Single Dwelling Unit definition a single-family (home, house, or dwelling) means that the building is a structure maintained and used as a single dwelling unit. Jun 26 2019 A single family home not a single person dwelling.
Thanks Sparky for that explanation. Another great video which I really appreciate . I am currently looking into this for a customer who needs a board change and I am aware that the extra expense may mean I lose the job if I conclude he does and someone else quotes without the added cost of the SPD. I think that is going to be one of those eternal dilemmas until they make them compulsory . Can I also say that I was delighted to see your videos with Gaz at Treshsm . Thanks again for taking the time to do these videos . As I am relatively new to all of this , all your collective advice is so helpful. Cheers . Adrian .
My take is if there is no harm with installing one and it's cheap compared to everything else, no reason not to include it at least one at the main incoming. This will give comfort to the tenants. Any power surge from lightning or whatever sources just once in a lifetime is not worth the risk to take for any tenant from saving the extra cost of a few dollars. Cost reduction can best be done on other less items
Hi Phillip, the type of SPD's being discussed here in the 18th edition are specifically type 2 SPD's and these are not lightning rated. You would need a type 1 device for this. It's important to ensure that the difference between the types of device are fully understood.
Thanks for another great video, I personally think it would be easier to just install the device. Therefore no comebacks. A video on selection & installation would be great. Most of the electricians, I have talked to are still in the dark about SPD’s, it seems to have been pushed in, without any thought to the installer. A practical training course would be a good idea.
It's important to do the risk assessment but......as someone that has done quite a few I can advise that unless the property is fed underground and is in a fairly built up sub-urban or highly built up urban area then chances are you will need the SPD.
They just seem like a way to sell a MOV at a massivly inflated price but that might just be the yorkshire in me. I guess it could be useful if you have a large number of PSUs regularly dying but i would imagine most people spend less than the cost of an spd on anual psu replacement due to lack of consumer unit spd protection.
We haven't used these devices domestically before because a, they weren't freely available b, the risk is extremely low. You're probably more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightning. I've seen a tear down of these things and they are full of tightly packed cheap electronics. I'm expecting a lot of fires safely contained in 17th edition consumer units.
SPD's have been widely available since the 90's in the UK. The 18th edition is specifically not aimed at lightning rated devices, it talks about transients "of non atmospheric origin" these are type 2 devices, typically in the UK these will be MOV based, if you have had poor experience in the past that is regrettable, maybe you could try www.dehn.co.uk we invented the worlds first SPD in the 50's and they are certainly not full of "tightly packed cheap electronics". SPD's do not pose a fire risk if you select a decent device and install it correctly.
Would appreciate some discussion of overhead supply scenarios with regard to which, IET Wiring Matters issue 71 says "any structure fed via an overhead supply line shall also require an SPD". In this scenario it appears the required equipment is larger and much more expensive, (which may well affect any risk/cost/benefit analysis by the user in a single dwelling unit situation). Although the IET article appears to suggest in this scenario SPDs are compulsory/"required" anyway. That said, they do not back this assertion up with any reference to the regs.
Correct Robin, structures fed via overhead lines must have a type 1 SPD, these are lightning arrest devices. They do tend to be slightly bulkier and slightly more expensive but they have to able to cope with up to 50kA of lightning energy so they are very robust and often manufactured in a slightly different way using different components.
The regulation does not read as if risk assesment is not a requirement with single domestic dwellings to me. It reads that if the cost and economic aspect points to fitting one then you should either risk assess obviously to see the need or fit one if choosing not to risk assess.
Regarding the code. There are enough experience in others codes about legal claims... after a legal customer claim... it is not difficult for a solicitor show that the spd risk assessment didn't comply with the over voltage conditions established in the code . Then the electrician's public liability insurance company will face the losses cost. After that, we will have premiums in electricians' public liability insurance as happened in other countries with equivalent codes...
