same exact probability? Is this where we DO have free will and thus believe that we do in other situations too? I mean, considering that there are so many factors that influence us, it seems probable that some situations will result in a few equally probable response choices, right?
Probability does not exist in physical world as much as a perfect circle or a straight line. I challenge you to think of an example of situation in which you could clearly say that is based on pure probability.
Coin toss or dice roll is not a good example. Whenever you toss a coin, you activate an experiment in deterministic system, where you abdicate to examine physical factors that would determine the outcome (initial strength of toss, air resistance, path for coin to travel, rotating speed etc).
Picking up a coin from a table, looking at it and putting it back carefully is an exact equivalent of a coin toss also if you think about it.
Quantum theory uses term 'probability' in the exact same manner so please don't bring it up for this reason (besides other problems tossing quantum physics argument right and left by about everyone on the planet brings about, while there are serious indications that there was never a human being to understand it).
@@kerel995 I'm a biologist so probability for me has, let's say, fuzzy edges. I agree that the strictly mathematical probability I think you meant, really doesn't exist (outside maths). And I definitely know nothing about quantum theory.
What I was talking about was more of a thought experiment, I guess ( or science fiction, maybe). That is, if we could, somehow, account for all the factors that make us us is this moment - genetics, upbringing, hormones, our mood, what we ate today etc. - would we be able to predict what one will do or choose? Does it sum up to just one "choice" or a few overlapping ones? Like, if we had a crazy powerful computer and the most sophisticated algorithm that knows everything about us, could it predict out actions? There has to be a stochastic element, I guess, and maybe that's where we feel we have free will?
Lucky to be biologist :) envy you
Regarding your earlier entry, I think incrementation of factors / variables in the system does not really change nature of reasoning.
Let's imagine that a plank can hold up to 1kg of mass before breaking. It should not really matter where that mass comes from or how we measure it. If we put 1kg bag of sugar on it, it should break. Similarly, after measurement of 10^42 individual particles, rays, waves, intergalactic gravitational pulls and other forces and determine that we are at the 1kg sweet spot, I don't think that we should expect more than 1 outcome just by virtue of making our computation more complicated.
Knowledge of chaos theory is useful to deal with some basic notions and some intuitions with regards to overwhelimg scales of some deterministic modelling.
I am kind of also a heretic to full determinism but due to different reason. Determinism seems to me so absolutely certain that i start to doubt it out of fear for locking myself in some ignorance bubble.
Still, if there were two possible outcomes to one set of values in equation, in what other way can it be presented? Toss a coin and get hands AND tails as a result? Roll a six sided die and have it land on 8th side? (All edges and ridges excluded).
Also, when reaching out to probability it is may be beneficial to always be aware and cautious that results we imagine are theoretical constructs. In fact, tossing a coin we have ifinite number of possible outcomes that we group artificially in a similar way we group odd and even numbers. Flat surfaces does not exist and there should be infinite number of positions our coin can land. But we simplify them to the binary.
Another thought: world may not be deterministic at all. Like, no single locality of deterministic phenomenon in entire universe. But our brains are set to process all information using hardwired model of causality.
From religious sacrifices to understanding of physics, we analyze factors determining outcomes with greater and greater precision.
If we discover that indeed, 1kg of sugar sometimes breaks the board and sometimes not, it is about as strong as survival instinct to ask 'why'? Maybe we did not measure sugar precisely enough? Maybe planet was closer to the gravitational pull, maybe board has free will? And if it has free will, at what time of the day or in pressence of which lab assistant will it more likely decide to break? See? I don't think there is any chance to escape this way of thinking.
Galia, you make an excellent point...I think that Sapolsky would embrace it.
My favorite youtube professor… learn so much from him.
Even if there is no free will, it only makes sense to live life as if you have free will.
Why?
@@FourDogs1111 "Believing in irrational thing will damage you."If true we would all be damaged beyond repair. Amos Versky and Daniel Kahneman work is something to look into. Dan Ariely is another person of interest. Please look into these people, than think about how irrational we are as people. Why do you think we as people have a multitude of different ways in understanding life?
