LoL, can you imagine asml doing youtube sponsorships? "Next time you're setting up a fab, consider asml" as though they were a meal delivery or vpn service. Hahaha.
I've gotten Jane Street ads before... Not to buy their product, but to try to recruit me. As mentioned in the video, finding and retaining good engineers is tough, and definitely worth some marketing budget.
Yep, greedy shareholders derail the company's long term stability entirely for short term windfalls, only to jump as it goes off the cliff to another company and start the process all over again. Modern "venture capital" firms are basically gangs of greedy shareholders who have industrialized such destruction.
'unlocking' must not be bad. It can enable the growth of the new company. E.g. Toyota and Daimler owned a part of Tesla. But, keeping a part (maybe max 25%) of the spin off, could make sense.
Unlocking value…. Was the code words for merger, followed by lay-offs… who needs the acquired company’s finance department or sales organizations? They are the first to go… If you now have two research organizations… combining them, and selling off the excess property is bean counter heaven! Down size… right size… Employees with this experience learn how to optimize taking the package… severance pay, re-education expenses, health insurance… The 80s was a wild time…. 😃
I think a thing to understand here is that unless it was spun out, you would not have had the right leadership or hiring opportunities to create ASML. If you didn't have a CEO that gave 100% priority to lithography would it had happened? If you could not have hired all new engineers with 100% focus on lithography could it have happened? What about personal rivalries and female middle/project managers promoted to the level of incompetence? Companies like Philips are like giant oiltanker ships or aircraft carriers... they take days just to make a small turn. You needed a cigarette boat to create ASML because nothing like it had been done before. So, this really did "unlock shareholder value". It let Philips focus on things they do well while also creating a new company to do something new that it could do well (which many Philips investors likely invested in right after the spin out - especially sophisticated investors running tech/growth investment funds). The politics in companies as large as Philips can kill any idea or emerging tech no matter how good. I'm glad ASML spun out and got away from the politics.
@@viktoreisfeld9470 almost as if their original point of being "terribly ran" is exactly what your "politics and slow moving" means.. not to mention that their squanderings aren't just the spinning out, which is fine, but the selling off of their stocks in the spinoffs, which was stupid
Thanks Jon... Being a "systems" type (been using computers since my original 8088), my mind is blown by the complexity and organization that make something that will alter the course of history. Thanks for sharing your visit to ASML with us! PS 'hardware leads software'
Fun how you call the High-NA machine "the beast". I remember being in the auditorium when Martin and Peter had their retiring event at the company and Martin would refer to the machine as "the monster". He talked about that every time he'd coordinate the release of a new machine type (Like was done with twinscan and EUV) there would always be some months or even years of issues where the new machine wouldn't function well in some way or another. But in the end it comes to show that if you allow such a thing to happen, and develop through it, you will create a marvel of craft engineering. Glad to see you enjoyed the tour, unfortunately I wasn't aware you were visiting or I'd gladly have tried to take you in some more places.
I'm glad you loved your stay! I live and work in Eindhoven region (I work at the train station). You can realy see the influence of ASML and it's growth on this city. ASML expects if they want to continue their growth the region needs to get 80.000 extra inhabitants in less than 15 years, wich is an insane growth rate for this region. The Eindhoven city council is planning to build 17 more appartment skyscrapers (7 are 100m+) and they will also build a Bus Rapid Transit line to the ASML campus in Veldhoven.
When I worked with them I was invited to Germany, the Netherlands, Wilton and San Diego, but my managers would not approve the travel so I never got to see the inside. I’m very jealous. I also completely agree with the company culture. They absolutely trust you to be the expert in what you do, and find a way to get it done. If you fail to deliver what you promise they will find someone else who doesn’t. If you exceed expectations you are rewarded with as much additional work and responsibility as you are willing to take on. I thank you for reminding me of this, I will be using it in discussions I will be having in a week or two.
That sounds familiar. The company I work for started to make a part for them. There was a certification process which I don`t know much about because I just operate a laserwelding robot and I m not a manager. The way they work is: we make the part and make sure it is according to their specs. We are 100% respsonsible for that. when we ship the part they store it in a warehouse and retrieve it when needed. They do not quality check themselves. all our responsiblity. If we ever mess up, its over for us.
@@asmo1313 I was one of the people engineering on the front line. For 2 years we were the limiting factor on production. I got us from 5 day turns to same day and doubled the volume we handled. Without people like you doing the real work it wouldn’t be possible. I only had to apologize twice, once was bad I made no excuses and made effort for no repeating the same mistakes. They were surprisingly good about it. We were in the middle of the process and I’ve seen them come down on lower level suppliers who weren’t performing to their word. I’m glad I wasn’t receiving that, and a few times they asked me to leave the conversation while they dealt with it. One lost their contract and was replaced.
I am Dutch, I can confirm that the culture here is quite "blunt" as he says it. The Flemish people use the term direct for it which means something like people speaking their mind and using less tact. I have been in touch with a few people who work(ed) for ASML, I know that they liked it that they were lower profile, I know that they are aware that they will loose their lead if they would take it easy, some company would catch up eventually.
@@paulbeaucuse2092 The southeast of the Netherlands, including Limburg (Maastricht is in that province) did not belong to the Netherlands unti 1815, it was a part of Belgium and even of France for a short time (around 2 decades) around the year 1800. Only in the 19th century Limburg joined the Netherlands. So it is not surprising that the culture is a bit different there. But also that part of the Netherlands is close to Germany and you can clearly notice that. The region is more dominant than the country for culture and language. I myself have German family, the Dutch people and German people near the border can understand each other perfectly well if they both speak the dialect of where they live. Anyway, it should also be pointed out that ASML has many foreign (non-Dutch) employees from all over Europe and also many from outside Europe. To make these EUV-lithography machines many expertises had to be combined and if you just look at the big components than 3 worldleading European companies (not just from the Netherlands) were required to make these machines. The same applies to copmanies like Intel, on that level it really is an international cooperation. For example, Intel also bought a spinoff from the university in Eindhoven, this spinoff was specialized in multithreading. Back then the computer science department of the electrical engineering faculty of the university in Eindhoven belonged to the top-3 in Europe.