You can get a device suitable for a domestic application from a reputable OEM for less than £50. Is it worth messing about with risk assessments? Is it worth the liability you expose yourself to by not fitting. As an aside it’s hard to see how these devices provide much more than a false sense of security. If your incoming supply is suddenly at 50kV a domestic consumer unit doesn’t provide anywhere near the creepage/clearance distance required. You also got the issue of transients on other services such as phone lines. If your phone line is subject to a surge the over voltage will most likely make its way onto the socket ring powering it admittedly for a brief period but most likely long enough to destroy most devices connected to it.
The fact the Lpah, Lpch, Lpac and Lpcl are pretty much unknown to us - such that we are not able to do the CRL - means that basically they just want us to fit them. That's my take on it.
The reg says "The total length (Lpal+Lpcl+Lpah+Lpch) is limited to 1km. ........If the distribution network lengths are totally or partially unknown then Lpal shall be taken as equal to the remaining distance to reach a total length of 1km". So just put 1km in. Simples!
@@hectorselectrics Thanks Hector's. I can see that I need to go back to the drawing board on that. It's the paragraph about the "remaining distance" that's confusing me. I'll go with Lp as 1km for now ta.
It's totally counter-intuitive that the more the Calculated Risk level over 1000 - the less the need for and SPD. We're being asked to CALCULATE a risk level and the higher the number the lower the risk.
Hello mate, I’m a spark I always fit SPD’s I single unit dwelling as long as customer is happy to do so. I have recently bought a mew build and the sparks have not put an SPD, I was not consulted by the site about if I wanted an SPD I believe the cost of my electrical equipment far outweighs that of an SPD unit for a Hager board. Am I right to push my argument that they should have installed one or am I in a catch 22 with a new build?
Examples in Annexe 443 of the BBB. But how are we expected to know distances of overhead and underground supply lines or cables? Could or should the DNOs just provide an Lp figure for each installation address? I've calculated that for urban Bristol Lp has to be < 1.7km for a CRL above 1000 and >1.7km for a CRL < 1000.
that's how I read it and would approach it.....for now anyway. Although I can't think of many installs out-with the examples in443.4 that would require the application of a risk assessment..@@hectorselectrics
I have to be very honest, BS7671 18th Edition changes are not very clear to me. For example on a domestic property, if a consumer unit is changed on, say a 1978 average 3 bedroom house, with a TT system already installed with no available TNS or TNCS. Does the customer now need to be offered a new 17th edition board full of 30mA RCBOs and a main 100A linked switch, with a 100mA RCD installed before this board, OR does the customer need to be offered a new 18th edition board with SPD and AFDD protection? I feel that if the LATTER is the case, then the customer will fall about laughing at the price to have an 18th board installed. Am I alone with my thinking? I would very much appreciate all your thoughts on the issue please.
Sparky ninja In a single dwelling that has failed the risk assessment do you believe it is up to the client if they consider their installation to not be worth the offset of fitting a spd or is it the job of the contractor to decided this fact and therefor have to fit a device out of the necessity to comply with bs7671? As there cannot be many situations where the installations value and all electronic devices connected will not be worth the 100 or so quid which it will cost to fit such a device? It’s a strange thing to interpret as most things with our industry is based on safety and as over voltage has no “direct” risk of harm it leaves you wondering well what’s the point!
Fantastic video very helpful. I am doing a job with 8 single sub boards supplied from a panel board. The premises is a mixture of accommodation and classrooms, would i be best of with SPDs locally at each board or one at the orgin of supply or both?
The 18th edition would only require the SPD at the origin as mandatory but it would suggest that beyond 10m in cable length you should consider additional protection. So if there is critical equipment fed from one of the sub boards then discuss this with the client and install the SPD if it's deemed worthwile.
Andrew Marcham. There is some confusion in the lighting industry regarding the fitting and of SPDs. As with this kind of confusion I bet a lot of ‘owners’ of road lighting equipment will fit them ‘just in case’. I didn’t even get a definite answer from the tutor on the 18th edition course I attended.