@@TPGNATURAL ~ Let's just say -- try to do what's good.
@@martinzitter4551 I agree, do no harm
@Nobody Unknown Hello, I have no idea why you left these comments to me. It has nothing to do with any of my comments. Could you tell me how your thinking brought about these comments. I get to adjust my thinking to some degree every week. Because I know I am a collage of culture, tradition, experience, memory, physical environment, brain structure and biology. I know I am leaving something out. Anyways shake all of these different things together. And presto.
Im enjoying his lectures....
Everything is nothing
Nothing is everything
He discribed it in pure
This provides a good underpinning to why an Epicurean approach to life can make sense. We’re here, it’s essentially meaningless, how can maximize contentment (not hedonistic pleasure),
I think regardless of total influence, the idea that pain is painful can be taken even further to say that what we experience as beauty and goodness and badness in general are all still experienced with influence on us. It is the very fact that things are not free/separate that allows for a coherent understanding of good and bad. I really don't think that lack of free will in any way negates a purpose of reducing badness AND supporting goodness. In fact, understanding the connection (even perhaps beyond specifically biological relatedness) of all things can really enhance the desire to support such a purpose for all life and to expand our definition of "us" which Sapolsky refers to in other contexts.
I agree. Thanks for your comment
An important point to make here (and I believe Dr, Sapolsky has made this point as well, altough not right here) is that just beacuse there is no free will, that doesn't mean there is no will! Willpower is very important, and those who have more of it will generally accomplish more, and be more satisfied with life, than those who have less.
Sapolsky's very imprtant point is that the strength of our will , and the shape and orientation of it, is a biological accident, no different than our height, or our shoe size, and therefore our will can can never be "free". Our will is always nothing more the sum total of all of our influences, both genetic and experiential. But it is still will. And it is still ours.
Very useful comment contribution..Thank you..
At the end of the day, the purpose of life is simply life itself
This.
👍
even though there might not be free will, we human possess the ability to recognize the utility in doing good works for other beings and nurture a respect for the planet
Thank you!! I RUclips “Robert sapolsky” atleast 1-2x per month. :)
Wonderful talk - very insightful. I think if you work with an infinite mindset and that that we are all interdependent, then the issue of wanting cheating the system when you think you don’t have free will, will disappear as you are ultimately just going to be creating more pain in the future.
Interestingly only yesterday I came to the biological conclusion, I didn't fall apart but shed a whole lot of judgement and guilt, I often marvel at the seemingly random coincidences to be felt on youtube, although a month ago I did watch Sapolsky's first lecture in the Stanford course in Human Behavioural Biology, so easy to imagine how this new realisation may have come to form recently, and I have to thank youtube for leading me to some great knowledge, while at the same time condemning them for trying to lead me astray many times, and I am out as to whether RUclips has totally malicious intent or is just another 'biologically' flawed model?
Very good! Interesting to view in relation to fate and destiny.
I find that I don't have, so much, a sense of free will; but more an ignorance of the mechanisms that form my will.
Yay for the love of realizing scientific determinism will set you free, and give you peace that surpasses all understanding of the current model.
This man is so awesome I can't even...
love you so much 🙏 you are a fantastic teacher
There's no freewill but there's no one actually there to begin with. Our sense of self is smoke and mirrors. You are nature.
You beatiful piece of nature just helped me remember
@@m.backwoods I got you fam
Nature that can have a sense of self, just like some other animals
"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control."
-Albert Einstein
There may not be any such thing as free will, but I'm hard wired to want to believe that there is!
The slow pan to Dr. Sapolsky at the end made it even better!
How to avoid existential despair? Enjoy the ride and do your best to avoid injury to self and other.
You my sir are a man
Er - your existential despair is just the food you ate this morning. Solution - stop eating and I guarantee you it will go away.
I struggled with the problem of free will for more than a decade , back from early 90s to early 0ς .
Was I nothing more than a cellular automaton ?