I'm a Dutch electrical engineer. I graduated in 1999 from Delft University. Quite a number of my fellow students went working for ASML at that time. I guess that hasn't changed much. There are only three technical universities in the Netherlands: Delft, Enschede (in the east) and Eindhoven. I had to chuckle when you described Eindhoven as boring (or whatever your exact word was): It reminded me why I choose Delft, and not Eindhoven :)
That's so nice you got to visit ASML and with such a great tour! Recently had the luxury of briefly visiting ASML, imec and NXP as kind of a student trip and while my limited knowledge was a hurdle to ask meaningful questions it was absolutely fascinating to grasp that there is (still) so much high-end technology development cooking in the middle of Europe.
i saw you in the cleanroom didnt know it was you would have given you a tour of our workcenter the machine is really something else when you see it in real life.!
I was just about to sleep when a wild and excited, although I have to say very polite, deer rushed into my room and said: I went to ASML! I guess sleep can wait a little bit.
You're absolutely correct at 0:22, it hits different, seeing it for the first time in real life. In a way, it's humbling. Like you're looking at the technological equivalent of a historic landmark. Studying your vids made me calm down and appear well versed during my job interviews there. It's because of you that I got to see it in person myself. Thnx for that.
"Unlock shareholder value" 😂 Absolute chumps bean counters are. I feel like AMD made a mistake spinning off GloFo, though it was sort of justified given how much they were struggling financially at that point.
They were twice as much in debt as they got for GloFo. There was no other option. They even sold their head quarters and rented them back. At the worst months, just before Zen went into mass production, engineers had to vacuum their own offices and cubicles because there was no money for anything but the most basic of sanitary musts. So no, it wasn't "sort of justified". It was that, or no AMD. It wasn't until 2021 they became debt free, which was what gave them the breathing room to purchase Xilinx, which required them to take up a loan of $2.5B along with converting Xilinx stocks into AMD stocks at favorable rates. They have brought the debt down to $1.7B since.
@@andersjjensen I know it was a sell or die moment for AMD but if they didn't buy ATI for that ridiculous price and held out for a better settlement from Intel, they might not have needed to spin-off the fabs, though in the end it looks like it worked out for everyone. Do you think Intel will also have to go this route given the massive inertia that owning a fab adds/detracts to the company's momentum with its ridiculous CapEx, or do you think the CHIPS and Science Act saved the industry from fab spin-offs and shut-downs.
@@Elegant-Capybara buying ATI was a pretty good move at a pretty bad time. AMD needed to do *something* with the money it had from "winning the market" for a few years. The problem was that right after they bought ATI, the economy went to shit, Intel came back with the much more competitive Core architecture, and GloFo fell even further behind on its next gen process. That put AMD in an immediate bind.
I think the bit about Philips selling shares in ASML and TSMC is actually fair. They have to pitch to shareholders that they are the best place for RoI which would be reflected in share price. To continue to hold shares in another company (very liquid assets that are close to cash on hand) then they're effectively saying ASML and TSMC are better investments. E.g. would you buy a Ford if the guy at the dealership drove to and from work in a Chevrolet?
I worked for most high tech companies in the Netherlands including ASM Europe and Fico (molding chips) Shell, Natlab (Philips), European Space Agency, chili southern observatory. My regret is I never worked for ASML. I was almost hired, but the final interview with Tammer intimidated me and I blew it.
The Dutch appear to have an affinity with light & lens related technology: Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, Thomas Alpha Edison (who was of partial Dutch descent), Philips gloeilampen fabriek and asml lithography
Very well done. Having been working in Eindhoven at a nearby truck plant in 1989/90, ASML what came out of Philips was done well. Thank you very much for the inside information. Also being aware of fast expanding Zeiss in Oberkochen/DE and Trumpf in Ditzingen/DE. Possibly a big expertise of ASML is managing all the different vendors. There are so many, worldwide.
@@rvikrv But you believe that because is what you know right? which is what I know too. But is not what he said, maybe he was talking about the hyper machine but he wrote high NA.
How do they manage to position the wafer so precisely? (And so quickly?) Generating EUV light seems almost trivial compared to getting the accuracy of the steppers.
Infernal-meter's and prescanning wafers. That why the old lens machine is called twinscan. One wafer is scanned the other is exposed. It also reduce the shaking of machine somehow. You may want to watch the last Gear Corn video on ASML a couple of times : NA High something. The 4 refectros for the inferno-metre's near wafer are made by Anteryon i think ( which is Chinese own and near the airport (inside build BIC 1 )) . Building BiC 2 will be north of BIC1 across the road and will solely filled by Anteryon There will be BIC 3 till 6 North of the Road . Roughly north east of Fast Food Shop called Beatrix ( after the King mother ( stepped down Queen of The Netherlands ) The pumps are probably still from Edwards Vacuums (has very close service building ). Also there is a screen place before the Mask to stop atoms running the mask. Its very special material and has name i cannot remember at the moment This was developed with/by TuE ( Technical University Eindhoven ).
They finally had to admit that they too need High NA. I wonder if they had some insider information about Intel's High NA machines that made them go to ASML for a purchase. But now Intel has a slight head start. Panther lake will show us what High NA can do next year.
@@AgentSmith911 ofc TSMC would buy high NA machines, eventually. Its not like they go "hey i think we neee those". We dont really know how much TSMC or other company's can actually figure out how to get high NA working, etc do TSMC and others actually have people working at ASML, learning their machines. Its possible that TSMC has now aquired the high NA machines ahead of their planned schedule, also possible that they didnt and the the purchase is just on track. Its all guess work. Counting on Intel to be ahead with high NA is doubtful even tho they actually have the machines in their plants first. Intel was one of the first to buy EUV back in 2010 ish, and we all know they where very late at actually utilizing them properly. Its not as simple as who buys first wins, history has proven that.