@@paulf1767 many local authorities and the highways agency are now specifying SPD's especially as they migrate over to LED's (these are especially sensitive to transients) typically they fit a larger device in the feeder pillar and then a smaller device in the individual cut out for the column. Some LED manufacturers are also adding in a little type 3 device in head as the column length can often be over the 10m length which an additional device should be considered.
Sean Passant thank you Sean, that does appear to be happening on some of the projects I work on but some are saying Street Lighting doesn’t meet the criteria, i.e loss of life, a public service; which I guess it could be called that by some, commercial activity etc. Hence the question at the time. When I’ve asked why some want it fitting after I’ve carried out the calculations I get the feeling there is a lack of understanding by some so the “let’s fit it” becomes the norm.
We have been asked to do a eicr to a school , about 14 ccu doted about , we have all previous certs ,but will we need to fit s.p.d everywhere,or is it a c3 ,a risk assessment will not work ,what do you think
No, SPD's pose no fire risk at all. They quench a transient in around 25 nano seconds so the chance of thermal rise is very limited. The testing standard laid out in IEC 61643 requires the device to be be able to withstand up to 20 surge events and they fail open so virtually no risk at all. They are installed in parallel so no load under normal circumstances either. In fact National Trust are currently upgrading many of their properties and they are specifying SPD's across the board. They actually reduce the risk of fire.
Is anyone aware of anyone ever needing one of these fitted domestically ? I'll be very surprised if anyone actually knows that they have had a problem and an SPD would of helped them !! I've never heard anyone say
Yeah. Bloke on electricians community uk on facebook. His sisters house had a surge that fried everything. Place was a mess. Black marks around all outlets, smoke detectors etc. Full rewire needed as a result and obviously almost all electrical equipment containing electronics etc replacing. Dno accepted responsibility.
I have 2 customers who have lost majority of electronic goods due to lightning, but, was it on the mains or the phone line?? No visible damage just duff electronics
@@ralphsterz2889 I have the 1st edition of this publication in paper (I reckon 1980) and they show different statistics and pictures of overvoltages and lightings issues... the link of the latest version is free and is here... Now they are focused in the International code... www.dehn.co.uk/en-gb/lightning-protection-guide
@@juanantoniopena828 I only had a quick look at that document admittedly, but couldn't see anything labelled specifically for linking fires/deaths etc to overvoltages or lightening strikes (direct or indirect). Besides, electrical suppliers are contracted to supply voltage at +10/-6% of the nominal voltage if I remember right, so shouldn't this requirement apply more to them since likely it is their pylons, power lines and sub stations that will more likely be receiving direct lightening strikes and causing spikes in voltage? I can see the argument for requiring them if your client is situated on an industrial estate where there are factories around you with heavy inductive loads and lots of switching etc that may affect the supply of other local installations. There was a house that I remember in the newspaper that got hit by lightening strike located somewhere by me, although it blew the house to pieces and overvoltage/surge protection in a fuse board would have done little to save it consider lightening strikes are somewhere in the region of 1 million volts. Maybe covering such domestic installations in some kind of huge Farraday cage would have been sufficient, but trying convincing a homeowner to have one of those wrapped around the outside of their property probably wouldn't go down to well. One thing I have noticed in general is higher voltage when testing on domestic installations in the region of 250 volts and I suspect this is due to an increasing number of local solar photovoltaic installations all feeding into the grid and pushing up the local supply voltage. I could be wrong on the cause however. In this instance voltage optimization would be more appropriate rather than surge protection. But then maybe both would apply since it can be really sunny one minute and really cloudy the next.