Everything was pointing in that direction ,so then another question rose...is my course in life predetermined? Can an other being sufficiently smarter than me given all the data of my past and my surroundings able to accurately define my life?
In that question layed the seeds to the answer to my free will dillema..
I was a student of physics back then , struggling with the newly discovered notions of chaos theory .
I knew i was embedded in a whole system..I could never think of my self as an individual ,there for , to contemplate if I have a free Will or not was meaningless
I thought...
"I am an integral part of a whole.. i am not influenced by it... I am it...I am the appendix of the whole universe...I go back to the beginning of the cosmos...
My brain is the entity that is trying to predetermine how my life will play out...every animal is doing exactly that..Its trying to simulate its surroundings ,in order to gain ..its is something i was evolved to....its a biology...its physics...I am competing with other versions of me ..in trying to guess the future for my benefit...there is no free Will for an individual...there is individual guessing for the course of your Life...the universe is an organism made out of others organisms...its computations on a quantum scale...in the end everything is information and correlations ."
You can really see it's a question that pains him in the end.
To 'keep on going, just because I don't like' pain sounds like a very gloomy, puny philosophy.
And I know he's trying to justify living on a rational argument, but what reason is there even to see life from such a distant viewpoint? I am in big favor of the sciences , but they are, like Sapolsky says himself, an abstraction of reality; a convenient lens through which phenomena can be explained. When you walk through this world you never see any clash of the atoms or an evolutionary force that is behind your wheel. All you have is a world of senses, thoughts and feelings. So in my opinion you should stick to that reality when trying to find a sense in your being. And isn't a world in which you get to choose your own meaning a better one compared to one where your meaning has been set in advance for you by some entity, even though it's the much more difficult scenario?
And I have mixed feelings about the free will topic:
I agree mostly with what he is saying: I think it's scientifically inevitable to conclude that there is no free will.
But the justice system still holds practical value; good behavior should still be rewarded and bad punished.
Punishing someone for having an epileptic fit while driving won't have any positive effect, whereas by punishing a thief for example you are making the next robbery more unlikely.
Words like 'fault' and 'accomplishment' still hold their value, if we only keep in mind in what sense they are used, namely that 'having a will' doesn't mean there is a small homunculus sitting inside your head driving that biological machine.
The answer is experiential rather than rational but you have to nail the rational part for the mind to get tired to feel the experience maybe?
Both amazingly interesting comments. Thanks for sharing guys.
I think the problem is that when we talk about "punishing" we are talking about a means of satisfying an emotional impulse and not acting according to what would be "rational". Punishing an inmate for having killed someone, depriving him of his liberty, of the people he cares about ... rarely succeeds in correcting behaviors that we see as incorrects, and more so considering the great amalgam of crimes that There are and all possible reasons why they can be committed. Perhaps it would make sense to lock up an irreparable psychopath, since as social beings it would be useless to keep him inside the collective, but what would be the point of locking up a young man who has killed in an impulsive act, distancing him from his family and friends for a large part of their life? We could be creating inestable little brothers, or angry friends that would use that as an excuse to perpetuate more violence.
I think what we should do is completely change our notion of "punishment" and, in fact, replace it with something that is useful for society. Why is there less violence in more pleasant communities? Perhaps it has to do with how externalities affect our behavior? Wouldn't it be more useful to try to connect criminals with an empathetic reality and make them feel useful by ... I don't know, using their capacities to keep building our society?
Most of the people who are currently in prison aren't there because their confinement is going to contribute something to society. In fact, perhaps we are depriving ourselves of many brilliant minds with traumatic pasts. If they are in prison, it is for the satisfaction of "punishing" conducts that we consider immoral and not to reform them.
@Kremig Mitsahne I agree with your train of thought. He actually gave us the answer at the last few seconds even though he doesn't admit it. Free will only comes into play in that we can choose to look at where we cause pain, in ourselves, in others. Are we causing pain by only thinking in terms of how we benefit from a particular act? If our goal is to eliminate pain in ourselves and other beings, we must be, imo, thinking of the effects on others. Service to only self is an ignorant stance. We can choose to be more service to others and gain satisfaction to the degree we are individually programmed biologically, that results in the feeling of being satisfied with our choices. If we wield that power to act in that context we can experiment with our choices intentionally to find that sweet spot.