@@MissMan666 The TSMC leadership has previously claimed that they would never need high NA machines and that they would make their own new methods of improving the node production, but now we know they do.
I'm Dutch and living in the Eindhoven aera. Unilever and Shell both were mixed Dutch/English companies. They only went to the UK because of differences in taxes. Let them go to Brexitaria and see how they will flourish in the long run there....
I got to see a prototype of the first generation EUV machine at the imec cleanroom in 2015. It had it's guts all splayed open as it was being worked on. Never before or after have in been so in awe of engineering as when I saw that - I cannot imagine how impressive the high-NA version must be.
After a project, I considered Eindhoven and its direct area as "Hell On Earth" as a place to live, but the machine building industry around semi-conductors is impressive, also looking at everything Philips brought on the market in the second half of the 20th century, quite impressive!
Woah 1 min in and I learned something new, ASML was originally Philips ? Well spun off of etc.. Crazy as I grew up with many Philips electronics and would always confuse them with Panasonic lol Wasn't Philips part of GE at one time or partners because I see Philips GE Health care equipment and have for decades. It makes sense to me though as ASML with roots of Philips means it wasn't an overnight magical boom. Thank you
I hope you enjoyed your time in the Netherlands. I love visiting there; everything is so organised, every square inch has been considered. It's impossible to not be impressed by the Dutch.
Just yesterday, I viewed a video about the history of Holland's 500 year battle, (complete with devastating floods), against the coastal seawalls, and of the engineering of the dykes, dams, canals and windmills to dramatically reclaim and increase their land area. Very ingenuitive and impressive!
You could visit companies that make components for that ASML machine. One of those companies is in San Diego. You could be there in your private jet this afternoon.
I just left my job at Prodrive which is a major ASML supplies in Son, on the other side of Eindhoven from Veldhoven. Got to go there twice, actually stayed in a hotel thats in the background of one of your pictures. Such a cool city, so many nice people and so much incredible engineering going on. Really would have liked to move there for a while but it wasn't meant to be. I agree with you, ASML isn't going anywhere. They have work for years left to do there.
As an ASML employee and lifelong resident of Veldhoven and Eindhoven I can confirm that this is all quite accurate. Especially the high number of new employees is of concern to much of the more experienced colleagues who see everything within ASML get slower. Regarding the story about ASML leaving: Peter Wennink said that the option of bringing future growth abroad was considered and this was somehow translated to "ASML wants to leave" in the news. Relocating would be totally unfeasable anyway. The technology and investment required in the supply chain for EUV is so massive that ASML is safely locked in. And veldhoven is basically just a neighborhood of Eindhoven nowadays.
Congratulations on the great channel! Love your videos! I work on analog ic design and there is something I could never understand about lithography: how do photoresists work when the feature sizes that are being made are in size of a few atoms? I would expect photoresists to be large organic molecules, and therefore, larger than the lithography feature size. Could you please share your knowledge on that matter?! Thank you so much!!
"Famously Blunt" w/ Amsterdam as a background scene. Deadpan delivery. Sir, you are good. BLUNT! You had me cracking up when the burnt out synapses had to start firing to catch that one. Well played. Content is fire.
To be clear, it’s not because of blunts that we are blunt. And, of course, we don’t consider it blunt to ask for (or provide) an unambiguous clarification. Wouldn’t want (you) to assume the wrong thing now, do we? ;-)
For your conflict of interest for the sponsoring bit: I don't think anyone would care if they would have invited you - this is ASML, the ONLY uEUV company.
01:03 translation: *Philips and ASM International join forces* _"Philips (Scientific and Industrial Equipment) and Advanced Semiconductor Materials International N.V (ASM International) in Bilthoven expressed their intention for a joint venture to develop, produce and market advanced lithography machines for the semiconductor industry. The new venture will be established in Eindhoven and initially offer work for circa 50 employees, the majority of whom are already active in this field within Philips. It is expected that this number shall grow._ _The first product to hit the market is the so called wafer stepper. This advanced machine, known as the PAS-2000, is currently in production and use by Philips. The subsidiary companies of ASM International - located in the United States, Japan, Europe and Hongkong - shall serve as sales- and service centers._ _The new venture shall produce the wafer stepper in numbers for the global market. The development of new generation wafer steppers, currently under development at Philips, shall be transferred to the joint venture. There is also the intention to take over the development of other lithography machines."_
Am currently trying to get a job at ASML after finishing my Physics degree. Hearing they've been lowering their standards despite my continued rejections feels bad lol 🙃🙃
I used to know a guy who worked for an American chip equipment maker, this was back before anyone got UV chipmaking to work. He said the main obstacle was getting the mirrors to last long enough because the UV light was quickly destroying them. Was his information correct and did they fix this?
You can make really small features with ebeam, but the productivity is terrible. It is the difference between old Monks writing books by hand versus a modern printing press.
WAIT.... Why did you say at the end of the video 15:15 that ASML is aware that nigh NA EUV doesn't work right now? If that is the machine intel got some months ago then I thought it was good to go, just expensive and with the caveat that is not a mature technology that might need some months of calibration and troubleshooting. But not working? What am I missing here?
It is kind of sad what has happened to Phillips, as I worked with the radio products division, and later as a sales engineer for their scientific and industrial, test and measurement division, in the early 1990s. They were significant players in both markets, and now they are no more. Sometimes I think company directors get too much involved in worrying about share prices, rather than producing excellent products that are second to none, which the predicament that Boeing is in currently, represents that situation exactly. As an engineer myself, I do see this is the problem when you have Directors that do not have an engineering background, but are managing Technology companies, and so one day Philips Will no longer exist, as will Boeing.
What to do when your CTO is at the core of the culture and is about to retire? Well, don't bring in a guy whose focus is sales. Immelt replaced Welch around 2000. It didn't go very well. They lost their engineering focus and fell flat on their face.