@@BurtMeister Regarding to the nominal voltage you are right but I am talking here only about over voltages that it is other business and the electric companies don't like to talk... At industrial states it is worse as you talked (motor drives, motor starters, power electronic...) but houses are affected too. You don't need millions voltages to damage the installation. If the insurances company receive an increase in reclamations in the UK due to overvoltages then it will be like in others countries. They will increase the insurance policy to the electricians and they will put a condition that you have to maintain a CPD in the house otherwise the insurance policy should be cancelled or you loose the Insurance coverage if an accident happens. Regarding the over voltages induced by photovoltaic installations. It is more likely having an over voltages produced by a cheap led lamp or other electronic bargain that you can buy in the market. A professional photovoltaic installation has an over voltage filter and protection at the output stage. A low quality photovoltaic installation is costly and can destroy the cables, devices, etc. If you explain to a customer that he can protect his installation and save thousands of pounds it is up to them to take this risk sometimes with the code that we have at the moment. We will see more code revisions.
Your video shoul start telling people that there is no need for SPS at urban areas where lightning protection rods are or should have been installed. "There is no good reason why lightning rods (and the associated assembly consisting of a connection to earth and a ground rod) are not routinely added to houses. ... However, most high buildings and other structures do havesome kind of lightning protection system incorporated into them" "Although lightning protection is not a legal requirement for all buildings and structures, the requirements of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (ref 7) will apply to most businesses" Most probably that little device won't work. As people try to buy the most cheapest one they can find. And not even asking for documents that proof they work. "Do Surge Protectors Work Against Lighting? The short answer is NO. At least not any surge protector that you can buy for the inside of your house. Even a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) with surge protection will not be able to handle a lighting strike that is close by.19 Sep 2012" For transient voltages, most probably you will be compensate for the energy supplier but insurance companies will require to their policy. And finishing where they more likely to be installed which is rural areas. Forget about the risk assessment which is useless without the power line distances.
Another example of new technology that isnt really definitive in its application of use... The electrical industry is riddled with ambiguity and indecision and interpretation which is different from one electrician to the other... Its like the industry builds into its regulations a faff to confuse and blind us with its ifs, buts, and maybes and if onlys..... Just tell us we must fit the stuff in all applications regardless ....end off !!! That way the system will accept it quickly and customers and clients wont get or have a choice..and it soon will become the accepted norm... I like the way we suppose to bring this to the clients attention and see what he thinks and if his equipment justifies the extra cost and bla bla bla..... your joking right ?... the customer doesnt know squat about anything.... thats why hes asked us to do his work rather then him going to B&Q and doing it himself.. He dont know his ass from a hole in the ground.... all this aggro for £60 worth of switch gear ffs.... your profit margin cant be that tight...we waste more then that dicking around with this scenario... Just fit the bloody things from the off.... This is going to be a repeat faff like rcd /rcbos... do we... dont we... Why do we insist upon making our lives more and more complicated trying to decide.. When new tech comes along like this dont umm and arrrgh..... fit it and be done with it....
Single Dwelling Unit definition
a single-family (home, house, or dwelling) means that the building is a structure maintained and used as a single dwelling unit. Jun 26 2019
A single family home not a single person dwelling.
which really covers most dwellings. If a client plays about the cost then simply don't install and not bother with the risk assessment?
Thanks once again Sparky...A little overview of an actual risk assessment, or your opinion of a satisfactory risk assessment, would help too.
Thanks Sparky for that explanation. Another great video which I really appreciate . I am currently looking into this for a customer who needs a board change and I am aware that the extra expense may mean I lose the job if I conclude he does and someone else quotes without the added cost of the SPD. I think that is going to be one of those eternal dilemmas until they make them compulsory . Can I also say that I was delighted to see your videos with Gaz at Treshsm . Thanks again for taking the time to do these videos . As I am relatively new to all of this , all your collective advice is so helpful. Cheers . Adrian .
Great video as usual Dave. Very clear of the regulations and requirements.
My take is if there is no harm with installing one and it's cheap compared to everything else, no reason not to include it at least one at the main incoming. This will give comfort to the tenants. Any power surge from lightning or whatever sources just once in a lifetime is not worth the risk to take for any tenant from saving the extra cost of a few dollars. Cost reduction can best be done on other less items
Hi Phillip, the type of SPD's being discussed here in the 18th edition are specifically type 2 SPD's and these are not lightning rated. You would need a type 1 device for this. It's important to ensure that the difference between the types of device are fully understood.