Additionally, I wanted to add my 2 cents on venerating a character such as Mr. Sapolsky which many do. I have studied his lectures and he does have tremendous knowledge! My question is; if he's as clueless about the fundamental questions of life we all ultimately feel the need to find the answer to, then to what end does all his inhumane experimentation to gain his wealth of info about human biology does it serve? He's had a storied career, no doubt was paid well, respected as an authority worldwide yet in the end clueless. Contemplate that for a minute. I welcome non emotional responses. Thanks.
He's pained as you say i believe because he may realize all his life work is really useless in the end. All the pain himself he served by manipulating and tricking the human and animal subjects in the name of science is probably going to haunt him for eternity. I am aware of the implications of that and thus have always listened to his lectures in that context so that i dont unwittingly celebrate inhumane experimentation to non free will humans and beasts since i am a human myself and have been subjected to some of that in the past. Most likely my motivation was to see where it got him. Now I feel satisfied that my earlier intuitions were not far off. Thanks.
Libertarian free will is nonsense. But even though we don't have this absolute free will, it doesn't change that I absolutely enjoy learning about this world we find ourselves in. The fact that an incomprehensible concatenation of causes, which I did not control, created me in this moment and that doesn't really change anything for me. I love laughing and enjoying people's company and good conversation and learning and trying to make life better for myself and those around me. The fact that I don't have free will doesn't change that. I'm just enjoying the experience, and I don't feel the need to be responsible in some way that transcends the laws of physics, in order to be happy.
Yes....YES!!! Concatenation is the word!
Life needs no meaning to be, it needs no purpose other than to simply live it. Only a complex, sophisticated mind can create the concepts of meaning and purpose, but these concepts belong to the realm of relativity and do not apply to the absolute realm. What creates a lot of confusion and frustration is when we mix up what is true on a conventional level with ultimate truth. When we lose sight of neither we maintain a balance and harmony that is a reflection of the totality; we operate not from the point of view of individuality but from the standpoint of the universal.
Packed a whole lot into 10 minutes. Great quasi interview.
Clarence Darrow wrote about crime in a framework of no free will. It is called "Address to Prisioners" and can be found on the internet.
Thank you for the link. I'm trying to put together a presentation for a criminology presentation and this was interesting.
@Cliff Hanley Why unwise?
@Cliff Hanley Well that's fine I suppose, but doesn't it involve a kind of double-thought.
@Cliff Hanley By double-think I understand acting as though A wasn't true, even when you think A is true.
@Cliff Hanley What you say sounds a lot like William James.
My sense is that my mind is not free but my awareness is free from choices, so my awareness is free and me. Choices cause determinism and so you can’t choose a choice as the choice determines which one you choose. With that in mind I give up the fight against determinism in the material realm of mind and in doing so, act as if I’m free so that society functions yet reap the benefits being that I view my mistakes not with guilt but necessity. My meaning is what I do in a meaningless world. No existential dread anymore and I’m certain this paragraph does not sum up my journey to this mental status.
I feel like there is an 'Its nothing but‘ syndrome happening here, which extinguishes emotional value senses. What about value in personal situational potentials? A cheekbone compliment reminds you that you currently have the power to inspire the average human in a very particular way, given that you keep those cheekbones. Thats really why you might feel good, current potential cheekbone abilities, not cheekbone development history, not genetics, not environment conditions. It really doesnt matter if "you" are not at fault, its the situation potentials we are ultimately concerned with.
We are always becoming something else and we are products of our environment. Lack of awareness can be a detriment as well.
the form we become in the future is not the same form that committed the crime.
the perceptual Paradigm of excessive individualism is an oversimplification logical fallacy as well as scientifically illiterate. Multidisciplinary science is required to understand why this statement is axiomatic.