OMG!!!! HAHAHAAAA!!! the BEST PART of this video (and the ENTIRE Internet) is @ 8:38 - reading what those IDIOTS thought was INTELLIGENT.... BUAHAHA!!! Funniest dang thing of 2024!! "Vertically Integrate like SpaceX" HAHAHAAAAA!!!! Thank you for that! - the rest of the video is very informative... I would have LOVED to have gone on that trip too.... Smart man you are. ... stay safe my fren.
Amazing experience. Asml explored then gave up on FEL light source a number of years back. Did they indicate why hyper na and not a FEL light source is their future when in theory FEL light fundamental solves the light power issue and could help fabs provide better node processes for decades?
I love love your videos. Thank you! Didn't Russia recently announce that they had made an EUV lithography machine? I just laughed when I heard that, but I was wondering if there was any more to the story.
hgahgaghag those tweets. The over engineered guy has a #d printer startup that hasn't shipped anything with a broken site and a major in economics. The kind of person that unlocks your shareholder value
If I knew you were here at ASML I would have liked to meet you in person. Great video, and very accurate. Veldhoven is maybe not so small as you might have made people to think, it has about 50k people.
The same could be said of CEOs some of which go out on M&A buying sprees and vastly overpay to acquire other companies. Followed either by massive write-downs or even bankruptcy.
if the next thing are Xrays, then it will be based on diffraction, not reflection imho. We're already getting close to that since High NA is around 13.5 nm, with Xrays starting at 10 nm. Perhaps the best way to go from now would be with be with beta radiation since a beam can be manipulated with magnetic lenses.
Electrons repel each other, which is a problem with electron beam lithography. Maybe less of a problem if it is not a beam but a whole image at once, fewer electrons in one place.
@@MalinCruceru We can only use mirrors and not lenses because EUV is already too high frequency and would be filtered out by lenses. Unless you mean diffraction by other means and not lenses.
a billion company should be able to find a new property with opportunities to grow. They must have saved a lot of money so time to move ahead and buy a new property or out buy other properties next to the current one and keep growing. That can not really be such big deal. Others did it before and might take 2 or 3 years but as a tax payer they should get support by the locals to find the right property. Not worth a headline if a company would be unable to prepare further growth.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
LoL, can you imagine asml doing youtube sponsorships?
"Next time you're setting up a fab, consider asml" as though they were a meal delivery or vpn service. Hahaha.
I've gotten Jane Street ads before... Not to buy their product, but to try to recruit me. As mentioned in the video, finding and retaining good engineers is tough, and definitely worth some marketing budget.
@@VaebnKenh oh, that makes some sense, thanks!
I just ordered $100 m ultraviolet lithography laser from asml bc of this guy. they'd shipping it next month to my fab 😌
Free shipping if you use code Asianometry at checkout!
Wonder if they do prime next day delivery.
Misread that as “what’s next for asmr” and I was prepared for some hard hitting analysis of an entirely different kind of
*whispers* “but first about the Asianometry newsletterrrrr”
Wouldn't it be soft hitting analysis? 😂
Ditto. After all, don’t we all listen to this channel for the smooth sounds?
You guys made me look that up…. 😃
(In a whisper) Get your mind out of the gutter... 🙃
I'm glad you could visit us. Thanks for all your work explaining the industry! 💙🙂
I wonder how many companies have murdered their potential when trying to "unlock shareholder value" :/
A story as old as time, or at least as old as the stock market.
Yep, greedy shareholders derail the company's long term stability entirely for short term windfalls, only to jump as it goes off the cliff to another company and start the process all over again. Modern "venture capital" firms are basically gangs of greedy shareholders who have industrialized such destruction.
@@RationalistRebel Well put!
'unlocking' must not be bad. It can enable the growth of the new company. E.g. Toyota and Daimler owned a part of Tesla. But, keeping a part (maybe max 25%) of the spin off, could make sense.
Unlocking value…. Was the code words for merger, followed by lay-offs… who needs the acquired company’s finance department or sales organizations? They are the first to go…
If you now have two research organizations… combining them, and selling off the excess property is bean counter heaven!
Down size… right size…
Employees with this experience learn how to optimize taking the package… severance pay, re-education expenses, health insurance…
The 80s was a wild time…. 😃
Philips is such a terribly run and managed company. They have squandered so much that they had in tech and medical.
If you're going to listen to investment managers on how to run a company, you deserve to fail.
like GE
yep, what a wasted opportunity😢
I think a thing to understand here is that unless it was spun out, you would not have had the right leadership or hiring opportunities to create ASML. If you didn't have a CEO that gave 100% priority to lithography would it had happened? If you could not have hired all new engineers with 100% focus on lithography could it have happened? What about personal rivalries and female middle/project managers promoted to the level of incompetence? Companies like Philips are like giant oiltanker ships or aircraft carriers... they take days just to make a small turn. You needed a cigarette boat to create ASML because nothing like it had been done before. So, this really did "unlock shareholder value". It let Philips focus on things they do well while also creating a new company to do something new that it could do well (which many Philips investors likely invested in right after the spin out - especially sophisticated investors running tech/growth investment funds). The politics in companies as large as Philips can kill any idea or emerging tech no matter how good. I'm glad ASML spun out and got away from the politics.
@@viktoreisfeld9470 almost as if their original point of being "terribly ran" is exactly what your "politics and slow moving" means.. not to mention that their squanderings aren't just the spinning out, which is fine, but the selling off of their stocks in the spinoffs, which was stupid
Thanks Jon... Being a "systems" type (been using computers since my original 8088), my mind is blown by the complexity and organization that make something that will alter the course of history. Thanks for sharing your visit to ASML with us! PS 'hardware leads software'
Fun how you call the High-NA machine "the beast". I remember being in the auditorium when Martin and Peter had their retiring event at the company and Martin would refer to the machine as "the monster". He talked about that every time he'd coordinate the release of a new machine type (Like was done with twinscan and EUV) there would always be some months or even years of issues where the new machine wouldn't function well in some way or another. But in the end it comes to show that if you allow such a thing to happen, and develop through it, you will create a marvel of craft engineering.