Thanks for another great video, I personally think it would be easier to just install the device. Therefore no comebacks. A video on selection & installation would be great. Most of the electricians, I have talked to are still in the dark about SPD’s, it seems to have been pushed in, without any thought to the installer. A practical training course would be a good idea.
Customers who have made a significant investment in SmartHome technology might consider whether an SPD would be worthwhile. Very useful video. Thanks
Thanks for posting another top video
Would be good to see an example of a risk assessment for a domestic property regarding spd's
Glenn Parr I was just going to ask then same question.
Thanks David your videos and courses are very helpful.
Turn to page 105 in the regs.
It's important to do the risk assessment but......as someone that has done quite a few I can advise that unless the property is fed underground and is in a fairly built up sub-urban or highly built up urban area then chances are you will need the SPD.
Thanks for the clips, really helpful
They just seem like a way to sell a MOV at a massivly inflated price but that might just be the yorkshire in me. I guess it could be useful if you have a large number of PSUs regularly dying but i would imagine most people spend less than the cost of an spd on anual psu replacement due to lack of consumer unit spd protection.
👍
We haven't used these devices domestically before because a, they weren't freely available b, the risk is extremely low.
You're probably more likely to win the lottery or get struck by lightning.
I've seen a tear down of these things and they are full of tightly packed cheap electronics.
I'm expecting a lot of fires safely contained in 17th edition consumer units.
If you say that risk is low... then you haven't seen the SPD issues ... in 30 years I saw a lot...and it is not a joke
SPD's have been widely available since the 90's in the UK. The 18th edition is specifically not aimed at lightning rated devices, it talks about transients "of non atmospheric origin" these are type 2 devices, typically in the UK these will be MOV based, if you have had poor experience in the past that is regrettable, maybe you could try www.dehn.co.uk we invented the worlds first SPD in the 50's and they are certainly not full of "tightly packed cheap electronics". SPD's do not pose a fire risk if you select a decent device and install it correctly.
Would appreciate some discussion of overhead supply scenarios with regard to which, IET Wiring Matters issue 71 says "any structure fed via an overhead supply line shall also require an SPD". In this scenario it appears the required equipment is larger and much more expensive, (which may well affect any risk/cost/benefit analysis by the user in a single dwelling unit situation). Although the IET article appears to suggest in this scenario SPDs are compulsory/"required" anyway. That said, they do not back this assertion up with any reference to the regs.
Correct Robin, structures fed via overhead lines must have a type 1 SPD, these are lightning arrest devices. They do tend to be slightly bulkier and slightly more expensive but they have to able to cope with up to 50kA of lightning energy so they are very robust and often manufactured in a slightly different way using different components.
What is the definition of a single unit dwelling though?
Great video David you cleared up that for me as a domestic Spark
The regulation does not read as if risk assesment is not a requirement with single domestic dwellings to me. It reads that if the cost and economic aspect points to fitting one then you should either risk assess obviously to see the need or fit one if choosing not to risk assess.
Regarding the code. There are enough experience in others codes about legal claims... after a legal customer claim... it is not difficult for a solicitor show that the spd risk assessment didn't comply with the over voltage conditions established in the code . Then the electrician's public liability insurance company will face the losses cost.
After that, we will have premiums in electricians' public liability insurance as happened in other countries with equivalent codes...
You can get a device suitable for a domestic application from a reputable OEM for less than £50. Is it worth messing about with risk assessments? Is it worth the liability you expose yourself to by not fitting. As an aside it’s hard to see how these devices provide much more than a false sense of security. If your incoming supply is suddenly at 50kV a domestic consumer unit doesn’t provide anywhere near the creepage/clearance distance required. You also got the issue of transients on other services such as phone lines. If your phone line is subject to a surge the over voltage will most likely make its way onto the socket ring powering it admittedly for a brief period but most likely long enough to destroy most devices connected to it.