I've made all of this as succinct and simple as I possibly can at my Channel. Watch it or not, the awareness of these teachings is spreading and you will absorb them regardless. 😉
Beyond Psychology you said it very poetically, we become a different form. However, we still have the situation. proof that someone is capable of a fault. how do we fix them, and how to tell its a success. if we cant fix someone with a fault, what do we do? disable their chassis?, thats currently what we do if the problem is bad enough. likewise, we will still feel good about our cheekbones, even if theyre fake. ill have to check your channel out
cheek bones are from your parents, nothing more.
@Maria Callous Change their medicine. Get right this time. Don't play Russian roulette with medicines that can cause paranoia. But just because one is paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you. i went to the police and the phone shop. the phone shop employee saw my Facebook was hacked. and i couldn't report to the ic3.gov. first it was
redirected after that the screen would flash and reset information. That's not cool. The phone shop employee saw that occur. Also the local police saw i couldn't even get to the ic3.gov it would flash blue, but nothing else would happen. it wouldn't
open. In fact none of the sites worked. not just the ic3.gov. i would Appreciate it if they would stop hacking me. Is there anything that they want from me or have they taken it?
I am a materialist myself and have asked these questions and accept the fact that as a species someplace along the line along with consciousness we evolved a need for meaning.
I simply stoically accept that we are really just "THINGS" and yet we can fulfill this need for meaning by doing something meaningful. "If you want life to have meaning do something meaningful". Carl Sagan
I also find life less of a burden for I now realize how absurd life is and am more likely to face it with a grin than a grimace. It has been said that to a feeling person life is tragedy and for a thinking person a comedy, I see it as a tragic comedy, yes tragic but still a comedy.
Words I try to live by;
'IF LIFE IS BUT A BITTER JEST LET US FORGET THE BITTERNESS AND FORGET THE JEST'
Will Durrant Nobel Laurette in history
This guy could get anyone off a murder case being a professor for 1 . The endless angles he could say why it wasn’t the persons fault and confusing the judge jury and executioner with knowledge that we are controlled and nothing would have stopped that murder from happening
It's very interesting to read comments on such a complex topic. As a psychologist myself, I tend to fully agree with him, because what stands behind "free will" and in particular "lack of free will" should not be taken literally. The way our brain is wired is super complex, but yet we have our desires, we are "driven" by desires, wishes. However, once we start looking into the background we simply won't have enough time to put the puzzle together. I think we simply to comfort ourselves believing we have a free will, while instead it's a whole generation of my ancestors that wired my brain + current environment. I do not have any disorders thus I'm fitting "well" into current society and vast majority would rather feel that I do have my free will. Should I suffer from schizophrenia, vast majority would say I do not have free will because I suffer from a disorder. The brain is the same, "disease" is not "someone above" driving my behaviour, but it's rather now behaviour standing out from social norms. The only thing I have realised so far, the better I know myself better I understand my own wishes and desires, that helps me to accept what I am. I do believe that our brain needs to comfort us, hence rationalisation of our thoughts, emotions, situation and namely same exact topic of a "free will", it's comforting. Just like God and creation of Bible was.
How can one reduce the pain of others if one has no free will?
maybe we don't have any free will in our decisions good or bad ?
I can't get enough of him talking about stuff 😱
How do I explain proof of this lack of free will fact to get out of jury duty? I'm not comfortable judging people to begin with, let alone when there is consequences for them.
We are a way for the universe to view itself. I believe we are here to create A I which will enable interstellar exploration. Whether we as humans will be a part of that or in what form has yet to be determined.
You must all look into the field of epigenetics . Its the study of changes in a individual caused by modification
of gene expression rather then alteration of the genetic code itself. As all of you know most of our behaviors
are encoded by genes. Basically what this means is that we can reprogram and rewrite our script if you will.
More importantly, we should be studying the mitochondria and gene expression.
He just stated that many atheists are responsible human beings too without having any feeling of accountability to God. The reason behind this is that all humans are created with the natural innate disposition to acknowledge the clear "good and bad" things normally
We have no free will to reject free will. Problem solved.