Glad to see you enjoyed the tour, unfortunately I wasn't aware you were visiting or I'd gladly have tried to take you in some more places.
I'm glad you loved your stay! I live and work in Eindhoven region (I work at the train station). You can realy see the influence of ASML and it's growth on this city. ASML expects if they want to continue their growth the region needs to get 80.000 extra inhabitants in less than 15 years, wich is an insane growth rate for this region. The Eindhoven city council is planning to build 17 more appartment skyscrapers (7 are 100m+) and they will also build a Bus Rapid Transit line to the ASML campus in Veldhoven.
I loved Eindhoven. I was sitting in the local Starbucks and writing throughout my time there and just people-watching.
Super cool that you have gotten an opportunity to visit it, love your videos.
When I worked with them I was invited to Germany, the Netherlands, Wilton and San Diego, but my managers would not approve the travel so I never got to see the inside. I’m very jealous.
I also completely agree with the company culture. They absolutely trust you to be the expert in what you do, and find a way to get it done. If you fail to deliver what you promise they will find someone else who doesn’t. If you exceed expectations you are rewarded with as much additional work and responsibility as you are willing to take on.
I thank you for reminding me of this, I will be using it in discussions I will be having in a week or two.
That sounds familiar. The company I work for started to make a part for them. There was a certification process which I don`t know much about because I just operate a laserwelding robot and I m not a manager. The way they work is: we make the part and make sure it is according to their specs. We are 100% respsonsible for that. when we ship the part they store it in a warehouse and retrieve it when needed. They do not quality check themselves. all our responsiblity. If we ever mess up, its over for us.
@@asmo1313 and they pay a good premium for that
@@asmo1313 I was one of the people engineering on the front line. For 2 years we were the limiting factor on production. I got us from 5 day turns to same day and doubled the volume we handled. Without people like you doing the real work it wouldn’t be possible. I only had to apologize twice, once was bad I made no excuses and made effort for no repeating the same mistakes. They were surprisingly good about it. We were in the middle of the process and I’ve seen them come down on lower level suppliers who weren’t performing to their word. I’m glad I wasn’t receiving that, and a few times they asked me to leave the conversation while they dealt with it. One lost their contract and was replaced.
I am Dutch, I can confirm that the culture here is quite "blunt" as he says it. The Flemish people use the term direct for it which means something like people speaking their mind and using less tact. I have been in touch with a few people who work(ed) for ASML, I know that they liked it that they were lower profile, I know that they are aware that they will loose their lead if they would take it easy, some company would catch up eventually.
It seems to work rather well .. results orientation.
Depends where you are, I remember Maastricht as mostly very "diplomatic", I remember Utrecht was for example very direct and blunt.
@@paulbeaucuse2092 The southeast of the Netherlands, including Limburg (Maastricht is in that province) did not belong to the Netherlands unti 1815, it was a part of Belgium and even of France for a short time (around 2 decades) around the year 1800. Only in the 19th century Limburg joined the Netherlands. So it is not surprising that the culture is a bit different there. But also that part of the Netherlands is close to Germany and you can clearly notice that. The region is more dominant than the country for culture and language. I myself have German family, the Dutch people and German people near the border can understand each other perfectly well if they both speak the dialect of where they live.
Anyway, it should also be pointed out that ASML has many foreign (non-Dutch) employees from all over Europe and also many from outside Europe. To make these EUV-lithography machines many expertises had to be combined and if you just look at the big components than 3 worldleading European companies (not just from the Netherlands) were required to make these machines. The same applies to copmanies like Intel, on that level it really is an international cooperation. For example, Intel also bought a spinoff from the university in Eindhoven, this spinoff was specialized in multithreading. Back then the computer science department of the electrical engineering faculty of the university in Eindhoven belonged to the top-3 in Europe.
I'm a Dutch electrical engineer. I graduated in 1999 from Delft University. Quite a number of my fellow students went working for ASML at that time. I guess that hasn't changed much. There are only three technical universities in the Netherlands: Delft, Enschede (in the east) and Eindhoven. I had to chuckle when you described Eindhoven as boring (or whatever your exact word was): It reminded me why I choose Delft, and not Eindhoven :)
Impressive tour and overview, Jon! Thanks! 😎✌️
I work at asml, would have loved to meet you there!
I worked in Vaccine manufacturing and is habituated with cleanroom. Surprisingly, the ASML cleanrooms loosk surprisingly 'familiar' to me.
Photo lithography clean rooms are cleaner then biofactory. About 2 levels cleaner. You must know if you had GMP training done
@@ironman8257My sterile environment is more sterile than your sterile environment 🤓
@@ReddoFreddo Yes? Grade C for biofarm is high, but grade C for semiconductor manufacturing is low.
It is very similar. Coming from a researcher who visited a clean room once in Leiden.
Maybe the history of Philips and all the spinoffs they did (ASML, NXP and such) as a future subject?
Also NXP market cap is bigger then Philips.....
@@sparqqling The kids are getting older and the father growing smaller... Just like life!
ruclips.net/video/WE58YisgFeQ/видео.html
That's so nice you got to visit ASML and with such a great tour!
Recently had the luxury of briefly visiting ASML, imec and NXP as kind of a student trip and while my limited knowledge was a hurdle to ask meaningful questions it was absolutely fascinating to grasp that there is (still) so much high-end technology development cooking in the middle of Europe.
i saw you in the cleanroom didnt know it was you would have given you a tour of our workcenter the machine is really something else when you see it in real life.!
I was just about to sleep when a wild and excited, although I have to say very polite, deer rushed into my room and said: I went to ASML! I guess sleep can wait a little bit.
Love that pause after "unlock shareholder value". It really does speak for itself.
After watching you for awhile it's so much fun too see you visited the place I live!
You're absolutely correct at 0:22, it hits different, seeing it for the first time in real life. In a way, it's humbling. Like you're looking at the technological equivalent of a historic landmark.