Exactly what I was thinking.
it's just a big money spinner, I would estimate 30% of houses don't have RCD, surely that's more the priority.
ralphsterz these are for new installs so RCD/RCBO is a given.
The fact the Lpah, Lpch, Lpac and Lpcl are pretty much unknown to us - such that we are not able to do the CRL - means that basically they just want us to fit them. That's my take on it.
The reg says "The total length (Lpal+Lpcl+Lpah+Lpch) is limited to 1km. ........If the distribution network lengths are totally or partially unknown then Lpal shall be taken as equal to the remaining distance to reach a total length of 1km". So just put 1km in. Simples!
@@hectorselectrics Thanks Hector's. I can see that I need to go back to the drawing board on that. It's the paragraph about the "remaining distance" that's confusing me. I'll go with Lp as 1km for now ta.
It's totally counter-intuitive that the more the Calculated Risk level over 1000 - the less the need for and SPD. We're being asked to CALCULATE a risk level and the higher the number the lower the risk.
must be like horse odds then, 2-1 and 1000-1
Hello mate, I’m a spark I always fit SPD’s I single unit dwelling as long as customer is happy to do so. I have recently bought a mew build and the sparks have not put an SPD, I was not consulted by the site about if I wanted an SPD I believe the cost of my electrical equipment far outweighs that of an SPD unit for a Hager board. Am I right to push my argument that they should have installed one or am I in a catch 22 with a new build?
You can most definitely make a request that the install isn't suitable. It may fall on deaf ears though if it is already certified.
Examples in Annexe 443 of the BBB. But how are we expected to know distances of overhead and underground supply lines or cables? Could or should the DNOs just provide an Lp figure for each installation address? I've calculated that for urban Bristol Lp has to be < 1.7km for a CRL above 1000 and >1.7km for a CRL < 1000.
Regs say if you know only part of the Lp calculation you must use 1km. I'm just going to make Lp 1km in all my risk assessments.
that's how I read it and would approach it.....for now anyway. Although I can't think of many installs out-with the examples in443.4 that would require the application of a risk assessment..@@hectorselectrics
Very helpful thank you!!
what would you code a commercial building no spd on an eicr. EG only necessary if remedial work is done or C2 needs one.
I have to be very honest, BS7671 18th Edition changes are not very clear to me. For example on a domestic property, if a consumer unit is changed on, say a 1978 average 3 bedroom house, with a TT system already installed with no available TNS or TNCS. Does the customer now need to be offered a new 17th edition board full of 30mA RCBOs and a main 100A linked switch, with a 100mA RCD installed before this board, OR does the customer need to be offered a new 18th edition board with SPD and AFDD protection? I feel that if the LATTER is the case, then the customer will fall about laughing at the price to have an 18th board installed. Am I alone with my thinking? I would very much appreciate all your thoughts on the issue please.
Sparky ninja
In a single dwelling that has failed the risk assessment do you believe it is up to the client if they consider their installation to not be worth the offset of fitting a spd or is it the job of the contractor to decided this fact and therefor have to fit a device out of the necessity to comply with bs7671? As there cannot be many situations where the installations value and all electronic devices connected will not be worth the 100 or so quid which it will cost to fit such a device? It’s a strange thing to interpret as most things with our industry is based on safety and as over voltage has no “direct” risk of harm it leaves you wondering well what’s the point!
What do you class as a single unit dwelling . I.e. a stand alone building on its own .. or a house in a row of houses . Or both
Fantastic video very helpful. I am doing a job with 8 single sub boards supplied from a panel board. The premises is a mixture of accommodation and classrooms, would i be best of with SPDs locally at each board or one at the orgin of supply or both?
The 18th edition would only require the SPD at the origin as mandatory but it would suggest that beyond 10m in cable length you should consider additional protection. So if there is critical equipment fed from one of the sub boards then discuss this with the client and install the SPD if it's deemed worthwile.
Dear Sparky could you do video on SPD connections? Many thx.