We can still live life "as though" we had free will, and to me that is meaningful. The empirical illusion of free-will is not dispelled by careful logical analysis; only the delusion of having individual causal agency is dispelled. Fiction can be enjoyed as fiction. If someone compliments your smile, just play the game and thank them with a wider smile.
That's not gonna fly with OCD-prone people...
@@edjrage7745 they can take more omega 3, magnesium, vitamin d3 -- eliminate diet stressors like gluten and dairy -- and fuck off
I agree with your assessment
In the red corner Carl "The Dreamer" Jung
and in the blue corner Bobby " the blob of biological mass" Sapolsky!!!
What a fight we have here today folks.
Robert Sapolsky would find a way to make peace with Carl Jung. Because at the end of the day pain is painful. Let's try to reduce the amounts of it in this world. Here's your Olive Branch. Peace.
Jung believed in free will? Can you quote him or elaborate in his position?
@@GH69107 and @Angelinarobert
No doubt there would be peace between the two. I was speaking metaphorically about their differences of opinion with regard meaning and purpose. It's my view that they couldn't be more opposite when it comes their outlook on the meaning of life. On the one hand Sapolsky says we're just biological creatures with no purpose and it's my impression that Carl Jung has a far more enlightening sense of (wo) man's purpose. The reason I mentioned red and blue corners was because I thought they could have a a very interesting discussion about spirituality, existence etc. They are two favourites of mine when it comes to their work. But they couldn't be more opposite, in a way.
@@Blainelyne I get you, I'm a fan of Jung too even though reading him at certain times seems useless. But he has some great ideas.
@@GH69107 I've given a few of his books a go as well and found his last book, 'modernan in search of a soul' to be the one which I would recommend to people. It touches off of all of his ideas and was written for the general public rather than as a collection of scientific papers.
The absence of free will does not remove the consequences of actions. It also does not remove the ability to learn from the consequences so the responsibility to learn from consequences. Rules and responsibility are measured out according to capacity. This is why punishment is different for children than adults.
That look on his face at 10:32, literally changed me
It was the look of a very wise rabbi who has come to the conclusion that it’s all a mystery.
It is one of Sapolsky's best moments for me.. thanks for the link
@@PabluchoViision Yes! Life's a mystery
@@PabluchoViision Or better----a 'joke.'
He has gotten the 'joke.'
Peace.
Its not a depressing concept. We are all still unique based on all the biological influences u mentioned. In fact its liberating. We have been fighting biology when could be learning from it to succeed best.
I love you, Robert! You are my greatest hero!
I can't see how he's not completely depressing
Robert sapolsky is a wonderful lecturer a very intelligent man and has also affected my intellectual oscillation state.
Watch out for hero worship though. look it up if you don't know what I'm talking about. Read up on the dangers of it. Just looking out for ya.
Less important to man, more importantly thought. Even more important is what you do with the thought.
@@NathansHVAC well, he has a lot going on for him. People respect him. He understands things at a very deep level. Understanding yields solace.
Robert sapolsky is also displaying logical fallacy here.
Don't worry, it's not depressing because he's not being completely accurate and I don't think that he considers these thoughts to be facts but rather just part of the puzzle of which is being processed right now. Robert sapolsky is completely capable of changing his mind.
Check this out. This will help you. ruclips.net/video/seTZzJfeUmY/видео.html
It doesn't really matter if there is no free will as long as we feel we have a choices. The world around us feels sufficiently random enough that our every day life is something we feel like we control.
But what is inspiration and motivation and the relentless creative spirit? When pain and discomfort is endured for a higher calling. Athletes, artists, philosophers and even scientists that lock themselves in a process that can potentially harm them and cause them pain. If this man has somehow used his obvious high intellect to come to a conclusion that he has no purpose other than to tell me I have no purpose then what a waist. Of what use is your point of view Dr Sapolsky to me or to anyone in an existential struggle? If we are to embrace this nihilistic approach we will become extinct. To understand and accept our short comings and limitations but then to strive to overcome them is the quest that we are on. However small that flicker of determination to endure and to overcome is our will.
it's biology
@Daniel And the alternative is what? Run around making up fairly tales? There are some harsh truths in this universe but the non-existence of free will doesn't need to be one of them. Accepting this fact, as Sam Harris would note "undercuts the basis of hatred" and in contrast, pride and other useless emotions. The non-existence of free will is actually quite a liberating fact if you allow yourself to frame it that way.