Studying your vids made me calm down and appear well versed during my job interviews there. It's because of you that I got to see it in person myself. Thnx for that.
"Unlock shareholder value" 😂 Absolute chumps bean counters are. I feel like AMD made a mistake spinning off GloFo, though it was sort of justified given how much they were struggling financially at that point.
They were twice as much in debt as they got for GloFo. There was no other option. They even sold their head quarters and rented them back. At the worst months, just before Zen went into mass production, engineers had to vacuum their own offices and cubicles because there was no money for anything but the most basic of sanitary musts.
So no, it wasn't "sort of justified". It was that, or no AMD. It wasn't until 2021 they became debt free, which was what gave them the breathing room to purchase Xilinx, which required them to take up a loan of $2.5B along with converting Xilinx stocks into AMD stocks at favorable rates. They have brought the debt down to $1.7B since.
Shareholders could've bought ASML at IPO 14 years later if they wanted to.
Typical Wall Street behavior. Short term pennies over long term dollars.
@@andersjjensen I know it was a sell or die moment for AMD but if they didn't buy ATI for that ridiculous price and held out for a better settlement from Intel, they might not have needed to spin-off the fabs, though in the end it looks like it worked out for everyone.
Do you think Intel will also have to go this route given the massive inertia that owning a fab adds/detracts to the company's momentum with its ridiculous CapEx, or do you think the CHIPS and Science Act saved the industry from fab spin-offs and shut-downs.
@@Elegant-Capybara buying ATI was a pretty good move at a pretty bad time. AMD needed to do *something* with the money it had from "winning the market" for a few years. The problem was that right after they bought ATI, the economy went to shit, Intel came back with the much more competitive Core architecture, and GloFo fell even further behind on its next gen process. That put AMD in an immediate bind.
Unlocking investor value went so well for Boeing.
I think the bit about Philips selling shares in ASML and TSMC is actually fair.
They have to pitch to shareholders that they are the best place for RoI which would be reflected in share price.
To continue to hold shares in another company (very liquid assets that are close to cash on hand) then they're effectively saying ASML and TSMC are better investments.
E.g. would you buy a Ford if the guy at the dealership drove to and from work in a Chevrolet?
I worked for most high tech companies in the Netherlands including ASM Europe and Fico (molding chips) Shell, Natlab (Philips), European Space Agency, chili southern observatory. My regret is I never worked for ASML. I was almost hired, but the final interview with Tammer intimidated me and I blew it.
Thank you so very much for this video ❤ Learned great deal about EUV & ASML!! 🎉
Thank you for making this excellent material available.
Do not look into the laser with your remaining good eye
The Dutch appear to have an affinity with light & lens related technology: Antonie van Leeuwenhoek, Thomas Alpha Edison (who was of partial Dutch descent), Philips gloeilampen fabriek and asml lithography
Very well done. Having been working in Eindhoven at a nearby truck plant in 1989/90, ASML what came out of Philips was done well.
Thank you very much for the inside information. Also being aware of fast expanding Zeiss in Oberkochen/DE and Trumpf in Ditzingen/DE. Possibly a big expertise of ASML is managing all the different vendors. There are so many, worldwide.
The Veldhoven is doing good and ASML just implement well.
Ah, new day, new Asianometry video. Love these contents. Very informative.
Did not see you in the HighNA lab when I was working there, missed out on that oppertunity lol
He was the one with the antlers.
Hey one question, the high NA EUV is working right? He say at the end of the video that is not working atm which greatly confused me.
@@Drumaier I believe he means it's not suitable yet for high-volume production.
@@rvikrv But you believe that because is what you know right? which is what I know too. But is not what he said, maybe he was talking about the hyper machine but he wrote high NA.
@@Drumaier there are several news items about High NA working :)
How do they manage to position the wafer so precisely? (And so quickly?)
Generating EUV light seems almost trivial compared to getting the accuracy of the steppers.
Infernal-meter's and prescanning wafers. That why the old lens machine is called twinscan. One wafer is scanned the other is exposed. It also reduce the shaking of machine somehow.
You may want to watch the last Gear Corn video on ASML a couple of times : NA High something.
The 4 refectros for the inferno-metre's near wafer are made by Anteryon i think ( which is Chinese own and near the airport (inside build BIC 1 )) .
Building BiC 2 will be north of BIC1 across the road and will solely filled by Anteryon
There will be BIC 3 till 6 North of the Road . Roughly north east of Fast Food Shop called Beatrix ( after the King mother ( stepped down Queen of The Netherlands )
The pumps are probably still from Edwards Vacuums (has very close service building ).
Also there is a screen place before the Mask to stop atoms running the mask. Its very special material and has name i cannot remember at the moment
This was developed with/by TuE ( Technical University Eindhoven ).
It's so funny/interesting that as of the uploading of this video TSMC has confirmed they're buying the High NA EUV machines lol.
They finally had to admit that they too need High NA. I wonder if they had some insider information about Intel's High NA machines that made them go to ASML for a purchase. But now Intel has a slight head start. Panther lake will show us what High NA can do next year.
If they don't buy it then Intel will.
@@AgentSmith911 ofc TSMC would buy high NA machines, eventually. Its not like they go "hey i think we neee those". We dont really know how much TSMC or other company's can actually figure out how to get high NA working, etc do TSMC and others actually have people working at ASML, learning their machines. Its possible that TSMC has now aquired the high NA machines ahead of their planned schedule, also possible that they didnt and the the purchase is just on track. Its all guess work. Counting on Intel to be ahead with high NA is doubtful even tho they actually have the machines in their plants first. Intel was one of the first to buy EUV back in 2010 ish, and we all know they where very late at actually utilizing them properly. Its not as simple as who buys first wins, history has proven that.
@@MissMan666 The TSMC leadership has previously claimed that they would never need high NA machines and that they would make their own new methods of improving the node production, but now we know they do.
@@AgentSmith911 when was that? The word, as far as I know, was always that they were hesitant and balancing the cost benefits.