I assume "single unit dwelling" is there to rule out homes of multiple occupancy... So these will need spd's
Hi SparkyNinja
Would you consider street lighting as a public service. If so this could be a huge additional cost for each one.
Andrew Marcham. There is some confusion in the lighting industry regarding the fitting and of SPDs. As with this kind of confusion I bet a lot of ‘owners’ of road lighting equipment will fit them ‘just in case’. I didn’t even get a definite answer from the tutor on the 18th edition course I attended.
@@paulf1767 many local authorities and the highways agency are now specifying SPD's especially as they migrate over to LED's (these are especially sensitive to transients) typically they fit a larger device in the feeder pillar and then a smaller device in the individual cut out for the column. Some LED manufacturers are also adding in a little type 3 device in head as the column length can often be over the 10m length which an additional device should be considered.
Sean Passant thank you Sean, that does appear to be happening on some of the projects I work on but some are saying Street Lighting doesn’t meet the criteria, i.e loss of life, a public service; which I guess it could be called that by some, commercial activity etc. Hence the question at the time. When I’ve asked why some want it fitting after I’ve carried out the calculations I get the feeling there is a lack of understanding by some so the “let’s fit it” becomes the norm.
Lightning strikes? Cable jointers mistakes where goes this end?
We have been asked to do a eicr to a school , about 14 ccu doted about , we have all previous certs ,but will we need to fit s.p.d everywhere,or is it a c3 ,a risk assessment will not work ,what do you think
so anything grade 2 listed! But would their be more chance of the SPD itself catching fire ?
No, SPD's pose no fire risk at all. They quench a transient in around 25 nano seconds so the chance of thermal rise is very limited. The testing standard laid out in IEC 61643 requires the device to be be able to withstand up to 20 surge events and they fail open so virtually no risk at all. They are installed in parallel so no load under normal circumstances either. In fact National Trust are currently upgrading many of their properties and they are specifying SPD's across the board. They actually reduce the risk of fire.
does the rule apply to all work or just new boards, rewires or new installs (new builds) only?
Is anyone aware of anyone ever needing one of these fitted domestically ? I'll be very surprised if anyone actually knows that they have had a problem and an SPD would of helped them !! I've never heard anyone say
Yeah. Bloke on electricians community uk on facebook. His sisters house had a surge that fried everything. Place was a mess. Black marks around all outlets, smoke detectors etc. Full rewire needed as a result and obviously almost all electrical equipment containing electronics etc replacing. Dno accepted responsibility.
daniel Casey well that’s one example I suppose
I have 2 customers who have lost majority of electronic goods due to lightning, but, was it on the mains or the phone line?? No visible damage just duff electronics
@@MikeB470 The next question would be if it had a SPD fitted would it have helped, I think not,
Where is the evidence that these SPDs are *needed* virtually everywhere? Have there been lots of deaths etc
Yes, there are evidences ... from 1950...fires, deaths, companies break downs...multimillion losses
@@juanantoniopena828 okay can you reference these sources
@@ralphsterz2889 I have the 1st edition of this publication in paper (I reckon 1980) and they show different statistics and pictures of overvoltages and lightings issues... the link of the latest version is free and is here... Now they are focused in the International code... www.dehn.co.uk/en-gb/lightning-protection-guide
@@juanantoniopena828 I only had a quick look at that document admittedly, but couldn't see anything labelled specifically for linking fires/deaths etc to overvoltages or lightening strikes (direct or indirect).
Besides, electrical suppliers are contracted to supply voltage at +10/-6% of the nominal voltage if I remember right, so shouldn't this requirement apply more to them since likely it is their pylons, power lines and sub stations that will more likely be receiving direct lightening strikes and causing spikes in voltage? I can see the argument for requiring them if your client is situated on an industrial estate where there are factories around you with heavy inductive loads and lots of switching etc that may affect the supply of other local installations.