@Daniel There's nothing "wrong" per se with making up fairly tales until it becomes divisive and dogmatic (which happens ALL THE TIME). And I may need to do more research on this but I don't think making up and worshiping religions is a universal fact at the individual level. Some personality types make and take the information and try to drum it into the rest of us. If you don't believe what they believe then you run the risk of being an outcast, which speaking in evolutionary terms is something we want to avoid at all costs. And I can tell you from a first person perspective, believing in "fairy tales" does nothing for my psychological well-being. Truth, whatever it may be, is all i'm particularly interested in, no matter how harsh the truth might be. Truth allows to assess situations clearly and use the tools at our disposal to deal with them. For example, I agree that having the belief you may see a loved one after you die doesn't really pose a threat to the rest of society or to yourself, but if you can believe this with no sufficient evidence, what else might you believe that could be harmful?
To your second point, i'm not sure how from what I said you derived that I think all wisdom in ancient religious text are "fairly tales". Surely you know i'm talking about unobservable, unprovable metaphysical claims like heaven, hell, life after death, rebirth, a big man in the sky. I know that the Buddha and Jesus and other mystical figure's have absolutely stood the test of time in philosophy, psychology, spirituality etc. But a lot of these ideas are testable and/or observable, even if only from a first person perspective. I'm not CERTAIN that heaven or hell (or some other metaphysical doctrine) doesn't exist, but a "high-minded" :) individual like myself damn sure needs to see some evidence for it, which at this point is painfully lack-luster.
Also I don't think one needs to fill the void with pharmaceuticals, alcohol, sex, food, although I might add all of those are pretty great. Mr. Buddha came up with a technique over 2,500 years ago called mindfuless meditation which is used extensively to look at our plight with more peace and equanimity. We don't need some ULTIMATE meaning or purpose, we just need to realize the rarity and beauty of life in the present moment.
beautifully said, if not entirely well-stated. everyone thinks they know something-then why are we all so obviously wrong? words like should and good and bad and intelligent...subjective much? fleeting at best, and best to remember how little we actually understand, like where the words that i'm using to write this, right now, have come from. nye the whence, and when? nary a guess. perhaps god is a poet, endlessly f-in with us.
Good man. Probably the best in nowadays
Great talk, love your lectures, Professor. I don’t understand your concern about crime in a world with no free will. If all behavior is a result of biology and environment and there is no free will, shouldn’t we just try and change the criminal’s environment? Sure it takes some study to do, but for practical purposes if we want certain behaviors to happen and not others (and it does not make a diference if we want freely or not) we just need to find the environment that fosters those behaviors, first in general and secondarily in special cases.
I know I'm late to the party here, but, one of the problems with just changing their environment is this: those who are socially conditioned to be criminals become comfortable in their dysfunction and a safe environment will still produce defensive reactions. Smaller offenses activate the same biological processes which cause adverse reactions. They often have a history of childhood neglect and trauma. Just as dopamine spikes with the anticipation of a reward, epinephrine and norepinephrine do the same in response to anticipation of a threat. Their over reactions will escalate until they erupt like a volcano creating a breaking point where they may choose to either change by practicing better habits, or remain obstinant. Their social support system is responsible for helping to re-condition maladaptive behavior once the individual reaches this breaking point. In order to produce this effect, one must imprison the individual, effectively holding them against their will and forcing this potentially dangerous response. Who would be dedicated enough to produce this reaction in a dangerous adult, and risk their own lives to reform criminals? Spouses of abusers are often willing to stick it out and risk their own life in hopes of influencing behavior modification, but few outside this group are as dedicated to the reformation of criminals.