This is amazing. Thank you for the work you do on your videos. ♥
I'm Dutch and living in the Eindhoven aera. Unilever and Shell both were mixed Dutch/English companies. They only went to the UK because of differences in taxes. Let them go to Brexitaria and see how they will flourish in the long run there....
I got to see a prototype of the first generation EUV machine at the imec cleanroom in 2015. It had it's guts all splayed open as it was being worked on. Never before or after have in been so in awe of engineering as when I saw that - I cannot imagine how impressive the high-NA version must be.
After a project, I considered Eindhoven and its direct area as "Hell On Earth" as a place to live, but the machine building industry around semi-conductors is impressive, also looking at everything Philips brought on the market in the second half of the 20th century, quite impressive!
Woah 1 min in and I learned something new, ASML was originally Philips ? Well spun off of etc..
Crazy as I grew up with many Philips electronics and would always confuse them with Panasonic lol
Wasn't Philips part of GE at one time or partners because I see Philips GE Health care equipment and have for decades.
It makes sense to me though as ASML with roots of Philips means it wasn't an overnight magical boom.
Thank you
I hope you enjoyed your time in the Netherlands. I love visiting there; everything is so organised, every square inch has been considered. It's impossible to not be impressed by the Dutch.
Just yesterday, I viewed a video about the history of Holland's 500 year battle, (complete with devastating floods), against the coastal seawalls, and of the engineering of the dykes, dams, canals and windmills to dramatically reclaim and increase their land area. Very ingenuitive and impressive!
It's a company, not a cult. Very different from the Silicon Valley cults of personality, like Jobs, Musk, Zuck, etc.
Oh I wouldn't be so quick to judge. The Europeans have their quarks too.
Apple is most definitely a 'company', like them or not.
European corporations have a different work ethos from American ones. I would rather work in a German or French corporation than in an American one.
@@AnotherAmerican91Well yeah, everything technically has quarks, or at least if they have protons and neutrons
companies make money > money creates greed > greed ruins everything.
WITH politics in the mix? wishful thinking og
I enjoyed this so much, I wish it was longer.
You could visit companies that make components for that ASML machine. One of those companies is in San Diego. You could be there in your private jet this afternoon.
It seems to me that ASML is increasingly getting tied to the US defense industry.
I just left my job at Prodrive which is a major ASML supplies in Son, on the other side of Eindhoven from Veldhoven. Got to go there twice, actually stayed in a hotel thats in the background of one of your pictures. Such a cool city, so many nice people and so much incredible engineering going on. Really would have liked to move there for a while but it wasn't meant to be.
I agree with you, ASML isn't going anywhere. They have work for years left to do there.
As an ASML employee and lifelong resident of Veldhoven and Eindhoven I can confirm that this is all quite accurate. Especially the high number of new employees is of concern to much of the more experienced colleagues who see everything within ASML get slower.
Regarding the story about ASML leaving: Peter Wennink said that the option of bringing future growth abroad was considered and this was somehow translated to "ASML wants to leave" in the news.
Relocating would be totally unfeasable anyway. The technology and investment required in the supply chain for EUV is so massive that ASML is safely locked in.
And veldhoven is basically just a neighborhood of Eindhoven nowadays.
How does the supply chain differ from other fab tools?
Congratulations on the great channel! Love your videos! I work on analog ic design and there is something I could never understand about lithography: how do photoresists work when the feature sizes that are being made are in size of a few atoms? I would expect photoresists to be large organic molecules, and therefore, larger than the lithography feature size.
Could you please share your knowledge on that matter?! Thank you so much!!
"Famously Blunt" w/ Amsterdam as a background scene. Deadpan delivery. Sir, you are good. BLUNT! You had me cracking up when the burnt out synapses had to start firing to catch that one. Well played. Content is fire.
I'm not 100% he thought of that perspective himself.
Yeah that didn't seem to be on purpose, but it's a banger
To be clear, it’s not because of blunts that we are blunt. And, of course, we don’t consider it blunt to ask for (or provide) an unambiguous clarification. Wouldn’t want (you) to assume the wrong thing now, do we? ;-)
What is the joke?
@@GabrielCazorlaPersson1 From Wikipedia: "A blunt is a cigar that has been hollowed out and filled with cannabis."
I’m glad you got this opportunity. I know how loved your videos are amongst my colleagues. Did you visit during the IMEC lab opening event?
Have you done a video on RISC-V
Great video thank you. I bought 'Focus' at your recommendation and look forward to reading it (amongst my rather large inbox of books 🙂).
For your conflict of interest for the sponsoring bit: I don't think anyone would care if they would have invited you - this is ASML, the ONLY uEUV company.
Hey you were in my old city !!! nice to see it in your video
Good thing ASML's shareholders are companies like TSMC and Intel. Unlocking shareholder means innovation.
01:03 translation:
*Philips and ASM International join forces*
_"Philips (Scientific and Industrial Equipment) and Advanced Semiconductor Materials International N.V (ASM International) in Bilthoven expressed their intention for a joint venture to develop, produce and market advanced lithography machines for the semiconductor industry. The new venture will be established in Eindhoven and initially offer work for circa 50 employees, the majority of whom are already active in this field within Philips. It is expected that this number shall grow._
_The first product to hit the market is the so called wafer stepper. This advanced machine, known as the PAS-2000, is currently in production and use by Philips. The subsidiary companies of ASM International - located in the United States, Japan, Europe and Hongkong - shall serve as sales- and service centers._
_The new venture shall produce the wafer stepper in numbers for the global market. The development of new generation wafer steppers, currently under development at Philips, shall be transferred to the joint venture. There is also the intention to take over the development of other lithography machines."_
So far i know there is still a service running to refurbish the Pass-5000 series by ASML. My source is a video on ASml youtube channel.
Dekujeme. Danke! Thanks.
It's very appreciated for being there.
ASML, not a hidden champion anymore.
Thanks
Am currently trying to get a job at ASML after finishing my Physics degree. Hearing they've been lowering their standards despite my continued rejections feels bad lol 🙃🙃
Carl Zeiss next?