There was a house that I remember in the newspaper that got hit by lightening strike located somewhere by me, although it blew the house to pieces and overvoltage/surge protection in a fuse board would have done little to save it consider lightening strikes are somewhere in the region of 1 million volts. Maybe covering such domestic installations in some kind of huge Farraday cage would have been sufficient, but trying convincing a homeowner to have one of those wrapped around the outside of their property probably wouldn't go down to well.
One thing I have noticed in general is higher voltage when testing on domestic installations in the region of 250 volts and I suspect this is due to an increasing number of local solar photovoltaic installations all feeding into the grid and pushing up the local supply voltage. I could be wrong on the cause however. In this instance voltage optimization would be more appropriate rather than surge protection. But then maybe both would apply since it can be really sunny one minute and really cloudy the next.
@@BurtMeister Regarding to the nominal voltage you are right but I am talking here only about over voltages that it is other business and the electric companies don't like to talk...
At industrial states it is worse as you talked (motor drives, motor starters, power electronic...) but houses are affected too. You don't need millions voltages to damage the installation.
If the insurances company receive an increase in reclamations in the UK due to overvoltages then it will be like in others countries. They will increase the insurance policy to the electricians and they will put a condition that you have to maintain a CPD in the house otherwise the insurance policy should be cancelled or you loose the Insurance coverage if an accident happens.
Regarding the over voltages induced by photovoltaic installations.
It is more likely having an over voltages produced by a cheap led lamp or other electronic bargain that you can buy in the market.
A professional photovoltaic installation has an over voltage filter and protection at the output stage. A low quality photovoltaic installation is costly and can destroy the cables, devices, etc.
If you explain to a customer that he can protect his installation and save thousands of pounds it is up to them to take this risk sometimes with the code that we have at the moment. We will see more code revisions.
Ninja has striked again!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Your video shoul start telling people that there is no need for SPS at urban areas where lightning protection rods are or should have been installed.
"There is no good reason why lightning rods (and the associated assembly consisting of a connection to earth and a ground rod) are not routinely added to houses. ... However, most high buildings and other structures do havesome kind of lightning protection system incorporated into them"
"Although lightning protection is not a legal requirement for all buildings and structures, the requirements of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (ref 7) will apply to most businesses"
Most probably that little device won't work. As people try to buy the most cheapest one they can find. And not even asking for documents that proof they work.
"Do Surge Protectors Work Against Lighting? The short answer is NO. At least not any surge protector that you can buy for the inside of your house. Even a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) with surge protection will not be able to handle a lighting strike that is close by.19 Sep 2012"
For transient voltages, most probably you will be compensate for the energy supplier but insurance companies will require to their policy.
And finishing where they more likely to be installed which is rural areas.
Forget about the risk assessment which is useless without the power line distances.
Another example of new technology that isnt really definitive in its application of use...
The electrical industry is riddled with ambiguity and indecision and interpretation which is different from one electrician to the other...
Its like the industry builds into its regulations a faff to confuse and blind us with its ifs, buts, and maybes and if onlys.....
Just tell us we must fit the stuff in all applications regardless ....end off !!! That way the system will accept it quickly and customers and clients wont get or have a choice..and it soon will become the accepted norm...
I like the way we suppose to bring this to the clients attention and see what he thinks and if his equipment justifies the extra cost and bla bla bla..... your joking right ?... the customer doesnt know squat about anything.... thats why hes asked us to do his work rather then him going to B&Q and doing it himself..
He dont know his ass from a hole in the ground.... all this aggro for £60 worth of switch gear ffs.... your profit margin cant be that tight...we waste more then that dicking around with this scenario...
Just fit the bloody things from the off....
This is going to be a repeat faff like rcd /rcbos... do we... dont we...
Why do we insist upon making our lives more and more complicated trying to decide..
When new tech comes along like this dont umm and arrrgh..... fit it and be done with it....
Don't they cost a fortune to run?
They're not a "load" they're purely across Line and neutral and diverts any surges to earth
This is the oldest company specialist in SPD...They are studying the over voltage issues and publishing books since 1970
Why is so cheap?
Are this company selling a SPD tester?
Is there a proof that they work?
Thanks