We have wilderness camps for youth beginning at the age of 12 which are built to provide a safe environment to addicts and deviants. One of these camps is in Virginia, it's called The Discovery School. If we, as a society, could recognize the value of these programs on a wider scale, we may be able to reform criminals through providing a safe environment and offering them the social skills necessary to succeed in society. As it stands, we lack the social support upon release for the few individuals who have been accepted into an adult version of these programs (there is one in Florida which I don't recall the name of, but requires sentencing to be accepted). Criminal charges often cause individuals to struggle after release due to the social stigma which leads to recidivism. Same goes for addiction, lack of social support and returning to the same dysfunctional environment causes the individual to become triggered and return to the same maladaptive behavior to cope with their distress.
TLDR; It is not as simple as providing a safe environment.
The world would be exactly the same as it is now just defined differently
@@The.frostedrose Thanks for sharing your thoughts
A practical concept of free will for the individual is to try to think something through, come to a conclusion and carry it through, even when it is very hard.
F.e. visit a course when you are tired from working.
This ability, this willpower depends on your genes, family, education and surrounding.
That is why many people have no chance at all.
It is necessary to put dangerous people away. Not because they are bad.
The pain principle is useful and not new.
Basically the same as utilitarianism (bentham/mill).
Theories and dogmas chain is down. Don't always think in a single perspective, the whole picture might be larger than you thought.
Sapolsky says this in one of his lectures. He says, when you pay too much attention to boundaries, you don't see the bigger picture; all you see are categories.
Wow, great video!
Where's your compassion Robert? You''re in favor of "life" where suffering is the norm and all animals make a living by destroying the life of some other living thing usually in a brutal and painful way. I agree with your thoughts on free will.
I love your honesty and lectures as opposed to many many shrinks you get six different ones and you will get six different diagnosis they all think they know what they're talking about and never do they there to admit their human and that is something that they just don't know it's really nice listening to someone brutally honest for a change without the PHD shrink I went to school and I know everything ain't you can't tell me I'm glad I came across your lectures and overall I agree a lot with you I wish you had more answers but fingers crossed that you'll figure it out lol I love love your honesty it's refreshing for a change!
99% of organisms go extinct. no one's asking you to stay alive. it's up to you to find a reason for being for yourself and free will isn't a requirement to living a worthwhile life.
It's not all so hopeless at least we have our illusions nobody can take that away from us.
I’m baffled. Feeling like an amoeba now...
As you well should
Because we all are
I avoid existential despair with art and music, invention and comedy. Buddhists tell us to "end the suffering of all sentient beings."
Looks like to me that Bob had deficient dopamine and serotonin receptors on that day!
Although absence of free will means that what we have done was unavoidable at the time, it doesn’t mean that understanding causes of behavior negates accountability. Evil remains evil, good remains good, A serial killer may not have a choice about killing, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be locked up. Understanding behavior doesn’t excuse it. What changes is that now there is no basis for being angry at the perpetrator, allowing us to more calmly examine the options for dealing with the offense and offender, and more wisely choose our actions and policies. By the same token, heroic acts or great artistry will still be admired, but the “hero worship” can be toned down and the accomplishments seen for what they more truly are: the brilliance of the universe focussed through a fortunate individual.
Sapolsky is incredible
I don't normally answer trolls, but you've earned it. You don't speak against my hero, Robert Sapolsky. He's a world-class neuro-endocrinologist, his IQ is through the roof, he's done multiple discoveries on the endocrine system, he's written several books, contributed valuable information for human well-being ... and you call him a jackass?
You're the jackass. Now apologize.
That's the best response you could muster?
I gave you a chance to engage with me. You're obviously incapable of intelligent arguments for "why" you think Sapolsky is a "jackass," or of making your point clearly beyond ad-hominems. Therefore, this conversation is over.
Have a nice day!
it could simply be a different way of approaching the decisions we make? This information makes me want to gather experiences and information to steer my brain in a different perspective or shake things up. This makes me hopeful