I used to know a guy who worked for an American chip equipment maker, this was back before anyone got UV chipmaking to work. He said the main obstacle was getting the mirrors to last long enough because the UV light was quickly destroying them. Was his information correct and did they fix this?
Thank you for this exceptional glimpse into the problems being solved to build future chips.
Waiting to buy an Apple M4 silicon Notebook. Right now the M1 is doing well. Good to know how it's made.
Loving all your videos man. You talk about engineering and science advances with a lot of passion and well explained 😅😊
"The waferstage is the same as the old maschine" - you sure? The Mirrorblock looks different than the current NXE maschines
You can make really small features with ebeam, but the productivity is terrible. It is the difference between old Monks writing books by hand versus a modern printing press.
Slow paced is a good thing. Enjoy it while you can.😊
Got a couple friends of mine that live in Eindhoven. Hope to visit next year ^.^
Why do they need a sales team when they have 3-4 total customers?
WAIT.... Why did you say at the end of the video 15:15 that ASML is aware that nigh NA EUV doesn't work right now? If that is the machine intel got some months ago then I thought it was good to go, just expensive and with the caveat that is not a mature technology that might need some months of calibration and troubleshooting. But not working? What am I missing here?
It is kind of sad what has happened to Phillips, as I worked with the radio products division, and later as a sales engineer for their scientific and industrial, test and measurement division, in the early 1990s. They were significant players in both markets, and now they are no more. Sometimes I think company directors get too much involved in worrying about share prices, rather than producing excellent products that are second to none, which the predicament that Boeing is in currently, represents that situation exactly. As an engineer myself, I do see this is the problem when you have Directors that do not have an engineering background, but are managing Technology companies, and so one day Philips Will no longer exist, as will Boeing.
Companies go down when the products and services they provide are no longer needed.
What to do when your CTO is at the core of the culture and is about to retire? Well, don't bring in a guy whose focus is sales. Immelt replaced Welch around 2000. It didn't go very well. They lost their engineering focus and fell flat on their face.
Yet most people seem to blame Welch for the decline of the company.
Thanks for this. This was very very informative
PHILIPS BEEN fumbling the bag💀
OMG!!!! HAHAHAAAA!!! the BEST PART of this video (and the ENTIRE Internet) is @ 8:38 - reading what those IDIOTS thought was INTELLIGENT.... BUAHAHA!!! Funniest dang thing of 2024!! "Vertically Integrate like SpaceX" HAHAHAAAAA!!!!
Thank you for that!
- the rest of the video is very informative... I would have LOVED to have gone on that trip too.... Smart man you are. ... stay safe my fren.
Saying these machines are over-engineered is like saying the universe is over-engineered.
Hey! My buddy works there
Amazing experience. Asml explored then gave up on FEL light source a number of years back. Did they indicate why hyper na and not a FEL light source is their future when in theory FEL light fundamental solves the light power issue and could help fabs provide better node processes for decades?
Next up, Jon visits Canon/Nikon/SMEE, would be nice to see
Where are the components CNC’d?
Another great video, Jon thank you very much.
seeing hardware in these videos that I personally designed never gets old! Reticle Handler gang in Stage's shadow as per usual lol
Absolute rocket science.
I love love your videos. Thank you! Didn't Russia recently announce that they had made an EUV lithography machine? I just laughed when I heard that, but I was wondering if there was any more to the story.
How do you even train the new batch of people that join the company to assemble and operate such a machine? Pinnacle of our advancement as a species.
is there any footage you can share not these static ones
Nope
A great video, thank you for uploading.
Phillips could been a powerhouse
hgahgaghag those tweets. The over engineered guy has a #d printer startup that hasn't shipped anything with a broken site and a major in economics. The kind of person that unlocks your shareholder value
I can’t speak to other FAANGS, but having just started at AWS I can say that much effort is being put toward maintaining Amazon’s “peculiar” culture.
Are you at Nara, Deer? :p
Deer cookies are over there.
He actually make a video about how the profile picture came to be. Yes, it's a Nara deer that he took a photo of during his trip there.
If I knew you were here at ASML I would have liked to meet you in person.
Great video, and very accurate. Veldhoven is maybe not so small as you might have made people to think, it has about 50k people.
Well done, awesome video. Thank you!😊✌️
Don't you just hate it when vulture "investors" rant and rave about "shareholder value" and then immediately sell if you follow their suggestions?
I can see ASML sponsoring this video!
Maybe not sponsoring but certainly encouraged
Share holders ruin so many things. Sometimes they help. Most times they don't.
The same could be said of CEOs some of which go out on M&A buying sprees and vastly overpay to acquire other companies. Followed either by massive write-downs or even bankruptcy.
Babe, wake up... Asianometry finally went to the factory where they make all the ASMR. Babe...?
if the next thing are Xrays, then it will be based on diffraction, not reflection imho. We're already getting close to that since High NA is around 13.5 nm, with Xrays starting at 10 nm. Perhaps the best way to go from now would be with be with beta radiation since a beam can be manipulated with magnetic lenses.
Electrons repel each other, which is a problem with electron beam lithography. Maybe less of a problem if it is not a beam but a whole image at once, fewer electrons in one place.
Diffraction is already infeasible because it filters out high frequencies.
@@FrigoCoder what do you mean by that?
@@MalinCruceru We can only use mirrors and not lenses because EUV is already too high frequency and would be filtered out by lenses. Unless you mean diffraction by other means and not lenses.
@@FrigoCoder yes. diffraction is a different phenomena than reflection.
Alright I gotta admit that’s kind of awesome to get a shout out at 8:37 thanks @asianometry
a billion company should be able to find a new property with opportunities to grow. They must have saved a lot of money so time to move ahead and buy a new property or out buy other properties next to the current one and keep growing.
That can not really be such big deal. Others did it before and might take 2 or 3 years but as a tax payer they should get support by the locals to find the right property.
Not worth a headline if a company would be unable to prepare further growth.